128: An Unofficial Guide to the Erotic Thriller Film Genre

Alex schools Nick on the history of the erotic thriller film genre. Topics include the parallels between 1940s film noir and 1980s erotic thrillers, TV cuts vs. theatrical cuts vs. director’s cuts, famous femme fatales, Michael Douglas, sex in cinema, the Top 10 Erotic Thrillers, and much more. For WAYW, Alex shares two exciting movie-going experiences he's had recently.
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Transcript

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Man. All right, let's do it. Yes, sir. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex with third. I'm joined by my best man, Nick, though. Still. How are you doing there, Ned racing. I got nothing for this one, I got nothing. It's William Hurt and body heat. that day will be important, Ned racing. That'll be important. how are you doing? I'm man, I am, I'm good, I'm good. I'm excited to be here, but for completely different reasons than I ever thought that I would be excited to be here. This has been a long time coming. I had no idea coming. Here it is, folks. The erotic thriller episode. We're going to cover it all. We're going to do some history on the erotic thriller genre. I'm going to list my top ten erotic thrillers. Nick. This is one where you're being a very good sport today because we're going to let me just cook a little bit, you know, I'm in my bag, I'm on my shit. I'm in rare form. Nick. Nick, I've been ready for this my whole life. I know you have. Wait. I have to give context to this. Do it, do it. So. So we been circling this episode for the pod since day one. Tamara and I, maybe, as many of you are thinking right now as you see this episode, erotic thrillers, I scoffed. I shook my head. I was like, oh God, he really, really wants to do this. I, I mean, I yeah, sure, why not? But it never I never understood the impact of what this means to you. Sure, sure, sure. And maybe you should put this up on Twitter X or whatever the hell you want to call it. Your outline. Because, ladies and gentlemen, mad movie buffs, I have received the outline for this episode and it is a college thesis. It is? Yeah, I, I underestimated Alex on this one big time. And so I'm I'm ready to go to school because I have not seen many of these movies. I have a few and I'm more in tune with film noir, which is something that we're going to get to when it comes to this. But I think I've already found, as maybe many of our audience might find, that I think we're living in a little bit of a misunderstood land when it comes to what this genre actually is. Oh, yeah, Mr. Withrow, I'm ready. I'm ready for the lesson. Thomas Edison invented film. No, no. Okay. No, I mean, yes, I do. I want to take this word. We're definitely gonna have fun today. But I wanted to take this a little seriously, because I know it could be weird. Like, it's two dudes talking about erotic thrillers, and I'm just. We're poking fun at everything today. Everything's fun. But I do think these movies for people born of a certain age. So we were born in the mid 80s, and that means we kind of came of age in the, you know, in the 90s. The reason why we're doing this podcast and why I wanted to do it, is because this genre of films, the erotic thriller genre, the erotic thrillers of the 80s and early 90s specifically were some of my favorite movies growing up, but not like not the crazy versions of them. I saw all of these on TV over and over and over. Not all of them. I shouldn't say all of them. I saw a lot of the movies we're going to talk about today there just on TV constantly, TBS, TNT, whatever. And I would watch them with my parents, my parents, who would most likely gone to the theater or knew, like the explicit versions, you know, the R-rated versions of them. But I had no idea. So I was young, just watching these movies on TV with my parents, and I got a little older, and some of my friends own these on VHS before I did. My friend JP oh my God, he had, like a, dresser drawer full of them. You'd open it nine and a half weeks. There it was. So we all started investigating the VHS versions of these, and we were like, oh my God, like the R-rated versions. It was like watching completely different movies, and we had no idea. And my friend, we're watching these before we knew, like, everything that was going on in them. So, and then there's a whole other evolution when I become a fan of them, we move on from VHS, we get to DVD. Now they're throw in unrated versions of some of these movies on it. So they just have this lineage. A lot of these movies are profoundly ridiculous. They're profoundly silly. Exact definitions of an erotic thriller do vary a lot. According to British film studies professor Linda Ruth Williams. Quote, erotic thrillers are numerous stories of sexual intrigue with criminality or duplicity, and on screen softcore sex, bodily danger and pleasure must remain in close proximity and equally important to the plot. So if you go on the Wikipedia page for erotic thrillers, as I have good Wikipedia page, they have up a very nice Venn diagram. And if you look at that Venn diagram, an erotic thriller is a hybrid of a thriller narrative, a romance story and softcore sex. The movies contain the movies containing sex, though the frequency of the sex depends on the film's big name. Directors came and did these movies A-list actors at their best stars of the movies were nominated for Oscars and were frontrunners to win Oscars, like Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, or if the roles were necessary but didn't necessarily attract Oscar prestige, the roles could. What could turn a career from, you know, a somewhat known to an A-list status like Sharon Stone Basic Instinct? Once that movie came out, she was Sharon Stone. I love these because they're such a specific type of movie where they have so many cliches. Often they have these amazing act one reveals, because we're like meeting everyone and everyone's getting along, and then someone's going to turn bad and you're figuring out that someone's trying to get money. You know, there's taboo sex. There's always a great list of supporting character actors in these movies. Always. There's always a good amount of them. There's always great, like homes, apartments, lofts. Yeah. There's a small sample size of profession that I really enjoy. Cops, criminals, writers, journalists, trust fund babies independently. Wealthy people, insurance salesman, architects, district attorneys. Talk about some of the troops really quick, because I'm not. We are going to list a lot of movies today, but I'm just trying to get to, like, why I like the genre so much. Some of the troops you're going to find a lot, obviously the femme fatale, the alluring, mysterious, seductive woman, villainous, potentially deadly, almost always greedy. There's the fall guy. That's who the femme fatale is going after. The Femme Fatales counterpart, the man who thinks he is smarter than he is, and the woman is very deceitfully trying to fuck him over. We have the home settle. That's not someone that gets. That's not something that gets talked about. That's usually the male version of the femme fatale, where femme fatale, where the guy is tried to get after the woman. Rob Lowe played these really, really well. Oh, that's kind of a setup. Oh, yeah. Rob Lowe was in, one of them made my top ten, and it's, I love it. But that's the thing. Like, there were so many A-list stars that did these once they, like, took over, they became a definitive genre. So even though you haven't seen a lot because I want to give myself a break, even though you may not have seen a lot, you know how prevalent these were. Like when we were growing up. They were always in the theater. They were always on TV, always. I was just going to say like this, this, even though I'm not as familiar with the genre, you could not see a movie poster or like, you go to the cinema and they would be plastered everywhere, or even more so at blockbuster Video Factory. Wherever you consumed your VHS content for renting videos, it would just be wall to wall. It would be like, this is the movie that everyone's renting, and I think it was a matter just of me being too young, to be honest. I think that even though I watched a lot of movies that were not of my age, I think the erotic thriller was just something that I just we just didn't do. I don't know why. Oh yeah, but I would always go towards action movies or things like that. And my mom would be like, yeah, you can watch that. But I guess I just never really had an interest in it at that age because I didn't know what they were. But I'd always be like, oh, it's one of those movies, because I didn't even associate the sex part of it. It was always, oh, these are like those thrillers like, yeah, almost like relationship thrillers. And I didn't know any better. So I was like, oh, that must be boring. That must be this, that must be that. And but you would see, like, Michael Douglas pop up in all of these things. You'd see. Yeah. Like, you know, I like all of, like these A-list stars, like, as you were saying. And even as you were kind of talking about this, I was like, what occurred to me is that you're really talking about a genre that really does not exist anymore at all. Or I was going to ask if it has evolved in some way into what the equivalent of that would be today. I don't know if there's like TV shows that bridge this genre or I mean, I mean, we talk extensively about deep water because that's, masterpiece, a top ten movie for me from the year that came out. Tim. Right. It's if you didn't like if the younger audience is listening to this podcast, don't know about these movies. Like, this is a very popular genre that lasted a certain period of time. That was very real. And now it is not exactly. And these movies made money like a lot of these were. Yeah, these were not independent films. Major studios were making them, releasing them all the time. I am going to get that was like a cliff notes history. You know, I talked about that Venn diagram another way to look at an erotic thriller is it is quite simply a film noir with sex that. Yeah, that's it. How much sex depends. And when I get to the some categories of them, I'm going to split them apart. That just because there's a high frequency of sex, that does not mean it is a good erotic thriller that doesn't. That there's not a 1 to 1 ratio there. I'll get to that. But let me go to the 40s, the 1940s. Oh, God, I love film noir. You love film noir. Yes. But if you go back and watch a lot of film noir sex, could never be shown on screen in the 1940s. But sexual innuendo is hinted at constantly. You have to use your imagination and your critical thinking go, oh, when they kissed and faded to black, that was them getting ready for the sex scene. And then the movie faded back up and they're smoking in bed. Usually not even in bed. They're like smoking already dressed, and they're like, oh, we just cut out that scene. We cut out the sex, and then, you know, getting dressed again. The implications are clear when you go back and watch these movies. With that understanding, Billy Wilder's Double Indemnity, arguably the first film noir ever in a movie that I love, it does this with Barbara Stanwyck and Fred MacMurray constantly, where they kiss and then, you know, it all kind of fade to black. Film noirs do this constantly. They have most all of the tropes of the erotic thriller that the erotic thriller got the tropes from film noir, femme fatale, all that stuff. But film noir just cannot explicitly show sex when we jump to the first erotic thriller. Because Double Indemnity is widely considered to be the first film noir, the first erotic thriller is widely considered to be Lawrence Kasdan's Body Heat, and that film is essentially an uncredited remake of Double Indemnity. Yes, so this is what I mean. Like you, you will start to see. I believe they even say the words Double Indemnity in that film. Or if they don't, I'm just getting it confused because I've watched, I don't know, 50 erotic thrillers in the past