135: Remembering Gena Rowlands

Alex and Nick pay tribute to one of the best performers to ever grace a stage or screen, the great Gena Rowlands.
Listen to our previous episode on the films of John Cassavetes here.
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I always, always wanted to be an actress. It came from reading so much. Acting itself is much like reading a book. My mother taught me to read quite early, and as I read it, I began to realize that you didn't have to just live one life. You can be a lot of people and do a lot of things. It caught my fancy. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex with throw in. I'm joined by my best man, Nick Doe. Still. How you doing there, Nick? I appreciate it. That's authentic today. Hey. Yeah, yeah. Had to do it. Yeah. yeah, I appreciate that. And, Yeah, man, it's, it's a tough one. This is actually a really tough one. It is, it is. We've lost one of the greats. We've lost a giant. A giant, a titan of acting. Yeah. Maybe, not to be grandiose right off the bat, but, I don't know, maybe my favorite performer to ever grace the stage or screen like Gena Rowlands. Seriously, it's. Yeah, that that's the biggest thing that I mean. Well, I suppose we shouldn't say too starting off. This isn't a tragedy. This isn't, Right, right. 94 years old. Great life. Yes. Lived a long, good life. intensely like collaborative artistic life. Wait till we talk about who she was married to. Oh, sure, a lot of people know, but her three children are all directors. Like, it's. Yes, very. A long career, a good life. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a tragedy. It's just just one of those things we're seeing more and more of you know, every week where it feels like one of our a legend is being lost. Yeah. And that's just kind of life. And I think that's where the sadness lies is just in in all of that and the, you know, sense mortality that, that brings. But I mean, really ultimately this is a celebration. Yeah. And I'm so glad we were able to do this episode because, well, anyone who's listening to us talk about, her and her John Cassavetes pod, you know, there's nothing new to really say, but this is a beautiful way to kind of remind people like, hey, this is the work that this woman has done. And I think you're right, man. I've been thinking about it a lot. I, I don't know, I can't think of too many other actors in the world where I can hold up performance to performance to performance and what each one of them gave that can be what she's done. She's that good, folks. Yes, she really is. So yes. We're not like, if you go all the way back oh, 25th, 2020 is when we were John Cassavetes episodes that. Yeah. And then I combine them. It's episode 1718. We spend, I would argue, just as much time talking about her as we do talking about him, because she was so important to his career. She was in most of his movies, almost all of his really good faces, production, movies, playing really essential parts. She was nominated for Oscars for two of them. So yes, this podcast is not going to we're not going to be covering a lot of new Gena Rowlands ground. We're really just touching base because we lost her. So we're touching base with new listeners about, you know, our enthusiasm about this performer and just, yeah, encouraging people go check out a movie from her or a movie that she was in. This is all really strange because I've been chatting with you just as a friend, like I mentioned on the pilot, that I saw shadows, which she's very, very briefly in, in Paris in October, and now I'm like, it's something. It's been in my brain where I go, it's time I'm doing all these movies again. I'm doing all the Cassavetes movies. It's been about four years, so I've been doing them not like all at once and, you know, a week or something, but spacing them out. Got to see husbands in the theater. And I watch Gloria just, I mean, like a few weeks ago and was completely in love yet again. And then, you know, this happens and I'm like, Jesus, this what a weird, weird way for this to go down. But when I was rewatching the movies, because I have not watched them since we recorded the episode, and we both worked really hard on that episode. Oh, like, we watch them and rewatch them and watch the special features. Listen to the commentaries. we put a lot of work into that, and I thought, I don't know, it's are these going to have like, are they going to seem a little stale to me either because I studied them so hard? It's the opposite. I'm able to sit back and fully a killing, killing of a Chinese book. Yeah. I also watch that one, which he's not in, but I'm like, really? In Cassavetes world. And I'm just marveling at them going, wow, I've already studied this. I've already, you know, submitted my thesis, which were these podcasts, and now I can just sit back and enjoy, you know, they're challenging films, but I still enjoy them so much. And her work is so present. If you go like, I have watched Gloria and then, I don't know, two weeks later, watch a woman Under the Influence, it's a completely different person. It's it's like poise and grace and Gloria, she's so badass. She's so strong. Woman of the influence. Just her little tics. You're like, well, yeah, we'll talk as we go through her filmography. But it just watching any movie that she was in that her husband directed, I'm. I always go, I think this is the best we ever had. It's insane. I'm in the middle of opening night right now, and it's, I'm just reminded again of, like, oh my God, oh my God, what she's doing here. She's just she's a true it's she's a true powerhouse, you know? And it's funny because I think we get to talk about today's episode in a way where before we're always talking about, well, these are John Cassavetes movies, and it's true that they are. But I think maybe for the sake of today, like instead of us recommending do you go see a John Cassavetes movie, why don't you check out Gena Rowlands movie? Because it kind of exacts a little bit of the way that you watch it, because maybe necessarily Cassavetes is work is a little tough to digest. We still highly recommend you see it, but there's no way that you won't be able to watch a Cassavetes movie without seeing Gena Rowlands and then being just completely floored by what she does. It's almost like impossible to hold up another or try to compare either her performances to her own performances or anyone else. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like a lot of people don't really know her in the way that we're talking about her. And and it's true because she those were her biggest film I suppose. Contributions. but she is just been a, a actor for her whole entire life. And and doing theater and all that stuff in. Oh man. Could you imagine what, how great it would be to see her like on stage. Oh my God. I mean, that's how John pitched A Woman Under the influence. That's how he pitched Mabel. And she read it and she's like, John, I nor any actress can do this on stage every night there. They'll die. Yeah. Like go into cardiac arrest. A movie we can do, but we can't do this on stage. I bet she was an absolute powerhouse on stage. Yes. A decades long career on stage, TV in the 50s and 60s, films from the 50s starting until, you know, the 2000 well into the 2000. And yeah, we've been going, I don't know, six minutes or so so far. If you haven't seen any John Cassavetes movie, any Gena Rowlands movie, there is a film and a performance that we guarantee. Gena Rowlands is very, very known for because the movie is incredibly popular. In 2004, Gena Rowlands played older Ali, the older woman in The Notebook, and that film is directed by her and John's son, Nick Cassavetes. So that's who we're talking about here. We're talking talking about older Ali, who's in that, you know, nursing home with James Garner. Very lovely, very sad. A lot of people have seen The Notebook, the movies, all the movies we mentioned today. That's got to be the most well seen, especially probably with our listeners. Yeah, yeah. So that's who we're talking about. And she's really good at that movie. She doesn't have a lot to do, but she's really good and she makes everyone cry in it. Everyone cries because of her. And she was doing this shit in the 60s. That's all we're saying? Yeah, yeah. What you see in your notebook, she's been doing her whole life. