Leadership in the Four-Gen Workplace with Clint Pulver

For the first time in our history, we work in a four-generation workplace alongside baby boomers, Generation X, millennials and Generation Z employees.

On this episode, Clint Pulver — the Undercover Millennial — discusses what it looks like to have success managing and leading such a diverse workforce.

We’re also giving away copies of Clint’s new book, I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create Organizations Their People Never Want to Leave. If you’re a client of Leading With Nice, you’re already getting a copy. But if you’d like one, visit our website and sign up for our weekly leadership email. We’ll be giving away copies each week! 

Transcript

Clint Pulver:
No employee ever talked to me and said, "I work here because my manager just runs a great meeting." Nobody said that. Nobody said that. What they talked about were the moments where a manager got to the part about them, the moments where they became an advocate, they helped them grow in the company. When an employee hated their job, they talked about the manager. When an employee loved their job, they talked about the mentor. How people experience you and how they experience themselves when they're with you matters. And it was a beautiful thing to see through the lens of an employee.

Mathieu Yuill:
Hey, good day. And welcome to the Leading With Nice interview series. My name is Matthew Yuill, and we want to help you inspire others, build loyalty and get results. Now, today I am excited for our guest. I came across him, I think I was like down a YouTube rabbit hole, probably like Best of Whose Line Is It Anyway clips or something totally unrelated, and I saw this video. And if you've listened to the show, you know one of the areas we've explored is how do we operate in a four gen workplace? What makes somebody from a Boomer generation different from the Millennial generation? Where's there similarities?

Mathieu Yuill:
Anyhow, so YouTube probably knowing that I was into that and knowing that I loved great content that was engaging, showed me a video from Clint Pulver, and we're going to get into a lot of it. He really is a specialist in helping businesses understand how to get the most out of their employees. And I reached out to him and asked him to come on the show. And if you listen regularly, you know we're based in Toronto, Canada. Clint is in Utah. So man, like we're recording at 1:00 in the afternoon, which is what I guess 3:00 AM Mountain Time. I don't know, but it's early. So, Clint, welcome and thanks for coming on, man.

Clint Pulver:
Hey, thanks, man. I appreciate it, dude. This is an honor for me to be on the show and I'm excited to talk about things that we both love.

Mathieu Yuill:
Now, before we get, right off the bat, so if you're listening at home as a lot of us are right now, it's always great to be able to have a resource up. So Clint, right off the bat, tell us what your website is so that if you're listening and you want to pull it up and just kind of track along and look, you can see the website.

Clint Pulver:
Yeah. So the website is clintpulver.com.

Mathieu Yuill:
And if you search on YouTube, he has a great YouTube channel as well. We'll talk a bit about that later on. When I first came across you, I was really inspired by what I would call is your origin story. I know we often use that terminology for superheroes, but it really is kind of like the genesis, I believe, of how you came to be who you are and what you believe in and speak about. And that is a story of a teacher who had a huge impact on you, Mr. Jensen. Can you tell us the story of what Mr. Jensen did and how that still plays out in your life and work today?

Clint Pulver:
Yeah. I was the kid in school that just had a hard time sitting still. I would just move constantly. I would tap things. I just, I had to move. It's still hard for me to sit still. And obviously, if you're tapping on things and in the classroom setting, that's fairly annoying and all the other kids called me the Twitter. I got nicknamed the Tapper because I just couldn't sit still. And all the other teachers would constantly tell me to stop, stop moving, stop tapping, stop hitting things. Until one day, I had a specific educator and his name was Mr. Jensen. And he looked at me as I was tapping in class. And he said, "Young man, in the back." He said, "Clint, I need to see you after class. We're going to have a conversation."

Clint Pulver:
And I'm thinking, "All right. This is it. I'm getting kicked out of school as a ten-year-old." And all the other kids are like, "Oh man, you are going to die." No one wants to stay after class with the teacher. The bell rings, class dismissed, everybody leaves and it's a completely empty room minus me and Mr. Jensen.

Clint Pulver:
And he goes to the back and he sits me down and he says, "Listen, you're kind of the kid that's on the list. I know everybody teases you. You get distracted. You constantly tap in everyone else's class. You tap in my class." He said, "Everyone sees this problem of your inability to sit still."

