From Swipe Culture to Deep Connections (w/ Dr. John De Oca)

What if modern dating is leaving you more confused than ever? Tune in to Wealthy AF as we sit down with Dr. John De Oca, a seasoned mental health nurse practitioner and nurse coach, to unpack the tangled web of millennial and Gen Z relationships. Dr. De Oca provides his expert insights into the aversion to intimacy and the complications of today's undefined relationships. We'll break down how the shift from exchanging phone numbers to swapping Instagram handles has reshaped our romantic pursuits, and why instant gratification might be making it harder to find lasting connections.

Discover how to build emotional resilience in the fast-paced, digital dating world. Dr. De Oca sheds light on how swipe culture is impacting our ability to form meaningful bonds and the essential clarity needed in relationship goals. Learn practical strategies to boost your confidence and communication skills, and avoid the pitfalls of superficial connections. This episode is a deep dive into the necessity of self-reflection and personal growth to thrive in modern romantic endeavors.

We also tackle the sticky subject of financial dynamics and modern relationship expectations. Dr. De Oca explains why emotional maturity and shared goals are more valuable than financial status alone. He shares his thoughts on the disillusionment stemming from social media personas and the importance of genuine human interaction. Whether you're navigating the murky waters of dating apps or trying to understand the decline in emotional intelligence in today's communication, this episode offers a comprehensive guide to fostering authentic and intimate connections.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:30

You're listening to Wealthy AF, the podcast where we cut through all the BS and teach you what it truly means to be Wealthy AF. Today's topic is going to be on modern dating scene with millennials and Gen Zers, and today's guest is Dr John DiOca. And. John is a mental health nurse practitioner and a nurse coach residing in New Jersey. He offers more than 15 years of experience in the healthcare industry, with his ultimate passion of being in relationships. John strongly believes in personal insights and development to help his clients achieve their outcome with a mind, body and soul approach. John's challenges and discoveries with his own relationships and self-image have led him to establish his coaching practice that impacts people's lives on the inside and on the out. John, thank you for coming on. Brother, my pleasure to have you here today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation here on the modern dating scene with millennials and Gen C-ers, so why don't we start? What is the biggest struggle that you find that millennials and gen c-ers have on the modern?

Speaker 2: 1:36

dating scene. I mean, I think there's several, so I think I think the first one that's really, you know, disabling relationships is the ability to explore intimacy, and I think I see this also in the gen z versus the millennials, at least the older millennials, but I think there's been this aversion to intimacy and what that looks like. And it's funny because I was watching some reality show the other day and there was these two 29-year-old gentlemen and they resembled clients that I've worked with recently. Where, you know, I think we're moving away um from even simple things like labeling a relationship.

Speaker 2: 2:20

So you know, the title of giving someone you know boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever that looks like. You know, this is something yes, that was committed, but then. But then we've moved away. From now it has to be an exclusive thing, or we're seeing each other, or there's so many more loopholes that we're going through versus where now we're talking. I think we're just moving more and more away from intimacy. A lot of things I see too and I kind of put it in the communication umbrella when we're going from dating apps it's let me get your Instagram versus let's exchange numbers. So I think what I'm seeing over and over is a lack of let's get more personal, let's get more intimate, and it's almost like we're putting more and more shells to guard ourselves Got it.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Hey, listen, man, in the 90s. So my listeners know I've been married 22 years, my wife for a long time, god bless, thank you, man, appreciate that. And in the 90s, when I was out there as a teenager, going to clubs and just in the street being a dude, it was, you know, we didn't have all this Instagram and all the apps, right, john, it was you had to run straight game, baby, like in New York City. So I grew up in New York City. It was straight game. You either had a game or you didn't have game, baby, it was. It was you had to ask for phone numbers and you know, you like the girl, you know and you're in the club. It was like, hey, man, you gotta, you gotta go charm your way. You Like, hey, man, you got to go charm your way. You got to go sell your way. You got to approach the girl. You got to deal with rejection, right, because you had to deal with rejection straight up, right to your face, like no, you're ugly or I'm not into you. Straight up, like this is the stuff that the girls will say to us I'm not into you, or they'll give you the hand or whatever. So it required game. Right, you really needed to get game. You needed to have game in order to get the number.

Speaker 1: 4:15

Today, with dating apps, right, it's just swipe right, swipe left, swipe right, swipe left. There's no connection, there's no real development of that. Like you're saying intimacy, right, you had to get the person's phone number. Then, if you got that ask, that then you had to call them and you had to. You had to have enough eq to keep them on the phone right to then let's connect and let's go meet at wherever right at the park, central park or wherever. Then that art is gone. So how have dating apps like tinder, bumble, hinge changed the way millennials and gen c approach dating? Because the day I used, the way I we used to approach dating was straight up, boom, hardcore, approach, right, like like my girl.

