Unlocking Hidden Tax Savings (w/ Meghan Norton)

Discover how to unlock hidden tax savings in your real estate investments with insights from cost segregation specialist Meghan Norton of Source Advisors Team. Meghan reveals the powerful strategy of cost segregation, detailing how it can front-load your depreciation expenses to significantly reduce tax liabilities. Learn the nitty-gritty of reclassifying assets like decorative lighting and landscaping to accelerate depreciation and free up capital for reinvestment, all while ensuring full compliance with tax regulations.

We dive deep into the complexities of conducting cost segregation studies, discussing factors like property value, components, and investor ROI goals. Using real case studies, Meghan illustrates how these studies can transform your financial returns, highlighting prime property types such as medical centers and data centers. We also tackle the critical steps involved in scoping out a project, evaluating a property's land value, and understanding its use and renovations to maximize tax benefits and investment returns.

Finally, find out what it takes to choose a qualified cost segregation specialist to ensure the success of your investments. Meghan shares essential tips on partnering with trusted professionals, emphasizing the importance of physical site visits by accredited engineers and maintaining thorough audit support. From initial consultations to comprehensive tax strategies, this episode is a treasure trove of practical advice for property owners and high-income earners looking to optimize their tax situations through smart property investments. Tune in to elevate your real estate game with expert guidance on cost segregation!

CONNECT WITH MEGHAN!
meghan.norton@sourceadvisors.com

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:30

This is Wealthy AF, your ultimate guide to understand what it truly means to be Wealthy AF. And today's guest is Megan Norton. And Megan is a cost segregation specialist. Megan is the business development director at Source Advisors Team. Her focus is building relationships with businesses and CPAs, identifying and understanding clients' unique tax opportunities and challenges, enabling optimization of various incentive opportunities to enhance their cash flow. Basically, she specializes in cost segregation studies, which is a really big thing as it pertains to real estate investing and how.

Speaker 1: 1:08

You hear guys like Robert Kiyosaki, donald Trump, you hear guys like that, grant Cardone, say I make all these millions of dollars in real estate but pay little taxes. This is one of the strategies they deploy within their portfolio and we have Megan today to really delve deep into that with us, educate us so that we can understand how we can also take advantage of those opportunities. So, megan, welcome to the podcast. It's my pleasure to have you. I know your firm has done some work for me and I was like you got to come on my podcast and we got to talk about it.

Speaker 2: 1:39

Yes, thank you so much for having me, martin. I am thrilled to be here. As Martin alluded to, I come from a very tax technical background. Right, I have my master's in tax. I'm a CPA. I spent nearly the first decade of my career in big four public accounting before transitioning to a more corporate role, like I am, and now with Source Advisors, which is an advisory firm, and I strictly consult on tax credits, incentives, deductions. One of those incentives and strategies is cost segregation, which we'll be discussing in more length today. I also personally have real estate investment property, so for me, I'm a consumer of this information as well in these strategies. So I'm hoping I can make this digestible and applicable for all your listeners.

Speaker 1: 2:21

So I'll start with this. Guys, I was doing a cost seg study on one of my assets. Last we did a cost seg. You guys did it for me last year on one of my assets and when I had my partner and I had looked at another firm prior to you guys, someone, someone in our network, introduced us to. However, our CPA was like no, can do you know, we, our part, our CPA, CPA is your part, your CPA is your partner, right? So, whoever, whoever, whatever firm you're working with, there's certain things that your CPA has to approve. Like my bookkeeper, my CPA was like yeah, I'll work with them, or no, right, Like so.

Speaker 1: 2:58

There's certain things in the line of defense that I got to get approved through my CPA. Cost segregation company was one of them, and actually you were the. You were the one that my CPA recommended, because there's a lot, of, a lot of issues out there with cost segregation companies doing things not properly. I don't know the whole game. I don't need to know the whole game. I just need to have the right people around me to help me and inform me. And he was like this company's reputable who I work with, blah, blah, blah and boom. Here you guys are. So thank you for you know we can get into that later, if you want, about mine, if you want to share that with the audience, but I want to jump right in. So, Megan, in simple terms, what is a cost segregation study and how does it benefit property owners?

Speaker 2: 3:45

Well, I personally like to think of cost segregation as an interest-free loan in that it freloads your depreciation expense deduction that a property would otherwise get over its useful life straight line 27 and a half years for residential property, 39 years for commercial. And one thing, because I'm sure there's a lot of folks out there listening that have Airbnb or short-term rental properties those are actually considered commercial properties. So those properties have a 39 year useful life as well as considered a commercial property. But your property, when you first place it in service, has a depreciable basis, right. Let's say it has a million dollars of depreciable basis. Let's say you bought it for 1.2. You carve out the $200,000 for land, because land is not a depreciable asset. You're now looking at one million of basis.

Speaker 2: 4:32

If you don't do a cost-seg study and say it's a residential building, you divide it very simple, but over 27 and a half years, and you take that depreciation expense over its 27 and a half year light straight line With cost segregation. What we're doing is we're looking for shorter life assets, or 1245 property tied up in that $1 million basis. So we're saying it's not all 1250 real property, 27 and a half year life included in that million dollar basis. You're going to have some decorative lighting, you're going to have some carpeting, some faucets, you're going to have some, hopefully, some landscaping, some parking, some signage, exterior lighting. All of these are shorter life assets, generally 5, 7, 10 years.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Appliances All of those things are currently being depreciated over 27 and a half years where they could be depreciated over, let's say, carpet, five years, let's say landscaping, 15 years. But you're taking them over 2,700 years without cost segregation. So the purpose of the cost-seg study is to identify those assets, the value of those assets, and then take that value over the appropriate useful life of that piece of property and as a result of that, you're front-loading your depreciation expense. You're getting a bigger expense than you would otherwise get using straight line and, as a result of that income, less expenses, right when you're calculating your tax liability. So you're deferring your taxes and that frees up capital cashflow for you to invest in other things, potentially other properties.

Speaker 1: 6:13

Yes, which is a whole point. I want you to, if you know, because I think people are curious about this Guys like Donald Trump, right? So Donald Trump got a lot of heat while he was president, while he was running for president, with his tax returns, this and that and that. When he finally revealed his tax return, I think he only paid $750. You got guys like what's his name? Warren Buffett, that he says he pays less taxes than his secretary. That's a different conversation, but I want to stay with the real estate guys, because the cost segues for real estate. You got guys like Robert Kiyosaki. He's on on the internet everywhere saying, oh, he, he, he taunts how he uses the tax system and he pays less taxes. Right, Can you be? Can you elaborate a little bit? Was this the reason why a guy as rich as Donald Trump, Was this the reason why a guy as rich as Donald Trump, right, paid so little taxes? Is this it, Is this the secret sauce that he used, legally for him to pay as little taxes as he paid?

