Alex and Nick dive deep into Derek Cianfrance’s “Blue Valentine.” The guys discuss the film’s lengthy development, its use of heavy improvisation, juxtaposing two narratives, the respective careers of Cianfrance, Ryan Gosling, and Michelle Williams, the great John Doman, why the MPA is dumb, and much more.
Follow @WAYW_Podcast on Twitter and Instagram and Letterboxd.
Watch Alex's films at http://alexwithrow.com/
Watch Nick's films at https://www.nicholasdostal.com/
Send us mailbag questions at whatareyouwatchingpodcast@gmail.com
Alex and Nick dive deep into Derek Cianfrance’s “Blue Valentine.” The guys discuss the film’s lengthy development, its use of heavy improvisation, juxtaposing two narratives, the respective careers of Cianfrance, Ryan Gosling, and Michelle Williams, the great John Doman, why the MPA is dumb, and much more.
Follow @WAYW_Podcast on Twitter and Instagram and Letterboxd.
Watch Alex's films at http://alexwithrow.com/
Watch Nick's films at https://www.nicholasdostal.com/
Send us mailbag questions at whatareyouwatchingpodcast@gmail.com
Fruit. Like she just seems different. I don't know, but I'll just. I know I just got a feeling about it. You know what? The song comes on. You just got to dance. Oh. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Withrow, and I'm joined by my best man, Nick coastal. How are you doing there, Bobby? Ontario. Oh. Bobby, Ontario. What a name. What? What a name. And I hate that guy. Oh, he's such a prick. it's, I mean, Bobby Ontario. And, you know, it just sounds like a name. Like it sounds like that name. Like that guy. Oh, you know, I saw the supermarket. Bobby Ontario. Oh, that piece of shit. That piece of shit. Exactly. It's like a perfect name for him. what he needs to convey. How you feeling? Oh, man, am I excited to be here. Hell, yeah. this is a big. So, what are you watching? This is. What are you watching? Canada. Right here, baby. Blue valentine. Yes, it's lighthearted fare. Oh, my God, this is, I've, I wanted to do this movie for a long time. I am such, such a Blue Valentine fan. I think I've seen this movie over ten times. Oh, that's a lot for you. That's big. That's a lot. Yeah, that's a big one. That's a big number. That's. I mean, that's probably like about as many as I've seen it, honestly. So that's. Yeah, that's that's good. That's awesome. I mean yes. You actually ages ago I think on mic you pitched doing this potentially as a commentary about. Yeah. Oh go make it a little strange and there but here we are doing a deep dive episode on it. We love Blue Valentine. This got a lot of mention in episode two of What Are You Watching our favorite films of the 2010 decade. I believe this was my number four. That sounds about right. It was right up around there, but it's whatever the hell the number is. It's definitely in my top five. That decade, we gave it extensive love on our favorite movie, arguments. Episode 55. How could we not? How could we not? This is one of my favorite, modern romance films, even though it goes where it goes. I think it is so honest. Yeah. So poignant. I knew this in 2010. I think a lot of other people did. And unlike like the last deep dive movie we did was sleepers. And I even said, like, not a lot of people have seen that loud. It's never streaming. This actually is a movie that people have seen despite how small it was. Like, I think this movie is still pretty beloved on line on Twitter. I see I see a lot of people talking about Blue Valentine, and the 14 years have been very kind to this movie, I think, which is crazy because I've never met another person outside of you that actually likes this movie. Really? it's a hard film to be like, I like that movie. But when I lived in L.A., I was making a music video and I met two women who were in the music video. This was their favorite movie, like, independently of each other. And I went, oh, wow, blue Valentine is your favorite movie? They're like, yeah, that movie, fuck it. And I'm like, why is that one? That's what it it's like. It cuts so deep and I'm like, oh, okay, okay. But yes, it is a it is a hard movie to be like, I love that movie. I yeah, it's not Home Alone. It's a comfort movie for me. Oh me too. It's here. He asked me to. Come on, come on. It's fucking great. I love this movie. I love the way it's shot. I love the way it's assembled. It's. Yeah, it's a comfort movie. Not all comfort movies have to be like, you know, warm blankets. We've talked about our warm blankets that they can be, they can have a somewhat disturbing look on the surface, but, you know, you dig down, there's some warmth to them. Yeah. There's warmth. I am, I am, I'm I'm red hot, I'm blue Valentine. I'm so warm. It's no Manchester by the sea. But man, it is. it is as comforting to me as they get. When did you first see this? Was it 2010? I saw it in theaters yesterday. So did I, and when I saw it in theaters, I did not find it comforting. No, I did not know it was. It was a it was a when you walk out of the theater, it was 4K. I don't know how to feel about what I just put myself through. So I'm going to process it. I just remember just being absolutely floored and cut to the bone with the the heaviness in the weight of this relationship. And then it wasn't until the second time, like I remember the movie never left my head and I was like, I need to see this again. Okay. Now that that the emotional impact has happened, I need to like sit with this movie in its moments. And I didn't know Derek seeing friends. I so I did not really understand that this is going to become one of my guys. Because because yeah the first time I saw I was young too, I would just moved to LA, I was only like a year out here, went through a breakup so is very close to the bone. I just, I just remember thinking this movie was just such a punch in the face. But then the second time I saw it, I was like, wow, there's so much going on here that I don't think I picked up on the first time. Like these moments and the sweetness of them and then the the juxtaposed. Hi. Yeah. Your favorite word. We're going to be using that a lot today that this movie could be called juxtaposition. Yeah. The the title. That's so funny. The the hard hitting moments didn't become so impactful anymore as much as they just became real. And it was more of a thing. It's like watching the actors make the choices, watching them go. They're watching the truth kind of come out. So they weren't as hard to watch as the first time, as much as they were just impressive, impressive feats of capturing real human moment and and, making that what this movie is. I just love every second of this movie because I love how Derek Cianfrance thinks. I love how he works. I love how he's just trying to capture as much truth as he possibly can in its worst and in its best. And that's what this movie is. That's exactly all this movie is. It's a really good way to put it. This, this movie, you know, one half of it does convey one of the nicest, sweetest, most tender relationships I've ever seen on screen. It does. And then the other half of that is one of the use all the polar opposite adjectives. Yeah, yeah. I mean, just one of the worst one of the you've seen it completely break down and word. Yeah. That's what we're juxtaposing against his their best moments with their absolute worst. We I mean we see them in the end. The only time the movie cross cuts, it's cross-cutting their marriage and, perhaps their breakup. This is when they're, you know, this is they're breaking up. It's like it's oh, they're done. They're so done. Yeah. They're they're they're talking decent. I can't imagine anyone watching this movie and be like, now they're cold tomorrow. Like they're fucking. It's it's a shame. But they are done. He has a great line though. That is a fucking good line. You made me a promise. For better or worse, this is me at my worst. That is like. I mean, I was going to mention this like an hour and a half from now. That is a great line. But it's also like it, it's so well written and it is kind of true. Like you gotta, you know, you got to give me one last chance. But it's also like, buddy, are we to believe this is the second, third, fourth, 18th chance? She has given you? There's even the fucking dad, the hardass dad who's now in oxygen. It's like, leave her alone, Dean. Even he knows that Dean's a handful. Like this is. This ain't your, Maybe this is your worst, but it sounds like you've been here for ages. Ages? Yeah. And. And not only that, but this time across two, I, I remember I go, bro, that's so manipulative. Oh, my God, it's like gaslighting. Manipulating. I'm saying it is. It's a good like it's great. Like a lot of this movie was improvised. So is it his or was it written? It's a great line but oh it's like textbook manipulation. Yeah. It and but it also is. He's probably not even like his character. Probably not even thinking about that. He's probably actually thinking about the sincerity of that because like he says in a few lines prior, like, I'm just fighting for my family. I'm just fighting like, you know, and that's what that is like, hey, you said this and it's gutting. It's absolutely gutting for all of those reasons, whether it's gutting because it comes off so manipulative or if it's gutting because this is just how he really feels like, because he is a romantic. I know we've just jumped right to the end. This is crazy. No. That's okay. We I mean, we're gonna we're going to we always I like the intro to go wherever we want and that's like what we do. And then I'll ground us back with like some of the players involved. And then we'll get into like the meat of the movie. But no, I like kind of going everywhere. I mean, I didn't, I did I failed to mention this on the Sleepers Pod, but everyone should know when we're dedicating an episode to just one movie, it's it's free reign from the beginning. We can go kind of anywhere and talk about all the, you know, plot devices of it. And no one seems to mind, which I'm very thankful for because I've few people listen to this and whose opinions I trust. And I've asked them and they think we're really good about spoilers. So that's, you know, spoilers here. Oh, it's move out. I mean, come on, it's Blue Valentine. We. Oh yeah. Look what I mean. It doesn't go a deal like Show Shut. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But no, I saw this the weekend it came out in DC, E Street cinemas, great theater. And I was. Yeah, it wasn't like comforting. I didn't I didn't know what to expect. No, none of us had a relationship with Eric C in France. Like. No, we didn't know who this guy was. This movie had been in the press a lot though. I'm going to get to that in a bit. But it it hit the festival circuit. It had a tough time with the MPAA. It was being distributed by Harvey Weinstein, who is no stranger to getting his movies out there and getting his movies in the press. So I had heard about it and it was like, oh man, what is this thing going to be? And this was like 2010 was a perfect time for the $1 million movie that could. I'm not saying this movie went on to be nominated for and win all the Oscars, but for a $1 million movie, this movie did well. It made 16 million back. It played like an indie circuit. But again, the 14 years since have done nothing but good for it. It's just it's something that gets talked about more. I feel like younger people discover it and they're like, wow. But I mean, yeah, the first time I saw it, I just remember leaving the theater going, can it get that bad? Is that as bad as it can get? Like, is, is that my future? Could that potentially happen to me that I can just, like, meet someone, fall this head over heels in love? And then six years later, it's like that, like, is this fuck? Like it just felt so real. It felt like it could happen because of the just life that life occurs. But I love that it captured all that. And it was so raw and so honest and exactly what I was looking for. And then, you know, a year later, I got shamed. So it was a real one, two punch for me of like, boom, boom, we are. These are movie. These movies are not afraid to go here. We're going there, we're putting it all out there. And yeah, I'm that's why Blue Valentine. It's meant so much to me since I first saw it. Oh, man, I, I, I just have this crazy reaction to this movie every time I see it, where I feel for the both characters differently than I've done previous. Like in like the first few watches I remember, I was like, oh, I'm completely on his side. Then I'd be completely on her side. The next viewing. Then there'd be times where I would feel differently about them than even before. And even like