Speaker 2: 5:02

So how has that changed? You know, I'm so glad you asked this question because you mentioned a lot there. So you're talking about dating in the 90s, so the first thing I guess I want to talk about here is going back to the 90s, right? One thing that shifted is like even when you exchange that number, which you know, people are still exchanging numbers. Now I think one thing that shifted in modern day culture is patience. So you may have exchanged a number on the Saturday and maybe the call might not have happened till Wednesday.

Speaker 1: 5:31

That's right. It had to happen on Wednesday. It wouldn't be on Sunday, because then you would be a thirst bugger.

Speaker 2: 5:36

Exactly, but nowadays I think if that call didn't happen within 24 hours, they would assume you're not interested. So I think we've lost the ability of having patience. If we're not texting within a couple of hours, we're moving on to the next option.

Speaker 1: 5:55

So I guess let's compare and contrast right and by the way, I want to add something real quick before you compare and contrast. It was a home number, it wasn't a cell phone number. So that meant that if I called right and I missed them because they were at work or whatever, it might be a week, right, right, maybe I leave a message on their answering machine and maybe they get back to me, maybe they won't, right, so it might be a week before I actually connect, or 10 days, and then you had to like, relive it, like hey, remember we met at the club blah blah, blah, blah blah, and I just got you know, I left you a message.

Speaker 2: 6:33

So just message, right. So just I just want to add to that yeah, let's not, let's not, yeah, let's not, forget about screening, so you would leave the message. They might be listening to the message. Like, oh, let me call back tomorrow at a better time. So like, all this could like lengthen that actual time to have that process. And then like let's say when would the actual date would happen? Because maybe it would be a couple of conversations before the date would happen. So this whole process could look like a couple of weeks where today that time frame just wouldn't do it for, like, the modern day dater.

Speaker 2: 6:59

But now when we're looking at what modern day dating has done, right, so there are advantages. So when you're meeting out in person at a club or or a bar, the ability to filter out some of the things you don't want might not be there. So like, let's say, you know, maybe at a bar we're succumbing to chemistry and physical attraction too quick, where we like already developing feelings based on, you know, more of a superficial conversation, where we have the ability to discern in an app where I know I'm looking for a serious relationship. So let me ask these questions now what are you looking for Things like that, which you could still do in person. But you know, I think the app gives us a little more of an ability to discern. We could also see, you know, let's say we get to the point, we're exchanging numbers Do I want to have a date with this person? Can I go on a FaceTime call and see? So there is some advantages to the apps, but I think we're also missing in the advantages, in this excess.

Speaker 2: 8:06

With the excess, you know, like more money, more problems, right? So all this excess that you have, all this openness that you have to people like comes more bullshit, if you will. So you have all the problems that are coming with all the access to all these people. So while you in the nineties you may have had not a date like ever, you could have a date every day now, if you want, where the opportunity for that may not have been as frequent back then. Now, if you're having a date with all these people, the ability to have open access to all these people's problems is very much in your wheelhouse now too. So I think that's one of the disadvantages of modern day dating is all this access to people.

Speaker 1: 8:50

So what comes with that? So there's some upsides and I think and I love to unpack this with you right, so you said there's some advantages to that. So I think there's some advantages and there's some disadvantages, okay, and actually I think the advantages is on the upside for the ladies, not for the men, if you're in a, you know, opposite sex relationship. And I think the advantages for the lady is the safety part, right, so you can kind of check out from afar I'm going to use the word that ladies like to use is to creep. If this guy's creep, or he gives me the creep or whatever, is he safe? Can we do this? Can we have a Zoom? And so my business partner has Zoom dates before she goes out and she meets guys in real life. But I think it's a disadvantage for men. And when I say it's a disadvantage for men is because it takes away, women are intuitively more emotionally in tune, if that makes sense, right, if I may use that word, emotionally in tune. For us dudes it's a muscle we have to develop. So the eq of having to go ask a girl, dealing with rejections, that's part of being a man like, that's part of just the man. You go through that, like the girl telling you no, I'm not into you, and then you being persistent with that.

Speaker 1: 10:07

Hey man, listen, I met my wife 20, 27, 8 years ago, years ago. And when I met the girl she had a boyfriend and I literally told her the very when I saw this girl. I remember it's like a movie, right. So I was going down the train, say 34th Street, in the Manhattan Mall. You know the Manhattan Mall, you grew up in New York City as well, so you know the Manhattan Mall, so we used to work in the body shop. I was going down the train and the body shop was on the corner and you can see the store. And I remember the first time I saw this girl like a movie in my head it was I saw this beautiful girl and it was the most beautiful girl I've seen. And then I went after a job in that place, partly because I thought the girl was hot and I wanted to get with the girl. I got the job working as a stock boy in that mall and the very first day I met the girl I told her you're going to be my girl one day, straight up. I told her you're going to be my girl one day and she looked at me and she laughed in my face. She was like, yeah, right, not going to happen. She's my wife today, right? So I had to persist and persist, and persist, and persist, and persist and persist.