Speaker 2: 7:26

Well, there's a lot of things at play for folks like Donald Trump, right, where there's a lot of different angles, and real estate is one of those, for sure, and when you're talking about real estate and investment properties because you're only able to depreciate investment properties, right, if it's a personal use home, a second home, a vacation home, a primary residence, you don't get to depreciate those assets. So this is an employee for them, right? So Donald Trump owns a hotel, right? Think about the depreciable basis of a hotel and then think of a hotel that he placed in service in, let's say, tax year 2022, when you had 100% bonus year. You have 100% bonus year from September 27, 2017 through year end in 2022, which is essentially stating very simple terms here that your shorter life assets, your 5, 7, 15-year assets, you can take it 100% for those years placed in service if it's placed in service in those tax years. So, for him, if he has a hotel he placed in service in 2022 and all of those shorter life assets identified, he gets to take 100% of that expense for those assets in 2022.

Speaker 2: 8:40

I mean, that's millions of dollars that he's able to front load his expenses for, defer his taxes, and guys like that and people like that men, women are very savvy about when are we placing this in service, utilizing all of these bonus options and bonus, by the way, is being phased out, right? And you and I had this discussion because you have a property recently placed in service and about to be placed in service in 2024, which is a 60% bonus year, so you're getting 60% of that in tax year 2024. And, as you can imagine, that's still a really large chunk, right. That's being phased out. In next year it'll be 40%, in 26, it'll be 20% until it's zero. There is a bill in Congress right now Hopefully not.

Speaker 1: 9:34

Hopefully something will come back for us.

Speaker 2: 9:37

The bill fits in Senate right now and hopefully it'll retroactively reinstate 100% bonus and right now the way the rule is written or the law is written through to beginning of 2026, essentially fixing bonus to 100% through the TCJI Act, which expires end of 2025.

Speaker 1: 9:59

Can you tell us what you know about this bill? I think it would be. For my purposes. It would be self-fabricated. I want to know.

Speaker 2: 10:05

Tons of provisions in the bill. Child tax credit is one piece of it. Child tax credit is one piece of it. Section 174 amortization is a big piece of it. That has greatly affected American business rather than expense them under Section 174. But the bonus piece of this is trying to retroactively fix. So in 2023, where it's 80%, it would fix it to 100. 24 would fix it to 100. 25 would fix it to 100. And then, when TCJA expires, I'm sure we'll be revisiting again.

Speaker 2: 10:52

The reason that this bonus was presented was to try and encourage developers and investors like yourself, Morten, to invest in real estate. Hey, we're giving you this bonus so you can get this major influx of cash flow as a result of deferring your taxes, and it was meant to incentivize and it worked. It really worked right, and you're also now seeing the effects of that taper off and you're seeing people try and get creative to get their place in service state to line up with the bonus years that give them the biggest bonus, and so it's certainly something that I think we'll see either some sort of the folks who are listening that might have real estate investment properties that were placed in service during bonus years and they haven't taken advantage of cost segregation. It's not too late. So that's another thing right. You can look back to earlier tax years. You don't have to amend your returns, and these are the types of discussions that maybe your CPAs are having with you. You don't need to amend your returns and these are the types of discussions that maybe your CPAs are having with you. You don't need to amend your returns.

Speaker 2: 12:16

Say, you placed a property in service in 2022, Martin and you just decided to straight line depreciate it. You thought I'm just going to depreciate it. I'm not going to look into cost side for this property. It's only $400,000, $500,000 property. I don't see the impact. I'm just going to keep it moving. $400,000, $500,000 property I don't see the impact. I'm just going to keep it moving.

Speaker 2: 12:39

It's not too late now. We can look at it and we file Form 3115, which is an automatic change in accounting method. You don't have to amend your return. You aren't limited to only your open tax years, so you can look back. I look back for some clients to 10 years where there's still plenty of depreciation left right. When it stops to being feasible really is when you've accumulated so much depreciation already that there's not a whole lot left in the pie right. But 5, 7, 10 years, those are still good years where there's still probably enough basis to look at. And then we just calculate a 481A catch-up adjustment for you, which, in my example, with you placing a property in service in 2022, let's say we file it in your 24 tax return that 41A catch-up adjustment just says hey, Martin was eligible to take 100% bonus for all of these assets in 2022. Here's the catch-up in 24. He's going to get this benefit in 24 for what he otherwise was eligible to take in 22 and even 23. And you get to see that benefit on your 24 return.

Speaker 1: 15:04

That's freaking amazing.

Speaker 2: 15:07

And it's automatically accepted by the IRS that form 3115. Accepted by the IRS, that form 3115. So there's not like this heavy duty lift of having to amend an old tax return and correct from whenever you place the property in service through current year to date. It's just a simple line item on your current tax return, that 481A catch-up adjustment. So it's definitely something to consider, especially, like I said, for those folks who have properties placed in service in those bonus depreciation years. And placed in service for definition purposes is when your property is available for lease right. So if you have a property that's a residential property, when did you make that available for tenants to lease it? It's not when they signed the lease or when the lease started, it's when it was.

Speaker 1: 15:56

So, just to be clear, you can do a cost-site study on single family. So if there's an investor out there that has a portfolio of single families, you guys could do a cost-site study on that. Yes, Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 16:09

Single families, Airbnbs, condos, apartments. Really, it's down to what the investor's ROI is, what ROI is important to them. Right, there's going to be some benefit there, I'm sure of it. There's always going to be some level of 5, 7, 10-year property in their residential, unless it's been completely gutted. But it's about what the ROI is. So if they have a $200,000 property and we're only able to maybe accelerate 20K for them, is it worth it for them? But that's part of the process is understand from an estimate, feasibility analysis perspective, and this is something that we do and other firms do. Feasibility analysis perspective and this is something that we do and other firms do is what does that potential look like for this property?

