Over Here, Over There
A comparative culture podcast including panel discussions, interviews, short clips and monologues with leading professionals and commentators from around the world discussing how we see others and others see us.
Over Here, Over There
Rochester, New York's Hidden Culinary Gem: The Garbage Plate
Summary
In this episode of 'Over Here Over There', Dan Harris and Claudia Koestler explore Rochester, New York, highlighting its vibrant culture and unique culinary offerings, particularly the famous Garbage Plate. Joined by local food expert Adam Wilcox and dogTown restaurant owner Fran Basile, they delve into the history, variations, and significance of this iconic dish, as well as the diverse clientele of Dogtown, a popular canine-inspired restaurant. The conversation touches on the evolution of local cuisine, the importance of community in food culture, and the future of the Garbage Plate in a changing culinary landscape.
(Before going to Niagara Falls, this episode was filmed and recorded in Rochester, NY, a few weeks after the US Presidential election. Still, enjoy discovering the delights of that wonderfully named 'The Garbage Plate'. For the video version, go to our YouTube channel (insert link)).
Takeaways
- Rochester is a vibrant city with a rich art scene.
- The Garbage Plate is a unique local dish with historical roots.
- Dogtown offers a high-quality take on classic hot dogs.
- The Garbage Plate originated as a late-night food for college students.
- Variations of the Garbage Plate include vegan options and different toppings.
- The dish has evolved over time, reflecting local tastes and trends.
- Dogtown attracts a diverse clientele, showcasing the community's inclusivity.
- The future of the Garbage Plate seems secure despite culinary trends.
- The importance of quality ingredients is emphasized in local cuisine.
- Food culture in Rochester is a blend of tradition and innovation.
More info:
dogTown Restaurant
Hosts: Claudia Koestler and Dan Harris
Guests: Adam Wilcox and Fran Basile
Cameraman: Andrew Harris
Sound Bites
- "It's a lot of food for one person."
- "We have a vegan plate here."
- "It's going to be around forever."
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Dan Harris (00:03)
Welcome to Over Here Over There, podcast about how we see others and how others see us. I'm Dan Harris. I'm here with my podcast colleague, Claudia Koestler , and we're here in Upstate New York, specifically Rochester, New York. And I've been playing tour guide with Claudia. Claudia has not been up in upstate New York ever. And we're here in Rochester. I just want to, before we begin, what's your impressions of Rochester?
Claudia Koestler
Pleasantly surprised. I mean, people are very friendly. We were very lucky with the weather, but also it is a vibrant city and a vibrant art scene here that has pleasantly surprised me. So, it is kind of a gem actually to be discovered. So if you haven't been here, come here.
Dan Harris
Rochester the gem. That's fantastic. I'm sure they'll be pleased in the city hall to hear that. So, we came up from Philly after the elections. And you know what? We want to forget about the elections from that and concentrate on something much more important, something really unique, unique to this area. That is really none other than the garbage plate, which we talked about in a previous episode. And we talked about that with, I'd say an expert on the garbage plate. He's a Renaissance man, a musician, a former CEO, and a food writer. He knows all the trendy cuisines and everything you need to know about food in upstate New York. And that is none other than Adam Wilcox. Adam.
Adam Wilcox
Well, hi. Nice to be here with you.
Claudia Koestler
Thank you for having us.
Adam Wilcox
Anytime
Claudia Koestler
Wonderful. Adam, where exactly are we here? Could you tell me about the establishment?
Adam Wilcox
Yeah, we're at Dogtown, where the best hot dogs live. Yes. So Dogtown is an example of what I would call high-end, low-end food, which I kind of thought was going to be a trend when they opened 15 or so years ago. It's not really a trend. It did not turn out to be a trend. Most low end is low end, high end is high end, but this place, they do kind of food for the people, but they do everything really well. So I love this place.
Claudia Koestler
Wonderful
Dan Harris
Unlike the election where we heard about eating dogs and cats, this has nothing to do with that. This is a popular scene restaurant in Rochester.