month. That term is thrown around all the time because it's a way for insurance to pay off more. So you get a lot of wives wanting to kill their husbands because they want that double indemnity insurance clause. But instead of cutting away when Kathleen Turner and William Hurt start to kiss, Kasdan goes all in and it is sweat, smoke, heat, skin, and the erotic thriller is born. That's so. I love that parallel of Double Indemnity to Body heat from the onset. That's what the erotic thriller was. By and large, uncredited remakes of old film noirs Double Indemnity becomes Body Heat, psycho becomes dressed to kill Lolita becomes, Lolita. Wow. Yeah. Oh my God. So that's the 40s. That's the film noir in the 1950s. America goes prude. We've talked about it on the place in the sun podcast. It is not a time when film noir is or popular. It is not a time when sexuality on screen is popular. In the 1960s, European eroticism in cinema begins to get a little more mainstream. By the 70s, Americans have adopted that. So now we're seeing American eroticism in cinema in the 1980s. Aids hits, porn moves to VHS. It's no longer the only way to see porn in the 70s was to go to a theater. I just watched hardcore yesterday. Topless Raiders, Paul Schrader's cut I Fucking Love It with Paul Schrader's commentary on it, and that was the only way to consume porn. Then they start making porn on video. They're releasing it in stores. So the mom and pop stores never the blockbusters, but the mom and pop stores could start carrying actual porn with that. There's a shared cultural fear of Aids in the 80s. Why this saw a rise of the erotic thriller. Some historians have theorized that happened because pleasure and pain was so intertwined in such an enthralling way on film, and watching these movies was like pleasure without the regret, because having sex in the real world can be dangerous, but having sex on screen is no longer. It's safe because it's on screen. So you're just watching people, and now, instead of not having to go in that back room in the video store and get the X-rated movie, now you can rent something like Fatal Attraction, hugely popular movie, most popular movie of 1987, Fatal Attraction. If we adjusted for inflation, that movie made more money than any movie in 1987. It's because a lot of people are renting it and, you know, it has some sexy scenes and it's not some sex romp. There is not like all the wall sex scenes in it, but they're becoming more popular. So now by the late 80s, specifically 1988, 1988 to 1993, this genre peaks 1992 specifically is the pinnacle of the genre. There are no less than 15 erotic thrillers released that year by major studios, including, one of the all timers Basic Instinct. And that's when it's hard to pinpoint when an actual film genre peaks. 1992 is the peak of this entire genre. 1993 to 1998 the genre is getting way too horny. It's starting to become a cliche of itself. People are making fun of them. 1998 to 2003. This is, the post peak era in some, some important cultural things are happening here. The more popular the erotic thriller genre got, the more popular the direct to video and Cinemax movies got. And those those are not starring Michael Douglas. Those are not getting nominated for Oscars. Those are made for one reason. And you know what that reason is? And those are kind of dulling the impact of more. Quote unquote, prestige erotic thrillers. And then, you know, straight up, when internet porn takes over, the erotic thriller dies because it, again, has been theorized that the reason why these films don't exist anymore is because pornography so accessible. Now, what's the point of writing an erotic thriller when you can just get it on your phone? In my research, that is one of the cultural reasons I can find from essentially 2003 to now why this huge shift in sex on screen has happened, because pornography, the rise of it on the internet boomed. Everyone has a smartphone now, so I'm just this is the only time we're going to talk about this subject. We're going to get to the movies later. I promise. But there's definitely something to that. Those websites have not lessened in popularity. We come on, we all know that. But these movies by and large have. So I don't know what's going on. what's going on? This is wild, man. Go to school, baby. Some fascinating shit like this. Isn't the Aids thing really interesting? This is real. This is that there have been books written about this shit, like written by film studies professors. It's fascinating. It's. I mean, you just broke down, like. I mean, of course it's all like he said, theorize. But I mean, essentially this is America and sexuality and like where and when it was like, wanted how it was preferred. And it's always been, you know, there's always been like a ceiling to it. There's always been sort of like, because America's so weird about sexuality. Yeah. That it's like, when do this the culture want it. And what is the how venue in which that they, they want to consume it. Speaking of going back to school, my very first introduction to any type of film education was, a class I took in college that was a film class. That was that that particular semester they chose film noir. We had a whole entire breakdown on film noir. Like what made it that we actually didn't. We did talk about erotic thrillers, but they weren't classified as that as much as they were the neo noir. Sure, sure. Like you hear that term? Yes. Yes. Yeah. And and, body heat, was it to your point? It was the very first one that was at least in this class, talked about in that way. I remember watching and I'm going to ruin my, my what are you watching recommendation. the, the 1940s, the postman always rings twice. Oh, man. Yeah. Because, yeah, you're talking about Double Indemnity and how they alluded to sex. And that's how it was in the 40s in almost any genre. It wasn't just film noir. If there was, a sex scene, the fade away, the, the, the, the idea that this is what was happening. But postman always rings twice. It's wild. It's smacks you in the face. Oh, innuendo. Oh, it's almost even more erotic in some ways than actually seeing it, because it's sort of like the tension is just off the friggin charts. Imagination. That's what I'm talking about. Yes, your imagination. Yes. Yes. And so to kind of like, see, as decades go on, where and when this eroticism comes back into American, entertainment is crazy. And, like when you were talking about, like, I remember like that, that 1998 to 2003 that post peak where you were like, all right, this is where it's dying, like it's becoming a parody of itself. you'd see those movies come out and then it would be like, oh, it's one of those. Yeah. And that and that really was the the way everyone looked at it. And now, yes, it is like completely dead. Even though Deep Water existed. It was a straight to Hulu thing. Yeah, exactly like, I'm not saying that these movies don't ever get made like passages was that's not released by a major American studio. But that and it's not really like a thriller, but that sex still exists in movies, but it is nowhere near as prevalent as it used to be, especially on a studio level. Independent film. It's always fair game there. If it's from Europe, that is always fair game. Postman Always Rings Twice is a great example of this, because we're going to get to some categories here before I get to my top ten. But one of them I'll just jump to it was film noir turned erotic thrillers, i.e. remakes. There were some of them which were, kind of blatant rip offs, like Body Heat was where no one is. No one involved in Double Indemnity was getting paid for that. It's never an actual credited remake, but The Postman Always Rings Twice has a very popular remake starring, yeah, Jack Nicholson and Jessica Lange, directed by Bob Rafelson, who did five Easy Pieces written by David Mamet. It was Mamet's first screenplay, and instead of innuendo, they just go, they're going, oh, right there on the on that table. Oh my God. And it goes on and on and you're like, oh, wow, it's exactly that where they're going. Hey, remember in the original when they cut now. Yeah. We don't have to cut. You know we're not doing that. Hey I rewatched that one in class because we watch both of those movies to show exactly this difference. Yeah. Wow. It was almost uncomfortable in the classroom setting to be. You watching that? Yeah. Because it's like, yeah, none of us knew what to expect. And all of a sudden it's like, oh shit, this is just straight up porn. Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, they they go for it. I mean, they go there against all odds in 1984 is a remake of out of the past, one of my favorite films of ours. I love that movie. Love the Kiss before Dying in 1991, The Getaway in 1994, where now we have Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger, who were married at the time going at it, which certainly Steve McQueen and Ali MacGraw could not do in the 70s. Diabolique. Lolita. Wow, the 1997 Lolita. That's just a category. Those aren't in my top ten, but I'm just, you know, starting to like, name some about very specific remakes. Before I get to my list, we got to do something really important, which is I got it clear, clear the way. Clear the path here for the real erotic thrillers. Because if you go to Google and you type in best erotic thrillers, you get a lot of crazy shit. These are not erotic thrillers. These are why they did not make my list. So I'm going to go through not going to. I'm certainly not talking at length about all of these movies, but all of these came up often in my research, and they're not. It does vary somewhat. Else could have a list would be like no, that technically counts. Like here's a good one, American Gigolo. It's not erotic thriller number one. There's actually not that much sex in it. There really is. And people think there might be, but there really isn't. And there's nothing like that that has the makings of a film noir thriller where they're clearly trying to frame this guy. But I wouldn't count them. I wouldn't count No Way Out, starring Kevin Costner and Sean Young and Gene Hackman, that's more of a political thriller with a few sex scenes betrayed in 1998. amazing film by Costa Garbus. You really liked, missing from 1982 with Jack Lemmon and Sissy Spacek. Yeah, he also did Z. That's a good one. After Dark, my sweet, presumed innocent. Maybe one of my maybe, if not the number one Harrison Ford performance. To me, I love Presumed Innocent 1990 has like a brief sex scene, but it's not an erotic thriller, more of a courtroom thriller. Have you ever seen that? No, but I remember fucking love that movie. Oh my God, Alan J. Pakula. Oh, you did All the President's Men. Yeah, that was, I presumed innocent was always one of those movies where I remember seeing the cover of it all the time. Yep. Yeah. And and then being like, oh, it's got Harrison Ford never, ever picking it. Picking like every other Harrison Ford. Oh, man. All right, all right. I need to buy it. Some of these I've gone and like bought because they've been released on Blu ray. Great movie. Not in the rock thriller kind of go fast. Pacific Heights creepy Michael Keaton, great mortal thoughts. Creepy Bruce Willis, sleeping with the enemy. abuse, Julia Roberts damage, unlawful entry, evil Ray Liotta, malice, evil, Alec Baldwin, Dead Ringers and crash, both by David Cronenberg. And then these last 2 or 2 huge ones, movies that I absolutely adore, Eyes Wide Shut and Mulholland Drive. Those have eroticism. Those are not erotic thrillers like I'm talking about. I think people get what I'm talking about. I'm not necessarily talking about like, the best movies with sex ever made. That's not what we're talking about. No, tell you what, they have to have some of those cliched elements. Yes. Not all of them, but some Eyes Wide Shut. Doesn't even that that does not count. Mulholland drive has eroticism to it, but that's not that's a Lynch thing. Those that's a Kubrick film and a Lynch film. Those are on their totally separate category. So I like all of those movies, but I would