Act One Podcast
Act One Podcast
Director Andrew Erwin
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Act One Podcast - Episode 24 - Interview with Director, Andrew Erwin.
Andrew and his brother Jon are the filmmaking team known by most as the Erwin Brothers. The Alabama born brothers grew up around college football and entertainment. Their father, a local news anchor introduced them to the television industry at a young age. As teenagers they began their career in sports television with ESPN as camera operators. After several years working in sports they transitioned into directing music videos and documentaries. In 2011, they released their first feature film, OCTOBER BABY, followed by MOM'S NIGHT OUT in 2014, and WOODLAWN in 2015. Their breakout film, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE, was released in 2018. Its success led to the creation of their production company, Kingdom Story Company, and an overall deal with Lionsgate to distribute their films. Their newest film, AMERICAN UNDERDOG, is the true story of NFL quarterback, Kurt Warner, who went from stocking shelves at a supermarket to becoming an NFL MVP and Hall of Famer.
The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.
Authenticity of chasing quality to service story, absolutely, Christians need to get better at that. Authenticity of trying to chase approval, man, you're gonna die in the chasm every time because there's this chasm between the audience you serve and mainstream culture. And now you're trying to say we're just as cool as Transformers or anything else like that, and you've rejected your audience by telling them they're not cool enough for you, and you end up dying friendless in the chasm. The key is to serve an audience, to make enough noise with them, to make a quality enough product with them that they make enough noise that crosses the chasm. And mainstream culture is like, what's all this noise about?
James Duke:You are listening to the Act One podcast. I'm your host, James Duke. Thanks for listening. If you enjoy what you hear, please don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and leave us to go with you. My guest today is filmmaker Andrew Irwin. Andrew and his brother John are the filmmaking team known by most as the Irwin brothers. The Alabama-born brothers grew up around college football and entertainment. Their father, a local newsmaker, introduced them to the television industry at a young age. As teenagers, they began their career in sports television with ESPN as camera operators. After several years working in sports, they transitioned into directing music videos and documentaries. In 2011, they released their first feature film, October Baby, followed by Mom's Night Out in 2014, and Woodline in 2015. Their breakout film, I Can Only Imagine, was released in 2018. Its success led to the creation of their production company, Kingdom Story Company, and an overall deal with Lionsgate to distribute their films. Their latest film, American Underdog, is the true story of NFL quarterback Kurt Warner, who went from stocking shelves at a supermarket to becoming an NFL MVP in a Hall of Famer. The film is in theaters on Christmas Day, so go check it out and take the whole thing. Andrew is a thoughtful guy with a fascinating story. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Andrew Irwin, thank you so much for joining the Act One podcast today. It's nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's nice to meet you too. We got so many mutual friends. It's good to kind of finally connect the dots and and kind of have a good conversation.
James Duke:Yes, I'm I'm really excited to spend some time with you. Uh I have uh appreciated uh your films uh as a as a fan and and kind of watched you and of course your brother John as you guys have developed as as filmmakers. And I think that's one of the things I want to spend some time uh talking to you about today is uh that that film journey, um, which has led to your most recent film that I want to make sure that we also spend time talking about, because we're gonna release this podcast like right before, you know, sometime a week or so before Christmas. And I want to make sure people are aware of this new film that you have coming out on Christmas Day, which by the way is pretty cool to have a film coming out on Christmas Day. This is uh it's called American Underdog. And it's uh it's the Kurt Warner story, which you know, I'm I'm a football fan. I I'm a huge football fan. I'm not a I'm not a Rams fan, but you know, I I I I could I could appear I could appreciate greatness when I when I saw it. And and Kurt's story is amazing. And you guys, now this is a story, let's let's just start there. This is a story that I kind of been bandied about for years because Kurt's story is it's just a it's just a you know, like it's one of those things that you oftentimes um when you uh the announcers would say, you know, you couldn't make this stuff up, right? Like it's like uh even Hollywood couldn't make it, but here you guys are making a movie about his story. How did you guys end up getting the rights to tell his story? And what was the impetus for you to, you know, why did you guys decide to tell his story?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh it was one of those that, you know, um, I think everybody kind of saw it as a movie while it was happening, you know. Uh Al Michaels, like you said in the Super Bowl, uh when Kurt was playing, uh, you know, uh was saying that this is too good to be even a movie. And uh so I think everybody saw it that way, and there was a lot of people that circled it for years. And so for those that don't know Kurt's story, I mean, he uh uh married a uh a single mother. He was a fifth-year senior uh out of college. Single mother had two kids, one of which was blind and and and disabled, and uh he fell in love with his family and just was chasing his dream of playing professional football, and nobody uh he just he just couldn't make it. And so he uh decided to take care of the family, you know, worked in the supermarket and and did whatever to pay the bills and played arena football on the weekends and was out of football for five years before he got his shot with the Rams. And that year, when he finally got his shot, he uh just had developed this speed and skill in arena football that nobody had ever seen before. And the greatest show on turf was born with that St. Louis Rams team, took him all the way to the Super Bowl and was the MVP of the NFL and the Super Bowl in the year that he was uh the lowest paid player in the league. And so it was one of those that was like too good to be true. So John and I, we got our start as cameramen for uh sports networks, and uh while we were trying to get this film hobby off the ground, uh we we just operated a camera for you know networks like ESPN, and so I was on the sidelines of Kurt's second Super Bowl as a cameraman. Oh wow, and and I remember watching him and just everything was at that point it had become legend because it was a year, it was his second super bowl. So it was uh against Tom Brady uh in Tom Brady's first Super Bowl. Uh and uh and I remember being on the sidelines of that game uh at the end of the game, and the thing that really caught my attention wasn't necessarily what was going on the field, it was the connection that Kurt had with this spiky-haired, uh, you know, beautiful, kind of intense lady in the stands, Brenda. And that was his wife. And I always just wanted to be like, I want to know the story behind that. So, fast forward 20 years later, um, it had been in development uh and kind of stuck in turnaround at several different studios and people trying to get it made. And uh, and we had just finished uh, you know, we had our breakout movie, which was I can only imagine, and then we had just done kind of the follow-up to that, which is called I Still Believe, and then COVID hit and shut everything down in our opening weekend. And uh in the middle of all that, somebody said, you know, you ought to I hear that the rights to Kurt and Brenda's story is they're lapsing, and uh, I think you should sit down and talk to them. And so we said, let's sit down and see what the story is. And we just we spent about three hours in Phoenix, Arizona, just talking about what they saw their story as. And John and I looked at each other, like, you know, pinching ourselves, saying, I can't believe this movie hasn't been made, and I can't believe it's falling in our laps. And then it just, you know, it kind of hit this trajectory where it spun off into a much bigger film than we initially thought it was gonna be.