Clint Pulver:
He said, "I've watched you though. It's crazy. You'll start writing with your right hand and then you'll tap with your left hand. And then you'll switch the pen over to your left hand and you'll start writing. And then, all of a sudden you'll start tapping with your right hand." And he looked at me and he said, "Clint, you're ambidextrous." And I said, "No, I'm Presbyterian." He said, "No, that's not what it means." He said, "No, no, no. No. It doesn't mean that."

Clint Pulver:
He said, "Can you tap your head and rub your belly?" And I said, "Yeah." And I gave it a go. I could do it without thinking. And then he said, "Now, switch it." He said, "Can you rub your head and then tap your belly?" And literally back and forth without even thinking about it, I could do it. And he sat back in his chair and he looked at me and he smiled. And he said, "I don't think you're a problem. I just think you're a drummer." And I'm someone that always, I believed in moments. I'm a big fan of creating moments in the lives of other people.

Clint Pulver:
We don't remember days. We remember moments because in this moment, Mr. Jensen, the old teacher, he leaned back in his desk and he opened up the top drawer and he reached inside and he took out my very first pair of drumsticks, my very first pair. And then he put them in my hands, and he said, "Listen," he said, "Clint, I got these for you. And I have no idea what's going to happen, but I just want you to keep them in your hands. Just learn and practice and just see what happens. Just keep them in your hands."

Clint Pulver:
And that was 22 years ago. And I can honestly sit here today and 22 years ago, literally to this exact moment, I have tried my best to keep my promise to Mr. Jensen. And for the last 22 years, I've had the opportunity to tour and record all over the world as a professional drummer. I've played at some amazing venues with incredible artists. I've been on America's Got Talent. My whole college education was paid for with music scholarships. I graduated debt-free from college, all from drumming.

Clint Pulver:
And I don't say all those things to go, "Wow, good for you, Clint," or, "Wow, what a list of accolades." The reason I tell you that is because of one person, one person who decided to see an opportunity, not a problem. One person who decided to advocate as much as they developed and they created a moment and that moment changed my life story.

Mathieu Yuill:
Well, what Mr. Jensen did actually wasn't that hard. And you spoke about creating moments so they aren't magic or happenstance. It isn't overly complicated. And where you are uniquely gifted is, and we talked about this before we started recording that you have a lot of background in film, and so it's clear you have a high aptitude for telling a great story, a story well-told. But you don't need to [inaudible 00:07:39] have that to create moments. And so I'd like for you to speak just for a moment to those in management, maybe director roles, business owners, CEOs, nonprofit, executive directors, what are maybe some checklists or some things they can see or recognize that they can identify their own potential Mr. Jensen moments for those who report to them.

Clint Pulver:
Yeah. So just a little bit of background into kind of my, any sense of, I guess, credibility to talk about this. For the last, almost five years, I've worked as the Undercover Millennial. It's kind of like Undercover Boss without the makeup. And I go undercover into organizations as a millennial who's looking for a job. And I walk up to the employees that I see and I just say, "I'm just thinking about applying here. What's it like to work at this company?"

Clint Pulver:
And then they always get quiet. Everybody kind of looks around. It feels like an illegal drug exchange. And then they tell me everything, everything, the good, the bad, who they love, who they don't love because I'm not a survey. I'm not a one-on-one management meeting. I'm just another millennial. And we created this environment where employees could give us honesty. They didn't know their story was being heard. And so it helped to create this moment where they really could speak their truth. And we have done that for 180 organizations now. And we have interviewed thousands of employees undercover.

Clint Pulver:
And the magic of the research was not only when an employee was dissatisfied with their job. The magic of the research was when an employee, when I would walk up to them and say, "What's it like to work here?" And they would respond with, "I love it here. I love it here. I love, I love, I love what we do. I love my manager. I love our culture. I love, I mean, it feels like a family." And then the reasons behind how great leaders were creating that type of response in their people consistently in an organization and it was an amazing thing to see.

Clint Pulver:
And that's why we titled our new book, I Love It Here: How Great Leaders Create Organizations Their People Never Want to Leave. So, Matt, I just gave that little bit of backstory because what we have seen when how great leaders become Mr. Jensen's, they really do get incredibly good at creating moments. That's what employees talk about. No employee ever talked to me and said, "I work here because my manager just runs a great meeting." Or, "I work here because the leadership, the CEO, the way he just can think and that's why I stay here." Nobody said that. Nobody said that.