Speaker 1: 11:18

I think that art is lost with swipe right, swipe left, swipe right. Okay, that girl, I got another one. I got another one, I got another one. You know what I mean. So what's this? You know. That's the problem I see in modern day dating. How do men chase the woman they want? How do you chase the woman? How do you do that now or you don't. That's gone. It's just either you know, with all these filters and all these algorithms, it's either yes or no, or we're a match, or we're not a match, or that muscle's gone for dudes Like how do you know?

Speaker 2: 11:53

I mean and I think this is where men are struggling with their emotional resiliency in modern days. I think this is where you know the world is shifting right, so we have to explore other avenues. What I do like is I have seen, you know, in in different ways, men that are becoming more emotionally expressive, a little more emotional, emotionally vulnerable not the same kind of, not the same kind of man, but I think almost it's like that kind of direction that we will go to will give that same kind of confidence. So it's almost like things kind of need to shift because the world's shifting. So it's almost like kind of practicing that muscle, but now in a different setting, and building confidence and resilience in that way, elaborate for me on that.

Speaker 1: 12:45

How do you do that, right? So a girl tells you no, right? A lady tells you no, or dude, whatever, whatever your flavor is. A lady tells know, our dude, whatever, whatever your flavor is. A lady tells I'm speaking my terms. A lady tells me no and I'm like okay, no for now. Right, but I'm gonna stay in the game because I'm interested in the girl, right? So you know, I'm an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1: 13:06

So, as entrepreneurs, we got to be. We have to be resilient, we have to be innovative, we have to create, we have to figure out ways to make things work. There is, for entrepreneurs, we have no choice resilient, we have to be innovative, we have to create, we have to figure out ways to make things work. There is, for entrepreneurs, we have no choice we do or we die. That's that's, that's it, right? So, um, so how do you? How do you build that resilience?

Speaker 1: 13:27

In another way, please elaborate on that. Right Cause, when a girl, if a lady tells me like my wife, she told me no, and I was like and I just stood in the game and I was just hungry for the girl, and I was just, I just stood in the game and I kept and I was persistent and I the nice things, the chocolate, the let me buy you lunch, right, let me do this, let me do that, just just just wanted to win the girl over. How do you, how do you, how does a man build that muscle in today's world with right, left, right, left?

Speaker 2: 13:58

Yeah, I think so. I think it really depends on what the goals are, right, okay. So I think you know certain skills could manifest a little bit differently. So one getting kind of clear on what kind of relationship you want. I think there is certain men out there that want to be the initiator, the provider, like that's the relationship they want. So if you're clear on that, then you need to put yourself in the situations that are going to practice that skill for you.

Speaker 2: 14:33

If that's not for you and you're clear on that, then kind of setting the bandwidth or looking at what is the relationship style, what does the relationship template look like for you, where you're comfortable, where your ideal is, what does that look like for you? And then also taking yourself outside of the romantic space and seeing where am I at in my career Because I think that's a big thing for men nowadays too. I need to get my life together, to be in a relationship, yes and no. Where am I at with my friendships? How do I feel when I communicate? What's my relationship like with conflict? Start and explore all these avenues, because if it just becomes where this girl turned us down and we just swipe to the next, we're kind of getting stuck in a loop and there's no progress being made. Yeah, so kind of getting more of an internal experience and getting a lot of clarity on these different areas of our life and how we want to show up could kind of do that for us.

Speaker 1: 17:07

And I think what happens now, what didn't happen, then is there's a lot of ways for us to distract ourselves from this, got it? So what do you mean by that? Be more specific. Unpack that. There's a lot of ways for us to distract ourselves from that. Unpack that for me.

Speaker 2: 17:17

Yeah, so I could take my phone out. I could sit there on TikTok and look at videos for hours in a loop. Versus, you know, looking at my life, I could swipe left and right and chat with someone and it go nowhere for hours. There's a lot of lost time versus me really taking a hard look at my life. You know, going out for a walk, working with a therapist. You know, reading a book, listening to podcasts and really actually taking the time and saying how does this relate to my life? What are my goals? How do I show up? You know, getting into an argument with a friend, what was my place in this argument with a friend? Versus like let me just go look for a next friend? I think it's always like next, next, next, when these opportunities come up that are opportunities for us to explore ourselves, that nowadays it's just become it's next. Versus where did something go wrong here?

Speaker 1: 18:16

that I could improve. How can I improve? Yeah, baby, yeah, you nailed it. What, what? What did I learn from this situation? How much of this was I was caused by me and my behavior? How can I avoid? How can, how can I avoid from this happening again? How can, can I make this better next time? These are the questions, man. That's where, john, that's where wisdom comes from. In my opinion, wisdom comes from a series of lessons in life that you learn throughout your life. Where, hey, we had a falling out with this friend man. Where did I drop the ball on that man? What did I do? This is on me. Okay, I'll share this with you. I had a. I had a.