James Duke:That's that's very cool. Yeah, and you guys also have the background of because one thing I think people don't realize, because I'm sure there's I haven't seen the film yet. I'm looking forward to seeing it when it comes out, but I'm sure there's there's foot what we call football scenes, you know. And um, football is actually one of those sports that isn't the easiest to film for the for our football for people who are fans of football and fans of film, you might be more aware of this. But you guys actually have a little background with this. You you made a you you've made a football film before. And it and it actually was heralded as being one of the better films to really portray the game of football on film. But was there a was there an approach that you had you felt like you learned from Woodlawn? By the way, we're talking about the film Woodlawn. Uh, was there a was there an approach that you felt like you learned from that film and how you guys created that film that that you uh took into this film?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, uh a couple of things. You know, first of all, we we wanted to make a football movie uh that you know had equal stakes for people that are football fans or not. And so every time we went out on the football field in American Underdog, it was for a reason uh with stakes at home that drove it. So it has much more of the DNA of a movie like uh Rocky or Cinderella Man than even a football movie. But uh the way that we portrayed the football, uh, we wanted it to be larger than life. And so, you know, what we the the approach that we took in Woodlawn when we took to this and kind of put it on steroids is in Woodlawn, you know, we like to film football from the outside, uh, you know, from the inside out instead of the outside in. And typically sports movies, they shoot it from the TV angles, which is, you know, the perspective of the fans, long lens. It hides a lot of you know the smoke and mirrors, and it allows you to kind of get away with a lot with you know, stunt doubles and stuff. We wanted to film on the field, and so we started this with Woodlong, where we got on the field and kind of put you in the action and didn't shoot the traditional TV angles. And uh, so you know, we started that with that movie, but when we got to underdog, Lionsgate gave us the budget to kind of you know just make that huge. And um, and so it takes it to a whole nother kind of scale, uh, both in terms of the the devices that we're able to use, like there's these amazing RC cars now that are like remote control that we can zip in and out of the action. It's really amazing. Um, and then also just you know, uh in in terms of uh we shot uh all the NFL stuff in this this one large format. So it's uh you know, so when you get to the end, you know, the the size of the picture just it just looks huge. And so uh we were able to do a lot of and then the last thing we did was we query graphed every play exactly uh down to how they hit the ground, who tackled them, how they got up off the ground, exactly how it happened in the original telecom. Oh wow, okay. So what we're able to do is similar to Argo, you know how they did that with a political thriller. We cut in and out of the actual archival and what we recreated to the point where it kind of blurs the lines and it kind of creates this urgency that it's not just recreating something that happened, it's almost like it's happening now. So it's cool.
James Duke:Um, can you explain to our listeners how you and your brother work when when when when it's described as um uh the Irwin brothers, um what what is there a you do this, he does that, or or do you guys truly do everything together? Could you describe a little bit of of of your uh of you and your brother's you know creative process when it comes to these films?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, uh we're brothers, and pretty much any brothers uh directing teams are uh highly dysfunctional at best. And you know, and so we we we bicker and we argue a lot. Um but uh we just have a policy that uh best idea wins and it's friction with respect. And you know, the best products are created with the right amount of friction. You know, uh you have to have opposing points of view. Sometimes you get that friction between a director and an actor, sometimes it's between uh a producer and director, and in our case it's between two directors. Um and I and I think we use that to kind of give us that jolt of creativity. Um, you know, uh John and I each speak into every part of the process, but each of us have kind of a skill set that sees a film from a different point of view. And so John is the writer for the film, he usually co-writes his movies, and then I I edit my own movies, so I co-edit my movies, which is kind of the final rewrite of your whole film. And so we each touch both ends of the the process. Uh, but in the middle, there's this blur of John sees things much more visually, much more cinematically. Uh and I see things more intimate and performance-based and personal. So uh I'm I'm usually the voice to the actors and to the dramatic side of things, and John's usually the voice to the crew in the visual side of things. We both speak into those parts of the process, but each of us kind of is the speaking head in those kind of venues, and then there's others we kind of divide and conquer, whether it's you know, production design or kind of the visual look. Um, you know, this is our first DGA film, so the directors guild for the union. And so for the DGA, we had to they have to give a special approval for co-director status for each film. And so we had to go before the council and and sit down with them and kind of be vetted on every part of our process and how we do our job. And uh, I guess they signed off that it was not too dysfunctional. So it worked.
James Duke:That must have been an interesting experience. You had to you had to basically um show your process a little bit to them. Is that pretty much what it was?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was it was intense. I mean, it was uh I mean it was a it was a a council of about 12 directors, and you go before them. Usually you do it in person, uh, from what I understand, but uh because of COVID, we had to do it by Zoom. But the people vetting us on the call were other people that had have co-directed before. So uh Seth Rogan was one of the main people that that vetted us, um, Jason Reitman that just did Ghostbusters, she was on there, uh, and and you know, six or seven others, and then a bunch of people that I didn't see who was on there. But they went through in every step, they were like, How do you do this? How do you do that? And then you kind of walk yourself through it. And, you know, being filmmakers that are kind of self-taught, um, you know, by reading a lot of books and and imitating a lot of people uh that kind of were outsiders to the industry that have kind of fought our way in, you know, it was both terrifying and validating at the same time. I'm sure to be on that call and then being like, you know, would you do this? How would you? And there was like these trick questions, and then at the end of it, we had to wait their decision, and they went and conferred and decided that we weren't idiots. So uh it it worked out. It worked out.
James Duke:That is that's a fascinating process. That's really interesting. You you went before the tribunal and you passed.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was it was very much kind of like uh you know, you know, Templar Knights kind of you know, uh some sort of kind of mate, Mason Grand Grand Pooba type thing. I the Star Chamber.
James Duke:You weren't before the Star Chamber.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was like the it was the Jedi Council. I kept waiting for them to pan the camera around and seeing Master Yoda sit there, but it was you know, it was awesome.
James Duke:That's great. So you talk you touched a little bit on you your your background. How do two brothers decide to make films together? I'm I am curious about that. You know, we've talked to a lot of people who one will one will write, one will direct, one one will one will produce. So, you know, um, how did you and John decide we're gonna do this to we're gonna actually do this together? Was it was it out of necessity or was it um tell us a little bit about that?
SPEAKER_01:I I think uh uh uh you know a uh a lot of us that have gravitated towards that, um, you know, I I I I don't know. I think it has a lot to do with just your upbringing and experience. You know, John and I started as kids, and so you know, being self-taught, we had to do every job, you know, in whatever short film or documentary or music video that we were doing. And so we just learned to divide and conquer. So we kind of wore every hat to start with. And then uh, you know, we uh we're both um we both kind of have uh more alpha tendencies uh and and typically want to be in charge. Uh but you know, we found that there was just a a strength when we one of us kind of you know, I guess uh took a step back in different you know expertise and say, okay, these are things that you do really well, I'm gonna defer to you, and these are things I do well, you're gonna defer to me. And in that uh friction with respect, um we found that we made each other stronger. You know, we make better films that way. So uh, you know, John and I, I don't I don't know that we're locked into always having to direct together for life. You know, we're always gonna be involved in each other's projects as partners, but um, but up to this point, it was a it was just out of necessity that it was kind of we were outsiders kind of chip on our shoulder, us against the world, and you kind of unite with family, and family just has a shorthand, and so we can be on set. And I know exactly what John's thinking, and I'm like, Oh, you're doing that, and I okay, do that. And then he's like, and then he's you know, it's just this shorthand that you have as as brothers, um, where you find kind of magic in a bottle. And so we each approach it very differently, but I think it makes a pro uh a better product when we kind of unite those points of view.
