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The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
RJ Bates III, affectionately referred to as the Viking Wizard by his students, started his real estate investing career in 2014 after attending a real estate education program that put him $65,000 in debt. RJ contracted his first deal he found on the MLS and wholesaled it for a $7,500 assignment fee. That was the end of his former life and the beginning of his venture into becoming a real estate investor. Since that moment, RJ has become an influential figurehead in the real estate investing industry. He has successfully purchased and sold over 2,000 properties all across the USA including wholesale deals, rehabs, rentals, owner finances and short term rentals. One of his passions is being the host of The Titanium Vault Podcast where he interviews the top real estate investors and finally, RJ has won back to back Closers Olympics earning him the reputation as the King Closer!
The Titanium Vault hosted by RJ Bates III
PPL Regulations | How To Stay Compliant With PropertyLeads
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Over 10 years in the real estate investing business
Closed deals in all 50 states
Owned rentals in 12 states
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Closed on over 2,000 properties
125 contracts in 50 days (all live on YouTube)
Back to back Closers Olympics Champion
Trained thousands of wholesalers to close more deals
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in the ambience I gotta ring the thing then again. I'm such a winner, I'll win again. Some think I'm a viking or maybe a wizard. I feel like I'm both when I'm in the ring. Victory brings serenity. I give them a three piece that's for the three p, and then I leave with the trinity true ball. I got all the amenities. All the others just want to be mini me's. It is mad when they get my vicinity what's up guys?
Speaker 1:rj base. The third here, james from Property Leads, and we're here today to discuss how we're going to stay compliant with the new PPL pay-per-lead regulations that are coming down January 27th, james, how are you doing today, man?
Speaker 3:I'm doing good, man. I just realized my hair makes me look like a cockatiel. I look ridiculous.
Speaker 1:At least you have hair. I mean, listen, you don't have to wear a hat and have a shiny ring light in your face every single day, all right, so no man, I appreciate you hopping on here. I know you've got a lot going on over there at Property Leads. First thing I want to ask you is I mean, how crazy has this been over the past several months preparing for January 27th?
Speaker 3:You know it's been hectic. You know more, I would say, for our software team. I give them a lot of credit. They've been working really hard to, you know, build this out and you know also, you know kind of the leadership, just sort of guiding everybody through. You know what to do, what the you know how everything should be worded. It's it's been interesting. You know it's something that we got ahead of early. You know we've been working on this for months. You know we've we've actually been really excited about this because, like we very strongly feel like it'll clean up a lot of the nonsense that goes on in terms of, you know, multiple leads being sold from like one form fill and all that stuff. So we were, it was something we were really excited about because this is just stuff we've done forever.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I wanted to talk to you about that. I mean, when these come out? I mean you guys have only sold exclusive leads, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean I guess that the you know the, the question of the day is always like how do you define an exclusive lead right? Because you know, I think you and I have actually talked about this on these labs before like, naturally, sellers are going to fill out multiple web forms. So I think defining exclusive is important and you know we define it as a form fill. So, um, because of that, you know we were, we were already for the most part set up, other than just kind of changing some of the wording on the web forms. You know getting the business names kind of pulled in and you know you know kind of popping up on the web form as folks are filling it out, which you know is the consent piece.
Speaker 1:So so let's talk about for the, for those that maybe are tuning in property leads, customers and stuff that are not aware of what's happening, cause I make the assumption that everyone kind of understands what's happening on January 27th but, from property lead standpoint, explain kind of what is happening on January 27th and what's going to be changing in comparison to today, like how you could sell leads as a PPL provider.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so previously, you know seller goes to Webform, they fill out the Webform. You know seller goes to web form, they fill out the web form. The language on the web form may be sort of generic where it says you know you're consenting to somebody reaching out to you at some point about this property. With the law changes coming, it has to just be more specific to a particular company. The reason that this is being rolled out, I actually think it's not necessarily tied to the real estate space. I think it's like other niches. Somebody online may fill out a web form and next thing that they know they're getting smoked with like a thousand calls. But the real estate space is catching some of the shrapnel. So now the opt-in or consent piece has to be to a specific company or, I guess, as a specific person, preferably a company name, right? So, mr Seller, you're opting into RJ buys houses, you're giving them permission to text call, send carrier, pigeon, door knock, do all that good stuff.
Speaker 1:And what's funny about that? You bring up that this is not specific to the real estate industry. This is across the board. We've all made jokes about the extended car warranty. We might be catching some of that shrapnel from the extended car warranty industry. Right, this really has nothing to do specifically with wholesaling or real estate thing. This is across the board for every industry when it comes to the paper leads, providers, right, correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the space. That's wild, it's like the wild west. It wasn't regulated for a long time so people were kind of doing whatever they wanted and they're cleaning it up. And I like it because we're it works really well for what we're already doing and so so the lift to fix it is a lot less for us.
Speaker 1:So walk me through. If I'm I'm new to property leads, I go to propertyleadscom and I sign up for an account. How, how am I buying my leads right now? What are my choices? Nationwide, statewide, countywide? Walk me through. What are my options to buy leads right now with property leads?
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question. I'd say there's three main ways to buy leads. Most popular would probably be buying leads at the county level. We call those retail buyers. You're buying leads at the county level. We call those like retail buyers. You're buying not retail in terms of like property price, but you're buying leads at the county level. Starting bid for those are 125 and they move up from there. I would say those range anywhere from 125 to. I've seen counties get up over a thousand dollars but those generally fluctuate.
