Just How Boring Are You? Jeremy launches a new book

Jeremy Fisher launches his new book called "Just How Boring Are you? How to be a great podcast guest, captivate your listeners and polish your vocal skills".
In this bonus podcast episode Jeremy is interviewed by Karen Merstik-Michaels - singer, musician, social media manager and podcast host, on why he wrote the book and what potential podcast guests can learn from it

0:00 A bonus podcast episode
01:07 Overcoming crippling shyness
02:49 Applying music skills to spoken voice
03:37 Why podcasting is different from public speaking
05:24 Jeremy's first big radio interview - a lesson
06:19 Most common mistake for podcast guests
11:07 Five Minute Vocal Warmup + Microsoft Headquarters
16:53 Harvard research on hating the sound of your voice
18:29 The worst habit Jeremy has changed
20:00 "Not just my opinion" - Jeremy's special interviews

You can get your copy of the ebook "Just How Boring Are You" PLUS all the Mp3s of the Five Minute Vocal Warmup on this link: https://bit.ly/JustHowBoringAreYou 


You can find out about our Teacher Pathway for singing teachers, vocal coaches and choir leaders here 
https://vocalprocess.co.uk/teacher-accreditation/

We've also got this ↓ 

For the best self-guided learning, check out the Vocal Process Learning Lounge - 22 years of vocal coaching resources (over 600 videos) for less than the price of one private singing lesson. 
Click on the link https://vocalprocess.co.uk/learning-lounge/learning-lounge-level-2-deep-dive/
 
If you want to discover if our singing teacher training programme works for YOU, message us - we can share the process for joining Cohort24. https://www.cognitoforms.com/VocalProcess1/TheAccreditationProgramme 

Get the One Minute Voice Warmup app here, it's got a 4.9star rating 
Appstore https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/one-minute-voice-warmup/id1212802251 
Google Play https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=co.speechtools.warmup&hl=en_GB  
 
Check out our Voice Journal, written with Rayvox's Oren Boder https://www.rayvox.co.uk/products/voice-journal?ref=VOCALPROCESS 
 
Find us - follow us on the socials! 
🐦 Twitter - https://twitter.com/Vocalprocess   
📸 Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/vocalprocess  
📖 Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/vocalprocess

Transcript

This is A Voice, a podcast with Dr. Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher. This is A Voice. Hello and welcome to This Is A Voice, Season 9, Episode 6A. The bonus podcast where we get vocal about voice. I'm Jeremy Fisher. And I'm Dr. Gillyanne Kayes. So why are we doing a bonus, a little bonus episode? Jeremy, you've written a new book, haven't you?

I've written a new book. So we're talking about the book. Oh, and it's not about singing. It's not about singing. Not this time. No, this one we're, we're going very meta on this. We are currently doing a podcast on a book about how to be a great podcast guest. And do you know what, because I've been sort of living with the genesis of this book for several months,

I'm actually going to let Karen Merstik-Michaels, who's our wonderful social media manager, talk to you about the book instead of me. 

I am chatting with Jeremy Fisher and we are chatting about his new book. Just how boring are you?

And we certainly hope that you're not. And I think Jeremy, the entire reason you wrote this is to make sure that you're not. Is that right? Absolutely. Yes. I mean, it's actually the full title is Just How Boring Are You? How to become a great podcast guest, captivate your listeners and polish your vocal skills.

I'm well, come on. You're like the perfect person to talk about this. So let's get into the questions that I've come up with for you. Yes. And which is a perfect segue into what inspired you to write this book and, and what do you hope your readers will gain from it? I actually do have a personal story.

I was very boring. I was very boring as a child. No, as a child, as a teenager, very shy, very boring. I was so shy, because I started life as a piano player. And when I was sort of, I did my first concert at nine and I was so shy that I couldn't even introduce the piece and my mother had to get up on stage and introduce it for me.

And then when I went to music college, when I went to music college when I was 17, I still hadn't got over the shyness thing. And I was constantly being told you have to speak louder. We can't hear you speak up, speak up, speak up. and I have that. Now obviously I run my own podcast with Gillyanne and I go and present all over the world.