James Duke:Yeah, it's such a you know, I'm using this theologically incorrect, but it's uh when I say this word, but it is such a miracle when films get made. Um films are film uh, you know, for for those who haven't made a film, it's hard to make films.
SPEAKER_01:And it's insanely hard, yeah.
James Duke:Yeah, and you guys have you guys have been in the grind. Um right and you made this leap um uh with I Can Only Imagine, um, where um suddenly people were coming to you going, hey, you know. So I wonder if you could we could talk just a little bit about that. When you guys, well, let's start, let's start back a little bit with I Can Only Imagine of the impetus for that. When did you guys decide to take this um to base a film off of uh a song? When when did you get involved in the process and how did that start?
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, for us, uh, you know, a lot of uh a a filmmaker's early career is about imitation and you're imitating different things, you haven't really found your voice. So we had tried on a lot of different hats, you know, um coming out of music videos, we did, you know, uh October Baby, and then we did Malls Night Out and films that I'm proud of, but they were very much kind of just trying to find our voice. And when we did Woodlawn, Woodlawn was where we really found our voice. And our voice is uh in you know, stories of redemption, uh underdog stories, uh, that are true life stories. That's you know, real, real true life redemption stories is kind of you know our song to sing. And uh you know, Woodlawn was our first A plus cinema score, and uh and you know, meaning that the audience really connected with it. Um, and A pluses are rare. There's only a couple of them a year, and um, and so we we did that, but financially Woodlawn was not a success. You know, uh we had grown our budgets too fast. Uh we had had a little we we I guess we were a little too cocky. Uh and it was a humbling experience because it didn't perform the way that we had hoped. Um and in that humbling process, you know, we really were at that point of it's a very fragile point that a filmmaker gets to where, you know, either you're gonna push through or you're gonna fold up, shop, and go home and just do something else. And we were at that point where it was it could have gone either way. Um, and in that soul searching, we were figuring out what story was next. Well, I had gotten to be friends uh with Bart Miller that the I can only imagine is based on. Uh, and uh and he came up to me after screening one of her films and said, I don't know if you know this, but there's a producer named Cindy Bond, and she is option my story. They've been developing it for the past five years as a movie. I wonder if you would. Uh consider directing it. And I was like, oh yeah, that's interesting. They sent us a script this morning. And I just I read the script and I was just like, ah, it's just not, I don't know if there's a story there yet. And uh I was doing an interview uh at the end of the Woodlong experience, and the host asked me off the air, What are you guys looking at next? And I said, I don't know if you know, we're trying to figure it out, but maybe might do something around uh Bart Miller than the song I can only imagine. And he said, Oh my gosh, I was at the Ryman that night when Amy Grant pulled him up on stage and gave him his song back. He said it's the most amazing thing I've ever seen in music, and it wasn't in the script. And I called Barton, I'm like, Did this happen? He's like, Oh yeah, bro, it was the most magic night of my life. I forgot to tell you guys that. And I'm like, I'm like, lead off of them, bro. It was the most magical night of my life. I forgot to tell you about it, which is a very Bart thing to do. So I called up Amy Grant because we've done videos for Amy Grant, and and I said, Amy, did this happen? She said, Yes. And I said, Can we use it in a movie? She said, It does it help Bart. I'm like, it makes a better movie. She's like, then yes, you can use it. So at that point, we're like, okay, we don't just have a little song, uh story by song, we have a full, complete movie. And uh it's a redemption story. And John did a page one rewrite of the script, starting with the moment that we end the film with when he's he looks up and the the whole stands are empty and he sees his father in the stands. That was where we started, and we worked our way back from that uh to kind of finish the script. But that was exactly where John was like, this is a story about a father and a son. And um, and so when we made it, we had conflicts with the studio that was developing it. So we ended up, you know, there was a uh a meeting where they, you know, they just said uh there was only 17,000 fans on the planet that would that would be excited for the film. And and uh so we said, you know what, we really believe in our movie. We you know, we're gonna go ahead and buy the rights and take it on ourselves as an independent film. And again, that razor edge between success and failure, we that could have been insanely crazy. We stepped away from the studio, uh, didn't have a star, didn't cast Dennis Quaid until we were three weeks into filming. And uh we were we were a week away from having to fish a cut bait on just finding someone, and then Dennis said, I love the movie, let's do it. Um, and uh and then when it came out opening weekend, you know, it was predicted to do about four million opening weekend, which would have been a huge failure for us. And uh and then it came out and it did 17.1 opening weekend and gave us our second A plus cinema score, and then held 14 million the next weekend and did 86 million uh over the run of the film, little 7 million dollar film. And then that just smashed the doors wide open and it was a game changer. But the razor edge between success and failure there, we we could have easily just as easily died, you know, folded up shop and gone home.
James Duke:That is um that's a great that's a great point that so much of success comes is is bred from failure. Um and and um there's a fearlessness that that you have to you have to have. And uh that's a very admirable on you guys' part. I I talking about Dennis Quaid, that role, I mean, the that role in that film, it it it it kind of required, like I can't imagine who would have who could have been other than him, because that role required an actor of his gravitas. And yeah, um, what was it like? I mean, because I know you'd work with um other great actors, but that that must have been a um something a little bit different casting him in that world and working with him in that in that in that film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was. Uh and you know, and Dennis, Dennis uh and I become really dear friends at this point. I mean, he's in American Underdog as well, but you know, on that one, um, it was that role was originally written for Mel Gibson. And uh we were courting Mel and and traveling with him at at points, helping him promote Hacksaw Ridge to the faith audience. And then at the last minute, Mel Mel, when we made the offer, decided that he was going to go do uh Professor and a Madman, and which is a passion project for him. And when he pulled his name out of consideration, we were like, Oh, we don't we don't really have a plan B. Um and uh and so we started looking at all the people that were suggested, and I just really had a hunch about Dennis Quaid, and we got a lot of pushback at first because Dennis had always played, you know, the good guy that gets a little bit better. You know, he was always this the squeaky, clean, you know, Boy Scout, ideal American. And to play somebody that's a child abuser, that is really a rough character, that is not an attractive character, that really lets his kind of flaws hang out. Uh, you know, there was concern of whether the audience would accept that. But I just really felt like Dennis was at a place in his life where if he embraced his age and embraced his struggle, that there was something special to tap into that you know the audience had not seen before. So he came in and we only had him for about eight days to film with him. And he came in, really dialed in, and we, you know, had our first day on set, which is kind of like an awkward first date. And and I just, you know, you know, I I pulled him aside after one of the scenes. He said, Do you have any notes? And I said, Well, you know, I I love everything you're doing, but could you just give me a little bit less? I think the best kind of emotion is not trying, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not emotion, it's suppressed emotion, it's not crying, it's it's trying not to cry. And that's where the most powerful emotion comes from in a performance, especially with a man, is let it just be forced out of you. And he said, Oh, good. I I'd like being reined in because I I like to go big at first. And I said, Well, we have a policy of best idea wins, Dennis. And he said, Well, I like strong direction. I'm like, Well, we'll get along great, good. And I said, Well, this is what I want. And and so he came in for that breakfast scene and he played it like a shook-up bottle of soda pop, where he was trying not to be this abuser, but he was about to explode. And that scene, he just took it to another level that I I'd never seen anything like that out of Dennis before. And I was I was enthralled that hey, we've got great and goodness scene. And then we flipped the camera around to do the close-up work for John Michael Finley, uh, who played Bart. And John Michael was a first-time film actor, and he responded to Dennis and he took his level up. I'm like, oh my gosh, we got great and great in this scene. So that was one of those things that again, you don't know if it's gonna work out, it could have easily been a failure, but Dennis was meant for that role, and I can't imagine anybody else playing that role. And uh he just he did he tapped into something extremely special.
