There's a character in Terry Pratchett whose mind is so wide open that everything falls into it.
And I love the idea that all of these ideas are sleeting around in the atmosphere and you just have to catch one. I honestly think that's what songwriters are. We just have to be there. and if you don't get into a studio or get it down, it will go to someone else.
And I think that's really lovely. And I think as well, you know, like that song, for instance, Help You Stay, I wrote that song because of something that me and my friend were going through and it was a, it was a kind of therapy for me. But now It's everybody else's, and everybody else has their own experiences and emotions from that song, and that's now, you know, that part of the song that's mine, will always be mine, but that song's not mine anymore, that's for everybody else, and I think that's what's so beautiful about art and about creativity, is you kind of, it sort of happens to you and around you, and you, you kind of, you're as much, a spectator or enjoying it as you are the creator.
This is A Voice, a podcast with Dr. Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher.
Hello and welcome to This is a Voice, season nine, episode seven. The podcast where we get vocal about voice. I'm Jeremy Fisher. And I'm Dr. Gillyanne Kayes. We have a very special guest with us today. DJ, singer, performer, leader, podcast host, uh, singer songwriter. It's all sorts of things that you do. Ruth Royal.
Hello, Ruth. Welcome. Hello. Thanks for having me. I've got a very strong memory of meeting you, Ruth, on I think it was the Singing and the Actor course that we did here at our place, you know, this blonde, angelic, young woman. I think you had your own band then, am I right? Very possibly, yeah. Yeah, I mean it's a long time ago, might even have been as long ago as 2012. Yeah, I think so. And then, I think, you know, maybe we didn't see you for a bit, you did other things. I then remember you coming on our, Singing Teacher Training Course, the Singing Teacher Training Retreat, and doing a rather awesome exercise, as your demonstration.
This is my go to exercise for my students. Somehow you've gone from there. You wrote a book about the voice. I did. It's a really neat little pocketbook. I have to say. With some excellent help from you guys. Thank you. And I was just so impressed with your organization, the way you seem to be organizing other singers, you seem to be running choral groups and workshops, in Bristol where you live, and you were teaching as well.
And then of course everything changed in the you know what and some of those things couldn't happen anymore and yet you did this incredible pivot from what I can see that it's almost like you went back to a performing career which most people kind of weren't doing at that point and you started writing and a whole, it's been a whole explosion of stuff since then.
I mean talk about a portfolio career. Par excellence. I mean, you know, this is a person to follow. So do you want to just say something about that whole journey?
Yeah. I mean, it's been, it has been a long journey, hasn't it since we first met. And, I definitely did a big pivot when we went into lockdown, actually, I think I had the ability and the space to focus completely on songwriting, which then kind of catapulted me into what I'm now doing and got me known as an artist. And I put some releases out that did really well. I was collaborating with much bigger artists than myself that sort of helped my audience grow. And I think then once we came out of lockdown and were able to start doing shows again.
I kind of had this little platform that I could work with and I've sort of grown it from there. and it's been great. it's been really exciting. I've, I've definitely, I think my entire career, I have gone with the flow. I have just sort of what feels good, what I'm excited about, what gets me excited and I've gone down that route. So it has ended up having quite a varied career of lots of different things, which I'm glad about, you know, cause they all inform each other.
I mean, we should say that if people haven't come across you, that you are essentially, actually, you're a very eclectic singer, but you live really in the drum and bass area.
I do. Talk to us about that. Well, I didn't used to where, you know, when I met you both, I was, I was doing a lot of jazz vocals. I was doing a lot of soul, neo soul, and that's, that's really where I trained my voice. that would be how I would consider myself as a singer. but then I started working with drum and bass artists.
So, in 2018, I auditioned because I was doing, I was doing a lot of session vocal, stuff up in London. I was doing a lot of like studio advert work, backing singing, things like that, and a lot of private function work. And so I got asked to audition for, a duo called Fred V and Grafix.
it was really interesting because at the time it was, have you ever seen that film Sliding Doors? So I had an audition for Fred V and Grafix to front their live project. and they're a drum and bass duo, quite a big drum bass duo. And I also had an audition to be a backing singer for Emeli Sandé.