Speaker 3:So if you are somebody that logs in and just to check things out and you look at your county and you're like, oh my gosh, I can't pay $500 a lead, still set up a call with us because you may not have to pay $500 a lead to get leads in that county. We can walk you through how to get leads at a lesser price. Additionally, you can buy leads at the state and national level. Generally those leads are going to be a little more rural at the state and national level. Generally those leads are going to be a little more rural. You don't have as much control over the areas you're getting leads in.
Speaker 3:The leads at the state level are going to primarily be where there's no lead buyers at the county level. So if you're looking at your dashboard and you're looking at the entire state with all the counties, anything listed at 125 is what you're going to get. If you're bidding at the state level, Anything listed at 125 is what you're going to get. If you're bidding at the state level, and then national is a different animal, you could get leads literally anywhere in the nation, any zip code, and you'd have to be okay with that. So sometimes I'll see a refund request coming in and say, well, it's not in an area I want to buy in, it's too rural. You'd be a great candidate to shift from national to either state or county specific if that's what you prefer.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. So I go in, I decide what I want to be national, state, countywide and then those leads that you guys are selling to me are exclusive to me.
Speaker 3:Exclusive to a form. Phil, yeah, yep. So if somebody fills out a form, you're the only one getting that lead. Now, if they fill out another form a couple days later, we're definitely selling that lead again, right?
Speaker 1:And I've talked about that numerous times.
Speaker 1:Like guys, you got to not be upset about this. Facts are, if they fill out a form and you get the lead and two days later they fill out another form, that means you probably didn't do a good enough job of getting a hold of them. Right, that falls on your shoulders, right? So with these PPL regulations coming down on January 27th, there now has to be consent between you, property leads and the seller, as well as, say, me, the wholesaler, the person who purchased the lead, and the seller. So what technology did you guys install or instill there to where I'm getting that permission?
Speaker 3:Yeah, great question. What we're doing is we're pulling the company. So picture a seller on a you know on a website filling a web form. As they're working their way through the multi-step web form, the backend system is going to identify who that lead is going to sell to and it's going to pull that person's company name and it's going to embed it in the web form while the seller is walking their way through the web form, so that when they hit submit, they see RJ buys houses and they're giving permission to RJ buys houses to reach out to them. So they're we're pulling that, that business name, putting it into the web form so that when they hit submit, it's literally on the you know, it's literally on the screen.
Speaker 3:I do want to say one thing. If you are a property leads client and you log into your dashboard and, like you're looking at the screen, like your admin screen, and it says NA for your business name, like please reach out to us, we need to update that. There's some people when they're setting up, they don't add that Maybe they don't have a business name set up yet, or they're just like oh, like I don't need to put this in here, no biggie, I've definitely done it, but we need that business name from you so that we can get it into the web form. We're reaching out to people, obviously, but if you're on this live and you're like, ooh, I'm not sure if my business name is in there, and you log in and you see that, reach out to support at propertyleadscom and just say, hey, I need to get my business name into my dash. Do I send that here and support can definitely help you out there.
Speaker 1:Another thing I will say in that regard. If you are an individual and you have not set up an entity yet, one of the solutions that you could do is get a DBA doing business as in your personal name. So, for example, you could go, say, RJ Bates does business as RJ buys houses, submit that at the county level, and then that could be the business name that you put in, and it's essentially just a pass-through where it's still you, but you're putting a business name in there and it will work in regards to this and protecting you. So you at least have some sort of written consent from the seller. Now my question to you is how do we have access to prove that we have written consent from the?
Speaker 3:lead. You know, if it ever gets sticky with somebody, we can share the form fill. You know we capture all that information. We have a really good tracking system for that.
Speaker 1:So like if there's ever anything that pops up where somebody says, hey, I'm going, and my theory on this there are going to be known litigators from the cold calling realm that decide they want to be a known litigator in the PPL realm they might not necessarily call that, but that's what we'll call it that are going to try to catch people and say, hey, yeah, I filled out that form, but I want you to prove that you have that written consent. Case in point I've been sued multiple times for skip tracing people's information, either texting them or cold calling them, and then they already have their scam set up. You know it's not a scam. I mean, it was their right to do it. But hey, I caught you, I've got this, pay me 25 grand. And then by the end, after going back and forth, they're like listen, give me a thousand dollars and I'll go away and I'm going to be released.
Speaker 1:It's happened time and time again. I think this is going to happen in this, in this world. You know, as far as the process that y'all had to go through here I mean, was this like getting attorneys involved, or because y'all were already selling exclusive, was this a relatively simple solution for you guys to implement?
Speaker 3:It was pretty simple and, like on the yeah, we didn't have to, you know, bring in a bunch of attorneys or anything like that. I mean, we definitely reached out to folks to make sure that, like, what we were doing was correct, right, because we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing definitely reached out to folks to make sure that, like, what we were doing was correct, right, because we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. But for the most part, like we were already set up. We were already set up, you know, correctly.
Speaker 1:So it was really just building out the, you know, the hardware to get the business name into, into the web form yeah, and then the next big question that everybody in the wholesaling side of things has is what's this going to do to pricing? Is pricing going to go up or is it going to stay the same?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a good question. We're not adjusting pricing, we're not changing the minimum 125 bid to 150 to make up for anything. That's not going to happen. Changing the minimum 125 bid to 150 to like make up for anything, so that's not going to happen. You know, I guess the only thing that would drive prices up would be if there's an influx of, you know, new clients looking into PPL providers because their cold calling is going away.