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's. And it's, you know, funny that you even bring that up because, I mean, that is the most popular movie. I think that, that we're talking about today that everyone has seen. But that is the one scene in that movie that the people talk about the most. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The memes have gone on with, you know, Gosling and Rachel McAdams and all that stuff. But like when people talk about that movie, it's that anything and that moment is a it's a beautiful, beautiful moment captured on film. That realization that you get. Yeah, that is a very easy scene to fuck up if you don't have the right way or you don't have the actors hit that moment, then everything that we've just seen for the last two hours doesn't mean anything. Right? So it's it's a beautiful, moment on film and it's like exactly what you said. That's that's just what she does. It's what she does. That movie's really well cast. Like everybody's good. James Garner's good, James Marsden, James. Crude. Oh, God. What's e from? Authorizations and their key boys? Yeah, Kevin's like really heavy. He's bad. He's like, it's, Fred dies in the war. Oh. That's right. oh. Sam Elliott. Sam Shepard, rather. Sorry. Sam Shepard. Yeah. The dad. Yeah. Used to have this little stutter. All right. Jenna, we love you. Born in November. Nope. Yet born Virginia Catherine Gena Rowlands or Rowlands. How Nick says it. Is it Gena? Is it Gina? Is it Rowlands? Is it Rawlins? I don't know. We lover. Born June 30th, 1930. She did pass away August 14th, 2024. She was 94 years old. She was married to John Cassavetes in 1954, and they stayed married until his death in 1989. Wow. They produced a lot of good work. They produced some very good children. They met at the Academy, the American Academy, at Carnegie Hall, where they were both students. And yeah, they went on to have three children, all directors. Nick, we mentioned Alexandra and Zoe. So I'll get into her career and we're really going to focus on the the Gena Rowlands films that her husband happened to direct. That's when she was in Johnny Staccato, which John was in. She was in Alfred Hitchcock Presents. Honestly, you go on her Wikipedia, the one who was in a lot of TV, one of my dad's favorite shows of all time, Peyton Place. He's watched the entire series. There's something like 800 episodes or something. I've watched it at least twice all the way through, has them all in like some bootleg DVDs. He loves them. She said that. So it was really funny. What I so like, my grandmother's been living with my dad and stepmom for a while. You know, she's getting older too. So when she kind of moved in, they were in the middle of their Peyton Place binge. And somehow I went over there. I was talking about, you know, Cassavetes and stuff, and my dad looks at my grandmother, he's talking about so-and-so said her name from from Peyton Place. So I was like, oh, wow, she's so good in that show. I've never seen that show. They're already like, that's a 50 show. She's really good that like, so they know her, her by character name. I'm like, yeah, see, she always had it. now when we move, when she moves to film. Small role in shadows. A bigger role in a movie. Cassavetes directed that he kind of wrote off A Child Is Waiting, but she really announces herself to us as Jeanie and faces 1968 John Cassavetes. Wow, I remember I'll never forget, like when you and I were talking about this movie and just talking about the party culture that's depicted in it, which was like two or 3 or 4 older, much older drunk guys, like getting 2 or 3 much younger women back to one apartment. And everyone's like smoking and drinking. I just saw that, Reese. I just rewatched the conversation, got to see the theater. They do that like when they bring these women back to, like, where he works. It's so sleazy, it's scuzzy. So. And she fits in the world so, so, so well. But I never thought about that until you really mentioned it. Now, when I see movies set in this era, I just see that all the time. And I'm like, what kind of party is this? Like, this is so weird. There's like five men fighting over like two women. I don't know, it's so creepy. But she's really good. I. Yes. A good movie is a really. She might not have the showy role in this. The show where your role goes. The married couple who is true big argument and who split up. Yeah, but she's still great as Jenny. Well, and I think that, you know, I've always said this about that movie. And I think one of the things you have to kind of like take into account with Gina Jenny's performance is, that that was a very taboo role. That was a very. Yes. You know, being a, I mean, a for lack of a prostitute or, an escort of some, some type of situation like that that was not seen, that was not, that was not really done then, and especially to give that level of empathy and compassion where you kind of you really I mean, she controls that whole entire room. She controls. Yes, exactly. And and she what we end up seeing, which is really cool, is like, she kind of lets her soul come out to this one guy and it ends up kind of going how it goes, but you kind of wonder, she probably doesn't do that a lot. This is just happens to be in this particular night, this particular situation, and it's great to see those walls come down. And her performance, and it's great to see the way she retreats when it doesn't necessarily go that way. And just those closeups I mean, Cassavetes was always one for those closeups. But, you know, a lot of these close ups are sloppy and a lot of this closeups are out of focus, out of focus. Shots give a shit. But yeah, yeah, he in his own way, he managed to capture the angelic close up with her in that movie, which is, I don't think, something he's ever really kind of duplicated again, not because of her, but just because in his work, like I agree, that was a choice. Yeah. And it's and she and she fills that frame. So beautifully in that movie in that way. Yeah. I mean she, she was a stunning woman. Let's. Yeah. Yeah. The way that her husband would you know the character she would play for her husband, they weren't necessarily he wasn't try to like, bring her beauty out. He's trying to bring out that emotional torture. Yeah. But yeah, she is. She's just beautiful. This. I was made a giant gets a village. He was a director. He an actor too. It's a wonderful acting. He started the independent movie here. Fortunately, we both had other careers. I was an actress. He was an actor. And when we ran out of money, which you always do with independent movies, we stop and go do another movie, earn some money and bring it in and put it in our movie. It's a tricky life, but it was so exciting and wonderful that you were doing what you really wanted to do. I think the most challenging her next one is Mindy and Moskowitz, which is a movie that's just so near and dear to my heart, 1971, directed by John. She's starring as many opposite Seymour Cosell, Seymour Cosell as Moskowitz, and oh My God, I, you. When I told you I was going on my Cassavetes, bench, you're like, I really need to get back to Minnie and Moskowitz. And it's just it's just so good. I actually haven't rewatched this one yet in my binge now I'm going to, like, save it a little bit. It's hard to find. Oh, you get the I it. That's what I was going to say. It's really a bummer. This is not one on the Criterion Collection. You