not that they were not considered in my list and even, like to the all those movies that you listed there is like a handful of ones that I've seen. And I have to agree, like I would not consider American Gigolo in that no way out, sleeping with the enemy could come close, but it's too dramatic. Yeah, and I rewatch I rewatched all of those because I, you know, I wanted to be clear. I didn't want to, like, talk out of turn here. And that one, I mean, to be perfectly honest, there's like a, it's it's not even fun to talk about, like, he that's about an a really, an abusive husband. And he and she's married to him, and he forces her to have sex in the beginning, that it's not erotic. That's abuse. No, that's the only sex scene. That's the only sex scene in the movie. To me, that's not an erotic thriller. That is a really good, like, 90s thriller. I love Julia Roberts in that movie. It's the end of that movie like she, which he calls The Police. It's such a good scene, like it's a good movie. It's not an erotic thriller, though. There's nothing erotic about it. It just has a title that sounds like one. Exactly. Yeah, because everyone was trying to get in and mark it up. Yeah. Like, yeah, even like Presumed innocent, like. Yeah. All this, all this stuff. one more category before we get to the top ten list. And I'm going to go through this fast. There's a category of erotic thrillers involving underage girls. I just mentioned Adrian lines, Lolita. These movies involve very young women and an older man. All these movies. I'm not into this shit. The crush, the babysitter, poison Ivy. These are not for me. And I'm not talking about any of them today. That's it. I remember those movies, actually. Those are the ones that they were everywhere. They were everywhere. Yeah. The crush Carrie, always. Yeah, I rewatched that. I don't know if I'd ever seen that. Like start to finish in full. It's really short. It's like 83 minutes. There's a really famous scene with bees that I remembered to be seen. Yeah, but then I'm watching. I'm like, yeah, this is I'm just not into this at all. Like, he's in his 30s. She's supposed to be like 14. Is it not for me? Not for me. Nothing on my list. There's something that gets a little close, but nothing else on my list is okay. Actually, actually, this is a good thing to bring up. Now, a lot of the movies I'm going to talk about today that are on my list are considered by 2024 standards to be extremely problematic. that's another reason why this genre probably doesn't exist. Yeah, I can call out some of the problems in them. And it's not they're certainly not things I agree with. But yes, some of the content is not, the safest or certainly not the most politically correct. I never liked that stuff. Even when I was a kid. I was like, I don't need to see, like under it. It's just, I don't know. It's not for me anyway. Do you do you think like the, the use of sex as a weapon? Because that's a that's a trope that's pretty much. I mean, it's a part of every film noir. That's part of the trope of the femme fatale is using. Yeah, quite literally using her body to get what she wants. That is exactly what Kathleen Turner is doing in Body Heat. She picks a guy out. Yep, he is a guy who, just thinks he's so much smarter than he is. And she's like, okay, she never says this. There's no big monologue where she's like, talking to a friend or looking at us. But the whole movie, she's going, I know how to screw this guy over. If it means I have to screw him, then so be it. Yeah. All's well that ends well. Yeah, a lot of the movies are set up like that. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's that's part of it though. That's the set. Yeah. That that's mean these movies work on a certain structure. That is it's a formula. And but that's, that's why it's a genre. Absolutely. Okay. I think you have access to my top ten. I gave you access to most of them and the order. So maybe you should kind of tee them up for me. But I want to say, before we get to the list, my list is ranked. So these movies are not in chronological order, so I will I did try to give some chronological, you know, historical context earlier, but as we go, that's part of it because my number ten here will feel a bit out of place. But that is all. That's why it's number ten. But it's also I'm going to explain why it's here, because some people may argue with me that it is not an erotic thriller. And I hear you, but number ten. Number ten. Yes, yes, and yeah, we'll explain why. But what do you watch is coveted list at the top ten erotic thrillers is here, folks. Let's get after it. Introduce us with number ten, a movie I believe you have mixed feelings about. Well, it's not a movie that I have mixed feelings about. It's a movie that I saw as a kid. I only thought one way about this movie as a kid. Sure. I mean, it's a movie that I've always laughed at because you do, I there's probably not too many other movies that I have heard you reference as much as this. You're damn right. There would be some times I'd be like, do you actually really like this movie? I fucking love you. I love this movie. And you've always been telling me to go back and rewatch it and I never have. So I you're showing me the poster. I'm holding up my boxset. No, it's oh, it's a by arrow video. It's 4K baby 4K Blu ray. I got it right here. Came with a poster. What movie are we talking about though? We are talking about 1998 Wild Things. I should, insert the music score cue right here. Right. So, yes, right off the bat, my 10th spot. I'm going with perhaps the best intentional sendup of the erotic thriller genre ever made. To be clear, Wild Things is trash, but it is a trash masterpiece, a masterpiece. The film knows exactly what I didn't make that up. I've heard that before. The film knows exactly what it's doing the entire time, with its soap opera tone, its eye rolling high jinks, the cat all of the cast understood the assignment so well. Everyone had a blast making this movie. I recently, oh, about a year ago, I bought the astoundingly assembled arrow 4K release. The film watched all the special features. Listen to the commentary by director John McNaughton. It's a great movie. You know what else this director did? Henry? Portrait of a Serial Killer. Oh, shit. Yeah, yeah. And, Mad Dog and Glory with DeNiro and Bill Murray, which is how he gets Bill Murray and Wild Things, because you're like, how did he get Bill Murray and Bill Murray's hilarious and Wild Things? But I do want to be clear that this film technically skirts on the edge of eligibility for an erotic thriller because it's bending all of the cliches of the genre in a way to be funny without being a farce. And I really don't think people appreciate how delicate a tone like this is to achieve this movie is ridiculous, but it knows it. You know he's an asshole, but he knows it. It's just it's I love it. I rewatched it for this. It was just I love this movie, but everyone in this movie was like older. They, you know, they said it in high school because they thought that, you know, they were not high school age. It's all I'm saying. So I'm saying. Yeah. So yeah, I love this movie. And for every movie in my top ten, we're going to do two fun categories. One, I'm going to list my favorite character actors in the movie, and then two, I'm going to list what a very sane critic named Roger Ebert said about each film, because Roger Ebert was a champion of the erotic thriller genre, by and large, on occasion, on occasion, character actors and wild thing. The great Theresa Russell as Denise Richards mom Teresa Russell is so good in things like crimes of passion, horror horrors, a great movie night. It's a really innocent 17 release released a year after Pretty Woman. It's like the NC 17 Pretty Woman. Both were directed by Ken Russell. No relation. He's an amazing director. She I love her. She was in Black Widow, not the new one at the 81 b side erotic thriller. We also have Robert Wagner in why? Robert a lot of people, a lot of people from our generation know him as number two in the Austin Powers movies. Yeah, but he's been at it since the 50s. He was in Titanic, the 1953 Titanic, the original a kiss before dying. And he may have also killed Natalie Wood. It's, you know, who knows? Hard to say. Sorry. Fun fact Roger Ebert, while Things three stars, Wild Things is lurid trash with a plot so twisted they're still explaining it during the closing credits. It's like a three way collision between softcore sex soap opera and a B-grade noir. I liked it. Ebert. Yes, that's number ten. Wild Things. number nine, a movie I had only seen once and rewatched it for this and went, wow, creepy, I liked it. Have you ever seen it? I have not, I have not. Do you want me? Do you want me to team up? I'll, I'll do them all. Yeah, yeah. Team up, team up. Yeah. Because you're talking about famous like blockbuster covers. This is a. Oh, yeah. Timer. Blockbuster cover. Yeah, yeah. This is, this is number nine. Single white female, 1992, the year that apparently it was the boom in this city on this street, in this apartment, an ad for a roommate brought a stranger into Allison's life. Someone who shares someone who cares. Why the hell have you been? Someone who would kill to be her. Possible blood stains. Bridget Fonda. I know you weren't yourself when you did this thing. Jennifer Jason Leigh I know who I was. You single, white female. Living with a roommate can be murder. It was the boom. It was the peak. This is arguably the ultimate roommate from hell movie. Bridget Fonda is living in New York City. She's got a boyfriend, a good job. Everything's going well. Moves into a new apartment, and she finds out the boyfriend's been cheating on her. She kicks him out, go searching for a roommate, and she finds one in Jennifer Jason Leigh and within a few days, things are not going well. Jennifer Jason Leigh is changing her hair to look like Bridget Fonda. She's becoming possessive. This is the kind of erotic thriller where there's no money involved. No one's really trying to fuck anyone over for like, an insurance claim. It's just a movie about complete psycho obsession that has some eroticism in it. Oh, not some. It has some racism. It's great. Jennifer Jason Leigh goes nuts. She just becomes obsessed with her roommate. Yeah, I mean, what she is willing to do to, continue that obsession. Wow. Character actors Steven Weber, great. Steven Weber, Steven Steven Weber. Oh, yeah. You will never, ever forget Steven Weber in this movie. Let me tell you. Holy shit. Steven Tobolowsky is a huge shithead. Peter Friedman, that's Frank from succession. great actor Roger Ebert, single white female, three stars. There's a certain rising tide of madness and single white female that is one of the movie's pleasures. Of course, you may despise movies like this, but that is another subject. it's a good one. It's like single white female is. You know, none of these movies are over two hours long. They're a lot of them are like, the perfect 100, 105 minute range. They're just. They're just perfect right in there. And this not maybe the best one ever made. Not the most iconic, but it came out the year that the genre is peaking. There it is single white female, great film, even even you explaining it. It got me on the edge of my seat in a way that made me, like, super uncomfortable. And I find that with a lot of these, like, that's the enjoyment. Oh yeah, that's what you say right there. Yes. Like it's all about like the as like the cringe. but does. Well like you want to cringe like you want to be able to like you want to look away, but you can't. And it teeters on that line. And, there's one that I'm sure we're going to get to that I have to tell you about my experience with it. It I, oh, I had to I had to walk out of the room because I was, I was so I was so like, I was terrified for myself not even being in this situation. I know what movie you're talking about. Yes. And I promise we will get there. Yes. Number eight. Yes. Number eight. Number eight. And and this is one that I actually, I, I have not seen it recently, but I remember