Unlock the secrets to a thriving relationship with our special guest, Kristal DeSantis, a marriage and family therapist with a rich multicultural background. Growing up in an Asian multiracial, bicultural family, Kristal brings a unique perspective on what it takes for relationships to flourish. She shares her personal journey and professional insights, shedding light on misconceptions about long-term relationships and offering strategies to maintain happiness and connection over the years.
Discover the STRONG framework, a powerful tool for building and sustaining vibrant relationships. We break down this acronym into essential survival strategies: Safety, Trust, and Respect, coupled with thriving strategies: Openness, Nurturing, and Generosity. Through personal stories and expert advice, we delve into the importance of personal growth and mutual respect in partnerships. Learn how men can become more emotionally attuned and proactive, fostering a deeper connection with their partners.
Kristal also provides practical tools for enhancing communication and navigating cultural dynamics within relationships. From the "four positions of conversation" to the "heartbeat exercise," these strategies are designed to help couples communicate more effectively and reconnect emotionally. We discuss the significance of creating a safe space for open dialogue and the nuances of cultural sensitivities in therapy. Don't miss Kristal's valuable advice on maintaining a fulfilling sexual connection and her tips for real-life applications.
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital.
Sign Up for our Newsletter and get our FREE E-Book where you'll learn everything you need to know about creating financial freedom through multifamily syndication.
Introducing the 60 Day Deal Finder! Visit:www.MartinREIMastery.com Use the Coupon Code: WEALTHYAFfor 20% off!
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital. Build Generational Wealth As A Passive Investor In Multifamily Real Estate Syndication! Visit www.premierridgecapital.com to find out more.
Unlock the secrets to a thriving relationship with our special guest, Kristal DeSantis, a marriage and family therapist with a rich multicultural background. Growing up in an Asian multiracial, bicultural family, Kristal brings a unique perspective on what it takes for relationships to flourish. She shares her personal journey and professional insights, shedding light on misconceptions about long-term relationships and offering strategies to maintain happiness and connection over the years.
Discover the STRONG framework, a powerful tool for building and sustaining vibrant relationships. We break down this acronym into essential survival strategies: Safety, Trust, and Respect, coupled with thriving strategies: Openness, Nurturing, and Generosity. Through personal stories and expert advice, we delve into the importance of personal growth and mutual respect in partnerships. Learn how men can become more emotionally attuned and proactive, fostering a deeper connection with their partners.
Kristal also provides practical tools for enhancing communication and navigating cultural dynamics within relationships. From the "four positions of conversation" to the "heartbeat exercise," these strategies are designed to help couples communicate more effectively and reconnect emotionally. We discuss the significance of creating a safe space for open dialogue and the nuances of cultural sensitivities in therapy. Don't miss Kristal's valuable advice on maintaining a fulfilling sexual connection and her tips for real-life applications.
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital.
Sign Up for our Newsletter and get our FREE E-Book where you'll learn everything you need to know about creating financial freedom through multifamily syndication.
Introducing the 60 Day Deal Finder! Visit:www.MartinREIMastery.com Use the Coupon Code: WEALTHYAFfor 20% off!
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital. Build Generational Wealth As A Passive Investor In Multifamily Real Estate Syndication! Visit www.premierridgecapital.com to find out more.
This is Wealthy AF, your ultimate guide to understand what it truly means to be Wealthy AF. And today's guest is Crystal DeSantis and that's my Spanish accent that keeps coming up. Desantis, and born into a multiracial, bicultural family in Asia, she developed an insatiable curiosity about customs and cultures of relationships as she traversed between different societies. Everywhere she went, she observed and questioned how people fell in love, stayed in love and sought hints as to what made healthy relationships thrive. This, coupled with her own journey to love she met her husband, eventually led her into the field of marriage and family therapy and to the pursuit of her master's degree and licensure as a marriage and family therapist. Crystal, welcome, my dear.