Speaker 1: 18:59

One of my employees resigned, gave me two weeks notice, and I was on a call with my coach and and on the call with do not leave companies, they leave leaders. That's powerful People. Do not leave companies, they leave leaders. And I said to my coach this is on me. I didn't lead. I didn't lead. Well, where could I have done things better? And my coach was trying to baby me a little bit, not much, but he was trying to. You know, he was trying to cause.

Speaker 1: 19:39

We hired this person together. This was a close person that worked close with me and, um, try to you, try to soften it a little bit. And I was like, nah, man, I was like this is on me. Where did I? Where did I drop the ball on me? Where did I? Where did I drop the ball?

Speaker 1: 19:58

I can always look outside, but if I, if we are not examining this from an internal perspective on where I missed it, where I could have and there was a lot of lessons where I missed it or I could have done better Um, this will happen again. Then people are going to come right as an entrepreneur, people are going to come, people are going to go. You have a company, people you hire people, people leave, you fire people. Things happen like that. But this was a person that was close and working close to me and it was an appropriate time and I was like, hey, man, I dropped the ball.

Speaker 1: 20:25

As a leader, I dropped the ball. This is on me. Where are my lessons? I'm not looking on the other side and I'm not going to be bitter about the other person, this or that. Where did I drop the ball? And I think a lot of that is missing in today's world as it pertains especially with the younger generations. Look, and I can tell you, I'm 45 years old, so I've read a lot of books, have a lot of experience in life and this is what I've learned, that you know works for me. That's how I've gotten better and I've learned that works for me. That's how I've gotten better and I've expanded.

Speaker 2: 20:58

I want to touch on something you said, being that this is really trying to touch on empowering others. I reached a place in my personal life when I came to the point where I realize I play a part in every problem that I have in my life, and it didn't become about fault and blame, it just became a place of empowerment for me, Because then you know what you could shift, and then you could stop looking at everybody else and what they did and just focus on yourself. So if we all did that a little more, think about the beauty you could create in the world, because then we would just be having this inward experience of you know, this person left my company. How could I adjust for the next time? You know, maybe I could have a conversation, Maybe they'll want to come back, Maybe it'll be like you know. I know this happened.

Speaker 2: 21:59

You know there's so many different ways this could come in that we could achieve harmony. You know I also come from the place too, at relationships outside of abuse. Of course, Not everything's always like they're your ex for a reason. Don't take them back. Not everything in life is so clear cut like that Black and white. Yeah, that's right 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1: 22:18

There's a lot of grays. Not everything in life is so clear cut like that Black and white. Yeah, that's right, 100%, 100%, there's a lot of grays. I think that, as it pertains to areas in your life that are black and white, I was having a conversation in another podcast, another guest I had, and I said you know, we need to be flexible in our thinking. Right, we need to be flexible in our thinking, but we need to be stubborn in our thinking. Right, we need to be flexible in our thinking, but we need to be stubborn in our value and what in our purpose and what we stand for. So, hey, I'm, I'm, I'm flexible to having a conversation with you on a different perspective. Like, hey, let's, I'm open, let's have a conversation, let me, let me, let me. I can learn something. Where I'm not flexible is on what I stand for as a man. My purpose like this is my purpose, my purpose is to empower others and to to help others become better, as well as me become better. Right, that's why I have this podcast. I want to empower people. I'm not flexible with that. That's my purpose. That is who I am and that's my essence. That's not up for negotiation, it's not up for sale, right? My values integrity, right, honesty these are my top values, right? Love, compassion, empathy these are my values, not up for negotiations.

Speaker 1: 23:31

I'm an entrepreneur, I like making money, not up for negotiations, and I'm not going to be ashamed. I don't care what room or where I'm in, I like to make money. It is what it is. I'm a real estate guy. I like doing business. What room or where I'm in, I like to make money. It is what it is. I'm a real estate guy. I like, I like. I like. I like doing business. This is what I like to do. I'm not apologetic for that. There's certain things that I'm just not gonna be apologetic. But if we're talking about, hey, there's this view or this thing, let's. I'm open to having a conversation. I want to learn. I do want to learn your perspective. Maybe I'm seeing something wrong in my life, maybe there's something missing. Maybe there's that ability to be flexible in your life, knowing where to be flexible and knowing where to be stubborn in your life. Does that?

Speaker 2: 24:12

make sense. That's going to renegotiate those standards as you see them evolve, because new experiences could be, like you know, um, empathy was important to me. Now this is even more important to me as I've come to learn this and experience this. But that's going to be you as a self-actualized individual. Yes, and only you. Yeah, and I think that's what's important. And then, when it comes to relationships, I think what people need to learn and what you role model for yourself is that you set this and no one else could set this. So when we're getting into partnerships, we need to have a standard, because I think this is what's missing. So sometimes we try to conform to other people's values based on our need for partnership, and that's something that's going to work out over time. It may work out in the beginning, but when we're self-sacrificing, it's leading to doom and resentment down the road.