I do all sorts of things. And so it was very much that I wanted people to know some of the techniques that I've learned over the years in a way that wouldn't take them years to learn.

Oh my gosh, I love that. I mean, taking years to learn. Sometimes it feels like we, we have all this knowledge as performers or as, you know, musicians and artists, but applying it to just talking is a completely different animal, isn't it interesting? 

It is, it is. I mean that this, what fascinates me is the whole transfer of skills thing, because as a musician you know about structure, you know about tempo, you know about pauses, you know about dynamics, you know about all these things. You also know, if you're a singer, you know about lyrics.

And all of these things, performance energy, communication with the audience, all sorts of things that you do as a singer and you don't even realize that these are skills. And a lot of these are transferable into the spoken voice world, but not all of them, and not in the, in the same way. Absolutely. So I've been doing a whole load of coaching of, speakers love coaching voiceover artists, love coaching people who do scripts, all of that.

So, and I've done quite a lot of that. And I thought this is really interesting. And then of course, podcasting came along. Yes. I mean, we have just recorded, I think on 96th episode. 

Oh my lord, Jeremy, that's amazing. 

And that's been really fascinating doing that over the last two, three years because really podcasting is conversational.

And I think it's the difference between public speaking and podcasting. Public speaking is very much you're out there, you're presenting, you are speaking to normally in a large room, you're speaking to a large group of people. There are certain techniques that you use, whether you're on microphone or not, there are certain techniques you can use.

That's right. 

Podcasting is very different. Podcasting is conversation. 

It's almost like we're talking to the people right in the room. Yeah. They just happen to not be in the room at the moment, right? 

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, if you podcast by yourself, then you're talking directly to one person. You're talking to somebody's ear essentially. If you have more than one person, like we're doing now, where we have a conversation and people eavesdrop. 

Right, right, right, right. 

The fascinating thing is if you are using some of the techniques that you use in public speaking, you're not doing it right. Because public speaking is about projection and, and, and energy and, and, you know, sharing on a big stage and podcasting is absolutely not that because of the microphone being right here.

Right. It's so much more of an intimate experience. 

Oh, absolutely. Even to the point of I'm not going to say there's a podcast voice, but the first time I did a radio interview, which was a few years ago now, I was, I was prepared. I was going to do my thing. I'd got all my voice techniques done. I was ready to go.

And I thought that what people needed was real power and strength and clarity of voice. So then when I went into the studio and I heard all the project, all the presenters talking like this and I went, Oh, I have got that so wrong. Because what they're doing is really close mic work and very intimate, because essentially the microphone goes straight to your listeners ear.

That's right. 

And if they, if they have headphones or they have AirPods or anything like that, you are literally going straight into their ear. So you don't need to shout. 

Wow. And I love that so much. And I love the idea of it going straight into your ear. Like that, that is really capturing my, my brain and, and, and almost distracting me, but I love that so much.

Well then what, this is a perfect segue to what are the most common mistakes people make when they are guests on podcasts, and how do they avoid them, Jeremy? 

The biggest one is not knowing who your host is, and actually it's not even, you know, oh, my host's name is this. It's not knowing what their style is.

It's not knowing what they love doing. It's not knowing their method of communication. Because really what you want to do as a guest is to match your host in some way. 

Ah, almost like a duet. 

Oh, yeah. And again, you see the music skills come in. I, my entire life is as a collaborative pianist. That's what I do.

I was, I mean, the old, the old word was accompanist, except I never accompanied anyone. I was there. I wasn't behind them. I wasn't walking three steps behind, please. So that's, I mean, one of my skills is taking what somebody does, and going, Oh, is that what you want to do with it? Okay, great. Let's, let's go further with this.

Let's find out what we can do with it. And I think I say this in the book. One of the things that I'm used to doing is taking the same song and working it with 20 different people. Mmm. It's never the same song. 

I love that. 