Speaker 2:
Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:
I'm so glad that you're here. This is a great topic we're going to be talking about today. Do you need to go to couples therapy Now? So people may be thinking well, podcast is Wealthy AF. What are you talking about couples? We talk about masculinity politics here. We talk about all kinds of things. Well, wealth is wealthy AF. What are you talking about Couples? We talk about masculinity politics here. We talk about all kinds of things. Well, wealth is not just about money. It's about relationships, health, spirituality, wealth. It encompasses a full spectrum of things. I believe that true wealth, human beings are truly at their best when they're fully connected with another human being.
Speaker 1:
As my listeners know, I've been married for 22 years. They weren't my wife for 28 years yeah, 28 years. So I know the importance of this. So let's get right into it. So tell us your story. I mean biracial, multicultural family, asia and what. So you were born? What was the other side? You're a very beautiful woman, so I'm trying to figure out where was the other side? You're a very beautiful woman, so I'm trying to figure out. Was it? Where's the other, the other side?
Speaker 2:
I see the asian, but I'm trying to figure out the other side so the other side is italian, irish italian irish my dad is american from boston and so he was the italian, irish and my mom is asian, um, she's Chinese ethnically. They lived in Japan, so I was raised in Japan, so that's where multicultural, multiracial, all living in the same house.
Speaker 1:
I can imagine, man, it must be fun to be your Thanksgiving, for sure.
Speaker 2:
We have a lot of fruit cultures. But yeah, so I you know, but part of that is I ended up kind of being what's called a third culture kid. You know I was never fully Asian, right, so mixed race, never quite fully Asian. Also, you know, I was raised speaking English and going to an American school, but then when I would come visit America I never felt fully American either. So I was kind of between cultures and it really made me an observer of the way people interact, not just in romantic relationships and friendships, and when I moved to the US to go to college again, I was just trying to understand how relationships developed, whether it was friendships, work, colleagues or romantic relationships. And yeah, so I was just trying to figure it out. Being between cultures, I think it makes you very aware of things that maybe people that are in the culture are not exactly aware of.
Speaker 1:
Got it, Got it. So what led you into the field of going into this pursuit of therapy marriage counseling?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, honestly, it was because I met my husband on a dating app and I realized that, oh gosh, I really like this guy, but I don't know how to do healthy relationships. My parents they were very good parents to me, but they did not have the best relationship with each other, so I didn't really learn how people sustained a long-term romantic relationship in a healthy way. I knew a lot of people that had been married for many years, but you know that didn't really tell me about what they did to be successful in actually having a happy, healthy long-term marriage, it's just, you know, they have kids together, they have a house together.
Speaker 2:
They just didn't get divorced. And you know, now it's 40 years later and I saw a lot of unhappy older couples when I was growing up, you know, or people, friends, parents who sure they were in a long-term marriage, but it didn't feel like the kind of relationship that I necessarily wanted. I went to therapy and my therapist was a marriage and family therapist, and so then I realized, oh, I can learn this, these are skills, I can read about it, I can learn about it. And then eventually, you know, I wanted to share what I've learned with others, so I became a marriage and family therapist in 2014. So I've been doing this for 10 years, and last year I wrote my book. And you know, I just want to share what I've learned with other people because it's made a huge difference in my life. I've been with my husband for 14 years as well and, yeah, Awesome.
Speaker 1:
Let me ask you this. You mentioned some things. There's a lot to unpack there. You said there were people that were married for 40 years. Pack there. You said there were people that were married for 40 years. They just you've met people that were older, not happy, right, but they just never got divorced. They just decided to sleep together. Um, and then you said you were looking for strategies and I'm paraphrasing, that's not the words you use, but you were kind of looking for strategies so how to stay in a relationship that's sustainable and you're fulfilled and happy. Again, paraphrasing long-term. What did you learn about that? What are those things that hold the marriage sustainable and happy in the long run?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so I mean it really is. It starts with setting up a really solid foundation Because, as you said, you know, with this podcast, one of the things, one of the pieces of research I found when I was writing my book, is the Harvard study about the quality of your relationships determines the quality of your life. Amen. The better you are at maintaining and protecting and building your relationships whether that's with your partner, you know, having a support system that you can rely on to support you emotionally when things get tough.