Speaker 1: 25:16

Yes, yes and yes. I want to ask you along those lines of standards. You know, I see a lot of videos online where a lot of young ladies are like, hey, my man needs to make six figures, so she makes six figures, and my man needs to make six figures. Now, ladies, I want to just give you a quick education, real quick, on figures. The average household income in the United States makes $70,000 a year. Average household income Household income ladies All right. Household income ladies right when you say, um, when when you hear a lady say he needs to make six figure? So I saw an interview. I'll share this with you.

Speaker 2: 26:07

I'd love to get your feedback on it right, because this is about the dating world girl says, hey, my guy needs to make six figures.

Speaker 1: 26:12

And and she said and the guy asked her well, if, if he doesn't make, so why does he need to make six figures? And she said, if he doesn't make six figures, then he can't provide for me, then he can't, um, he can't be, uh, he can't provide for me, he can't protect me and he needs to make more than me. Um, and he can't love me properly or something like that. If he doesn't make this money and, um, I like to get, I like to get your. If he doesn't make this amount of money, he needs to be in my level or above for me to feel like he's up to my standard. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 26:55

a lot of times you're going to ask me questions like this and I'm always going to give a lot of times the same answer yes and no. Okay, yes and no at the same time, and I'll tell you why. Elaborate. But there's going to be situations where that might hold true, right, and it's always going to depend on where this and I'll speak for the females are on their life. Okay, so perhaps you know we're talking to a female. I'm going to say maybe she's making $350,000 a year, she has a certain lifestyle she's trying to maintain, she wants to take certain types of trips and she needs, you know, a partner that's going to be able to live up to this standard. And the no to that part is does he need to make $350,000? No, he could make less and still equally contribute to a similar lifestyle, or he can make slightly more.

Speaker 2: 27:50

I think, ultimately, there's a lot of females out there and I won't speak for them all, because not all of them subscribe to this but that want to feel provided for. Not all of them, you know, subscribe to this but that want to feel provided for. But what if there was a guy out there that made, let's say, 70,000, I'll go with your number that showered you with gifts that were so meaningful but like inexpensive, and every morning you woke up and you had, like I don't know, a little card on your bed with this well thought out note and you know grocery rates were paid for and he knew how to pay the bills or whatever the situation was. So what I would tell a female that's saying that, like, be careful what you close yourself off to. And I'm also curious what the age of this female would be, because if it's someone on the younger side, I would question why couldn't your man grow into this? Like the fact on how old you are.

Speaker 1: 28:51

Yes, these are. This particular female was like 24, 25 or something, right, young lady. Right, she was a young lady, young lady, right, this is a young lady. And my advice always to young women that say things like this and I'm going to say it here is that is if you're a young lady, look, if you're 20 years old, you're 21 years old. You're not going to find a dude making 300 000. Your age, it's very on. You see him on instagram. A lot of that shit is showboating, just bullshit, right, it's very unlikely that you're going to find they're out there, and I'm saying they're not, but it's very unlikely.

Speaker 1: 29:25

I don't know if you've read the book John Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. No, I haven't. I've heard of the book. It's a great book about money and success mindset. But anyways, napoleon Hill, in this book he he talks about ladies, take note. He talks about a man doesn't hit his stride really like his stride, like when he gets to really know himself until he reaches the age of 40. Um, and it's. It's funny because my wife the other day she saw some posts online on Instagram and she says so, you just matured. And I was like what in the world are you talking about? She was like that makes sense. She saw some post, uh, something that showed up in her feed about men mature, really mature, like in the age of 35 or like when they really like find who they are. Um, and she was like that makes sense. I had to deal with all those years of all your dumb stuff, right, all your maturity that makes sense, there is some science behind this.

Speaker 2: 30:27

So your prefrontal cortex of your brain, which is in charge of like decision making and your ability to like anticipate the consequences of your actions, it actually develops later in men than in women. Yeah, so there is a little bit of science to this that men could emotionally mature later than some females. Yeah, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1: 30:49

That makes a lot of sense, so, anyway.

Speaker 1: 30:51

So my point that I was going to I was going to shed the light I wanted to shed on young ladies is find a young man, and I think the most important thing for ladies is, if you find a young man your age because, look, you're going to find a you might find a 45 year old guy that's killing it, right, he's in a stride, he's killing it, he's at the top of his game, right, the top of his career, killing it, right.