know, husbands isn't even on criterion. I didn't realize that it's on the channel, but I don't believe it's part of the collection. Like you can't buy up, a husband's criterion Blu ray? No. It's weird. I don't know, really. No. Or Minnie or Moskowitz, I don't know. They have. They have for him. They have the box set with the five films. Yeah. And then they have Love Stream separately. That's it. And so, I don't know. There must be this one must be tied up in rights or something, but. Well, there's a lot of special features on the channel for husbands. Maybe. Maybe I'm wrong. Let me look it up. I'll look it up. You talk about Minnie and Moskowitz for a little bit, but yes, it is a little hard to find, which is a bummer. The, the. There's one scene in many in Moscow. It's that, I love so much with with her is when she's talking to her mom. It's a scene fairly in the beginning and in. And it's it's one of those scenes where it's two women talking about the, the tortures of being a woman. Oh, yeah. Yep, I remember that. And. Yeah. And, you know, again, 1971, these were not topics that were being discussed in film. And, and we should also say, like with all of these Cassavetes works, these were always like independent is independent cinema gets before it was really a thing. I mean he just to interject he is starring in movies. Rosemary's baby is the best version of it. That is not a paycheck movie. He's in that and he is sensational in that movie. But go look at John Cassavetes acting filmography. He's taking roles for money to fund these movies. That's it, because the studios did not help with Chase's production movies at all. He's like getting together, you know,$900,000 in 1971 to make Minnie Moskowitz. Yeah. And this is what Gena loved. She loved this process. I mean, there were stories so many times throughout almost all of his movies where they didn't have enough money to keep shooting, so they had to shut down production, go get jobs, scrape up more money, and then get everyone back and start it up again. And she talks so much about how that passion is what she loved. You know, you don't marry someone like John Cassavetes if, if you, if you don't want that too. And so it just as much as, you know, he's the pioneer for so much of this, she was the one right there with him and being in front of it all. She I mean, she starred in more of his movies than he did, I think. Yeah. And these were again, roles that were not going to women. These are so going all the way back to my initial point about Minnie and Moskowitz, the scene that I'm talking about with her, it's a scene. It just really expresses a woman's point of view in a time. Still, even today, we we fight to try to get that honesty. We tried we movies are still trying to get that out there. And this was happening 50 years ago now. My god. Yeah. And it hits just as relevant and just as poignant and just as real and honest as anything that you could hear today. And she is what brings that to life. And I love that scene. I love her in this movie. She's so good. Yeah, I can't wait to rewatch it. And that was all well said. And to go to clear up in a very important point here, husbands is indeed on the Criterion Collection. It's just not a part of that Cassavetes box set. Yeah, yeah, because I was like, there are a lot of special features on the channel. So yeah, they're all from that many. And Moskowitz is like, no, forget criterion. It's not even on the channel. You can't even steam it. I'm seeing there's DVDs for sale on Amazon for 23, but that looks like a British DVD. There's so yeah, hard to find. You can probably find it online. But this is I think, because of that, this one gets like, I've seen this up here in other movies, like it'll be playing in the background. I forget what the hell I just saw and this is playing in the background. Is it in good time? No, I don't know what the hell I saw it in. I saw some oh, like, it was playing like in the movie. It was like playing in the movie. And I'm going, oh, so this is like a deep cut. Cassavetes deep cut. Yeah. Gena Rowlands that. Yeah, I cannot I mean, both of us absolutely adore and yeah, you're right. Cassavetes of the movies he directed, he was in husbands opening night in Love Screams. That's it. Yeah. So he was in three and she was in. I'm not even going to count. A child is waiting. She was in phases. Minnie Moskowitz, woman Under the Influence. Opening night. Gloria in love streams. So yeah, she had a starring role in More move in his more movies in him for short, which takes us to oh my. Oh boy. I mean, we've yeah, we've talked about a lot. This movie is in my top ten of all time. It's 1974. A Woman Under the Influence where I said it in 2020. And I'll say it again, this I this is the finest acting performance I've ever seen in a movie. It's just it's and it's if, if there's if there's another one that is as good by a man, by a woman. I don't care than it is as good. I don't know. I mean, I'm talking DeNiro, Raging Bull, Daniel Day-Lewis and anything, Meryl Streep in anything. I mean, more recently, of course, I love Michael Fassbender in Shame, but what she achieves here is something that I do not think can be achieved in an accurate way by many people if it ever really has this degree. Like this movie. So important to me. So we find out the news that she has died. It's on the 14th, and Ali and I are sitting at home and we're just, you know, the night is ending. And I said, would you mind if I just put on because it's on HBO? I own the Blu ray, of course, because you gave it to me. She just, I can I put on one scene because she's, you know, Ali so bad, she's like, oh, this is she's your favorite, right. And that's your favorite director. And I'm like, yeah. So I put on the flip out scene. You know the five. I have five things to bring up. and for listeners like this is A Woman Under the Influence is not a movie. I would show my wife. It just it's too long. It's too emotionally brutal. It's just not it's not going to be a thing that I think she's going to get enjoyment out of. She was transfixed. Yeah. Her jaw was like open. And she's looking and she's like, is the whole movie like this? And I said, there. Yeah. Like kind of. And she gets there. So we're watching, you know, she's up and we're watching all that stuff and all the the moving in the Sheik. And Ali goes, I didn't even ask her if I could repeat this. She's just staring at it. And quietly she goes. I feel like that sometimes. Oh, I'm like, we all do. We all fucking feel crazy. We all want to like, flip out. Don't know how to express it. I'm like, that's that's the power of the movie. Like. And she kept asking me, what's wrong with her, what's wrong with her? She is. And I go, influence does not mean drugs. It does not mean alcohol, just means I don't know. She's off. Cassavetes didn't call her crazy. Like, I don't know. There's something said. I went back and I showed her the after the spaghetti sequence, like it's all the guys have left. And he's like, you know, yelling at her. Yeah. So. But now she wants to watch the whole movie. And she even was showing her those two scenes. She got it. And that is the power of this performance of this film. This film will always be, I mean, so important to me. It's one of the ten most important movies in my life, no question. Oh, Mabel, am I right now? I am I right, Nick? I'm. Out! Hey, hey, don't table. Get back up! Get back! I will be back. Back. Oh, I love you. Oh, I'll be down on a railroad track for you. If I made a mistake, which I did. I'm sorry, but. So what's the difference now? Relax. Come back to me, Nick. Relax and come back to me. Nick, I hear. I have one. Let me take a minute. Like I knew you couldn't let him. Just like I like. 000, I, I think I have to agree. I think we've even talked about this way back in November of 2020, where you can't look at what she does from start to finish in that movie. And