Clint Pulver:
What they talked about were the moments where a manager got to the part about them. The moments like what Mr. Jensen created in my life. The moments where they became an advocate, they help them grow in the company, they help to mentor them, not just manage them. When an employee hated their job, they talked about the manager. When an employee loved their job, they talked about the mentor. Mentorship versus management was one of the most iconic things that we discovered in our research.

Clint Pulver:
And when you can become a Mr. Jensen, when you can become the person where people go, "You are the person that connects me to my dreams. I like myself best because I'm with you," how people experience you and how they experience themselves when they're with you matters. And it was a beautiful thing to see through the lens of an employee.

Mathieu Yuill:
I believe you've developed like a five-

Clint Pulver:
Yeah, yeah, five C's. We have Five C's of Mentorship.

Mathieu Yuill:
Can you share that with us?

Clint Pulver:
Yeah, totally. When we would find an iconic individual that was creating and yielding loyalty from a massive amount of employees, I would go undercover and I'd say, "But why? Why do you work here?" And they would say, "Susie. I work here because of Susie." And then I go to the next employee. "Okay, you love your job. Why?" "Susie. I work here because of Susie." "Well, who is Susie? What is making Susie so impactful in your life?"

Clint Pulver:
I would have people that would leave another job. When Susie transferred, they would leave a job that was less pay. It was less prestige. It was a farther drive in the morning of longer commute and they would follow Susie to her new position. That type of loyalty happened. And it's something we don't see very often in the workplace today.

Clint Pulver:
And when I found these leaders, these Susie's, the Mr. Jensen's, the mentors, I interviewed them. I talked to them. I said, "I've got to figure out what they're doing. What makes Susie so influential?" And we narrowed it down to five C's and I call them the Five C's of Mentorship. If you have had anybody in your life, Matt, that has been a mentor to you, I guarantee you they possessed these five C's. And then before I tell you these five C's, I also want to preface this with a mentor is something that has to be earned. You can not be given the title of a mentor.

Mathieu Yuill:
That's like my biggest pet peeves is when I see on LinkedIn, somebody on their job description, like mentor. I'm like, "What?"

Clint Pulver:
Yeah, yeah.

Mathieu Yuill:
I don't think you can just declare that.

Clint Pulver:
Exactly. You can't. True mentorship can not just be a blanket statement. It has to be earned. And that's why it's so powerful. Great leadership, when it's done in a voluntary state, when somebody is volunteering their will to choose to listen to you, to choose to do what you say, that is powerful. They're not being forced to. They're not doing it out of fear. They're not being controlled to. They're not doing it because they're going to get laid off the next day, or they're going to get fired. They're not doing it because of that. They're doing it because they voluntarily want to. And that's why these five C's are so important.

Clint Pulver:
So, here we go. So the first C is confidence. Confidence. These mentors had a sense of confidence that exuded trust. Confidence is a mindset. They were confident in themselves. They were confident in their ability to get somebody to where they wanted them to go.

Clint Pulver:
Also, where that person wanted to go themselves. You do not become the mentor until the mentee invites you into their heart. If you are confident in your ability to do that, it matters in this equation. Confidence is number one.

Clint Pulver:
Number two was credibility. That mentor in some way, shape or form had a credible history, a resume that exuded trust, that exuded the reason to go, "Okay, all right. You're worth listening to." For example, if you're a car dealership manager and you're managing the sales of an organization, all of those sales reps want to know is as the manager, "Have you ever sold a car before? What's your background? What's your history? How are you credible?"

Clint Pulver:
And then number three was competence, competence, competence, competence. The ability to prove your merit through being a practitioner, not just a theorist. You might know everything about the game of basketball, but can you actually get out and shoot a hoop? Can you perform the thing in which you are training somebody to do? Can you actually live and breathe what it is that you're teaching others to do? Are you a practitioner? Are you competent in your ability to help people get where they want to go?

Clint Pulver:
And then the fourth C was candor, candor, the ability to create relationships so strong that honesty could exist. They had this ability. It's like the bank account theory. They were consistently making deposits of trust and positive connection, and that allowed them to make withdrawals. They got to the part about the person, that person understood that they were an advocate, not just a boss, they had their best interest at heart, but it also created a relationship where they could have honest conversations. And instead of honesty being looked at as criticism or a drag, honesty was looked at as a beautiful experience where employees would almost seek out the honesty, because again, you're the mentor. You're not just the boss. No, you're there to help me get to where I want to go. So tell me what I need to do to be better. Tell me what I need to do to perform better. Candidness. Having candid conversations was a critical part of good mentorship.