watching it and being like, what is this? Like this. Another famous VHS cover. Yeah. Yes, yes. Oh the green this is Jade by William Friedkin from 1995. But you have specified the director's cut. Yes. Mrs. Gavin, is that you on the tape? How could you let them do this to you? Trina? They didn't do anything to me, David. It was my choice. I was in control, and I liked. And she couldn't get enough of it. She loved it. They sort of sort of you. Before I heard the tape turn you on. One of those guys was the governor. She must have rocked his world. Was Medford blackmailing you? I don't get blackmail. Just gross. I cheated on my husband. I didn't know I could be arrested for. She's got no alibi. And we got a prints and a hatchet. If you're going to charge you, you charge a right now. I need your help, David. I'm afraid. Who am I speaking with? So a lot of these, a lot of them, when they were released on particularly VHS or not, not VHS when they were released on DVD and or Blu ray, they were equipped with director's cuts. Now. So Jade Jade is not a well-liked movie. It is made fun of a lot. The version that most everyone has seen. The version that I had seen before researching this episode, was a 95 minute version. I found out in my research, and right there on Amazon to rent was a director's cut. That's almost 30 minutes longer, like 25, 30 minutes. That is substantial. I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. Wait a minute. That's. I've read William Friedkin's memoir. I love William Friedkin. I don't remember him talking about this. I just remember Jade always getting mocked and picked apart because it was so, so silly. And this movie all told, the the theatrical version would not be making my top ten list because it's silly. This is one of the best director's cuts in this genre that I've seen. It was such a much better movie. It was not as absurd because the original movie makes so many leaps and you're like, what the fuck? How the hell did we get here? Who's this person? The director's cut just it connects everything. So I thought it was a totally new experience watching the movie, and that's what gave it such a big bump and why it made my top ten. But as I mentioned earlier, careers are really important to erotic thrillers. A lot of cops, but also a lot of lawyers. District attorneys, hugely important to the genre. In Jade, assistant District Attorney David Corelli, played by none other than David Caruso, yes, is investigating a gruesome murder in San Francisco. And pretty quickly, his best friend Chazz Palminteri and his friends wife Linda, 40, and Tino Florentino. Tough one to say. I'll probably just call her Linda from here on out. And the governor of the state are all looped in to this crime. Their sex perversion, videotapes, drugs, toys, blackmail. A Ford Thunderbird director's cut is a great film. I really loved it. I just loved it, man. Rupert is a soul. He plays a critical role. This plays a critical role. It does. I'm telling you more. More important, I would say, than William Friedkin directing. This is the writer. This is the first time I'm mentioning Joe Eszterhas, who became, the patron saint of erotic thrillers. I suppose he's a Hungarian screenwriter. At one point, he became the highest paid screenwriter in Hollywood during the erotic thriller heyday, and he wrote a lot of famous ones. His overall credits fist, Flashdance, Jagged Edge, betrayed, which I mentioned. Music Box, Basic Instinct, Nowhere to Run with Jean-Claude Van Damme, sliver, showgirls, Jade, very, very big screenwriter. He really like, made a name for himself. Showgirls. Yeah. Yeah. I saw showgirls on the big screen at Alamo in January, and it was sold out and everyone had a rousing good time. It was amazing. Amazing. It was incredible. That is not on my list today. Not an erotic thriller. Not sorry folks. Richard Crenna, that's Trautman in all the Rambo films, and he has a big role coming up in another erotic thriller. He's great. He plays a governor. Michael Biehn is injured. Yes, yes, yes he is. Holt McKinley. so good, so good. Great film. Ebert. Keep in mind, he was rating the theatrical version two stars. This movie contains bizarre murder, weapons, blackmail, adultery, criminals in high places, kinky sex, hidden cameras, a chase scene, nudity, knives, guns, and even reliable lines. As I'm taking you off the case, the problem is that they're not assembled in a compelling order. All right, that's fair. So, I mean, he I would agree with him. He's face for the 95 minute. He's listing all of the things that oh the things I mean he stars. Yeah. Like he's like this this movie should work. It has, it should. It's just. Yeah. It's not cut together. Well, I would argue that the director's cut is. And I don't know if that's if it's available. I'm going to buy it. I didn't buy it. The next one actually is the only one on my list that I'm talking about, because I already own a lot of these. It's the only one that I bought specifically after watching it for this episode I had read. I had seen it once, but when I rewatched it, I went, oh my God, I love this and this is going to be the one in my top ten that I think the least amount of. It's the least known. So I don't think a lot of people are going to. This is the one that I've never even heard of. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Coming in to number seven is masquerade by Bob Swaim from 1988. Behind every Kiss is a Clue. Do you have any idea what's going to happen if this gets out? Behind every suspect lies a secret. You don't think? I think you perform. It's Rob Lowe, Meg Tilly, Kim Cattrall, Doug Savant. Masquerade. The way some people love is a crime. It's great erotic thriller, you know? First off, this is written by Dick Wolf, and if you are a fan of every law and order, he is the creator of that. So here he is as a screenwriter, most erotic thrillers. A lot of the ones we're talking about today, they focus on 30 year olds, 40 year olds, people who have some money and there's others who want to take it from them. And the issue of getting that money is very prevalent in masquerade, but all the people involved are young stars. Rob Lowe, he's 24, Meg Tilly, she's 28, Doug Savant, love Doug. He's 24. Like I said, was easily my biggest surprise researching this episode. I watch it for the first time three years ago, but I loved it on this rewatch. I, I loved it so much that I bought the the Kino Lorber Blu ray equipped with a commentary by Bob Swaim. Listen to that. Two days ago. Watched it, loved it. And he said everyone had a ball making this movie. Just everyone. And you can really tell Meg Tilly is in the movie. She's young, parentless, rich, living in the South Hamptons, a ton of money to her name, and a lot of men in town wanted namely her shithead stepfather, John Glover, who may or may not have killed her mom. Then there's Rob Lowe. He's this new kid who works on boats. He's coming to town, he's making eyes at Meg, but he's involved with Mary. Older woman, played by Kim Cattrall, later known from sex and the city. Yes, this is great stuff. Tight 90 minutes. You're in, you're out. There are some truly shocking and believable twists in this that even in my second time watching it, I gasped aloud. I'm not even kidding. I just went, oh wow, I forgotten, really, really, really fun. I should also say, you know, no free ads, but almost every erotic thriller, even the ones where I would like good movies, not erotic thrillers, all the remakes, almost all of these are available on Tubi for free. Like, seriously, almost every single one like to be reps. The erotic thriller genre hard to be has, quickly become, my most used app because they just have everything you may have to sit through a few commercials, but I don't care. that's how I watch so many of these. You gave me a list of, like, if you can get to these, watch them, and they're almost all on TV. Like, I was like, oh, well, this is, it's a pretty one stop shop right here. Yeah. It's free, I love it. Character actors already mentioned a few Kim Cattrall, Doug Smart, Doug Savant was Matt on Melrose Place, Tom on Desperate Housewives. Great guy. John Glover, of course, was Mr. Clamp in Gremlins two, which people may remember from my podcast with Dan Roger Ebert, masquerade three stars. Masquerade is a thriller in the shape of a Chinese puzzle box. Every time Olivia Meg Tilly solves a mystery, there's another one hidden inside it. Love it. Great job Roger. This next movie is also one I saw at Alamo. I guess I was last year, two years ago. Well, you know, it can be because we live in, like, weird times now where people flip out about consensual sex scenes and Oppenheimer showgirls. In this next one we're going to talk about are these movies have sex, these movies have nudity. But the people who show up for these Alamo screenings like they know the deal and everyone's like, into it. This viewing my number six film was one of the most fun theatrical viewings I've had in years. People are into it and this movie's amazing. But what? This is a movie that is still talked about, like I this movie I had is come up a lot and this is, 1996 bound. Yes, by the witch houses. She's making an offer as Caesar's mafia. I need your help, Corky. Only a fool would refuse over $2 million because of money. Oh my God, look at this shirt. It is good money. You're asking me to help you fuck over the mob? Where is my money? If their plan succeeds, if they survive, sweet Jesus, if they can trust each other. I guess it was a job. They are bound. I think I'm a dead man for the money. I want more money. I want half the money for each other. What did she do to you? Everything you could. Bound. have you seen this? I have seen clips. And I think you just understand why I was setting you up for that I trust you. Oh. Oh, boy. Okay, that's not what I meant. But I understand what you mean. You would love the entirety of this movie. I assure you. This is an erotic thriller in which two main people involved, Gina Gershon and Jennifer Tilly, sister of Meg, appear to actually to actually care about each other and appear to be working together to rob a bunch of shitty male mobsters. So they are working in tandem to screw over a bunch of guys, not to screw over each other. Maybe got to see the movie? Who knows? Brilliant film. I honestly don't want to say too much about it. This was shot by Bill Pope, who would go on to shoot The Matrix for The Witches just three years later. Or rather, it was released three years later. This movie has so many good character actors. Joe Pantoliano is perfect in it. Christopher Meloni is oh my god, is he just remarkable. I love this movie. It is my favorite. Which movie? I, I watch it a lot. It's so good. It's just so fun. Roger Ebert for Stars Bound is one of those movies that works you up, rings you out and leaves you gasping. It's pure cinema, spread over several genres. This made its top ten of 1996. Bound was the most purely entertaining movie of the year. You said, here we go, number five. I don't know if you've seen this one. I know you've seen clips. I actually know, I know you have it because it's in the documentary about him out so as being cute. I never really saw that documentary together. Yes. Right. I love that documentary. Actually, it was De Palma. and this is Body Double by default. He thought he was watching her, but she was watching him. He thought he was trespassing, but he was invited. He knew he had gone too far. He couldn't stop. He saw exactly what she wanted him to see me. Brian De Palma, the modern master of suspense, invites you to witness a seduction mystery. A murder body double. You can't believe everything you see. I wish that's like my favorite. No. I'm back. Movie de Palma. Yeah, I love, I love that. I wish they would do that. Like one director a year where they talked about every single movie in order. And you could tell they just had him for, like, a two hour interview. Yeah. And then they just went through 90 minutes were done. I thought that was brilliant. Some of this work, some of them don't. He was willing to talk about all of it. One movie