Speaker 2:
Be as entrepreneur, you know being in business, you need somebody who has your back. It's a huge difference for your mental health, emotional well-being, for your resilience, to have that partner at home who believes in you, who supports you, who is able to emotionally hold you up when you're not feeling you're blessed. And then also in business relationships, being able to have a successful negotiation, successful collaboration. These are all relationship, communication, conflict skills, right, and so I guess it really just made me so. What I did is so I wrote my book and I created my practice called Strong.
Speaker 1:
The name of the book is Strong.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's Strong a Relationship Field Guide for the Modern man, because I really wanted to focus on helping men um let's talk about that, baby. Yes, but you know it, it really is a strength-based approach, right? So what I learned is setting up a strong foundation really then gives you the skills for long-term success. You know no matter where you end up in life 10 years down the line, 12 years, 15, you know 40 years. You got to start with a strong foundation.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so what? What strategies would you say are necessary, like, what are some of the things? Give us some some meat and potatoes, right. What would some of those things be that keep a relationship strong, healthy, vibrant over the long haul?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so strong. I break it down as an acronym. So the first three are essential to any relationship success Safety, trust and respect. If you don't have those three, the relationship will just not survive. It's going to be constant conflict. It's going to be very toxic. If you don't feel safe with your partner, you don't trust them or you don't respect them.
Speaker 2:
You have a non-starter right. So that's what I call kind of the relationship survival strategies, the STR, and then, once you get that stabilized, coming into the long-term success. The thriving part of the relationship is ONG, openness, nurturing and generosity, and these are the things to continue to cultivate so that you don't end up getting stagnant, so you don't end up becoming roommates, you don't end up just relying on. Well, we trust each other, we feel safe with each other, we respect each other. It's what else are you doing to keep vibrancy in the relationship, to keep passion alive, to keep being generous and doing those little things for each other that make you feel you know just that magic of being in love, which is you know so many people and this is one of the things I discovered as I was becoming a marriage therapy therapist and doing this research is love is wonderful, but it's not enough to make a long-term relationship work. And love is not magic. A lot of it is really that intentional nurturing, intentional choices to put the relationship's needs before your, your own.
Speaker 1:
And that's really what love in action tell us what, what that looks like, right? So how do you? How does for a man, because you know, look, I I remember there was. I'll share a quick story with you and my listeners. Right, but I had a. I had a woman therapist years ago too, so I was in my pool. One day my wife comes over to me and she's like I'm not happy, right, and I'm like why is that?
Speaker 1:
right. You know, a lot of times, nina, you are a therapist, so you know we are clueless. Men like christy, younger men we're clueless to what's happening in the, in the marriage and emotionally with women. We don't see shit, shit Like it's just like. We're just blind sometimes. And that's what I was.
Speaker 1:
She goes I'm not happy. And I was like why? And she said everything you, it's not that you're doing something wrong, but it's what you're not doing. She was like you agree to everything I want to do. I feel like you don't have your own ideas, you don't have your own backbone. Want to do. You know, I feel like you don't have your own ideas, you don't have your own backbone, you don't have your own. If I say I want chinese food, you say even if you want thai, you say sure. If I say I want to stay home and you want to go out, you say sure, whatever, I want to do it. She was like I don't want to be in a relationship like that, I'm not happy. And that hit me like a ton of bricks because I thought the old mantra of happy wife, happy life nonsense, that's nonsense, total nonsense. Learn that the hard way, right and um. So I was like okay, so we decided to go to therapy.
Speaker 1:
I started going to therapy. She went for the first session and then she didn't go back. She was like I'm not going back, you're the one that needs help, not me. So I kept going, right, because at this point I had already read a lot of books. I'm a reader, I'm into personal development, I'm an entrepreneur, so I'm into you know, growth. I had a growth mindset for a long time, but this area I was really missing and I'm still growing in that area. So I kept going to this therapist, right?
Speaker 1:
She tells me one day I'm sitting there with the therapist and the therapist asked me a question and she goes hey, why should your wife respect you or love you, or something like that? And I remember my answer. My answer was like what do you mean? Why don't you see I provide how she lives in this great big house, she has this nice car, she has this, these, all these things.