Clint Pulver:
And then the last C is caring, the ability to just truly care for an individual. When people knew that they were seen, they were heard, they were valued, but they were truly cared for in who they were and who they could become and that that person had a vested interest in them, it was a powerful thing. So those five C's, confidence, credibility, competence, candor, and the ability to care.

Mathieu Yuill:
While Clint was speaking, I went on Amazon. And if you're a client of Leading With Nice, you're going to get a copy of this book. It comes out April 13th here in Canada. So I've ordered a copy for you already. And I think, Clinton, I will talk after this show and I will see about ordering a bunch that if you're listening to the show and you want a copy, we'll figure out a way to give away a handful of them. So we'll talk after the show because it looks amazing. You can read about the book on his website and it's listed on Amazon right now, as well, too, for those of you listening.

Mathieu Yuill:
Man, this happens all the time where I want to do a full hour just on one of those five, which I'm sure you could do as well, too. That is amazing. And those five things, if you're doing them, it's not about necessarily manufacturing a moment. They will happen and present themselves to you naturally.

Clint Pulver:
Absolutely. And that's an important aspect in good management and in good leadership is the realization that you can't change anybody. And we try to in management like, "Oh, you better perform, or you're going to lose your job." Or, "You perform, or I'm going to send you home," or, "I'm going to cut your pay." Or I don't know, we use these fear-based tactics to control and to manipulate people, But good mentors knew that they could not control another person. All they could control was themselves. And that's why again, they became that person by controlling their ability to showcase how they could connect others to their dreams. And they created an environment where voluntarily people chose to follow them.

Mathieu Yuill:
If you want to see this kind of an action, the Undercover Millennial and what it looks like, Clint has a great video, a couple of videos on his channel where the hat goes on backwards, the flannel shirt with the jeans and a pen with a video camera in it. And he literally just goes into stores, legit, like an Undercover Millennial, and just has conversations with the staff. It just really is a unique approach and very cool.

Mathieu Yuill:
But Millennials actually make up the largest portion of our four gen workforce that we're in today. Amongst Boomers, Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z, they're the biggest group so there's more of them than any others. So do we need like an Undercover Gen Z then?

Clint Pulver:
Yeah.

Mathieu Yuill:
Because one of the things I remember when I used to work in education at a college, and I remember as I left there was just when the first Millennials were coming into college. And my coworkers were like, "Oh, they're so entitled. They want things handed to them." And, "Oh, the future of our workforce is going to be horrible." Well, now these Millennials are CEOs, they're directors, they're managers, and the horror stories did not come true. Not that it hasn't had its challenges. So what now? What now? Do we still need work in this arena or do we need to move to a new generation? Tell me.

Clint Pulver:
We need to disregard generations altogether. And that's a bold statement, but I mean that more than anything. Out of all of my research, again, it's 10,000 plus employees and that's Gen Z Millennials, Boomers, Gen Y, it doesn't matter. I have interviewed the gamut of everybody and it's so boggling to me. It's so funny almost. Baby Boomers hated Gen Y. "Dang hippies, hippies. The hippies are going to ruin the world." And now we said the same thing about Millennials, "Entitled, lazy. All they want to do is have fun and purpose, and they want beanbag chairs and ping pong tables everywhere." And now that generation is starting to do it to the next, and we're starting to label and create these stereotypes that are just, it's a fallacy.

Clint Pulver:
And it drives me insane because people in our industry now are the ones that are doing this. It's speakers. It's these self-proclaimed experts. It's a marketing ploy. Here's the thing. People have grown up in different times in the different parts of the world and so obviously that would skew their perception. But I still believe that people are people and that when we start treating employees as individuals and not as a generation, that's how we win.

Clint Pulver:
I have found Millennials that are entitled. They're lazy. They want everything given to them. I've seen that. But I have also seen Millennials that are incredibly loyal, hardworking, dedicated, willing to earn it individuals. We cannot put millions of people in a generational stereotype, in a box, based off of the year they were born. Some Millennials grew up in a different life in a world than I grew up in as a Millennial. So therefore, their perspective is going to be different and the same applies to every single generation.

Clint Pulver:
So when a speaker or somebody jumps on and they write an article for Forbes or a book about how to market to the Gen Z staff and how to retain your Millennials, it's just unfortunate because there is no quick hack to generational leadership. It's about individual leadership. It's about getting to know your people. And that takes time. That takes effort. That takes dedication. And sometimes we're looking for this quick hack on how to retain and market to and attract a large amount of people born in a specific time period.