Speaker 1: 17:03

And then is the ROI there for us to complete. And I want us to actually use a real case study. We can use mine, because we looked at a couple of my properties in my portfolio. I'm cool with you sharing that in a moment, right, so we can kind of look at that. Where you said, no, martin, on that asset, does it make sense? We don't think it makes sense. You know, you and my CPA got together and said no, we don't think this one makes it's a good investment for you to make the investment and we'll cost, like on that one we think, is it good on this? We think it's good on this one, we don't think it's good on that one. So we'll give them a real life study. But before we go into, like you, you explaining that to us, I'd like you to walk us through the typical process of conducting a cost seg study and what can property owners expect during this process.

Speaker 2: 17:49

It's a great question. So and Martin, you can back me up on this we personally do quite a bit of work on the front end, right. So I can kind of through the feasibility analysis and then the study process. But generally when we're scoping a project it's okay what is the place and service, date, purchase price. We need to carve out the value of the land, right. So sometimes the CTA says okay, this property is based in XYZ location. We always use 30, 35% for land. We're just going to utilize that. Sometimes it's us looking at your property tax assessment or your appraisal to get your land value ratio calculation to apply to your purchase price, to value the land. But at the end of the day we always need evaluation for the land so that we can back that out, since it's not depreciable, to ultimately get us to your depreciable basis. Of course, if you have a property that you've been holding for a while and you've done renovations to, for example, you add the value of whatever you spent in your renovation to your depreciable basis. So say you have a $1.2 million acquisition. Let's say the land is valued at $200,000. We're now at $100,000. But you put $100,000 into it this year on renovations. Your basis is now $1.1 million, so it's always got to calculate the basis.

Speaker 2: 19:07

We also have to understand what the property is utilized for. Is it a residential property? If it's a residential and it's multifamily, how many different units? What is the floor plan? Because that's going to help us understand how many kitchens are there, how many bathrooms are there and get our arms around the scope. The same goes for commercial. Is it a retail property? Is it a data center? Oddly enough, data centers get incredibly good results from a cost segregation perspective because they need a lot of additional types of electrical. All of those telecom cables are shorter life assets. Pooling for servers and computers are shorter life assets. So, data centers, medical centers, those get a really great benefit as well and the scope can be really large. So, understanding the use of the property, and then we look at it whatever we can get. Oftentimes we'll look at an appraisal, if it's available, public data, anything to get our arms around what it looks like interior, exterior, to get a range that we can expect from accelerated depreciation from 5, 7, 10, 15-year properties.

Speaker 1: 20:18

What types of properties benefit most from a cost-expect value?

Speaker 2: 20:22

It's a good question. Again, medical centers are. The more complex the better. That's a really good kind of okay. The more complex the better, because they're going to have more shore life assets in it. Theoretically, restaurants can be really great, especially ones with advanced kitchens. Data centers, medical facilities Things that are not great usually are going to be something simple like a garage. Right, do you just store cars in this garage? Maybe there's not much in there. It's a concrete slab with a roof and maybe some pull doors. There's not going to be much that we can pull out outside of the. You know the properties or the building's components, right? Same thing with warehouses just blank warehouses without much in there is not going to be great. One thing I will say that has come up a lot has been self-storage and storage centers. Those are actually really great targets and they're being snatched up left and right. I'm not sure if you've kind of heard about this in the real estate space, but there's a really great ROI from a revenue perspective yes, low maintenance.

Speaker 2: 21:33

Easy to to manage, easy business to manage, just yes, right and they also tend to get a really good benefit because all of those different self-storage have the rolling doors, they have lighting and a lot of them have some advanced um capabilities because they're they've got gates, they've got codes, they've got codes, they've got ramps, they've got plenty of doors and exterior lighting. So those actually can get a really great benefit. And that's when we've seen tick up a lot in the industry as clients are snapping them up. But I would say general rule is the more complex the better, but that doesn't rule out hi, I have a single family. The more complex the better, but that doesn't rule out hi, I have a single family.

Speaker 2: 22:22

I do a lot of I live in Miami, I do a lot of high-rise condos, investors that own several different condos in these high-rise buildings and they're 700, 800 square foot single bedroom Airbnb type properties and they still get a good return, you know, because, especially because they have a depreciable basis, they're paying a million dollars for them, right? So their starting point is so big.

Speaker 1: 22:43

That's crazy. So this leads to my next question, and we can weave in real life examples. So it's is a cost seg worth it right? Can you elaborate on the potential cost-saving versus the investment study itself? And you can use, if you like, my example of a couple I sent you and the deals we've done together?

Speaker 2: 23:04

Yeah, so there's a couple of things at play. I've seen some buildings that are relatively run down and they're almost gut jobs right. There's nothing really usable still there. Their useful life is already almost finished. They're not going to have a high value placed on a non-functioning fridge or oven. So anything that's kind of run down that you're planning to gut run at it and maybe it was kind of bought on the cheap, that's probably not going to be a great target. A good example of this, where the ROI might not be there, is going to be.

Speaker 2: 23:48

Generally speaking, if you're spending less than like $300,000 on a property, the ROI probably isn't there. So that's kind of the starting point. I like to see 500 plus, but I've certainly done ones in the 250 to 300K range where there's enough ROI there. But you're probably looking at a 3 to 1 to 5 to 1 ratio of ROI rather than the 10 to 1 plus that I personally like to see.

Speaker 2: 24:14

But to some clients that's all that they need. They're like, hey, we have this tax liability that's 30K and we just want to offset it this year and we'll do the same thing next year by buying another property that's small and we'll just keep doing that to continue to offset our tax liability and they plan to hold the building for long enough that depreciation recapture isn't such a nagging issue for them then okay. So some of it is client's appetite of what ROI is important to them, and then some of it is their building just doesn't have enough there, whether it be that you get inside and there's little to no shorter life assets, or it's that they might get 15, 20K and that's just not enough for them, even if it is a three or 401 benefit to fee ratio.

Speaker 1: 25:07

So I want to my asset, the one that you guys are going to be doing my next cross-study on. So I bought that. You know, if I'm listening to you, if I'm just a listener on this podcast, and I'm listening to you, right, because we talked about donald trump but we talked about, uh, robert kiyosaki, right, frank cardone. Most people can't relate to those guys. They're too big, yeah, right, but they can relate to a little five unit, six unit, ten unit, right, unit, right. That's only relatable, that seems a little bit more more relatable to regular folk, right, that they can, they could potentially buy that. So the one I bought, you know you said, hey, if it's sub three, but I bought it for 280.