you may talk about for three minutes, another movie, maybe ten. I loved it, I loved that, and yeah, there's clips of Body Double in it. Of course, that's what I meant. Honestly, this the De Palma movies do not feature as much actual sex as someone may think. I would argue. Maybe even Dressed to Kill features more sex, but that I didn't really put that in an erotic thriller. I don't know, we're pulling hairs here, but body double, at any rate, is in the Mount Rushmore of essential Brian De Palma movies. It may not be one of your personal favorites, but it is arguably the most Brian De Palma movie. Brian De Palma ever made. It was a really long sequence that has nothing to do with sex or eroticism, but it's so thrilling. It's just a guy following a woman. pretty much throughout her day as as she shops, she makes calls. She meets someone on the beach. I saw this movie when I was young, and there's way more intense shit in the movie than that many stalking session, but it's stuff like that is just never left my mind. And I'm rewatching it for this and I'm like, oh God, here it is. I mean, this is a movie where a deranged killer murders a woman with a gigantic handheld drill, and yet this like, walk follow thing is imprinted in my head. I don't know, it's a sexy movie, but like I said, not as does not contain as much sex as you may think. You know, there's a lot of sexuality seen from afar. There's a lot scene on videotapes. Melanie Griffith is superb in it. Her character name is Holly body. What a name. What a name. That's crazy. Great character actors. Greg Henry. You may know him as Val in Payback with Mel. Oh, Dennis. Franz. Of course. Brian is a staple. Love him. Roger Ebert three and a half stars. Body double is an exhilarating exercise in pure filmmaking, a thriller in the Hitchcock tradition in which there's no particular point except that the hero is flawed, weak and in terrible danger. And we identify with him completely. Yes. Good job. That's awesome. That's that's a cool review. It's so funny, kind of going through like these lists of people that have work that you're kind of giving these credits to because almost all of them have gone on to some type of TV in that, like Dennis Franz was like like Chicago blue, NYPD blue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, NYPD blue. Dick Wolf's like, became that guy. David Caruso is sort of like. Because all of these guys, you could kind of give a little element of cheese to even like Christopher Meloni, you know, for everything that he's doing. And, they live in that area. So it's natural that this is where their careers have gone, being a part of these movies. Yeah. Good point. I never really thought about that. This next one, I don't know if you've seen it. Oh my god, yes, I love this. You have I have you have all this this really fucking love this movie. This was one of the ones that we watched in my film noir class that I remember sticking with. I was like, oh, this movie's fucking great. This is this a yeah, perfect erotic thriller film noir. Sorry. Go ahead. Yes. Because exactly that. Like, it was like this was every bit of a new. And Linda Fiorentino is just. Oh my God. Wow. I mean, it's it's, it's, she's pure evil. Pure evil. What's the movie the Last Seduction by John Dahl from 1994. Country. The first seduction was fast. Give your own place. Yes. Indoor plumbing. Yes, I have indoor plumbing, I have electricity and I have a name. It was easy. Different than the others. Mike. I feel like maybe I could love you. But the last seduction. What type of list are we trying to make? Cheating husband was murdered. This guy in New York. 10 million. Payoff to the widow if he dies, want a natural death? She's willing to give us the third. Good. Talking about murder. Linda Fiorentino, Peter Berg and Bill Pullman in a film by John Dahl. The Last Seduction. This is an erotic thriller masterpiece. What? I did not remember about it. I rewatched it for this. What I didn't remember is that it's funny. She's really funny and dry and sarcastic. It's very jazzy, very seductive. It can get old, but it's great. It is. There's a lot of like, jazz music in it. I mean, John Doll, four years later, he's directing rounders, you know, cuz after that he's directing joyride. This is one of those studio directors that I just always reliable. Red Rock West is such a good movie with Nicolas Cage. Oh my God. There are some very famous films to tell erotic thriller performances. And as you alluded to, Linda Florentino Florentino as Bridget Gregory is that I mean, she is the epitome of a cold, smart, calculating femme fatale. It is so much fun to watch her in this movie. She really makes it worthwhile. And if you've never heard of this movie, or if you didn't hear about it in the 90s, it's because it could not find a distributor and it premiered on HBO first, making it ineligible for Oscars. And I mention that because Linda F is better in this movie than any of the nominees for Best Actress in 1994, which were Jessica Lange, blue Sky. She won Jodie Foster in Nell, Miranda Richardson, Tom and Viv, Winona Ryder, Little Women, Susan Sarandon, The Client now, Nick, I know you've studied this race in this league. You actually wrote a critical thesis on the topic Best Actress 94. This is why Linda was left out. So maybe you can illuminate for the listeners how old, how good all these performances are. Because I know you love them all so much. Tom and Viv. Absolutely. I mean, where do you start? Where do you start? I don't know how long. I don't I don't know how long we can keep this bit going. I have any that's what I'm saying. It's just stupid. So the reason why I heard about the last auction was I'm just going to jump right to it because of Roger Ebert. Because this stuff used to piss him off endlessly. He was mad. One that the movie not find a distributor that no studio wanted it. So then HBO takes it. And because it premiered on HBO, it made Linda ineligible for the Oscar. And he was pissed. He gave this movie four stars and called it his fifth favorite film of 1994. Keep in mind, 94 is when his favorite film of the decade, Hoop Dreams, comes out, so this is a big deal. Here's what he said Linda seems to enjoy the freedom of script like The Last Seduction gives her, and the result is a movie that is not only ingenious and entertaining, but liberating, because we can sense the story isn't going to be twisted into conformity with some stupid formula. And it is. A lot of the movies I'm talking about today are fun because of the formula. You can see where they're going. There are tropes, there are cliches. The Last Seduction acknowledges a lot of those, but then he braces them or spins them on their head. You have character actors like Peter Berg. Well, what? I mean, talk about an amazing fall guy. Bill Pullman, as our husband, shithead Dean Norris, JT Walsh, Bill Nunn I love this movie. So glad to hear you'd seen it. I had no idea. Yeah. No idea. And I never thought we would talk about this because it's like one of those movies where it's like, where is this really going to come up in the conversation? That's why I want to do this, because a lot of these movies aren't we don't talk about really. I don't know when the hell am I ever going to talk about masquerade again? Great movie. Masquerade. Yeah. All right. What does it say here for number three? It says for the following three, three, two and one. These are withheld for dramatic effect. So mad movie buffs. I don't know what Alex has picked in these last three. And I am terrified. Number three. It's already been discussed. It's Lawrence Kasdan's first film as a director. Body Heat. Yes, I'm a married woman. Meaning what? Meaning I'm not looking for company initiatives. That I'm a happily married woman. That's my business. What? How happy I am and how happy is. You're not too smart. I. I like that in a man. What else do you like? Lazy. Ugly? Horny. I got it, mom. You don't look lazy. Tell me this chat like this. Work with most women. Some of them aren't around much. I wanted to help. Maybe I was out of touch. I might buy you a drink. I told you I got a husband. I'll buy him one too. He's out of town. My favorite kind. We'll drink to it when only comes up on weekends. I'm liking him better all the time. Essentially an uncredited remake of Double Indemnity. This is Kathleen Turner's first movie. This movie is absolutely marvelous. Like I said, it's sweat, heat, betrayal. Sex. Turner is Mattie Walker, a woman with an older rich husband played by Richard Crenna. Here he is again. He's away a lot. She's stuck in South Florida. She's sweating, smoking. Everyone's sweating, everyone's sweating. She meets a doofus lawyer named Ned Racine, played by William Hurt. They begin to have an affair and cook up a plan to murder Mattie's husband. And then run off with the money. This movie is a miracle for a lot of reasons, but a lot of the reasons are because of how good Hurt and Turner are individually and together. Turner is. She's the perfect embodiment of a modern day femme fatale that is the template for the erotic thriller Femme Fatale, and hurt is the embodiment of the, Dunning-Kruger fall guy effect. He's a guy who thinks he is so much smarter and craftier than he really is, but honestly, he's just some literally hot lawyer. He's hot looking and he's hot, sweating. Who makes decisions with his penis? Oh, he does, but on the inside, character actors. Richard credits so good. He just has a great voice. A young Ted Danson who seems to. Yes, it's an 80s movie. He's dancing around a lot. His energy, he's very, very energetic the whole time. I don't know. Mickey Rourke, a young, smoldering Mickey Rourke as an arsonist. Oh my God, body heat. Roger Ebert four stars. His eighth favorite film of 1981, women are rarely allowed to be bold and devious in the movies. Most directors are men, and they see women as goals, prizes, enemies, lovers and friends, but rarely as protagonists. Turner's entrance in Body Heat announces that she is the film's center of power. This is Mattie Walker. To see her is to need her look, and that's a great review rate. a lot of these I took from either a lot of my quotes are either his lead, so his first paragraph or his kicker, his end. yeah. Great. But you've actually seen body heat, which I didn't know. I'm so glad to hear that. So yeah, I mean, it's a fantastic movie and and I it is a great you could do a double feature of Double Indemnity and Body Heat, and I don't think that you would feel like you're watching the same movie. No. You did that for this episode. Yeah. Like literally back to back. And it was great. It was great. Yeah. They they can live together even though they are paired like that. I love that parallel. Yeah. Oh man. It's such a good movie. Yes. Very sweaty. Everyone's just like sweating their ass off the whole time. Crazy. You can feel the heat. Feel the heat. Baby. Number two is in the movie you alluded to earlier, this one that you watched for the first time for this episode. Yep. That is. I can't believe we've gone this long, this episode and I haven't done I haven't talked more about Adrian Lyne and specifically his 1987 critical and commercial success, Fatal Attraction success. This movie was. This movie was nuts. Like, I said, it made the most money of any movie. In 1987 it got nominated for and damn near won Oscars. A look that led to an evening. We are attracted to each other at the party. That was obvious. You're on your own for the night. That's also obviously a mistake he'd regret all his life. I where's your wife? Okay, honey. Oh, God, I can you hear me? The strange girl being a naughty boy, I don't think having dinner with anybody is a crime. I. I'm scared. Jimmy, you play fair with me. Do you have an affair with her? I'll play fair with you. I don't want to lose my you. Are you scared of me? Are you fine? When I finally. If you ever come near my family again, I'll kill you. You understand that? I'm not going to be ignored. Alicia. Where's Ellen? She's gone. Call the police. Fatal attraction. I guess you thought you'd get away with it. Well, you can't, and. 