Clint Pulver:
But when it comes to retention and good management, good mentorship, good leadership, it is always done through individual interactions, individual time spent with those people learning about what matters to them. And when we do that and we bury the stereotype, that's when we create connection, that's what builds the foundation for good and significant moments. That's how you build an organization where people actually thrive. They don't just survive.

Mathieu Yuill:
Clint, you got to stop giving us such chunky and chewy thoughts to think about, because this happens to me all the time on these. Man, I either have to start inviting people that are not as interesting to me, or I need to be better prepared for the next question because man, I mean, I'm already thinking about what does that look like? What does it look like to do away with?

Mathieu Yuill:
Okay. One thing I want to bring it back to, and you've mentioned it. This has been a theme and a lot of when I was watching videos of yours online, often you speak about recognition. And that recognition might be traditionally what we think about it, like publicly, "Hey, congratulations to this person for doing a great job," or, "Hey, I just want to say thank you to this person for always showing up on time," whatever it is. And then sometimes it's just actually being seen, being recognized. And it's so transformative. Your own origin story demonstrates this. What are some ways employees want to be recognized today do you believe?

Clint Pulver:
Yeah. So in our interactions, when we talked about why do you stay here? What keeps you here? What do you love about the organization? And they would talk often about recognition. "They see me. I feel heard here. They really understand my needs outside of work, not just as an employee. They understand that I'm a human being outside of the workplace. I have a life outside of work."

Clint Pulver:
And there were always five different categories of when an employee talked about a way that they like to be recognized. And again, as I kind of list these, it's important to remember that all of these things need to be done individually. If you can't tell, I am a major proponent of individual leadership, not a one size fits all approach. The more individual we can make our interactions, our leadership, our thoughts, our agendas on people, not just as a collective whole, the more impactful we become.

Clint Pulver:
And so the first one was, and this is actually kind of listed in order as we go through this. Number one was vocal praise, vocal praise. It's the number one reason why people are, well, it was the number one thing that people talked about how they love to be recognized. It was also the number one thing that people wanted more of. Like, "That a boy, that a girl, good job. I saw what you did. Congratulations. Well done. Keep it up. You're doing great. Thank you for what you did." Vocal praise. The crazy thing about that is it costs $0 to do that, $0.

Clint Pulver:
And so many companies we're busy, right? We're trying to boil the ocean. There's this thing in specifically my country in America, where scaling an organization is like the ego thing. Like you are not a great business unless you are scalable. And so there's so much focus on growing and becoming bigger and not as much emphasis on individuals and creating those moments and vocal praise is number one.

Clint Pulver:
Number two is experiences. Things like, "We went axe throwing as a company. It was rad." Or they the boss knows that this specific employee loves drama, loves theater. So, he found out that there was a show in town and she's been doing so great. And she went and got tickets for her and her partner to go and watch the theater that week. "Hey, Jane, I just I appreciate what you've done. Go and have a night with you and your significant other, and go watch the show. Thanks for what you do." Experiences. It's very important.

Clint Pulver:
The next one was money. Money mattered, money mattered. An increase in pay, a bonus, a salary upgrade, an Amazon gift card for crying out loud. Money matters to people. And so that's something to never rule out.

Clint Pulver:
The next thing would be time off and flexible scheduling, the ability to, "Hey, listen, John, you've been performing really great. I know you love to go fishing. I just want to say thanks. And I want you to take, I want you to leave at 4:30 every day, and I want you to go fishing whenever you want to. Just know that your workday now ends at 4:30. Have some time. Go be with your family. Go fish, go do whatever you want to do. I appreciate what you do." Time off flexibility. It matters.

Clint Pulver:
The next one was food. Food is something that employees talked a ton about. Things like Taco Tuesdays, bringing pizza in on Fridays. Chick-fil-A Thursdays. They knew that everybody loved a certain meal and so they would cater it often, or they'd bring in cookies or things like that. And it was great thing that employees would focus on.

Clint Pulver:
The last one I will mention is trophies and awards. Think like a letterman's jacket. Think like Rookie Of The Year. Honestly, there are pieces of wood or a trophy or a glass case of some sort that just, it represented something important and it had their name on it. And again, when we can take all of those ways of recognition, think of an employee right now that maybe could use some time off. Who's the employee that could use maybe an experience with their family, that's performing? These are your all-stars. These are your rockstar employees. Figure out how to individualize a recognition opportunity for them. And it's an amazing way to create a moment for your people.