Speaker 3:But frankly, I think that happened over the last two years as, like, this was coming anyways, like when we, you know, when we do onboarding calls, you know we're obviously same as like you know, when we do onboarding calls, you know we're obviously same as like a, you know, as a, you know, when you're talking to a seller, we're trying to extract motivation and a lot of times I say like, hey, like you know, cold calling is getting harder, texas is getting harder with all the law changes, like we just see that the writing's on the wall. So you know, I think that that shift has already happened. So I don't see there's going to be like an influx where the lead prices are changing dramatically. Could certain markets get more competitive? Of course that's going to be in all PPL providers like literally forever.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the inverse side of this, right, Because we have a tendency to look at changes and immediately make knee-jerk reactions to hey, there's regulations on PPL, Is that going to drive prices up? The more that I've thought about this, I've also realized that this impacts cold calling pretty significantly. This is essentially saying, hey, you cannot use robo-dialers, auto-dialers anymore. I mean, that's the way that I read it. I was on last week with Speed to Lead's attorney. I tried to get him to give me a straight answer. He didn't. He's a good attorney, you know. He was just like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean, you got to read the law and interpret it yourself. You know typical attorney BS, but I read it. It's pretty straightforward. It seems like auto-d dialers is like a no, no, no, so that means our entire industry is going to slow down on cold calling? Well, those sellers are still motivated and they need to sell their house. Is there a potential that we're going to see a more of an influx on the PPL side because there's going to be more people searching? Influx on the PPL side because there's going to be more people searching, which is your SEO? And from those searches then get hit with PPC and YouTube ads and Facebook retargeting ads, which helps you, do you?
Speaker 3:see the potential of also an influx of more leads than you're currently getting. Yeah, absolutely I think I think with like cold calling. You know, I I I didn't get a lot of deals from cold calling when I used to do it. I wasn't very good at it, frankly but I think that the idea is you're kind of getting them right before they go online, right, like at least that's what you're shooting for. So now you can't get those people anymore. I still think there's going to be people that cold call and, just you know, try to skirt the. But yes, I definitely see more leads coming in, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think, listen, I brought it up last week during the live and the chat was going crazy because I was basically announcing that cold calling was dead and people were like, listen, you can still cold call. You just run the risk of being sued, you know? I mean, it's the same with texting nowadays, right, you still can do it. It's just should you be doing it. And it's also the same thing when it comes to PPL. I think this is why it's important and for us here at Titanium, we wanted to bring in all of our PPL providers that we recommend and that we use on a daily basis, because we want to make sure one that you guys are doing the right things, that we're compliant and everyone understands how you're compliant.
Speaker 1:Now my question is you say there's a lot of things that go on on your business side. Right, the PPL side. There's been talks about, like trading leads, right, selling leads. Is that going to go away? Where? Hey? I again, I don't know if you guys ever did that or you even know about it going on, so maybe you don't know the answer, but the rumor has been that some people would generate leads and, instead of trying to sell it to a wholesaler, they would just sell it to another ppl provider. That also essentially eliminates that possibility if they want to be compliant right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the opt-in definitely gets tricky there, right? Because how do you create an opt-in when you're like the third in line, I guess? So, yeah, I mean I definitely think a lot of that goes away. Yeah, to answer your question, yeah, I think a lot of, and I think it's great that it does.
Speaker 1:Honestly, yeah, well, I mean, it was always a concern of mine where you guys approach us and you say, hey, we would like to show you what we can do with our leads, right, all right, awesome, but there's 5,000 of you guys, right, I mean, we've narrowed it down to three. And I've also narrowed it down to three for specific reasons. And the reason why I kind of stopped there is not because I didn't think some of these other people were going to be good or give me a motivated seller. It's that I didn't know, quite frankly, if they were doing things the right way. I actually have relationships. I got to meet you guys in person. Right way, I actually have relationships. I got to meet you guys in person. We talk on a regular basis Like this is it what we're talking about today?
Speaker 1:You know, we've been having this conversation for a while and making sure that this was going to be compliant. We just waited until, you know, nine days before, just so people could tune in and, you know, not ask a million questions. But yeah, I mean, I think it's very important that you understand whoever you're buying your leads for moving forward in the PPL side is outspoken about what they're doing to be compliant and make sure that you're protected. I think that's vitally important. Now talk to me how are you guys generating leads? It's just SEO and PPC and meta ads, or what are the other ways that you guys are generating leads?
Speaker 3:Yeah, picture anything under the sun in terms of inbound Organic SEO, paid ads, tv radio, you name it. Inbound, we do it Gotcha.
Speaker 1:And then on the TV and radio. Is that pushing them to a website or is that pushing them to call?
Speaker 3:You know that's a good question. I'd be lying if I said I knew the answer to that. I've never seen the ad myself. I can definitely get that answer though ads from a PBL company.
Speaker 1:I guess because I never actually searched, like needing to sell my house. I've never seen any of the ads. I'm always blown away that y'all get so many damn leads. I would assume I would have Googled something at some point that would have changed my algorithm, but I don't know. I don't ever see them. I've always wanted to know what they look like.
Speaker 3:It's possible that you saw like a branded ad and didn't know it was us. We have, you know, we have a lot of different brands out there, um, that generate leads. So it's not like propertyleadscom that generates the leads. We have, you know the house buyer side of things.