87 is really where we see this genre beginning that peak because it's been on, you know, they've been testing it out, have been doing different stuff. But a lot of it, like Jagged Edge is in 1985, but that's more of a courtroom thriller with Glenn Close and Jeff Bridges. Good movie. I wouldn't really consider it an erotic thriller, and a lot of Adrian lines movies like nine and a half weeks, Indecent Proposal, unfaithful, Deep Water is an out and out erotic thriller, but those other three, none of those are really traditional erotic thrillers, because Fatal Attraction, Indecent Proposal and Unfaithful are all affair movies. There's no one like trying to get money. Nine and a half weeks is just a relationship that doesn't go that well. That's that's all that is. It's not. There's no big scheme. There's no femme fatal in any of that fatal attraction as well. There's no noir plot element. No, it's only an affair gone horribly wrong. Plot element. No one is trying to trick or kill someone to get their fortune. The movie just showcases that an affair that lasts one weekend in which bad decisions are made. This is not something that's going on for years. Bad decisions are made. Yes, lines across lines are crossed. And the absolute worst thing that can happen from that does happen. And you know, Michael Douglas from the movie starts, he's just happily married to an archer. He has a fling with Glenn Close, who he meets just a whoops little fling for him. But this becomes for Glenn Close, his character character name is Alex. I love that Glenn Close becomes attracted fatale. Oh, but let me hear your thoughts. Oh, I can't wait. When you meet him, it does seem like everything's great and I need not great, but it seems like everything's fine. It's just fine. Like he's kind of like a little dweeb, like, you know, we some married guy with, just with a kid, like. Yeah. It's fine. Same thing is unfaithful. If you guys have seen unfaithful, Richard Gere and Diane Lane are not, like, arguing with each other. It's just like it's a fine, maybe little stale marriage. They have a kid, like, things are fine. So very quickly, when Michael Douglas clearly makes a decision to go and have this affair, I was like, this is a guy who just did this because he uses the feeling a little stale. It's not a good reason. Oh, my God, it's so uncomfortable. Oh my God, it's just so terrifying. I don't want to spoil it because there's like a scene where she does something to herself, and then he has to take care of her as a result. This is not a this is not a spoiler. This is like in the these people are on there. These people are meeting in like minute six of the movie. Yeah. This is another thing I love about this genre. This shit moves in masquerade. The first sex scene is like 6.5 minutes into the movie. You're like, all right, we're here we go. We're in it. Yeah. We're cooking. Yeah. Fatal attraction failed, sorry, and Fatal Attraction, they're going. They're like meeting at that, company event. Yeah. The six, they're an idiot in minute eight, and they're, you know, using using that sink water in at like minute 13 or so. Yeah. And then, yeah, you can say it. Yeah. Or I can set it up for you. This is not a spoiler. They are spending a weekend together. He's doing man. You know what he does which is fucking evil. He brings a damn family dog to hang out with her. I'm like, yeah, just feels like I don't like this is, you're I don't know. And he he is clearly thinking, you know, wife's out of town. This is all going to be. This is a weekend fling. And when he needs to leave because he has to go home, like, get ready for work, his wife's going to be home. He has to do all this stuff. He has to go get the house ready. She's like, oh no, stay, stay. So she keeps making excuses. And then finally when this is done like this, I have to go. I have my wife is going to be home like I have to go. Thank you. She slits your wrists and confronts it. Yeah. And this is like minute 2530 and then, well, I mean, he can't leave now because she's done that. So yeah, now we know something is very, very wrong. Oh my God. And she and Glenn Close is so good in it too because you can see like he does the wrong thing by having the affair. But like she lays it on so thick like that dinner scene of just basically being like, this can be that easy. This can just can you be discreet? I can clearly she can't. And no, no, she's no, she's, I guess that is in the war element there. She's tricking him to she's, you know, get him because she seems like, hey, I'm chill. Like she's having her cigaret, like, yeah, this can be a she's making it seem like we can go back to my apartment. And then when you leave 20 minutes later, that's it. By that point, that's it. That's exactly how she sells it. Yeah. And he. It's because you can see him. He's sort of like, oh, man, if you weren't saying all of these things, I wouldn't even probably really do this. But you're kind of making it real easy to just do it. So I'm just going to go ahead and do it. Yeah. What is what is Keanu Reeves say? And knock, knock. It was free pizza. It was. You saw knock knock. I did know that. Yeah I love I love knock knock. I thought that movie is awesome. There's there's definitely I mean yeah there's elements. Yeah. There's a lot of elements to this because he's just like this kind of aloof guy who's like, happy ish. Yeah. I mean, Fatal Attraction is, it is number two. But because of its popularity, this movie inspired. So this is partly why that genre died, because there so many terrible knockoffs of it. But okay, a few points here. You asked way earlier what, like, kind of happened to these movies. What's interesting is that a lot of these have gone to TV. Yeah, Jon Bernthal was in an American Gigolo remake, which is not good. I watched an episode. I was like, okay, this isn't for me. Isn't Joshua Jackson in a Fatal Attraction remake? Or he was. It was, oh yeah. Something like that. I think they're remaking Presumed Innocent. So like for TV. So there's it's just so funny how these are the things that are getting ten episodes, I don't know. And then my Fatal Attraction story, a funny one. I just want to tell real quick. I was, my father in law Joe was over. This is a few months ago. we watch movies together. It's kind of our thing. And I'll let him pick. And he's like, there's one with Michael Douglas. Oh, God. It was a while ago, and he's married, and then it doesn't go well. And I look at him like, Joe, are you talking about Fatal Attraction? He's like, yeah, I want to watch that. So that's it. Hey, first time I saw this movie is with my mom, so it's no problem for me. But you gotta know, like the majority of the movies we watch, we've never. This is going to have some sexually explicit content. He's like, I don't care. You know, we're adults. So we put it on, watch the whole thing ending ending's crazy. soon as it's done, he goes, oh, well, that was good. That's not the movie I was talking about, though. It's one with Michael Douglas, and in the end, they're hanging from chandeliers. And I went War of the roses. And he was like, yeah, let's watch that one. Could have saved us a whole lot of awkward movie watching, but let's do it. So then we watch War of the roses. So that was a lot of fun. It was hilarious, actually. but character actors and Fatal Attraction, the great and Archer who is nominated and, I'll get to the nominations, but I love her. You know, the the wife, the the significant other in these movies is not always the strongest character. This is a strong character. Her phone call line delivery of this is Beth Gallagher. If you ever come near my family again, I'll kill you to. You understand? Oh, yeah. So good. Ice cold. Yeah. Fred. Gwen. Love that guy. Lowest. Fred. Go in. Fred, quit. Oh, God. Here's where things get interesting. I didn't know this. I didn't expect this. My number one in my number two. Roger Ebert. Not the biggest fan. Roger will attraction. Two and a half stars. Fatal attraction is a spellbinding psychological thriller that could have been a great movie if the filmmakers had not thrown character and plausibility to the winds in the last minutes and give us their version of a grown up Friday the 13th. Oh, so this brings us to a very interesting point. The ending. You saw the Fatal Attraction was not the original ending. That was not the ending they tested. They tested another ending where the Alex character dies by suicide. And then it looks like Michael Douglas has done it and the cops are holding him away. And then the wife discovers a voicemail or an answering machine message that she left, kind of saying what she has done. That was what Glenn Close signed up for. It's what everyone signed up for. That's what she wanted to do. They tested it and no one liked it, so they went back. Glenn Close to not want to do it. She refused for two weeks. She's like, I'm not doing this. You're betraying my character. So then they went back and I mean, it's Fatal Attraction. I think most people have seen it. But we get the ending. We get. Yeah, yeah, pretty wild it. I mean, that's a really, really, really radical change. And you have people kind of interestingly like Ebert calling it out in his initial review. Well, even watching it, I was like, oh, that's that was my like, I literally go, that's a move. Like that's like, yeah, like I wasn't expecting that. Which was that maybe like I was sort of associating that with like the genre kind of like, oh, there's even more turns as we go here. but I think I would have liked that, that, that ending better. I think that would have fit more. And I mean, they shot it. It's on the it's on the DVD. I have like, it's, it's you can find it on YouTube really easily. It's it's out there. Yeah. Very, very, very easy to find. I and a lot of other people think that Glenn Close, who still does not have an Oscar, actually should have won here. I would have given it to her. I would have given it to an archer as well. They both got beaten for respective Moonstruck performances. Cher won best actress and Olympia Dukakis won supporting actress. I get it, I don't know that Moonstruck was a huge thing at the time, but is fatal Attraction. But I just would have. I would have loved that if she actually won. All right. Number one has been withheld for dramatic effect. I have a feeling I know what it is, but but but maybe I maybe I'm wrong. No, no you're not. Most people by this point know what it is. You know, for a lot of movie genres, it's really hard to pinpoint exactly when the genre peaked. Maybe the war genre peaked in 1998 with Saving Private Ryan in The Thin Red line being released in the same year. It's hard to say, but the erotic thriller genre peaked with Paul Verhoeven's Basic Instinct release in 1992. This is not debatable. Basic instinct is the finest erotic thriller ever made. This movie is the definition of a trash masterpiece. Have you seen it in full? I'll ask. No, I have no. Oh, you never see Basic Instinct. You know you're in over your head. She seduces people. Two is internal Affairs. What's that? She likes people. Freeze. How much she pays play. Come on. She knows where I live. Breathe. Games are next. got San Francisco, early 90s. Michael Douglas is detective Nick Curran, a cop who's fighting off his desire for booze, Coke, cigarets and women. There's a sex murder. A famous rock star is ice picked to death while having sex with a woman. There's a suspect who Catherine Tramell played to Oscar worthy perfection by Sharon Stone, one of the greatest femme fatales of all time. Maybe the most iconic in all of movies. Within days of meeting Catherine Tramell, Nick has started drinking, smoking and oh, he's fucking again. He's getting into fights with Internal Affairs. A fucking Internal Affairs cop puts a gun to his head in the police station in this movie. What detective Nick hand is right on the edge of collapse, and only his interest in Catherine Tramell can keep him going. This movie contains such scenes as the infamous fuck of the century scene. It is. It's just absolutely iconic. It. I mean, this was nominated for Oscars, not major ones like Best Actress. I think it should have been, but it had. It was nominated for Best Editing. It has a score by Jerry Goldsmith. It's exactly what Paul Verhoeven did best, where he took these genres and just, you know, collapsed them onto themselves. Like his. The character study is what he's trying to do is showgirls. And it's like, hey, I mean, there we go. We got it. I don't know, an amazing killer's row of character actors. Here we go, George Dunder. However we say it, Jean Tripplehorn, Dennis art, Chelsea Ross, Wayne knight, Daniel von bargain. Rest in peace. Stephen Tobolowsky again. Jack McGee, the captain from Rescue Me, James reborn. Basic instinct. I mean, if you know, you know, there's not. There's only so much you need to say what Sharon Stone is doing in it. Sharon Stone was in Verhoeven's previous movie Total Recall. Kind of a small, like little kick ass or of a part. Yeah. Give her a role like this is I mean, and what she does with it. Wow. Obviously a lot has been made about specific scenes in the movie. This is also one where the director's cut goes a lot harder than the theatrical cut. If for some sex scenes, yes, for some problematic sex scenes, most would argue. But mostly the murder. In the beginning, it's so much more gruesome. You're like, Holy shit, it's crazy. So do you recommend the movie? Recommend the director's cut? Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just I mean, just go for it. Like. Yeah, go. Yeah. This is, we've talked about Michael Douglas a lot in this episode. This is him, like, opposite of Fatal Attraction, where he's, like, kind of a little meat guy here. He's just. He's a cop who's kind of, like, down and out, making a lot of bad decisions. Oh, God, he's just great in it. I did forget to mention 1987. He was in Fatal Attraction, you know, the biggest movie the year. He also won Best actor that year for Wall Street. I should have mentioned then put it in context. Huge year, huge year for Michael Douglas 1987. Yeah, I just forgot to bring that up. Yeah. Basic instinct probably, you know, one, two three. These ones are not pretty easy to spoil because they're so popular, so well known as erotic thrillers. And I would love your Basic Instinct thoughts. It's it's the most erotic and arguably the most thrilling of every movie I've talked about today, at least in my opinion. I love this film. It's so good. I would be down to watch it because I'm on a I'm on a bit of a Michael Douglas kick right now. Michael Douglas rocks. I got to see, this this has nothing to do with anything. But ever since we did our David Fincher episode and I rewatched the game, I love him in that film. I loved him so, and I can't stop thinking about him in that movie. In the first time I saw the movie, I didn't like it. Yep. And then the second time was like, oh, I like this a lot more. And, I can't stop think about Michael Douglas. So then when we were, I was watching Fatal Attraction. I was like, I fucking love watching this guy in the game. He plays that smarmy, rich asshole so well, one of my favorite little things, he doesn't. It. Maybe I mentioned this in the Fincher. It's so small, but when he's in that nice restaurant meeting up with Sean Penn for the first time, the waitress comes by and she asks him, you know, is everything okay? And then she goes to leave and he he's looking at his papers that, you know, important work papers. And he motions but doesn't look, but motions to his glass and goes, that was iced tea. And it's so, like dismissive and fucking rude. I, I just, I love Michael Douglas. I mean, he makes me I cannot watch traffic in the end of traffic without weeping because of his. The last line of that movie is so immense, intensely moving to me. I've always loved him and he. Yeah, like I said, A-list stars were coming on to do these erotic thriller movies. He knew exactly. He knew what his bag was, and he knew that his lane and what he did with erotic thrillers was really singular. And there's another big one that I'm going to mention in my next category, which is kind of beside erotic thrillers, ones I like a lot. That just didn't make the top ten lists. He's in a very, very popular one as well. Roger Ebert, Basic Instinct I, I just had no idea. God, when I opened this review, I thought I was going to say four stars, two stars. This is not a movie where the outcome depends upon the personality or behavior of the characters. It's just a wind up machine to jerk us around. Wow, Roger's in a bad mood. That review when he filed that? Man, I don't know. It's a fun movie, man. Jesus, a fun one filed that one. That's it. Those are our top ten. Let me go through them again. Number ten, wild things. Number nine. Single white female. Number eight Jade the director's cut. Number seven. Masquerade. Number six. Bound five. Body double for the Last Seduction three. Body heat two. Fatal attraction one. Basic instinct I really tried hard to not do. I didn't want, two movies on my list by the same director. I should, because some of them, I mean, Adrian line. Like I said, nine and a half weeks. But yes, he also did deep water. He hadn't made a film since unfaithful, which can. I love that movie? I love Indecent Proposal. I love that film. It's just not an erotic thriller. It's like a domestic drama with. I mean, do you know, have you seen that movie indecent? I mean, I've seen unfaithful. I haven't seen Indecent Proposal. do you know what it's about? Can I tell you real quick? Yeah, yeah. All right. Woody Harrelson and Demi Moore are like, kind of a down on the. They just don't have a lot of money. Very happily married. The sex is on fire. Everything is going well, but they need money. So like, what if we go to Atlantic City? Is it Atlantic City or is it Las Vegas? I can't and go to one of those. And they're gambling roulette in the first night. Like things go well and then things, as you might expect, do not go well. And they lose most everything. But at the same time, all this has been going on. Demi Moore, who's very attractive, is called the eyes of a rich billionaire, played by none other than Robert Redford. And after he learns that they have lost all of their money, he invites them to his like fancy pool hall for like a half hour in the movie. Now to Demi Moore and Woody Harrelson, and sets point Blake, I will give you $1 million to sleep with your wife. That's it.$1 million one night with your wife. Everything's agreed upon. There can be contracts made. There's no, you know, no bad stuff going on. No, like rough stuff. That's it. And that's the set up for the movie. I love that movie, but it's not an erotic thriller. There's no there's no like, it's just not. It's a really good, like domestic drama that is erotic. I love that film. I'd love it. That's probably my favorite Adrian line, so I'm not even kidding. I love Indecent Proposal. Oh man. Fantastic. All right. Beside erotic thrillers that barely missed the cut Crimes of Passion I already mentioned, directed by Ken Russell's crazy movie where Anthony Perkins that is, that movie is not really affiliated with psycho at all. But I promise, Crimes of Passion is a better sequel to psycho than psycho two. Trust me. Go watch it. Jagged edge I mentioned the Big Easy, Ellen Barkin angel heart. Yeah, yeah. It's not like really for me, it gets it's kind of gross. I don't know, Black Widow, which I mentioned. The bedroom window directed by Curtis Hanson in 1987. Oh, Sea of Love with Al Pacino. Bad influence, in which Rob Lowe meets a really meek young James Spader and James Spader and helps James Spader get out of his shell. Think like crazy, stupid love. But then Rob Lowe's fucking evil. So, like, if Ryan Gosling was evil and crazy stupid love, love, love love bad influence. Another Curtis Hanson movie. Love it before. Before Curtis Hanson won an Oscar for L.A. confidential, he did things like The Bedroom Window, Bad Influence, The Hand That Rocks the Cradle, great stuff. The Adjuster with Elias Curtis, love that film. Final Analysis Richard Gere and Kim Basinger whispers in the dark with the great Annabella Sciorra, who I have not mentioned yet in this episode. I love that actress. She was a staple of the 90s, had a great supporting turn in The Sopranos, was, her career was ruined because of Harvey Weinstein, so fuck that guy. I love her really good in that movie. Love Crimes with Sean Young Sean Young, no stranger to the erotic thriller genre. Good movie, creepy movie. Dream lover. Liked a lot. Also a James Spader. Guilty as sin with Rebecca Moore and, Johnson, the other Michael Douglas Banger. Disclosure 1994. Demi Moore, directed by Barry Levinson Oscar winning Oscar winner Barry Levinson. Fun movie. when we're talking about convenient endings, that, to me has the ultimate convenient ending. And, there is one sexy scene, but I wouldn't consider it an overtly erotic movie. But there's one scene where you're like, Jesus Christ, Demi and Michael. Well, I just finished Demi Moore's, memoir. I really, really enjoyed it. I really, really, Yeah, granted, we're getting everything from one side, but like, yeah, it was, I don't know, it was really good. Like all of her daughters. Stop talking to her. just for family stuff. Like when it. When it was her 50th birthday. What you did, you just said it's really, really good. Her daughters stop talking to her. I have a boy. I mean, I've got a point. She talked about it with so much honesty. And Alex, she didn't know what was happening. Then she had to look inside herself and identify her own behavior. And now everyone's good. And, you know, Bruce is of course, not doing well. And she's very kind about him. I don't know, I liked it. Whatever. Leave me alone. China moon with Ed Harris in 1994. All good ones. They barely missed the cut. And then there's some big ones which I. We have two more categories, the horny and boring category. Here we have wild orchid with Mickey Rourke, sliver Body of Evidence with Madonna and Willem Dafoe. Where yeah, there's wax, there's glass. There's just a lot. That one Color of Night with Bruce Willis. Wow. Original sin Angelina Jolie. Yeah, killing me softly with Heather Graham. Just way too horny to the point where it's boring for me. And then we did have some post peak era erotic thrillers that didn't make my cut. We have things like in The Cut, the Jane Campion movie with Meg Ryan. Yeah, I actually don't think is a good movie, but it is a thriller. Oh, you've seen it like it, I see. Yeah, I, I saw it in 2003 and I went, oh, give it another chance. I rewatched for this and I that is not a good movie, but it, it fits in the genre. So I wanted to mention it. Yeah it does lust caution more of like a political thriller, but still, stranger by the Lake is a foreign film that is an erotic thriller for gay men, essentially The Handmaiden. Well, we talked about that one on the pod. Yeah, a bit. Yeah. Benedetta is a Verhoeven movie erotic thriller with nuns that I saw a few years ago. And then, of course, Deep Water, which we gave high regards to on the what do you watching podcast. Quite high, quite high. And folks that's it. We're done. That's what erotic thrillers. I'm going to walk away and take a no. I hope everyone had fun. This was yeah, this was supposed to be a fun episode. Just, you know, we have been circling it, and I just thought it would be funny and fun. And I do stand behind all those movies. They all fit within a genre. But things like bound, the last Seduction, these are like, really, really good movies. Fatal attraction is a really, really good movie. Body heat, Body double. These are really well-made movies. Yeah, some of the other ones. Wild things. Jade. Yes. Very silly. Yes, yes. Masquerade is awesome. Yes, yes. Yeah. I just think this has been awesome. Like, this is just, It was not what I expected at all when we finally settled on, like, all right, we're doing this. We're doing the erotic thriller episode. I was like, all right, man, whatever you want to do. But this has been like, honestly, like, I, I've, I'm fascinated by the history of just our country and movies because we have this genre. It's like