it is it's just the best piece of acting that one could ever see. It's, it's not easy. You know, I've always talked about how, you know, Heath ledger and the Joker is is my favorite performance, and but there's so much of that that it's so different. So it's it's really you can't really compare it because of the creation is like one is kind of based and a lot of fun even though it's dark. But she goes to places in here that are not fun. They're it's the reason why the movie is so hard to watch is because this you're watching right before you, realities of the human condition happen that are, the worst to see. Yeah. And she does not shy away. She's not scared, to the point of hers being like, I couldn't do this as a play. Totally could. See why I think anyone who watches that movie would understand. Oh, yeah. You can't do this daily. Nightly. No way. And that's a testament to what she ends up putting on film. And you know, I think this is that movie where every actor talks about this movie or every this is my next point. Yeah, yeah, every any actor or director or filmmaker worth their salt. There is a reason why every single one of them say when this movie's brought up, it's a masterpiece. And that's one of the best acting performances ever. There's a reason why so many people say this. If you're saying anything about this performance is being overrated, then you're not, you need to, I don't know, see more movies or something. I don't know, because it's it's just. Yeah, it's just that good. So, yeah, that was my next point. There's a reason why they all say it. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's, it's it's perfectly rated. Perfectly rated. One of my favorite things to do is put on those, criterion closet picks because I love judging them and judging the judging. These are what they pick. And I'm like, you ever see someone just pick out, like, all American movies from the 90s or two? Thousands. And I'm going, all right, I got your number now. So I put on, Zoe Kravitz and Zoe Kravitz and Channing Tatum, and I put that on for Ali two, and I was like, watch. I love the judge, people. First fucking movie. She pulls down a woman under the influence and I went, oh, that's it. Like you, whatever you pick after that, if that's what you're pulling down as number one and saying, like, this is the bar, then, all right, you know what you're talking about. You, you do, you do. You. It's it is that movie. It it's that movie for whatever way you want to watch it, because, you watch it for the acting, but you watch it for just the creation of, like, this. Holy shit. How who made this scene? And. Yeah. And, yeah, even, our, our, our indie darling that we have championed for a long time now. Aubrey Plaza, huge. Yeah, yeah, she she's on the quest for this. This is what this is the type of work she wants to do. Yeah, exactly. Anyone worth their salt? Aubrey Plaza. It's like. I mean, yeah, we're her true North stars are Gena Rowlands and Ingmar Bergman. Like, she's been to Farrow. She's watched movies on Farrow Island and, like, in his screening room and done. Yeah, she's so I. I just love her. Her career is gone. Cannot wait for Megalopolis. Oh I know it's so excited. So excited. It's going to be ridiculous. It's going to be ridiculous. Speaking about stage, got to see Aubrey Plaza on stage. She was very good. And you know Gena Rowlands on stage. Here we go straight to opening night 1977 directed by John G. Starring here is Myrtle man, this this is the one. I think I even said this on our episode that I had seen the least. This is my last one that I got to because, I don't know, it just it's it's definitely more acclaimed as time goes by. Like people, it's another one people bring up and they're like, yeah, but it's it's really like one of the influence is great. But opening night, man, fuck, where is that thing come from here. And it's just it's really, really good. I'm only like 45 minutes into it right now. So I'm into where they're negotiating how hard Cassavetes can slap her on stage. She's staying down. But it's interesting. Cassavetes and her are scene partners and it's Ben Gazzara here who's the director of the play, and Myrtle's kind of like having a breakdown. And it's just it's so good. I'm. It was a hard movie to stop in the middle of because, you know, everything's like spinning. They're spinning out and just the goddamn these worlds the Cassavetes creates are incredible. She just drops right in. And this movie is about her. I mean, there's so much just when we're looking at her in the mirrors and you can see her reflection like four different areas. it's like the biggest testament to this movie about actors that doesn't feel indulgent. Like it does like even even though she has some of like these complaints that at one hand you'd only hear an actor say you never once dismiss it or roll your eyes. And if I don't roll my eyes then, then you've done it because I roll my eyes at actors all the time. Even more than like critiquing a professional, a movie based on professional wrestling. Movies about actors are very difficult for you. Then the meanest text you've ever sent me about a movie ever were The Disaster Artist. I never heard such vitriol come out of you via text form, and I'm not going to blow up the spot here, but I think you were. You were in like a pleasant state of mind when you sat down in that movie, you know, like, yeah, just alcohol wise, like you were feeling good. And I wake up and I was like, Holy shit. Like he fucking hated this segue. So yeah, if you're endorsing a movie about actors, it's it's good. It is. Yes. And and it's a very tough one for me to do because I, I yeah, it's it's. Yeah. Disastrous. Oh, God. I did not like that. nothing against the, the making of it. Well, I mean, hey, it's I mean, it's not, it's not a bad he's not exactly a fashionable actor director. Well, that's true, I mean, yeah. No. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah. We put those lenses on. well, but you were right before everyone else. I. I guess I don't know, like, I think I brought this up on the pod way back when, that I really loved it. Was that, again being taboo for the time? You know, Myrtle in that movie, she is a woman who is completely content with her life as that character of not being in a relationship, not wanting kids. You know, we're seeing more and more today that this is a this is becoming a, a, a very real and, and, and it's a very relevant choice now that women are choosing themselves over the idea that, oh, this is what a woman should do. Like, you have to have kids, you have to do this right. And this was in 1977. And it's not even fussed about it's not even like put on like, oh, we're making a movie about a woman who doesn't want these things. It just so happens to be who she is. And she just owns it in a very sort of like, cool, throwaway kind of way where she's like, oh, I don't care about any of that. And this is I'm an actor. This is what I do. Yeah, it's just something, again, that you just don't see female leads do at that time. Oh, Jenna. Yeah. And it's not because female leads the time couldn't do it. No, because they weren't given the opportunities. Do. Exactly. And that's why Cassavetes is making these shoestring budget movies with his friends. To give all of his friends these opportunities and his wife these these opportunities. Yeah, I love Betty Davis, and I do to this day. And what I liked about it was her independence. In those days, women were expected to be sweet and obedient, and that's just what I wasn't interested in. And Betty was always playing, you know, something that had a lot of bite to it. She's kind of was doing the feminist school stuff before it was a thing. Like she kind of paved the way a lot for these. These types of performances. And he did too. And this is what we talked about a lot on that episode, that some criticism that is very misguided