Speaker 1:So yeah, one of the things that I've always, you know, bragged about for you guys is the, the seo leads, uh, the, the power that you guys have there. I think that's what stands out about the quality of y'all's leads in comparison. I mean, is that kind of a staple of what property leads is and kind of where you feel like you differentiate yourself the most from your competition?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a great question. Yeah, I mean we get a lot of SEO leads. It definitely helps. They transfer title at a really high rate. Yeah, I mean we get a lot of SEO leads. It definitely helps. They transfer title at a really high rate.
Speaker 3:But I think equally important is that we look at title transfer to see how many of the properties are selling from the leads that we're generating. So one of the things that we learned internally was when we asked the question what's your timeframe for selling? If they say they have no timeline for selling, the title transfer is really low on those. So that's just like a question on the web form. So often we don't even sell those. The only time we'll sell a lead like that is if they say I have no timeline for selling.
Speaker 3:But they also choose like pre-foreclosure as a reason for selling. Right, like which one's accurate? Is there no timeline or is it pre-foreclosure? So like call them and see if it's a nonsense lead, we'll refund it, like if it's not actually for sale. So what we do with the title transfer is we use that to check our work Right and if we run a lead source or we run a you know, a marketing something and title transfer is not good, we just cut it. So the goal is is how do we replicate, you know, the the organic SEO title transfer with other lead channels? And we do that just by essentially filtering out the nonsense based on those questions that we ask.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great, great feedback there. A couple of questions. Matt says is it organic SEO to your website or a landing page? So this is not for us guys. This is just how they're generating. So it's SEO on their own landing pages, essentially, and then they're selling those leads to us. But again, this is for anyone that's ever received inbound leads the best inbound lead that you could ever receive is an SEO lead, because they have sought you out right. They went out and grabbed you and said, hey, I need to sell my house. This isn't like we ran an ad and said, hey, do you want to sell your house? And they filled out a form. Right, that's why it's so powerful.
Speaker 1:Is it illegal to use a dialer? Well, primal passion. Here's what I will say about that. I'm not an attorney. I cannot give you legal advice and this is not legal advice. However, when I read the regulation that's coming down on January 27th, it sure as hell seems like it's illegal to use a dialer to me.
Speaker 1:Now I have stopped cold calling altogether because I use companies like Property Leads and Speed to Lead and LeadZolo, but for me, when I talk about we're in the golden age of wholesaling, it all starts with the fact that we have industry experts that have dedicated their careers to being great at marketing for us. And then you have other people in the wholesaling industry that want to say that all wholesaling is is marketing and sales. Great, you don't even have to be good at marketing now because James is. So I just hire James and say, james, give me leads, and then you got to be good at sales. All right. So we simple bite it down. There you go, wholesaling. All you have to do is hire James, give me leads, and then you got to be good at sales. All right.
Speaker 1:So we simple bite it down. There you go, wholesaling. All you have to do is hire James, swipe your card, close deals. It can't get any easier. You don't have to do direct mail, you don't have to do cold calling, you don't have to do driving for dollars or anything like that. So you talked about the transfer of title. This is a term and a KPI that you guys solely track and talk about, which I love because it matters. So you're not saying it's a transfer of title to your customer. You're just saying that the person that raised their hand, that came to our site one way or another, sold their house in a specific timeframe, right?
Speaker 3:Correct. Yeah, I give a lot of credit to Andy on this. This is Andy's idea. Um, you know how do we check our work as a PPL company, right, whenever we're doing an onboarding call, very common question is well, what are the leads convert at? And I'm like I don't know, bro. Like, how good are you at converting?
Speaker 3:Um, it doesn't tell the whole, the entire story, right, you can take a brand new real estate investor. You know they're coming from the construction field. Like that was me at one point. Like you're not good at sales because you've just never done it yet. You get 10 leads. You should close the deal, but you don't because you're new.
Speaker 3:And they say, well, the leads suck. But then we look at the data right, like, did these properties transfer title? Right? So we sort of have a soft guarantee where if somebody's been buying leads from us for six plus months, they've purchased 50 plus leads, they've spent some cash, and they come to us and say, hey, james, the leads suck, bro. I'm like, well, they might suck, let's talk about it. We're going to look at title transfer. Title transfer tells a story that the leads do in fact suck and that we didn't do our job. We'll get you a nice credit and you can carry on buying leads or getting leads. Try to turn it around. If the data shows that the leads, that enough properties, transferred title to where we gave you enough shots to buy a house, well, we're not going to get your credit, but we're going to see what we can do to help you out with your sales process. Because if somebody bought that house and somebody made money on that house, why wasn't you, why couldn't I make money on that house if it sold to somebody?
Speaker 1:Yep, audi Luck here says RJ, can you do a video on your percentage of your contract or close for 2024 with property leads versus high speed to lead versus lead solo? It would be a fun video. It would be a fun video if there was drama to it, but there's not really a whole lot of drama. I can actually just tell it to you. It's really straightforward. I mean property leads since the day that they came to us which was what? Six, seven months ago? It was somewhere early to mid 2024. Well, actually I know it was March. Family mastermind andy was stalking me. He was waiting in the the hallway he's a creep.
Speaker 3:He is a creep, isn't he, dude? Do you know the story? Well, I told him. I was like, bro, if you don't get in and talk to rj, we're gonna have a problem did?
Speaker 1:yeah, but did he tell you how he did it? I mean, he went full creeptastic yeah, tell the story, though, let's.