Speaker 1:
And the therapist looked at me and she said there's that nine-year-old boy coming out right there. She was like isn't that what a man is supposed to do? Does a man need to say what he's doing, um, when he's providing for his wife and his children. Isn't that what a man does? And boy did I get pissed. I was so pissed I left that place. I was like I'm paying this lady whatever. I'm paying $150, $200 an hour for her to tell me that. But something in my mind said to me go back, there might be some truth there. And that was the moment for me where I realized Crystal for me that I became a man. It was in that couch that I was like holy crap, it hit me, I'm missing it. It was a woman that really sparked that for me.
Speaker 2:
I love hearing that.
Speaker 1:
Right, love that. So what do you find? I wanted to share that. That because, again, a lot of us men are emotional like we don't we miss it. So what would you say that a man can do to start building that muscle, you know?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely, and this is where I'm glad you thank you for sharing that story, because that's so beautiful, that's so you know I like, like that. That's not the therapist, because ultimately, a therapist is there to empower you to say wait a minute, are you really living your full, best life? Are you really inhabiting your full power? Do you really show it up in your integrity and being the kind of person that you wanna be? If not, here are some skills, here are some tools, here's some support. And so that's really why and this is why I named my book Strong is because so with safety, for instance with men, a lot of men have been taught right that your goal in the relationship or in life is to be a protector and a provider. Right, you got to keep.
Speaker 1:
That's important for us. That's important for us.
Speaker 2:
And so one of the things I wanted to do was continue to honor that, but just update it for the modern man, right? So what does it mean to be a protector in the relationship now? What does it mean to be a provider? Is it just about a paycheck? Or can you provide emotional connection? Can you provide emotional stability, Can you provide emotional support? And then, when it comes to protection, can you protect the relationship from you know, maybe your own worst instincts, right, your own things that maybe the relationship needs some protection from? So, with safety, that first S of the strong model, I break it down into four skills. Number one, the skill of self-awareness. Right, Like your wife said to you, like, do you even know what you want? Like of self-awareness, right, Like your wife said to you, like, do you even know what you want? Like who even? Are you right? She didn't want? It sounds like your wife didn't want just a yes man.
Speaker 1:
She wanted a man, she wanted a partner, she wanted someone that had their own thoughts, and an individual.
Speaker 2:
Exactly. And so that's the first S of safety, is self-awareness. The second is stability, right, which is kind of basic life skills. You know, maybe it's a trope, but I've seen a lot in couples therapy of, you know, women feeling like they don't have partners simply because their partners, their men, don't have the basic life skills that they were taught, like you know, how to run the dishwasher, how to change the diapers, how to, you know, make a meal for the kids, the kids, and it just leads to a lack of respect, right, it's like if your partner doesn't have the same basic life skills that you do, it's going to be tough to run a household together, right. And then the last two S's, so the four S's of safety self-awareness, stability, self-expression, so being able to talk about your feelings, being able to name, you know, like, if your wife's like, hey, how are you today? And you're like good, and then the next day she's like, hey, what's going on today? Not so good, you know your conversations can always stay at a really surface level. So self-expression, which is, again, skills, communication skills, learning language, to talk about emotions.
Speaker 2:
And then self-regulation, one of the things I've seen especially working with.
Speaker 2:
I work with a lot of first responders, a lot of veterans is being able to regulate your body when you're upset is an essential skill, and especially in business too, right? So if you're doing negotiations, being able to notice what's happening in your body so you can modulate and actually elite athletes in the military they teach this a lot with Navy SEALs like box breathing, when you're in a stressful situation, how do you calm your body so you don't escalate the situation? And often what I saw when it came to couples in conflict is, you know, when a man started getting angry, his partner started getting scared, right? And so if your partner is scared of you, even if you've never done anything physical, having that kind of angry energy is a threatening energy, and so being able to kind of modulate, like when you're in conflict, how do you calm your body? So, either taking a time out doing some breathing exercises, learning to step away so that you can actually have the conversations that need to happen, but that they are productive and not just lead to another breakup.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, but what strategies can you give a man? I understand that, I get that it's extremely important. Safety is important on both sides, right? That, like I get that it's extremely important. Safety is important on both sides, right, for a man needs to feel safe to be able to come with his whatever thoughts or feelings or situation, because we're out there in the world and we're fighting the world, that we're trying to fix things.
