126: Terrence Malick

Terrence Malick has never talked about his films, but Alex and Nick are delighted to gush about them for over three hours. As the guys break down each Malick movie, topics include a career of all-timer voiceover, editing that moves like water, intentional music, the pissed-off crew of “Days of Heaven,” the perfect ending to “The New World,” how they made “The Tree of Life,” high praise for “Knight of Cups” and “Song to Song,” hearing Malick speak in Washington D.C., and so much more.
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Transcript

0:06

That's regardless. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Withrow, and I'm joined by my best man, Nick dose. How are you doing there, corporal face? Corporal Fife, Adrien Brody of the Red bull. Oh, my God, you're going to give me. Oh, sorry. Poor guy, poor guy. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. I was like, who the hell is that, Corporal Fife? Well, I'm, I'm really excited to be here for this. This excited for this. What a treat. This was a treat. This is a good word. Oh, such a like I, I did not expect the experience that I was going to have diving into Terrence Malick's work the way that we did. I mean, I always feel like for every director profile, this is just what always happens. It does you you spend time day after day, week after week, just really diving into this person's filmography. And you, you, I swear, you get to learn about who? This person. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I like I feel like the world that Terrence Malick lives in. And what he creates in his art, like, I just get now. I like his dialog, what he's after thematically in all of his movies, actually, all of them. Oh, yeah, all of them. It resonates so strongly. And it's so clear when you watch them like this that then every director, every artist out there really is just trying to get out some real, just like core things about the life that they've experienced. Yeah, questions, things that they want to express. It's not much sir. Like it really. It really doesn't seem like it's much, but yet it's everything about who we are as human in Terrence Malick's work. In his work. Yeah. I mean, just the way we do this, we pick a director months ahead of time, and then we, you know, do whatever our process is to get familiar with their work. Re familiar. We've seen his work. And for this one. Yeah, we picked like it was about 4 or 5 months ago. So I always go in order. So I watch them all in order. And then even doing that I'm like, wow, you really? I've seen all these movies, but I've never done that. I've never, like, watched them all in order and then just kept going back and watching them and what I realized in somewhere in the middle of my watch is I go, you know, it's so going to be so cool about this episode. This is the first director we've done where we have zero insight from the director himself about his work, because Terrence Malick does not talk about his work. He did interviews in like the 60s and, early 70s when he was first starting out. But notoriously, this is someone who refuses to do press, refuses to have his picture taken on set, really is, by seemingly every account, like the sweetest, most gentle man ever. Yeah, he has, you know, very specific visions of what he wants, but he does. He really makes movies in his own way, and we don't know really why he does it this way. We can like, listen to interviews with his collaborators. But I was having a lot of fun, you know, examining his work. And then something you and I talked about is that as we are going to talk about his movies, our opinions on his movies, this speaks for everyone. It's such a reflection of you, of the person, of how what you've gone through in life. Because no one's explaining to us, like, why this story? Why this setting, why that shot? It's really, really fascinating. We've covered directors who have been involved with entire books about themselves, like Cassavetes on Cassavetes, Scorsese, you on Scorsese, not here. It's great. There's nothing, there's nothing. And, and what we'll get into is his flame that you watched from the beginning. Yeah, because I chose not the reverse, but I started with the Tree of Life to the wonder Knight of Cups song. The song? So that shift in his style of filmmaking starting with that and then returning. Yeah. To Badlands, days of Heaven and just wondering why like why like. And I love it because. Well yeah I mean I know, but those movies that I started mentioning, they are not for everybody. I don't think Terrence Malick is a director. That's for everybody. I agree, I love those new works that he did. but when you really look back at those beginning works and be like, what did make this shift? Yeah. I mean, and how long was the gap between days of Heaven, 20 years, 20, 20 years, 78 to 98? What do you do in like what you know what he's doing. We're going to get to it. He's literally doing the plot of To the Wonder. He moves to Paris. He meets someone, he starts teaching, oh, falls in love. So a lot of his work is actually autobiographical. But we have it hurt. It's not like he did some sweeping interview explaining to the wonder. It's just people, you know, collaborators mentioned this along the way and they moved like back to Oklahoma didn't work out. And so that's a lot of what it is. So yeah, it's just fascinating. Like who takes a 20 year break to make this huge movie? you know, days of Heaven was very critically acclaimed, as was Badlands. And then. Yeah, it's like, I maybe I'm just not going to make a movie. And then when it comes back for The thin Red line, everyone wants to be involved. Everyone was. Yeah. And everyone was huge production and oh my God. And it's interesting, started the Tree of Life because I do think that is his magnum opus. I think that's the movie he had always wanted to make in those 20 years. He was really thinking about that at the time. For a long time the script was called just Q, the letter Q. Oh, wow. So he I think you had been writing Tree of Life and rewriting and doing that in that time. But then, yeah, what a crazy thing to look at the years of his filmography, see that gap, and then see a bit more time to the new world, bit more time to Tree of Life. You know, we're doing like six years and then it's just boom, boom, like, right in a row. Boom, boom. Yeah. And yeah, very different styles. Having a lot of fun with the fluidity of editing. But yeah, yeah I if Terrence Malick isn't for you like I, I'd be surprised if zero Terrence Malick movies worked for someone like there's probably one, but if his whole career isn't for you, I totally get it. I absolutely get it. He's a hard sell. Is very hard sell. Nope. No director in my life have I gone to the theater to see? And have there been more walkouts in the screenings? Like there's always walkouts? Yeah. Oh my God, when I sell song to song. Bethesda, that's the Marilyn. The weekend that came out, there were just people in there who were like, oh, I don't know what this is. And one guy left the theater and I think as he was leaving, someone probably murmured like, hey, I don't blame you. And the guy kind of loudly goes, this isn't even a fucking movie. Like, well, what if I watch it? I just laughed and I went, yeah, you're not, I hear you, I hear it's yeah. I was telling someone who had never seen Tree of Life and they're like, oh, what's that about? And I'm like, man, the world life, I don't know. Yeah. I started breaking it down and and I actually was getting pretty good. Like I was like, all right, you know, it's about this man, but it's flashing back to the way that he grew up with his parents, the dynamic. And it's also juxtaposed with the dawn of of mankind and the creation Earth, the dinosaurs, all this and that and and he's looking at me and he goes, okay, yeah, but what's it about? I go, that's it, man. Yeah. That's it. I mean, that's pretty much I can't really like. And and I feel like it's a really hard pitch. Oh. Like, how do you get someone outside of, Badlands and Days of Heaven, which are a little bit more plot driven? Yeah, the other ones, I'm like, do you like beautiful imagery? Do you like thinking in terms of a poem? Do you like do it? That's what they are. They're poems. They're poems. They are. Yeah. He's I mean, no one, no one really has the cachet to make movies the way that he does now. I mean, a few do, but he's basically he has one that's been that's in post-production right now and it's been in post-production for over a year. And that's just what he does. It's like he'll edit these for two years, three years, whatever it is, and then at some point probably be forced to release, you know, the people who put up the money. You're like, all right, Terry, we gotta we gotta finally get this thing out there. But to be able to. They filmed so much, he filmed so much footage, and then to be able to hire a bunch of editors who usually aren't even working, like, in the same room, they're all doing different stuff. It's it is a completely different way to tell a story. There's no act structures in any of his movies. Not really. So, yeah, a lot of people, if you're not like, used to this type of movie or not, if you're not into, you know, kind of opening your mind a little bit and not having things explain to you, yeah, you're going to come up with some challenging movie watching. All right. So here's the way I want to ask this question, okay. Is we've just kind of spend a little bit of time talking about how hard it is to sell Terrence Malick and these are the reasons why he might not be for you. But what are the reasons for you, as Alex, that he's for you? But one is what I've already mentioned, which is that we have to put ourselves onto the work and we have to really be invested in the work. And, you know, one of his movies, The Thin Red line, we've talked about a lot on this podcast, fair Movies in 1998. That movie really broke a lot of things open for me. It showed because so many war films, including the one that came out earlier that year, Saving Private Ryan there told Pretty conventionally. Yeah. And you get, you know, you're just following along the mission like you get it. I never seen anything like that constantly. Depending on who we're watching, we hear voiceover from them. And then there's someone else who's doing kind of sweeping voiceover for everything and then seeing how they're acting one way, but then their voiceover is completely different. Yeah. You know, they may be acting tough, but they're actually like a coward. And we figure that out and like, man. And then we get to the new world when that comes out. And that movie, I see it in the theater. That movie ends and he keeps reusing, does that voice pool or. Sorry, he keeps using Das Rheingold from Wagner. That's how he opens it. That's how it ends. And I was just weeping in the theater. And not because, like, I was sad that Pocahontas died, like, sad. But I was just weeping and going, why? And it's just so beautiful. So I think in a lot of ways he is he is a modern day Kubrick in some ways, because he doesn't, you know, he's even when he uses effects like in The Tree of Life, they're a lot of them are practical or as practical as possible. And I love that. But moreover, it's that I don't know anyone else making movies this way. I always respect his vision. I have not head over heels. Loved every Malick movie the first time I saw it, I that's just true. But I've always, always been eager to go back and re explore. Yeah, I agree, I don't think there's anyone, I don't think there's anyone that can do what he does. Yeah, he gets a lot of bad imitators, but it's just it's not the same. It's not the same. There's a level of craftsmanship to it. But you also have to be willing to give yourself over to a fairly you have to surrender to letting whatever he's showing you move you. Yeah. So if you're just sitting there and you're just expecting, this plot to move, it's not. Yeah. It's not. But what he's able to communicate. Well, get into it with the new world, because I think the biggest compliment that I have for him and his abilities occurs in the new world. Oh, okay. Great. But he reminds me a little bit of, well, not not in the same way at all, but Kieslowski. Okay. In the sense that I still don't think there's any other filmmaker that communicates an idea as well as Kieslowski does through so many kind of innovative ways, but he plays with a lot more plot devices. Sure. But when Malick does something where he communicates an idea to you in the way that it hits you, there's nothing like that. Yeah, I can not think. And it's only through film. Yep. It's it's only through the combination of the voice over with the imagery and then with the actor and the music. His choices are so good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's it's just when when they all come together in such a way. Which I don't know how you write that as a script. Like I don't either. Well do that often. His scripts are very conventional. Yeah, very like standard standardly written. I think you have to do that to get actors on board to get crew on board. Like the way his, the way his final movies are. They're not written that way. And you just know that, you know, Malick does a lot of his own operating. He's not a cinematographer, but he'll be holding the camera. Or if he isn't, and he's just right off to the side of the cinematographer, he's constantly in the actor's ear, giving them direction like, say that, say this. And so you have to be used to that, and then you have to be used to, as we are going to get to that. You could give your heart and soul in a Terrence Malick movie and just be cut as audio. So you could be, you know, reduced down to a few lines. And I think early on people had issues with that. People had issues in the New World as well, namely James Horner, who does this beautiful score for the movie, and he uses very, very little of it, opting for stuff like Wagner and things like that. But then once we get to the Tree of Life, it seems like everyone just gets it. So if you're on board, if you want to come into this thing, you got to understand what you're getting into. So then to the wonder, there was like A-listers who were cut from that. That sounds like it was, I don't know, 4 or 5 hour movie. There were so many people cut from it, but I didn't hear anyone complaining. They kind of know by now this is the deal. Yeah. all right, little background on Malick before we get to Badlands, because this is kind of fascinating. So he's so he's born in Ottawa, Illinois, went to prep school in Austin, Texas, graduated summa cum laude from Harvard. Wow. Receives a Rhodes scholarship, studies philosophy at Oxford, taught philosophy at MIT. He wrote journalism articles for Newsweek, The New Yorker, Life magazine, and he goes to AFI in 1969, American Film Institute. There he becomes really good friends with production designer Jack Fisk is the name we're going to hear a lot. And in 1970, at 27 years old, he begins to develop Badlands with the help of director Arthur Penn, who did? Oh, Clyde. Yeah, he was a big, sort of venture type. Make sense? Yeah. Yeah. So Bonnie and Clyde. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. He puts up malick, puts up 25 K of his own savings. They make Badlands independently. Warner Brothers buys it for a million. It's released in 1973 to ecstatic praise. And a new voice of 1970s American cinema has announced itself. It may not be as loud or as flashy or as pop culture inspired as some of his contemporaries like Scorsese, Spielberg, George Lucas. But a quiet voice has emerged, a quiet voice of immense power has emerged. So I, you know, we don't know much about his background. That's just because he doesn't ever do interviews. But we're talking about a extremely well-educated man who has an emphasis on philosophy, doesn't have it birdwatcher, which I think you can kind of tell with your watching some of his movies. Yeah, that's so funny. And yeah, that I mean, it's important as we lead up to Badlands to remind people that this was an independently produced movie. They just they got about $300,000 to make it, and they did not have studio backing, and they're just out there doing it and they don't really know what they're doing. And then what emerges is this. Yeah. Really unique I don't know. Well, yeah. Let's get in the Badlands. Let's start. All right. Start with Badlands. The, I think this is one of those movies. And this does not mean it gets bad upon repeat viewings, but you only see this movie for the first time once. Okay? At least that's how I feel, because I did no idea what it was and the way that things would just start to kind of happen. And you would, I would just sort of be like, what am I supposed to do with this? Yeah. And you're making up for yourself as you go along. Yeah. So upon rewatching it now, I'm studying it. And in that way of really tracking it, I think that Martin Sheen is a complete psychopath. Just totally. Yeah, it's totally nuts. But, that I'm getting ahead of myself. Badlands. I think it's a perfect movie. It really is. I think it is. He takes this crime spree of Charles Starkweather and his girlfriend, Carrie Ann Fugate in 1958, and doesn't. It's not like a literal direct adaptation, but he's using that as influence. But then again, this is not like a straight told crime story. It was on these weird tangents. It can get like shockingly violent times and you're like, oh, and yet you can definitely see the Bonnie and Clyde influence. They were they were the voice over. And it was influenced by Francois Truffaut The Wild Child, which I had never seen. And I watched that and I was like, okay, so he's Malick is really into the French New Wave, as a lot of the American directors of the 70s were. Yeah. So the way he's using music, his cutting patterns, it's, you know, what's funny is the music used throughout it is by this guy Carl Orff. And it was played in the movie. It's played by kids. And that, like song is to teach kids how to learn music, really. And he just uses it. So it's all children playing the instruments. So it's weird shit like that. Like, I wouldn't even think of and it totally it pays off. It all enhances the vibe of this movie. Well, it sounds like that. Yeah, yeah. It's like that was actually one thing I wrote down about the music. I was like, this sounds like a playground. Like. And many times, like, especially when they're in the woods and they're actually making forts, like, it feels like that. Yeah. Just kids and and, Wow, that's really fascinating. Yeah, that's really cool. The, is Terrence Malick, like, the goat with the voiceover? Oh, man. Yeah, that's a great call because, I mean, he plays with it so much and and he's not stuffy with his voiceover. He's not making people, like, come and record in a booth and do all this ADR. A lot of times there, he'll get an idea and he'll put an actor, like in a car on set and be like, here, just talking to this mic. Yeah, do it like that. And somehow this all plays I okay, this is a huge thing for him because some people could very seriously disagree with us that the voiceovers take away from the movies and they're distracting. But yeah, I think they really work. They you have to understand that it's going to be a huge part of the narrative. Yes, about just all of his movies. And it's not going to be one voice. It's not going to be the, you know, third person knowing all birds eye view God thing where they know everything. It's gonna be the characters in the movie. So, yeah, I mean, I think the voiceover specifically in The Thin Red line is that's right up there with my favorite just ever. it's such a I mean, I don't personally, I would lead the charge in the arguments of people that want to say that Terrence Malick's voiceover is not good. Yeah, I would, I would lead it against that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't think his movies will work without it agreed at all, as matter of fact. And even these ones. And like this one, we start the movie with 60 spaces. Yep. VoiceOver. And, you know, voiceover usually tells us that this is going to be the person story that we're following. Yeah. And it actually is. we're hearing her inner monologue about what's happening, which is great because we shouldn't hear it from him. Right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would that would just be too. It would be too scattered and weird. Yeah. But we get moments throughout the movie where like when he's talking into, like the, the recording. Oh, yeah. Or when he's talking into the phone, these are actually the moments that we're getting with him. So we're actually here. I think he must just live in a world where the inner monologue to all of us, is our driving force. That has to be, because that's where all of his movies kind of operate. Oh, yeah, we learn about characters actions, about how they think about things based off of his voice overs. Yeah. And sometimes they're he the voice overs are conflicting with like, what we're seeing. Not yes, not all the time, but sometimes it is. And you're like, oh wow. Okay, okay. This is you're we're getting so much new insight. So yeah, he again, if you don't like the voice overs in his movies and you're probably not going to like his movies, you have to give in to it. You have to listen into it. Especially as they go on. Oh, yes. Now you're more obscure. You're getting like, voiceover from people that aren't even on the screen. I know, I know, it's somebody else. He's like, oh, that's so-and-so's voice or well, is that oh yeah, God, I love it. I love it. It's really interesting to watch these first two movies because he a lot of the dialog was recorded, like in post. They rerecorded a lot of it for bad for Badlands for any number of reasons. But this thing of dialog is going to be very big for Malick, coming up to where he's going to be cutting around dialog in later movies and later he's just not even going to shoot scenes with dialog sometimes just to get that really, like emotional expression, you know, in with them. And there's a really good editing story with Badlands that this movie was edited by this guy, Robert Estrin, and he's the credited editor on the movie. He delivered cut, and Malick did not like it. And Malik's like, no, I'm going to go cut it myself. And he and his friend Billy Weber, who went on the cut days of Heaven and The Thin Red line. They cut it together, and that's the cut we see. But because it's an indie movie with, you know, none, they didn't have union crews, they didn't have any permits. They had nothing for this. So I again, that's him being like, no, like I put my own money on the line for this. I'm not going to have this editing cut that I don't like. It's going to be my vision and my version. And I love that from, you know, movie one with like zero clout in Hollywood. Forget it, forget it. Zero clout anywhere. He just does it his own way. Yeah. and it really comes through. There's, there's I wrote this down, and this is a thing that I think is probably the truest thing about all of his movies. Even if you want to argue with some of the later ones, I don't think there's ever a moment of wasted storytelling. Oh, no. Even for a second in any movie in Badlands. Any. What a compliment. Yeah, yeah, there's he like, okay, let's take the, swords of the beginning. There's the sex, the lack of sex scene. Yes. In Badlands. well, I, I was clued into the way that he's giving us his storytelling by not showing certain things. Yeah, it's a it's a wonderful way to do it because you're kind of wondering, like in, in this whole entire relationship, this tension, because it mentions that he's older, he's younger, but this was the 70s. Say what you will. I know, and I think it takes place earlier than that. Yeah. Or earlier that. Anyways, the sex scene, we just see them in like this, like the nature basically, and they look like they're just getting dressed. It's just ended. It's just ended. And she just goes, is that all there is to it, etc.. And he just goes, yeah. And like we're now able to kind of like understand what's happened. But this is how he gives us information. Exactly. He gives us information by just exactly when we need it. Because there's times where I'm watching some of his movies and I'm like, what about blah blah? and it'll go a period of time and I'll be like, maybe we've just lost that. Maybe we're not going to get that. And then all of a sudden he brings it back and I go, Holy shit. Like, I needed to know that. And even if it's subtle, he's saying to us what we need to get with every intentional moment covered, even if it's just a cut of a prop, that prop means something. Yeah, we need to understand that. That's when he's packing her suitcase and he's broken. Because we don't know that he's broken into the house yet. Right? We're seeing he's packing something and then we're getting more and more. Oh, he's in the house. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Like. And you have to work when you watch the movie set to work a little bit and be like, oh, okay, okay. Yeah. And when you do that, you're on the edge of your seat. Yeah. You're invested in what's going on. But yeah, it's just amazing to me that he does it exactly when you need it. Not maybe not when you want it. Oh sure. For sure when you need it. I'm like, oh there it is. Now you, you've you've answered this one thing that I've had kind of like I'm wondering about this and there you've given it to me and so much more. It's it never fails. Yeah, yeah. Even even in the later ones where things are very atmospheric, their sides were departing from characters and I'll be like, what about this? And then it'll come back. I go, cool, it really is like water. That's how he wants his movies in the editing and feel. He wants it to flow like water. How many movies does he start with? Freaking like water. I mean, yeah, someone who's very concerned and concentrated and fascinated by nature, all facets of it. And yeah, that that has been his kind of his credo. That's what he tells his editors. It should just like flow. It doesn't. We're not worried about continuity. We're not worried about, you know, we'll get into later some of the like shot constructions, the way he'll shoot a conversation, which is it's just atypical to how you would shoot a conversation. And it still works because it's all him. And it's weird because some people might watch his films and call them pretentious, but I think there's a complete lack of pretension in all of them. I don't know, I don't feel pretentious watching him. I just feel like I'm watching a different sort of artist to thank God for us, for you. And I decided to make movies. Yeah, like thank God. Yeah. It's the only. He's he he can only really execute his vision through film. Yeah. Like it's truly the only medium. Like some people could write this, some people could make the music and all this. But what he gives us through the only like from the film medium is something that you can only do through here. Yeah, it's never over bloated, even though some might argue that it's exactly right. It's exactly right. I just don't ever see him. I don't see anything in his movies where he's like, look what I can do. It doesn't it doesn't draw attention to itself in that way. Actually, the way his movies are made are very unfussy. He does not have big crews. He does not. They're not doing playback and stuff on set. He's either operating the camera or right next to the cinematographer. And it's it's very, very fluid. And you're going to be doing long takes of like, you know, trying to catch a butterfly or looking at birds or like that. And you just have to trust that he as an actor, you have to trust that he's going to land the plane in the final movie. And as an audience, we have to trust that this will lead somewhere. Yeah, important. And they always do. All of them. I love that scene in the end when Martin Sheen just all like, chummy with like he's been arrested and chummy with the cops, apparently, like the real Starkweather did that. But that to me is like, that's the real psychotic nature that, like, you've just been out killing people, and now they're like, tell me, you know, talk to me. And he's, you know, you want this comb, you Dawson. Comb out. I love the I don't know, the weird charm of that, I love that. Oh, it's one of the my favorite parts of it is. Yeah. Like, he's just so happy. It's like a on a wing of a plane. Yeah. He's he's like, he loves the attention. Yeah, yeah. And, so I guess we should just kind of like, we're spoiling it a little bit. That's okay. Spoiling it. Yeah. there, so basically he falls in love with sissy space and Martin Sheen's character and tries to be, a good dude and talk to the father. Yep. And be like, hey, I. And even in that scene, there's no wasted dialog. Yeah. Like, we get there and we know immediately, like, you got the father who I love it there. He's in the middle of nowhere painting a like a billboard or notes. He's so good. And it's like we gather, like, because a little bit of, like, dialog is told us that my dad's not going to like me dating a garbage man. yes. And so we know this. So. But nothing's happened in between this, then all of a sudden, we just see him drive up. We don't need to know anything else other than, like, oh, he's going to talk to her dad. Yeah, he's not going to like him because he's a garbage man, and he shows up and it's a perfect scene of someone trying to get something from someone, and he gets shot down. Oh, yeah, and he uses charm. He uses whatever, and he does not get what he wants. So there we go. We that's the information that we have. And we're emotionally affected because of the way that scene plays out. Yeah. What happens next? He tells him he's in their house. Yeah. He's in their house. In their house. Yeah. And you know, because now because we're putting together I'm like, oh, he's not taking no for an answer. Correct. And now it's between him and then the father like and he's got a gun. Yeah. And we're like what is going to happen? And then he fucking kills. He kills him. Just because I can't have your daughter's hand or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. It's a big quick jump. It's a huge jump. But and so we're kind of thrown by this very much. But then even like as we're sitting because like, he doesn't leave like all of a sudden sissy space like who's seen all this like my oh my God, he just killed my dad. Yep. We're sitting in this like, like crazy situation. He we're now getting that Martin Sheen is just immediately thinking about, I'm going to cover this up. I'm going to do this. She's dealing with the emotion. But even in her own kind of like, disassociated way. Right. And then I love that she smacks him. Yeah. And then basically is like, what do we do now? again? Like it's almost it reminds me a bit of like, Cassavetes or Bergman or something, where we don't need to talk this out. Yeah. We don't. There's so much to say. There's so much in our minds to unpack. How could someone do this? How could you be with him? How could. Who's not calling the cops all this? And then. But he's just giving us the absolute necessities for what we need to understand. And then we can make up with that what we want. Yeah, and but then the movie's going to move forward. So he's not going to waste minced meat with anything. Yeah, yeah. Well said. And her, you said like her disassociated thing because she is in the house watching it. That all plays in the voiceover too. And I love the way that she plays that where she just going along. They go out to the woods and they're trying to, like, start a life and hey, everything's like, know whatever. No big deal. It's this and that. She it's it's a very the movie is told so unconventionally because yeah, any other movie, most any other movie would have those scenes play, you know. Did you do this? Why did you kill my dad and all this stuff? But they did. Yeah. Let's just go. Come on, get your stuff. Let's go. And we understand them better. Yeah, exactly. We understand that he is cold blooded. and that she's got nowhere to go. Yeah. And and she even says it. She's like, well, there's nowhere else for me to go. I forgot how she says it, but she's like, he at least sees me for me. So I'd rather be with him, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I'd be on my own. Right. And and and like, we honestly, like, there's so much to kind of take in with all of that that we don't need any more exposition. No we don't. Exposition is not big in his movies. Not a very thing. Yeah. One thing I got to say about Badlands is that Sissy Spacek did star in this. And the art director slash production designer of the movie was Jack Fisk. The great Jack Fisk is the name we're going to bring up a lot. Terry Malick is often called Jack my eyes. He is my eyes because, you know, he got his contribution is just so significant. But they got married, they met and fell in love and got married. And they're still married to this day. Jack Fisk and Sissy space. It's incredible. It's great. Amazing. Yeah, I love that. I wish you'd be in another Malick movie. Just like show up and give us a little, I don't know, like a cameo and something. It'd be fun, but but she doesn't really show up in much. Yes. She's not. That's true, that's true. She was in, the old Man in the gun with Robert Redford. Oh, yeah. She was. Yeah, she was. She's very good. Yeah, yeah. Very charming. Where does Martin Sheen rank for you in, your favorite movie? Psychopaths. I really good question. I really like him because I always prefer my psychopaths. Yes. Right. Yes. Like calm and control. Yeah. And down here and not there, you know, rant, ranting, lunatic. The ravings of a lunatic or something. Yeah, I don't that to me isn't that challenging to just be foaming at the mouth and like screaming as an acting exercise, but that is why one of my favorite scenes in this movie maybe is him at the end when he's called. Yeah, just being all cool and probably like he might get the death penalty and like, he just doesn't. Hey, whatever. It's all good. He was. It's like he was doing what he was doing just to pass the time because it happened in like, oh, well, here we are. There wasn't any grand purpose. So you drink highly. I really like him. And he's an underrated one. Underrated. Yeah. Yeah. Underrated. And yes, I like him a lot. I like him a lot. To the the one scene that really clued me in to just exactly what this behavior is, is when they actually go to the, his old garbage man, his body, his house in like the middle of nowhere. And Sissy Spacek just tells us this joke, and he start the garbage guy starts laughing hysterically, and Martin Sheen's watching it, and he he says this with like, no, Hugh, he's not laughing. You guys in that funny you could tell. Like, there's probably a part of him that actually thinks that that joke is very humorous, but like, he's not like, isn't that isn't that funny? Yeah. He's just like, shut off in that way. Yeah. Like there's just like he can't laugh, but he he understands that. That's a funny joke, but he's not going to let any emotion come out. He's not actually going to have a laugh. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, this guy's fucking nuts, man. He's fucking crazy. I love it. I love when they're in the house. Of course we got to talk about this. Terrence Malick, very shy, very press shy, publicity shy. He's the actor who comes in, rings doorbell and wants to get home. Yeah. Yes. Like meet with someone. I think he's an architect. And he's, like, wearing the hat. It's actually he's like, is he home? Yeah. Oh, that's that's melodramatic. Yeah. Like is he home there like. No he's not. And he's kind of like bumbling. And he looks confused like he had a meeting. It's very short. It's very brief. But I love him in that. Yeah. That is Malick. That's Terrence Malick. Oh that's cool. Yeah, I like that. The actor. Yeah, that that that job too, because it was like just enough of, like. It's weird. Yeah. I'm not going to think too much about it though. Right. He plays that. He's like, oh, that's weird. Okay. and hear that voice of his okay. Oh thank you. Yeah, I love it I love it. Yes. That's him, that's him. Badlands. What a first. What a great first movie and an announcement. Like, here I am. this was, ranked highly in both of our favorite movies from 1970. It was on that episode. Yeah. something else happened in that episode, but I can't remember. I don't remember either, but, I remember I think I told people, and I still recommend this, this is, if you were to just blindly buy the Badlands. Yeah. You would not be upset about that. The criterion is incredible. They his first few movies of all made it to criterion. And I have them all in. They're all, blow my mind to. Great. Oh, such good shit. How do you think Moonrise Kingdom? How much did that ring for you? I got a lot in Moonrise Kingdom when I. I thought about that movie a lot watching back. It's interesting. Yeah, it's like, you know, a kid friendly version of Badlands. May be. I mean, going out to the woods. There has to be something there. Like. Like when she's putting on, like, the eyeliner. Yeah. And. Yeah, like, I remember, like, they're like, there's even, like, so many, like, color schemes that are similar. Oh, cool. I've never thought about that. Yeah, I just that that particular sequence or set of them was like, oh, like Moonrise Kingdom is like so cool over this. That's great. So some time goes by. Now he has some actual interest from a studio. They give him $3 million to make his next film. Days of Heaven. Now, there are two movies in Terrence Malick's catalog that are all in 4K. One is days of Heaven, which is a great 4K transfer, the other somewhat bafflingly, is song to song baffling about which looks great. I bought it, it looks great this 4K. You talking about blind buying a movie? If you blind buy this 4K, which also, you know, has the Blu ray criterion. Oh my god, it's I. I can't even imagine the wealth of knowledge you'll get from there's actually a commentary in it. Not from him, of course, but from some of the crew people. So you're gonna I learned so much. It was a great commentary, because I learned really quickly that the crew, the unionized studio crew, most of them not not the department heads, not like the Jack Fisk or the the head costume designer, but all of their crew people. They hated Malick because in Badlands, it's an indie film. He's allowed to do it how he wants to do it. And he's they're making it up as they go. But he comes to days of Heaven and he goes, you know, actually, we're going to shoot everything in like, natural low light. And they didn't know how to do that. He taught the DPS, the producers. He taught them how they could film in low light and process the film and have it work. And when you when you have a director who only has one belt, one movie under his belt and he's still young, and when they're making days of Heaven, telling all these people who, you know, could have been in the industry since the 50s, like making movies, I don't know, with like David Lean or something. They got this kid coming in, they're like, no. So he had to fight tooth and nail constantly to get things done his way. So the movie is, you know, it's short for Malick. Maybe it's like 90 minutes. It comes in quick. Hour 35. Yeah. Hour 35. And it I don't see any of those problems when I watch it. But knowing that I was like, this is hysterical that he this like, gentle guy really had to fight and announce, no, I want to do it this way. And then, you know, we'll of course get into the movie, but when it comes out, it's just a huge, a very big deal in terms of the filmmaking universe. This movie, I love this movie, but yeah, let's get into it. So this is my very first time seeing it. You never seen it? I never seen it. How did I not know that? I didn't know I don't know yeah. Oh, wow. Never seen it. Oh, cool. Okay, okay. That's great. But I knew that this was I knew this was more of a narrative movie. Like I knew that going into I know. Yeah, a little bit. He is. This is where you really see him start the first experiment with, you know, not relying all the time on dialog. Oh yeah. The editing for this, he was telling Billy Weber, like with each passive editing, I said, I want to take more dialog out. Like, so you got to find sequences when they're just not talking and just looking at each other. And it took it was it was hard to do that. Yeah. Well, case in point, I mean, one of my favorite whole entire scenes of the movie is the beginning in the factory. Oh, God, it's so good. Like the. Because what's so great about that is like, you know, we're getting this environment of this factory that he's working in, the richer gear, the working gear. And we're just seeing and hearing the sounds of the factory. And then he gets into, into a dispute with this one guy, and we see them talking, but we inaudibly cannot hear, and it's not even like you hear, like, a little bit of like. Like it's like, far away voice. Right? It's completely cut out. And and I was like, oh, my God, we're starting the movie like this. Just like, where are we? What's going on? Yeah, yeah, starting this way. And then a fight breaks out and he runs. Yeah, he kills a guy. He kills the guy. I mean, accidentally, yeah, but but, But. Yeah. And then. And then he runs and like, now, like, this is what we have. There's been no dialog. Yeah. I just watch this guy kill a guy and run off. Yep. Here we go. Running off with his girlfriend and his younger sister. And then they they're taking a train. They make it all the way out, you know, to this farmland that's run by this rich guy. Sam Shepard is great. And then they they realize they're going to get ahead and get more done if they pretend to be brother and sister. And this is going to quickly cause a bit of a conflict. But yeah, this is for me. This is the kind of movie you watch. You're like, oh, wow. And you think about for two days, and I'm just so compelled to go back to it and rewatch it and go, okay, I need to. There's more. There's more I gotta figure out here. That's that was my experience with it. I was liking it, the whole entire time I was watching it. But even when it was over, I just go, I how about that? And then and then, like, the next day, all that's in my head are the visuals. Yeah. I, I'm just thinking about the the dialog and some of the voiceover. This is where I started to actually write down some of my favorite lines. Oh, cool. And and we should talk about the voiceover for this one. Oh, it's so good because this one's from the kid. Yeah, yeah. And man, it's so good and it's so good. And it's a perfect narration because she was there for all of it in terms of what the story gives us. But, she's never the focal point of anything. but I think that's by design because mostly because we, our in the audio is our window into her. We don't really need to deal with her much. what a great, interesting way to kind of have that story being told someone who's on screen but never a part of a scene really like a secondary. A second, definitely a secondary, definitely a secondary character. But the voiceover is her story. Yeah. This I, I'm bringing it up now. I'm literally jumping to the very last, the very end of the movie. But when she's like talking about her friend. Yes, she was a good friend of mine. We met and then she just ended up and I did not remember. That's how it ended. I kept rewinding and going, what a weird fucking choice, dude. Yeah. Like that. That she just, like, walks off with this friend. She was a good friend of mine. Just ends. And, that's that's what makes me keep thinking about the movie. I'm like, why in there? What? Wow. So what was your take on it? I just, you know, it's because she's a kid, and, like, it's a little, I began a little disassociated from, like, what? She's narrating and stuff, which I like. It's just this was a chapter in my life here. Here it was. And now we're just moving on. It's like Malik could write an autobiography of that whole character and then look at this, what, six months or one year and go, yeah, I want to just do that. But the way she's delivering this voiceover, she's like, there's a whole life in there. Yeah. And that's I don't know, I just I love that she's going to keep going. She's, you know, going on meet her new friend and it's another road, another road open I guess I don't know. But knowing how long his movies can be, it's like, wow, there could totally be another half hour here. And I doubt I would mind, but I just love ending it here. I loved it too. God, I, I took it as you know, because of everything that just happened. It's a pretty traumatic series of events, for sure, that I. But now when we're seeing what's happening, everyone's kind of moved on. and, that's what happens. Yeah. Is that you just move on from things. Life just is always changing. And that, there's almost like this, like, not cynical, but there is this sort of accepting wisdom behind it. It's just pragmatism. It's. Yeah, it's not it's not cynicism. It's just like, this is what it is and what it was. Yup. And I really hope that she's all right. Like, that was friendly and like, we saw each other that one time and then met up again in life and off she goes again. I hope things go well for her. Yeah. Like it's, I think it's one of the most fascinating endings because it forces you to think. Exactly. Because if you're not thinking, that's not going to make any sense. Yeah, yeah. You're just sort of like, what the hell? And then if you don't actually go, well, why do you think that we ended with that, that sentence or that voice over and you don't start having that conversation with yourself. You're missing the whole entire point. Absolutely. And and what we're saying, it might not even be right. You know, Terrence Malick, I mean, who knows what that could have been? Maybe he just thought it was funny. I don't know, maybe. Yeah, I doubt it, but I mean, but again, we'll never know. We'll never know, right? No. Like it ended on that. so because this was your first time, do you know anything about, like, how this movie was made or anything? I mean, watching it, you know, the day he insisted on shooting a natural light around Magic Hour a lot of the times. And so that's pretty clear. Yeah, but like the locust scene, which is like one of the great Terrence Malick set pieces, they shot a lot of that in reverse. And had helicopters and were just dropping like peanut shells down. Oh, that would that would rather they did not shoot it in reverse in editing. They reversed. It's they had to practice very carefully their movements like Richard. You would have to do movement backwards. Yeah. Isn't editing. They're going to reverse it. And it sounds simple, but this is the type of stuff that he was doing. And it was like, oh, wow, that's the stuff that was annoying. The crew. But then like blowing their minds. Then you see it in editing and you're like, oh shit, this actually can work like that. I mean, that there that was one of the most it was like horrific to me. Yeah. Watched like all those like, well, you get the idea that they're bugs. just dropping, dropping and doing all the crop, rounding everything. And I was like, oh my God, I, I was so overcome by the emotion of it, I didn't even bother to think about how they did it. Right. I just convinced that it was real. Well, that's the whole point. That's what's great. Yeah, peanut shells can be real. Oh my God, I love that. the cast casting is interesting. Let's go. Because you know who we're getting to because. Yes. Well, certainly Malik very, very much wanted John Travolta badly and fought badly to get him cast. John Travolta was in a very popular show at the time called Welcome Back, Kotter, which was. The showrunner was Aaron Spelling, who went on to do, You know, 902 and oh, and Aaron Spelling would not let him out of this contract to go be in the Terrence Malick movie. The casting director originally really wanted Tommy Lee Jones for The Farmer, and she never even considered Sam Shepard because he was not an actor. He was a playwright. This was his first major role. Yes, this is your guy. Let's do it. Talk to me about him fucking Sam Shepard. So what a what a what a handsome young man. Oh, yeah, I yeah, he's a little like the, the, like his teeth. I love like smile. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. I guess for anyone who might be new to the pod, Sam Shepard is, an all timer playwright for me, I, I, I completely love every single one of his plays, even the weird ones. You know, he even has a musical, I think. Oh, I didn't know that at all. Yeah. Okay. I'm. Maybe I'm completely off the mark here, but I think I actually surprised me. You know, you're if you're that accomplished it playwright and you want to try the the other way. Yeah. It it I, I certainly haven't read it but I think I own it anyways. I love I love everything he writes I, I think he is a, one of the greatest contemporary playwrights that we had is, he's passed away recently, recently. And, and he's always kind of given his stab at acting. He's always been like an actor's playwright in that way, where I think he always really wanted to kind of get his hands in the mix. I think he had a much more successful run at acting as he got older. Yeah. And he kind of settled into that, that, that wise tough guy. Yeah. Like he played that very, very well. Yeah. I think he kind of knew that that was his primary because he can he stopped writing plays at a certain point and kind of just focusing on that. But this was when he was young and in the throes of his playwriting career. And what's crazy is the way that he looks. He's so baby faced. He looks like you wouldn't think at all. He'd write the way that he writes, right? Because he writes such deep, tortured, weird characters that you would never think like that. This, like, you know, white meat, baby face, pretty boy was darkness there. Got this crazy favorite fucked up absurd darkness. Anyways, I thought he was great. I thought I thought that he, you know, for being a first time actor, he kind of felt like that. It didn't feel like a. I also felt this from Richard Geer to actually everyone. Like, I didn't feel like these were necessarily like the most, like, polished, polished performers. Has the perfect word polished or like even like, like third dimensional in some ways. but they all became that way as if by the time it was over, like I felt like I understood every single one of them in deeper ways, but not scene by scene. which is a weird way to kind of start to think about the movie. I yeah, I, I felt so bad for him, like, for Sam Shepard. Yeah. When he finds out what we should say. So yeah, the setup is Richard Gere and Brooke Adams, who are a couple. They've decided let's be brother and sister, because it'll just be, I don't know, easier. And we're all we're working around all these people. And then, you know, the farmer there, Sam Shepard, gets a little catch his eyes for Brooke Adams, and she and Geer agree. Well, yeah, just go like, be with him because this is only going to be is only going to help us and then. Well, and also he was set to die. Exactly. Yes. Yes. The farmer is set to die. Yeah. Yeah. Richard, you're over here. Is that. Yes. He's going to die soon. So he's like, let's just wait this thing out, get married, take this guy's money. and now we got this estate. Yeah, yeah, but they get a little too, guild to handsy, you know, Richard Gere and Brooke and your brother and sister. So, yeah, when he catches wind of that, then we get this damn Lucas thing, and now there's a fire everywhere, and it's like it's hell on earth. And then they come to a head. It's just. It's really, really great. I love their interaction. It's kind of a callback to the beginning. Fight in the factory. Yeah. When they're, like, going at it. Richard is like, what are you doing? Like, what's going on? We can kind of hear their dialog, but the way that it's cut and chopped you. Yeah, you just have to pay attention. It's not like some wide master shot. And we're like watching it all play out. It's. You feel the chaos. You feel the fire. You feel the fucking locust. Everywhere you feel it all. What I really kind of dug about the movie was that as it was going, and I'm kind of starting to kind of, I don't know, I'm not judging it, but I'm. I'm putting it in a box. I suppose. Me that's just something that we just do as audience members when we're watching something. I started to kind of feel like that this there was this like Grapes of Wrath type of, idea to it, like the sweeping American like giant or like the like this, this type of American story, but done in this type of setting. But it's not long. Exactly. We have this very, very deep story and it's spanning a lot of time and a lot of these really big significant moments happen. But all within an hour and 35 minutes. Crazy. But it doesn't feel like they when I say bite there's no wasted motion. I don't think this needed to be any longer I agree, I agree, just by the time that we get to the fire in the locusts, things have already been building up. Yep. Like the the the stakes and the the questions and then finally the realizations. They all pile on top of each other in such a way where it doesn't feel like they happen too fast, it doesn't feel like it was forced. And then when we get to the end, I remember at the end and he, you know, you can we can talk about it. Yeah. It's I mean, we are going to spoil these movies. They're old but it I don't know, I just think it's fine. It is when, when Shepherd dies. Yeah. I realize I was like, this is the end. Like, we're we're here. Like, we've gotten, like, the devastation. We've gotten, like, the complete breakdown of all of these people. And now there's really nothing left but the denouement. Yeah, and that's what we get. And when it was over, I go, I just feel like I watched a three hours worth of, like, storytelling in an hour and a half. That is such a huge compliment and I never really thought about it that way. And yeah, I agree, you do. You feel like you've watched this grand, sweeping epic, but somehow it just took an hour, 35 minute. It was crazy. Yeah. Even even thinking back about it, I was like, man, it seems like forever ago when I was watching them just start working on this land. Yeah. And then it's like, well, no, actually, that was only really 45 minutes ago there. You know, in terms of visuals, there are some things I want to say and bring up about his shooting style, while being aware that it can be hard to talk about visuals on a podcast because we don't have reference points. But the way this is another reason why the crew were like, what are you doing, buddy? So there are a few scenes, but I'll take one. When he and Sam Shepard are talking and there it's like kind of, you know, it's outside and they're talking in the the if you pay attention, the light on them is the same. And it's directly even even though it's magic hour. So like the actor talking on the other side should be darker, but the light is exactly the same. And that is because Sam Shepard was done with his lines and they brought in Richard gear, and he stood in the exact same place Sam Shepard was. He didn't stand across from him. So if you watch carefully, the French do this all the time. That's where Malick got it from. If you watch it carefully, it's essentially the exact same shot. And they're supposed to be talking, like facing each other. Yeah, that is so crazy. I wouldn't even think on set if someone was telling me this. I'm going to be like, dude, this is going to look like, really dumb. You're going to be able to see the background because they have the background blown out. You cannot tell it's a similar background. He dislikes the way the light looked on both of their faces when it was that magic hour. So that's how he does stuff. And that is a way to get your crew, like what's going on here? Or even your actors, like, okay buddy, I'll trust you. But that is one of the reasons why the movie looks so good, because they're doing weird shit like that constantly. That's crazy. It's nuts. It's nuts. I would never think to do something like that. And that's how they're filming. Like the whole movie. He's man, that's that's just that. That's wild to me. Like, oh my God. They editing took forever on this Billy Weber. It's a he is in the special features a lot. He it's a he's just great to talk about it because one of the reasons why it took so long is it was filmed very traditionally. There was it was traditional dialog. It was like a traditional movie. It was filmed based on the script and they, you know, get it in editing. And Malick's like, I don't want to do this. I think we have way too much dialog. I don't want them to be saying all this. So find me moments when, you know, we can just use, like if it's a conversation, we just hear 1 or 2 words, 1 or 2 sentences total, and the rest are silences. And that took them a very long time, to the point when Billy Weber said, while they're editing goes, Terry, if you ever make a movie again, you need to shoot takes normally with dialog, and then you need at least one take of them, essentially performing the scene, but without words. You need to start doing this. And he does with the same red line. He really starts to do that. And those are the takes he's going to end up using more the ones without words. And yeah, we're talking about how unique of a filmmaker he is. There's no one else who does this. Well, there's there's also as we get for more and more forward, I actually started this is the first one I started writing down. just bits of like dialog I really liked. but you also kind of get to feel that with the sparseness of these words, if there is a character saying something as is, particularly as he moves on in his career, like these are important things. but I just love there's, the voiceover from the little girl. She just goes, you know, you know how people are. You tell them something, they start talking. Yeah. I just just like it. I like that a lot. There's a line that he says in here that the he says again in, Knight of Cups. Oh, wow. Yeah. I never wanted to fall in love with you. And then she goes, I never asked you to. He says that in another movie, I love that. So, like, there's just things that I was, like, picking up with. I was like, these are, like the themes that you're these are things that you're after in your experience, in life, in your time here. These are things that have probably come your way, that have affected you, or things that have moved you, or things that you've got questions about. And he just putting that in all of his movies. I love that, you know, cinematography of this movie has been much discussed, much discussed because Nestor Alma Endo sorry about that. The original DP, he was mostly blind, which was like a thing so he could like see, look through the viewfinder, get really close and like set up the shots and be like, okay. Yeah. And because, movie schedule is that wild there? Because the movie schedule ran long. Because Malick is, like, doing things his own way and the crew is bucking up against him. Nestor had a prior commitment, and he had to leave early. He will, Nestor and Malick. They bring on Haskell Wexler, famous DP, and there's like a week transition where the DPS are, you know, getting all the notes, all the downloads that Nestor so that hacks Haskell can come on and finish the job. And he does. He finishes the cinematography. But but in his long career, Terrence Malick's long career of beautiful imagery, amazing films, all of his movies have produced one Academy Award. That's it. But only one Oscar has been won for a Terrence Malick movie, and that was for Best Cinematography for days of Heaven. It won rightfully, but there was a little controversy of like, who shot what? What was it? Yeah, that all pretty much got squashed because it was like, no, Nestor like, set this up. He did it. Haskell came in and he was the relief pitcher. I was the relief pitcher. I didn't know he was mostly blind until this 4K. They just like, set in a special feature. And I went, wait, what? And they were like, yeah, he really couldn't see well. And I get really close to the camera like the viewfinder is the set up, the shots, it's nuts. It's like the start of a bad joke. Yeah, yeah. A blind cinematographer walks into the room. Move that chair. No, it's like it's it's it's kind of hilarious. You're like how? And then it wins. Best cinematography. It's nuts. It's just nuts. Oh, Mike. I love that. That's that's great. And then evidently. Right. Pretty shortly after days of Heaven was finished, after, I don't know if it was the editing or the filming. He wrote The New World, and he wanted to make it pretty much in its 2005 incarnation, like as we saw it. He wrote that and Billy Weber, the editor for 20 years, was like, you have to make this you. This script is beautiful. You have to make the new world. You have to, you have to. So that's what a lot of people thought he was working on in that time. But I and I think like 20 years. Yeah. And I think he was but he was a lot of that was dedicated to the tree of life as well. Yeah. Yeah. Which is interesting that it's not going to be our next movie. But yeah. Days of Heaven. So cool that this was your first watch I no idea I yeah, yeah, that was always like the one that got away. You know, there's a couple of ones that I seen for the very first time. This one, this watch. Oh, okay. The, To the wonder. Yeah. I knew that was when I knew you hadn't seen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that those are the only two. Okay. I've seen all the other. Okay. Yeah. Good. Shit. All right. One thing just to say to kind of wrap up these two movies before we move on and depart and part as, as he does. Yeah. both of these movies are around the 90 minute mark. Yeah, yeah. And I just want to point that out because we just live in a time, for the most part right now, where the 90 minute movie doesn't seem to really exist, at least not in the mainstream. I'm like, we'll get some Netflix movies or some streaming straight to streaming. That will be shorter. But you know, if you're seeing the movie in the theaters, you're talking at least to 90 minutes. It's the 90 minute movie, man. I'm talking as you're talking. I'm trying to think of like, what was the last, like, really highly acclaimed 90 minute movie? I don't even know when was it? I don't know. And so all I'm saying is, is that for anyone who hasn't seen these movies, number one, go see them. But then also just appreciate like what could be done in 90 minutes, especially days of Heaven. Like what I was saying, like to get that sweeping epic of a feeling. But you're only watching a 90 minute movie. We can bring these back people. Yeah, we we certainly can. 90 minute movies like you're in, you're out, you get everything and you're happy. Hello. Goodbye. Yeah, I agree, I agree. You can watch the double feature of Badlands and Days of Heaven for less. The time that it would take you to watch Babylon. Yeah. Yeah, honestly. Or probably even his most recent film. His most recent film is his longest. Like he's he's had a Hidden Life is his longest actual running time. It's about three hours. It's right up there at three hours. And he's done some extended cuts. Yeah, he's done some extended cuts. But the article releases, so he. Yeah he's even on that. So yes you can I but I do love that if you're going to criticize some of Malick's films for being long and slow, it's like, okay, I hear you on that for, let's say, The New World. But if you go back to Badlands, like, yeah, it's a puncher, you're just in and out and it's yeah, yeah. And these might be the only two. Terrence Malick movies that you actually like. That's. I think that's a very real reality for a lot of people. For a lot of people. Yeah. So 20 years go by, 20 years go by dog, 20 years go by. It is we're going to talk about those 20 years influence, another movie that I think is still regarded as maybe his sparse film and his maybe his least loved, I don't know, to the wonder, we're going to get there, we're going to get there. But next up is it, you know, we've done our top ten lists on this. It was our very first episode. And then we kind of re-edited them a little bit. But if if it's going to 11, my 11 favorite film of all time is The Thin Red line. I love that you're after it. Yeah, well, it's not even an asterisk because it just it's just there like it's it's 11. Yeah, it's not you know, if I was going to go 1 to 20 that would be 11. So not Oppenheimer. Take that. No, not Oppenheimer smartass. Take that for what you will. yeah. We have talked about this movie a lot on this podcast here. He's getting $52 million and everyone wants a piece. Everyone wants to be involved. Sean Penn had had heard rumblings. Maybe Malik might come back. So Sean Penn reaches out and basically gets a a lunch meeting with Malik. Like coffee, I think in Texas this is like 95, 96 or even earlier and says, look, if you do something again, I want in and I'll do anything. It does not matter. Like I'll be whatever role you want, I'll get paid whatever I get paid. And that is actually why this in Red line was able to get made, because Sean Penn was, you know, he was this is like his bad boy era. Yeah. But he was a star at the time. He's still star, but he could get it. Wasn't like the whole movie can get greenlit because of Sean Penn. But Sean Penn comes on on board, is making it clear that he's getting paid scale, which is, you know, very little and is making it clear because Malik goes, if you sign on for this, you have to commit like years, a year of your life, potentially of filming in Australia, like we're leaving, we're gone. And this is you can't quit because I need my people there. And because Sean Penn came aboard, that gave a lot of other actors the confidence to come on board. So that's kind of how, you know, it got made, which I really, which is just great, but that's cool. Yeah, it is very cool. And this, this film also has a commentary if you have the criterion, which I highly recommend, the cinematographer, the editor, it's so great. One of them, I don't remember which one it is in the beginning says the first line of this movie is, what is this war in the heart of nature? That is what the movie is about. Yeah. And he's they say Malick, Terry spelling it out for you right here. This is about that, this beautiful landscape of nature. These birds exist. Everything exists. But then there's this horrific war that doesn't make sense. Going on is being fought for no reason. But but, but but there's always a but. This is going to end our thin red line discussion. Oh, on this podcast, I'm very sorry to people because I don't want people to feel slighted at a movie that I love so much, and it's a movie that gets a lot of attention. You know, it brought his career back. He got nominated for Oscars. But our very next episode, folks, is a commentary. Oh, please keep it real. I got it here. I'm so excited. It's gonna I, I always wanted to do because we did Saving Private Ryan. And I always thought it'd be fun to do Terrence Malick or. Or The Thin Red line. We're going to be in a, I think, a clear state of mind for this commentary. But that's what we're doing. We're well, okay. Jesus, that's what we're doing. So we're gonna if you want more facts like that. I know I've researched and studied this movie so, so much. I love it, and it is enough to contain a commentary. So we're going to talk. We're going to have fun. It's not going to be stuffy. Nothing like that. So tune in. That will be our next episode. But yeah, I love The Thin Red line. That's why we're doing a commentary. Well, I look forward to that. It's going to be great. Tell you what I did. Well, I mean, because if people don't have time to listen to this and then a commentary, give me some thin red line thoughts though from you. And how do you like it? How do you like it? I fucking love it. I, well, when was the last? When was the last episode? We talked about the favorite of 1998. Yeah, yeah, when it was. Are both of our number ones? Yeah. It, no, I don't Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I apologize. It was your number two. Yes, I feel solid number two, though. It's beautifully horrific. And that push and pull of our human nature, as beautiful as it can be. And as awful as it can be and everything in between. Right. I think in some ways, touched on in this movie with a very, very profound, delicate touch. Yeah, this this is it's my favorite war film. I think it's the movie that lets its audience know about the true turmoil of war, the true hell, the true and utter lack of humanity, of war. Better than any movie to me. To me, without being overtly violent, without being. I mean, it has violent, sure, but he's going to focus on, you know, that Japanese soldiers face just like, buried in. We're on that shot for so long. And yeah, I had a real profound, viewing experience with this recently after we recorded the 1998 pod, because my father in law, who, you know, Joe, he's he's a real character. He's 87 years old. He's our thing is to watch movies together. And now he does trust me because I kind of know his tastes. But I definitely thought he likes war movies. And I'm like, I don't I don't know if this is going to be too, like, lyrical for him because he's a guy who likes action movies. He likes that stuff and he's a big talker. He has, you know, he's just a big talker. He likes to talk during movies, and he didn't say a word the whole time. This was. Oh, and when they storm that village and you see the complete horror on the Japanese soldiers, he looked at me and he said, I've never seen this in a movie before. I care as much about them as I do about the Americans, if not more. And that just happened in this sequence. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And so it was it was really great. And he said that was it was his favorite war movies ever seen. He goes, I can't believe I never heard of it. It was it was great. More on that much, much, much more. Stay tuned. We're so excited to talk about it. if you were going to add one additional beer to the six pack of Cusack, I'm putting the thin Red line. I love it. John Cusack in this movie is just great. You know, McNulty was like dead ass sick during that big convo of theirs. Oh, really? Oh. So sick. And you know, John Cusack isn't even saying anything. Yeah, and notice, after they said cut, he would go and, lay on like a medical card, just like, right off camera. He was so sick. Note he's not notI Nulty wrote a novel for his character. I'm not using that like metaphorically, like a book. He wrote a full autobiography of Colonel Tall. And so he knew everything about him. He just everything that's and showed it to me was like, wow, great. I think that's why it's lived in. You know, the movie's based on a book and it's there's even an original movie in the 60s. But yeah, yeah, we'll get into all that. All right. Yeah, we'll save it. We'll see you be great. Yeah. So sorry. I never want to. It's like when we did the Marty Cliff. Pardon. We kind of skirted over place in sun, but we had already done that episode, so it's just happened sometimes. But I promise the commentary will be worth it. And if you don't, if you're not able to actually, like, sync it up with the movie, we really try to make the commentaries good to stand on their own. We do. We try to keep talking. I don't think we try. We just do. Just do. All right. We just thank you. Let's move on to a big project of his that you thought about for a long time. Coming to the new World. Pocahontas to John Smith. Let's get it, I love it. Pocahontas has never once said in this movie, that name is never said it's not. No, they call her Rebecca. They switch, they get the two. Rebecca. But before Rebecca, we never hear her name. I put it on subtitles. It says it'll say Pocahontas colon. That's who's speaking. Oh, but never it never say never. They never say that. Okay, okay okay I love that. So this movie comes out and now I'm like, I'm a Malik fan. I'm in college. I'm obsessed with the thin red line. Anyone who knows me is like, probably come over to watch it and this comes out $30 million. And yeah, like I said, when we started, like I was just I never really seen a romance, like, cut together like this and the passing off from one character to another, I just, I love this movie. I absolutely adore it. And I have something as we go. Just remind me to tell a funny, the funny editing story about this. I mean, there's a lot of editing stuff, but yeah, the we're going to talk about the theatrical cut because it's one most people have seen. I watched both there's a theatrical and an extended cut that is longer. He turns it into chapters. Some of the chapter titles are cute, like On Purpose and a Little Funny, and it leads a little bit to where we're going and you can tell that he just had a little more fun with it. If this is what I'll say. He's done this twice with his movies. He's, made them longer. This the New World and Tree of Life. If you like the New World theatrical cut, you will like the extended version, because it's just a little. It's like scenes are just a little bigger and it breathes a little more. So please check it out if you can. But either version is, this is really an astounding movie to me. And, maybe my favorite Malick ending. and I think I may have to agree. Yeah. It is. Oh my god. But quick, weird thing to bring up here. Bring it up. So I'm a Roku, man. Okay. All right. That's how I search for my movies. Oh, like the streaming. Like the streaming platform. Yeah. So I put in the new world to see if it was streaming anywhere for free. It was. But what I was finding was that there was three. Yeah, different version. Okay. One was two hour and 12 minutes, which I'm assuming that was the theatrical one. There was two hours and 52 minutes, which I'm assuming is the extent has to be. Yeah. And then there was one that was two hours and 29 minutes. Wow. I didn't even know that's out there. That's the first cut. I watched all three of these. They're all in the criterion. Those are out there for public to watch. Yeah. The different platforms that you did to pay different money for. Oh that's cool I didn't know that. But there's no, there's, there's didn't tell you the difference. No. Oh my. I only knew the difference because of the time, the runtime. And that was like because they don't say extended cut. Wow. And it's the same graphics right on each one. So I'm like, well, I guess, well, I knew I wanted to watch the theatrical because, I think that was the one that I first saw it on. Okay. And I wanted to kind of rewatch that one. Yeah, yeah. So there are technically three cuts of it. Yeah. I thought, the other two, you can only find on the criterion. I did watch the early cut as well, that it was great to start with that. See how it was like a little bloated. They had to tighten it up for theatrical release and then expanding it for the extended. But that's still being better than the first cut. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. So that's cool. So, well, I'm glad you watched it and figured it out. The, you know, the first time I saw this movie, I wasn't ready. I was. So you didn't like it? I didn't yeah, I I've heard that a lot. Yeah, yeah, just like too slow too. Yeah. Yeah, I watched it actually, when I was in Vancouver. Okay. And I was, I was doing the Canadian National Voice intensive, so I was pretty much wrapped up into a whole entire crazy acting world. And, I would watch movies, when I was at home and I watched The New World, I didn't know because I hadn't seen Badlands. I hadn't seen, I hadn't even seen The thin Red line yet. So I didn't really know who Terrence Malick was. I'd heard this. So you're saying this is your first? This is my first, Malick. Okay. And, Man, I didn't know what to do with it. I totally get it. I was absolutely I was like, that's a lot not happening. And I wasn't in the mood to, like, have this movie wash over me, which is, I think what it needs to do. Yeah, I think maybe more so than any of the other movies. I think this is a movie, which is why I it starts with the beautiful shot of water. Oh, I think this is a movie that really you just need to let it just go. It just has to flow. It does. It really does. And it really will land if you stick with it. In the ending, the last like 5 to 10 minutes are exactly the same in every cut. It doesn't matter of the cut. It's it's exactly the same. The biggest compliment that I have is, is toward the end. But maybe we should work towards it. We will work toward it. Well, kind of, because they use that song, Das Rheingold. He uses it three different times. This song is like it's so haunting because it's just one chord. It's an E-flat major constantly, like rising and rising and rising and flowing like water. So he's using it in the beginning. We go see the water, and then we go up and we see the three ships. So you give us an example of the D-flat F minor. I can't I'm doing it right now in editing, and I'll play it. There you go, folks. How do you like that? I'm not going to like it. Do I need to sing it? No, no. It didn't. We in the beginning of the movie of the New World, we see three women in the movie in the water. When the song is playing in the beginning. In the beginning of Das Rheingold, the actual thing, there are three women guarding magic, gold in the river, and a man comes and says he wants the gold. I did not know this until researching this podcast. Almost every song that Malick uses in his movies actually matches the intention of why the song was even made. That's not that. It's not just because this sounds great. This all sounds great. The intention of it is actually fits with the theme of his movie, and he does this constantly. And I don't know that watching it, but it has to lend itself to like the the appreciation of it somehow. I don't know, it. it's just it's perfect. It's one of my favorite uses of music in any movie. I think we're like in 2001 territory here. I just think it's gorgeous. I think it's beautiful. But you're right. We should lead up to the ending. Yes. So ages ago, a movie called Don't Look Up came out and we spent a a little of that episode, calling out to editing of that film and how there's a lot of it. And one man in particular, Hank Corwin. Hank Corwin is one of the editors of The New World. And now we're going to have a little justice for Hank Corwin stuff. This guy is a great interview because he tells it like it is. There's no there's just no pretense. And he's like, yeah, this is a pain in the ass to edit. It's oh, I bet Malick is magnificent. He allowed me to see the world in a different way, but it was just, you know, not being able to make decisions, all that stuff. It's it's really. There were three editors involved and they would all work on, specific sequence or specific, like portion of the movie, but then Terry would just change it up and reassign stuff. So it's like, hey, you, Hank, you were working on, I don't know, like the the battle scene when they, you know, come back and then they it's like accidental battle. Now, I want you to stop that and go work on the beginning. So it was constantly moving like that and constantly changing. And one of the editors tell talks about cutting a scene where Smith returns and is arguing with, you know, Colin Farrell returns and is arguing with David Thewlis and, you know, and they're like. And one of them, you're like, oh, shit. One of them is like about the dikes. Where have you been? Where you been? And Terry said to cut out cut for the emotion, because if you watch it, it's cutting constantly. And people are like standing in different areas. So don't cut for continuity. Don't make sure it doesn't matter if everyone's like standing in the exact same place. Just cut for emotion. And he keeps on doing that and it's I don't know, it just shouldn't work. All this jump cutting should and shouldn't work, but it it really does. It's like even though it may feel like when you're watching a malick movie that there are no rules and there is no structure, there actually are a lot of rules like cut out, don't worry about continuity, cut on emotion. When we say like, I don't know anyone making movies this way, that is true, but I it's because of this editing. I don't know anyone else who assembles films this way to wild is and that is that must go for not just like that heated emotion in that scene, because I'm thinking of all these cuts now. Yeah, just everything like this. Like the sweeping, like love between her and Colin Farrell. Rebecca to Rebecca. Yeah. And like how there are a lot of those cuts where it. Yeah, things aren't the same. I never really mind that though. Like, I never I never get taken out of that. Yeah. because I think I get what the, what he's doing, you know, like in his, in those moments. Because you can also kind of justify that for yourself if you want to. Like if you talk about the David Thewlis scene, you know, he's coming back and then you get this cut. Yeah. It's almost like shocking. Yeah. If you're putting yourself in Colin Farrell shoes, it's sort of like, wait, you're really coming at me right now? Wait, this is happening. Wait. This is like, you know, you're kind of just, like, doing all this net, so it feels like you're in his headspace. but but it's actually cutting on Thewlis too. So you could even argue that on his point of view, it's like I've been waiting to say this and this and this take. I'm taken over. Right? Like the the emotion cutting. It is visceral, but it also logically makes sense if you're willing to kind of think a little bit outside the box about it. Yeah. Things are heated in an argument. You don't like it. It can be like jerky and cut you like. Yeah. And I love that. That's just like one example of it. And yeah, they're doing that style. Or there were three editors so that he would split it up and just give everyone different sections. It's crazy. And then you hope all of this somehow comes together. They shot over 1,000,000ft of film. Wow. 1,000,000ft. That's how crazy they let, Colin Farrell shoot a little bit, operate the camera like Colin Farrell. Yeah. He like, at that time. Yeah, well, I think he was okay right now. I think he was a few years later or the next year when it got rough. But yeah, they would let him just hold hold the camera and he filmed Chorionic Kilcher is her name. Who's playing Pocahontas slash. Rebecca. She's so good. She was 14 when they started making this wait for 14. 14 when they started filming this. Yes, yes. That's serious. You yo. Why they kiss? but not like that heavy makeout. I'm sure all of it was like, you know, talked about and agreed upon there. Probably parents there and stuff, you know, that stuff. But yeah. But yeah, time and Colin Farrell said the camera really became like a piece of nature. And you had to get used to the fact that you could be just like locked in with your scene partner and you're doing it and it's great. And then Terry could just see and be like, oh, look, it's last. And like, see this bird and just move the camera to like, film a fucking bird. And you had, you could, you can either get on board with that or not. And some people like, Christopher Plummer, God bless him, did not have a good time in this movie. He was very open about it. And that's why we've heard some people, you know, not have the best of times because it's kind of goes back to the crew of days of Heaven, like, yeah, what the hell's going on here, man? This isn't how it's done. But if you're on board, then it can work. You have to be there to service the movie. That's what it is. Yeah. And you. And there's a level of freedom I think you need. you just have to be willing to kind of not know anything. Yeah, you may have your lines, but they're going to change because he's going to give you new ones. I think, you know, is the actor like what the intent of the scene is and what you need to kind of convey? Yeah, that's true. But how you get there, like, you know, you don't have to be in your mark. You don't have to do this or that. Like you can kind of play in there. And I think as we go on, because this is one of those movies where you starting that departure. Yeah, there, there is, there is a plot and narrative to this movie, but similar to The Thin Red line where there isn't there isn't. And at the same time you're following it, but there's there's a freedom. And I think certain actors work better in these. Yeah, situations and others. I think there's some like I think Bale is okay. I was just going to say you drop him and he's perfect, but he fits so well into this world. It seems like he likes it too. Like he he's because he is the kind of guy that's just going to he wants to explore. He, he he probably strikes me as the type of guy who doesn't like a lot of rules. Oh, like as an actor. Yeah. Yeah. I think he loved the freedom of it. Yeah, exactly. And it's why he's come back. Exactly. Any times. Yeah. There's a few lines in here that I want to shout out to. This movie is one of my favorite lines that I actually stole. And I was good. I know what it is. Yes. I don't want to say it because I want, I want, I want. You can keep it. No, because then people listen to and then your movie comes out. They're going to be like, that's not going to come out. I mean, oh, it's good. It was no one at the time. I'm not saying it. I'm not saying was good. you know that I know, yeah. When I, I swear on my life when I watch it for this, I did not remember that it was from that I was going to I didn't remember. And I went, oh, is it like an issue that I took this line and it's. No. And then I went, no. Like, I will always be able to pay homage to that. All right. You're right. We won't say yeah. And then when the movie comes out, we can do a commentary and then I'll be like, you remember, oh, I remember this is the one. Yeah. Oh, I love that line. But it's a great it's a line from her. Yeah. Very just. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love this. And some of it's, you know, some of this is kind of cheesy, but I think it's also in the delivery. like a Colin Farrell just says this one point is like real. What? I thought a dream. this is just a great line, love. Shall we deny it when it visits us? Right. And like these, just these kind of like, now these are, like, just poetic. This is where he's really starting to experiment with. Yeah. The poetic nature of voice over and, you know, mirroring these questions or these beautiful lines with this imagery. This is where I think the departure really happens because I think you either have that patience and that kind of admiration for that and getting get lost in the wonder of it as opposed to, okay, keep going. Like, what are we doing here? Like, we don't need to hang on this like, like a bug on a leaf. Sure, sure. You're saying all this? I love that this is just one of my favorite, like, dialog driven movies from him. It might be my favorite. Oh, that's. I don't know. I have to, because thin red line's got some. Yeah, it does, but that's also based off of a book of a book and a lot of the, best like dialog from that movie is right from this is right from just read the book. Yeah, it might be my favorite original dialog because of that. But, let's get into some of the, the acting here. We started talking about Bale a little bit, but, yeah, I one of my favorite bits of just acting from this and everything in the movie working together, because they would just film them, they would fit, like when they get together and she's living with Bale. It would just film them doing stuff like working on the crops. It's not. I'm sure there was some direction, but there they were filming them for like hours just doing stuff. And then that scene when she walks up to and falls over in the mud and her feet, gets stuck. That was all an accident. It happened once in his little last laugh and then not breaking and then embracing. It's like I'm getting chills talking like that's the beauty of it. That's what Terrence Malick is looking for. Yeah, you shoot 1,000,000ft of film and then bam, that happens once and that's in the movie. There it is. It's it's actually kind of cast of is like it is way. It is like Cassavetes was just always he would work so much faster with so much less. Sure. And and you know, his movies were about different things, but I mean, ultimately he was just trying to get that the most human moment that he could get. and, and if he got it for a second to call it good and move on. Yeah. But, but Malick is just spending all of this time finding it, and. But that's why it's taken with so much care. You get that moment. It feels like you have just caught a rare moment in life. I remember, even the second time watching it when Bale shows up, because he does like the the cut to Bale. It's just right. It's just right there because she goes and gives water to like that. That person is captured or yelling and boom, it just cuts to him. In the theatrical. It's like an hour and 40 into the movie. Yeah. And the extended. You're a solid two hours into the movie before he shows up. And it's jarring. It's very jarring. And I immediately thought about it. I go, oh no, here comes this predatory guy. He's just he sees something he likes. He's the new like, not like leader of this whole thing, but he's the new white man who's come in and assumed the leadership position of power. And here it comes. Going to take her away. He's going to be the awful man of this of this story. And what, absolute beautiful, full turn. Yeah. Because he's not that. He's just he's very gentle soul who just has moved here to farm. And he was a tobacco farmer, just like to make his living doing that. And there what she has with Colin Farrell is one thing that's like discovering love. And you feel that. And then what she has with him is security. You know, she has this, this, this could be the father of my child. Yeah. This. This right here. This. What you're talking about right now is my compliment to this movie. I, I don't think I've ever experienced. And I think this is something that just takes life. You need to kind of live life through a certain amount of time. Just, whether it's your own personal experience or you've seen it, people can feel about each other one way at one time. Yes. And that can change for no real reason. Life like. Yeah. And and you know, what I loved about this was you experienced this first love and all of that fiery passion that there is between Colin Farrell and and Rebecca. and, you know, she thinks that he's dead. Yeah. Yeah, that's what she's told, that he's dead and she's carrying this flame for, who she thinks is dead. and then Bale comes around, and she still doesn't want it. She she's she's grieving. She's grieving. And this guy, it doesn't seem like. You know, Bale even says to her, he's like, you don't love me right now, but someday you will. And he doesn't say that in a way, it's like you'll learn to love. Yeah. Woman. Like he he's it's gentle, it's gentle. And. And then when she gets word that Colin Farrell might be alive. This is one of my favorite. We're talking about dialog. One of my favorite dialog exchanges in the movie. He's my husband. Yeah. And he's like husband. You don't know the meaning of the you don't know the meaning of the word, but she actually does like she's there wasn't a formal ceremony, there wasn't anything signed. But they were, for all intents and purposes, together in like in a union ship in a partnership. And I, I just love that and I love oh my God, I love the space of him letting her seem, oh, that because it's like I, I've I've done you a disservice. Like I brought you here. Yeah. I didn't let you, you know, ride this thing out and see what's there. And now. Shit. We've we're in England. We got kids, but I. I have to do it. I have to resign myself and let you to have your moment or and whatever. That's going to be like. I'm like, you may very well and more than likely from where he was when he did this. Yeah. You're probably going to choose him. Yeah. You're going to leave me. You're going to leave me. But I need to. We need to do this. And we're. And I honestly, the second time watching it, I don't remember what happened. So I'm watching this. And when they meet up it's it's played. It's so well played because it's not like anyone does anything wrong. It's not like there is this crazy easy like separation of like, oh, you are not the person that I thought. Like they see each other again. They're they are reacquainted with what was there before. They're having lovely conversation but I don't this is what I don't I don't get how he does this. There's no dialog that expresses it. There's no actual real action or even a look. But we're as the audience as these scenes are playing out, realizing they don't have this anymore. Yeah. It's gone. We I don't it's kind of okay. It's yeah, it is, it's okay. And they're both accepting that like, yeah, I had a thing back there and yeah Jenna now it life's gone on. And but she needed to know if it was exactly. And and it and and for him for Colin Farrell to I don't I always wonder like what he was hoping to get out of it. It I don't think it was actually her I agree I don't I think I peace of mind maybe. Yeah peace of mind or he was the one who told the guy. Yeah, yeah. And and so maybe there's like a bit of like like guilt about it, but but either way, you know, it when she comes back to bail and, and just kind of she locks her arms in his. And then the camera goes over and I've had chills the whole fucking time. We've been talking about this. And when she looks at him and says, can we not go home? And you, I'm like, I'm not getting emotional. Yeah. Like because he doesn't know how she's going to Jesus Christ and it's going to happen. She doesn't know how he's how she's got bail, does not know how she's going to respond. So he doesn't know if like, the next thing she says to me is, this is over. Like, I'm going to go be with him and just, his body just sinks into her and she interlocks, arms with him. And then can we not go home? And he's like, right away. Yeah, yeah, as soon as possible. Oh my God, it's beautiful. I can't believe I'm getting a boat. Oh, you're fucking crying, right? Any fucking cry? yeah, I, I just, I really I really don't understand how that was communicated in the way that it was because like we were saying about like there was no dialog, there was no real obvious being like, oh, this isn't a thing. But to communicate that it there was something between us that meant so much at a time and that it's not there anymore. And it's okay. That's crazy. That's so like deep and yeah, real that to put that in the last five minutes. Yeah. Ten minutes. I like to, to get all that like that's what I mean. Like how do you like, you know, Terrence Malick has this idea. Yeah. Like he's like, all right, I really want to have this come across, but I'm going to do it in my way. Yeah. Which is not explaining it at all. And then hope that through my actors and my crew and my intent that it comes across as it ever. Holy shit. Because it's not only that, it's that like acceptance of, okay, we had our thing. It's good. I'm going to go back to my husband. And that's emotional. And then the emotion of them getting back together. Yeah. And then we're going. And now now Bogner starting and it's going in the kids running and playing around. And she's happy. And then he does something that, you know I just didn't I didn't expect because I wasn't up to date on my Pocahontas history. She dies. She dies like right then. And we hear Bale's narration, you know, and he says the date and he's writing to his son. And then it's it's very it's it's very easy. He's we see her hand like holding him. He's crying. And it's something like she said that for you to live was enough. You know, for our son to live was enough. Everyone dies. Essentially. And that's like, oh my God. And then he and the son are get back on the ship. And I'm like, Jesus is just going and going, this. It gets me just every time. So yeah, it's as we're sitting here talking about it, I do. It's one of my favorite movie endings ever, but I do think it's my favorite ending of his career. I just, I yeah, I think it even the final shot it rests on it never left my head. The tree there and then the something like falls down and it cuts but the tree swaying and hey, Hank, Corwin said early on he latched on to that as the final shot. He just realized that's going to be the final shot. And without telling that to Malick, and Malick wanted that to be the final shot as well. So when they did it, it's like, yep, there it is. And that always sticks out in my mind. So does that little plant in the thin red line just, oh, you're like, yeah, stuff like that. Just, I don't know sticks out in my mind. I got I love it, I love it. Yeah. This is a great film. I'm so glad that you warmed up to it, but also totally understand that when you first saw it, it wasn't for you as a first Malick. It's a tough sell. It's a I it might it would probably be the Malick I, I'm trying to think of like the if as we're talking about this podcast, if we were to recommend a malick first, this would fall far down on that list, right? I would not recommend this one. First. but I don't think I recommend it last either. No, no, no, not first, not last. Yeah, you need to. You should be a little more a little more warmed up to it. Yeah, I think I think the thin red line is honestly great place to start because it's it's a war movie. So that's some convention. But then he's putting his own Malick ness into it. So it's deviating from convention, and you're getting a little taste of the both sides of him, because by the time we get to the later career, he's just fully into the abstract thing. And then a little earlier with Badlands and Days of Heaven, they're a little more conventional. I mean, not like, I mean, they're conventional for Malick's movies, not for like overall movies. So I think The Thin Red line is a great place to start if you're new. You know what I was going to say? No. Oh, really? I was going to disagree. But now that, yes, I'm thinking about it, I think you might be right. Oh, there we go. Because, we're you going to say song to song? The. No. Because. Yeah. You can't you because because almost in a way like you can't recommend Badlands are days are heaven first because there's like, they're not teeing you up for the. Yeah, yeah. Thin red line is even though people who might be looking for a war movie will probably be disappointed, but you'll still get some war. You will get the war stuff. Yeah, yeah. So that's you know, I think there's I don't know, there's enough in it. I think that's his most accessible to get the full Terrence Malick vibe, to get the experience, the team experience. Here it is. Trance. Friends, meditation, transcendental meditation, transcendental meditation. Good try. Now we're going. I mean, God, now we're moving on to this is his magnum opus. Whether we all want to objectively call it his best film, I don't know. I think this was the movie he always wanted to make. I think he became a filmmaker to make The Tree of Life. Yeah, he spends a very long time filming it, a very long time editing it. I'm hearing about it constantly. I thought it was going to come out in 2009 and 2010. Now it's summer 2011. This thing's commonality. At 52, he had rather 32 million to make the Tree of Life. And, you know, this is the movie he thought about for decades. And you can really tell. And this is also a movie that's very difficult to talk about in an episode like this, because we don't have a full deep dive 2.5 hours. But, this is another one that has a theatrical cut, and then it has an extended cut that's about 55 zero minutes longer. Things breathe a little more. It's not like we're meeting whole new characters, I mean, sometimes, but they're not major characters. And that is, of course, the full the full representation of what he was trying to say. I highly recommend that. But if you just see the theatrical, oh, does it work? And. Oh yeah, yeah, I have we got a lot to talk about as we go through this one. I'm not really sure where to even start. I have a lot of I'm going to focus a lot of my notes on the music and the visual effects for it. Then I'll take on the acting. Cool. That sounds good. I have been itching to say something since we first started this podcast, and I wanted to say it before we started recording Scratch in scratch? No. And then you said something and I was like, oh my God, do I want to say this so badly? Holy shit. All right, so let me just get to some of the music really quick because also like the New world, all the music in this movie specifically like the creation sequence, it all fits why the song was made specifically. And this is not all like deep, deep classical music. So Lacrimosa, which is, you know, that beautiful opening note and we're like seeing the planet. It's the first time we're seeing it and it goes on. That song was composed by a guy named Zbigniew prisoner. So I'm no, I'm getting first name wrong, but the last name is prisoner. He did the music for the Three Colors trilogy. Oh, and that song, Lacrimosa, was made after his dearly departed friend Krzysztof Kieslowski died. So that's what it's for. So you're telling me that you feel Kieslowski and Malick? Here it is. That's. Wow. That's a fucking release. Yes, here it is. You. It's. Nice. It's. Okay. To bring back why? I feel that way about Kieslowski. Because I just realized I didn't connect that point. It's all right. It was the new world ending. Like how you indicate something through film like this very, very big idea in something that only film can do, right? Because you can't. There's no other way you can express that any other way. And that's how I feel about Kieslowski. But that was the connection that I made to to Malick. So it's all here. There's stuff I definitely feel Kieslowski when I watch Malick stuff. Yeah, yeah. So it's there. So I mean, there's so many oh my God, there's just so many things like the when they're at dinner and the Brahms starts and, you know, she's chatting and starts talking about Jack Whelan's paper and, you know, it cuts them off and goes up and it's like, no, what is it? What is it? Apparently that Brahms, it's his fourth Symphony. That was his last symphony. And music scholars consider that an extremely violent piece of music. There's a relentlessness, coldness, a darkness to it that was unlike anything else Brahms did. And so what musical scholars say is that is a