James Duke:He did, he really did. That I I thought I thought he was the um was just exceptional. I've always been a Dennis Quaid fan, but you're right. It's you know, he's Dennis Quaid, you know, he's he's that guy, you know, he's always the yeah um, but uh but that was something um that was something different in a in a really um beautiful way. Uh directing actors. Well, actually, before you we get to directing them, let's talk about casting them. Um, what is your process? Because you you guys have had some some some really good casts. You you you guys have have worked with some really talented actors in your films. Um what is your casting process? Are you looking for, do you have someone in your mind just locked in and like a bulldog, you're just driving towards that one person? Or do you or are you able to kind of consider, and if so, what are you looking for? I know every film and every role is different, but do you have some sort of process that you and John have in terms of of casting?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, you always write a script, and while John's writing a script, I'm the first audience, so I'm always critiquing the script and editing it with him. And so um you always kind of get locked in your head exactly who you see in your head. Uh and you know, typically you're set up for disappointment because you're, you know, it just very rarely uh do you get your first pick. And then you have to kind of wrap your head around, okay, what's available to me and and how do I, and then you end up casting your movie, and then all of a sudden you're like, I can't imagine a movie without that person. So, like in the case of I can only imagine, I can't imagine doing that film without Dennis Quaid. Like he was the movie, and uh, so you just have to fight for those things. So it's a lot of times it's relationship, it's a large portion of luck or providence. Uh, and then it's just about working towards the individual. So you I I usually do a list of 30 or 40 deep per role working with my casting director, um uh of people I could see we could see in these parts, and we we go through that roster and I do, you know, I and then I I do a headshot sheet where I start pairing people together as far as how they would the chemistry would go. Because it's not just about getting great actors in your film, it's about having a really well-developed cast. And uh, and then you work relationships. So, in the case of I Still Believe, we did that one. Um, KJ Apple, when he came on board from Riverdale, incredible young actor. I love KJ. But the first thing we asked is we've got to have great chemistry here. And uh, who would who who is the one actor she worked with that the best chemistry? And he said, Britt Robertson hands down. I did a dog's purpose with her. It was my first film when I moved to the US or New Zealand, and she's amazing. And I'm like, Well, can you reach out to her? So he reached out to her, and she didn't respond to his text. And he's like, Well, I guess she didn't like me as much as I liked her. And and so we were in the middle of chem reads with some other actresses that were really good, uh, but uh, you know, chemistry reads, uh, and and we just still weren't feeling it. And we said, he said, you know, let me reach out to her again. So he reached out to Britt on Instagram. She saw his message, said, Oh my gosh, I can't believe I didn't see your I changed my phone number, and I can't believe I, you know, I didn't see your text, and I would love to do this movie. And so she signed on, and then all of a sudden we're off to the races. Um, you know, and then uh, you know, other people like Gary Sinise, Gary Sinise has been a long time mentor for me, and I'd always wanted to work with him. And you know, we talked about where he was at in his career, and he had taken some time off to help his family, and and he said, and I said, Well, where are you at? And he said, I want to take a movie that reminds me I'm good at what I do. And I said, Well, I'd love to work with you. He said, Write me something. So we wrote the role of the father for him in that movie, uh, which was a treat. And then um, you know, when we got to underdog, sometimes you do land your first pick, and that's very, very, very rare. But in the case of Underdog, when we started talking, Zachary Levi from Shazam was our number one pick. Uh, that was the one we wanted, but we had the same agent at UTA, and I knew his schedule, and I knew he was about to shoot Shazam 2 and Harold the Purple Crayon, and he had two other films in development at Lionsgate. And so I didn't, I knew there was no chance. So we we went on to start talking to other people, but uh Zach and I knew each other from the past, and I talked to him on the phone, and I just said, you know, we were talking about something completely different, we were FaceTiming, and he said, What's this Kurt Warner movie? I keep hearing my name tossed around on. And I said, Well, Zach, I wasn't even gonna mention it to you because you're not available. He's like, Well, send me the script, let me see what I think. So I sent him the script and he texted me back at midnight. He said, I'm in tears. I love this script. He's like, Let's go make a football movie, we'll work it out. And so I called up my brother and I was like, I just landed Zachary Levi, and I I don't know how I did that, but he's on board. And so instantly we went back to the other actors that we had that were in our fold. So I Dennis Quaid looks a lot like Vermeal, has a lot of his tendencies. Yes, and so I reached out to Dennis and I put together a highlight reel of Dick Vermil, and I just said, Dennis, I'll let you play anybody you want, I'll let you play the mom in this film if you want. But I said, you know, I think it's really special when an icon plays an icon, and I sent it to him. He watched the highlight reel, he's like, I'm your Vermil, I'm in. And then uh, and then we were like, now we've got to really ground the cast with some like um pedigree. And so we started talking down the the, you know, the uh Brenda's a very complicated uh character. She's feisty, but she's warm. Uh she's kind of uh punk, but she's also feminine, you know, she's a marine, but she's also a mom. So there's a lot of contradiction in her, and you had to like her and also respect her at the same time. And so we reached out to Anna Packwin and she's an Oscar winner. She won Oscar at age nine, and and just said, you know, and she read the script and she said, I love this. I've never done anything about faith before, you know. And I'm, you know, I do you think that's a you know a problem for me playing this role? And I said, No, Anna, as long as you can fight to understand what Brenda's faith meant to her, I'm good. Who wouldn't want an Oscar winner? And she signed on and she did her homework and she came in dialed in. So all of a sudden, everything, all the pieces assemble, and we got great character actors to finish out the cast. And all of a sudden, the assemblers are like, this isn't just a uh, you know, one actor in a good movie, it's a really great ensemble cast, and that's just something you have to kind of it's like playing Tetris, just making all the pieces fit until you're like, oh, that's exactly what it needs to be, and you just work it.