Speaker 1:
That's how we're wired we're. We want to come home and we want to fix you too. You just tell us I have this thing, my pimple in my head. Are you like, oh god, let me go get you this, right? We want, but sometimes women just want to be heard, right, yeah, but how do we as men, what kind of strategies can we as men create?
Speaker 1:
And I mean, I can share some of the things if you like, but I like to hear from you as men that we can create to create a safe environment for our spouses, because sometimes we don't know how to do that, and men we don't. Oftentimes we don't know, because of our masculine energy, how it comes across to the family when we're just expressing ourselves, or maybe we just are not expressing ourselves properly and we're just maybe talking a little bit too loud and our body language is a little bit too. We don't mean harm, we're just kind of expressing ourselves. What kind of strategies would you say I know you mentioned box breathing, and how do you become self-aware on those things to navigate that?
Speaker 2:
Well, honestly, that's where maybe couple therapy or individual therapy comes in. You know, having somebody who is dedicated to helping you get to know yourself better, because one of the things is learning your window of tolerance right, we all have a window of tolerance for distress and when you get to know yours, that's where also you can be a leader in these difficult conversations in your relationship, and I think that's one also you can be a leader in these difficult conversations in your relationship, and I think that's one of the things I noticed, especially in couples where a woman is gets frustrated when she's like I always have to be the one to start a difficult conversation, right, and so, being being somebody, being a man in a relationship who could say hey, I want to hear about your experience in this relationship, what am I doing in the partner that is working for you? What am I doing that's not working for you? And really honestly, getting that feedback. But it's very vulnerable, right, because you can get really defensive.
Speaker 1:
And that's a tough one, I'll tell you. That was a hard one for me. That was a hard one for me because that was when my therapist told me she for me. That was a hard word for me because that was when my therapist told me she said you go to your wife and you ask her. And I was like holy shit, I got to hear something. You got to hear it. Right, but that's part of creating that safety. It's creating that safe space. And now I've built the muscle where I've tell her not, I used to be scared to go and ask Like it was a challenge for me, it was.
Speaker 1:
My therapist would be like okay, did you ask? This week I was like no, because I was afraid of what I was going to hear. I was afraid of the feeling right, I was going to get this feeling of like I can't wish because she's going to start pointing fingers. But this is why she didn't talk and this is why she held it for so long, right. And now it's regular Like hey, babe, how, how we doing? You know, am I dropping the ball anywhere? Um, where are things? And now it's like just bring it to me. Like, just give it to me, don't? You don't got to worry about you, don't got to worry about me and ask you now, just give it to me. I don't want to, I don't want to sugarcoat it, just straight. Just shoot it straight with me and tell me where it is, where you're at, and let's just unpack it Right. I've created that space for her where it's just like just you know, just just give it to me yeah, and and again.
Speaker 2:
That started with you. It sounds like doing your own work to be in a space where you could be open to hearing that, so you could provide her with that safety of like hey, I want to know how to love you better. I want to make your experience in this relationship better. Help me do that for you.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, what I will tell you that is that at the beginning it was tough because I didn't have good communication skills. So that comes with communication skills. And what I will tell the men listening today is if you go and you do this strategy that Dr Crystal here is sharing with you, if you go and you do this strategy and it's going to hurt, right, but what I will tell you is that it hurts because you can't articulate what the meaning? Because we're meaning making machines. As human beings, we make meaning. That's not there. So I believe that intentions matter. I'm a big believer intentions matter. So oftentimes my wife and I would have we would have disagreements. We still do where, hey, you did this and I'm like okay, babe, thank you for sharing it. But let's talk, let's unpack this, let's unpack this, you know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, yeah. And this is again where. So there are specific strategies that I use often in my work, and one of them is what I put in my book is the four positions of conversation. So it starts with listening, joining, fixing and debating. And what I've noticed is that men are generally socialized to fix and debate, yeah, and women are socialized to listen and join.