supremely bizarre song to be playing at dinner, but it's perfect that that character was playing it at dinner, this, like, foreboding thing. And these are two small examples. The movie is filled with this. I'm not going to go through all of them, but it's it's just it's astounding how much thought has put into this stuff. Well, it's, that makes a lot of sense because one of the biggest notes that Malick had for Chastain and Brad Pitt, for their characters is that, you know, they're a mother and father. They're the parents of this the the main boy. Yeah. but they're representing two different things. is Jessica Chastain as the mother is representing the the motherly, nurturing quality. and then Brad Pitt is she's Grace and he's. Yeah, exactly. Which is what the whole movie is about, the fiery particular nature. And that's juxtaposed. Yes. There it is. With so much of the creation of life and earth through the violent, chaotic things that happen, like the volcanoes, the storms, the formation, like everything that violently happens in nature is living in in his anguish. Yeah. And that he's taking out and then you've got Chastain. So you've got both of these elements playing all at once. So to have that music playing in that setting, watching him shoot up and go off makes so much sense, because it's still a beautiful piece of music. And you got Chastain, who's trying to keep everything together, right? And, I know I jumped to with the music, but the opening of this movie, like the first, when we're far kind of forward in the story, the oldest will see Chastain, the oldest will see the Brad Pitt character. I don't feel like this gets talked about a lot, you know? I mean, the movie actually, like, really, really begins with that young Chastain like being held by her. Oh yeah. And that's when she's explained to us that they're they taught us, the nuns taught us that there are two ways through life the way of nature, the way of grace. And I love that whole setup. And then we jump way far ahead to that son dying, which is not something we see. It's just communicated with us and they're talking about all that. So we see, like this collapse of them in this really heartbreaking moment. And we don't know how, to me, when I now rewatch the movie, I'm like, damn, she's still with this guy. She died. She never left of Holy shit. And then, yes, we jump ahead to the Sean Penn stuff, which I have always found hyper affective. This guy just longing who never got out of this, out of this rut. But as a viewer, you're like, what the fuck is going on here? You were just like seeing old Brad Pitt. And he's like, sad that his son died in like. And now we're jumping ahead seeing this architect and I love this rhythm that it's, you know, setting up and we're going and then yeah shortly we're going to fall into this 30 minute creation sequence, which is like, I mean, other movies have attempted stuff like this. There's, you know, the Journey to Jupiter in 2001, but it is it's so big and bold and I can't I just can't believe you pulled it off. Will dedicate a whole section to the creation sequence, but yeah, let's start talking about the actors, because Jessica Chastain was not known when this movie came out. This was like her huge break. And she talked about how just like everyone else would have auditions and, then Terrence Malick basically is like, all right, let's go out for lunch. And in that lunch, she was like, it was also an audition. But what he would have her do is like in the middle of lunch, like, like, go up to that tree and, and start playing. A lot of this is on the criterion. Yeah. He like, filmed it with, like, a just a cruddy little camera. Yeah, you can see it and you can see her locking into it already. Oh it she. So you talk about actors that were like, I think she might be my favorite in all of his movies. All of his movies. Shit, man, that's a great call. Like, she she, she had an assignment and she embodies it to utter perfection and utter perfection. And she strikes me as that because, you know, we've done a whole entire episode on her. but she strikes me as the type of actor that is up for anything depending on who she's working with. And she. But this seemed like something that she enjoyed. Oh, very much like and and watching her with those kids. Yeah. That's how she would behave with them when they weren't filming. Just like, like acted like their mom a little bit. And if they were getting out of hand, she would corral them. They would make meals together. Yeah, yeah. Perfect with them. And and just being able to allow for things to happen. I think that's a lot of, theater training, to be honest, because there's so much stuff that will happen, on stage where, you know, ridiculous things, a prop will fall or accidents happen and you kind of learn to kind of like, live in those accidents and, and find the, well, not find, discover. Yeah. Something brand new. And I think Terrence Malick stuff lends itself to that. It's all about discovering the moments like that one where it's the butterfly. Yeah. Which is the big yeah, the big scene. You know, that there's probably so much joy that she had in this and also probably just like being like, oh my God, look what we're catching. You can kind of see it in her face because you don't. That is not CGI. You don't get to do that twice. They're just out there and it happens. And you can see the wonder on her like, Holy fuck, I can't believe this just happened. This is amazing. Yeah, it's going to be on film. It's exactly like the mud falling over in the new world. Like, you get this once and it's in the movie. It's just so great. So yeah. So. So she might be my absolute favorite performer performance performer in a Terrence Malick movie, especially as they get into this area. Yeah, and Pitt wasn't even supposed to be in it, right? Yeah. They don't they don't say who you don't know. Not don't. Heath Ledger, get the fuck out. He was working on it. Yeah, it was leading up to it. What? Yeah. I'm not joking. That's right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because he was still alive when they were planning that stuff and, like, trying to cast it and stuff. Yeah, I don't know. Now, let me be clear. I don't know if the man was committed. I don't know if he was signed on. I highly doubt it. Actually I don't I don't know that. But yeah, that was that's who he wanted. And that would have been wow, wow. I mean, you know, who knows. But yeah. Yeah. Man, that and then Pitt comes on as kind of a, a marketing selling point of the movie, and they're able to get not unlike Sean Penn with The Thin Red line because Pitt is in it, then you can have a sort of an unknown. Yeah. Why? You don't want someone at his stature. Because it's just it's going to be kind of an uneven balance, the way that it is set up where we know him. He's famous, but he's the blowhard asshole in the movie. Yeah. And we have no relationship with them. that's what worked so well in his performance. I don't think I ever really got the credit it deserved because it's just it's so lived in and you really have to listen to the things he throws away. Like, yeah, it was I was, a great musician like that or. Yeah, I have your brother has all these patents and there's so much resentment like I'm God's gift to man. No one's seen it because no one seen it. I'm going to take that out on my kids. Even even says I don't. Sorry. I don't remember if this is in the extended cut. I think it's only in the extended cut. He actually talks about his dad a lot, Brad Pitt, and how he was a very his dad was a very nice man and went door to door, was like a salesman, but never accomplished anything in his life. So then Brad Pitt's character saw that and turn that into hardness and turn that into, you know, doing, doing that stuff. But I also I just love as the movie goes on, Jack starts to get a little rebellious, and then we're just getting when he's like screaming. And Pitt's face, you know, she only loves me. And Pitt's like, he doesn't know how to deal with it anymore. And, talk about great dialog that one of their last conversations is, you know, I'm a more like you than her, and you just see Pitt be like, oh, shit. I mean, it's not obvious, but he's like, oh, man. Yeah, it's it's a really good. Pitt's performances are really good. authoritarian, strict guy without being, violent. Like, he's not overly violent. He doesn't beat them. He does. It's not like, you know, hitting them with belts or something, but he's. Yeah. Very strict. And the the rules that he sets up that he doesn't follow, you know, he can't put your arms on the table. He does. It's, it's just great. It's a great family dynamic that they have in this movie. Always reminded me of my grandparents. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, my, my my grandfather was never at least like, I being the grandson. I'm sure my, my mom and and, you know, my uncle and my and have different stories about it. But my grandfather was never really like, he's never violence, but he there was a coldness and, and I think more, more what it was really was that like, they just didn't really love each other at a certain point. I understand and sad, but it happens. And they were of the generation where you just don't get divorced. You don't you just you just don't. These two don't. They're still together with their son. I think that that's what it was. So it wasn't necessarily anything about their personality traits that reflected. But I think the the lack of love in the marriage and the fact that they stayed connected me to my grandparents. But I think the only reason I'm saying this is because we're reaching a point now in Malik's career with his filmmaking, where this is part of what you start to take on by watching the movies. Yeah. Is is what do these start to mean to you? Exactly. And like when we get to nightclubs, forget about it. I'm just going to be talking so personally about it, because it's just my feeling that this time was really some it's wow and but but this is where we're going a little bit with it. And that was a huge thing for me. Even the first time I saw it, I was like, I don't know why, I don't know how, but I thinking of my grandparents with this, A Tree of Life. Yeah, yeah, I love that. I mean, the way there's so many things that talk about this, like the way they shot this movie, you know, he's got Emmanuel Lubezki, Chivo who also shot The New World, but he's got him as a deep in the way that they you know, Jack Fisk is of course on board. They basically blocked off like this whole neighborhood, like five blocks of, of this neighborhood. So that if it's, you know. All right, it's time. It's time for dinner. So Jessica Chastain has to call in the boys for dinner. She can just walk outside, the camera follows her, and the camera can turn anywhere. And there's, you know, an old car down there. So everything was staged that the camera could just move wherever it wanted. And you really feel that freedom of running around and doing all this. So. Yeah. And then what's crazy is to utilize the sun because they're not using a lot of lighting. They're using available lighting. So the sun is their main light source for instance, like that kitchen table where they will often eat their meals. There was more than one set of that. They built that out in a few different houses in that neighborhood. So if you wanted to film, you know, a lunch or dinner scene, and it's nine in the morning and the sun is pouring through the window, good. You can do that. But if you still need to do that scene later in the day, the sun has moved, so you just move to a different fucking house and keep doing the scene. That's insane. That's nuts. And this is a $32 million movie. We're not in like the $200 million range. That's nuts. That means just to kind of like, just to literally paint this picture. You're talking about different houses, different houses, the same neighborhood that they went inside completely modeled the exact same way, with the exact same furniture and the exact same props. Yes. And just made a complete, absolute recreation for like 4 or 5 houses. Yes. And so and if you can't tell, then good. But they're the house that they use. And it wasn't necessarily like every house looked exactly the same. Like, say, if we only see one room of a house, like the boys bedroom could have been, like in a different house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the idea, yeah, was that we can. This way we can constantly keep filming. We don't have to wait for the light to change. Yeah, it's it's wild. And if you can't tell and that's good. But their, their house in it in the movie was not one house. It was not. It was like, they utilized a bunch of different houses and then all the crew just lived in that neighborhood, like there was a makeup house, there was a cinematography house. Like they all just live there, and that's how they got it done. That's good. That's so cool. Oh, my God, it's. I've never really I mean, I'm sure things are done like that, but to hear it explained I'm like, oh wow. And we need money. Yeah, yeah. In the way that you can in terms of the photography, the way that you can. Everyone is perfectly exposed inside during the scene, but an outside is exposed to perfectly. That is not easy to do. It's incredibly difficult to do. And basically the whole time that they're filming, he's on the camera, like adjusting the exposure as they go, because you can't leave your exposure because the light changes, changes. These are all very, very complicated things to do. And it he just pulls it off. To me it looks effortless, but I know it is not. No. And we're just talking about like the the house of the growing up stuff have a whole like there's a whole other aspect of the movie that is, you know, all this creation stuff that it's wild. Yeah. Oh, it's so fun to watch. They the way they did that, they broke it down into four categories there of that, of the creation scene, all the visual effects in the movies, four categories. And they were all created by different visual effects houses. So it wasn't one group working on this. So like the Astro physical stuff to do was the hardest stuff. That's everything in space where it's floating around. And when I was watching this for this viewing, I went, a lot of this looks like real. So then you watch the special features and they're pouring like heavy cream into blue liquid and fish tanks and filming it at high speed frame rates. And they're doing shit like that. And this how they filmed the effects for this movie was what Christopher Nolan used for Oppenheimer. How to film all those effects, doing them as practically as possible, just getting like some nerds and some engineers in like a room or a garage, and it's dusty and you're just doing shit. You're just like, it's some of it's not going to work, some of it will. And the way that it works to such a startling degree in the Tree of Life is really, really something. So that's the astro physical, right? I got a let me see if I can explain this. Jesus. I mean, he brings in Douglas Trumbull, who did the effects for 2001 A Space Odyssey. Yes, yes. 2001 A Space Odyssey. Correct. Okay, so a star in the sky, right? The way they would do their stars is that this is going to be a little hard to explain, but imagine you have like a black piece of poster board and you would poke uneven little pinpricks in it or like, keyholes or something. Then they're taking a light on the other side of that, shining it through that. So the lens flares like shining into the camera, and then you take that. And if you put that footage into your editing and zooms, scale it all the way down. So it's the size of a star, then you have a star and if you do that hundreds of times uniquely, then you have unique stars. That's how they did every fucking star in the movie. They're not digital. They're not just in there. So if you look, you can focus on any damn star and you'll see a little flicker. That's the actual flicker, like the lens flare in the real camera. This is not like this. I never even considered that. And then I tried it in my editing software. Like I just tried it. I was like, let me see if I can do this. And it totally worked. And it absolutely worked. I was like, oh my God. So yeah, I mean, so that's one aspect. And then they're doing the micro bill, which is all the stuff like, and I never consider this think about when you're looking like a, you know, like a slate through a microscope. You're looking at cells or something. It's a very flat image because it's being compressed by those two, you know, plastic things. Yeah, exactly. But imagine that, you know, that's imagine if you were inside of that and you could see the 3D ness of it in your in there. That's what he does in this. So we're seeing cells if you are sandwiched in there. Yeah. If you're like in there and you can actually look up like at the cells, that's what he's doing. Or if you're just like floating through the cells, the cells are not flat. They're flat because they're in, you know, under this microscope. So that's what they were doing. And I'm like, oh my God. So they wanted like 3D depth to cells as opposed to just seeing them, you know, like squiggle around. Yeah. So that's oh my god, that's awesome. And there's the natural which is on the planet all the dinosaurs. Yeah they for I oh my god that that scene where the we're basically seeing like mercy for the first time. He lets the dinosaur up. It's so moving. It's so fucking moving. It's so oddly moving. And Oh my God, I just I love that and they made the dinosaurs relatively ordinary on purpose. They didn't want, like, t-rexes running around. And I love that. And then finally it was the contemporary stuff where they sent out a crew to these vast locations with an Imax camera, wide lenses, a lot of depth of field. So you can see the scale. And that's when they're out there, you know, on the rocks in the desert and all that stuff. So it's all this stuff is being all the stuff being worked on simultaneously by different groups. Yeah. And then you bring it all together in editing and that's how we get those are the effects for the whole movie. But that is how the creation sequence came to be, and it is something to behold. I love that sequence. Oh, it's just it's just you've never really seen anything like it, even though you're talking about things where we have like 2001 and, you know, there's things like this have been tried. But I think the point of, of especially if we're just kind of going to pair 2001 is different than this, like Terrence Malick is trying to say something more connected to us as humans. Yeah. Oh yeah. Whereas 2001, it's a little bit more existential in terms of like, why are we here type of thing, or what are we doing? and it just plays so well, it's, it's a beautiful idea to like it starts with, you know, the idea of man, Sean Penn, you know, he is the subject matter for this idea, but then if you want to break him down, you have to tell his story from where he starts. And you break that idea down into where do we all start? Yeah. At the end of all of that, it's all about how we connect to ourselves and each other. Yeah, yeah. And that's what Malik is able to do through this whole entire movie, which is just a crazy, ambitious idea. Yeah. It's so ambitious in the fact that it plays and you're taking the the creation of the world like the dawn of the world and putting that on this family. It just all works so well. And you, you know, I didn't necessarily like it. Everything that was going on the first time. But I've become so involved with this movie and have seen it so many times. You start to bring your own understanding to it. The first time I saw it, I had seen the thin Red line already in the new world and the new world, so I caught this on TV. Oh, so this has been after 2011. Must have been like 12 or 13 because it was on Netflix or something. Yeah, I didn't see it in theaters. I did it again. I didn't know it was Terrence Malick. I don't know why. 2011. I should have known these things, but I was I just caught it. And as soon as it started, I was just completely, like, captivated. Yeah, because I was like, what am I watching? Why is this soap beautiful? What are all these moments? What, what? I'm just like trying to dissect this movie. And it ended and I immediately like, went through the guy to see when it was going to play again and to record it because I was like, I need to see all of this. Damn right. And what's cool is that, like wherever I picked up when I started watching it, when I watched it from the beginning, didn't matter like that. That's sort of where Malick starts to go here, too, is that there is like a thread. Yeah. Like it's moment to moment. Yes, it's it's image to image, to emotion. So you're not really missing anything. And then when you go back and watch it I'm like, okay, that's cool. I, I do see how it's connected. But it almost doesn't even matter in a way I would. It does. Yeah. Yeah. I love all that stuff too. When we finally get back to Sean Penn at the end and he's like looking around but like the toward the very, very end, we just see him, you know, he's like in Texas and he kind of looks off and just smiles and it's like, all right, things are gonna to me, I read like, all right, things are going to be okay. Like it's. But I don't know, I think it's, it's just so beautiful, like, all this realization that you've had. And now here we are, this. And it's basically like he's been thinking about this. I don't know if for like a day, essentially, like maybe at the office for like a day. And this is the day of his brother's death anniversary of it. So that's in his head. Terrence Malick's brother did die at a young age. It may have been suicide. It was suspected. So that's a thread that we see come up in his work. Yeah. You know, loss of a brother. And I love that realization that Penn lands on, you know, after he's like, been in this, you know, where he's met his young self and met his mother, which is again should work and is just so beautiful to me. I love it. Yeah. And seeing Brad Pitt and like, having an understanding like, yeah, it's good. But then also we know that Brad Pitt is still alive because we hear Sean Penn going, hey, sorry about earlier, dad. Like it's just a hard day for me. I'm like, damn, you still have a relationship with this guy. That must be a tough relationship. It's also an interesting idea to think about, like the age that like that we would be at right now in our 30s. Yeah. Some later. Oh, but thinking about if we were to meet our parents at the age we're at now. Yes. Like, that's, that's such a, like a wild like to me, my 37 year old dad right now. And like, what would we like? How would we what would we say exactly? What would you say? How would you interact? I think yeah, I think about that stuff and it's all that's communicated in this movie without words. Without words. Yeah. And we just have to, you know, watch and again let it wash over you. It really is like water if you just take his editing like water. And you're right, like, yeah, start a movie from the beginning. Sure. But this is something like if you catch one and it's just you can kind of fall into it, like you're you're probably not going to get lost. You'd be like, Who's that? Like, he'll catch you up, you know, I'll say this for as we're going right now, maybe even starting with the New World, maybe even the thin Red line, maybe all of his movies. Post 20 year break. I think this would be a fair assessment to all the mad movie buffs that maybe have never seen Terrence Malick movie. If you watch any one of these movies and you spent 20 minutes with it, if you don't like it, it's safe to turn it off. ish, because I think what I want people at least give it a shot. Oh, no. No, of course, I mean, you got to give, like, a malick movie a shot, but yeah, I mean, that could be true for. But if you're really rejecting the style and you're like, I honestly think this is true of the ones we're about to talk about. Yeah, yeah. If you start these and you go, I can't put up with this for the whole movie, then yeah, you can turn it off because the entire movie is going to be cut like this. It's going to. Yeah, that's how it's going to be. So I, I hear what you're saying. Yeah. But definitely maybe they are. Yeah. The movies they were about to get into. Not necessarily the these ones. You gotta watch the classics. Got to do it. Yeah. You do. Yeah. Especially The thin Red Line and Tree of Life. I think those would be the two that, are essential. and then those kids. It's funny how the one that the movie spends the least amount of time on, Tye Sheridan is the one who grew up to be in movies, so I love that. I don't think the other two have been in anything, and they're all great. Like, the older boy is great. He really puts I just, I feel that mischievousness. I just feel that all within him. He plays it really well. So now we are making a big change. We got two movies in the 70s, Badlands, 73 days of Heaven, 78 zero movies in the 80s, one movie in the 90s, 1998. One movie in the arts, if that's what we call that decade 2005. What are we calling it? I think the first I think it's called the aughts. Like the first decade of the 2000 aughts, I that's what I've always heard you, I think a or maybe. Oh, why would never heard that, I don't know, it's what do we call it? Because this is we're in the 2020s right now. And then it's the 20 tens called the 2000 I that's what I would call okay. The 2000 will he makes one in the 2006 gets it back and then and then in the 20 tens. Listen to this output. We get Tree of Life 2011 to the wonder 2012 Knight of cups 2015. Voyage