James Duke:Yeah, it sounds yeah, uh that sounds really exciting. I mean, I'm really excited to see that cast. Yeah, I honest to goodness, the Dennis Quay Dig for Meal, that was like a no-brainer. As soon as you see Dennis Quay, you're like, oh, that's like a no-brainer. That's amazing. Um the uh rehearsal, how much rehearsal do you guys do? Like when you have these guys that are so busy, as Zachary Levi and uh Anna Pakwin and Dennis Quay, they're always working on other stuff. And um how do you do a lot of rehearsal? Do you do more like I I heard that uh who was it? Mel Gibson just like meets with his actors, he just like talks with them before. Um what is what are your what is your process? And is it is it different every film?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know, uh every filmmaker has kind of their style, and it usually comes out of just what their experience was getting into the industry, what they're coming from. So, like theater guys really do a lot of rehearsal. So if you're a theater person, yeah, they rehearse the heck out of it. If you're in a you know, Aaron Sorkin film, you know, you're gonna, you know, just go over it, over and over, over it. Um, you know, for me, uh, we work with the actors on whatever skill they need for the film. So in this case, as after levi, I had to work with the quarterback's coach and get you know all the dynamics of being an NFL quarterback down. So we had to work really hard on that. Um, and uh and making sure that we could do that on I Still Believe KJ Apple. We work with him extensively on uh him as a singer um because he was a guitar player, but singing was new to him. And so those things we work extensively on. As far as rehearsing the material, we're very light on rehearsal. You know, I think, you know, in particular, um John and I come out of live TV, and that was our thing. And so there's a frenetic energy when you have to kind of stick the landing in the moment and discover something. There's just there's this urgency and this kinetic energy that doesn't feel super planned, it feels like found. And I really like that. And so uh I find that if we over-rehearse it, um that it gets stale. And um, so what we do is with our leads, you know, we'll spend time with them doing some read-throughs and that type thing, and then allow them to speak into the script of saying, uh, that didn't feel like my character and that type stuff. And we kind of what we call tailoring the suit. But as far as the really big stuff, we really save it for the day and try to discover that in the moment. Um, just you know, and I I'm I'm kind of a four-take guy. I feel like first two takes I'm knocking Rust off, third take a live in the movie, fourth take will be really, really great, and then after that, you're wasting energy. And so um, you know, uh that's more in the Clint Eastwood kind of camp. I think he's only a two-take guy, but but you know, each, you know, each uh each director finds their own rhythm, but that's our rhythm.
James Duke:When you're on set, um, is there a leeway to improvise? Do you do you like for the actors to kind of play around? You you get you give them space for that, or you guys like, nope, this was the script.
SPEAKER_01:Say the words I wrote. No, we we tease my brother all the time. We're like, it's just words, and then he's like, I'm right here in the room, and we're like, so uh you know, I feel like once you have a really great script, uh, and then if you cast that film correctly as a director, then that's 90% of the directing job. And the rest of the time, my job is to help the actors get to a place where they feel safe and not self-conscious. Uh, and when they feel safe, then they'll risk and they'll be vulnerable. And vulnerability is the key to really great acting. Um, and so uh, you know, uh we we we are all about like get what's on the page once or twice, but then let's play, let's discover. And John is a good sport with that as a writer of finding things. So some of the best moments in the film are discovered. Like, for instance, there's this moment, you know, when we cast Dennis Quaid as Vermeal, I talked to the real Dick Vermeel on the phone, and uh, and I said, you know, what did you see in him? And he said, Well, I was you know out of football for 15 years as an announcer because I had burnt out and I saw the same thing in Kirk. And he said, But I remember pulling him aside in the hallway one day and saying, Son, there's something really special about you. I can't wait to find out what it is. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's great. Can I use that? He's like, Yeah. So I called John. I was like, we need to add this line, and we just throw it in. And so we were all about this discovery best idea wins. So everybody has their fingerprints on it. Um, you know, uh, you know, Anna pushed really hard for some things that were like, Hey, I've read this, Brenda, this is a very Brenda moment. Uh, or you know, Kurt and Brenda were on set a large portion of the film, and they'd be over by the monitors, and they would be feeding us little things that were just nice signatures that only they would know. And so, yeah, everybody gets their fingerprints on our scripts.
James Duke:Uh, you guys have made a lot of true stories. Like you, you, you, you, you've made a lot of stories. You made a lot of your films deal with uh characters who either lived or are currently living. And um why is there something about true stories that resonates with you differently? Um, do you I'm I'm curious uh why you guys have made so many true story films?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um, you know, again, each filmmaker finds their song to sing and they sing it over and over again. So, you know, you know, for Spielberg, it's the wonder of childhood and the idea of trying to bring the nuclear family back together. You know, it's all about exploring the split up of his parents, you know, and his story his parents got divorced and they got back together later in life. And that's really the crux of the majority of his story. whether it's ET or you know whatever, it's it's about trying to bring the family together. Um you know and so I think there's you know each filmmaker has something that they want to try to explore.