criticism is that he's was this misogynist filmmaker, and he only made movies about men like he did that with husbands. Husbands feels just like a three hour documentary about three friends getting fucked up, I get it, but that is not his whole filmography. That's just that's a that's a very, very misguided read on John Cassavetes and the work that Gena did in them. So, yeah, they're very feminist portrayals. I mean, the next one, it's like, Jesus Christ, this one is a studio movie. Yeah. Gloria in 1980, he gets 4 million from Columbia. And they're. And, you know, they're like, do you would you do this? And he goes, yeah, if Gena could be in it. And this is just I don't even know why I started my Cassavetes Revenge with this one. I just wanted some easy just to, like, kind of tip my foot back in, because this is the most entertaining movie he made, I think. Yeah, at least that's what I said on the podcast. Like the easiest to digest. It is so fun. She's so good, and it just the way she shows up, like knocking on the door and the family is like, who is it? It's Gloria, you know. Of course she's smoking. And the relationship with the kid, it's just from start to end. I genuinely could not believe how fun of a time I was having in that shootout outside of that building with the cars just going around, I just kept rewinding it. It's just so funny. It's so good. Her way to take control. I love Gloria and I know you love this one. Gloria. Yes. You know, we're not interested in you. All we want is the book and the kid. Do you understand? Sure, boy. Why don't you take a walk? We'll take care. That kid. You get that? Book it. Come here. Frank. What are you going to do, shoot a six year old Puerto Rican kid on the street? You don't know nothing. He don't even speak English. By. The lot love it. I mean, it's a side of her that we don't ever see in any of the other roles where she is just a bad ass. This is like you don't. You wouldn't even think twice about messing with her like she's no, like, absolutely not. Like this is like, you're like, yes, ma'am. And I'm leaving right now. And but and it's also exuded with such charm to like you, you you fall in love with her, but you also like it. It's it's a it's crazy. Her range. It is like. Yeah. She's not she's playing someone who's so confident and smooth and is really thrown into protecting this child that. Yeah, the mob wouldn't mind getting their hands on because the mob iced out his entire family. And now Gloria's like, well, I'm going to kind of protect the kid. But then Gloria also has a former relationship with the head of this mob. So she's like, trying to get to the top just to talk to him, be like, you know, what's the big deal here? And no one better than Cassavetes could get us into those rooms with, like, the shady mob guys. I mean, Chinese Boogie did that so, so. Well, they're just talking about paperwork. You know? You're gonna sign this here. You can do this. And it's so fun to watch her in that world in some way. It's kind of like her Chinese bookie, but she's not. She's not. Doesn't have a mission to kill anyone. She has a mission to protect a child. And it's it's just so fun. It's endlessly rewatchable. Enjoyable movie. It is. Love it. Yep. I'm on a little tangent here. I'm on to. I'm always checking off directors and trying to, you know, knock them off. I don't necessarily put them all the movies together and go, I'm only watching, for instance, right now, Sidney Lumet movies, there are so many. There's like 50. So when I don't have anything to watch, I go, okay, let me pull up a Lumet. I haven't seen I never seen his 1999 film Gloria, which is a remake of this, and it stars Sharon Stone. I mean, it is fucking terrible, like it is terrible. And I everyone who loves movies love Sidney Lumet. Come on. Yeah. And I put on Letterboxd. I go, when you make 50 movies in 50 years, they are not all going to be hits. You're going to have some duds. But I have no idea why a movie like this exists. Like the first one was made 19 years earlier. She, the lead actress, was not. It was nominated for Oscars. Like it? Everyone loves it. And everything that. If you want to see how you can take the same material and you know the same character and get it gloriously wrong, yeah. I can't even recommend it. Like, don't do it if you anyone who was going to watch Lumet's Gloria, I'd go, please don't do that. Go watch Cassavetes. If you say you've already seen it, I'd say go watch it again because it's so good. But just like, baffling, baffling why it was made. Yeah. Sharon Stone, Sharon Stone's in a peak heiress. She just come off Basic Instinct Casino, which I love her in very, very bad. Like it's a bad movie. So anyway, I just wanted to mention that no one can out to Jetta. You can't? No. You can't. You like that? No. Yes. I she she is unremarkable. That is a, any performance that she's done. If you want to try and redo that you're not going to do it. It. We're going to get some wise ass in like 15 years. Some wise ass kid thinking he can redo a woman under. Oh, don't even put that out there. Don't even oh, I would, I don't think they'd be able to get the rights for it because it was all chance. He did it with all his own money. So Gloria was a studio movie. They probably got the studio rights to redo it. But what? I don't know if they thought they would make money off it. I don't, I don't know, weird weird to see that movie, you know, a titan, a legend. Lumet, who knows New York so well, it's not a good New York movie. And, you know, 99 is such a good year for movies. Wow. Big, big miss. Anyway, let's get in. Let's get into your number. Your is not your number one. You're solid. Number two. Two solid. My second favorite Cassavetes film is 1984 is Love Streams. This. I'll have to save this one now this will be my the last one I watch in my Cassavetes Rowlands rewatch here I, I yeah I adore this thing I this it's my favorite movie to also explore. There are so many amazing special features here. They're playing not lovers are playing brother and sister. So it's a very different dynamic between them. They are so in love, but in a very, you know, platonic way. There's and it's it's just so amazing to see them do that. She is, of course like an emotional mess in the movie. She played it so well and I love, love screams. I loved it so much more when I found out that Cassavetes was, he was sentenced to die because he had such bad liver disease and liver failure from a lifetime. Said a lot wrong with him. Lifetime of drinking, smoking. And he was not going to make it through the end of production. And, essentially he's like, well, if I'm going to die, I may as well die making a movie. And he ended up living for a few more years. He died in 1989. Love streams is 84, but he looks sick in it. His stomach, like his belly, was huge because his organs were so enlarged. This is as like, die hard, passionate filmmaking as you get to me. The man just didn't think he was going to make it and I love it. The ending is so, so beautiful. I mean, now that of course he's gone, but now that she's gone, I, I adore this film. I really, really want people. If we didn't motivate you in our Cassavetes episode four years ago to go check this out, this is another one that's hard to find. It is never streaming anywhere. It's never on the Criterion Channel. But it is a criterion film. It's in the collection. You can buy it if you want to blind buy it. That's what I did. Here's my promise. If you like John Cassavetes, if you like general, and do you like all the other movies we've talked about? You're going to love this. So if you just haven't seen it because it's hard to find, which was like me in 2020, you will love this, I promise. I'm not saying every fan of movies is going to love this. You got to love Cassavetes. You got to be a resident of Cassavetes Island. Yeah, to love this. And you will and I. Yeah, she's. I