of time 2016. Song to song 2017 A Hidden Life 2019. What happened? Where did this output come from? What's going on? All I can tell you is I was like, it was. It was one of my favorite movie, just narratives of that decade, because I would always be telling people, you have no idea how great this is. Like, he didn't make a movie for 20 years, and then he made this great war movie and then takes eight years off, which is like, you know, or seven and you're like, okay. And then he takes another big break off to the tree of life, and you're like, okay. And we just got used to these, like, I thought every Terrence Malick movie be like a 6 or 7 year gap. And then, unlike what we're getting and we're getting back to back Malick movies, Tree of Life and then this to the wonder. And then, you know, I think a lot of people may suggest that with this, the faster output maybe that has harmed the movies in some way and harm the structure of them. This isn't something I agree with. I have just as much love for the latter part of his career as I do too, beginning. That's one of the reasons why we're doing this podcast. So all by way of saying, let's break up into the wonder, which I did reference much, you know, a while ago now that this is very autobiographical, that when he was done with days of Heaven, he moved to Paris. He was teaching, he met someone and moved. They moved back to Oklahoma, just wasn't working out. So that's where it's all born from. So yeah, as your first viewing, I really want to hear what you think about this because I will say sorry. One final thing. This is the one I've had the most challenges with in all of his filmography. It's my second the the one that I've had the most challenges. Yeah, I know what your first one is, and it's. Yeah, yeah, and we'll get there. But yeah, I mean it is it it to the wonder is a challenging film. This is not very long. It's under two hours under two. And yeah, I, I do think that this makes the biggest leaps in editing where it can lose us. And you're like, wait a minute, what just happened? And I'll explain that later, but I just want to hear, like, your first reactions. I mean, I liked it, to be honest. Like, I mean, that because, I, I had seen Knight of Cups and song to song before this. Right. So helped. Yes. So I knew what I was getting myself into, because I liked the Knight of Cups and song to song. so when this all started, it almost felt a bit like home in a way, because I've really found with these movies I don't know what it is about, and I can explain why, I love them. I yeah, I do too. I can sit inside these movies all day and just have just, like, a feast. Yeah, of a time. So this really was no different. I loved Olga. Oh, she was great. She's the best part of the movie. I honestly like she really was. And, you know, you talk about, like, those actors that can really go to where you need to go with these movies. Chastain. Bale I put her right. Oh, yeah. There she was a delight. I did not like Ben Affleck. So before we started, before we started recording, recording, you hinted to me that there's one lead performance that you didn't like. I was putting all my money on Richard gear. That's what I thought you were going to say. No, I did so. So when? Yeah, when you didn't say anything, I was like, it's got to be Affleck of I. I can't say I dislike it, but I think it's the weakest lead that he's had and I don't. Yeah, it's I yeah, I think just about anyone we can think of who's been in his work like Bale would have been much better in this. You know, it just seemed a little unnatural. He's a little wooden. Yeah, a little flat, which I guess if I'm being charitable, does service him a little bit because he. Yes, it's true, out of touch with things. So maybe that was deliberate. But with him he feels. Yeah. When I watch it I feel a little bit like Ben Affleck is lost. He doesn't really know how to be playing this. Whereas August just like fucking I'm in. I'm just saying. Yeah, the girl is in. The girl is great though. The girl's on. Yeah, yeah. So I hear you I hear that. But that being said, I think the reason why this might be the challenging is where is in all of the other ones, Knight of cups song, the song we are given a very loose thread of like what these characters are and who they are to each other and what's going on. Very little happens there, almost just like chunks of time go by. Yeah, where these characters are living in a certain emotional place and then a life event changes it. And now we're a little bit fat. So especially again in song and song, it's usually like a breakup and then things like that. But for this one, these chunks of, of time and then these life events do happen. But they happen with the, the connections we have to make are pretty big. You do you have to do a lot of work for this. You have to make them. They're not spelling out anything for you. And that can be a little frustrating. There were a few times where I was like, so if this is happening, then that just must mean that this didn't go well. So that's why she's leaving. That's why he's staying. Who's Rachel McAdams? Yeah. So like so yeah. So we're I'm not going to spoil the whole thing the whole movie. But there is like this is making big leaps in time. But at some, you know, she's come to Oklahoma and somewhere along the way, it's just it's not like working out. The daughter's bored to tears. Yeah, she's bored to tears. Like it's not working out. Ben Affleck, it's not like this charming suitor. Like you met him when he was, like, on vacation or something. Yeah, and it's not. It's like. Yeah, yeah, it's not this charming suitor now plucked you out of, you know, thriving, full of activity. Paris. And you in the middle of fucking nowhere. Oklahoma. Which Malick and Chivo still make look absolutely gorgeous, like. Yeah, those sonics are like a gas station. At some point, I was like, no gas station has ever looked at fucking beautiful. Ever. So ever. I just want to say that this is a blanket statement for all three of these movies. I don't I wonder if there was a conversation that they had where it's like, I don't care what we're shooting, where we're shooting, why we're shooting it, it's going to look as beautiful as it can possibly. Yeah, I think they that's one of the things of why you just keep shooting because. So then you get it in editing, pick it and editing. Yeah. Because I mean how many times do we see movies where we use a location because we want to, use whatever that location may look like as, like an emotional component. So, like, you know, you could like, everyone knows what a sonic looks like. Yeah. You know, Sonic, you know, if this was Badlands, he would have filmed Sonic to look like. Exactly what it was like a fast food place in the middle of nowhere. But here we get the most gorgeous looking Sonic. It should be like a commercial. Like like a commercial for them, but it serves no point to furthering where we need to be in an emotional place. It's just literally just there to esthetically look amazing. Amazing, I love that, yeah, I love that I all the clothes everyone fucking wears. Yeah, it's so real. It's so everything the people, the people were real beautiful people. The people were they just pluck them out and they were real. Like, oh, well, there's those people. Yeah, the town, the town. That's a huge part of it. Yeah, absolutely. I was thinking of like the main cast. Yes, yes, yes. but, yeah, like all the locations, I'm sure there's probably that beach where they're doing the beginning, where I'll still I'll never forget the image of them walking on that rubbery sand when I went to Paris last in, October, that it would have been a day trip. It was like. It was like 12 hours to get there. But I if I went sorry, I forget what's called mount suit. I think it's actually the like the wonder I think is what that is called the. Well I think so. It's very famous church but I wanted to go there just for this movie and to see those that tide coming in that. But I couldn't, I couldn't go too long a trip. Yeah. I mean it's things like this. Yeah. That image I'll never forget that. I'm never going to I've never seen that before and I've never seen it before. And the smile on his face, the the whimsy of it like so these are the reasons why these movies to me really work is because, yes, sure. I can't really tell you exactly what's happening, but I can tell you that this was such a cool image in a beautiful little moment. That's in my mind. Well, because I was, I was setting stuff up a little because, like, they, they're together and then she we don't see, like, what leads to her leaving, but you know, she she's going to leave. She's going back and then yeah, he falls in with his former flame Rachel McAdams in the biggest jump in the movie. I did two. But the biggest jump in the movie is that. And you know, Rachel McAdams wants more like a family and all this stuff. And he's it's kind of that. And then they break up and at some point Olga has just come back. Yeah, she's come back to Oklahoma and they're like in the courthouse about to get married. And I go, wait a minute here. Yeah. To me it looks like no time has passed, but like and that's a huge jump. You don't even really, like, see her face. You're just like, walking down the aisle and and I'm like, when the hell did she get back into the picture? And now the kid's not there. So it's stuff like so and stuff like that. But I think I was able to put together that, like when she left Oklahoma and went back, she was not happy. Like there were scenes that they're they're showing of her and she's in like a real depression. Yeah. Like real like bad mental state. And then. Yes, then she just comes back. So the jump that you have to make is that she couldn't take it anymore. And she needed to come back to this. Yeah. So yeah. Okay. That's fine. It logically does make sense. Oh logically makes sense. Yeah. It's just a jump. It's just a huge jump. Yes. I'd have a bigger issue with it if it didn't logically make sense. Like if she was having a good time in Paris, let's say. And then she comes back and I'd be like, why the hell are you doing that? You were doing great. there is one other issue that I have with this movie, which I'm sure you probably can already guess what it is. Yeah, yeah. it's the, third character. This is the main question that I always have for people. Do you think Javier Bardem as the priest, does he work? Does he fit? Is he necessary? Yeah, I don't think so. the first time I saw this, I wrote a review of it, and I. I didn't say I didn't think you worked. I said, I don't understand why he's here. Yes, I'm having a hard time connecting. And I get that they can, you know, he confides in, like Ben Affleck confides in him and Olga does. And you're not allowed to necessarily, like, share that stuff. I get that we're seeing that. He's like, I guess I it is. It's hard for me to even like contextualize why that is in there and why it it is a big part of the movie. It is. Yeah. Loosely connected. It's not like he's coming over and like having dinner parties with him. But yeah, he gets some good scenes, like that woman who's like, oh, it's House and leave. And he's like scared. I love that. Yeah. And he was trying to help her. So I think you're seeing like a guy who's having a crisis of faith and, he's being, you know, Olga and Ben Affleck's, like, kind of like counselor. Not really, but he's he's heard them on their things, and, you know, they're putting their faith in a guy who doesn't, who's losing faith. But it doesn't I can't really say it adds anything for me. I don't think it does. Yeah. It yeah, I don't, those moments that are there that I like, the one you just brought up, like him hiding in the house, like, I think that's just a great moment. And he's got a few of those throughout the movie, but ultimately, like, if I like to ask the question, like, what purpose does this ultimately serve? And do I need it for what we're getting? I think I actually probably say for my personal opinion, we could probably just take it out. Yeah. And and I don't think we'd be missing anything, but, maybe we would. I think if I could, if I could Frankenstein everything, I think I would rather, spend time with Rachel McAdams a little more. Yeah, and see what her life was like. Did I ever tell you this? I this is. And we're going to be talking about this. I, I had an idea for there I go. If I made it into a feature and it would have been, we wouldn't have spent time with just RJ. We would have spent time with every single one of those people. Right. And I can sort of see something like that. Yeah. With like this. So I'd say maybe a little bit less of that and we'll be more of Rachel and then see where she comes from or her. And then you kind of mirror these. Yeah. These two lives. I don't know. Well, obviously religion, faith, these are things that are hugely important to Terrence Malick. Why? We have no idea, because he's never spoken on it. So we just it just is. And yeah, I think that was, maybe the hardest selling point for the movie, that everyone agrees that Javier Bardem is an amazing actor. But was this role, like, necessary? And again, he does interact with the main characters, but I yeah, you know, even watching it this time, I was like, okay, I get it. I get why he's here, but it doesn't. I guess those are the parts that are the least interesting to me in the movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is fine. But we still like it. Still. Oh yeah. I'm a I'm a fan. I mean, we can put it on right now and I'd be happy. Same here because that's. Yes, that's how these movies are like. Yeah I think they're actually probably because we've talked about well, this might be a nice segue. Are we done with the two? We're done. We can go. We have the since for a very long time. Always toyed with the idea of doing a deep dive on Knight of Cups. Yes. To the point where even we even reached out one time on Twitter and posed for movies to look up. Fans choose Knight of Cups, get the least amount, which was zero. You didn't get your books zero. It was also early in our podcast, so maybe, I don't know, maybe be different now. I don't know, I, I think that watching any one of these two, the one or Knight of Cups song, the song would be a perfect way for like you and I to watch a movie and talk about whatever, like side quests that we go on. Yeah, but it's in the background. We just keep going back to it. Yeah. And you're like, you know, I love about this moment, it's like a half commentary. It's like a half commentary, because what we'd end up talking about is like the personal stuff that we took away from it. And that's why I think these movies are special, because I can't really think of any other movies that really let us in quite like this. Yes. And this, this triple feature here, which I had never done this. And I watched them all in one day. I did to the Wonder and then I did Knight of Cuts and Song. Song. What a dance. Great. Oh, I love it, I loved it, it was like a it was a Sunday. It's by myself was great. And then I went back and took my time with them. If I wanted to. the most profound rewatch I had for this episode was rewatching Knight of Cups, a movie that I saw in the theater when I lived in Los Angeles in 2015 that I really, really enjoyed. I loved its sparseness. I loved being in the headspace of Christian Bale's character, Rick. And his name is Rick. Yes, Rick. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. Rick. That was I almost called to that to be getting heavy by Dave for letting him know. I know, I know. So I was like, I don't think that's going to play very well in the movie. That meant the most to me. There's only a rewatch. His name's Rick. Yeah, exactly. So. And I had seen it, I think one of their time. And when I watched it for this part, the Blu ray and watched it and I don't know, this is a tricky one to talk about because I didn't have this experience the first time I saw it. But now that I don't live in L.A. anymore, I'm, you know, out of there. yeah. Moved. Moved out. Removed from it? Yeah, removed from it. I was watching this and going, am I Rick, like that circa 2015? Not the success. Not like. No. The worst. Yeah. Like eating car and being all, you know, I want you bad. Not the screenwriting, not that, but, the. Yeah. I'm not going to get like too much into it, but it was he's lost in this and I was lost when that was a tough year for me. And a lot in a lot of different ways. I've talked about it on this podcast before and yeah, it's I mean, I had some days in the standard like he does, like, you know, being all crazy and it's like, what the hell are we doing here? Like, I'd been to a lot of the locations that that are in the movie. A lot of it is filmed in like Los Feliz, East Hollywood. So I was rewatching it like, yeah, it was, it was a little disturbing, but then also kind of profound because I went, wow, I did not expect to have this personal of a connection to it this time. I just didn't, because when I first saw it, I was living it and I had no perspective. Now I have nine years of perspective and well, like, you know, it's crazy. What? I don't mean this to sound is probably as dramatic as it's going to sound. I feel like this right now. I felt like when I was watching this, this time around, I like when you shoot for like am I Rick circa 2015, I was like, am I doing this right right now. Yeah. yeah. Okay. And it's, it's a, it was a, it was actually kind of a very cool, experience to have with this movie, man. Movie. But I'm in a good spot. Everything's all right. Right. Let's clarify. Yeah, but in life, it does feel like right now, like I'm a little lost about where I want my next move to go. And, like, professionally, artistically. So it does feel like I am wandering through this city that I love. And because I was as I was watching, I wrote this down. This might be, I've always said, Under the Silver Lake was always like my closest, like connection to the city of LA. But upon rewatching this, I was like, I've been to every one of these spots. I wrote this down to that. I think this is like one of the most LA movies. Yes, I've ever seen it. And personally, personally, L.A. like if you lived in the city, this movie is L.A. you know how personal this is. I never even noticed it. What this one of the scenes between Christian Bale. Natalie Portman is in the W where I worked. Oh, yeah, that's one of the fucking rooms. I go, yeah. When that scene happened, because I was relating to it so much, I go, and now we're where I work. It's like this crazy. Well, like, the tarot card person that he goes to see is pretty. It's like walking distance. The desert rose, where he used to go all the time. Like it's just. Yeah, it's right there. Yeah. So I was watching this movie and I actually felt comforted. Good. I was going to ask. Yeah, yeah. I didn't feel like depressed or upset about it, but it did give me a little bit of like, maybe this is a good thing to be watching right now, because I kind of feel a little represented and, and I kind of feel like, even if I am something like this, like, it's okay. Yeah, yeah. but it's good to know, so that was a wild experience watching this, and it made me love it even more. Same because there's a, like now, I know, like, even when you were out here and you would talk to me about, like, these feelings, you weren't wandering around like how Bale is. No. And neither am I. I'm more talking about like, the headspace of. It's more like being in the like. He's he's so like, am I going this way? Am I going that way? Who's this new person that I'm interacting with? Who's this new friend I'm making that may not like and good for me? Who's this person pitching me, pitching me, pitching me to have an old time when I lived out here and there. Yeah. And there's. And but the way that Bale plays this, I mean, it's almost not grounded in reality. Yeah. Because if you were actually if you were actually kind of one of these people around him and he's acting like how he's acting in every single scene, you probably wouldn't talk to this guy, right? Right. I feel like there is like this interesting, disconnect where the point of what we're seeing here with mouse doing with Bale is not to really ground these scenes in how they would actually go in reality wise, it's that every character around him is serving him in some way. Right? But this is how he's feeling all the time. So it's it's almost at least I that's my take on it. Yeah. Because I, I don't see a like if you were like at the party, the big L.A. party. I love that. You know, I love that scene to swagger shows up there. Antonio Banderas is there. you just see Bale. He's wandering around, and he's just like. Like he's, like, bewildered. He's like lost. He's laughing weirdly. To me, this is just all internal. He is a walking mask. Okay? World is seeing him as a mask. But what we're seeing him in the way that he's emoting is how he's feeling on the inside. Yeah, and maybe the rest of the world isn't seeing that. Or maybe the point is, is that LA is blind to it. I think that's a little bit. Yeah, I think every I think there's truth in everything you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. It's like there's no right or wrong here. There's this this is how abstract this movie is, is you can really take it any sort of way you want. And one thing I really love, just in general, I love that idea of a prince. Oh, yeah. Who can't be a king. Yeah, I just I'm so attracted. That story, like Hal and Prince in our King Henry in Shakespeare and all this. So like this. Literally how the movie starts, right? It's like the Prince and he's just floundering. Yeah. In, in in excess of sex and booze and and drugs and all this and that. And you know, you get that voiceover from what you imagine is the father figure, but you don't even know yet. Right? And, Danny, he's great. The prince slept on. Yep. That was it. Yes. Oh yeah. Well said. No, I agree with all of that. There actually is some auto biographical stuff to this in terms of him being successful like early on. Yeah, days of Heaven and then coming to LA and trying it and I, I think he enhanced it for Knight of Cups. But that constant like not knowing what I want to do, like what I want to go constantly being pitched like, oh, yeah, this is going to work for you. And like trying to make him a Hollywood corporate. You know, director and going to these parties where he didn't fit in. And then, yeah, he puts all this into this movie and you I mean, that isolation is just I feel it's so much about the push and pull from Bale and everyone he interacts with. Yeah, that's what the movie's about. Are these series of interactions in him like meeting usually a woman for a period of time and it not working out for whatever reason. And yeah, Freida Pinto has a cool thing where she said she was like, really excited and she's like showing up on set. And she went up to Bale and she's like, okay. So I think, like it's going to be good. Like we'll do the scene and you can, you know, you can lead it and I'll just go off your lead. And he's like, oh, you don't know how this works yet. She's like, what do you mean? He goes, I don't talk. And she's like, what do you mean? And he goes, my character, like, I'm not, I don't talk, I'm just going to react off to like what you say. She goes, I thought it was going to be the opposite like you were. I was going to be reacting off you. And he's like, nope, this is the way Terry wants it. So here we go. And that's what you get. That's what you get. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's all voiceover right. He's all voiceover. Very rarely does he actually speak in the scene. Yeah. And he does a few times. And it's usually in the most intimate of moments when he's with the it's usually the girl. And it's like you really kind of do notice when that does happen. Yeah. but his voiceover is so good throughout it that you're painting on your own personal take on it based off of what he's doing non-verbally. And then with the dialog, they're operating in sync, but completely separate the Cate Blanchett stuff. I loved it, I love it, yeah. She's like to secure in her career. You know she like has the career. Yeah, I love it. I love all interactions. But why this one in particular? I don't know why I like that the first time I saw it, but I just connected a lot more to it. I think maybe I didn't actually pick up the first time I saw it that this was actually an old flame. Yes, like this was a marriage. They were married? Yep. And the marriage didn't work. I don't think I really kind of got I didn't the first time, the first time I was like oh now he's just involved now with this because I think I was picking up a little bit more in what was the flashback idea of this or what was the past, a flashback with the past and what, what the present was. How old was Terrence Malick during this, these, that this decade? Like? Yeah, like he's late 60s veering into 70s because he's 71 in 2014. So yeah. And that's probably comes out much older than I thought. Right, right. So what I'm note what I love about this is like these are younger movies. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's an energy in like a youth to them. Absolutely. Especially in song to song. Yeah. Yeah. But even in Knight of Cups like I, I it felt so modern and current when it happened. If that was LA in 2015, right. Like that was everything about it. And he's, he's making a story about a guy who's basically 32, almost 40 years younger. Yeah. Than he is now in a world that I'm sure he partook in. But back in the 70s and 80s. Sure. And but that's a different time period like that. Like what the clubs looked like. Oh, yeah. The parties are like, who were the celebrities at the time? He makes this all so currently relevant. I that's mind blowing to me. It's one of the things I love most about the movie that it's another period piece doesn't set in the 70s. It's just here and now, here and now. And it's so it resonates so much. But, so going back to this Cate Blanchett thing, the there's a couple lines that she had that makes me think about that autobiographical part of things where she says, you were sincere when you married me, but still dot, dot dot, and I'm like, God damn it. And and I love this one. This one fucking crux kills me to the bone. You're still the love of my life. Should I tell you that? Oh, and this is in voiceover as well, Cate Blanchett. Yeah, exactly. So that's what I mean. Like, it's she isn't. She's telling us something that he doesn't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cluing us in. Yeah. Yep. And and a few of these girls have this, they're they're, they take over a little bit and give their piece of their experience of him. If you are using that is not a biographical thing like you turning it on yourself, and kind of being like, what would they think about me or what have they said about me? Right. And how can I be honest about that? These are the things that I, you can do with this type of movie that I just think is breathtaking and it's so personal, real. But again, you know, I mean, you're also watching the movie. There's nothing going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but, yeah, still, if it is the personal connection and then I don't want to say what it is, but even the last line of voiceover, an implication of that I oh love we both I yeah. Oh my. And I did like in the theater. I was like, oh my God. Perfect. How about Michael Wynn showing up in the great he's great there. So this this cast is so stacked of people who maybe don't even have a line. But yeah, I love him in it. I love him. West Bentley is the brother. Dennehy is the dad. Oh it's great. Yeah. When cut's great. Yeah it's it. And all the little other actors that show up. Yeah. My Natalie, she's great. My Natalie. They film this back to back with song song. They're filming them like at the same time and I was, I didn't remember, but I was very happy to see that there are two completely different characters that she's doing of cups and songs. Yeah, I love that. There is something I picked up on this and this is completely my interpretation. Natalie's character in this to me seems when she meets him and everything going on with her while she's with him, she seems so upset. Yeah, like there's something going on in her that he can't fix, right? And I don't even think she's upset about that. it seems like each moment that that, like, he's what is available right now for her. Even if he could make it better, she's got something going on that would make that impossible. Right? I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that was because this never expresses her character isn't really given to us in that way, but just watching her behavior with him, I'm like, man, she is closed off of something and it's so captivating to watch that all I could think about is like, what is it? What's going on? What's going. That's what I love about it. Yeah. Oh, I love it so much. It really hit me this time. It did. It really affected me. I'm excited to watch it again. Oh, I I'm very proud fucking right now. Screw the thin red line commentary. Let's do what we said we were going to do since day one. Ever said we could do it. Commentary for 90 cuts 75. Commentary five. Listened, five downloads. Let's, I'll get to the documentary that he made that was released in between these, but let's just move the song to song, okay? Okay. Because I was gonna say, I haven't seen this, but I want to know all about. Yeah, yeah, it's very easy to explain, but we should just keep in this, you know, this trilogy here. So. Song. I don't say this too many times. Okay? You're right. Thank you. Thank you. Fucking right. I'll keep that one for the rest of my life. For the song to song is the movie of his in the theater, like in real time that I had the most trouble with. And I, it really did lose me. I don't, you know, maybe. Who knows? I don't even remember the circumstances. I do remember that guy walking out. It was hilarious and just calling it out, and this was the one that I was a little nervous to rewatch for this episode. I only see it once, so I was nervous to rewatch it to go, I don't know, like I don't it just, it kind of like lost me. And then I bought about 4K. Oh, listen, for Californians, yeah, so bad in 4K put it on and I don't know. But the second time watching it I'm at home. It it moves around. But it just made sense to me. It everything just clicked. I was like, yeah, oh, this is one love story with long tangents, long daydreams, but it it lands, it ends back where we began, essentially. And I totally get it. I just got it. Everything clicked. I think this was a I think I you can compare to the wonder and song, the song a little bit closer together because of like a love triangle rectangle situation. I think song, the song is much more clearer in its threads. Yeah, and because there are quite a few and they do depart and you do have to kind of just be like, oh, okay. Like when, Fassbender meets Natalie Portman. Yeah, that's the whole thing. Oh, okay. So now you're just doing this now. Yeah. But it's it's not a it's not a huge leap, right? He's giving us again Malick. He's giving us what we need to know. What he needs to know it without without having it be confusing. But again, yeah, this is one of those things where, we're dropped in, into these people and these relationships. And let me just say the thing that I love about this movie the most, this is my favorite looking Terrence Malick. Oh, wow. For so many reasons. Wow. Is that one. I believe this has the most beautiful cast of white people I've ever seen. Like, like, lot of them, they're. They're everywhere. Like, Rooney Mara, I think is beautiful. Oh, yeah. Natalie. She's my Natalie. The goose, the goose, the charming face. She's just great in it and fast. But this, this, this my. You know what I thought of this is going to be huge compliment. He looks like you in this movie. Really? Yeah. And it hit me at a certain point, I she. I wonder if this is why you like him so much. Maybe subconsciously. No, I've liked him since hunger. No, I know I think you look like him a little bit. No one's ever told me that. I don't know no. There's something in the smile. There's something there. Like there's there's a there's a, There's something. What? It doesn't come off right away. Yeah. What a what? I get a lot in how I, look is that I'm. I just I said, I've been told I can be very difficult to read when you're just, like, looking at me and you don't know, like, what is going to do, and I don't know, maybe that plays with him. Oh, that is a compliment, I love it. I wish I could get some of those jackets. Yes, they're I love it. He's like, you like this jacket. I'll get you. Get one of those jacket is his character I love him well. Thank you. Yeah. There was a part where he was on the beach with with, with Rooney and Ryan Gosling, and he was dancing and being goofy and smiling, but there was a smile and like, oh, my God, it was just like fucking Alex right there. That's crazy. yeah, I wrote right here. These the relationships are actually quite defined. where we, we absolutely get that there's a conflict in Rooney. bless that character's soul right there, man. What a what a tough one she is. She she she was like, I, I, I was getting angry with her. And because I was just sort of like girl you're being pretty evil right now. Like you're balancing these two. I know I'm jumping. We're not really talking about like the the structure. It's fine. But like you're balancing these two dudes while they're together. Well yeah. Exactly. And and the goose isn't aware and he doesn't? Yeah. He doesn't know about the former relationship that she had with Fassbender. Yeah. And she's, could still still be going on because there's, like, little looks that they're given to me, yet she's grabbing on her shit. Yeah. Oh, God. I was just sort of. Oh, I was cringing in, like, the best way possible and, and and like. And Gosling is such a nice guy and, like, he's just such that, like, unassuming, you know, I'm just this artist I'm just trying to make in the music industry. We should probably say what this movie's about a little bit more. I got carried away. Yeah. That's it's people trying to. It's set around like the Austin music scene. The movie to me is really about Ryan Gosling and Rooney Mara, who meet Fall in Love. And then, yeah, there are these big tangents that we're talking about. And you may think that when you're in the midst and movie like, this is never going to land the plane. Yeah. Where the hell are Rooney Mara and Ryan Gosling? Is that even about this? This time? But it does land the plane. Yeah. Get somewhere that makes sense. Yeah. That matters. It feels very Malick. Feels like we're going back to, like, days of Heaven, when the guy is just, like, going to work in the mines or something. And that's what he's like, getting out of life. Yes. And yeah. So it it definitely lands a plane. But yeah, this is all set against the Austin music scene. Michael Fassbender's like a rich, I don't know, producer of sorts who comes in. He has a former relationship with Rooney Mara, but then he's trying to sign on Gosling. Yeah. So there's all this Natalie Portman comes in, but like Portman and Rooney Mara never meet. Nope. They never. Yeah. So it's not it's not like a really strict love square, but that's essentially what it's about. Yeah, yeah. Everyone looks perfect. They do all the costumes in this movie costume. Perfect. Yes, yes. Very good costume design and and just the colors. This is the most colorful of all of them. you mean we're going into different locations? I don't know where he's finding these places. I have no idea. Like this location scout for these movies is is just. They should win an Academy Awards. Jack Fisk helps a lot with. I mean, production as a production designer. Yeah, like, we get so many backgrounds of walls, particularly with Rooney. There's a lot of, like, oranges and yellows and Gosling's always around blues, but these are vibrant colors that very this is a very vibrant looking movie. Everything is is as bright as it can be. Even in the sad moments. The natural lighting that's coming all the time. So. And against like the sonic thing, it's like every shot, every costume is just as perfect looking as it can get. It's it's so good. I was just so I agree, and I was just so happy to have a better relationship with it, watching it this time, because I'm like, oh my God, thank God. I'm so glad I came out on the other side of this. And it is it. I get that it can be a little isolating, the structure of it. It's really it's edited like you're listening to, a playlist that you and your former lover made together. Oh, yeah. And as you switch to a different song and you go song to song, that takes you back to a different point in time, and then, yeah, track three takes to a different point in time, and it just feels like that without being like episodic. Instead of it being episodic, you're just flowing like water. The whole time there was this one sequence that it really floored me. I and this again, just completely interpretation. It's, Rooney Mara's character no longer can kind of contain that. She's been carrying on with Fassbender. Yeah. While being with Gosling. So she tells him, yeah, it at the time I was watching it, they're going through all of these different moments where it's like a fight. Yeah, but they're. But Gosling's like, how long's it been going on? She's lying there. They they're they're in there now. They're in a different house. continuing, different closing. Like it's a different day. Like you don't really know where or what's happening, but we're feeling as if we're spending a lot of time in this muck. and at the time I was watching it, I was like, I think we might be here for a little bit too much. Interesting. I'm getting this, like. Or I'm like, I don't like what I'm feeling. Yeah. I'm just like, this is like, so gross and ugly and and like, because I know what she's done and, like. And I'm feeling for him. And I'm also feeling for her. And then it cuts and you hear Gaussians. VoiceOver we broke up. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that when. Yeah. What I realized was that that it wasn't until we get that line that it made how long that that that those monkey scenes were matter. I love this because as soon as we hear we broke up, then I was me like, oh, well now that's like it. It was all earned. And that's like, how it is. Like you, you like sometimes like breakups are long and they don't happen exactly when they should. And like, they go on for like in you're stuck in life and just this muck. And that's what was being reflected in how long these scenes were going on. So. But what you don't get that payoff until it all clicks in. Yeah. With we broke up. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I can Malik does it again. Malik I'm so glad for this song to song passion. I see this kid. you know, if you look up like Malik movies ranked, you just typed it into Google often what is last is song. So Knight of Cups almost always. That's last. And that's not how we feel. So yeah, I love this. The last thing I want to shout out to this one is, really like the scene with Cate Blanchett again showing up in here where she. This is Gosling's kind of like rebound. Yes. Dates this older woman, and they have a, like a lunch with his mom. Oh, wow. And, yeah, it's so like a one shot. It's all, like, kind of over Gosling. Not even over his shoulder. It's like, right next to him. Really cool set up and it's awkward. It's just like. Like, no one really knows what to say. and, and and Gosling goes to, like, go to the bathroom. Yeah. The camera stays on the two women and Gosling's mother and the character, she goes, Cate Blanchett, you're not happy in this, like and and then and then, like, she leaves. Yeah. And Gosling is sort of like, you're not right for each other. I don't know, there was like, there was like a real honest to that that I really enjoyed. Like, I love he goes back to the table and he's like, what'd you do? Yeah. What you did. It's like, what'd you say to his mom? I love you so good. But you do. it's such like a goose delivery. It is, it is. I thought he did actually. Quite well, I did too. Yeah, I did too. Yeah, I thought he and and Fassbinder to to like. Yeah. Like he just falls, right. Like he, he's the one like his character is so ballsy. So I think like that just kind of like he was the one doing the most crazy shit. Yeah. He's like dancing. He's very big and can be very big. Like that fight scene where he's pulling them out of, like, Gosling, like. Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, this guy must've been such a trip to fucking work with on this because he's just like, I'm just going to go wild. Yeah, yeah, definitely tapped into that. And I love that mode that he stays in. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, I'm such a huge fan of these movies, I love them. Oh, that's I'm so glad we got we gave a lot of love to this trilogy of sorts. You know, I oh, God. So good. And I was never mad about him exploring new styles and like, you know, and especially again, this is another one of those youthful movies like, like everything that was contemporary about the music at this time. Yeah. You know, so I'm like, who was the seven year old dude just telling these very, very real, honest young people love stories, right? so what a cool thing to do. I hope that that happens to me. I hope I hope I can be 70 and be telling like, young people's stories with raw honesty and relevancy as he is. Yeah, yeah. Well said, well said. love those love them all. I will, I'll be quick. On Voyage of Time, it was officially released in 2016. This is basically a he released two versions of it. One was like a 40 minute version narrated by Brad Pitt and the other a feature length version narrated by Cate Blanchett. It is. It's basically like a feature length version of the creation seen from the Tree of Life. Okay, it does not reuse any of the shots. This is extremely hard to find. I do buy a Japanese Blu ray from Japan. They sent it to me. I was able to play it on my recent free Blu ray player, and I was actually nervous because everything's in Japanese, like the menu, like everything on the disc. Like it doesn't say Voyage of Time. It's like in Japanese. So I was I was nervous, like, it is. Cate Blanchett video going to be in Japanese and it wasn't. It's in English. So that's how I watched it. But that was the second time I saw the movie. First time I saw this movie. This is just nuts. This is absolutely fucking nuts. This is early 2017. I know this story, and for some reason I sometimes I'll just get on and be like, oh, I wonder what movies are going to be out, and I'll check, like all the local theaters, I'm back in the DC area and the Air and Space Museum. There's two. There's one in the city, and then there's the much bigger one outside of the city, which is where I saw Oppenheimer. That's where the Enola Gay is. But I see that at the one in the city, they're going to be showing Voyage of Time. And I went, oh my God, I didn't I didn't even know this is going to be a thing that they're going to be screening this. So I get and I'm ready to buy a ticket and it I read closer, it says Voyage of Time introduced by Terrence Malick. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, he whoa. He like, recorded something that's going to be introduced before it. I've never heard him, like, speak about a movie. This is crazy. I do more digging. He's going to be in person, Like, I I'm there's no director living director who's more like, obscure than this in terms of press and stuff. So the whole time I'm thinking this just can't be real, that something's going to happen to where this isn't going to be real. Ali and I, we're pretty new into our into our relationship. And this is when I invited her to, like, every movie thing I did. I certainly don't do that anymore because, like, she's allowed to live her own life. But I said I you know what? I was trying to contextualize it for it. Never heard of Terrence Malick. So we still talk about this it like it. You have no idea how big of a deal this is. So I met we got there very early. We were like the third people in line and we're waiting. And another guy, like, comes up next to me line, and he's like, are you like, a fan of Malick's movies? I, I go, I'm obsessed. And he's like, is he really going to be here? I'm like, yeah, what is going on? I was asking the staff. I'm like, the director of this movie's actually coming, and they're like, yeah, so what? The movie just start like seven or something, I don't know. And I look over and there's Terrence Malick just walking into you talk about this life. I have videos of it. Yeah, you have a video. I still have it on my phone right now. A video of him walking by looking very nice and I'm just dumbfounded. We locked eyes and my jaw was like, dropped. I was like, And, you know, and he just walks in and he watches the movie with us. We all watch the movie and he does a Q&A after, and it was very, very clear. The moderator said, we are not accepting questions about his other films. Not at all. We can talk about this. And it wasn't a big Q&A. It was more like him just talking about it. But I got out my phone and I recorded it because I'm like, I can't believe you got to have some known footage. Yeah. And I so I still have it. And I still have that recording. I wrote about it on my blog and just and because in that the one thing he did that wasn't related to Voyage of Time is he hinted at the structure of his next movie, A Hidden Life, is going to go back to something more, more conventional, and it's not going to be flowing like water, like his last three movies. And he said that. So I put that in my article, and this got picked up and this blog went fucking wild. It was like the only time I've gone like viral, basically. And it just went crazy. And I had some people being like, can we have the recordings? Can we have that? And I went, yeah, no, no. Like I got some pretty good offers. And it was, it was just it was wild. And it's to the, it's actually if you go on a hidden life fucking Wikipedia page, there's a quote that he said from this air and space thing. And then if you click like the citation it'll take you to a blog, no where it credits it, where it's like, we got this from the film stage. So then it'll take you like an IndieWire blog. And then the IndieWire article says this is credited from film stage. And if you go to film stage and read that article at the bottom, it says, this is credited to Alex with throw in. And so it begins. And I really want to change that fucking Wikipedia page to be like, it's me, it's me, goddamn it. Yes. So I just I mean, I like him, it's like I met him. It's all I got a one on one conversation. But I was ten. I was three feet from him. It was not like I any to any living director. He's probably the hardest one to just see. Yeah, he doesn't do Q&A, he doesn't do interviews. And I still can't believe that. That's like a thing that happened to me. And it did. And I will never forget it. I remember getting that video and a text message, and I did not know at the time that this was an elusive a guy as he is. So you made such a huge deal in the text like you're like, there he is. I can't believe it. Like there's the man and I'm thinking, I'm like, oh, it's cool, it's just Terrence Malick. But then to kind of like realize, like why that was such a big deal because I was like, oh yeah. Because it's like this never comes out. So it's like, it doesn't do commentaries, doesn't do this, doesn't talk about his older movies. Yeah, I, I actually really respect that I do too. I think that's like a really cool thing, because that's the only way your art can truly be interpreted by the audience for exactly what it is. Yeah. Because as soon as now saying like, you know, listening to like the filmmakers and talk about it like, because that's a little bit different, getting that insight. But weirdly, when you hear like, it's like when a, when a band comes out and explains the reason for their song. Right? It's cool to kind of know. Yeah, but maybe now you had a connection to that song that was wholly yours, but now you're like, it can still be. But now that I know that this song is actually about taking a shit right? I actually have a really good example. This doesn't have to do with Malick, but I wanted to get a tattoo because I want to honor my mom, and I wanted to get one to honor my dad. In the song Here Comes the Sun by the Beatles is a very it's like our song together. It has a lot of personal significance. So I like looked up what that was for, and it was just like George Harrison, like our, our careers, like going a little better. So it just that's it. Like bring on the sun. It's not like it's like bigger, deeper meaning. So so got the tattoo but I got a huge kick out of that. It's not like some big grand thing of like self-discovery. It's like, no, it's just about like the bands getting and we're moving on. It's. Yeah, I love that. So yeah, I totally get what you mean. Like, if he over explained everything, then this what we're talking about how the we put ourselves on the movies that does go away. It goes away. Yeah. Even if we knew. I mean, like, we get a sense that things are autobiographical, and I think it's safe to assume that they are, because you can't get that personal without. I agree, like, these are things that happen, but they're so abstract and that anyone could connect to those they're universal in that way. Yeah. So we let's talk about it. Let's get to this next one. Yeah, yeah. 2019 for $9 million, we get an extremely quiet release of Terrence Malick's A Hidden Life. This is based on a true story about a man who just lived with his family, and the Nazis take over Germany, and everyone you know in Germany has to pledge their loyalty to Hitler. Whether or not you're going to serve for him and become a Nazi is one thing. It's made pretty clear to this guy, to this farmer, if you just, like, sign your loyalty over and just say that, then we'll leave you alone. But you have to do it. But because of his very deep faith, he refuses to. He refuses to pledge his loyalty to Hitler, and he is killed for it. Ultimately, that's what the movie's about. It's long. It is more conventionally told. I think it is the previous three. Yes. Oh, for sure it is. It's not like hard to follow at all. it's more like the New World. Yeah. Than more than anything else. Yeah, I think I do like this movie, but I think the simplicity of the decision for some people can make this entire movie an absolutely punishing watch. Bottom line, I think people are like, just sign the fucking paper, dude. Just sign it. But this is a true story that didn't really have a life. Clearly, that was interesting enough to Malick to be like, what the hell? Like, this guy is so deep in his faith that he refuses to give up his morals and pledge his allegiance to Hitler, which I respect, but I, I think it's, it's a tough film. It's tough in that it's long, it feels long. And yeah, it doesn't get the highest ranks of a Terrence Malick movie to me. And there are some people who disagree, and there are some people who I know just love this love. I