it's something I never looked at it this way before. And they are fun. They are fun. Like, I mean, they can be good and they can be really campy, but that's the whole entire point. I'm still trying to think of like what people like today, because. There are like genres where, like, I keep thinking of true crime in some ways because like, yeah, there is like a fascination behind the taboo dealings of things. I think that fits because the all these movies have like murders, a lot of them. And like, yeah, I'm so maybe that kind of took over and again, I'm not I'm not trying to bring this up again. But it is widely understood that there was not a mass cultural, need for sex scenes in movies or these thrillers anymore when everyone had pornography available on their phones, like that's. And I think there's some validity to that. Yeah, it makes sense. So it was fun to talk about a genre that is essentially because it came in when we can track the whole arc of it, and now we have outliers like Deepwater, which was marketed on the fact that it was an erotic thriller. Yeah. And that was the first of its kind in like two decades, even, Jacob Elordi talked about that, and he was sort of like, because someone is asking him, like, why he wanted to do the movie. And he goes, because I just want to make this genre. Yeah. Like, this is yeah, that doesn't exist. Like, I might not get an opportunity to be this again. So to cause he's got a small part. Right. And, but he is even thrilled to be in that genre. Have to watch that movie again, I love that. Yes. If you do a commentary. Oh, yeah. commentary on Deepwater. What are you watching? If you spoil it before, that's okay. But just remind us what it was. The postman always rings twice. and it fits in so many ways because of the, the film noir genre. And then what it becomes in the remake. Honestly, not the biggest fan of the remake. I'm not either to be I, I had not seen that since I was younger and watch it for this. And I was like, this movie is not 2.5 hours, but you are stretching my patience. This thing is going. It's going on. And if you're a fan of the original like we are, yeah, it can make watching the remake a bit tedious. Yes. So I highly recommend the original. it does suffer from the, time period of the ending having to go with certain kind of way that, it would be very interesting if it could not go that way. Right. But, outside of that, I think that's one of my all time favorite film noir. If not, no Double Indemnity has got to be number one. But I think Postman Always Rings Twice is a solid number two. It's so great. Yeah. Lana Turner just, she's so good. It I love that. Yeah, I rewatch that and remake. I did that a few times for this episode. I got. I had a few people, my friend Mark, who's we've been online friends, movie friends for a while. I think you've talked about him on the pilot a few weeks ago. He commented on Letter Box. He's like, I see what you're doing. The erotic thriller parts coming. Like, yes it is. I see what you're doing. My what do you recommendation? You know, we talked about a lot of movies today and I'm like this, this is a really coveted space, coveted position because I don't know what to put here. And I found one, right? I was like, I want to talk about one right in the park area. So I found a movie in 1993 as a perfect title called Fatal Instinct, and it's a movie that I'd seen the poster of. So many times, and this is a hilarious parody of erotic thrillers directed like none other than Carl Reiner. Like a legit, oh wow, old school comedian. He directed The Jerk. He was also in all of the Ocean's movies. He is Rob Reiner's father. All that stuff I it's everything you want. Like, occasionally there's, the music is really funny because another huge thing of these movies is heavy saxophone. A lot of jazz. and in this you'll see a guy like, on screen playing the music like Birdman. I actually think this is where any Reto got the idea from. now it's it's so ridiculous. So stupid. Found it on to be reminiscent is Ned Ravine. Hint, hint like Ned Racine, Sherilyn Flynn from Twin Peaks, Sean Young. It was so fun to see Sean Young after seeing her in things like No Way Out, her Love crimes, and now she is totally just doing a parody sense. I tell it doing it really, really well. James Remar is in it. Love, James Remar John Witherspoon oh yeah, and then the the foil, the fall guy is none other than who. That's right folks, it's Christmas. Oh my God it is. Hello hello. Wow. Moron. Good for Happy Gilmore. Oh my God. God damn it, Homer! God damn it! Jesus Christ, just stand on my way. Your pay. Listen to what I say. I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast. God, the perfect storm. I want you to be able to hear it. Chris Mack is Frank Guilbeault the foil? I don't know, just the good. It was so funny. And everyone's. Oh my God, I loved it. Just, you know, like, like a naked gun type thing or like, Yeah. Mafia. That one. It's in that vein. It's hilarious. That is. Speaking of, this is a complete nothing to do with anything, but that's a genre that doesn't exist anymore either in the world, apparently. No. I mean, like just that old scary movie. Yeah, yeah, like Top Gun. Or not, top gun. Hot, hot, hot shots. It really does. Top secret. There was only a few of them who made it. Another gone. I mean, there's like, no one replace him. No. Replace the Abrams brothers known to replace these guys with really quick. I watched Top Secret for the first time with Dan. Like, like not too long ago. I absolutely loved it. I was having the time of my life watching that movie. It's so funny. Val Kilmer. Yeah, he. Yeah, he told me you guys are watching it. I have not seen it in ages. That's one that I could rewatch because I saw it like as a kid. Some of those. Yeah. I mean, Fatal Instinct, I think when I was like, kind of like a pissy film snob and I was like a teenager in my early 20s, like, hey, I don't want to watch parody, but it was after watching like 50 erotic thrillers. It was a lot of fun to watch one just completely take the piss out of it. Roger Ebert, one and a half stars. Not a fan. Didn't even close. I did pull, I did pull a quote from it, but, so that's why. What are you watching? Something that's fun. I'm going to do two others really quick because I don't know what the hell us. I'm going to talk about it. For the first time in my life, we did episode 100, whole episode on my favorite film of all time, Taxi Driver, and I forgot what may be the biggest personal fact of mine about that movie, which is that I have never seen it in the theater. That's fact one. In fact, two is that I have tried three times at three independent movie theaters in three different cities, and something went wrong every time. The last time was in 2016 on your birthday, you weren't there. We were going to meet up with you the next day, but Dan and I were there, the Egyptian, Los Angeles. The sound didn't work. They stopped the movie and the sound does it work? And someone announces, oh, we're going to try to get the sound to work, but we're going to play the movie. So if you and I'm like, I can't do this, now's the third time. So April 9th was apparently Taxi Driver Day. I don't know, I just I found it I don't know why, but I typed it in to Fandango. I was like talking with Dan about it because he was obsessed that I never seen it. Theater. And there it was. So I went to see it and nothing broke. Everything worked. Got to see it. The E Street Theater in Washington, DC, my favorite movie theater that I talk about a lot on this part. It was amazing. So that's it. It was so much fun. So much fun. You see it with your dad? No, no, that that didn't work out. Yeah. That was supposed to maybe have him, but no, that didn't work out. yeah. It was just it's cool to be in there. It was sold out, you know, small theater, but, like, clearly based on the reaction, some people had not seen it, but some people were, like, gasping at the shoot out the end. But, you know, seen the movie in the triple digits. And it was just so great to see it. Also. Also, I have never seen an Ingmar Bergman film in the movie theater. Never. I, I, I've always wanted to and I never, ever had one, I did. I saw that at an Alamo. Not the one near me, not in one of the three. One's near me. I did drive 60 miles to see Autumn Sonata projected, and my God, was it. It was just beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful. And because it was in an Alamo, it was. It was kind of sold out. But this woman showed up. She was, probably like in her 60s, and she, like, kind of crawled under the, you know, where you eat your food on, like, get to her seat. And as she's climbing up, because this was part of the Alamo Film Club, and as she's kind of getting into her seat, she looks me and she's like, so what's the slick about? And I went, whoa, you've never seen it and haven't even heard of it. And she goes, no, I just come to every film club every Wednesday regardless. And I don't, I don't know what they're about. And I was like, okay, well, you're in for it. It's I was like, it's a mother daughter, mother daughter drama, but it does not pull punches. It does not mess around. She's like, all right. So when it was done, she. Because the movie's only 90 minutes. So I mean it goes by. And when it was done she looked at me and she was she was shake and she was rattled. She liked it a lot. She said it was beautiful and she was just sitting in her seat going, I have that relationship with one of my children. One of my children is not spoken to me in 15 years. And she and she said she didn't even know. She couldn't even remember why she was. She said it was certainly nothing as intense as what's depicted in Autumn Sonata. She has a great relationship with her other two kids, but she hasn't talked to 1 or 2 like her daughter in 15 years. And I mean, you know, she told me your name and we we talked and like, had a nice conversation about Bergman, about the movie and that'll stay with me because I wonder if what if Autumn Sonata motivated her to reach out? Wow. Yeah. It was it was interesting. And I mean, so great to see a Bergman in the theater and great to know that Bergman cinema is still provoking intense, meaningful discussion with complete strangers all these years later. So I fucking love movies. And thank you, Alamo Drafthouse. It's. I just, they keep doing it, man. They keep doing it. I love I love them. Oh, that's that's a great story I hope, I hope, I hope that that happened. Yeah. I mean, you know, who knows. You know, because I'll never know in my world it did. I'm just going to make my own reality for that. I that's that's the place like Home Alone and Baby Cyclone. Yeah, yeah. Women I'm gonna go back to that theater and see her and they're going to. The daughter will be with her. She'll be like, you know what? Because of because of you and this film, we're we reconcile. I took it too far. You're right. Let's just. They they have reconciled. That's what all said. That's what we'll say. What a nice, pleasant way to end the erotic thriller podcast. Yeah. Thank you very much for doing this, for being a good sport and for letting me cook and for taking me up. Oh, this was a lot of fun. I want to know everyone's favorite erotic thriller. I also want to know if you're watching some of these movies, because my crazy ass is recommending them, and you're watching them for the first time. be careful who you watch them with. That's all I'll say. That's all I'll say. Yeah, that's a John Klein reference right there. It's, showing his wife shame. Jesus Christ, love all of our friends. that was great. Please let us know what you think on Twitter Instagram, Letterboxd at y w underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. You. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex withrow.com Nicholas Dose Dotcom is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at WAC underscore podcast. Next time we're going to keep it cooking by diving deep into one of our favorite films of the century so far, Derek and Francis Blue Valentine. Oh my. Stay tuned here. At. Noon.