my this watch for this episode, I'm feeling a whole different way about them. I think that's just the ultimate testament to like, this movie is like there's it's going to grow with you if you if you, if you keep watching it as much as I do. Damn right it's grown on me. It I mean, it really has. We're going to even before we get into the movie, we're going to talk about where the main people involved were at as we lead up to 2010. But Blue Valentine did not start in 2010. No. Derek Cianfrance wrote this script in the late 90s, early 2000, and then he spent a decade making documentaries, making connections in the industry, all in an effort to fund Blue Valentine. He made this movie his entire life, and it shows. There is so much passion in every frame of this movie. After this, he went on to write and direct The Place Beyond the Pines, which we covered in episode 13, a movie we both love. He directed The Light Between the Oceans, which we saw in the theater together. Still the only sort of still the only time I've seen that movie. I wanted to rewatch it, but I've only seen that once. Nick. Same here, same here. Yeah. Then of course, something we've given a lot of play to on this podcast. His HBO mini series I Know This Much is True, starring a double Mark Ruffalo. The rough times to that is, that's a hell of a mini series. And if I had to choose between all that work, I love that mini series. I love Pines, but Blue Valentine is still my favorite thing that Derek and Francis done. I adore this movie and I adore this work. I it's so hard for me to pick. I get fired, I know, I know, and I'm not asking you to. Yeah I'm not. And you sound like you're asking me so good. Oh, I'm not asking you. Pines. It's like, that's such a great. It's exactly what I want from sophomore feature and this and Blue Valentine, I mean, technically was not even the very first movie. Derek Cianfrance made it because he has, like, a small, indie called Brother Tide from 1998 that no one scene is he's documentaries, but the first like kind of mainstream feature is Blue Valentine. But yeah, it's it. I mean, what he graduated to with Pines, a bigger story, bigger run time were crossing generations now it felt like a very like a good level up. I'm like, all right, I get it. And Pines is a bigger movie. I still there's something I don't know. I love that movie. Don't get me wrong. Love it, love it and love it. Michelle Williams, circa 2010. She's in Dawson's Creek, of course. Halloween H2O what I love Dawson's Creek I wasn't I was a creek head for sure. Was she the more promiscuous one? Right. She was. Yes. Yeah, yeah. That's right, I remember that. I like this show too. And she dies in the last few days. So. Yeah. They pulled the cancer card. Yeah. Oh, man. Yup. Cancer card. The cancer card. I just don't don't. James Vanderbeek and Katie Holmes, they finally hook up. That's like what happens is that in the end, the last episode or. Yeah, it's all the last episode, but I don't I don't, you know, this is so it's betraying. I don't know if they end up together. I don't know, I don't think Dawson do. I don't think they did. But I don't think she was with Pacey either. So they they just iced out Michelle Williams. And that's fucking rude, man. Yeah, but joke's on them because she had the best career after that. That is what's funny. Like she went on to have the best career of all the that's what I love. She's in Dick, which is hilarious. She gets nominated. She is. I love that movie. I didn't make the title. What do you what do you do? It's just, oh, it's a dick. She's a dick. So it's called I Did Make It Up. She gets nominated for an Oscar for Brokeback Mountain. She's in. I'm Not there. Schenectady, New York, Wendy and Lucy. And then she's at Blue Valentine, which she also produced. But she had been attached to Blue Valentine since 2002. That's when she signs on with Derek. Scene Francis to do this, they don't know when they're going to be able to do it, but she is attached for eight years. I love Michelle Williams, love her to death. I think Blue Valentine is her best performance. And again, not asking you to rank, but I do. I like I rewatched it twice for this episode because I wanted to watch it with seeing Francis commentary and then just regular, and I was like, this thing is, it's so disturbing. I mean, when she's like, you know, in the end, like, I have no love for you. I know love. You're like, oh, my God, I just totally believe her. You can't believe you're watching a husband and wife fight there. It's so disturbing. It's me. Oh, God. It's palpable. yeah, I have to. I I'll have to think about it. I'll think about it. I it probably would go to this. Yes. Think about think about it. I know, just think about it. It's a tough it's great Halloween H2O. math the goose, Ryan Gosling. He comes on to the project in 2006, so he's attached for a while as well. Before Blue Valentine. He's he's working his way up. He's becoming red hot. You know, he's like the 10th lead. And remember the Titans he's a total monster in The Believer. And he's in Murder by Numbers The Notebook. He's breaking through. He's nominated for an Oscar for Half Nelson. He's Lars in The Real Girl. And he takes three years off when he is red hot in Hollywood and returns with this tiny movie, Blue Valentine. And, well, do I love Ryan Gosling. Like him a lot? I think Blue Valentine is his best performance. It's a trifecta, folks. I Alex, I don't know if you know this about me or not. Well know I am a Ryan Gosling fan. You are a Ryan Gosling fan. The goose is on the loose. This is not my favorite Ryan Gosling performance. What is half Nelson? Half Nelson? It's a it's close. It's close. He's he's fucking remarkable in that movie. It's it's close but it's. Yeah I mean just I don't know man. Dean is like a force of nature. I'd forgotten how good he is in this movie I really had, which seems silly, but like when he wakes up in the future room and just starts guzzling. Oh, right away, I was like, wow, I didn't you remember that? I didn't remember that. That's an a one thing I've never given him credit for in this movie is how well he plays drunk. Yeah, he plays drunk. So the slurring like he it's never over the top. He does it so well. The voice cracking. There's like a certain glazed look there, but not too laser. Yeah. Yep. And you know, the, the the cool thing is, is that, you know, when we're introduced to his character, he's got this specifically, like, you know, because he's got a full head of hair, but he shaved it in a way to make it look like he's receding. He's losing his hair. He's just kind of like this loser of a guy is just balding. Yeah, but he carries himself in such a way where he does look like he's got, like this, this belly, this, this loser guy. It's so believable for a guy who, you know, is classified as one of Hollywood's, like, sexiest men. And yet without doing much with it, just a haircut just completely is lives in this this characterization. And it's so believable. I never once don't believe that this guy is this drunken kind of loser. Yeah, still loves his family, loves everything, you know, but he's just like, it's just he's kind of just surrendered to the settling of everything. When we do see him back to the younger days, it is like it's a different person. It's jarring. It's jarring. It's not as jarring for Michelle Williams. No, it's not because but he's you're like, wow, we've seen life grab hold of you. Probably yes, because of self-imposed destruction, too much smoking, too much drinking, whatever. And and it's not like we're seeing him in a fat suit or that he's put on a giant thing of makeup, like, yeah, he did his hair different, but it's the way he carries himself. It's like he's a shell of, like, who we used to be. And, it's really great work to see that he in the as the younger self. He smokes cigarets, but not like the way that he does it as contemporary. Dean is just so, like scuzzy and gross. He's always holding his daughter and he's got a cigaret dangling out of his mouth. And he's just like, he's always doing that. He's always like drinking beer. Even the first time we see him, he is passed out. Maybe not passed out, but he's asleep in the lazy boy in the living room. He's not in bed. And you know, he's still got like the paint, clothes on and all that stuff. And he is wearing some external things. You can tell the time, the time change. Hers are all internal. Her. She's just becoming this, like broken, broken down person who can't even I mean, oh, God. Yeah, we'll get to it. I want to talk. Before we get into the movie, I want to talk about the development of it because this is. Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm sure you have. Yeah. So I'm sure, you know, a little bit. But how this movie came to be is something it's actually something of like a miracle. And it proves that if you really want to break through with an indie movie in Hollywood, you may have to put literal years of free labor on the line to keep it afloat, because you may have to put years into keeping Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling attached years into refining the script, years into finding financing. Like I said, Williams committed to the movie in 2002, Gosling in 2006. They began filming in May 2009, but during all that time seeing Frances trying to secure $1 million for funding and he finally does it. They filmed the scenes of Cindy and Dean meeting first when they were younger. They filmed that all on super 16mm film you can tell I love Oh yeah, love it. And then Gosling and Williams and the little girl who plays their daughter, they all moved into that house that they lived in and moved in there for a month, and they lived there as a family. They bought groceries based on their characters salary. So their salary of like a nurse in a small town and the salary of a house painter, they made dinners, they got into forced arguments, and one month later they filmed all of those contemporary scenes using digital red cameras. And see, in France, I mean, especially listen to that commentary. This guy is a bit of a method director. He's a bit of a madman. I'm here for it. I respect him, but he actually wanted he wanted six years to pass, like in real life. He wanted to film the young Gosling at Williams, and they'd wait six years to film the older ones. The producers were like, no, no, no, we're just we'll give you a month, which is actually like a lot for a $1 million movie. Yeah. And for for much of the movie, they were encouraged. Gosling and Williams were encouraged to improvise their own dialog. Cianfrance would often give them conflicting direction. That is how Ryan Gosling found himself damn near hanging over the side of the Manhattan Bridge, which we'll talk about when we get there. But then this movie premiers. It premieres at Sundance in January 2010. It has. That's an insanely short post-production time. They filmed it. I mean, that's crazy. It does. And then it does. The festival trifecta. It hits Sundance Con Tiff, The Weinstein Company picks it up and distributes it. Of course, a few months before the movie was released in theaters, it is slapped with an NC 17 rating by the MPAA for a scene depicting cunnilingus. Ryan Gosling makes a very public statement, citing the MPAA sexism and misogyny, saying that he has seen any number of scenes of this being performed on men in those movies. R rated R Harvey Weinstein appeals the ruling. The movie is rated R in its original form. By the time the film is finally released, we had essentially been hearing about it for a year. This is what I was talking about. We heard about it premiering at the festivals. We heard about this ratings business, and I remember sitting there and being like, what the hell is this movie going to be like? I'm I'm a little scared. I can't not talking sexually. I'm talking like, yeah, where the hell is this thing going to go? And then I just being like, wowed. And by the time we arrived at that doctor's office fight, I mean, my jaw was just dropped. It's still like one of the tensest scenes I've ever seen. It's so hard. So what a what a development, you know? And again, this movie's $1 million in C in France had to be like in on it for like a decade just to get it made. That's what commitment. I really respect it. The fucking man. I can't believe it, man. that's why I'm like, yeah, I'm here for you because you, you stuck, stuck through the whole time. So as we get into Blue Valentine, what it's about, I have a prompt to ask you, because what does the editing structure of the film tell you? Well, how do you feel about it is, you know, and there a bunch of side