Adam Wilcox
When we say dog town, we mean hot dogs,
Dan Harris
Right. Hot dogs.
Adam Wilcox
Which Europeans may see as sausage or wiener or saucisses if you're French, right?
Claudia Koestler
Right
Dan Harris
OK, well it's it's an honour of our canine friends, right? So, anyways, but we're going to check out the garbage plate and let's go inside right now.
(Inside dogTown restaurant)
And here we are inside now Dogtown and we're the owner, Fran Basile. Fran, you've been a real staple of the Rochester cuisine scene. How long have you been here and just tell us a little bit of history behind the restaurant.
Fran Basile
We'll be here 20 years in November. So we started in 2005 and we kind of put together a place that had hot dogs from all over the United States really. Hot dogs are very regional. So, we took a Kansas City version, took a New York version, we took versions from Cincinnati, we put them all together in one place and that's how it started.
Dan Harris
And how important is the garbage plate to Dogtown R#restaurant?
Fran Basile
Well, it's important financially because you know we sell quite a few of them and it's a draw from all over the place.
Dan Harris
It's one of your big, big, big offerings here.
Fran Basile
Yes. Yes. It started with late night. We used to be open to 3 a.m. Lot of kids after the bars, which is how the garbage plate really started.
Claudia Koestler
Well, we have the very same thing here, the garbage plate. So, Fran and Adam, what exactly is that? What is a garbage plate?
Adam Wilcox
Well, in this case, the garbage plate is centered around hot dogs. Are these white hots, Fran?
Fran Basile
Yes. Yeah, white hots.
Adam Wilcox
Carefully browned, blackened, I would say, in this instance, which is the way I like them. And those are on top of two sides that you get to choose. In this case, we have. Deep-fried home fries, do you deep fry the home fries? Which is how you get them all crispy, right? Yep. And then always cold, cold, cold, Mac salad, macaroni salad. Very, very American thing there.
Do you have that where you are?
Claudia Koestler
Not really. No. .
Adam Wilcox
No. No. You Germans.
Claudia Koestler
What do we know.
Adam Wilcox
And then the thing that I think is most distinctively Rochester about the plate is the sauce. Right? Right. And I don't know exactly how far back that sauce.
Fran Basile
That goes back to Greek immigrants who put it all together and put it on hot dogs.
Adam Basile
Yeah. historically here in Rochester, the garbage plate is associated with a place called Nick Tahoe's.
Fran Basile
Actually, we're not supposed to use that term because they do have that trademark. So right. Yeah. It started with Nick Tahoe. And what they did is they had a plate that was called Hots and Hots and Potatoes, which they used to call Hots and Patots. All it was was hot dogs, two hot dogs like this on some sides. But as it progressed, the kids would come in late at night after college as they were drunk and they would say, just give me that plate with all the garbage on it. And that's how it became, it was never even on the menu as a garbage plate. Later they added cheeseburgers because the kids wanted cheeseburgers and that's actually become like the staple now, a cheeseburger place.
Adam Wilcox
You sell more with cheeseburgers?
Fran Basile
Yes, we sell more with cheeseburgers right now.
Adam Wilcox
People are stupid.
Fran Basile
I I think so. think it's better with hot dogs.
Adam Wilcox
Well, hot dogs have more flavor, I think, personally. But the garbage plate, yeah that was the 80s, but the phenomenon goes back to 1918. Apparently, that's when Tahoe first opened. Although they weren't called Nick Tahoe's. That was just his Dad, think. Yeah. was Nick's dad. And then in the, like we said, in the 80s they named it. In the 90s they trademarked it. And now everybody makes them around here.
Fran Wilcox
Yes.
Fran Basile
Yes, everyone makes them now. But they have different names. Correct.
Adam Wilcox
Yeah. So how'd you come on Junkyard plate?
Fran Basile
Well, everything was dog-themed if you look around here. Junkyard dogs. All the dogs are named after dogs. We've got the golden retriever, St. Bernard,
Adam Wilcox
Bernice Mountain Dog
Fran Basile
And so all these people brought in pictures of their dogs and we put them on the walls.