Speaker 3:Let's blast him, let's do it there was a wall.
Speaker 1:All right, so imagine, my hand is like five feet. Okay, so there's a long hallway running like this, but there's like this five foot wall sticking out. And he hid right behind it and waited until I walked past him to then go the king closer. And I'm like, yes, it's so creepy that there's a man just standing behind a wall. And he was like I'm for property leads and we need to talk. And he's like I can promise you that I can get you better results than what you're currently using. And I'm like, dude, I get really good results, are you sure? And he's like I promise you and I could show you how, and I had the KPIs and I had the metrics and I had the stats. And he got very aggressive about it, was just like I could show you, with a very dry personality okay, you guys have to understand very dry personality but you could tell the man was very serious about it and I was like listen, dude, all right, I believe you, you sound very passionate about what you're doing. We'll set up a meeting with nick. So I got him and nick together and then we did the live and we totally put y'all through ringer. We were like we're going to do this whole series. We're not even going to announce its property leads until we prove it.
Speaker 1:You guys gave me 30 leads. I dialed all 30, and I closed three contracts one out of 10. Since that period of time, property leads has been consistent One out of every 10 leads is a contract. One out of every 10 leads is a contract. One out of every 10, that's the stat. Speed to lead If I buy a coupon club, that's one out of 25. Pretty consistent. If I buy any other lead from speed to lead, it's usually somewhere between one out of seven to one out of 10. Lead Zolo one out of seven, one out of 10, somewhere in that range. Very consistent.
Speaker 1:Here's what I've told you guys. When you're deciding which PPL provider you would want to use, I suggest a couple of things. One, find the one, budget-wise, that works for you right. Two, find the one that the refund policy works for your quirky personality, because I see it there's people that absolutely love that. They get really upset about refund policies, right. So look at the refund policies, see how you feel about it. Three, the new thing is pay attention to the compliance level. Okay, and then the next thing is I personally suggest that you should diversify. There's no reason why, if you have a $6,000 a month budget, you shouldn't give 2,000 in property leads, 2,000 speed lead, 2,000 lead solo, and let the stats stand on themselves and then, if you close more with property leads, go all in on property leads.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing we just asked James James, how do you generate these leads? Seo, google, pay Per Click, facebook, instagram, tv, radio. He doesn't do just one. Why would you just do one? Right, if our business is, our foundation is off of marketing and we're hiring these people to do marketing. Diversify and then pick which one works the best for you personally. For us, we have decided on these three and we're going to continue using these three. So the fact there, I love the question outie, uh, just, there's not a whole lot of drama with it. Um, let's see here. Russ says every now and then I get a lead and the person who supposedly filled out the lead form has no clue how I got their information. This does happen. So, james, maybe I've been asked this before when I've called a seller live and they're like I have have a lot of form. I mean, do you have any idea what that is?
Speaker 3:I think there's a couple of different things, you know. I think the first one is it could just be a proper spam lead, like somebody's messing with the person and they're filling out their information just to mess it, like we did. I had one once. This is like when I first started at Property Leads you know it was a refund we called the lead or the you know the seller and he's like ah, dude, my girl, my ex-girlfriend, whenever I move, she fills out 25 web forms, like just to mess with me. And I was like, oh my God, dude, that's literally hilarious. So, like that, that's one where you know that happens.
Speaker 3:Um, I suspect too, sometimes people freak out a little bit. Like they get, they get the phone call and then they panic and they're like, oh, I didn't fill out a web form. You know I last year we had this like older car I broke the key and I went on like Google and I filled out one of those like mobile locksmith things, and the guy called me and I so ridiculous, I literally did the same thing. I was like, uh, no, I don't, I don't need any man. Like I'm good, and he's like well, hold on a second, bro.
Speaker 3:Like you didn't fill out a web form, like you got you know, and I was like, all right, I did so, like I did the same thing, and I just I kind of panicked a little bit because I was like, oh, it's like stranger danger and like I don't know this guy and like what if he tries to rip me off? Like I was a little sissy man, he got me about that. I was like, oh, this dude he got me came, he made me a key freaking, got me for like 400 bucks. Man, that dude got me good dang I love it.
Speaker 1:uh, glenn tu member says um, say, a lead comes in right now I call twice, leave a voicemail text an an email. No response. Later the same afternoon the lead responds. Leave me alone, I'm not selling anymore. So I guess the question would be is that a refund? Yeah, go in, shoot straight. What is the question? Is that a refund?
Speaker 3:I think I understand the question and I think the answer, in short, is that, like we don't have enough information yet, like, like what changed, and I think, as the real estate investor like you, will greatly benefit from getting really good at overcoming what could be a sales objection there, right, like, well, hey, like, no worries, I'm not looking to buy a house that, no, you're looking to sell, but like what changed. Lol.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, hold on, he wrote us a novel here, so he provides you a proof with text and a recording of it. And then the next morning property lead reaches out to the seller and he says hell yeah, I'm selling, but now they don't respond to me anymore because they were upset yesterday. How do you guys handle those?
Speaker 3:When you say how do you handle it, Do you mean like, how do we process a refund? Like when you say handle what, do you mean he wants to?