James Duke:Um you know for us because we were documentary filmmakers before features uh we've always just felt like there's something power in the truth uh uh something powerful in the truth it's it's just uh you know I think as a sp uh specifically as a person of faith that we want uh our faith to read as real and lived in and not propaganda uh somebody's real life experience gives us the platform to do that in a way that can be overt without feeling preachy and uh with each story it it just and there's something about when it's invented you know it in in you know some sort of well well known IP might be a different scenario but as far as fictional versus fact um there's just something about fact that allows us to you know to just be who we are and just say hey this is what they really went through this is their real life experience their faith was important to them this is how it made a difference and just put it out there in a way that feels very subjective and uh that allows for conversation pieces to be had and and we've done fiction I mean our first two films were fiction uh but we found that when we stepped into something that was real with Woodlawn we're like oh this feels comfortable this is us and uh my job is to study the real life people do you do you feel as though when it comes to films that that deal with issues of faith um do you feel like almost not having a suspension of belief um helps in the sense that um to to your point like if it's true like there's a sense that the audience can come into this and go um I there isn't there is a baseline of truth here that I know now they might play around with someone's hair or you know certain circumstances may move around but um particularly in this genre right um do you feel uh do you feel as though that's a that's like an added benefit for you as a filmmaker with the audience?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I mean I think I think so because our our our goal with our films other films of faith are geared more towards the choir our our films uh uh are kind of with an outward focus to allow the choir to be heard by people outside the church walls and uh and so with that outward focus we're looking for entry points for somebody that's not of faith or has walked away from faith to start a conversation and so you know if you go straight to you know doctrine and dogma a lot of times it a wall instantly goes up with a person that uh that really ends that conversation but uh but you kind of similar to the apostle paul in the Bible that he was talking to all these philosophers and scholars uh in Greece and he he talked to him uh on Mars Hill and was trying to use their language to explain you know the truth of the gospel um you know what we're looking for is an entry point and right now the biggest entry point for anybody in a secular society you know living today is your experience my truth and so it it doesn't have a debate when it's like this is what this person went through this is their truth this is what they found and that allows us to plant the seed of the gospel and start conversations and you know so like with imagine you know when I got when we got done with that movie we were pitched a movie from another big studio to direct we had to turn it down because of our deal with Lionsgate um but on the way back to the elevator uh the executive that was walking us there was about my age and he's a guy and we're getting got to the elevator I turned around to say goodbye and I looked back and he had crocodile tears in his eyes and he said I don't typically watch your kind of movies he said but I had to to prepare for this meeting today and he said I can't get away from the fact that Dennis Quaid's character in that movie was my dad and I can't stop thinking about it and for some reason I have not been able to stop crying. And I'm like that's somebody that you get to that point where you earn the right to be heard you make somebody you you you engage with them it's called emotional jamming. If I can jam a wedge between your heart and your head and make you feel something for a character then it will stick with you long term and reverse engineer to your head and change how you think so the idea is by doing true stories those defenses don't go up nearly as fast. You know and and other filmmakers have done that well for their perspective like I remember when I watched the imitation game when I watched that film the filmmaker and the writer wrote it to really try to help people understand a community that he was a part of that thought differently than I did. But when I watched it I it it stuck with me emotionally I couldn't shake it uh because it was a true story and it got to the point that he didn't turn off the moment where the movie preached till he'd earned that right and as Christians we can either you know criticize people that that that that that do that that may have a different worldview or we can say oh that's a powerful tool and how do we engage thought to try to just plant the idea of simple redemption and forgiveness and then the the answer to that obviously is Christianity and relationship Jesus Christ but that's that's just offered by wetting that appetite for wanting redemption and that's true stories you know I'm not saying it's the only way to do it but it's a powerful tool to do it.
James Duke:Yeah I I agree with you and I think that for um uh as an audience member you find yourself um it's one thing to see yourself and it's one thing to see yourself in a character right uh and to and to empathize but it's another thing to see yourself in another human being right like someone who actually someone who actually lived and and I think that was the point that maybe even the power of that that executive was that it wasn't just a character that you created it was it was that Bart's actual father exactly his transformation. I I want to talk to you a little bit about from your perspective um the the conversation in that that Christians have about Christian film. Yeah there's a there's a there's a bit of a schism if you will there's people who absolutely hate them and abhor them and think that they've ghettoized everything. And then there's people who absolutely think that that's all you should watch. You should completely remove yourself from mainstream and you should only watch you know the cross and the switchblade over and over again um which I I'm sure some of some of our audience know that reference of them. Anyway um uh for you you're you're in this space and by the way I want to start this question out by saying um I I'm a fan of you and your brother's work I have to admit you guys have really developed as filmmakers it's been really impressive to see you guys you're starting off um uh and and to progress to where you are now um I I see you growing as filmmakers I see you growing as storytellers uh and it's been really impressive and I just want to tell you congratulations and bravo on on on on on everything you guys have been able to uh achieve and accomplish so far and and having said that you you even touched on a little bit that your films tend to your 10 your films tend to address maybe a different plant of that audience within that same faith-based Christian film kind of subcategory whatever we want to call it for marketing purposes but that's where we are right um so for you i'd love to know your thoughts on this space because I know you have lots of friends you've worked in this space you have lots of friends in this space um what do you say to those two groups uh the group that says you shouldn't be a part of any kind of mainstream film you should only make Christian content um and what do you say then to the other group which says um christian film is is is is is abhorrent and you should have nothing to do with with faith-based films yeah you know I I think you know I I I would hope that to just be part of a tool to cause a conversation to happen between those two groups um you know I I think film is a very subjective thing uh and you know it's easy to criticize uh because it you know I think there's a lot of you know there's a large part of Christian uh critics that are just as ashamed of Christians and I can't do anything about that you know if that triggers something in you that makes you feel like the Christian ghetto uh then I I can't do anything about that.
SPEAKER_01:I mean it's just it it it's who it's you know you you have a bigger issue than a film. But as far as the quality goes yeah I I think that um you know John and I always have said that quality is something we always chase it's not something we ever catch. And so with each film we just try to get a little bit better you know and to chase quality a little bit more. And I think that's the correct perspective. I think the ones that are doomed to failure are the ones that come out and be like finally we're the first you know quality Christian film and I'll be like oh you just stepped in the trap because you know to the outside world outside the church they don't care. They don't care they they don't care about the labels. They're just like is it a good movie? Is it worth watching what's the buzz about you know it's like you know and when that fear of missing out kicks in like I there's a reason why I crazy rich agents was not on my radar you know even though one of my buddies is in it I I it wasn't on my radar wasn't even paying attention until all of a sudden you know there's all this buzz from a community that celebrated their art form and by Monday you know afternoon I'm sitting in the theater watching crazy crazy rich agents being like what's all the hype about you know and so I think there's a larger portion of people that they they're there are real issues just with being ashamed of Christians. But the quality side I'll say that I have a different perspective because I did come up with a group of people and and we're maybe second generation but there was a group of people whether it's the Kendrick Brothers with Fireproof or you know or Devon Franklin that's been like a big brother to us uh you know or you know obviously Mel Gibson was the one that started the whole trend um uh you know in this recent reiteration of of faith uh films um you know so I I I think that it took tremendous courage uh for two pastors in you know in Georgia to step into the game saying we want to be involved in this and we're willing to make up for 40 years of lost ground where there was a lot of Christians that said movie theaters are bad and we're not going to do this. And so whereas we were represented incredibly well in the 50s you know and up to the 60s you know with movies like Ben Hur and the robe and you know the Ten Commandments I mean that was like that was stable Hollywood it was really controlled by Catholics and then at some point Christians were like no movies are bad and they stopped and so we lost our seat at the table. So for two men to step in the game and say you know we're gonna reclaim lost ground and we're gonna learn what we don't know yeah absolutely in the early days we all struggled but I think we have fought to try to learn in triple speed uh you know how to how to make an impact and I think uh any of us that are having any kind of success at this point oh a tremendous debt of gratitude to towards leaders like that that we're willing to take a chance and so I think with any emerging industry you know there's a lot of criticism that comes up front there's a lot of critics um you know Christian music took the same flap for years