questions. Is this movie better if we watch everything in order? We watch all the young stuff and then all the old stuff. Is it so, you know, because this is a movie that jumps around in order, we're going to break it down by like the blocks and how it when it jumps back and everything when we're in the present, when we're in the past. But does the structure work for you and why? Oh yeah, I think this whole the, the besides just the, the moment to moment human experience that you get from the actors in every scene. I think the star of this movie is the editing. Yep. Totally agree. You can't have it play out linearly in that way because it's similar to irreversible, where if you just start out with all this sweetness and good, and then you have this giant gradual like, what are we left with? Like having the timeline work in a way where we're seeing what was and what is is so much more effective this way, because we get lost in the good scenes. I'm going to talk about that so much. It's. Yes, it's so true. Live in those scenes and just all of that sweetness and tenderness and love and then boom, it smacks you into what's actually happening. And it's that exact like, stop. That is crushing. Yeah. That's the beauty of the movie is the way it moves like that. And so you're just tired of losing to this nice little warm egg, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh God, no I'm not. No we're not. And now you got to live here. But it's going to be okay because we're going to get back to this or that. So this movie wouldn't I don't think this movie would work if it wasn't edited like this. No. Just the irreversible comp I think is actually good because this would just be good. Like two people fell madly in love and then they went to them having this horrendous breakup like, yeah, okay, we've seen that like that. Yes. The editing is a character. And man, every time we are jumping to the end. But I just could have sworn I thought the fight in the doctor's office that there was really, like, nowhere else to go in that pass. After that, because everything was done. No, we jump to the past and he's like having dinner with her family and and building her up. And I was like, oh man, this it it hits so much harder when we still have more like, love to give. It really does crush you. And then when we're in the past and it's so loving and then every time we, we jump to the present in that fucking future room, I'm like, oh, fucking room, man, I hate this room. I forgot about this room. Damn it. I can't believe we're here again. so. Yeah, yeah, it really it really does service it well. And I'm glad that we. Yeah. Agree on that. And it's not like it loses you. It's not hard. No, no, not at all. Not at all. But yeah that fucking future room. Oh my god. It's got to be one of two. The movie that it's being served in. It's got to be one of the greatest single locations. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's so on that list, people in there. So it's so, there's no windows. Like, how do you even, like, yeah. We'll get there. Yeah, we'll get there. Because there is, there's that one beautifully lit scene where they're eating together and like that. Yeah. So yeah, it's such a great use of that color. Blue. Great blue. Yeah. So I, you know, I was out as I was watching and I split the movie into blocks and one block was just the chunk of time we're in. And then when we jump to the past, I was like, okay. And I do this to try to maybe I can like, learn something from the structure. What I did learn was what I just mentioned of how impactful it was it. He'll leave us on a moment of tremendous love and compassion and commitment, and then boom was back in that room or like, oh God. Oh, that's right, I forgot. The dynamics of this family are established so well, just through observance and behavior. Like we said, he's sleeping on the La-Z-Boy. She's in the bed. They're waking her up. She this this guy. Is it? You know, the daughter's rambunctious because that's what kids are, and we're watching. We're like this dad is, you know, he's kind of the daughter's friend. He's like this obnoxious friend. He's not behaving like a father. And we look at the mom, and she's the chef, the maid, the stylist, the driver, the disciplinarian. She's doing, like, all of the work, literally making all the food. And he's constantly smoking. She's in these nurse scrubs. I love when he just throws his cigaret at that car. It's speeding up. He's like, just fuck it. I know what it's like. This is what you don't know if that was part of the movie or if that just happened, because this movie is full of stuff that just happened on accident because I kept going, I don't know, it seems pretty dangerous. That was an accident. But they didn't put your seatbelt on. Hey, Cindy, put your seatbelt on because could you please put your seatbelt on? This road is crazy. All right, watch out for this guy. Watch out for this fucking asshole. Hey! Fuck! Do you want to slow down this motherfucker? You fucking kill somebody, asshole! We're seeing them. We're seeing Cindy at work. These are really tough scenes because it it's. She's got this false smile to her. This this pained laughter. And it's this mask of professionalism that the people at, people at work don't know what's going on at home. And Dean just sitting there, you know, he's painting houses, he's drinking, smoking, driving while drinking a beer. And then the first thing I want to talk about, I just got gotta love this movie. Screenwriting 101. Folks, you do not kill the dog. You just don't do it. You can kill any person in a movie. It's fine, but you do not kill the dog. Blue Valentine, minute nine. The dog is dead. Yeah, but we don't see it. That's most important. I know, I know, we well, we see the after movie. We see this, we don't see it. But I'm saying it's like, goddamn, this is. And then the way that he, like, blames her would. They're like sitting there in the theater. He's like, what the fuck is the matter with you? And then that's when you're like, wow, things are not right between these two that she's just sitting there crying, like in there trying to conceal it. And he's like, what's the matter with you? I told you to lock the gate. And you're like, okay, things are. But, you know, we don't know where we're going, but we're like, all right. These two are not like, okay at all. And and the like, what I kind of grabbed from that moment, this time around was like, you know, she comes in and she's late for their daughter's dance thing because of this. Yeah. And you know how awful she's already feeling and she's not going to him. It's to, like, find solace for herself. She just, like, matter of factly. But she just goes I found Megan as you are is like a like a person just trying to tell your partner I have really bad news. This is what happened. And and then his reaction to be like. Like I told you to lock the gate. Like. Yeah, you don't expect him like to say that. And that's when she crumbles. It's almost like I'm crumbling because this is the person that I'm with now. I it doesn't surprise her that he said it, but this is just like. And this is my reality. I don't know, it was just something about it. No, I totally agree. And this kind of lends to what we're talking about is that she we, the audience are like, oh my God, that was like fucked up. But she's heard this things like this million times. She's like great. Like, of course I can't go to him for yes, of course I can comfort. Yes. And like at that, at that point when the dog is dead, who cares who left the gate open like you just go, oh, my God, this is. This is terrible. We're gonna have to, like, think about, you know, our daughter now, but. Yeah. Yeah, he's. That's not really. That's not really Dean's vibe. They go to drop Frankie, their daughter off at grandpa's for the night. And here's my guy, here's John Doe. Man, I love this guy. I love seeing this big tough guy wheeling out his oxygen to the porch there. John, this guy's the real deal. Like in real life. This dude was a marine. He became an officer. He fought in Vietnam. And then decades later, he decides to start acting. He was roles in The Wire, love roles. He was the evil bastard who nabs a young Tim Robbins in Mystic River. He was Joaquin Phoenix's kind of like handler. And you were never really here. He was in Oz. He's been in every law and order. He was in the affair. I love this guy. The affair also. Great portrayal. Really great portrayal of how like the hardened asshole father can become the soft hearted grandpa when they get older. I've seen this. I've seen this in real life. I've seen it so many times. And yeah, I love what the years do for his character as well. It's not just Dean and Cindy who were, you know, no affected by this, but and this is something that I've said this before about C France. It's just that this is actually his like minimalist example of this is that he loves spending a life of time a chunk of time. It's it's in every single thing he's ever done is there is a, a a span of time I think is why he's made for like the mini series format, because he can have more of that. But this is a really great contained version of because we're probably talking about ten years. Yeah, maybe like maybe a little bit more and, and and we feel like we get all that history. So when you're saying like, like in that scene, this heart and father has become a softened grandfather, that can't happen in ten years. And it's yeah, it's not jarring it there's this time jump that we're making. Yeah. It's like 6 or 10. However, however old Frankie is, however old she's lost because obviously Cindy got pregnant with her when they met. So yeah. So that's that's like our first chunk. And then we get that. Great. You know, Grizzly Bear did the music for this movie and we. Oh, yeah, we get a great little, like, guitar cue up at our first jump back, and it's Dean, like, looking in the car window. You know, he's got it's got a nice hair, great head of hair in the past. He's rocking those I don't know if they're nice clothes but you know he's got like that little there head. He's checking himself out. Yeah. It's like you hip guys. He's a man of his time. Man of his time I love it. He walks in, you know, talking to the movie guys, talking to the moving guys. They were just, I loves this. Yeah. Oh, another thing I wanted to say is that our first jump back really is Dean story. Like we're with him, you know, for, for a lot of it, and I just. I love that when he's riffing with the, the moving guys, the way they shot this movie, a lot of it was it wasn't like, Blue Valentine. Take one and. Okay, ask him one question. And then then they would do that and then asking the question again, take two. They would just film for 20 minutes and they would just film these guys talking. And Ryan Gosling would ask these guys about, you know, relationships. They did the same exact thing. When Michelle Williams is talking to her grandmother in the kitchen a little later, she just asked her a bunch of questions about love and relationships, and they filming. And the editors used the best part. And that's why you're seeing this level of like, honesty that's in the movie. How do you meet girls? just walking up the what would come to my mind at that moment. Hey, Hanks, to one eyed yourself or we close or we have to try and talk to him. He screams out like chocolate thunder. I don't know, I feel like men are more romantic than women. When we get married, we marry like one girl because we're resisted the whole way until we meet one girl and we think, would I be an idiot if I didn't marry this girl? She's so great. But it seems like girls get to a place. They just sign a pick. Pick the best option or something. I know girls that get married, they're like, oh, he's got a good job. I mean, they spend the whole life looking for Prince Charming, and then they. Then they marry. They marry the guy that's got a good job to step around, take a shower and go home. Okay. And, you know, like, I think in order to reach this level of improvization to work so well, it's like you can't just have this idea of a scene and, and be like, all right, just kind of talk like there needs to be intention behind for the actors. So it's like, all right, you need to ask these guys what they think about love. You're Michelle Williams, ask her grandmother what her love life was like. They they need to be specifically intended for what that seems trying to do. So so but because you've got that structure the scenes can go anywhere, which is what would you say. I think that's what he gets so well in that improvization because so much almost all