think maybe, I don't know, maybe it's your spiritual have a really good connection with faith. Maybe that helps, as Terrence Malick does. That is not something that's a very big part of my life, so it doesn't mean I reject any religious movie. It's just, yeah, it's it's it's a tough one, a hidden life. It is. I, I for me, this was not a movie for me. You said that when you saw it. Yeah. And I, I but I mean, there were things about it that I really did enjoy. Well, beautiful looking, beautiful horses. I really loved that one monologue that she takes. It's a complete departure from anything. It very much reminded me of Bergman. Yeah. Where she just steps right out and I'm like, oh, we're really just going to strip go into a monologue that I loved it. I love some of the guys that and their behavior and and with each other. When he gets to the end, when they're all, like, lining up to get shot. Oh my God, like some of those relationships and the things that they would say to each other. But that was some real stuff right there. Yeah. Because it's these are your last moments, Alicia, that the whole like that, that end sequence it when you realize where it's going, it's really well done. It's terrifying because you're hearing these sounds. Yeah. Oh my god. But yeah, yeah, but I, I, I will speak to what I actually didn't really like. You already touched on a little bit. It was. And I get that it was a true story, so I can't really have it my way, but, yes, I didn't I could not really grasp why he wouldn't sign the papers when so many bad things were happening. Yeah, it was like one after another. It's like all this could just. So go away. And the thing was that the thing that I couldn't get over, it wasn't like you have to go and join the army. Yeah. It wasn't like. Because, like, in the beginning, he, like, might have to, but it keeps going. And then that like, Matthias shoe Nazis in, Russ and Bone, you know, like he's meeting with them. He's like, look like I kind of. I promise you, it'll be fine. Just sign this. We just have to have everyone on board. Yeah. We're not going to send. You can go back to your phone. Yeah. We just we just need to. Have you seen that? It just says like, yes, I, I, I, I pledge my loyalty to Hitler. Now, of course, no one wants to do that. Of course not. But when you start having your livelihood taken away and your and and things happening, is it worth dying for? Is it worth. Is it worth dying or is it worth putting your family also true risk? Yeah. So but I in same with you. I don't have a very big constitution in the religious faith. So you are your own God. I. Just get it. No, but yeah. Yeah, I'm just one man. Am not a god. I couldn't I got frustrated in the movie. I just got, I think at one point I just go just sign the fucking paper. I still get what the fuck are we doing here? But all that being said, it's a beautiful movie. It is beautiful. It is beautiful. Shot very well. And can I talk about your dad, please? Because you told me recently that your dad loves this. Loves it. And that actually makes me like the movie a little bit more. Yeah. And this is one of the things I love about him is we don't. We have very similar movie tastes. We do not agree on everything, but we hear each other out like a lot about, oh, it didn't connect for you did. And he loved that the man was so committed to his faith that he could not do this. He could not betray himself. And my dad, who is a spiritual person, understood this like he he just got it. Now, you know, if and my dad hasn't seen every Malick movie, I believe he's seen that The Thin Red line and there's one the Tree of Life. Yeah. So those are the ones. And yeah, he just said it really, really resonated with him and he understood it. He thought it was very sad, but he understood it. See, that makes me like it more. Me too. Because not just because of him. But I could if anyone was to tell me that The Hidden Life was their favorite and they connected to it in this way, I would be like, please tell me like and like I want to understand a little bit more. So that way I can actually, because that's just not how I felt about it. Sure. But I would love to hear the other person's side of that and like why that actually means so much. Because again, this isn't like a thing where I thought this was a stupid movie. Yeah, it's definitely not. Oh no, it's yeah, I just, I like it was just it's just like a sort of like, all right. I just did happen. But my God, it's frustrating for a lot of people. This was very evident in the reviews. You can see people being like all right. Yeah well done. But just like sign it. Yeah. I mean a lot of people are saying this or maybe because it stood up in real life is this does this warrant like a three hour movie? And it it didn't hit me in the way that the only comparison I can make to it is the Crucible, where, you know, you get like that. It's my my name. Yeah. so there's a goosebumps every time I think of Daniel Day-Lewis doing DDL, DDL but so it doesn't it doesn't hold that impact. Yes. It's still like I did not hate my time with it by any means. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Another thing that happened in this movie is that Fox was bought out by Disney right around this time on Fox had two movies and that were ready to go. And Disney clearly put all of their weight behind one of them and just completely screwed. Hidden life, very small release. It just very didn't come out. The other one that they acquired was Jojo Rabbit, and this is 2019. They put all their weight behind that. It wins an Oscar and that it just it sucks that that happened because this it was like a big release like this was in major movie theaters. And it sucks that people didn't get enough, enough chances to see it and have a conversation about it. You know, I don't really talk to many people about a hidden life. Well, not very well seen. No, it's not very well seen. And, it's it's certainly not something that comes up a lot in the film universe of Terrence Malick's work. Yeah. And it's his most recent film. But he, as I said, way in the beginning, he does have one in the can. It's done The way of the wind. It's about none other than Jesus H. Mr. Christ himself. Oh, I see what it's about. What do you mean? No, no, this is what he's going head on. He's going for it. We got Mark Rylance, we got Ben Kingsley. Matthias. Shoe nurse Joseph finds Franz Rogowski, who is, like the fellow prisoner he meets in A hidden life. He was also in passages. Great actor. So I'm looking forward to it. When will it come out? I have no idea. But it is about Jesus. You're. Nick is making a grimace face this whole time. He looks nervous. You cannot prejudge Malik though I cannot. I will not be like, here I go. I it's clearly something he's wanted to do for a long, long time. You know what would be cool? It would be cool if it covers all the years that aren't covered in the Bible. Well, we'll see. Like what? He's going to do something different with it. We know that. Like he's it's going to be something that we like haven't seen before. I have no idea where he's going to go with it. It's not like they gave him $100 million to make it. He doesn't get a lot of money. There was things that I didn't look up on purpose. I don't know exactly. I don't even know if it's one of those cast members that I read. Mark Ryan. But no, no, it's I think he's like Satan, actually. Oh. Or something, I think I think I don't know if maybe he's getting someone I'm not that familiar with to play Jesus, which would be a good move. It would probably be the best move. Yeah. You don't want to sign a name like a like a Hollywood celebrity to be like, hey, they hear Jesus now. I mean, it's not like you're the new Batman, you know, he developed, amazing relationship with old, Jim Caviezel instead of thin Red line, which brings back cross crosses over to Jesus. It's a the JQ. The Jesus. Oh my God, it's you. Sound of freedom, Jesus Christ. Oh, wow, we did it. That's Malik. Yes, we're here in our rankings. This is this is not easy for me. You can do it. I have to do my right. All right. Do real quick. It's a little behind the scenes here. Nick had not done his rankings yet, so he just just paused. He did it. I don't know what he did, but he was like your, your whole vibe that whole time was exactly what I felt like. Oh, God. This is this is so hard. I can't believe I forgot to do them, like I. I'd been thinking about them, and I just realized I never actually wrote them down, so I knew. I knew where a lot of them went. But then in kind of like that midsection. Yeah, was like, how am I ranking this right here? I always do. Before when we decide on a director, I immediately do my rankings, not rewatching anything. Oh, and then season change. Yeah. And then when I'm doing great, I had one change here, and it was a very significant one that, like, just surprised me, but. So yeah, we'll go, you know. Well, I'm not counting Voyage of Time. Yeah. Since you haven't seen it. So we're gonna do nine. We're going to do 9 to 1. So I'm gonna go first. Number nine. I always do that. It's the same. I mean, if it's not really a surprise, my number nine is a hit in life. Same. Same here, same here. And it's not a movie I dislike. Like, I love all of these movies. It's a little, you know, it gets tough in here, but. Yeah, same, same number eight for you. It feels like I'm like saying I don't like this movie, but it just it is what it is. But it's to the wonder. Same here. Holy shit. I would give it to the wonder. An A-minus if I'm grading it so I don't dislike any of these movies. I'd give a Hidden Life a B+, so I do not. I don't dislike any of these, but yeah, to the wonder. Yes. Now with this one, we won't have the same of this. We're not gonna have the same all the way. There's no. Yeah. There's this. I think this might be where we depart. Yeah, yeah. oh I don't you're not going to like this. I don't like this. What? I have days of heaven at number seven. Okay? Okay. It's all right. It's all right. I'll. I'll do whatever you want. I get it, I get it. I can't wait to see where that is for you, I get it. No, no, I get it, I get it. You may not like this. My number seven song to song. Oh. Oh, good Lord, I fucking love the movie. God. Number seven. Yes. Okay. Six from you, the new world. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah, but not me. Yeah, I okay, I know, I know, I know, I don't like that. That's surprises me. Well, you can always change. No. I'm committed. My number six Badlands. What? Yeah. That's crazy. No, my. I should say my top three have always been locked in their grandfathered in. My top three have not changed since I've loved Malick. All right. So yeah, there's a I'm or. Yeah. Badlands. Badlands number six. Okay. All right, all right, all right. Five song to song. Okay, okay. Yeah, it's in the top five. Okay. If I if I was ever to switch, it would be I'd flip flop, New World and song to song and okay on the top five. But as of right now. Yeah. And my number five, we didn't exact switch days of Heaven. Okay. So yeah, switch days of having song songs. So that's cool. All right. All right. Number four. Number four for me. Tree of life. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Number four, tree of life. My number four. This was the change. And this is a huge change because it was not this hot at all. It's Knight of Cups. Wow. I cannot believe I bumped that up. I had it lower, and I can't couldn't believe the reaction I had to it. Oh my God, love. So. So basically, because you're three top three have never change. They're locked in. So your Knight of Cups jumped up to number four. Yes. Like clawing right at that top. Yes, yes. What. Where was it before it was I'm looking at it. It was six. So that's not bad. That's it. But when we're talking about nine movies. Yeah, we all love it does get tricky. It's you know. And so that meant days of Heaven and Badlands were before. So then when I reversed, I put Knight of Cups where it is now and meant Badlands and Days of Heaven. Each went down the spot. So I was like, well, I can't believe I'm doing this to be a Knight of Cups. Number four for me, right? You're number three. All right. Number three for me is Badlands. Love it, love it, love badlands so much. I didn't know you were going to like it. That I love that. I didn't know it's going to be that. It's huge. Number three. I love you. The new world. I love this film. I will always love this film. Any version I like, I never once got bored watching just all three versions. I, I love it, I love that film. Got emotional on this podcast. That was weird. I didn't expect that at all. I it's beautiful. I think I'm going to change what? I'm going to switch my song to song in New World. Okay, so song song is number six and New World is number five. I got to have the new world in the top five that for the year alone. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. So, All right, all right, all right. So your your number three was Badlands. My, I was a new world were top two. I think one is a better movie. But I'm going with my heart. Number two. My number two is the thin red line. Holy shit. Yeah. Wow. So you had. Okay, so one is a Knight of Cups fan. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah, it meant it because it means a lot to me for like a number of reasons. It's just personal. Absolutely. So you're right. Number two for you, the thin red line. My number two, the tree of life. Yeah. Oh that's what I thought. Yep. So number ones you. Yep. Knight of cups. Knight of cups. The thin red line. Wow. That's crazy. I love it though. Man, I love it. I had no idea. I knew you liked the movie. I didn't know it was that high. Well, I mean, we're also talking about. I don't really think this is recency bias because I've already seen the movie and it's lived in me for a certain way that I love for so long, but seeing it this time, right, and identifying it in this way for me personally actually means a lot. Where is like clearly The thin Red line is a like far superior movie in terms of like, like everything really just personal. It's all personal, but it's like like there's something about like my connection to Knight of Cups that is just it means so much to me that I'm like that. It's that's my number one. I heard a really good explanation of, like, how can someone could we all ever agree on, let's say if we're rating movie 0 to 10, it's like, could we all agree? That's what like IMDb does on a ten out of ten film. Yeah, everyone agree. And you couldn't because we can. A lot of us can agree out of nine out of ten movies, a lot of us like they're right on the edge. Usually what makes a ten out of ten movie to us is personal significance. That's what we have to bring to it that we do not share with other people. So when we talk about movies like Knight of Cups or Sleepers, for me, yeah, something like that. It's that personal significance that gives it, that bumps it up to a ten out of ten. And that's that's not something that's unique to you, and that's what art is supposed to do. I love that explanation. So yeah, yeah, the thin red line is a better movie admitting that. But the one that hits you the most is Knight of Cups. So yeah, that's that's what it is. And for two why it's like it's like it's like a song. Like a song that stays with you. Like you hear it once when you're younger and it connects with you and then you sometime it gets removed. You watch it, you listen to it again and it means just as much, but in a different way. That's how I feel. Knight of cups is yeah, like, I know I'm sure in like, you know, five years I'll watch it again and relate to it differently. But it'll still his movies are like, yeah, that's why we found them. I'm so glad we did this right now. Like we found them at just the right time. I've always loved his movies, but the fact that I don't think he came up. Did he come up on our favorite directors episode? Oh, for either of us, that's howling. That's that's fucking nuts. He would definitely be a huge point. But this is what happens. This is what we do this podcast to like kind of explore directors that, you know, we we both like a lot. We have a lot of admiration for. And now it's like, no, this guy's an all timer. And, that was fun. Knight of cups is number one, I love it. I love the flex. We had a lot. You know, we had stuff in common. We just. Oh, yeah. I think our biggest actual, stretch was Badlands. Oh, actually. You're right. Yeah, because I have Badlands at six and you have it at three, so. Yeah, that. Yeah, everything else is just like two off or something like that. Yeah, yeah. It's true. What are you watching? I'll give you a little hint. I'm doubling down. I already had it here. I'm going to double down. Well, no, actually actually. Sorry, sorry. I'm not I apologize. What are you watching? All right. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome. Pay tribute. I so I was thinking a lot about the new world, and, I was thinking a lot about, Christian Bale. and I've realized that, like, as an actor, he's meant a lot to me, that I've never actually really taken up credit for him because of, like, everyone, like, listens to us, like, knows my my history with American Psycho. How I didn't like it when I first saw it then. Now it's in my top ten and but as like the years have gone on, like he is an actor that I have just loved his work and respected, I think he just means a lot more to me than I thought he did. Yeah, and the new world is what showed it to me. his the nobleness that he has. More nobility. Nobility? Yeah. Thank you. it was so genuine and so real and honest. it made me think about one of my all time favorite acting moments I've ever seen. And I think I've mentioned it on the part. I don't think of it. I'm repeating, what are you watching? Recommendation. But one of my favorite acting moments I've ever, ever seen in my life was a Christian Bale in out of the furnace. Oh, he fell down. Yeah, on the bridge. Yeah, I know that does get talked about a lot. Yeah, but man, the first time I ever saw that scene is seeing a man go for everything that he wants. and then out of goodness, except the the no, the way that he does that is just so powerful to me. I it gives me chills just thinking about it. So it brought me back when I was watching the New World to that moment where he was of that quality that Christian Bale really has. Like, like that's not even like it. Like it. I don't even think it can really teach like someone. How do you be noble, right? Like, right. Like I think there's something just like, innate, in someone's kind of overall essence that can come out. And now that I've seen it twice, it's one of the most powerful things. So I just was really, really thinking about, just Christian Bale and his body of work in that, that one moment in particular in that movie. And I like that movie out of the furnace. Yes, yes, yeah. Cooper I saw that at the Landmark in West Hollywood, and Scott Cooper did a Q&A after with Casey Affleck. It was cool. Never forgot that. Oh, yeah, it was awesome. Yeah. So that's always my memory of that. That's a good movie I need to see. Really good. Yeah. When we first met, I think one of the first movies you read to me was that one. Oh, I loved it. You really? Yeah. Oh, my God, I love this movie. Yeah. Big fan. I like Scott Cooper. I like hostiles a lot. I did too, yeah yeah yeah, yeah, he's he's Scott Cooper's a director that I, he worked in that, antlers one that came out. Oh, yeah. You love that movie. Yeah. I did not expect to like it. I think it's Keri Russell and Jesse Plemons. I. I went to the theater twice. It was just like, a simple, like, horror movie, like. That's it. They were just, like, telling it. I really liked it. Sorry to cut you off. It just popped into my head. He. He's a director that handles moments extremely well. Like, there's not, like his stories are a little bit like there's secondary. I'll say that they're secondary to the moment to moment. Yeah. and when he's operating in that, like it's one of the best directors I think we have right now. Yeah. Oh, that's just really good at capturing the human moments of a of a circumstance. Sure. Yeah, sure. Cool out of the furnace. Well, mine. You know, when we're doing a director, I like to look up what movies say. Like, it's a little difficult to find for Terrence Malick because he doesn't like talking about a lot. I knew that he loved White Men Can't Jump, for instance. That was like, one of his favorite movies. You're like, There's a movie that he. You know, I'm going to get a little, like, serious here. There's a movie that he loved so, so much in. It meant so much to him. And that is Ben Stiller. Zoolander. Oh my God, which I had not seen since I saw it in the theater in 2001. Like two, two weeks after nine, 11 or something. It was a it was a weird time and I was young and I just hadn't seen it since then, and I wanted to rewatch it for this episode just to see, like, I, I don't know, am I could it possibly be a what are you watching recommendation now? I watch it on the plane right out here yesterday. It just loved it. Had completely forgotten. There's a 2001 reference in it, had completely forgotten it. There's I mean like Alexander Skarsgard is in it for scene. I just forgotten there's a lot of people who weren't famous who became famous after. But moreover, when I'm on the plane watching this, I'm like, just imagining Terrence Malick. Watch this on repeat. Yeah. He was in so much that he reached out to Ben Stiller and told him that. So for Terrence Malick's birthday, one birthday, Ben Stiller dressed up and, like, send him a video as Derek Zoolander. I just, I, I mean, we're talking about, like, two very serious movies in Terrence Malick's filmography, but the fact that he loved Zoolander so much, I have to recommend it. It definitely holds up. We are talking about a little bit like it hasn't aged. It's not dated. Like all the things that would be dated, they still it's still works for today is hilarious. It's 2001 Barbie. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Well said. It really. It's like really is. It was so good. I just I don't know why I went that long without seeing it. Yeah I loved it. I'm glad you watched it. I didn't know that was a movie and I really I was even surprised to hear that you thought it was funny because it was a bit lowbrow. Yeah, it is, but it's also just imagining him like. Terry. Yeah, like it's okay. This is hilarious. Just telling everyone that he encountered like, oh yeah, Zoolander. It's one of my favorites unironically. I love you like the Jon Voight, is a dad. I totally forgot that Vince Vaughn is the brother. Just not talking. Not talk like God, I love that. He's like, I can't. I just breathe in. I don't know, I might have Black Lung. He's like, sure. I spent 20 years down there of the cause. He's like the black lung pop. Good job. Yeah. He's great. Dad, I was laughing. Didn't I just say that, like tonight? Just explain that you stepped in your dick. Yeah, I'm a hand model. It's different. yeah. A lot of fun. In short, like an hour, 29 minutes that you're just okay? Yeah. Talk about that. 90 minutes. Exactly. You're just in and out. this was a lot of fun. This is great. I'm so glad we waited to do this one in person. I think the one thing that I kind of wanted to say, I brought it back in the very beginning of the podcast. If any of you crazy, mad movie buffs are doing what we're doing it all, like, dive into this director, like, give yourself like a month. Yeah. And be like, you know what? I want to watch this director. Yeah. You can start in any order you want. Like you can. You really can. but, like, I guarantee you, you're going to get something out of it that you would never expect. Because these are the directors creating their vision for us. They're all different stories. They're all different this. They're all different that. But at the end of the day, what you end up getting is the essence of this human being. This is what they want to say. This is what keeps them up at night. This is what they want the world to get an idea of that what they have to say. And I really think that we've done this now, I don't know how many times, but I feel this way when we when we ever singularly pick out a director, even an actor like, I'm still I still get chills seeing a Heath ledger. Yeah, I picking that up. That was crazy. but try it. Funsies. Funsies. I did not think when we started this that he would be a fun director to binge. I think it's going to feel either a little bit more academic. Yeah, it was just the opposite. I fell in love and I went, I'm having a blast with this. It was so much fun. It really was a wash over. Yeah, it really felt like we just kind of like like, oh, here we go. Here it is like water, baby. Yeah. Like in like water. You love that. I think you start so many movies with water. We want to know what you think. Let us know your favorite Malick's. If we motivate you to check one out, we would love to hear what you think about it. Let us know on Twitter, Instagram, Letterboxd at. We underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex withrow.com. Nicholas Dose Telecom is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at WWI underscore podcast. We already teased it, but next time is our commentary on The Thin Red line. We love this movie. I am obsessed with this movie and we had a ton to say about it. Lot of fun. Stay tuned. Oh. Oh. 000000000000000. This girl, she didn't know where she was going or what she was going to do. Had no money on. Maybe she'd meet up with a character. I was hoping things will work out for her. She was a good friend of mine.