Speaker 1: 25:52

We wind up putting $107,000 or $800,000 into this property and it made a lot, a lot of sense for us, with what the study is going to cost me versus what I'm going to get in cost. And I don't call it credits. My CPA keeps correcting me but I just call it credits. I don't know why. What is it? You call it what you get.

Speaker 2: 26:11

I say incentive or solution or accelerated depreciation.

Speaker 1: 26:17

Accelerated depreciation. He keeps correcting me. He's like it's not credits, it's not credits. And I'm like dude, that's what I call it, bro Like just leave me alone, right, so. So, so that that dollar amount that I'm getting in accelerated depreciation, it made sense, right so, let's talk to that. Let's talk to that, right.

Speaker 1: 26:36

Like, hey, maybe there's a high income earner listening to us right now and they see an opportunity. Like, hey, this building is, you know, jacked up because this building was condemned the one I bought was condemned. I went in there, I nearly gutted it, almost, I mean this close to gutting. It Didn't completely gut it, but I was really close. And that was also a strategy, because had I gutted it 100%, then I had to put sprinkler systems in there, based on the city. So we made sure we stood under 50% gut so that we didn't have to put a sprinkler system in the property. So let's just say someone is.

Speaker 1: 27:19

If someone is listening to us right now and is saying, okay, I'm a high income earner and I don't have, I'm paying a lot of taxes, right, this sounds like a great thing. How is Donald Trump doing it? How is Robert Kiyosaki doing it? How are these guys doing it? How are they lowering their tax liability by using real estate? Maybe they see a property like this. They buy it for, I don't know, 200,000. So my numbers were 280 and we're wind up putting 800 or 700 or something like that. I know we're over at, we're at 1.1 or 1 million. All in which, I think, was the sweet spot for you guys and my CPA, like you guys were like yeah, this is sweet, right here, boom, you hit it and um, I'm getting all of these tax credits. I think it was 380,000. I don't remember.

Speaker 2: 28:10

I remember the high end. If you're somewhere in 300, it's right 380,000 in credits.

Speaker 1: 28:21

I'm going to call them so when?

Speaker 2: 28:23

so, when Corey listens to this he's going to pull his hair out. Yes For letting you get away with that.

Speaker 1: 28:27

So, uh, yeah, so, so, whatever, I'm getting 350 or 80,000 or something like that in credits, which is a big deal for me, right? So when does this make sense for someone? Versus that one made sense. Can you elaborate on when that one made sense? And then the other one that I owned, which I purchased for in 22, I think, or 21.

Speaker 1: 28:50

And I remember, when the eight unit, one that you looked at, I say, hey, look at this one, let me know if this one makes sense, and you guys collectively, you and my CPA, said no, this one is no go, I bought that one for two. Oh shit, I'm going to say 200. It. I bought that one for two. Oh shit, I'm going to say 200. It was a great deal, 240. I bought it for 240. And I think I put 200. I remodeled the whole building, I remodeled six or seven of the eight units and I put 200,000. Yeah, I know, I got a really good deal. I got great guys, got a great team, got a really, really good, good price. Could you elaborate on why one made sense and why one didn't make sense from a cost-ex standpoint?

Speaker 2: 29:28

Sure. So if you had come to me with the one property that we are moving for, the cost-ex study on, and you didn't do those renovations or weren't planning to do those renovations, and you said, hey, take a look at this property, I bought it for 280. It's an eight-unit multifamily and I went in there, I would say there's no benefit there and that's because it was 50% gutted. You know, there was very little left other than the actual building structure, right, and anything that was left was probably going to be anyways, right. So I would say, sure, you know, if it was a $280,000 single family, that was in great shape, there'd be benefit there. But because of the interior and what was left there nothing but that $700,000 that you're spending it's actually going to be very little will be 20,000 and a a half year property. Most of it will be that shorter life property we're putting in the shorter life property.

Speaker 1: 30:30

Right now we speak, by the way, I'm spending money like there's no tomorrow on that thing. I'm just burning cash with the light fixtures, all that stuff, the appliances, all that stuff going in now, which is the final. We're going to talk about that after the podcast and when we can get you in there, but we're at the final, which is where you burn the most money.

Speaker 2: 30:48

Yeah, and light is a great example, right? So lighting that's necessary to make your way around a building. Let's use an office for those horrible drop ceilings with the flat fluorescent light that all of office buildings have. That would be 39-year life. That's necessary. If those lights are off and it's evening, you can't get around the building, right? You're walking through the hallways and you look at an executive store and there are these two beautiful spouses. Or there's this gorgeous chandelier in the lobby Not necessary for you to get around the building, right?

Speaker 2: 31:28

It's decorative, it's attractive, that is five-year property. Not only is the sconce or the chandelier the value of that able to be taken at five-year, but also the light switch, the electrical wiring and conduit that support that light switch and that lighting. So it's more to it than just, hey, we're buying this from Home Depot, this light, and slapping it on the wall. Let's take that $70 that we spent and put it in five-year. No, no, no. There's a lot of other stuff that supports it to take. And that's why projects like yours are so great, because we're honestly able to almost track all of those expenses, right, because you have your plans, you have your invoices.

Speaker 2: 32:17

So when you do renovations like this to a building that needs significant renovations.

Speaker 2: 32:24

There is a lot there that's not only clearly five-year but that supports the five-year that you're able to, or 7, 10, 15, that you're able to take under cost segregation. So your property is an excellent example and it's very it's nice to have all of the invoices that back up all of those expenses. Right? But say you bought that property complete, say we're fast forwarding to November and the property is done and it's placed in service, and you, martin, bought it from another real estate investor November 1 with tenants in place, and he placed it in service and say he spent 1.5 million on it.

Speaker 2: 33:04

Well, now we need to determine, of that 1.5 million, what is attributable to those shorter life assets that are clearly tied up in that 1.5 million. So the purchase price or the acquisition price is your starting point, but renovations are included on top of it and oftentimes renovations tell a really good story of what exactly is that shorter life asset and what the value and costs of those assets are For your other property and I believe one of the and correct me if I'm wrong, but if not, this is still important For one of those properties, unclear on how long you're going to hold it. Is that correct with that property?

Speaker 1: 33:51

For the other one, the eight unit. That didn't make sense.