of this movie feels improvised. but it all makes sense. There's no meandering. There's no, there's, there's like because some movies do that, that, that follow an improvizational structure. They do kind of wander off into different places. And it's not always a bad thing, but sometimes they're like, you're you've lost the thread a little bit. And Blue Valentine is something that never loses a thread, never. And again, this is a credit to the editing, because the amount of footage they must have had to comb through and just and pick out like the best things at all. Yeah, it really plays. But yeah, when you're when you're going to do like an improvizational scene because a lot of people in this movie, not the grandmother, but those guys he works with, those are not actors like a lot of them are not actors. The guy who interviews him, apparently that was his moving company. And he just, like, interviewed Ryan Gosling for the job. So you're working with non-actors and it's not like, all right, guys. Yeah. I sit here, smoke cigarets and just talk shit. It's not. You got to give a little direction. You got to create a box and then they're allowed to go anywhere within the box. It can bounce all over the walls of if our boxes. Questions about love, questions about relationships. There we go. We're not going to be talking about don't talk about the Buffalo Bills. You know, I mean just don't talk about sports I do yeah I so you buddy those moving guys I mean me personally like I relate to the that little part of this movie so much because like for the most part those have always been my jobs. Like I've never worked for a company, but I have worked for like I was a janitor, like, I, I've, I worked in these, like, types of jobs where these are the kind of, you're doing grunt work. Oh, yeah. You know, you're you're clocking in, you're doing this and you do that and you're with older guys. Like when I was younger, like, I was like the Gosling guy. I was like this young guys like, will do. What are you doing here? Like, you're like like, shouldn't you be off like college boy? That's what they would call me doing something successful. Yeah, but you're with these, like, these guys that have just lived a life this whole entire way. And you know that you're temporary to, like. Yeah, you know, like, but but, you know, even for Gosling, he's not, though, like, he ends up not being. But that's how much potential he has and everyone sees it. But you see these conversations having with these just grunt blue collar dudes I love that I love that that it's so it's so honest and real. Yeah. And those are words. Honesty, reality, a lack of artifice. These are things you're going to hear a lot in this episode. And yeah, I demoed houses for construction crew for like two years, like I absolutely I have such an affinity for, this blue collar work and I get it. And that was like, it's tough work. And it was. Yeah, I oh, I love that camaraderie he has with them. I even love I love the, guy like I need you here at seven and Gosling's like, I can be here. I can get it. Well, what kind of job you applying for it? Driver, helper or packer? Whatever. One of the pays if have an experience at all. Sure. where have you worked? I mean, you know, I've helped people move before. I mean, one of my jobs. Yeah, I've worked for a moving company now. Okay, so that would be no experience. where are you from? Florida. And how long you been here? Like two years. And where are you living? I live in Brooklyn. You can you can you get here every day? Yeah, I'll get here. I need you here by 7 a.m.. I get here already? Yeah. Oh, and then I, I love, so sweet. When he goes in, he's setting up that guy's room, Walter Schultz. And then, you know, he puts all the. Okay, so this is another thing. They weren't like, okay, Ryan, go and hang the matchbooks up there. All right, take one, take two. They filmed Ryan Gosling doing. They brought him boxes of shit. He did not know what was going to be in the boxes. And they filmed him for an entire afternoon with a camera to setting that up. And then they edit it in the what, like a 20, 32nd sequence. That's how they made this movie. Yeah, it's really kind of fascinating for, filmmakers. It's just really interesting to think about how you can assemble a movie this way. And it's it's also like you see that character of Dean, like it's such a perfect Gosling is a perfect person to do this type of thing because, I mean, as I think anyone can kind of like I think Ryan Gosling's biggest complaint that he gets in his work is that, you know, he's always Ryan Gosling. You know, this guy, Ryan Gosling is a charming dude. Oh, yeah. He's got like, this wonder, this childlike wonder about him. It's very charming. It's very easy to watch. Like he's one of the most effortless actors to watch because he just kind of his just natural magnetism just kind of comes out. And this is like a perfect venue. So especially when you see that Dean's character is, such a sweet guy. Yeah. Like he's just like a heart of fucking gold, and he's just romance and and and just setting up this, this, this, this guy's life before him for Walter. him explaining. I hope it's okay that I like I touched your I touch your suit. I hope that's okay, but I thought it looks so nice and handsome. You know, sitting up here for you, like, it's just. You just eat that shit up, man. It's so good. And he sees his wife, and he does a little, like, chef's kiss. And then Walter's like, thank you. Really? See, Walter, you know, seems like a real guy. Like, that was actually his room and his shit. He's like, thank you. Like, well, at first, like, I'm wondering, is, like this, this guy okay with all this? Like, he's just sort of looking at him, just sort of like, but then that. Thank you. Like grabs he grabs, he grabs his like, forearm with his other hand like to say thank you. Oh my God, man. Oh so good. These little tiny things man. This is what it's all about. Well yeah, exactly. Even the way he goes and like, collects his money and then looks off screen and then boom, it's cut back to the present. Going back to this shooting style. According to See and Francis commentary, Ryan Gosling dug that whole damn hole for the dog. It took him hours. He dug it. He put a fake stuffed animal dog in the grave. He buried it. He came in the house and started breaking down, crying. That's according to see in France that none of that was scripted. And that's what he was trying to do, was create situations that could organically bring about real life. So, he was saying Gosling was crying because he was just so damn exhausted. He's like, he's exhausted from doing it. And then, you know, he's like, so dumb is all that stuff necessary? I don't know, but it plays. It just plays out so well on film, you know? Yeah, it's it may have wasted some time, but I don't know. You can really, really the movie's just filled with stuff like this. This is not traditional filmmaking at all. There's not takes and setups. It's usually this was all long master shots. And then they, the editors picked what they wanted. It's I just love that. And I love that moment too, because that's like one of the only moments of tenderness that you get in the present. Oh, that's a good point because Michelle Williams is consoling him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, he really is like a softie sitting there watching home videos of the dog of the dog or like, he misses and then and then oh man. And then Dean gets a great idea here. He's, calls up the hotel, and they don't ask a talking point without asking. This is not the only question. Is the most important question in this podcast I'm going to ask you, Nick, would you like Cubits Cove or the Future Room? Let's get out of here. We got to get out of here. We have to get out of this house. Let's call, get drunk and make love. And do you want to? Cupid's cove? Or do you want the future? What a choice. You're crazy. No, no, it's not like. do you want to go to the hotel? It's. We are going to the hotel. We're going to stop off and get all get some liquor first so we can get liquored up. So we're going to go to the future room. That's two hours away, mind you, two hours away. And she. I imagine Dean has worked in X day, but he doesn't give a shit. He's paint houses. Cindy says she's on call for a doctor's office. That doesn't sound fun just seeing him, like, bulldoze over her, but doing it with a smile. Like, do you want a future room or two? You could see how exhausting that would be. Just this person who, like, is not going to give up. And Dean is articulate like he's no dummy, like he knows how to string together an argument. So I oh my God, that's why it's so cool to watch the the past and present or the future. Yeah, the past and present. Dean. Because he's spinning the same yarn that he would if he was younger, except in that moment it would be full of like, life and like promise and, and excitement where the reality in the present, it's sort of like, dude, what are you doing? And he's like, it's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. Like this is up like this whole this bit like, whatever you are, this whole vibe, it's like, oh man. But they go to the liquor store and this is when we get our first glimpse. I love when the movie does this. They're glimpsing a someone in the present time, but we just see them briefly, just like the dad, like John or yeah, dad slash grandfather John Doe. And now we're getting our first glimpse at Bobby Ontario, played by Mike Vogel. And this man just right away. Like the chewing gum. It's fucking annoying. Yeah, he's wearing a world's greatest dad hat, so make sure you catch that. Yeah. I just hate this person. Hate them. Also, keep in mind, this is likely Frankie's father. This is what I did. Or it probably mean. More likely than not is more. Yes, I think for story's sake, it's. It's this is the guy. Well, yeah, we'll get to that, but yes. And then I mean, my God, when they get back in the car. What's so cool about this argument between Dean and Cindy is that it's all from the back seat. And see, in France said he shot it like that because you would hear and witness his parents arguing when he was like a kid. And all you can do is turn your head and you're looking at the person in the passenger seat, then you're looking at the driver, and that's all it does. And it's like you really feel that in the way that he just picks like, you know, one word, 1 or 2 words that she says and just keeps at her and keeps at her to where she's like, I have to pee. So she pulls over the car, just escapes to the woods. That's where your marriage is at. That's well, half. Now, this is an idea that I had this first time around. I seriously questioned whether or not that she actually used this in a way to upset Dean, but then it got caught up in a way that she didn't mean. Because once. And we'll get into it more. But like when you know who this guy is, that this is likely the father of the child that we're raising together, and he beat the shit out of you. Shit out of me. Yep. And you're just going to as if it was a guy of college, buddy. You all went together. You never believe who I ran into, Bobby. Ontario. Like she says it like. Not in a way of, like. So, something just happened. I just ran into Bobby, Ontario. She says it in this way, and it's even Gosling's reaction. He's like, you're just gonna throw that out there like fat? Why do I care if he's fat? Yeah, yeah, but now she's backpedaling because. Right. Because she brought it up. But then why? It's a good question. Why bring it up? Why? Why bring it up? Oh, is it we all. This is this is the worst person in this relationship that you could bring up. This is number one, shithead. So why do it? Yeah. It's it I never really thought about that. Is is she trying to, like, beat him or. This dude makes me feel like I don't want to be going to this fucking hotel. Yes. And then. Exactly. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, shit, I should. She bit off more than she could chew. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oops. Because also too, like, you know, like she's kind, this is not really flirting with him, but she's also not exactly like, not either in that. Well, he comes on to her, you know, if you stayed. Well. Yeah. To your head. Yeah. If you say people who kind of question is that, you know, but still like it raises ideas and yes, we don't I love that too. We don't fully know who this guy is yet. And we're like, we're trying to like catch up. That's part of the structure, the part of the playful structure that makes it fun because we have to, you know, actively sit with it. And then our second jump back, this is Cindy story where we get to meet Cindy. She's young, she's in college, she's dating frat boy wrestler douchebag Bobby Ontario. This is a guy who only thinks about himself in seemingly all areas of life. I think I'll leave it there, but what we are shown in this little block, is what leads me to believe that Frankie is, Bobby's kid. Because, you know. Yes, he, go goes I oh, be careful. I know you have to say yes. Careful. That's the only that we, How do we do this? We do not see Cindy and Dean having sex. That could lead to the birth of a child. In the past, we do see Bobby and Cindy having sexual relations that could lead to the birth of a child in the past. I think that's all intentional. Oh, we don't ever see Dean and Cindy have sex in the past. We do in the present, which is not fun, but we do it. We don't in the past. So that's all. Yeah. That's all. Anyway, moving on. Cindy and Dean meet at that nursing home. That's where Cindy's grandma lives. And, you know, meet and greets and movies. These are not easy to do. We've seen, every single incarnation of it. And these suitors play it so well. It's so perfect away. You know, I've, I've stolen money before. I know what it feels like to get busted. That's what it feels like. I love that, yeah. And apparently they, They kept breaking and kept laughing throughout that. And you see her, like, break a few times, but it took them, like, forever. This was supposed to be a quick scene. It took them forever to do it because they just kept breaking. But he's so fucking charming. He's so charming. I make money and everything, but he take girls out on dates. I love it, yeah. It's so good. It's so good. You think I stole our money? Do you? Yeah. You do? Oh, look, I've stolen money before, okay? I know what it's like to get busted. That's what it feels like, okay? I didn't steal it. I got a job, okay? This is my job, all right? I make money, okay? I got money. I can take girls out on dates with. just, you know. Oh, good to know. Okay. What's your name calling? Oh, hey. Oh, that's a weird name. And, like. And how can you not if you're her like this. Like you're not just be like this fucking guy, okay, I love it. that's a great. Like, you know, meet and greet. And then the matching of when he picked up the money, he was looking off at her. I just I love that. Yeah, it's it's a lot of these small details. Kind of like stacking up and then. Oh, that's nice and sweet. And then we cut back and they're walking into the inside of a robot's vagina. No, not just the future room. The future. They filmed this at the. I got a story about the future. I'm ready. Oh, yeah. They filmed this scene at a Radisson hotel. The 14th floor of a Radisson hotel in a town called King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. As you may recall, recently I drove three hours to watch the film tenet, an Imax 70 millimeter, because the closest screen to me was in a town called King of Prussia, Pennsylvania. Felt like it was going to be a little too much to drive back home. So I decided to stay at a hotel. Do you want to guess where I stayed? You did not. Wasn't there. Oh my God, I was looking, of course. Oh, but did I do some googling to see if it still existed? I did indeed, the Radisson is still there, so apparently it was the 14th floor of this Radisson. They blocked out all the windows and they changed like it was. They were. This was not a set. They were filming in this real place. So I don't know if it exists. If it does, you can't book it on the website. I don't know it. Maybe it's a field trip, but what are you watching? Field. Yeah, that's a field show. We'll do it from the rest of Prussia, Pennsylvania. but when I, when I saw that, I was like, well, King of Prussia is close to me. And I'm like, do these hotels, like, exists? And, well, do they ever. But, they said they couldn't even film in there for long periods of time because everyone got disoriented. They had no idea what time of day it was, though. I mean, there's no windows. There's this, like, revolving bed. Everything looks futuristic like this. It's great production design and great set design. And the way they lit it was kind of genius because the rule was light spaces, not faces. So they put all of these organic lights into the walls, like so. They put so that blue light we're talking about. The room did not look exactly like this. When they walked into it. They spruced it up with some lighting, but they never had lights that could not be on camera. They didn't have any movie lights because that way the camera can move wherever it needed to. So this whole space was theirs and they were able to like, kind of dance around and play, which is interesting when you keep in mind that the camera is so close to them in the present, it's oh yeah, right fucking on them all the time, all the time. Zoomed in right on the we are not able to breathe in the past. It's a lot of wide like master shots. So we can take a lot of it and breathe in the present. We can't put I mean just yeah. Setting up this room. Jesus. But I mean, before dinner in this chunk, this is the, the shower scene. and one thing that I've that in France kind of, illuminated for me in the commentary was that we never see them naked in the past because that's like the beginning of a relationship when everything is new, when you're shy and you're timid. But now, years later, when there's no surprise for anything, it's like, here I am. I'm in the shower. Move out of the way. I need hot water. I love that juxtaposition. I just love that. Yeah, I love it. Oh man, it's such a it's such a gut wrenching thing too, because, like, she doesn't even want to be here. She, like, the first thing she does is goes to take a shower like she is. So she walks into the room, I'm taking a shower, and he's just trying. He's just trying so hard to bring some kind of, like, spark back. So he jumps in the shower thinking that this can be it and it's just not. And so she just leaves. Yeah. And he's like, well, I wasn't really in here for a shower, but yeah, like, okay. It's just, God. And then just like teasing Bobby in the present. Then we got to meet him more in the past. This is the first time that's the You and Me song, which is going to have so much significance again, way, way later, after all the most horrific arguing. That's what we're going to get. The sweet, tender You and Me song. but yeah, that's our introduction to the Future Room. Oh, God. And then what? We jump back, we get shithead Bobby insulting Cindy in front of her grandma like, oh, that's a real that's a real shit move. Yeah. Like that. Because her obviously that is. Yeah. Like. Yeah. Oh my god. And then I love Dean. He's back talking with the guys and trying to explain like how he feels about her. And he just all the. So the ones like in this nursing home and he goes, you know when a song comes on, you just got to dance. I, I love that so much. And just thinking about her and the guys like, you know, you need to go out and, like, meet someone else and get her out of your head a little bit. I love that. And then similarly to how in movies, rom coms, romances, whatever, have a meet and greet is tough. It's often that second meeting that sets things in motion. It's not the meet and greet it's second time you're meeting, so you have to set them up in a way that feels natural, like, okay, they're on a bus and it's just here in the way Gosling plays it. I love the nervous energy of like hitting himself a few times. We see him do that like he'll hit walls or hit himself like, I can't believe this. I can't believe it's in this, this scene on the bus between them, which was fully improvised. It's just it's so good. Oh, it's so good. It feels so improvised. And it's one of those things to where I picked up on this time, watching, like, Cindy's got this very macabre sense of humor because I would, I would, I would I never, ever, ever picked up on a ten times are watching Blue Valentine. Is that our introduction to Cindy's past? Is she's in a wheelchair. Wheelchair. Right. Yeah. And and then she goes and surprises Bobby in his wrestling meet, and he comes out and he says, like, what are you doing here, you freak? And I didn't really understand that. And then you realize that she's not in a wheelchair for any other reason other than she's just being weird. Yeah, that's her grandma's wheelchair. That's half of it. And she's we it about. And then in this bus scene, she tells a child molestation joke. So this is great. Yes. I mean, yeah, she, I mean she again improvised and they put the camera on her. She's supposed to tell a joke and make him laugh. And they kept doing it, kept doing it. And apparently she has a very nasty sense of humor. And this was the last one, and they landed on it. You can see Gosling's face, like, just shaking his head. Oh, yeah. If you listen carefully, you hear people laughing off screen. A gosling looks at someone and shakes his head and he's looking it. They're seeing friends and seeing friends laughing like, it's a great joke to it. You don't expect it to come from like, Michelle Williams. And you're like, oh man, this is great. And she and she's like, what? You don't think that's funny? And he's just like, what? Like they shake. It's like, no, no, I don't. But his whole entire charm too. Like it's just like the and the way that the camera looks like they're expressions that that the camera catches on both of them. Yeah. It's just it's it's beautiful. Yeah. And then they meet on the bus and then we get the whole thing with them. An incredibly iconic scene from the movie The Walk and talk on the street when when they. Oh yeah, we'll stop and she'll do the dance and he'll sing and they, you know, they rent it out that street. And they just walked up and down I think all night, like from dusk to dawn, like literally just going up and down and went. Yeah. And when they wanted ice cream, they would stop and get ice cream. They weren't directed to get ice cream when they wanted to. That's just what they would do. It's not like they had 15 takes of go buy an ice cream cone. Just went and bought ice cream and they sang and dance and it was all captured. And it's really a huge reason why this movie lives on, is because you do feel like you're watching, like a documentary of two people. Yeah. And see. And Francis, you know, when he was working on documentaries, making his bread and butter, he implemented a lot of that same filming style for Blue Valentine. So that's why it's all a lot of it's so handheld and like you'll dip in and out of focus like a documentary. And that all lends itself to these characters. But okay, so that's all nice. Were singing and dancing on the street. It's all very happy. And then this was the first time where I was like, oh, I that whole song, that literal song and dance made me forget about the future room. And then we just cut back. Oh, yeah, they're at dinner. man. Hamlet in the blue light on him. Fuck. That was probably one of, if not the most jarring of cuts going back to the past and future, because you come out of that singing scene and it's just so sweet and alive, and then you're just dropped, right? You're like, oh, fuck, this is where we're at. Yeah. Another thing, this movie gets a lot of stuff, right? But another thing that it gets right is the dinner argument. We love arguments in movies. We've talked about them a lot. And getting a scene like this right is not easy. I'm not. I'm not this. This is not the scene that has the room to for them to stand up and start screaming. That's not when this is. That's later. This is them just locked down and sitting and the back and forth every sentence that both of them have, it's so believable. And he just has an answer for everything. And that blue color we talked about, it's so evocative and just, you know, she's like, what? Don't you think you should do something more than like not having a job where you can drink at 8 a.m. and right away he goes, no, I have that job