Speaker 1:know about the money.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, I mean, for us a workable lead is a seller that confirms they're selling. So if that seller confirms to us that they're selling, okay, that's a workable lead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and again, here's my thing. When it comes to refund policies, you guys are here because you follow me. I don't talk about the refund policies that often. The facts are I come from the world where we had to spend money on dead shit all the time, right, direct mail, cold calling, data, vas. It was just we were constantly losing money. And I get it. Ppl is a little bit more expensive but, technically speaking, when I break down PPL in comparison to cold calling and direct mail and other stuff, I've always felt like it's pretty comparable. I mean, dude I'm talking about, you're saying on, the statewide is 125?.
Speaker 3:Statewide starts at 75,. I believe 75.
Speaker 1:So let's go down to countywide 125. So the most expensive is 125, and it goes all the way up to 1,000. If we said, let's just name a county that I do a lot of deals in, I don't want to put Tarrant County, because that's a pretty well, I guess let's do it. What's something like Tarrant County here in Fort Worth? Is that like $300? Yeah, I can tell you right now.
Speaker 3:Just give me one second. You know one thing on Glenn's question too. You know, I think sometimes it's frustrating when you have refunds getting declined that you feel should be approved. I feel that when I see them I'm like all right, I could totally understand how this person wants a refund. At the end of the day, the seller's selling to.
Speaker 3:What's about lead, follow the money, focus on am I making enough money with this PPL provider and I think you should apply this to any PPL, not just property. Am I making money? Andy always says you got to follow the money. Whenever I'm making decisions, you got to follow the money, and I think that's. Don't get hung up on this $200 declined refund that is going to ruin your day.
Speaker 3:If you're still getting a 5X from said PPL, I don't think it's the best use of your time. If you're making a ton of money, like you, got to kind of bake it in a little bit. Right, like I promise that we get a large percentage of refund requests that should not qualify for a refund, that that sneak through, you know, and we just we have to bake it in. So follow the money. If you're making money, bake it in. If you're not, then I agree like we have to have a in. So follow the money. If you're making money, bake it in. If you're not, then I agree like we have to have a conversation about it. But if you're getting three, four, five, six, x man, like, follow the money, the money's there, just keep working so cameron says 350 max bid I'm assuming that's for tarrant county.
Speaker 1:Say that is buy 10, that means I'm spending $3,500 and I get a deal. My average assignment fee in Tarrant County is going to range between $15,000 to $25,000. That's going to be what I make on that deal. If I'm spending $3,500, I'll do it over and over and over again. That's going to include all the oh, I didn't fill this out or this or that. I mean it, just it is what it is. Glenn says I heavily use property leads and I'd say they're the best so far from all of the other PPL providers. It's awesome. James. Is there a way for the consent to be embedded as a PDF within the email we receive with the lead info so we can record? So we can record keep as well as your company.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, a PDF of what they want, a PDF of the consent that, basically the consent that they gave that titanium investments can reach out to them. I mean, I could answer answer this. The answer is yes, they could. Anything could be done. Is it sort of something that they're currently doing? No, but that's a good idea. I mean, it's something that maybe, potentially, y'all could look at. Uh, adding in and, uh, the email that gets sent with the lead yeah, I'd be curious to why that's important.
Speaker 3:You know, is it like a fear thing, like I'm just really worried about this and like this would make me feel better, or like I have this idea because of you know, something that maybe, like we haven't considered? So I think the fear would be.
Speaker 1:Nancy, known litigator. You know that got me, you know, two years ago. She's looking at this and she's watching. You know that got me, you know two years ago. She's looking at this and she's watching. You know her tiktok algorithm is all of these. You know attorneys that tell people like, literally dude on tiktok. There are attorneys that tell you how to sue people. Like it's like you go ahead, get on the dnc and when they do this, answer the phone, keep them on the phone for this long, have them send you an email like you're a customer and then boom, you've got them.
Speaker 1:That's crazy and for $99, I'll give you this demand letter that you can send with this follow-up. I mean it's a full dude. I know this because one of those attorneys started following my TikTok and blasting me on repeat because he saw me talking to sellers and he was like this dude's a fraud. He should be sued for millions, blah, blah, blah. So I started following what he teaches and I'm like I can't believe this exists. There's going to be people that go and fill out these forms and then they're going to send demand letters to us saying prove that you had consent. Then they're going to send demand letters to us saying prove that you had consent. So we're going to be turning around and coming to you and saying, hey, james, so and so sent me a demand letter. Can you send me proof of that? That's where the fear comes from totally and we can.
Speaker 3:we can definitely do that. Um, we can definitely send that if, if it happens that's happened, by the way like people have said like hey, can you send me the form? You send me the proof of the form, phil, we're getting jammed up right now and we send what we have. I've never actually had anybody come back and say, hey, this went through and I lost X amount of dollars. Again, I can't tell you which way it landed, but I get the feeling that if somebody got smoked for quite a bit of money, they would have come back and said like hey, like something's off here. So anytime we've sent that it's, it's been sorted and we're like we've had people come after us, like on the refund side, when we're dripping people, you know they'll say like hey, you guys, you know, reached out without consent.
Speaker 1:We want X amount of dollars and we're just like, okay, here's, here's the form fill. And they're just like, oh, dang, and then they just go away. So Audi says, rj, what's your best strategy on property leads? State, nation, county For a starter website is overwhelming. So here's what I would say on this. One, you need to schedule a call with property leads team. Okay, have a conversation with them.
Speaker 1:Two it's going to come down to what type of wholesaler are you. Are you a nationwide virtual wholesaler? Do you only do deals in a specific state or are you only doing deals in a specific county? You need to go back and watch my videos in regards to hedgehog concept. You need to decide what kind of wholesaler you're going to be.