Speaker 2: 33:55

Yeah. And so say you were planning to sell it for a game, right? You got it on the cheap. You did a really nice renovation, relatively little expense. Let's call it $400,000 all in for an eight-unit multi-family. That's only $50,000 per unit, theoretically just high-level math here, right? And so, okay, how much of that really can be attributed to your kitchen exhaust or your appliances or your faucets, etc. A lot of that's going to be building component, right? So maybe there wasn't a ton of shorter life asset in there, or at least the value would have been relatively low, because the total depreciable basis is relatively low for an eight-unit multifamily. Depreciable basis is relatively low for an eight-unit multifamily. But say you think okay, well, next year I'm going to sell it because I know I can make $500,000 from this. I'm going to sell it for a million and I'm going to make $500,000 on this.

Speaker 2: 34:53

If you did a cost segregation study, then you would have to deal with bonus recapture and depreciation recap when you go to sell. So I tell investors if they're looking to sell within the next three to five years or more, let's still have the conversation, let's run a recapture analysis and see what that would look like to you. But if you're planning to sell it within less than three years, then it might not make sense to you, unless the immediate cash is more important and paying the recapture in a couple of years isn't something that concerns you, but a lot of people, and this is something that I caution people. Be very careful about what you're consuming on things like social media, where people have 20 to 30 seconds to explain cost segregation or bonus depreciation or 1031 exchanges that paint it through rose colored glasses, because, hey, it's hard to communicate all of the ins and outs of it in 20 to 30 seconds. But one thing that's really important to know is it's not just free money, right? You can't just take the acceleration and then ride off into the sunset, sell it and only have to pay capital gains. That is not how it works. So I have an example with numbers that I could share if you think it's not too complicated to follow on a podcast.

Speaker 2: 36:24

But let's say you purchased a property and we've already backed out the value of land. Let's say you're starting with a million dollars and then let's say you've held it for three years but you took cost segregation on it, so you've accumulated 500K of depreciation. Some of that is 1245 or shorter life assets that we've identified in cost segregation. Some of it is your 1250 property that you are straight line, depreciating over its useful life, as you would without cost segregation. So your adjusted basis is now 500, right, you've got the million dollars. Less your cumulative depreciation, you've got 500K of adjusted basis.

Speaker 2: 37:02

Let's say, martin, you sell your property. You sell it for $1.5 million. Amazing, made $500,000 on your purchase price. That $500,000 is a capital gain, taxed at 20%. Investors are like amazing, that is so much lower than my ordinary income tax rate, right, no problem, I'll pay that capital gain rate of $500,000. What's important to note is that other $500,000, that accumulated depreciation is subject to recapture. And here's the thing that's important for people to know the 1250 property is subject to a tax rate of up to 25%. So that's your 39-year or 27 and a half-year useful life property, right, but anything that was identified as 1245 property, which is your shorter life personal property, is subject to your ordinary income tax rate. So you're going to end up essentially recapturing whatever benefit you got by taking cost segregation. The IRS closed that loophole that they saw, saying, okay, we don't want people to take cost segregation and then sell their property and only get taxed at that lower cap gain or all 50 rate. So it's just something to keep in mind for investors who are looking at cost segregation.

Speaker 2: 38:24

If they're planning to sell their property soon, let's run a recapture analysis. Make sure it makes sense. Are there things that we can do, donald Trump, to shift things a little bit? Sure, can we take a partial asset disposition? Did you do a renovation? Let's write off that partial asset disposition. Now we're no longer subject to the ordinary tax rate on that piece we wrote off.

Speaker 2: 38:50

Okay, can we claim that some of this renovation cost is actually a repair? A repair is not subject to depreciation recapture. So there's things that we can do and look at, but there are conversations that you need to be having with someone who is an expert in this right. So be having discussions with your CPA, with your advisory firm, with your wealth manager, your estate planner, because and I don't know if you want to get into this, martin, but 1031 strategies and the disposal or the keeping of your property in an LLC, 1031 exchanging your properties until they end up in your estate, until you pass and then you're gifted or left to your heirs, who get the step up in basis and don't ever have to deal with that taxed game.

Speaker 1: 39:47

So here's the thing about what you just said. It's amazing and it's all legal and a lot of people resent it. Right, a lot of middle-class people resent it. And guys, if you're listening to this and you're saying you know, amanda, just not Amanda, I'm sorry. Megan just shared Amanda's a friend. She texted me, so sorry about that. Megan just shared a strategy, a really advanced strategy on how the rich people and wealthy people don't pay taxes. Right, this is one of those strategies. And she just shared a really advanced strategy using the 1031 from entity Go and keep going until you pass. And then what she just shared and some people resent that, hey, how rich get richer. It's not that they're cheating or anything, it's just they have the information. They have a skill set and they have the information. Guys, you're listening to this podcast. You now have part of the information. It's just time for you to get in the game and make a decision that you want to play this game and you're going to learn and get better as you go, because you don't have to know everything. You just got to know enough.

Speaker 1: 41:02

I had a year a few years ago, Megan, where I had a really high tax liability and I went. I went, we talked about this and I went to my CPA and I was like, dude, like this can not happen again. Like I'm a real estate guy, I'm a real real estate professional, like this is what I do all day long. None of this bull crap. People that try to play the game and skirt around it and they're like, oh, I have short-term rental. No, no, no, I'm a real real estate professional. Like, really real real estate professional. I'm doing this full, full time. I was like, why am I paying so much taxes and I own all these rentals?

Speaker 1: 41:38

And I missed the boat. Right, I missed the boat. I did a lot of money. I made a lot of money with flipping and active income and I didn't plan accordingly. Shame on me. But I learned and I came back and we hired you guys and I was like, uh, uh, uh, not happening again. I gotta, you know, I'm doing cost eggs and I'm gonna be playing the games that the big boys play. Yeah, and that's how we learned, we get, we learn and we get better by getting burned. So if you're listening and you're like saying, okay, well, all this stuff, you know, or maybe you're resenting it or you're thinking like, well, that's how the rich got richer. Well, you can do it too Right, and you can create wealth too. This podcast is about wealth and money and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 42:19

And start small, right? Get an Airbnb, maybe educate we will educate you, someone will educate you on the short-term rental loophole. Maybe you can utilize that and then, instead of just being able to offset your passive income, you can offset your ordinary income. Martin, I know, because you're a real estate professional and you meet those designations, you're able to offset your ordinary income, right? Not everyone can do that, so they're just subject to passive.

Speaker 2: 42:44

So, having the conversation okay, what do I need to be? What thresholds do I need to meet? What kind of property should I be investing in to be able to utilize it to offset my ordinary income? Or, okay, well, I only have a 20K tax liability. This is going to give me a $60,000 benefit. What about that other $40,000?