because I can drink at 8:00 in the morning. What a luxury. And you're like, oh man. And you're kind of getting a sense of, you know, children and getting married. That wasn't in the cards for me. That's not what I saw for myself. But here I am. And he thinks like that should almost be enough. The fact that he's here, he's raising Frankie like that should be enough. You and you should just feel like he really believes that he's in the right. Yeah. Everything, man. And that's such an interesting choice too, because usually, like, if someone is in conflict about those things, but he just isn't like it is very believable that he's not like, this is a guy that's sort of like, no, I have everything I actually want. Like, I got you, I got Frankie, I got this job. Like, this is the dream. Yeah, this is the dream. And yeah, and it's so much more tragic when someone has just completely bought into it because of what Michelle Williams character is saying is like, God, you could be doing anything because you're so like your aptitude, like your capacity for this, like, smart and talented. Yeah. Charming. Yeah. And it's like it's also like one of the times two where, like when she says that line later, I'm so out of love with you. It does even feel like that in this scene, because she's almost just trying to, like, say to him like, I don't like love you, but you have so much to give. Like, can you just do that? Like, not for me, but for you. Like, can you just do something? Yeah. There is like a resignation in her voice already where you're like, you know. Yeah, she just seems kind of over it a little bit. But in that that scene does go on. They get more, they get drunker and drunker. Yeah. Both playing it so well. They start wrestling on the ground and then that turns into very awkward, almost like relations on the ground. And then this is going to the drunken thing when she just keeps saying, stop it, stop. She sounds trash. And he's like, I'm not going to do it. Yeah, I'm not going to do it. man, it's so uncomfortable. And now, yeah, like this whole thing is this whole sequence is really, really uncomfortable with them, like on, you know, on the ground. And yeah, what he's asking of her and what he doesn't feel like he's getting from her, the it's it's very uncomfortable to watch, but like, what is it shaved in this scene is probably if not it's that end argument. But there's probably nothing more sad than this moment. Yeah. Because she just does not want to do this because she doesn't love him. It it's like painful to even have him kiss her. Oh and he's and he's just like grasping it every straw. Like, can you just give me something and and and for them to kind of just get there, it's so. Oh, it's so gross. But what we're actually experiencing that's uncomfortable is just the reality of a loveless relationship. It is. It's I yeah, I think he's still in love with her and and yeah, he's still I'm sure. But. And it's just gone from her and. Yeah. Yeah. In the drunken stupor like. All right, I'll just give him my body for this little bit. And then he senses that and he's like, I'm not going, yeah. This like, what is this? I'm just going to give you your body. Like, I don't want this. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I'm not going to do. Yeah. Oh my God, it sounds just absolutely trashed. And again, this movie's all about juxtaposition. So we go from that painfully awkward sex scene to them running in the street happily and then engaging in the most passionate act of sex in the movie, which is which is what it got rated NC 17 for initially. It's really just kind of ridiculous when you put it into context. All the other scenes of movies like this that were rated R, but God were really feeling the spikes in this relationship. This is as high as it gets. We've just come from a terrible low. And then that's that's what he's doing the whole time. Yeah. Putting up like these little like snippets from the past and present. But right now what he's actually doing is putting up their best times, their lives right up against the worst times of their lives. And that's that's what we're bouncing back and forth between. You know what? Cindy finds out she's pregnant and shit. Her baby is still lurking. You know, Cindy meets Dean at work, which I which I love. They get that iconic kiss, like in the profile shot. It's so. Which was like just all over all the marketing. It looks so good. And and then it is the big scene on the bridge, on the Manhattan Bridge. And this is probably the best, most notorious example of C in France, giving the actors conflicting direction in their improvization. Yeah. In this scene, Michelle Williams was directed that she has a secret and she is to not give it up under any circumstance. She is to not disclose to Ryan Gosling what the secret is. Ryan Gosling was directed to get the secret out of her by any means necessary. That's what we're doing. So after multiple takes of this and he's getting nowhere, they're walking on the bridge and Ryan Gosling with no safety harness, no net, no security precautions at all. At all, just fucking climbs on the Manhattan Bridge fence and throws his leg over like it. Yeah. Even watching you now, you're like, oh, I mean, it's wild. It's wild. Knowing all that context, it like. And you can hear the panic in Michelle Williams like that's real Michelle Williams like get down, get down, get down. I just I love everything about the scene, but like the set up for it as well. So. Okay, tell me. Stop stop stop stop stop stop stop. You get this helmet. No, stop. Now you're going to tell me. Come down! I'm not kidding you. You're going to tell me what it is. Come. Please come down. Come down! Please. Please stop. Don't go over the edge. No! I want you to come down. Tell me what it is. It's dangerous. You got to tell me. No! Don't stop! Please. Come on, come on. Please! I'm pregnant. Stop! Please calm down. Please. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that. And that is a it's it's it's a really good note to like, I've gotten notes like that from like, you know, play the scene like this and like, just do not like it. Whatever. And then what comes of it is always really fun, but it does take a little bit of time to get there. And so to have an actor that's just going to really take that, take that to the next level. The goose. Yeah. Fucking goose. The fucking goose he was throws his other leg over to like he's right there to be like I'll you know, I'll do it. and then, you know, abortion scenes are never fun and movies this one certainly is not. Sorry. but Gosling's nervous energy, like, when she sees her and he's, like, hiding in his coat. And when he sees her walk out and he doesn't really know what's like happened yet. I love the the leather he's got on like the great head of hair. It's, you know, it's probably the most devastating thing about the present day is Dean's lapsed hairline. I would say, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That man may stop drinking someday, but he will not stop being bald. that's why he's so stuck. That's his plight. That's why he's such a mess, you know? And you know, that's a very tender scene. And then I love you. They're saying I love you to the first time on the bus in about this bus. What I want to say is, throughout this movie, these two actors have a way of, like, wrapping themselves in each other, whether she's, like sitting on him. And they just feel like one, like when they are at the most love, they feel one. But then even in the present, they have a way of being so close to each other and you're like, oh, you just want them to have distance. But when she's laying on his lap on the bus, you're like, oh, this is so sweet. It's it's crazy how the movie can do this over and over, over and over. And, I actually really, there's a moment where where she runs out of the office after stopping everything. And, I mean, that is just a really great scene. And her part two, like, you feel really as have like. And you got that doctor who's, like, explaining everything as it's happening. It's every, every moment of that scene is just, it's it's really, really something. But, when she runs out of the office and he goes after, you know, he throws his, his jacket over her and, you know, she's telling him because we don't hear the dialog. She's actually like, if, you know, it's like her physicality is she's actually pulling away and he's just like holding her and and and and it's almost as if, like Cindy was like, I'm running away from everything and and but, but and it's just, man, there's just so much to this movie and these little tiny details. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I it took me 2 or 3 viewings to put it together that this probably isn't his kid. I mean, it isn't. It's just not his kid. Yeah, yeah. You have to be like following stuff along and, and, you know, the kind of sacrifice he makes on that bus by saying, like, let's do it. Like, let's raise the kid, like, let's, let's let's be a family. Let's be a family. Let's do it. Yeah. So it's so sweet. They go from, I love you, I love you straight back to the fucking future room. Oh, man. And this is the dreaded wake up call for work. And I just want to say, consider this. Cindy has woken up at 6 a.m.. That's when she's getting called to come in to work. That's early.
Dean is woken up at 11:00 am from a wake up call, and he is still hung over, and he just decides to start guzzling vodka right away. I mean, he got five more hours of sleep than Cindy, and he's still in way worse shape. And it is like, yikes. In terms of I've been calling out like the times of how long the jumps are happening, but it's def they're definitely starting to get shorter here because I like I timed how long each block was. So this block is only four minutes and we're about to jump to the past. That's only three minutes. So we're it's it's making things go at a more rapid pace to lead to this horrific argument. But yeah, them both waking up for works or just waking up separately. And then when Gosling wakes up and she's not there, he's so believably hung over just that look of like, and having to get up. Oh, man, where's the closest bus station? Oh. Oh my God, dude, that made me think to. I was like, man, like, why didn't she just, like, wake him up and bring him, like, even though that would have been tough. Like to wake up. Oh. That's so. Yeah. I mean I thought about that, but I'm like it's six and they, they, you know, and maybe, maybe this man, it's not possible to wake up if he's maybe hung over at 11 a.m.. I mean, how could even I don't know, but yeah, like she left a note, but then, I mean, got him taken the bus drunk. Slash hung over. It was a two hour drive. How long is this bus ride? Wow. And then we jump back to the past. And this is Bobby the Brute. He's back this time. He has a few of his cronies to help kick the shit out of port Dean here. Well, what I want to say, though, I didn't think I was going to do this. I'm going to give a little credit to Bobby, because those other two guys do not help him out. And I remember that they did. But this is a one on one situation. And don't get me wrong, the fact that the guys are there already puts Dean in a weakened mental state because at the very least, he knows that he's outnumbered. But I do appreciate that they don't. They did not jump Dean, that it is a fair fight. So here's what we got, folks. Punch one uppercut, gut punch punch two. Another uppercut, gut punch. Then we get an uppercut to the chin. That one's bad. And then Dean does a little scrapping, a little wrestling, but Bobby takes him down. It's a fair takedown. Fourth is a right hook to the face. Fifth punch, right hook to the face, then three left hooks, six, seven and eight punches are all left hooks. The nine hit is a kick to the stomach. It's a lot of work over for a guy who's dating your ex. Like, I mean, it's not like he stole her from you. Like Cindy doesn't like you any more. Dude. Yeah, I'm just wanted to call that out. It's a hell of a beating to hell that eating for just. I counted every punch, and I was like, man, he really got the shit kicked out of him. And the kick in the stomach at the end, it just it didn't really need to be there. But the way Gosling tries to get up and then falls down, oh, so believable, so believable. It's a yeah, it's just trying to answer the phone. Yeah, just the ring tone. Yeah. Ding. Yeah. It's bad. I mean, those voicemails that Bobby leaves on, like, this guy sucks like this. You're making the right call. Get this guy out here. And I like that scene, too, because, like, at first she's laughing at him. Yeah, because it's funny, and then it's funny, and then he's like, I'm going to beat the shit out of him. And then like, the concern comes in and it's just, man, I hate Bobby. And now we're back. You know, Dean just gotten the shit kicked out of him, and here we are for nine minutes. We get one of the all time great movie arguments, fights. It is so, so tough to watch. Here we get Ben Shankman, who I've already met as Cindy's boss, but now he's just openly hitting on her. And we notice that he's not wearing a wedding ring. And it's it's just it kind of lends itself to. You've been emailing my wife, which is great. you know, in a few