mean, it's just a great two hander between them. the New Beverly, Quentin Tarantino's one of Quentin Tarantino's theaters is playing Love Streams. a few dates at the end of August. Okay. Yeah. So by the time this episode comes out, the movie will be coming up at New Beverly. It'll be there August 29th and 30th. I can't believe he's playing it. I just love that this calendar was made before before Jenna passed away, so I love it. I mean, oh my God, this is one where Dan teases me all the fucking time. Friend of the pod Dan sends me movie showings in LA with Q and A's. He does it all the time because he's he's waiting for the right one to where I just fly out for that. Like I just fly for the screening. And this was New Bev, and it was like, hey, in honor of Miss Rowan's, her three children are presenting the film and and like some other people are going to show up. I'd be like, oh, fuck, I might have to, I don't know, it'd be something like that. But yeah, if you if people live in LA, they should definitely try to go to one of those states that in 35 millimeter film, it'll be amazing. It's going to be incredible. And it's a great way to I mean, it's it's one of the harder Cassavetes digesting wines. I think it might even be the hardest in some levels. I think a woman under the Influence is the toughest. That's the Hard Love Streams. It's like, yeah, you have to. You have to really kind of give in to the editing style and the bouncing around and what's going on. It's just about characters, that's all. You gotta care about the people. But it doesn't matter if you love Cassavetes or you're just trying to start, being able to see it in the movie theater like this. And this is not a movie that gets shown. So never if you if you can, I highly recommend that you check this out in LA. It's, Yeah. I'm it's it's such a good movie. God. All right. Those are the movies she was in for. John. I want to touch on a few other ones here, some that I don't. I mean, she wasn't so much. I. If you pull up her wiki or her IMDb, there's a lot. And there's just always something that's popping up, you know, here and there. Another woman, 1988, is a movie virtually no one talks about. No one has ever talked about it. It is a Woody Allen movie who I know a lot of people don't talk about anymore, but it's my favorite Woody Allen movie. No. Always has been. No. Again, no one ever talks about it. Yeah, I I've seen every Woody Allen movie. I watched them all in like 2012 and and in my binge I was like, where the fuck did this thing come from? It's 80 minutes. Gene Hackman, Gena Rowlands it's like, great. Like, I really love it. I love her, her sort of, she's a sort of detachment. I don't know, I've I've always really liked and I'm not trying to oversell it, like, I, I just really liked it. No one ever, ever, ever talks about this movie whenever I've, And I'm not even talking about political reasons, but I've never been a Woody Allen fan. I totally understand this is a heavy drama. This is not a comedy from him. I, I've always been more partial to his dramas. Interiors, I think is a really good movie. But yeah, it depends. So I mean, I'm willing to like, watch this just because I just want to see her. I just thought it was. Yeah, I thought it was. So, I don't know, like, kind of quietly profound. And this is, I think it's the first time in our history that we've or. No, you've recommended, you know, midnight in Paris, I this is probably. It's just night in Paris. Whatever we don't really talk about. it's just a movie that I. I've always been drawn to. Did not expect the kind of movie for Woody Allen to make. And I was like, Ian Holm is really good in it. Like, it's just it's a good movie, you know, Blythe Danner, Sandy Dennis. Yeah. Mia Farrow was the other female lead before they had their falling out. It's just it's really good, I don't know. All right, all right, all right. I'm sold. I'll let you take the next one if you want. in 1991. Yeah. She's a night at night on earth for Jim Jarmusch. She's Jim Jarmusch. I watched her section yesterday, just rewatched, and I thought it was great. It is. I mean, you mean I'm so impartial? Awe. I'm so partial because I love Jim Jarmusch so much. he actually, went on social media the day that Jenna passed and had a very nice, little remembrance quote that he wrote. She says, I didn't know that. I, you know, he had social media. We can do the Jarmusch part any time I'm waiting on you, I you gotta tell me you don't like them. I feel like you're not a Jarmusch guy. No. That's, Well, okay. Okay. No, no, no, I'm actually the perfect person to talk about it. No, I got the straight face. This would be really good to talk about. I just pulled up all of his movies. They're not that many. I go in, there's not really, really hard for the early ones. Basically everything up until Deadman, ghost Dog was a movie I saw once in college, and that movie I actively rejected Hear Me Out only because every single person in my life, including my older brother, was telling me that this was the best movie ever made, and I watch it. Oh, it's that was also my first Jarmusch. It was my first Jarmusch. And I was like, the hell is going on with this? So that's when I need to rewatch coffee and. And then after we clear Broken Flowers, there's some if you want. There are some ones that critics, by and large have it like audiences have it like. I think it makes for a good conversation. I think he's made some truly mesmerizing movies and some ones that you're like, That his most critically derided, The Dead Don't Die. I thought it was like, really funny at parts, and I actually really like that. No. Yeah, my dad loved it, like, I it was so silly and dumb and so meta. So no, I'm ready for a Jarmusch part any time. Well, I mean I mean I'm game, all right. I mean, we already have our next director picked, which I teased on Twitter, but. Well, the only the only reason I haven't really pushed him was just because I thought he wasn't your favorite cup of tea, and I was like, oh, maybe we don't need to do it. I don't love him as much as you, but that's why I think it would make for a good episode, because I'm always the one fucking flipping out. So we'll talk. That would probably be a 2025 project. So what do you think of Night on Earth? Oh, back to back. Take it back. Take us back. I don't know how you describe that movie. It's just basically a bunch of scenes in different taxis all throughout the planet. Different cities. Yeah, exactly. And Jenna plays herself in it. or a version like she. She's playing a movie star. Yeah, she's like a Hollywood star. Exactly. Yeah. Thing. Yeah. Very. Lands in a private plane, that type of thing. Yeah. And, and what we get is just, it's it's probably one of the scenes that hits the most throughout that movie. And, if not, I like the Roberto Benigni one. I think that one hits the best. Oh, yeah. But I would give this one the right up there and, and just her composure and just her, you know, the way that this conversation between her and Winona Ryder go is just, it's lovely. And, it's so 90s. It's just screams the that weird, independent, artsy stuff. And, she fits right into that world, even. And I think that's just even going back to the way that she said about indie movies like this is what she's most passionate about. And even though she's playing a, a, a person in a, in a position of power, it fits in the tone of the movie. And she, she's able to grasp what that is. And, or is what everyone says now she understands the assignment. The assignment? I think we've been, accused of. we definitely said that a few times. We're royalty, if that. It's what I was trying to say. yeah. To talk about her segment a little, so, like, I put this on, and I think I was just too young for, like, to appreciate Winona Ryder when it was happening, watching a movie from 1991, Winona Ryder, smoking like it's just great. It's so good. I love