and so um I'm excited to be a part of the maybe uh blazing the trail that then there's hopefully filmmakers that come behind me that are going to take it farther and do bigger things um and so I I see it I see the idea of a trailblazer as being incredibly romantic and this idea that I'll see and this is my soapbox so you get me on it for a little while uh I'll I go for it go for it yeah I'll say that I'll say that the other thing is a lot of people are chasing approval rather than telling a story and I think where we do owe it to the audience to have quality is chase quality in in the storytelling to make it as good as your story deserves and serve the story. Serve your fans the people that are buying the tickets uh don't chase approval and so uh I was uh I was at um uh uh Sundance uh you know several years ago and I just was fly on the wall just decided to kind of step in and um and there's this group of Christian filmmakers that that go and they kind of have these you know groups that go and screen films and you know they do a lot of cool things but I just showed up just stepping in not really announcing who I was just before Madgin to come out Madden was was just finished and uh the moderator knew I was there but nobody else didn't and somebody asked a question about this exact question about the Christian ghetto and they just went around the rooms and just it just eviscerated and it got to this one professor at a well known university that I won't mention uh and he just was like what we need is authenticity we need to chase authenticity and you know Christians da da da da da and I don't disagree with that but it gets to me and they're like hey we've got a special guest in the room uh the director of woodlawn Andy Irwin and that that professor shrunk in his seat because he knew that we had a partnership with the his university and uh and and I was like well I just think that you know we're trying to connect with an audience and start a conversation and I think it's tremendously you know does the quality need to continue to go up yes but is it going up and is it going yeah and I think the the future is bright because we're connecting with an audience well afterwards he pulls me to the side this professor and he said do you did what'd you think about what I said you know authenticity and I said well man um I agree with you as long as we can agree on what authenticity is and I said authenticity of chasing quality to serve a story absolutely Christians need to get better at that authenticity of trying to chase approval man you're gonna die in the chasm every time because there's this chasm between the audience you serve and mainstream culture and now you're trying to say we're just as cool as Transformers or anything else like that and you've rejected your audience by telling them they're not cool enough for you and you end up dying you know friendless in the chasm. The key is to serve an audience to make enough noise with them to make a quality enough product with them that they make enough noise that crosses the chasm and mainstream cultures does exactly what I did with Crazy Reach Asians. It's like what's all this noise about and that's where a movie like Imagine comes out does the numbers it does opening weekend and we saw that our numbers were off the charts in Burbank and nobody goes and sees a fake film in Burbank I mean it's just it's an industry town. And so we sent somebody spy and when they went in there was about like 50 suits in this one audience with notepads taking notes from the studio saying why does this work you know the fear of missing out and so that's wow that's the key. And I think as long as you're chasing quality and you never catch it then we're in good shape.
James Duke:That's really good. I I um there's a lot of a lot of good insight in that I look there's a there there are so many people I I'm gonna I'm just gonna say it too there's a lot of people by the way in the Christian um uh film business also too they're just jealous yeah there's also jealousy involved here and and you don't have to say it but I'll say it there I mean they're jealous of they're jealous of you guys they're jealous of the Kendrick brothers they're jealous of other people and it comes out with this almost like puritanical view of of uh of of of quality look look I can say point blank if I like a film or not there's certain films like it's just not my cup of tea right I'm not fine I don't really like right but but to but to flat out accuse people of things like we have to be careful as Christians to not fall on the same trap that non-Christians fall into. Right. And and so I would I would uh I do believe that in the end you have to be good you just have to be good and who's judging the good and you said it perfectly well the audience if you put the you put it out there and the audience is going to watch it and the audience is going to let you know. And if there is an audience coming to your films that's telling you that there is there is an audience being served and um and and you we have to have that conversation who's being served like now I could argue that I think that there that the audience could learn um a thing or two. But but but but you know what this is what happens when Scorsese and Ridley Scott criticize the MCU like the Marvel films right like they get jumped on but there's actually very little difference to the conversation. I think I think I I can say to you that um there are always going to be critics um who are going to be critical of a particular space that a Christian is involved in. The problem comes is when it's other Christians and we don't we don't offer each other the same grace of God that God offers us. Like I I you know I will probably be criticized for having you on the podcast just like I'm criticized for having um my friend Scott Teams on the podcast a couple of weeks ago who wrote the last Halloween film, right? Because how dare a Christian be involved in horror films? How dare he how dare he want to do that? And so I get criticized you know we, you know, there's criticism on this side and there's criticism and it's and and you know I loved your initial response to my question which was hey um let's be in the middle and try to bring these two groups together and and in a sense I think that's what your films do. American underdog um I still believe I can I I can only imagine I I want to end our conversation with this um you guys have decided to step into this space. You talked about how the mentors and the people and so you and your brother have started a new production company with this overall deal with Lionsgate. You're wearing the hat there Kingdom Story Company. Tell us a little bit about the vision behind Kingdom Story Company, what what what your plans are um and kind of where do you see the future kind of the next five to 10 years with your company you know I I I'm I'm uh I'm just excited you know to to be in a moment where faith from a studio standpoint doesn't have a stigma to it.
SPEAKER_01:You know ultimately a studio is a business and they're they really want things that connect with an audience. And if you can prove that you bring an audience then they'll give you every opportunity to be heard. And I think a Lot of Christians, we've done a lot of complaining, like there's some conspiracy against us when it's really just about not proving that we have an audience. And and so with uh, you know, we've always appreciated behind the scenes of other filmmakers that we've always kind of been an alliance, you know, uh that uh, you know, behind the scenes we've really helped each other, whether it's Devon Franklin or the Kendricks or others, you know, this kind of competitive allies type thing where we share information. I remember with Devon when Imagine was was passing what he had done with Miracles from Heaven and we were headed towards Heaven is for real. I text I texted Devon and I said, today we get this, you know, soar with eagles, man. It's good to be in rare air with you. And uh and he said, he said, man, I'm cheering for you today, but you better believe on my next film I'm I'm coming back for the title. And so, you know, uh, you know, and we share all the information behind the scenes to set each other up to win. I want Devon to win, I want McKendrix to win. I want there to be other filmmakers uh that are younger with diverse voices to win. And so, you know, after Imagine happened, the the opportunity came about that Lionsgate wanted to do a long-term deal with us, and so you know, they saw a lot of similarities by our DNA with what they had gone through with Tyler Perry, and because they discovered Tyler Perry when he was doing church plays, and then all of a sudden he became the brand that he is, and uh Tyler's a good friend, and uh, you know, and so we stepped into that and said, Okay, well, let's find out who Tyler's attorney is. And there's this guy named Matt Johnson. And I I didn't know if that was good or bad, it was uh some sort of power attorney. We met with him, he liked our business plan, and for this idea of doing an imprint at a studio similar to what Pixar did at Disney years ago, that was an imprint served for a specific kind of story within the studio that was autonomous, and so it allowed us to have creative control, you know, Lionsgate funds everything, but it allows us to be you know autonomous in the stories that we tell, and then the ability not just to do Irwin films, but to go out and target young, up-and-coming, and seasoned filmmakers that have that faith perspective and give them a platform. And so we hired Matt Johnson. We went into the meeting with with Lionsgate and they said, Do you guys have a an attorney? We're like, Yeah, we have Matt Johnson, and they're like, We're like, I don't know if that's good or bad. And he's like, Matt was like, and they were like, Matt Johnson, like, like the Matt Johnson. I didn't think he was taking any more clients. And they looked over and they're like, Oh crap. And so Matt, I didn't realize that Matt's other clients were, you know, LeBron James, Oprah, and the Obamas, but uh, you know, it he he knows his stuff. Um, and and Matt negotiated a deal uh that we should have never had. So it gave us Final Cut where we could have creative control, uh, get fully funded everything and allowed us to kind of go out and make the move movies that we want to make. So literally everything that we brought Lionsgate to develop and make, uh, they said yes to every single one of them, uh, if we proved that there's an audience there. And so, and and they put the money behind it with a movie like Underdog that has four times the budget that we've ever had, um, and giving us a Christmas Day release that's never happened for a film about faith. That they felt like it connected with a mainstream audience without betraying our core audience of faith. And um, that's the hope in the future is to begin to play in deeper waters to continue. We're not going to reject or walk away from the audience that we serve, which is an audience of faith that has uh strong Christian roots that really portrays stories of redemption, forgiveness, and love that we believe in, but also stories that we feel like can take a swing at that mainstream audience uh that can do both ends. And uh, you know, the jury's out of whether that'll work. But we've been given every opportunity to succeed. And Kingdom Story Company, we hope, becomes a brand that uh is a safe destination for families in a world where that's harder and harder to find.