minutes and a few minutes and Dean shows up at work in this, this argument scene has everything I could possibly want from an argument scene in the in a movie. It starts quiet, swells up, calms down, they change locations, and then it's just gas is thrown onto it and he doubles back when he comes back inside and it just fucking explodes. But to go like to the beginning, even when he shows up and he's like, I don't need this. And whatever her name is me, me memes, she's like, oh, you must be Dean. And he's. Yeah, like what? What does that mean? Oh so good. He's got actress. Oh he's way oh she's great. She, she played that perfectly because. So great. Just enough of that little sting. Because you get that from him. He goes what do you mean it. What do you like to say my name like that? Like, what's that supposed to mean? Because, you know, like. Yeah. And she says it again to the like as they're on their way out before he storms back and she's like, don't let him brainwash you, so don't let him brainwash you. What is that supposed to mean? Yeah, I know, I know, I love that. And that's like one of these moments where you have where as angry as you might be as an audience member, like against him for being such an awful situation right now. He's had a brainwashing her. So it's like it's like, okay, all right, I might be drunk and I might be out of line, but whoa, whoa, lady. Like, yeah, he's like, oh, who are you? And what are you telling these people? Yeah, I love oh. This is where the smiles happen. This is smile. Oh, it's it's a smile still. It's my room. She's trying so hard. She's like, no, I'm just surprised to see you. He's like, you just left. Does some good having a Frankie, I mean. And then they go outside, you know, she's going to leave. And now we've talked about how claustrophobic it is in the future room. But even out here, it's so close to them. Like, so close to me. Can't see things. Are you okay to drive all this stuff? She goes back and then honestly, like in a weaker movie, this would be the last scene, this huge like argument. It would just be I'm done. And they go, they go back to, you know, the grandfather's house and they have out the kitchen stuff there, but instead we're going to get a lot more love between them. And it's wild. And if we're going to talk about this at the end, but if Michelle Williams won the Oscar, it should it would have been for this scene here. Just the way. Yeah. The way that she devolves into even the language she's using when she starts calling him the SeaWorld C-word and you're like, oh yeah. And she challenges his manhood. So then he is starts throwing things around. Doctor Feinberg comes in making things way worse. And this is when you really believe the drunken rage within Diaz. Like, yeah, he's like, wait a minute. Who are you? Who are you? Yeah. And then, you're fucking Doctor Feinberg. I. Oh, man. And then, he's just outrageous, like he's lost control. I'm going to count out. This is his office, and you're going to count out for him to leave his office, like, you know, gets the one, punches him, and I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Like, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. It's the fuck is the matter with you? You got a glass jar, you get a glass jar, you get waving, you get it. And then she. When she starts hitting Gosling, she, gave him a bloody nose. She was really hitting him and really beating up on him. And Gosling was just taking it, and she gave him a bloody nose. Yeah, I'm gonna hit me. I'm gonna hit you in five seconds. Take it easy, man. Another five seconds. Maybe call the cops. They're coming for me. Me! You get out, get out. Take it outside. Like when you think about your. What you think? Oh my God, oh my God. I'm sorry. Okay. Sorry sorry sorry sorry buddy. Get him! Just get. What the fuck you got a glass jar or something? You can't take one. All right, this one here. Sorry. What is wrong with you? Oh, my God, it's a very, very like. Because his face looks like when she's doing that, he looks so, like, truly sorry and defeated. Like he's completely embarrassed. Like it's so sad in his face. I did is I did, dramatic improv play where I didn't even realize I did this. Oh, shit, I was in I was in this dramatic improv situation where, I had found out that my wife, you know, was cheating, quote unquote, cheating on me and all the characters that were a part of this dramatic, like, like one act scene all came out, and then a surprise person came out and was playing the person that was cheating on my wife with. And I literally did a countdown. I go, I go, I'm going to count down from ten, and if you're not out of here, I'm going to, hey, but I didn't know that I was referencing Blue Valentine because this was like 2013. Okay? If he doesn't fucking leave the room, I'm going to fucking hit him. So I was like, you leave in 10s, I start counting, counting down. And then this actor was so fucking good. I get down to three and he goes, two, one, motherfucker. and I'm no joking. I fucking lunged across the stage. an actor in your movie. Wait, Nathan Stayton? Yeah, yeah, he fucking he fucking grabbed me. He was. He saw, like, my charge. He was. Shit. He's really coming. Obviously, I wasn't really going to hit him. It was just in the moment where Nathan just. Nathan just fucking, like, grabbed me. And he's just like. It's like, calm down, calm down, calm down. Nathan was a good peacekeeper. He was. Yeah, yeah. That's. It's a good role for you. Yeah, yeah, he was he was the best. But, anyways, I this that whenever I watched Blue Valentine since then and I get back to that scene, I go, oh my God, I thought I came up with a fucking brilliant moment all by myself. And it turns out that I subconsciously was stealing from Ryan Gosling and Blue Valentine. Well, I mean, there's no better person to steal from you. Totally. Absolutely. That's so outrageous. But you totally believe it. That. Yeah, like, oh, yeah, he's right there. And then he does it. Yeah. And then he does it. the switch of I'm sorry. Oh that's what. Oh, yeah. So you're like him and he's helping him up. Like what? Like you're helping him. Yeah. Because you're good. You go Cyndi you are done here. He's like she's done, she's done. You're gonna fuck my wife. My wife. I love the way you keep saying you've been emailing my wife. I love to like, keep doing that. bad. and then yeah, I mean, they go outside, she's, she announces she wants a divorce in the way. Oh, yeah, that's the ring. And then, like, there's no way this was planned. He throws the ring and, like, jumps out of the passenger seat as she's reversing like he could run over. She's like, Then. Yeah. Goes and finds a ring. so set in that way, she helps him. It's like it's hard to, it's it's everything about it. Yeah. Great. So then, yes, I, I it is a good scene. It's very tough to watch, but I in my memory, this is a movie I've seen a lot. I just thought that was, I thought it went right from that to the kitchen and then in the kitchen. But no, we get like a really jarring jump cut back, because now Dean is so effusive in his love for Cindy. This is the first time we see him being public about it. outside of his, the guys he works with, he's in front of her parents. He's. Yeah, I soon met it. Oh, I don't have a high school education. I don't know who my mother is. My father's a janitor. But he's not saying any of this like he's ashamed of it. He just goes, you know, this has been my journey where I've ended up in life so far. And he's being completely honest with it. And but then also in a really believable way, talking about Cindy and how much he cares about her. And like, she's the smartest person I know. She's going to be great doctor. I hope she's my doctor if I ever need a doctor, it's. And his makeup, his, beating makeup is really believable. Very good. Yeah. Very good. Yeah. He looks sufficiently fucked up like you would like. The nose would be enlarged. Yeah, it's a good scene. I like the way Damon plays the scene. John Doe, you know, when there, he just such, like, a believable hardass. I mean, that first scene when he, like, throws the meatloaf on the table. Oh, yeah. She loves to eat this. Oh, my God. Fucking fucking dudes. Oh, no. Fucking did that like you did cook this shit for me, Lee. She fucking made you a meal, man. She's. Oh good mashed potatoes. Right. There's some good food on God. Jesus Siculus, you know who makes my meals? Uber Eats. That's right. Real. Deliver them real bad. And then finally, they, you know, they go up to the bedroom and we get the you and me song, the introduction to that. Yeah. It's so sweet. And then finally, all this, like love has come full circle in. We jump back to the present. This is when you know John Doe and his grandpa is like, just leave her alone, Dean. I love that he locks her up. It's like it all my oxygen. Like it's his house. Yeah, this is really tough. They're just calmly having it out in the kitchen in the way he's, like, slamming the wall over and over. And she's like, I just can't do it. I can't do it. And then we do get that the really the only time the movie, jump cuts and her cross cuts, rather cross cuts. And we're jumping back to seeing them getting married and we spend like three minutes between them getting married and then breaking up, and that we've already talked about it. That doozy of a line you said, for better or worse, it was a promise. This is my worst. It's a good line. It's like the last, really, clear line of dialog from him. Yeah. I mean, you know, they have some for you. I love you, I love. And then. And then they walk outside, you know, it's of course it's beautiful cross cutting the the, simple wedding reception just in, like, the courthouse or the solid suit. Yes. He's got a great suit, great suit. And they're in love. And she's crying as they're exchanging vows, and then they go outside. And I mean, just this fucking perfect ending on the 4th of July was supposed to be Halloween scripted for Halloween, and then they just kids were at the corner doing fireworks. And when you're making a low budget movie,$1 million is not a lot of money. if it rains that day, you're shooting in the rain. You don't. So if there's kids doing fireworks and you did not, you know, set up, like, the whole block, then just do that. Walk toward the walk toward the whatever, the destruction, the commotion in a day. And that's the thing, too, is like, what I love is that you've got like, this walk away, that he is completely, like devastated from. And this sounds of just chaos. Yeah. Of these fireworks and these kids like yelling and screaming and playing. But then his daughter runs up like there's like, so much in like my favorite, like, physical reaction he has is like, he turns around, sees her, and he just collapses into his knees, like, with his hands on his legs, like, I can't have you now. Like, like I like you need to go like I can't, like I can't handle seeing this. And all the while you've got this firework commotion like it's so jarring and weird, but it's just. It is. I, I it would be weirder if that wasn't happening. It just doesn't seem fitting to walk into, like, I don't know, walk off into the sunset, without all that craziness going, yeah, it was all so well. But yeah, the way it's like kind of lighter and they play that fake quick game of like, oh, I'm gonna let's run back here. Yeah, wins. And then he just. Yeah. Needs needs to be alone. Dean Dean's always got something to say. Always. Not when we leave him. When we leave him, he's walking away in solitude. And. Yeah, their their religion, their marriages. Done. It's that's it. We watched we watched it be born. We watched it die. That's what happened to me. I can't wait for Blue Valentine to, God, I can't what what is. So now that scene, Francis really done it. And, you know, he's going to let, like, how far we go. 15 years. Are we going to get a, like a before sunrise for sunset? So 2025 would be 15 years. That's, Frankie's grown up. Frankie's grown. What's going. What's going on? You know who's. Is Bobby still in the mix? Maybe Dean had Bobby killed. No, Dean's not Dean. Dean's not a fighter. Well, he what he did, but it's Blue Valentine, too. But, I mean, for 112 minute,$1 million movie, it's just perfect. I loved it. Everyone's still talking about it. It. Yeah. Yeah, it really goes better with age. And doesn't mean it's a tough movie. Doesn't mean it's an easy movie. It's a tough movie. It's a tough sell. But I just had I had a I had so much fun rewatching it and studying it for this. Yeah, it was great. Every time I watch it. It's my new favorite time watching the movie. Yeah, and and this was no exception. And I'm like, damn it. Just movie just keeps getting better. And it's so funny. They were talking because like everyone that I know that seen this movie is like, this is a one and done for me. Yeah, that's all true. Valentine. I you know, I respect it. I, I, you know, it was very well done. It it really cut to the bone. Don't need to watch it again. I'm like, yeah, I think I'm going to watch it on Friday. You fucking right I am. Damn right. It's a great movie. It's I mean, the way that it was done, the filming style, the technique that two editors, Jim Helton and Ron Patton, I'm probably not saying that. Right. And they you can tell they put in a lot of good work on this. Just a ton of good work. I've I've loved this movie since the first time I saw it. I'm so happy we got to talk about it. Did we miss anything along the way that you wanted to mention? no. Not really. Just more gloating. Just a how much I love seeing friends. And I just love that this is like his style. This is how he likes to work. I know this is probably the loosest he's ever been. I'm sure as his, his, his filmmaking has gone on, he's probably gotten a little bit more tight. But I think he still keeps that that very improvizational structure. Like let's and I just think that this is one of the best ways that you can actually get to that level of truth on camera is to kind of by working like this. So I'm just so glad that we currently have someone that this is their style, this is how they work. And this is the type of results they get. Because as you go on, like your Blue Valentine is your favorite, but, this type of work is what you get in all of his stuff. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah you do. And you feel that you feel life in his work because of this. Because the way he films. Yeah. And again, like me saying Blue Valentine is my favorite. It's not to slight any of his other work because I love him. And thankfully, you know, I'm he made I know This Much Is true, which is great. That was a mini series, but his last movie, technically it was 2016, and now he has one in pre-production called Roof Man. Yeah, crime movie. He does? Yep. About a rooftop robber apparently on the lam, evading capture from authorities. This is all according to IMDb, directed by and written by Derek C and France and apparently starring Channing Tatum. What we'll see already. Oh, wow, I don't I don't know, I, I actually have heard of this like in the trades. So I don't know I don't think they've started filming it yet, but it is a green movie. It's not like, oh will it happen? It's a green movie. It's going to go. So that'll probably be a 2025 release. Hopefully. Channing Channing Tatum is probably actually a very good actor because it's like so much of his his style. Is that truthful. Just, you know, like you're never going to see Channing Tatum necessarily play like some, you know, chameleon type character. Like he's always going to kind of be him, but that's when he's at his best, like those very human moments. So that's it. I like that collaboration idea a lot, actually. Yeah, I do too. And he, you know, this is someone who gets a good cast together. He's always had at least two big people in his cast. So this is just Tatum is the first person committed. Like does Gosling come on as someone who knows who knows. We have ages to go, but I'm so glad he has a movie in the pipeline. He's working up something that's awesome. 2020 for the rest of this year is going to be a little tough movie wise because of, the strikes and everything, but they're going to tee us up for 2025. In a way that's going to be awesome. But that was Blue Valentine. I'm so glad we got to talk about it. We've been circling this one for ages. I really only have one final prompt because this movie did receive one Oscar nomination. I'm very glad it did. Michelle Williams was nominated for Best Actress. Every time I'm watching this movie, I go, shit, why didn't she? Why did she not win? She should have won. She's so goodness, this is insane that I think. And I go, oh yeah, 2010 Best Actress shit. So let's just talk it out, all right? Put some respect on that name. Here are the nominees Annette Bening. The kids are all right. Nicole Kidman in Rabbit Hole, another movie that got a lot of talk on her favorite movie arguments. Jennifer Lawrence in Winter's Bone, shell Williams in Blue Valentine. Kidman, Lawrence and Williams. I, I don't know about Kidman, but those are some career best work. Like they're the oh yeah, three of them are great. And then the eventual winner is something I cannot argue at all. And that's Natalie Portman in Black Swan. And you go, yeah, that makes sense. Like yeah she yeah it wasn't. And no one else was close. That was a lock from the beginning. So so whatever that matters. But I'm just saying like Natalie Portman, Nicole Kidman, Jennifer Lawrence, Michelle Williams, those are a really, really good performances. And but just a great year, a great year for the category. But I do think the right person won. It's hard to admit my net, my Natalie yeah, yeah I do. I love that performance. I just rewatched that movie Rachel actually. Yeah. It's been it was on Netflix on January and then it left and I was like, fuck. I actually really wanted to rewatch that. We brought it up. It might be on the pod. Yeah, we brought it up on some parts. I put on my Blu ray because I like maybe it's a, future, deep dive. Oh, man. Made to the wrestler. We did it, Aronofsky. We did The Wrestler. So yeah, it's true. Black Swan commentary. Potentially. Maybe. Maybe that's a lot her out of that one. All right. What are you watching? We're here. All right. I like my choice. I don't know if you know this about me, Alex, but I'm a Ryan Gosling fan. The goose is loose. Here we go. So it's going to be. So I'm going to go with I'm going to go with another, with just a straight up Gosling I but it's, I love the collaboration between C and France and Gosling. So I wanted to go with another collaboration effort that Gas guzzling actually has quite a few of these. Yeah. but I'm going to go with his, Damien Chazelle. Okay. Work. And I'm going to recommend First Man. Great, cause great film. That's just we we try to kind of like pitch that movie because no one ever seems to talk about it, and yet it's like an amazing fucking movie. So I just want to keep putting that out there, like, yes, La La land. Yes. Whiplash. Yes. Babylon, for God's sake. But don't forget about First Man. It's so good. What happened with First Man? I truly think this is that La La Land was a movie he always wanted to make. That's why he wanted to be a filmmaker. And like, that was it. And I mean, but he actually wrote the script for Babylon before La La Land. So maybe Babylon was a movie that he wanted that made him want to be a director. So he makes a small thing. Whiplash la La land. I do not think I maybe I'm wrong, but when that movie was nominated for Oscars, that tied the record for the most nominations ever for a movie, I don't think they anticipated that. I don't think they anticipated how well it would do with the Oscars, that he would become the youngest Best director winner in the history of the Academy Awards. That's awesome. But I do think he was penalized for his next film, First Man, because, as we said, and I think a lot of people would agree, I like First Man better than La La Land and oh yeah, and I like La La Land. I like every movie he's made, but I like First Man and man. Was that just they just turned their back on it. Got a few names, but nothing substantial like they were thinking. I think Gosling thought, all right, I didn't get in there for Best Actor for La La Land. He got nominated but didn't win. Like I'm doing what they want you to do. I'm playing a real person. It's like an American hero. Like, I think maybe they thought that this was going to be the Oscar movie First Man, and it just wasn't. I don't know, that does happen in Hollywood. Sometimes they're like, all right, we we gave you your moment. We gave you your night. We're not going to give you another one. And then, completely ignoring Babylon is we set it on our Babylon episode. We said it all through that award season that them turning their back on that will not age well, and it already has not aged well because people love that movie. People. Really. Babylon. Oh yeah. There is a there's literally Babylon five if you go like on Twitter or any social media, there's hashtag Babylon five and people are like, out here, people love it, love it. I just this makes me so happy. The distribution. Oh yeah, they screwed the distribution like they screwed it. They totally screwed it. I have a few thoughts on movies like this. Like 2025, when we do our top 25 of the century so far. And then, you know, I don't know if I'm going to make it to 2050. We'll see. We'll see. But there is going to be a lot of talk around 2050 of what's like the definitive movie of the decade so far. And I think you're going to hear things, these titles that weren't necessarily mentioned a lot at the time. I think they're going to be mentioned. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, whatever. First man Rob, I'm excited for that episode. And yes, first man does rock the Imax scenes when they land on the moon. Or they were just it were really something to behold in the theater going from 16 millimeter to Imax. It was like, fuck yeah, you maybe. Well, I thought maybe for like the third time in what are you watching history. We were going to have the same one because I also went with the goose and I it was maybe a double double goose. I rewatched it yesterday. And it also is tangentially related to your girl to Natalie. Because yesterday, for the second time in my life, I rewatched Terrence Malick's songs on a song. Song came out in 2017, and this is a movie that I kind of have a tough time with every Malick movie on First watch, but especially that trilogy of To the Wonder, Knight of Cups song to song when he is way more interested in narrative water as opposed to narrative story, he's much more interested in things flowing like water, or in making a movie that feels like a love story passing from song to song. Yeah, when I was watching it, now that I had control over it, I could pause, I could rewind it. I feel kind of weird to say, like, it's not that tough. Like, I got it all. It was really easy. It wasn't easy in the theater, but I got it like I got. Yeah, the movie is I got that it's an introduction of a couple, and then a lot of other stuff is going to happen. And there's a music scene in other couples. It's really like a love square, not a love triangle, but like, Natalie Portman, Ryan Gosling never meet. And it's so it's not a square in terms of like, everyone's connecting and like hooking up. It's not like that. But the way that, yes, it's the way that it goes. It's more like, it's like a circle, like on water. It's it's the editing structure is so fascinating. But yeah, I just wanted to mention that I had a real good like, I'm a moderate about face about it for the better, for the better. Liked it a lot more. A lot more. Yeah, yeah. Good song, good song, good movie. Good. Good song. The song. Good song. Song. It's good. Blue Valentine song. Song. First man. Here we are. That was fun to talk about. Blue Valentine, baby, you got a studio? Yeah, yeah. Oh my God a goose stew acoustic. Let us know what you think about Blue Valentine if you're watching it. Rewatching it. This is a movie that's almost always on streaming. Very easy to find. Let us know on letterbox, Twitter, Instagram, Wawa, underscore podcast. But as always, thanks for listening and happy watching. It's a thing is this and shape becomes a. Hey everyone, thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex withrow.com. Nicholas Dose Telecom is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at W underscore podcast. Well, someone must like song to songs. Just recorded a whole damn Malick episode. Blue Valentine I was I was trying to be selective in the clips I used. I did not want to use a lot of arguing clips, but I had to use the punch. Next time is going to be a fun and loose episode. We're going to spend the majority of the time talking about Richard Linklaters new film, Hit Man. I've already seen it in the theater, I loved it. It is going to be on Netflix the day that this podcast episode is out June 7th. Watch it and then last night, oh my God. I went to the movie theater and saw a new horror film called In a Violent Nature. Nick will never see that movie, but I will absolutely be talking about that on the next episode as well. Stay tuned. It's been.