Mathieu Yuill:
Hey, you home listener, rewind two or three times. Take those notes down and I will not fault you if you pause right now and get out your whiteboard or open up your notes application, and just think about how you can implement those in your workforce. Because I think the most expensive thing on there would be like Taco Tuesday.

Clint Pulver:
Yeah.

Mathieu Yuill:
Yeah. Honestly, like these are so simple. It doesn't cost boatloads of money, and many of them are free or low cost. I worked with a client, they have core leaves. That's what they call their values. And every year they present awards for their core leaves. And when I go into their office, everybody who has won a core leaf over the last five, six years since they started them, they had them displayed in their office, like in prominence. It's not like hidden on a bookshelf somewhere. The awards of recognition. It's so simple and it's so effective.

Mathieu Yuill:
We're almost out of time. And so this is one question I did not prepare, but now I just need to know, because so much of your life has been in and around music. Give me one artist we should be checking out right now. Who are you listening to? Who's on your playlist? Who's in your favorites? Who's in high rotation on your Spotify?

Clint Pulver:
Ah, dude, isn't this cool. He's a Canadian artist. We'll represent the hometown here for a minute. Larnell Lewis, Larnell Lewis. He's an amazing drummer, incredible musician, very gifted. He's an educator, as well, and just a good human offstage as well, which I always appreciate. Yeah. He's a super talented cat, would recommend checking out Larnell Lewis.

Mathieu Yuill:
Okay. I felt if I have you on the line, I can't not ask you.

Clint Pulver:
Yeah, it's a great question, man. It's a great question.

Mathieu Yuill:
Jamie, who is our content manager, if you're listening to this, you probably are listening to it thanks to his hard work. He promotes it and put it together, the blog post and gets it published on all the platforms, podcast platforms. He's a musician, has three albums out on iTunes. So I know that he's already Googled this guy or he probably is already now texting me more about this person knowing him. So thank you so much.

Mathieu Yuill:
Okay. So if you're a client of Leading With Nice, when we receive I Love It Here, we're going to send you a copy. And what I'd love to do is we will get a Facebook group going so we can talk about it, or like take some of the lessons, just have discussions. If you're a listener, not a client of Leading With Nice, that's cool. Thank you so much for listening. Clint and I are going to talk after we stop recording about how we can get a bunch of these into our offices here, and we'll figure out a way. So check the show notes about how you can go about, we'll have a limited supply, how you can go and get a copy of this as well, too, because if you've listened to this episode and you're not convinced that you need to read this, then go back and listen again, because I can guarantee just from what I've learned of Clint and heard him speak today, this is going to be game changing for you.

Mathieu Yuill:
So, a few I want to thank, [Carrie Cotton 00:31:57] who is our account manager. If you heard notifications going off on my computer, it's because Carrie's doing work right now allowing me to have these great conversations. And she's been updating and putting messages in our Slack channel, et cetera, Carrie, thank you so much.

Mathieu Yuill:
[Cindy Craig 00:32:10] books all the guests. She gets everything organized, finds them. I'll say to her, "Hey, this person looks interesting." She tracks them down and gets them on the show. Thank you, Cindy.

Mathieu Yuill:
Naomi is our EA and she makes sure that I have the questions prepared and that I show up for this and I don't sound like an idiot. Jamie, as I mentioned before, takes care of all the promotion and content around this. [Austin Pomeroy 00:32:32] is our audio tech and I sound so much better after I've been through his software and his magicness. So thank you, Austin.

Mathieu Yuill:
Clint, man. Thanks for taking time. And again, you're in Utah. So getting up at whatever ungodly hour it is, it's probably actually not that bad, but thank you so much for making time today, man.

Clint Pulver:
Dude, it's a pleasure. And Matt, like that means the world that you guys would buy books. And let me know if I can jump on that Facebook group and do a little pop in and say hi to everybody and the clients and just add value. I would be honoured to do that. I appreciate your advocacy. Thanks for letting me be on the show and I look forward to next time.

Mathieu Yuill:
All right. Cool. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Have a great day. leadingwithnice.com for more. Check out the show notes for details on how to get a copy of I Love It Here. We'll talk to you again. Next time.