James Duke:Did you did you did you was there ever a time that you thought you were gonna release a film opposite the Matrix and uh Spider-Man and Steven Spielberg? So so so it's you versus Neo, Spider-Man, and Steven Spielberg.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it was funny. Well, we were when I was mixing, when I was mixing uh underdog, I was out at I met you at the Sony lot, and uh I was on the the Novak stage, Kim Novak stage, and I'm mixing with my team. And uh and and I go out to the waiting area that we share in between the stages, and the stage that we mix on historic Hollywood stage, it's where they film Wizard of Eyes and Singing in the Rain. Uh it's stage six at Sony. And I go out and over to the side, Michael Mann walks by with a bunch of people and he's mixing his TV show. Jason Reitman uh uh walks in to do a screening of Ghostbusters, and then Denzel Washington is hanging out packing his bag next to me because he's mixing letters for Jordan or uh uh letters from Jordan. And I I I I text my brother, I'm like, who's the imposter here? And he's like, he's like, well, it's the film industry, y'all four are. And I'm like, but but uh, but uh, you know, the idea of releasing a movie along with the some incredibly great filmmakers. Um uh, you know, there's no guarantees that it will be successful. I think it has every opportunity to have a chance and to be given a chance as a Christian without it being an asterisk next to your name. Uh and just being like, I'm a Christian, that's who I am. I tell stories about faith, but I also want to do a really great sports movie. I want to do a really great love story. Uh I want to work with great actors regardless of what they believe. Uh in order to portray the thing that I think is universally needed, and that's uh that's uh knowing that there's a God that desperately loves them. To be given that opportunity, that's all you can ask for. To get a chance to play in the Super Bowl, you know, you know, that's that's huge. And so I'll take it, man. And uh, we're excited to see what God does.
James Duke:Yeah, it's no coincidence, I think, that your your American underdog story is premiering uh December 25th against West Side Story and all those other ones. Um, it's been a real pleasure talking with you uh today. I'm so honored just that you would uh take some time. I know, I know you've been busy with uh the typical circuit of doing all the press junkets and everything. And uh we're just excited for you. We're excited to see the film. And um uh the film once again is called American Underdog, the Kurt Warner Story. Um it comes out uh all over the country. Christmas Day. It's gonna be it's exclusively in theaters, right? This is one of the yep, we're doing we're all we're going all theaters on this one. So we want people to to go out there and and and check it out. Christmas is Christmas still, by the way, is Christmas still the number one? I mean, I know COVID's messed everything up, but is Christmas still the number one movie going day in the country?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that that's the exciting thing. It's like that's that that that is our Super Bowl followed closely behind by July 4th. But uh, you know, people they typically they open their presents, they see their family, and then they go to the movies. And you know, for a movie, you know, a lot of the other movies that are choices out there kind of divide that they serve a certain segment of audience. We felt like American Underdog is a really great compromise film to say that's something the whole family can enjoy. So fingers crossed, man. I don't know.
James Duke:Did you uh one one last question? Have you have you have you caught a pass from Kurt Warner yet?
SPEAKER_01:It was all that I could do to keep Kurt Warner from being his own stunt stunt double. Yes, I I had caught a pass and he was you he was passing me the ball saying, see, I can still throw it, put me in, coach. And I was like, Kurt, the insurance money that I would have to cover for the NFL network uh is not gonna allow that. So he got one little cameo of his hand signing a contract in the film, but he wanted a lot more.
James Duke:That's great, that's great. Well, it's this has been fantastic. Thank you so much. I I like to end all of our podcast by praying for our guests. Would you allow me to pray for you? We'd love that. We'd love that. Heavenly Father, just uh we just want to pause and thank you. Thank you for just the chance to be able to talk to um Andrew and just uh learn about his story, learn about him and his brother and all the work that they're doing. And um, God, we just um we know that um this this business is a difficult business. It's a hard business. And um every every film is a new journey. And uh God, we know that this one is coming towards its end. And uh we just uh pray for your blessing. We pray that the film is uh seen by everyone who needs to see it, who wants to see it. Uh, we pray, God, for success for the film, that that people would enjoy it, um, that Andy and uh John would uh have a real sense of satisfaction of being able to see um how the audience responds to their hard work. And um, God, we just pray for a blessing for all of that. We pray for a blessing for uh his family, for himself, uh uh everything he's got going on with uh their production company and uh all their future projects, all their future endeavors. God, we just pray that you would go before them. You'd watch, watch over them. Um, I'm sure that they are on the um the list of those who want to do harm as well, um, that to see them brought down uh now because of uh their success. So, God, I pray you would protect them. I pray you'd watch over them, watch over their family, watch over their relationships. God, um, and we pray that um uh as they continue to craft and create new ideas and new stories, that your hand would be all over um everything that they do, and that it would be pleasing and honoring to you, God. We pray this in Jesus' name and your promises we stand. Amen. Thank you for listening to the Act One podcast, celebrating over 20 years as the premier training program for Christians in Hollywood. Act One is a Christian community of entertainment industry professionals who train and equip storytellers to create works of truth, goodness, and beauty. The Act One program is a division of Master Media International. To financially support the mission of Act One or to learn more about our programs, visit us online at Act OneProgram.com. And to learn more about the work of Master Media, go to MasterMedia.com.