seeing her in that time and place. It's so I was I was really it's we are getting to the age and the time period where the 90s are historic, and seeing it a movie set in 91 is nostalgic and I'm like, goddamn, I go on, read it, and it's like, this is what a classroom, a high school classroom looks like. In 2004, it I was like, come on, man, it wasn't that long ago I was there. I was there. What the hell? It's not the 70s, but, yeah, it's, it's happening. It's. I, recently had a conversation before my second viewing of Long Legs with two, 25 year old women at an Alamo is having a beer, and they're talking to me, and they're they're getting ready to see the movie two, and they're like, well, would you or would you compare it to. And I started naming movies from, 60s and 70s. I was like, you know, his son, the director of this, his dad was actually the star psycho, and they had no idea what psycho was that just not, not, and and so I went to the 70s and they did not know any movie I was talking about. Never heard of Taxi Driver. And so I just kept going up and I was like, how about The Silence of the lambs or seven? And they're like, oh, yeah, we've heard those. Oh, that's right. And they were like the Hannibal Lecter one. And I went, yeah, so that we are at a place where like my references where I'm going, oh yeah. Like, people think Taxi Driver is like fucking ancient. Ancient. They think it is an ancient movie. Well, I mean, the movies that we're it's all the movies that we're talking about. Our ancients. I know, but I just don't think that people are like, do I think an old movie is from, like, the 40s and 50s? I don't even think like 70s movies are old. I don't know, it was, but it was so jarring to me to see that and be like, wow, I, I remember that time and place. So well. Just the Winona Ryder of it. All of it just took me back. It was great for a rewatch. I had a great time. I think there's an argument to be made that throughout the late 80s, early to mid 90s, Winona Ryder was the 90s girl. Oh yeah, oh yeah, the Heathers like I mean everything. Yeah. Reality bites I mean like that says her hair style. Like she was the girl for that. And and then when it wasn't time for that girl there was no more time went on it. It's crazy. It just. I mean, and then she played that part so well in Black Swan. She's essentially like, playing herself as an actress. I mean, she's playing a ballerina in that. But that is what happened to her that they went, Boop, you're you're done. And that's why, you know, these TV shows, these streaming shows may not be for me. I've talked about this a lot. Stranger Things, it's not for me, but the fact that a lot of these shows give a second, third, fourth life to these performers. Yes, I love it. I fucking love it. It's a I can't. Yeah. So the show may not be for me, but the fact that she is in what is probably one of the most popular shows in the world right now, I think, you know, I think that's true is awesome. Yes. It's awesome, I love fun, I think she's great. Yeah. All right, back to Jenna. Well, we'll move a little quickly. She's in. She's so lovely. 1997, directed by her son Nick. Hysterical blindness, good HBO movie from 2003, directed by Mira Nair. She won an Emmy for that, actually. Oh, she's in the notebook, as we had already suggested. Is older Ali. She's in a segment of Parrhesia ten with Ben Gazzara that I, I just love the way they are together. I love that when I went to Paris, I went to a few locations from not this scene in particular, but just the whole film and, that, that whole movies had always had such a special place in my heart. But seeing this, I. Yeah, it just it just does. It's so, like magical. And seeing them together of these old, you know, costars. But they're playing like old lovers. I just love it, I love it, I, I need to rewatch that scene because I when I first saw them, I was not I was not aware of that history. Right, right. And I remember loving that scene and but then just being like, oh, but wait, now I understand what the more like the but underneath what it means. Yeah. All right. That's, that's, that's on the docket after this episode. Definitely. And then her final performance that I want to bring up, she was in this movie Broken English in 2007, starring Parker Posey, directed by her daughter Zoe. And that movie is a masterpiece because it uses M83 very well, and any movie that uses M83 very well is a masterpiece. I always love that movie. Nominated for two Oscars, Genoa's Best Actress 1974. For A Woman Under the Influence, she lost to Ellen Burstyn for Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore is not the way I would have taken it, but I would have given Burstyn the Oscar the year before for a little movie called The Exorcist, which Nick has seen. But, you know, since, I think this was kind of like an Oscar. The axis is about, it's so fucking good. There's like this boxer, right? This is a boxing match. Yeah. And she meets this old guy. Yeah. And then he like. Yeah. Fucking asshole. Best actress 1980 Gloria lost to Sissy Spacek in Coal Miner's Daughter, which is a good movie and a good performance. Honestly, I don't know if Gloria, I just like this. She was nominated. And as we said in the Cassavetes episode, it was wild that A Woman Under the Influence was nominated for anything like it. Yeah, crazy, because it was such a small movie. She won three Emmys. She won two Golden Globes, she had three children with John. Nick Cassavetes first popped up as an actor in things like Face Off. Yeah, no more drugs for that man. He's the bald guy in The Hangover two. I think he's bald, right? He's like hardcore. He has a cameo in entourage. He co-wrote blow. That's what I was going to say. He sure did. Great movie. That's what it is. Directed nine films. She's so lovely. John Q with Denzel, The Notebook, Alpha Dog, My Sister's Keeper, The Other Woman, and God Is a bullet that is like 2.5 hours long. It just came just came out that I haven't seen. And then he directed this extremely controversial, extremely notorious movie, yellow that has never seen the light of day. Oh, I don't know, I don't know. It premiered at some festivals. I, I think he got a little I don't know I don't know what it is. It makes for a very interesting like you to not you to Google deep dive if you want to. And I mean this movie does not exist. It's not anywhere. Everywhere I looked, I've looked at all the places it has. It's not there. I've engaged friends to look for me, who know how to look, and all the little holes. It just doesn't exist. That's so weird. So you you you look for a hitman, but they don't exist. I don't need to look for one of those. I just have a few. My Rolodex. And any given time that I can acquire hashtag hitman exist really quick. yeah. I mean, a complete side quest, but, Oh, boy. My stepdad had an opinion on that comment from, hitman. How how we both have that issue about hitman don't exist. I would love to hear it. He he he took that as not the organized crime hitman that we were like, of course this happens. He he he kind of made it into where it's like in your home town, there is someone that you can just find that will do this and it. But and so eliminating the idea of hitman versus hired assassin. Sure. It's a very yes, an important distinction. I tried to hone in on that on the hitman part, if I could, and I know some of the examples we used are hired assassin De Niro in The Irishman is a hired assassin. He works for the mob. That Iceman guy that I talked about, I get it, I get it. That movie posits that there is simply no one in the world. Yes, that you can. That I can take a $10 million bearer bonds to and go, hey, I want you to kill someone like that. That's nonsense. That's fucking nonsense. As we said, they're not in the phone book. They're not on that. They are on Google in some fashion or another at some corner of the internet. I bet you