I mean, the whole point, even, even working with one person singing the same song over a week, it's still never the same song.

Right, right. The evolution that can occur as, as a performer and then as, then what the audience gets, that's a beautiful thing to think about. 

Absolutely. And, you know, the audience brings its own energy. It took me a long time to learn this. The audience brings its own energy. This, it's a difficulty with podcasting because it's such a, an immediate radio broadcast closed system, if you like. It's a closed circuit. So it's you and the podcast host and you, you're not aware of what the audience is doing, but you are aware that there is an audience and they are listening. 

Absolutely. 

Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm just used to dueting. 

I, I just love that. I mean, obviously your background in music and vocal performance influences the techniques that you share in your book, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I do, the book is packed with techniques, I didn't want to do a what you do, I wanted to do a how you do it. 

So I love that so much because often we hear about what to do, but once you're, in my opinion, once you're at a certain level of technique, now I need to know more.

I need to know, well, what else do I need to do as the podcaster or speaker? What do I need to do in order to achieve this next level or to achieve that technique properly? 

Yeah. There's some, there's some very simple cause we're, we're talking about what the things that people do or they get wrong, or they don't handle very well.

I mean, another of them, which is, and this is a personal taste thing more than anything is you don't talk over your host all the time.

That is so hard. 

Yeah, I know. I mean, because the thing is when people get excited and they get interested, there's a lot of cross talk. And if you're going to do cross talk, I'm fine with it, but don't do it for very long. Because what happens when you're listening on radio, or you're listening on headphones, or you're listening to a podcast broadcast is that you don't really make out what two or three people are saying at the same time. It's much better to take it in turns. And it's like, once you know that you go, Oh, Oh, that means I've got to say a sentence and then stop. 

It's so true. It's a, it's a, it's almost like a unique kind of conversation, right? Because I'm definitely that person that loves to jump in and loves to make sure that I heard you and that I'm responding to you because then that feels like connection. However, in the podcast world of interviewing, the, it's the silence of the questioner, I think, that then allows the guest to really expand. And so as the guest, you want to really make sure that you're, you're doing that expansion of thought and you're doing it in the space that the host is letting you do that, right? 

I love that. Yes, absolutely. Exactly that. And you provide, as a host, you're providing an arena. And so, and this is also why I like the idea that, you know, one of the things, one of the strongest things you can do as a guest is to find out more about your host.

And it's and actually I have exercises in and, and ideas and topics in the book about exactly how to identify what your host does and who your host is and what level of energy they have and how you can match it or change it. It's really interesting. So I, I have created a lot of new exercises for this book.

I love that. In fact, I would love for you to elaborate a little bit on the important of the vocal exercises and, and, you know, what we can physically do to transform our podcasting or public speaking skills to a level that where people it's, to me, it's almost like the invisible thing where people don't realize the amount of work that goes into the warmup or the prep for doing this. So could you elaborate a little bit on that for us? 

Absolutely. In the book, I actually have a whole five minute vocal warm up for people who don't normally do vocal warm ups. We are using the Five Minute Vocal Warmup that we created for the Microsoft trainers at Microsoft Headquarters UK.

We were invited in to help them because Those trainers were having to do presentations above room noise, above computer noise, above air conditioning noise, and they were losing their voices. And they were presenting and teaching and training seven to eight hours a day, six days a week, and plus travel all over Europe.

And so we were brought in basically to say, how can we help them? And we created a a whole load of exercises. And we put them together in a five minute vocal warmup, which became, I think, our first CD at Vocal Process. Oh, wow. That's a long time ago. And what I decided to do was to put the whole thing in the book.

So I've transcribed everything and everybody gets the mp3 files as well. So you hear me taking you through all the exercises. And one of the biggest things, one of the most important things you can do, I think, Oh, by the way, just before I go into this. I have listened to a lot of podcasts. While I was, while I was writing this book, I was listening to a lot of podcasts.