Speaker 2: 43:04

Well, guess what? That loss? You don't lose that. You carry that forward indefinitely. So get your benefit for the current tax year, carry forward your loss to the next tax year and then think about what we can do for the next tax year. Are you going to have $100,000 liability? Let's use that $40,000 and let's find another property that you can use that cash flow to help offset the remaining 60K. But use this as part of your tax planning strategy instead of reactive strategy. Right Once you start to have these conversations with your CPAs and your advisors, you start to think about these things on the front end and prospectively, instead of just looking to the past which, by the way, as we mentioned, if you have past investments, those are still on the table.

Speaker 1: 43:53

Let's look at them, let's take the benefit now and carry forward with whatever you're not able to utilize I want to on that same note, right, I want to go into how can property owners ensure that they're working with a qualified and experienced cost specialist. Because remember what I told you I had we had someone recommend a cost side company to us and we were, we were all good, and then we were good with it, like we didn't know any better, right, my partner, we're not, it's not our game, like, it's your game, right, and we're like, okay, fine, and then we sent it to our, we sent it to our cpa. My cpa was like no, and he pulled up. Actually, he actually even pulled up. He sent us some articles, uh, some cost side companies, and I think this company was involved in something, something. So that wasn't kind of shady. I don't remember the name of the company, whatever. And we looked at it. My partner and I were like, ah, okay, but what do you recommend? Right, and it's, you know, you guys are all kind of in the same space and and he recommended you guys.

Speaker 1: 44:59

So how do how can property owners ensure they're working with a qualified and experienced cost tech specialist? That's really going to set them up for success, because when you send me, for instance, into one that we're working on right now. I just engage you guys in right the, which you guys will be doing in a few weeks here, cause we're at the tail end of the construction. I'm getting text messages as we speak right now with wires you were talking about electrical wires, that like electrical wires. Literally, I got a big roll of 209 500 feet of electrical wire just got delivered for the basement part.

Speaker 1: 45:34

So anyways, um, how do how do people uh find that that, that? How do they vet that specialist right? How do they make sure that it's the right one and it's not fly by night or someone that's going to ultimately hurt him in the long run? Because the last thing I want is to get a letter from the irs or some shit like that. I like I just don't want to deal with that. I make sure my stuff is clean, it's's done the right way and I don't want to pay taxes. Real talk, who does? Let's be honest. Who does you being honest?

Speaker 2: 46:10

I'm a CBI. I want to lower my objective tax.

Speaker 1: 46:13

Yeah, absolutely. Who does? Who wants to pay, especially an investor right? We need our cash to keep investing, to keep playing. We want to keep playing, I want to keep playing, I want to keep. I want to keep as much as money as I can for my, for myself, not for my lifestyle per se, but to keep playing and to keep growing and to keep investing the money and growing the money.

Speaker 2: 46:31

You've got contractors, you've got subs, you've got vendors I got employees.

Speaker 1: 46:35

I got, I got, I got. I'm running a business here and it's it's not. It's not easy, it's not cheap. You know, it costs money to do so. So I don't, as a business owner man, I don't. The government is not my partner, we are not partners. I'm putting in the work here, buddy, I'm the one doing the work. It's me building the team, it's me, but it's my team and I right.

Speaker 2: 46:57

So I need that money to go back into the business, so I can continue to grow the business, to go back into the business so I can continue to grow the business, yes, and having someone doing this work that not only you trust professionally but has a quality product. And luckily we partner very frequently with CPA firms to bring these opportunities to their clients. And the CPAs, at the end of the day, are filing the tax returns with the numbers and the studies and the information we're giving them. So they're the best way to speak to their client and say, hey, we trust them, because if the CPA trusts us to bring the solution to their client and ultimately sign the tax return with this information we're providing, that's the best vouch we can get right.

Speaker 1: 47:41

You know what CPA to that real quick. I just want to big you up on that really quick. You know my CPA said to me when he did my tax returns this year. He said to me I feel super good. Your tax returns with this cost seg is freaking bulletproof. He said I don't care who comes. This is what he told me. Literally he was like I don't care who comes, who, what? You are 100% bulletproof. We don't got nothing to worry about with what you did with the cost seg that you guys provide.

Speaker 2: 48:11

Just want to share that to your I need to snip this and put it on our website. But some of this is longevity right. How long have they been in this space? You know we've been doing this for 40 plus years. That's not a requirement, but a lot of these ERC firms or farms, I should call them that were taking advantage of taxpayers and submitting these ERC claims that really shouldn't have been submitted. When ERC dried up, then they pivoted to other incentives. So we see some of like okay, how did they start? How long have they been around?

Speaker 2: 48:46

There is a audit technique guide published by the IRS for cost segregation. Do they follow that? Do they send an accredited engineer out on site reform site visits or are they doing it virtually? Virtually is going to be a lower cost to a client, right, but do you really want a behind-the-computer site visit being performed when what really matters is getting your eyes and ears around the project, like that lighting example that I gave you? Right, would they have identified that if they were behind their computer? Or looking at walking around your property and understanding your landscaping and the number of parking spaces and all of this information? Are they able to do that as well, virtually behind a computer? Is it again an engineer performing this ASCSP is an important credential. How many maybe move on and that's kind of the highest credential you can get in the cost segregation profession.

Speaker 2: 49:55

Martin, are there fees inclusive of audit support? Our fees are inclusive of audit support. The reason for that is we stand behind our quality and our product. If the IRS ever were to audit one of our clients that we did a cost segsave study on, you forward that idea right over to us. We respond we get all the information needed and you're not going to get any additional billing, out-of-scope billing, et cetera, as a result of that. So making sure that is part of their fees. They stand behind their work. Referrals asking for referrals, asking for clients that have have worked with them before. How many studies do they do a year?

Speaker 1: 50:36

if it's in the thousands, okay, let's like continue the discussion, but just making sure that it's not kind of smoke and mirrors where we're doing this study behind our computer with a couple employees that don't have engineering or cda tax we had a few of those bid on our project too, before we hired you guys and one of my friends and one of my really smart like she's very wealthy, she's been on this podcast before I called her and I was like, hey, I don't want to mention her name, but I was like, hey, friend, can you recommend? I'm looking to do cost tag. Bye-bye, we had the money discussion about taxes and this and that, because you know, people with money are always concerned about taxes I mean, they're always concerned about that, they're always looking for ways to lower tax liability and I said, hey, man, I need help here. And she recommended a company, which I think is a couple of companies and one of them she was doing she had recommended a virtual but you don't know what.