can. I don't know, I've listened to enough true crime podcasts where I've heard hitman B be hired. That did not work for the mob. I've just that was, I don't know, one of the oddest flexes and a major movie that I've ever seen. And if whatever. See, it's trying to get me fucking riled up again. And to to your step dad's point in that little montage that they show the movie montage, those aren't all hired assassins. Some of those are just good old fashioned hitman. And it wasn't just in the movie. They've been saying this all on the press circuit. That hitman don't exist. Fucking baffling to me. I don't know whatever. back to Jenna, child number two, Zoe Cassavetes, who directed Broken English, as I said. And then this is weird. This Yan Zan, it's X and Zan Yan. Alexandra Cassavetes directed one film. This really fucking cool movie that I never seen, that I just watched like a month ago before we got the sad news called kiss of the damned, released in 2012. It's a modern vampire movie. I don't know, like to a lot. Remember, like I told you about an actress who is in, Fat Girl and then Sex is Comedy by that actress, by the director Catherine Brealey, where she, like, redid the awkward sex scene from Fat Girl. That actress is in kiss of the damned, and I never seen her in an English speaking part. So it is not a perfect movie, but I don't know, I liked it, I thought it was. I thought it was good. It's on like Pluto right now or something. That's how I saw it. So everything's on Pluto. Everything's on to be taboo. I don't have as good of experience with, but between the two of them you can cover a lot of ground. And I mean, we just we just, like, skimmed over her other roles. Jenna. I mean, she was in so much, so much TV, so many film parts, the latter part of her life. And yeah, it is not. This isn't necessarily a tragedy. It's just, cycle life. We've lost her. And we're always going to, as I put on Twitter, which no one liked, but as I put on Twitter, we will miss Jenna dearly, but we're always going to have Mable Myrtle, we're always going to have these characters. And maybe this is the absolute perfect time for people that have never seen her work to dive into it and see what she was trailblazing a long, long time ago. And I think it hits even harder. All of her performances today as a woman and as a as a as a as a lead at that time. So like, she, she really is she is that goat term is thrown around so much and it's become very cavalier. But I really believe that it's so weird because people say like there's like multiple goats, which defeats the whole entire purpose. Yeah, but either she is the one and only goat or she is 100% cemented her legacy as one of the goats. Yeah. Yes. It's like she delivered enough performances that are in the lexicon that are all timers. Words like so we talk about Betty Davis was a huge influence on her. She loved Betty Davis. When you go watch Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, you someone can watch it and be like, wow, that, you know, Betty Davis is really going for it in that. But that movie's just in the lexicon. It's in infamy because it's so good. She is so good in it, and iconic. And that's where that's where Mabel is going to live forever. A woman under the influence will just always live there, whether it's appreciated by every person who watches it, I don't know. But like we said, there's a reason that all these people who know a lot about movies and a lot about this art form go back to that. And when it is brought up in conversation, it's honestly it's usually just like shrugged off, like, well, yeah, there's I mean, of course in woman like, of course that's general. It's like, you can't, you can't say anything about that one. It's like how people say it. It's like when DDL gets mentioned some time, they're like, I'm not talking about the DDL thing. Like obviously that's like the best to do it. It's just funny. It's a different bar to me. And I think that does bring us to what are you watching where I wanted to kind of recommend a movie of hers to people. And, you know, I think there is an obvious answer here. Yeah. And a woman under the influence, perhaps. And that is what I would say. But if, you know, we've also talked about how that that movie is challenging and it is I don't want to I never want to steer people in the wrong direction. We've talked about how love streams, like, does kind of have a challenging narrative, and it does. So I would honestly recommend Gloria. That's what I want people to go watch. I want people to go watch Gloria and go see what she's doing in it, because it's a very easy movie to watch. It's very entertaining. It's a studio movie. It moves to New York. It's all good. Go watch that. And my recommendation is really for any listeners made it this far who has who's only seen The Notebook. Like that's the only thing in general. And they've seen it, which is fine. That's fine. I'm not I'm not besmirching you at all. Go start with Gloria if you want to, like, dip your toe in. You're going to love her in it. You will love her in it. And then after that, go into something a little bigger. Try, woman. Try opening night. Try. I love streams faces. But I think maybe, you know, these are hard films. Like, there are hard movies to take to Cassavetes movies. So that's just my advice. If you want to go right in and you've never seen a woman under the influence like my wife has, it no better time than the present. You're going to. You will be flawed. You will be knocked on your ass. Yeah. Solid, bro, I like that. And you? I next I'm going to. I'm I and I went first. Yeah I know and you've ruined my whole thing. Oh yeah. Because I was going to say everything you just said. But I'm going to do what a professional does in this situation. I'm going to pivot and I'm going to roll with it because the avalanche is fallen. The rocks are on me and I got to move. The love is streaming. Yeah, the love is streaming hard. I'm going to recommend opening night. Good. Because yeah. So this is one where it's like, yes, that Gloria is your intro. And then if you and if a woman are the influence of course that is, that is the, that is the, that is the all timer. That is, that is, that is the whole thing. But then if you want one of those ones that sneaks in that you don't know about that, you're like, what the hell is this? And how come nobody else knows about it? I think opening night is that for her performance in it? Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird movie. It's hard. It's going to take you to certain places. But if you follow the ride with her. Oh, man, you get a payoff. So you get up. You get a payoff with every Cassavetes movie. But I think this is a this is a good deep cut to get into for her. Yeah. You can find it on criterion. Maybe. Maybe it's somewhere else as well. But definitely check it out. I forgot it just starts. I mean it's like, oh yeah, it's Chinese, but just starts and I, I remember going, I was thinking, this is literally yesterday. Oh wait, wait a minute. This is how it starts. And then the credits are a little later. Just fooled me again. So yeah, yeah. Check out a General Allen's movie. Please let us know what you're watching at Wawa Underscore podcast. We love her. We miss her. We're always going to have these characters. So as always everyone, thanks so much for listening and happy watching. Thank you Jenna. And you know when you feel loved you're liable to do some of your better work. I love movies because I love the variety of how many lives you could lead. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex withrow.com. nicholas.com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at WABE underscore podcast. Shout out to the Academy for that great interview with Jenna that I borrowed for this episode. Next time is waves Trey Edward Schultz's waves. Really excited to share this episode with everyone. Stay tuned.