Goodness me, there are some shocking voices out there. And it's like, you give me a shocking voice, I am not going to listen. Thank you. I've had enough. I've had enough of the creaks and groans. Thank you. Bye. So it's very interesting because podcasting is really, it's an audio thing. I mean, we are videoing this and in fact, Gillyanne and I video all our episodes now, but it is really designed as an audio form and therefore everything is in the sound of your voice.

Everything. So all the messages that you want to give and the thing for me, the number one thing is clarity. Mm hmm. And it's actually clarity of tone. There is a phrase in the UK, which you're going to love, and it's called shit in, shit out. And that is, if you're going to produce some dreadful noise, the microphone is not going to help you.

It's like, it's just going to record exactly what you do. 

It is so mean because that is exactly what it does. How come you aren't making me sound better?

Yeah. I mean, of course, you know, an engineer can do certain things. An engineer can change the sound that you make. But what's so fascinating about the podcasters that I've talked to is that it's a very intense form to put out.

So it's very intense to edit stuff. And if you're going to make your editor's life really difficult, you ain't going to be asked back. 

That's right. That, that is so well said. And it's, I mean, you and I both do our own editing and then, and then get feedback and so forth. And it is, obviously we know ourselves inside and out. And yet sometimes I just think why in the world did I just do that? I wish I could go in and just punch in. Of course we can, but it's, then that becomes its own ball of wax as well, you know. 

Oh, the punching where you drop in something that you recorded later. Yeah, actually matching that up is a real challenge.

It really is. I did Why Do We Need a Vocal Coach is the book before this one, and I did the audible version of it, so I recorded the whole book. 

Oh, wow. 

And doing the drop ins was a real challenge, so I did my absolute utmost not to do any drop ins because they're so difficult to match up. 

It is. Harder than singing. Isn't that weird? 

Yes, much harder than singing. 

Really informs me about the speaking voice and the energies and the levels. And, and clearly when you first told me about this book, I was like, Oh my gosh, first of all, I know 10 people I want to send it to. Good. And And, and, and of course, even just use it myself as I get further into the podcast world.

I love it myself. I, you know, I'm obviously it's a natural for so many singers to use their voice for voiceover and podcasting and so forth. So, okay. Why don't you tell me where we're going to find this, how we can buy it and what should we do about all that? I have a link. It is actually in our Teachable account.

So we have a Teachable account online where all of our courses are. And we put 

That's where the Learning Lounge is, right? 

That's where the Learning Lounge is. Yeah. And if you haven't come across the Learning Lounge, the Learning Lounge is well over 600 resources, all of which to do with vocal technique.

We have song databases, we have courses, masterclasses, I mean, just all sorts of things. The Learning Lounge is up on Teachable and also on Teachable is where you can get the book. So I will put the link in, in the show notes, in the descriptions, in whatever we decide to do with this.

I'll put the link up there. And in fact, you get the book, it's an ebook, so you get the download immediately. Wow. And if you get it on Teachable, then you also get access to the MP3s of all the exercises that I'm putting in and they will come at you like one a day. with all sorts of instructions. So yeah, so it's, it's really good.

There's one thing, I think there's one piece of information that I absolutely loved when I was researching this, and it is a research project that was done by Harvard Medical Center. They examined, I think 1500 people and they basically they recorded their voice and then they played played it back to them.

Of that 1500 people, over 50 percent said they hated the sound of their voice. That's an enormous number of people. And in fact, if you read the paper, they hated the sound of their voice and they were open to, you know, correction up to and including surgery. That's one of the reasons why my book is here.

It's like most of the time you don't need surgery to start liking your voice. Absolutely. And plus, as you and I well know, as voice teachers, people don't, they, they, what they hear, what we hear as singers is not what the exterior audience hears, right? Because through bone conduction and all of those things.

And so I know for myself, I always recommend to my singers and speakers, record your voice, listen back, don't judge, simply edit, right? So that, that way you also get accustomed to listening to it. But, but sometimes it can even with myself and I've recorded a lot of things that I've listened to and it can be quite jarring to realize some of the things that we're doing that we could just simply make one or two small changes and then do them better.