Dan Harris
How much of a source of pride is it to Rochester, whether it's the garbage plate, the Junkyard plate?
Fran Basile
Well, actually, Adam pointed out that we do have White Hots in this case, which are a Rochester thing.
Adam Wilcox
Close to a bratwurst.
Fran Basile
Yeah, it's like a bratwurst.
Adam Wilcox
Although that's probably sacrilege to a German.
Claudia Koestler
I know. We're curious about variations.
Fran Basile
Well, Germans don’t cut them open and then grill them.
Adam Wilcox
But it is Germans in Rochester who created the White Hot.
Dan Harris
What kind of legs do you think it has as far as going beyond Upstate and else? Because we have the Philly cheeseburger, the buffalo wings.
Fran Basile
I don't know. I don't know. I know that someone's trying to do it in Los Angeles and they have a food truck and I don't know how it's going.
Adam Wilcox
My sense is it's not going to travel.
Dan Harris
Why is that, Adam? Why is that?
Adam Wilcox
It's partly the name, right?
Fran Basile
I don't know.
Adam Wilcox
I had to be convinced when I moved to Rochester. People were like, oh, you got to have a garbage plate. I was like, yeah, no thanks.
Fran Basile
Yeah, I know.
Claudia Koestler
Actually the size of it is quite substantial, isn’t it? I mean, is it meant for sharing?
Adam Wilcox
No!
Fran Basile
It's a lot of food for one person.
Adam Wilcox
But nobody shares their garbage place.
Fran Basile
No, not really.
Adam Wilcox
It's a you get your garbage plate. You're really hungry. Maybe you're drunk. I don't know. And you're just like, that's mine. My garbage plate. Don't touch it.
Dan Harris
It was meant for late night eating originally, but now it's moved mainstream.
Fran Basile
Correct. Exactly.
Adam Wilcox
See, I think when I first encountered it was in college after going to shows in Rochester. We go out after and go to get sees.
Fran Basile
Yeah. And I think they had them. Yeah.
Adam Wilcox
Or a version of them. Yeah, they had. Yeah. Another Greek diner.
Fran Basile
Yeah. A lot of Greek diners.
Adam Wilcox
A lot of Greek diners. Now they're all Vietnamese. Why is that?
Fran Basile
I don't know. Newer immigrants.
Adam Wilcox
Newer immigrants. That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
Claudia Koestler
But with all those new trends, are there many variations to it? Like, is there also a vegan option?
Fran Basile
Sure. We have a vegan plate here. There's also variations with the toppings. People put sauteed mushrooms, onions, all different stuff, all different things on them.
Adam Wilcox
But personally, if you saute those onions, it ain't right. It ain't right. You got to the sharpness of the fresh onions.
Fran Basile
Plus, there's different sides you can have. Baked beans, coleslaw.
Adam Wilcox
So, when you decided to do this, Fran, how did you develop your version of the meat sauce? What were you thinking about when you did that?
Fran Basile
Well, that's a good question. We just experimented, using all different spices and coming up with something that wasn't too hot. It's also cleaner. We use like 80-20 ground beef. In lot of these places, we what's called a hot sauce blend, is 70-30. It's a lot of fat.
Adam Wilcox
That's why there's a pool of grease there. You don't have the pool of grease. No, no grease. That's one of the reasons I like this.
Dan Harris
I think this is quite advanced conversation for a lot of people here. Can you just go back a few steps and say, so what are the basic elements that you'd say that define a garbage plate?
Fran Basile
The basic one is potatoes like Adam was saying, and mac salad, macaroni salad, then your protein, which is usually cheeseburgers or hot dogs, and then the meat sauce.
That's it.
Dan Harris
So, it has protein in it, that's good to know. That's great. And you can do it all like Claudia asked, variations in style with vegan and stuff like that. So, you make it up, you specialize it, it becomes yours within your restaurant.
Fran Basile
They're all a little bit different.