Speaker 1: 31:11

But you, the problem is you're not going to have a lot of things in common with that guy, right, that guy's thinking, listening to his hip hop music in the nineties and you're wanting to talk about whatever the music is today, and there's just going to be a disconnect just in conversations. It just is what it is, right, the challenge, what I would recommend, is find a young man that has. You want a guy that makes 300,000, like, just like you said, john, right, that makes this. Why don't you find a guy that has the ambition that you $300,000, just like you said, john, that makes this. Why don't you find a guy that has the ambition that you believe in and you can both grow into that together and ride that together.

Speaker 2: 31:48

The sad truth or the ugly truth. What I'll tell you is that most people are not always looking for relationships that are partnerships or that are based out of love. So there are different motivating factors onto why people are getting out of relationships. So I'm going to keep it with traditional male female relationships relationships. So if a man's too consumed with the physical image of a woman, there may be a rejection wound. We're still living out that I have to have the next, you know the next beauty like the next and where we're just consumed with beauty and nothing else and it just like what's my arm candy, what's my arm candy.

Speaker 2: 32:40

And it could be with women that are just really consumed with the ability of a man to provide and what they could get financially is that there could be some kind of abandonment or the inability to provide or what they didn't receive that they're, that's what they're leading with. So until the work is done and those wounds are resolved, are they not going to be at the place where they could say I'm ready for love, to show up emotionally and be there and get to know someone on a deep level and say like I want to see you cry, I want to see you be vulnerable. I want to give my heart and be vulnerable with you and know your deep in and out and not worry about, like all this dark stuff that I don't even know at this point, I'm probably aware of and I'm trying that's what I'm trying to get out of the relationship.

Speaker 2: 33:32

Yeah, dating, after hurting the chances of millennials engines of yours finding a lasting relationship if we stay stuck in this loop of next, next, next, yes, or we get and I don't think we really touched on this caught in this bitterness cycle that comes from the apps. Tell me about it. What do you mean? Yeah, so what I'm seeing, too, from the apps is, with all this excess right, I hear a lot about, oh, I'm ghosted. No one's looking for anything serious. Everyone's looking for the next best thing.

Speaker 2: 34:25

But what we're missing in this is that, through all this excess, is that we don't really know what's going on with these people. So we don't know who's on there just looking for attention. We don't know who was on there and talking to other people and have gotten to different levels with different people. So, for instance, like if I've matched with someone and I've like been talking with them for a few days, I could have been going on a few dates with somebody else and then that got serious and I just didn't say anything because I've only been messaging with that person. And then, once you're upwards to like talking to, I don't know, upwards of like double digits, even more people, like the accountability to tell everyone where you're at in your dating process lessons, which is sad, but it's also real.

Speaker 1: 35:16

What do you like by that it? Your prospect lessons? Tell me, elaborate on that. What do you mean by that it?

Speaker 2: 35:21

your prospect lessons? Tell me, elaborate on that. What do you mean by that? Yeah, so like, imagine, imagine this If you pull up your phone right now and go to your text threads, imagine all this just being people that you were talking to off an app, now take that and take five out of there and imagine those are people that you were talking to off the app.

Speaker 2: 35:46

Now reduce that and take maybe three and those are the people you were actually dating. So you see how the excess is. So, like the people that were in your text threads, are you going to go through each of those and be like, oh well, I'm dating three of these, and then this is what? Like, I don't think that level of communication is happening and I don't know if, morally, it should be happening at this point, because it's just like a message on a dating app. Does that make sense? Yeah, that does make sense. That does make sense.

Speaker 2: 36:16

So I I think a lot of people are taking a lot of this personal where you just don't know where people are at in their circumstances. So if you're on the app and you didn't get off that app with someone and that conversation, you know, went stale, maybe they're just dating somebody else. Or if you didn't even get on a date with someone and that conversation went stale, maybe they moved on to the next level. Or if it's only been a first date, maybe it was a great first date, maybe they had seven dates with somebody else and now they're official.

Speaker 1: 36:46

But I think, well, a lot of this is making a lot of people bitter when things don't go a certain direction wow, a lot to unpack there, man, right, there's a lot to unpack there, because you know what's the solution, what is the solution for this generation, you know. Let me ask you this question Is there anything out there these days? I don't know, but I've been dating game for such a long time. I wouldn't know how to date right now if I. I don't think I would if I hadn't what? What is there? Is there anything out there in these days where people are just like like a dating type of like hey, we're, we're hosting this thing for singles and and you just go meet people in real life, like I'm with this guy? Right, I'm a guy that likes I believe I'm going to say it here I think social media is full of crap.

Speaker 1: 37:52

I see these women on social media and I am zero impressed. Ladies, I want you to know that a guy like me is zero impressed with your tights and zero impressed Because I know what. I've seen it. I've seen it with realtors. I'm a real estate guy, so I've seen it with realtors. They put their pictures and you see their pictures on their thing. You ever seen that with a realtor? They give you this beautiful picture and then you meet them in real life. We're like what? This a realtor. They give you this beautiful picture and then you meet them in real life.