Absolutely. I have to tell you there's one habit that I have now stopped since I started podcasting. 

What is that?

I used to do this a lot. In fact, not just a lot at the beginning of every sentence. Oh my gosh. And the fascinating thing is it's not until you start editing your own voice that you go, Oh, there's a habit there.

And once you notice that there's a habit, that's it. You can't, you can't hear anything else. No, you can't unhear it. Entirely focused. Yep. Yep. So, yes, that was fun. So now, and the thing is, I knew what it was. It's that what's so fascinating is when I'm listening to somebody, I close my mouth. And I close it quite tight because I don't particularly want my voice to be heard while somebody else is talking.

And what would then happen is it would be the suction that was inside would cause me to smack my lips. Now I know I do that, I'm not doing it. 

And you're right, that's hilarious. And it also is just true. It's, it's when we learn, I think it's the best skill we can learn. Don't judge, Simply edit, listen with an open mind and open heart, right?

That just allows you to say, Oh, I'm doing X. I would like to do Y or not do X. So then take action. And let's face it. The best way to take action is when you have education. And that's why friends, this book. is so important. 

This book is good. 

Also, there's one more thing that's in the book, and I felt very strongly about this.

Obviously, 70 percent of the book is my opinion and my exercises and my working through the thing. And also because I have a lot of experience on working with people in this situation, both as guests and hosts, I also decided that I wanted to interview some other people. And so the end of the book, I actually interviewed five people for this version.

I am planning a second edition where I'm going to be interviewing more people. And that was very interesting. So I interviewed somebody who is a podcast host, podcast guest and podcast creator. About what he thinks. And that was really fascinating. That's Danny Iny from Mirasee. And he is the overseer for, I don't know, 20 different podcasts.

And in fact I'm going to be a guest on one of the new ones that he's putting together very soon. That'd be fun. And also I interviewed two producers. who also, one of them is the oversee producer for 15, 15 or 20 podcasts, and one of them is a producer on several of them, but does all the hands, real hands on stuff.

Wow. And that was really fascinating because it was so nice that they, we had a long conversation and most of which I've reproduced in the book. And it was so nice because I was on the money, you know, they agreed with the, the, the, the things that I was talking about. They went, Oh yes. Oh yes. We hate that.

Oh, we hate it when people do that. And so we were talking about what people do and how, how they can change it. And then I had an interview with Jackie Lapin of Speakertunity and her job is basically to get people podcasting opportunities. She has, she has a whole range of speakers and she helps them market themselves. She, you know, there's all sorts of things that she does. And finally, I talked to Bruce Chamoff, who is the owner creator of the World Podcast Network. 

Oh, wow. 

Yeah, that was fun. That was really interesting. And he's a very interesting guy. And he's also a musician. Yes, I know who he is. I, that's the, that's the only part of the book that I, I haven't read yet was your interviews and You know, that's when it really, the interviews tend to really bring together all the ideas and thoughts that you already had.

And plus, validation is not a bad thing, right? Absolutely. It was so nice. Yeah. And it was so fascinating talking to Bruce. We actually ended up talking for almost an hour and that went on his podcast. It wasn't intended to, but we had such a good time, such an interesting time. And then Two of our latest podcasts, mine and Gillyanne's, This is a Voice Podcast, have been staff picks on the World Podcast Network in the last month.

Oh my gosh, nice. 

I'm really thrilled. Yeah. So that's really good. So I have more plans but the, this version is out. It's out now. Okay. It's on Teachable. I will give you the link for it. Follow the link that'll be in the, in the show notes and it'll take you straight there.

Absolutely. Yes. 

Yay. It's always wonderful to chat with you, Jeremy. So much fun talking about this. I love this book. As I said, I've been reading it and applying it myself and, and I will be sharing it in my newsletter, which goes out today or tomorrow kind of depends on my, the rest of my schedule for the day, but yes, we'll be sharing it.

And off to the races you go. Yeah. 

Thank you. Thank you friend. Bye