Speaker 2:
And so just you, you know, I tell my clients, I said, just take a picture of this, or so the pop, you put it on your fridge. Um, because often, if you can at least both be in the same position at the same time, right. So if your wife is like, hey, I'm trying to vent, and you immediately jump to, oh, come on, it wasn't that bad, you've lost her. Or if you're like, well, here, what you should do is, again you've lost her. Or if you're like, well, here, what you should do is, again, you've lost her because she's in position one, you're in position three. So, you know, I always say, like, let's break it down into strategy. Ask her where do you want me to be? You want me to be at position one, you want me to be at position three, and that also it's a collaborative thing.
Speaker 2:
It's not trying to beat her mind, it's just put me where you want me to play. What position do you want me to play? Right? So that's one strategy that's very effective at communication, and the other one is I encourage people if they're like I don't even know where to start, like, how do I check in with my partner? What I call it is my little heartbeat exercise. So, if your emotional connection is flatlined, start with a little heartbeat.
Speaker 2:
It's ask your partner about something that made them proud, something that caused them pain, and then something that gave them pleasure, and what your role is is validate them in their pride, right? So, hey, babe, good job, I'm super proud of you. You're amazing. I'm proud to be your partner. All the validation, right, give them props and then, with the pain, being able to also, like you said, exercise that muscle that you could hear what gave your partner pain, without making it about you, without going into a shame spiral or getting defensive, being able to listen and hold that pain. And so, again, I encourage couples to practice it every day, because the pain might be today, it might be a headache, right? All your wife's like, oh, I've had a headache all day, and then you just provide care right. What can I do? I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 1:
Can I get you something? Can I get you an ass to hand? Do you need something?
Speaker 2:
Exactly, and the same, then, is going to be. It's going to be the same skill. If she comes to you with emotional pain, like, hey, you know, earlier today you texted me back and you never texted me back and it hurt my feelings, you know, again it's the same thing. I'm so sorry to hear that. What can I do to fix it? Is there anything that you need? You know, can I give you a hug? Can I give you a kiss? Should we go for a walk? So yeah, let's sit on the patio and have a little wine. You know, it's the same skill of providing care and empathy.
Speaker 2:
And then the pleasure thing again. You know, having a romantic relationship, making sure that you stay connected in the space of desire, sharing pleasure with each other, especially when life happens, you've got kids. You end up. What I noticed is a lot of couples just end up talking about logistics. Hey, do you take out the trash here? Do you remember to take the kid to the thing? And you forget to connect around things that give you pleasure. So that's the last little. You know.
Speaker 2:
Beat of the heartbeat is that connector of being able to check in with your partner. Hey, did anything give you pleasure today? And if not, let's do something pleasurable together, and it might be as simple as you know. Let's watch a show that we enjoy, let's cuddle in bed, let me rub your head Whenever it is that and brings together in that pleasure space, and it doesn't always have to be sexual, but something pleasurable that you know again reminds your bodies that you pleasure each other and that you share that connection. That's not just oh yeah, we're roommates, I have kids, I'm in business, I'm in life right.
Speaker 1:
Got it. That makes a lot of sense. Can you, from your perspective, do you think that individual therapy can be just as beneficial for a couple's overall relationship? Health?
Speaker 2:
I think it could be very, very effective in helping people figure out who they want to be in their relationship, Because I noticed a lot of people just end up in relationships without, like you said, that kind of intentionality of you know what am I doing here, what role am I playing and how invested am I. And I think individual therapy can really help to illuminate some of that. And also, you know, a lot of us grew up in homes or had previous relationships that maybe caused us pain, trauma, attachment, injuries, and so individual therapy can also help you understand how that is impacting. You know your patterns in your relationship today.
Speaker 1:
Got it. Does couples therapy reinforce gender roles? Where do you stand on that perspective?