Speaker 1: 38:24

We're like what? This is the same person. That's not the same person. That's here so like. It's so full of it, like there's. No, I'm this, I need, I like to be, I like to feel the energy of the person. I like to see how they, how they carry themselves. I like to see how they speak. I like to see their mannerism. I'm, I'm this personal person to person, right hand to hand, combat. Um, so is there anything out there where people are like, get that experience like other than the app, like they could just get out of the app and let me just go to this place and just just kind of hang out with people. Man, they just just hang out with other people and just be people, of course, like like, is there things like that for dating for single people? Talk to us about that.

Speaker 2: 39:03

Yeah, so there's still speed dating events out there. There's matchmakers still out there. There's meetup events for singles. You know meetupcom is still around, where you know they host events. There's travel things for singles. So there's still so many opportunities to meet in person and you know there's still, you know, social events and there's still the opportunity to, you know, reach out to your network of friends and go hey, do you know any one single? Fix me up, got it? Yeah, none of that has died out. Yeah, is that?

Speaker 1: 39:35

how people just automatically is that is that happening much these days?

Speaker 2: 39:41

I wish it. I some of the earlier things are, but you know what? I think we live in such a culture where everyone wants to do what everyone else is doing. So we just lean on everyone's on the dating apps and that's what we do. But that doesn't mean just because everyone else is doing something we have to do it. So do again. This is why I always stress like if anyone's ever asked me like what's the one secret to life, it's, you know, shut down your blinds, get off the phone, close your eyes and do what works best for you. So if dating apps don't feel good to you, don't do it. Go outside for a look and if you see a pretty girl, go say hello to her yeah, yeah, I'll talk to her.

Speaker 1: 40:24

Yeah, is the? Um? I got a few few few more questions for you. Has the concept of romance become less important in the age of instant gratification, right when the swipe right, swipe left era?

Speaker 2: 40:44

I don't think so, not in my opinion. I still think romance is still there. I'm just curious if maybe commitment is less, so maybe people are being more romantic with other people commitment is less meaning.

Speaker 1: 41:09

What exactly meaning? Um, I am not, you know. Or that person is not committed to the relationship and wants to have three, four, five other people in the pipeline.

Speaker 2: 41:13

What do you mean? Well, I guess it would help me understand, like what. Your definition of romance is right. So is it the courting process romance? Like what is? What does that?

Speaker 1: 41:23

look like. That's a good question. That's a good question. Yeah, let's go with that. Let's go with the, the romance part of it, the hey, let's have a. Let's, let me take you on, you know, let's have this dinner on on a boat, or let me take you to this hike in this beautiful view and we can have a picnic there with sandwiches and just just like the simple things in life.

Speaker 1: 41:48

You know, because everyone's from my conversations around this topic is that people have expectations right On these dating apps. If they don't look right or I have, I'm not on there. So I'm just saying from the people I talk to, right, they don't look right or they don't say certain things, or they don't do certain things a certain way. I just don't think that there's a process to really get to gauge and know the other person. I don't think you could really by a picture and words, 33-year-old female likes hiking this or that. I could look at that person. Let's say right, and you can say, yeah, this person sounds interesting, but then you meet them and their energy's off. The way they deliver is off. You know what I mean. It's like you're not connecting with that person. You don't get to have that intimate, you're not connecting with that person. You don't get to have that intimate connection with that person on a screen.

Speaker 2: 42:53

That's. You know, that's what I mean by romance. Yeah, so I feel like going based on what you're saying is based on kind of what I was saying earlier, where intimacy is kind of dying out, like that depth of connection I think, yeah, that is that is harder to find nowadays, because I think one people are scared to go there, but I also think that two people don't know how to go there. You know, I think we're living these lives that, like are based on social media and real life, like I, I, I I spoke about this before but one thing I'm such a strong opponent of, especially on these dating apps, is you should not be getting on off a dating app to get on another app. So it shouldn't be like let me get your instagram.

Speaker 2: 43:40

Like why would you do that? You're moving from one app to another. Now it should be phone number. If you're getting to know this person on another level. It's almost just another opportunity to look at more pictures and another portrayal of this person's life versus getting to know them on a deeper level, and I don't think anyone really understands sometimes the significance of how bad this this is, but it's such a common practice nowadays and it's really concerning for me as a provider that I see it happening more and more, or like even the way people are adverse to talk on the phone. I think you know how do you have such a substantial conversation via text.

Speaker 1: 44:28

You can't.

Speaker 2: 44:29

You can't, you're right, yeah, you can't. And getting to know someone like you know, if you want, like a real fruitful, intimate relationship, like you got to pick up the phone, you got to get in person, like you have to, you know, show parts of yourself that make you uncomfortable, like there is an uncomfortability there and a part of exploration you know to develop that real intimate, true connection.