Speaker 1:I can't tell you what it's like to buy leads on a state or a county level, because I'm a nationwide wholesaler. So I'm okay with James sending me the Wyoming lead, because it's like, yeah, I mean, it sucks. He sent me a lead in Wyoming and it's a mobile home and it's literally in the middle ofwater County and no one buys there. But I also get deals in Daytona Beach. I also get deals in New Jersey. I get deals in places where there's plenty of buyers. So that's because that's what I chose to do. Now again, going back to the meeting with property leads, james, I'll let you talk about this, but I'm assuming you guys talk about budget and what they're looking to accomplish, right, and kind of point them in a direction.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd be really curious to know what's overwhelming so that we can maybe try to fix it. If you could set up an onboarding call with with one of the guys you know they'll kind of run you through what we offer, they'll ask you some questions about your goals and then they'll sort of guide you on what. What is the best fit you know kind of general rule of thumb is the net. You know the national state level leads are going to be a little bit easier to lock up, maybe a bit more challenging to dispo. The county specific leads are probably going to be a little harder to lock up because there's more competition, but maybe a little easier to dispose as long as you get it at a good price. So I think, like RJ said, it just depends on your goal. Your budget matters. You know how long you can maintain that budget and then just you know kind of your grit to sticking it out because it could take some time if you're brand new.
Speaker 1:Tell everybody. You got to commit for 90 days, minimum 90 days, consistent deals, leads coming in. Too many counties don't know what has the most traffic. So again, audi, this is one of those things that when you're making this decision, it needs to be based around what is your budget starting off with? So for me, this is why, when I put together a plan, I start with this is how much I'm willing to spend, and then from there, how many opportunities does that give me and how many can I anticipate closing on that? And then what's my percent that makes it to the closing table. So if we were to look at this and we were to say, nationwide, it's going to be $75 or $55 or whatever, it depends on when you're buying them. It fluctuates, right, when you put yourself at a price point, I would suggest putting it at the higher price point so you have a little bit extra at the end. Anticipate what that is. Reverse engineer how many leads does that give you? If I close one out of 10, say, you're half as good as me. You close one out of 20, you'll realize that you're going to be profitable on this, right? Um, and then you have to anticipate, like james said, because it's nationwide, it'll be a little bit harder to dispo.
Speaker 1:Leverage the network right. Leverage our free Facebook group, the Vault. Ask people hey, is there anybody that has buyers in here? Are you a buyer in this location? Or, with the free investor lift, nowadays you can also rent buyers in locations, but there's never a right or wrong answer to that question. We have people inside of that are killing it on nationwide, statewide and countywide. Right, I believe the land is on statewide in Arizona. Um Caesar says Steve from property leads is my guy Very helpful and we'll get you the right stuff based on what you want to accomplish. There you go. Love seeing that.
Speaker 1:Steve's awesome yep um, ppl is dead and you're going to jail. They speaking on it right now in congress. What a glorious comment. I really appreciate your enthusiasm. Um, we all disagree and, uh, also those the law disag. James, are you going to jail anytime soon?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I hope not. I'm too pretty for jail.
Speaker 1:I don't plan on going to jail. That was funny. Is there a monthly fee for property leads?
Speaker 3:No monthly fee. You do a two lead deposit to get started. That's based on your highest price county. So if you're bidding 125, you do a 250 deposit. That gets you going. You know, buy as many leads as you want. Pause don't buy leads.
Speaker 1:If you cancel, we'll just refund you james, you want to see me rant raid for a second? Yeah, let's do it. So home coordinator says ambassador, lift sucks. The only thing that sucks is your spelling okay, because it's lift with an I, not y. Second, systems don't suck. All right, the users suck. This is like literally staring at a screwdriver and saying this screwdriver sucks, no, you just don't know how to fucking use it. All right, every system that I use works.
Speaker 1:I show it live, including InvestorLift, propertylead, speedily, leadzolo, all of them. The facts are, if you don't know how to use the tool and you say it sucks, you need to enhance your skill set. That's it. You need to get better. All property leads does is get a seller to raise their hand and say I have a property that I need to sell. All InvestorLift does is give us the contact information for someone that has previously purchased a property and is a known cash buyer. From there, it's not going to dispo the deal for you. It's your obligation to get in contact with them, be good at marketing, be good at building relationships and know how to sell a deal.
Speaker 1:I would assume, based off of this comment, you probably don't know how to get good deals. That's probably the problem. So InvestorLift probably doesn't suck, because if it did, they wouldn't be repeatedly charging people like me $50,000 a year to use. We would say this sucks and I'm not going to give you $50,000 anymore. However, I have no problem doing that because it makes me millions of dollars every year. However, I have no problem doing that because it makes me millions of dollars every year. So, no, investorlift does not suck, and neither do any of the other systems that I use. Now to the admins can you please block that?
Speaker 3:person, so they can no longer watch any of my content. You played yourself, congratulations.
Speaker 1:You played yourself, man. I just another wholesaler backdoored me. I had a property under contract. The wholesaler called the seller and stole my deal and posted it on investor lift today. So two things on that. One a deal cannot be posted on investor lift if it's already posted on investor lift. So I question how that's even feasible. Two you getting backdoored is not InvestorLift's fault, it's your fault.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's happened to me. I've done that. I messed up. Once I reached out to a guy I was like, hey, I got this deal. You want to go 50-50? It was in an area I didn't do deals in. The guy went and locked up the deal and I was mad.