Adam Wilcox
The sauce. The story with Nick Tahoe's goes that he had a neighbour who was Mexican and that it was actually a Mexican recipe that he adopted and put Greek spices in. Greeks and the Mexicans share a lot of spices, particularly oregano is really strong in both. I assume you've got a bit of oregano in
Fran Basile
Yeah, that could be true. I mean,
Fran Basile
The Greeks will claim could also be bullshit.
Adam Wilcox
Yeah, the Greeks claim they've been doing this for a long time.
Fran Basile
The Greeks claim everything.
Adam Basile
Yeah, that's true.
Adam Wilcox
So do the Lebanese, they claim everything also.
Fran Basile
I'm Italian. We’re responsible for everything.
Adam Wilcox
I see. Yeah, that's good. But I would say your meat sauce to me, the things that characterize it, why I like it is it's not greasy. One. I taste the spices, but it's not that hot.
Fran Basile
No, it's really not. It’s really not.
Adam Wilcox
Some places make a fairly hot meat sauce.
Fran Wilcox
Yeah, it's really not that hot.
Adam Wilcox
And when you order it, in some places you'll ask for hot sauce, and that's what you get.
Fran Basile
Yeah, that is all called, it is called hot sauce.
Right. It's not that hot.
Dan
So what do you think the future of the garbage plate is? Does it have a future? Will it? Is this just a trend?
Fran Basile
It's going be around forever. Yeah, yeah. It's been around. It's going to be around forever.
Adam Wilcox
How many of these do you sell a day?
Fran Basile
Oh, I don't know. Probably 100.
Dan Harris
100!
Fran Basile
That's a rough guess.
Dan Harris
This is like a cash cow in a way.
Fran Basile
Well, it's a cow. Or it could be a pig, yeah.
Claudia Koestler
Or it's a vegan option.
Fran Basile
Yeah, or it's a vegan option.
Adam Wilcox
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I would say one of reasons... We come here for a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons we come here is that Anne, my wife, is...really cares about like what she puts in her body and she likes the vegan option. She thinks you guys make the best veggie burgers around. You guys like rotate the type of veggie burgers.
Fran Basile
Well we have now we have every Thursday we have a vegan deal.
Adam Wilcox
Yeah.
Fran Wilcox
It used to be a veggie deal. You know when we started in business we were one of the only places that had vegetarian food in Rochester. We kind of mixed vegan vegetarian food in with hot dog. Right. And so it's
It covers all different types of people.
Adam Wilcox
Yeah. you have a, I would say, it seems to me you have a really young clientele here. Lots of young people.
Fran Basile
I'll have to say that this is the most diverse restaurant I've ever been into in my life. Yeah. Two years old, 100, black, white, Hispanic, college kids, millionaires, street people. mean, just any vegan, vegetarians, meat, we cover everybody.
Adam Wilcox
Yeah. Well, it's good product. It's consistent.
Fran Basile
That's the whole thing.
Dan Harris
Sounds like a winning proposition with the demographics go across everything.
Fran Basile
Yeah, goes across everything.
Adam Wilcox
Yeah, so... Well, I'm generally in the habit of ordering plates wherever I go with french fries. The reason I do it is because most places can't get the home fries crisp. But you get the home fries crisp.
Fran Basile
A lot of them do it on a grill.
Dan Harris
He's such a connoisseur. He's such a connoisseur. Whatever. Wow, well great. Well thank you two very much.
Claudia Koestler
Absolutely, I mean the smell is very intriguing. So we'll dig in.
Dan Harris
So Fran Basile, Adam Wilcox, Claudine, I want to say thank you very much for inviting us into your restaurant. Great. And you can catch us on overhereoverthere.org and please subscribe and tell all your friends about the podcast. And we'll be probably moving on to Niagara Falls after this, I think.
Claudia Koestler
I think so, too.
Dan Harris
And talking about the borders and immigration. But stay tuned and we'll see you very soon on another unmissable episode of Over Here, Over There.
End