Speaker 1: 45:11

So what's the one strategy that you would share with a single person out there right now as a coach, right as a relationship coach? What's the one strategy that you would share with someone out there for modern age, with the apps and everything we just unpacked, that wants to find their person, their true love? And they just are saying exactly what you said there's no intimacy. The swipe right, the swipe left. It's challenging, it's this and that. Let's do one thing that you're telling them they can start to do to get on the journey to finding that.

Speaker 2: 45:42

Yeah, so I'm going to do a column a person and a column B person, sure. So column a is the person that, like you, haven't been on a date in years. Get out there, be messy to just get out there. So start exploring things, because I think there's some people that are just so scared to get out there, ask the questions, make the mistakes, scared to get out there. Ask the questions, make the mistakes. It's okay. If you don't do anything, you're never going to get it. So you really need to get out there. Show parts of yourself you've never shown, take it in. Also, reflect on what's happened, like do I like you know asking what you're looking for on the first date? Do I like paying? Do I like getting paid for Whatever these things look like for you? Start setting that template for what a relationship looks like early on by exploring and experimenting. That's column A right, and really take some time to go inside.

Speaker 2: 46:43

You know there's this website. It's called bestselfco or com. They have certain decks, like one of them I had bought for a client Core values. There's like a list of 150 of them. Do something like this Take out that deck. There'll be be core values such as trustworthiness, authenticity. Make a pile of the ones that resonate with you, make a pile of the ones that don't, and keep going and redefining those piles to see what holds true to you, and then do that for your future partner. Start doing these things for yourself, that you start getting a clear vision of who you are, because you're too distracted by the outside world. So what I would say for the person in column B is take some time to go inside and then start reflecting on your past relationships. What worked, what didn't work, what patterns did you see reemerging? If you haven't been in therapy or you haven't worked with any kind of coach, this may be the time to start doing so as well, for both those people.

Speaker 1: 47:54

That's good advice, really sound advice. So is there anything that we didn't cover, that we should have covered, that you think would have brought a tremendous amount of value to the listeners and myself?

Speaker 2: 48:10

The last thing I would want to say is we touched on it a little bit when you talked about openness. As much as we're going inside and exploring our own idea of what we want, part of that process and it's an internal process also open yourself up and explore other perspectives. So what does that look like? What does the other person's process look like? This is going to help you in conflict, especially if you have this stubbornness streak that you can't break. You know, because oftentimes I see a lot of people struggling in conflict where we can't, you know, empathize with others. See other people's perspectives.

Speaker 2: 48:56

Everyone has wronged us, not everything's personal in life. So experiment with like ownership and like how you contributed to the problem which we've touched on, but like openness to like what could have been going on for the other person and any of these issues that could have been transpiring. And I say this like even when I touched on this with all these other options that are out there on the dating apps what could they have gone on? They could have been interested in me, but they could have been, you know, moving towards something serious with somebody else. So I say this so that we're not signing all this meaning that, like I'm not worthy of being dated because that's not something we want to move forward with when we're trying to get in a relationship, move forward with when we're trying to get in a relationship, and all this excess, while these options and opportunities are good for us, we have to be able to like disconnect from that and not disconnect from this, and not assign it meeting to like demoralize us or say that we're not worthy of a relationship amazing, amazing.

Speaker 1: 50:00

If people wanted to connect with you, john, where do they find you? They wanted to maybe bring you on as a coach. They like what they heard. They like what you're saying. They wanted to connect with you on on social how and where.

Speaker 2: 50:13

Yeah, you can visit me on my website, the relationship prescribercom, and then on social. I had just changed my handle.

Speaker 1: 50:20

Uh, dr Underscore Dr underscore John Diogo, p-e-o-c-a D-E-O-C-A Yep Perfect, thank you, sir, really appreciate it. It was a pleasure having you on today and having this important discussion that I think it's noteworthy of having, as many people are struggling with this issue, a lot of single people. I think the art of I'm just going to go ahead and say it we're losing emotional intelligence as a whole day. Years ago, maybe eight years ago, my oldest son he was maybe 21 or 22 and I said one of my kids I can't remember which one of my sons, my two sons, and I said, hey, um, so you, we were somewhere I think we were on vacation or something and I saw that he was kind of pre-gaming a girl and I was like, hey, so did you get those digits right? Messing with him? We used to do it right. We used to get the digits right and call the girl. He was like daddy, they laughed at me, right, my kids started laughing at me. They were like dad, we don't do that anymore.

Speaker 1: 51:34

We, we, we get each other, we follow each other and that's how we talk. And I'm like, oh my gosh, man, you guys like you guys. What's up with the connection, the human connection? Let's have a conversation, let's get to know each other, you know, like this. So I think I think we're losing. We're losing a lot of that with the way we communicate with texts and and all of that stuff. So thank you, thank you, my friend, for coming on as you hear my dogs going happy here. Thank you for coming on. Appreciate you, john, thank you very much, sir.

Speaker 2: 52:08

No, thanks so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.