Speaker 2: 51:41

You don't know right. I'm sure she hasn't read the IRS's audit technique and I'm sure most people haven't. I'm probably one of the selective people. What I'm thinking is light reading or know that it's out there. Another what I'm thinking is light reading or know that it's out there. Another thing I would say is make sure someone's calling you to talk to you about the property. It's just hey, we'll submit a quote and we'll start this tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 52:02

Okay, do you want to learn more about my property? Do you want to learn more about my tax pattern? Do you want to ask me if I'm planning to sell within the next day or two? Do you want to ask me if this was a completed 1031 transaction? Because, as a result, you need a whole lot more information than I'm sure you were given. Have you asked for an appreciation schedule if I've already filed a tax return and started depreciating the asset? There's all these questions and material and information that a good provider should be asking for and explaining why they're asking right, because, at the end of the day, it's important for investors and clients like yourselves to understand why this is important, so that you're armed with the information for when you're continuing your future investments and you know what types of properties to look for, or you know how we can maximize your depreciable basis, um, and so I think just making sure there's a human behind what you're doing and that human is is having intelligent, thoughtful conversations with you I'm really big on humans I I call me school, whatever, but I share this experience with you.

Speaker 1: 53:15

We just switched. So we just recently moved to Florida, the Florida market, and we decided to change our phone company. We went from Verizon, one of the big ones, to a local one and when we did that it was the weekend and I have a business account, right, my phone lines are all for my business, they're all in my business name. So we did that. It didn't work out.

Speaker 1: 53:44

My son is back in our other home in Pennsylvania and he was like the slime sucks, like we got this. We have a mountain house. So he was like it just doesn't work, we need to go back. So we went, decided to go back in the weekend. Now I'm going to be going up there to spend six weeks Cause I got to go finish my product, my project, and go finalize that and, um, man, we got. We got. It was such a horrible experience with going from one person to the next and next and then not a human, and I was like holy shit, like never will I, ever, when my company, as my company, grows, will I allow my company to ever get to this point that I'm constantly talking to a computer or a bot or something and no one can answer me. As smart as those things are, there's never yeah it can never compare to this.

Speaker 1: 54:36

Right like hey, you know, megan, I, I my phone's not working here, this is not working here. Can you please transfer my phone line and do it right now? So I don't like I don't, I can't lose business because my whole business is, you know, my whole company is based on this and a bot can't relate to that. It's just so. I'm really big on this. I'm just. That's just me personally. I'm on the old school. I like, I like, I like people.

Speaker 2: 55:07

Oh, I'm the same way. If I can tell it's a bot or a pre-recording, immediately May I speak to a representative. I'll say it over and over again until I know I've triggered enough that they're going to put me in a queue that might take three hours before I can speak to someone, but I'll leave a callback number before I sit there and try and struggle with getting through the bot rigmarole and it makes me feel safe in my career when I see how far we have to go before bots and ai can replace us, especially with with things like this there will be things that ai will replace us with.

Speaker 1: 55:43

There are. There's just some things that there's things like this that are just way too complex and it's my money and I just dude, I need to speak to someone. I do not want to speak to a machine. This is my money, this is my business. I do not think so. And if I cannot have this and talk to someone in person and meet with someone, we're talking about my assets. Right, that's important to me, that's really important to me. It's important to my family, it's important for my legacy. I'm not leaving that up to a bot. Sorry, that's not going to work for me. That's just my preference. Call me old school or call me whatever. Megan, if people wanted to get ahold of you, how do they connect you? Maybe they heard us and they're like hey, I want to schedule a consult, I own these 10 properties and this sounds amazing and, yes, I can relate to Martin's situation.

Speaker 1: 56:33

I pay too much taxes or they're high income earners and they have, you know, I know a lot of guys like that. They're high income earners, they have jobs, that they're high level executives and they're making amazing money and they own real estate to to, you know to bring down their tax liability, but they may not know about cost seg and they're like hey, I own. I have a friend that owns. He just bought a what do you call that Mobile home park and he's a. He's a high level executive with a company and he's making great money there and he has, you know, real estate he owns.

Speaker 1: 57:06

And you know guys like that that are like, hey, shit, I didn't know about that, how do I connect? Or you know guys like that that are like, hey, shit, I didn't know about that, how do I connect? Or someone that just has, like you said, a short-term rental a couple of them. I know a lot of guys that have short-term rentals. How do they connect with you? Where do they find you to get a consult and what does that look like? Let's give them a picture of what that looks like so that they know what to expect.

Speaker 2: 57:27

Sure they can always reach out to me via email. Megan, m-e-g-h-a-n dot Norton, n-o-r-t-o-n at sourceadvisorscom. Maybe you can add that to the notes or something It'll be in the short notes. For sure to me that you can feel free to call me, text me, email me. I try to be as available as I possibly can be to my clients, but the way generally it works is from a cost segregation perspective. Right, let me know your property address, your purchase place, your placed in service date, and from there I'll understand a little more of your property. And then I'll also understand what the additional follow-up items are. Right, if it was placed in service in earlier tax years, I'm going to request your latest depreciation schedule. Or, if it was recently purchased, I'll ask for your appraisal so I can get a better idea for the land valuation and what the property looks like interior, exterior etc. But just address, placed in service state and purchase price to start, plus any renovation costs if you've been holding it. And then from there I generally try and schedule an initial meeting and that's where we'll have a discussion similar to this. I'll give you a background on cost seg, I'll give you a background on the process, but, most importantly, I'll learn more about you. I'll learn about what your goals are. I'll learn more about your property. I'll learn about those bigger picture items.

Speaker 2: 59:02

Is this a 1031 exchange? Are you in a tax position? Can you meet any of the eligibility requirements so we can use this to offset your ordinary income rather than just your passive income? How long are you looking to hold the property for? Are you planning to do a significant renovation?

Speaker 2: 59:17

All of these questions that will be very imperative and impactful to what your actual benefit could look like. Or do we need to do an enhanced study or a TPR or a PAD study? And I won't get into all of that right now. But there are all these other implications or directions. We can take the study to maximize your benefit and theoretically minimize your taxes or defer your taxes. And maybe that also means in our discussion I learn that you built an energy efficient building. Okay, let's talk about energy deductions that might be available to you. So I'll just get to know you more and see what we can do to help you lower your effective tax rate, increase your cash flow and all of that.