Speaker 2:
I hope so. You know, because, again, what my perspective in working with any couple is, you know your, your relationship is unique to you, like I think everybody deserves a bespoke relationship. Right, it's custom made to you. You don't get a one size fits all. So I would say, if you go to a therapist that tries to say, oh, one size fits all, these are the rules for men, but these are the rules for women. You know, maybe it won't really meet your needs. One size fits all. These are the rules for men and these are the rules for women. You know, maybe it won't really meet your needs. So you know I'm an advocate for your relationship has to be bespoke to meet your specific custom, unique needs. And of course, I think everybody deserves that especially. You know, like, look at your audience like the elite. You know like, come on, you deserve the best and the best can only be yours.
Speaker 1:
Uh, you don't get one off the rack, that's right. That's right. Is couples therapy culturally sensitive? How do you navigate that, right? So, as a latino man, right, that's a big like, we're very macho, machismo, right, and it's like a man is you know this and that? Um, how do you navigate that? As a as a first of all, you're biracial, biracial. So you, you're dealing, I would imagine you must. Your house must have been really interesting. Um, you have different cultural values, right? How do you, as a therapist, manage that where you have maybe a biracial couple and you got one really macho guy, right, and then a woman's like, hey, we gotta let go of that shit and we gotta go and we gotta, we gotta work on this thing, right, and so how do you, as a therapist, navigate those cultural? And do they still exist? I would suppose they still do absolutely.
Speaker 2:
They still exist absolutely. And you know, it is kind of a balance between, um, you know what you were taught versus what you actually believe, and I think that's part of kind of the parsing out right is a lot of people end up, especially, like you said, if you grew up in a culture that had very strict rules for how a man or a woman should be. Often what I noticed in doing couples therapy is people are just playing out the scripts that they were given. And when you, when I actually asked that, like is that really what you believe? It kind of is that light bulb moment of like, oh, actually, you know, kind of like your therapist did for you, it's like wait a minute, is that really what you believe or is that what you were taught?
Speaker 2:
And just having that like, oh, I actually have choice, I could choose to, you know, express this, you know, maybe this masculinity in a slightly different way. That is more me and not so much what I was supposed to be, which didn't you know. Yeah, so I think that's the cultural piece and, honestly, working with multiracial couples, they do have to. In some ways, they have a leg up, because I talk about it in my book, too, that when couples assume that they are similar in culture, often they set themselves up for miscommunications, because every single person, no matter where they were raised or what culture they were raised in, got a specific message that might be slightly different than somebody else who even grew up next door to them 100%.
Speaker 1:
Doc, is there anything that you can share with us that you might have not, maybe haven't shared with us? One really good, strong strategy that you maybe didn't get to share with us? That would bring a tremendous amount of value to our listeners that maybe want to get in a relationship or are in a relationship. What would that be?
Speaker 2:
to be wanting to get in a relationship or are in a relationship. What would that be? Honestly, the first thing that popped up for me is the differences in desire. So there's spontaneous and responsive desire. So, when it comes to a sexual connection in couples, I also provide sex therapy for couples, and that is something that you know, I think, when we're younger or when hormones are raging, in our society we kind of elevate the idea of spontaneous desire. Right, it's like in the movies you see somebody across the bar, sparks fly suddenly. You're having this like crazy. You know magnetic chemistry and it's spontaneous and nobody had to do any work for any of that to happen. Right, but in a long-term relationship, really cultivating responsive desire, of you know, pleasure comes first and then arousal happens, rather than waiting for arousal and then pleasure happens. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:
Of course. So pleasure comes first and then arousal. How do you do that? Give us some strategies how to do that.
Speaker 2:
So it really is about setting up the environment. So I talk about you know, if you're hungry, you rely on spontaneous desire, right? So it's like you're hungry, I'll eat whatever, I'll eat a can of beans, whereas if you're not, you know you're like not super hungry yet, but your partner is like let me cook for you. They turn on some music, they start, you know, stirring up, frying some things. It starts smelling really good. They pour you a glass of wine. So it's really about setting up the context and you start experiencing pleasure, like that smells nice, that music is good, ah, that candle, you know. And then you start experiencing pleasure and then the arousal starts to happen. And honestly, you know.
Speaker 2:
So one of the pieces of research that I used in the book and that I found when it comes to spontaneous versus responsive desire is a lot more women identify as having responsive desire, right?