Speaker 1:I was like oh he backed toward me and I was like, wait a second, like I didn't lock up the deal. I did that. I posted my deal on a Facebook ambassador group and he found it. So what does this have to even do with investor lift? Facebook groups are the worst place to try to sell deals.
Speaker 1:You don't do a lot of dispo. Why Not only you, but not a lot of content out there? I've actually done live dispositions on here. I have multiple videos doing that. Why do I not do that? Because it's very anticlimactic.
Speaker 1:I mean, a lot of dispositions is hey, james, are you a buyer in Tampa Florida? I sure am Awesome, I've got a deal. I'd like to send it over to you. Cool, let me check it out. Awesome, hey, I'd like to go walk the property. I mean, if you guys want to watch that, I don't really think it's going to be riveting. We've tried to make it good, but I think the acquisition side is a lot more important and also, um viewer count and likes and comments has also showed that that's the case. So to a certain degree, we gotta, you know, play to the audience. Uh, glad you saw the sarcastic funny in my comment. Great job, I did not see it, but um appreciate you guys. Hey, you guys got me all riled up today. No, james complimented the titanium crusade. I love you guys. Y'all are so awesome and kind and I don't know. Today's crowd came in like raring to go jay. What'd you do to him, james? I?
Speaker 3:don't know man, I did something jeez crazy.
Speaker 1:All right, man. So future of p, or actually let's just talk about property leads. Future of property leads Do you see anything changing, moving forward, or is this just going to be pretty much business as usual?
Speaker 3:Business as usual. In terms of what changes, I suspect that, like anything that pops up, there's going to be things that we don't expect that happen after we run this for a few months and we'll make adjustments. Um, I think for anybody worried about this that buys leads from us, just know that, like we're on this, we have a lot of really smart people that work for us and they care about you guys, and you know we would never like let anything happen. You know when we have the information that we need to make changes. So you know we've got you guys. You know, if you ever run into anything where somebody's coming after you reach out to us, we'll get you the information that we have so that you can send it to them and just say like, hey, like you know, here's the form, phil. Like, see you, smell you later.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing, phil, like see ya, smell you later. And here's the thing that I I'll wrap up with this. I absolutely have loved working with property leads for various different reasons. One, you guys provide good leads and it's a service that works and we've been able to make money off of it. Two, on the affiliate side of things, full transparency on who's bought leads, how many leads they buy and the refunds. We see that on our side so we can actually see the refunds that are going in and out and see what that looks like.
Speaker 1:So, from an educator standpoint, I'm able to go in and talk to the community about how we can better get in contact with these. How do we navigate those situations? And then you guys have regularly reached out to us not the other way around and asking about what can we do better on our side, what have been the results from inside of Titanium and what's the feeling overall about property leads? That means a lot to us because, quite frankly, not everybody in this industry really cares right. They just care about their bottom line and they're managing that. You guys are actually looking at it from an overall vantage point of like, hey, if titanium is educating these people on how to use property leads. We want to get their feedback and we want to know what the results are inside the community. So, man, thank you so much. It means a lot to us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we appreciate that. It's funny Everybody at property leads has been burned by somebody in the real estate space at some capacity, which is very interesting. So I think naturally we're all very sensitive to less than stellar products being sold in the space. So it's important to us to be aligned with people of you know really good products and that we also, you know, provide a good product and give people a shot to buy a house. That's the rule in house. If you give this person a shot to buy a house, yes or no, the answer is yes, we did our job. If the answer is no, we need to do better, and that's all I want from you guys.
Speaker 1:I just want you to give me contact information for someone that says yes to the first question I asked them, which is do you have a house that you want to sell? I sure do. From there on, it's my job. We're definitely going to have people that don't want to sell for a discount. I'm not looking for you to only get me leads on people that have a discount right. That just comes and it's going to work within the marketing efforts that you guys do, and you do it really well.
Speaker 1:James man, I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us to talk about these regulations. I'm excited to see what the future holds with property leads. Also, I have to give you a specific shout out. I did a video a couple of months ago. It's paper lead dead for wholesaling. I think it was November or October. I basically ripped your entire response inside of Family Masterminds group and made it my own. I think I gave you credit for it, but maybe not. I don't know. Maybe I plagiarized the whole thing, who knows, maybe I went full Zach Gant on you, I don't know. But that video did great man. It had like 11,000 views and hopefully today's video does just as well, because I appreciate you taking the time to sit down with us yeah, we love that you guys keep us involved.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, we're very transparent with everything we want to, you know, and we want everybody to feel that.
Speaker 1:So we love you guys. Okay, last question the dude that's getting banned. Anyways, we'll just answer his last question before we get him banned. How do we know? You won't just say they filled out another form as an excuse to sell the same lead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, listen, it could happen. In short, somebody could be out there doing that. We don't benefit from doing that because at some point somebody catches us, it doesn't pass the sniff test and you can't do that super often in the real estate space before everybody knows. It just doesn't benefit us long-term to do that. The thinking is very short term and it sounds like you're just not a good fit. Honestly, if you said, have a call with me, I wouldn't even onboard you. You can go cold call and that's okay, because then you control your marketing, you know exactly what's going on and everybody wins.
Speaker 1:I will tell you straight up, home coordinator hard pass on property leads Definitely a hard fuck. No for titanium university, bro. Peace, see y'all. That's our video. We'll see you guys, tomorrow.