Speaker 2: 1:00:03

But theoretically, we can do the feasibility analysis in a couple days to get you your estimated benefit and your fee proposal and then from there, if you do decide to move forward, you get assigned a project coordinator. They'll work with you to schedule your site visit and once your site visit is scheduled, it's kind of off and running right, martin, we're out on site. We've already collected all the information we need in order to get on site whether that be any invoices, aias, depreciation schedules, anything to support the cost associated with your building and any previous depreciation taken and then the engineer writes that report. It goes through three levels of review, whether it be including tax review and engineering review, and then you, the CPA, review the final report. Once it's good to go, you're issued the final report.

Speaker 2: 1:00:58

It's about 60 to 80 page document. It'll include all the photos of the interior, exterior. It'll include all of the asset schedules with the values associated with those assets and everything you need to support the cost segregation, the accelerated depreciation that your CPA will be filing on your tax return. It's generally about a six-week study process, from engagement letter signature to final report. But listen, we've done them in two weeks' time if we need to. So timeline is obviously something we discuss up front to make sure we can meet your needs, but six weeks is the general rule of thumb for how long it takes, so that's something important to keep in mind, too, when you're nearing tax filing or tax filing extension deadlines.

Speaker 1: 1:01:42

I'm always thinking about tax taxes, Always, always. It's always on my mind. It's one of those things that's like it's always there and I'm always. I literally set Megan orderly meetings with my CPA where it's like I come back in town next week. I'm already booking. We already booked the lunch meeting. We're friends, Me and my CPA are friends. It's like, hey, we're just catching up. He wants to know where I'm at. I want to let him know where I'm at. He needs to know he knows where I'm at. I want to let him know where I'm at. He needs to know he knows where I'm at every time, every day of the year, and you want to know where that is. I need to pay less taxes, sir.

Speaker 2: 1:02:21

Well, I tell you, if you end up selling one of those properties, make sure you talk to me. We'll discuss a 1031 exchange. We'll work together to identify a good replacement property that gets you a really great benefit, and we'll talk some future strategies to defer those gains. We don't want you paying any more taxes than you already do.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

Oh yeah, for sure I don't want to, and that's why I'm always having those conversations and I'm glad I have you guys now part of my team for this as part of that strategy for me, because, um, I don't want to pay any more taxes than I have to and I go public with that. I don't want to pay more taxes than I have to, period. I'm not saying that I'll pay my taxes. I pay my taxes, I just don't want to pay more than I have to if anyone says the contrary, they're lying they're full of it.

Speaker 1: 1:03:09

You're full of it. You know my business partner I'll share this with you when they were having this same discussion, and she's very affluent, she's very successful, she's a medical doctor, she owned multiple medical practices and we're like, hey, you know, I'm like we got to do we were talking about this cost tax study when we did it on, when you guys did it for us. Now, like I call her doc, I'm like, doc, I don't want to pay more, I want to pay more taxes period. And I have to period. And she was like well, we need services and we need police officers. And I'm like, yes, great, still don't want to pay more taxes than I have to. Awesome, I'm not saying I don't want to pay my share, I'm just saying I don't want to pay more than I have to.

Speaker 1: 1:03:47

I'm in real estate, I'm providing a service that the government wants me to provide. That's why they give us these tax incentives. We have a big problem right now to solve. I've been reporting on this week in and week out. We have 6 to 10 million new immigrants in our country that we know of now. It was four, they were reporting on four, now they're saying 6 to 10. And it's us that have to solve that. So it's the guys like me, it's the developers, the redevelopers, it's the guys creating housing, and the government is going to give us to your point on that bill. They're going to create incentives for us to come back in and continue to build and keep solving for this problem yes, and they should and they certainly should.

Speaker 1: 1:04:28

And therefore, when they make those, when they create those incentives for me, I'm gonna take them, because I'm gonna keep playing and I'm gonna keep building and I'm gonna keep doing it.

Speaker 2: 1:04:36

I want to do it legally, I want to do it the right way they're there for a reason and, like I said, you know, social media paint fest rose colored glasses like hey, here's a gift from the irs gift if you know.

Speaker 2: 1:04:51

You know the implications down the road and you plan for those right. There's always strategies around that, but it's not as simple, or you know, um, picture perfect as it looks. So just making sure education is so important, but also planning strategy to make sure down the road we have a plan in place so that there's no recapture or, you know, there is no future tax liability that you've been deferring. Let's get rid of it. Let's make a plan to not have to pay that tax.

Speaker 1: 1:05:23

One hundred percent. One hundred percent, we can do it right. So anyways, megan, thank you so much. We're out of time. Thank you so much for coming on. We're out of time. Thank you so much for coming on. You really have been a ball of knowledge, man. How much I learned here with you today, and I'm sure the listeners learned a ton today about this call.

Speaker 1: 1:05:38

Second, guys, and those of you that were kind of wondering what this guy, grant Cardone, is talking about, those of you that don't know Grant Cardone, look him up. Or this guy, donald Trump, right? Or Robert Kiyosaki. Robert Kiyosaki has a loud mouth. He goes on every social media platform he can and he taunts the middle class. I pay less tax to the middle class. I'm a real estate guy and I can do that to real estate.

Speaker 1: 1:06:04

And this is how, guys, this is one of the strategies, just so you know. This is one of the strategies how they're doing 1031s and cost segs Crazy. Actually, one of my I'm in a mastermind and one of my friends in the mastermind asked me just a couple of days ago. He was like hey, how are you? How are you? You know, we just bought three other houses, we just bought three properties and he's like hey, martin, how are you, what are you doing about, how are you handling your taxes? I said cost eggs, dude Cost eggs, and 1031s is my playbook. Moving forward, bro, and holding things 13 months or longer, and so, whatever it's, that capital gains tax goes down. That's it, that's the strategy now, and 1031 when I can, yep.

Speaker 2: 1:06:51

Absolutely, and your listeners please reach out. I'm happy to talk through any fact patterns, any questions. It doesn't even necessarily have to be about a property. If you have a question again, my email will be, I assume, in the notes or somewhere for people to reach out and don't hesitate to do so, or we can jump on a call.

Speaker 1: 1:07:11

Thank you, my dear Pleasure Honored to have you. Thank you so much.