Speaker 2:
So it's kind of like the preheating the oven metaphor, right, you got to preheat the oven before it's hot enough to get to where you want to go, and that's kind of you know. With the other, the spontaneous, a lot more men identify as having spontaneous desire, and so then you put these two people in a relationship, and this is where I see a lot of, you know, couples frustrated with desire. Discrepancy where the woman is saying, maybe, like, my partner only touches me when he's wanting to have sex, whereas I need a little bit more warm up, and you know the man getting then frustrated that, okay, I feel like she needs all this stuff. All I want is to feel desired and so being able to talk about. Look, there are two types of desire. There's the spontaneity of arousal right, that just happens and then there's the need to cultivate an environment of pleasure, and then the arousal starts to happen. And you, you know these are both valid and you need to be able to have the skills to do both if you're gonna cultivate a connection perfect.
Speaker 1:
That's really sound, sound, good, practical and tactical advice. I think, men, for us men, we need things like this. Like hey, we need coaching like this, like really logical coaching, like hey, you need to do this and this, and I think you find that is that what you find when you're, when you're when you're dealing with men, like hey, tell me what to do next. Like that was like what do I do? I don't know what to do. What do I do next?
Speaker 2:
absolutely, and that's part of why, you know, with writing this book, it's called strong a relationship field guide, because I really wanted to make it like a field guide that you could open it to any point and like there's an exercise, there's a strategy, there's a communication skill, there's a tool, you know, there's a diagram of, you know, the window of tolerance. There's the emotion wheel, there's, um, you know this communication skill that you can immediately apply into your life. Because, absolutely, I think you know men are like okay, I hear the background, I hear the reasoning, give me the tool.
Speaker 1:
Give me the thing. Yeah, we want the thing. Like, okay, what do I say? What do I do? Tell me what to do. I'll go and put this to work right now.
Speaker 1:
Most of us are doers, most men. We just want to know how to do it. We it's. It's not that easy for us, right? You know there's other things, but the emotional stuff you women just know like something's wrong.
Speaker 1:
I was talking to my uh, to one of my employees the other day and, uh, this actually came up and we were like we were like I saying, sharing with them that I don't, I don't understand how sometimes women say I just feel like having a good cry. And she was there. She was like you mean to tell me you never feel that I was like, no, I don't feel that. I don't know what that is. But my wife has told me she just feels like having a good cry and we can't relate like I. Just it's not a natural thing for us men, but that's like a thing for women and she was expressing what that was like, like hey, just want to let all the emotions out, like emptying a cup. She was kind of painting the picture to us and I was like no, that like I can't choose it.
Speaker 1:
When you have a, when I have a big problem, I want to get to doing and fixing. That's my cry. You want to let the emotions out. We want to just go, start figuring things out and thinking what's next, what's the next move? So we're just different. We need tactics. We need tactics. We need you know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah absolutely, and that's what I also noticed is no-transcript. They do want to be better partners, and there just maybe aren't as many resources that are tactical to appeal to men, and so that's part of why I wrote my book for men is, you know, here's some tactical skills to get you from where you are to where you want to be, by helping you bridge that gap of the capabilities.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's good stuff. Thank you for doing that. You're doing service to the world and with your book, so thank you very much. If people wanted to get a hold of you, crystal, how do people connect with you? Where do they find you? Where do they buy your book? Where can they connect? How can they connect with you online? Where are you and how do people get?
Speaker 2:
you at ATX Therapist Because.
Speaker 1:
I'm in Austin, texas, atx.
Speaker 2:
ATX Therapist and my website is just stronglove. And then my book is on Amazon. I also have it on Audible for people who are not big readers. They're more listeners.
Speaker 1:
Amazing. So, guys, make sure you go connect with her. Thank you so much, crystal, really appreciate you coming on and sharing this and talking about this much needed topic that needs to be discussed and giving us real good, real life strategies that we can go and use and practical things that we can go implement in our relationships so that we can get better. Make sure you guys pick up her book, connect with her on IG and check out her website. It's all going to be in the show notes for you guys. Thank you, crystal, really appreciate you.