And if I'd have got one or the other, my life would look completely different now. And I always think about that moment. I love when you have those points where life could go in very different directions. It really, really could, you know, and the Emily Sandé tour would have been amazing and would have taken me off much more down the
you know, session vocalist, backing singer route and done some amazing tours there. And the Fred V and Grafix platform definitely took me down the artist route because I got the job and we did this amazing tour. did loads of stuff around Europe and did some UK festivals.
and it was, it was a live drum and bass. and I, I became very close with Josh Grafix, one of the duo, and we started writing together and it just felt really natural. And I think because I, I've always listened to dance music. I grew up in Bristol and I grew up, you know, I grew up around drum and bass and jungle and it was sort of music that I really enjoyed.
it just felt like going swimming downstream. And so. I went with it, you know, and I started, I started getting approached by loads of, loads of different artists. I then released, a track with Ekko and Sidetrack, who I still work with a lot, Pola and Bryson, and people really started to get to know my name.
And that was from that Fred V and Grafix tour. and then I decided that I wanted to Doing my own, my own releases and kind of went down that route and got a bit more into production and a bit more into kind of creating my own sound. and here we are now. There's so much that you've said in there that I want to unpack.
First thing is, let's talk about collaboration because you do a lot of it. So collaboration seems to be built into the drum and bass sort of arena. Is that true? Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, the main way that we perform our music is DJing, which is essentially playing each other's music, playing each other's tunes, so that takes away the competition, which I love, you know, it's like you, you play someone's tune, and they're there at your show, and they'll be like, yeah, that's my tune, or you'll get them off on stage with you.
And as a vocalist, you are able to, sing on other people's tunes, you know, producers work with you, that it's kind of, it's really normal to do that. and I love that because it means that you can explore so many different areas of the genre, but also you're making friends, you know, you're making connections, you're in studio with different people all the time.
And when I'm touring, You always end up writing with whoever you're touring with, you know, you'll be touring with a couple of other DJs or something and you'll end up getting into studio and then you'll test the tune out live and then they'll come up on stage with you and it's just this lovely kind of synergy, between all the artists and it's lovely for the fans as well, because they see all these little connections when I started Josh Grafix, who was the first person that I started really collaborating with, we still work together.
You know, I opened for his, album launch. we have a really lovely relationship where we keep making music together. We keep doing shows together and our fans love that relationship. They're like, Oh, Ruth and Josh are going to be doing a show together, or they're going to be at this festival, or that's really exciting. I think it's such a positive part of the dance music scene.
I find this fascinating because, what one picks up sort of from outside the industry is that, it's hugely difficult to, make it, whatever that means, and then, one gets signed with a label and then you're kind of boxed in, and that can cause problems sort of down the road if you want to be more creative. For instance, you've already said that your, you know, your original training was more of a soul y vibe. And I hear that in the bottom of your voice, even in the latest, your favorite track. Yeah. I hear that. but this genre allows you to collaborate and grow in a different way and support each other and grow your audiences. I think that's how I got known was through collaborating with other artists.
And I think that's how a lot of artists come up through the scene. I think drum and bass is very different to a lot of other dance music genres. And I mean, I work as a writer as well, so I often write for other artists, in other genres. And, you know, to kind of have a little bit of a window into, into other scenes.
And there's something extremely communal about drum and bass and it, from the artists but also from the audience, people like to see that community and like to see that growth together. I think it's a great thing, and definitely helps everybody, you know, it just takes away that element of competition, you know, that tune's doing really well and I'm not, it's like, well, why don't we do a tune together or, you know, why don't we do this together,
And it makes it much more about the art as well. Yeah, I love that feeling of community. And I'm also thinking about, I mean, you know, all performance we think is an energetic exchange. You know, whether it's a sort of a solo artist going on stage and, you know, singing to Wembley Arena, or whether it's, you know, a group or what you're doing, which is something collaborative, but it seems like the audience really enjoy that aspect as well.
They feel part of the community, and I know you're very strong on community, Ruth. I remember that. Yes. from last time we met in person, you know, which was at those, networking meetings that we ran. I'm very curious about, because I'm new to drum and bass, it's a dance music, it's part of the dance
arena, but it also has a lot of sub genres. Can you, okay, first of all, what distinguishes Drum Bass? Yeah, the tempo is what distinguishes it. So it's kind of sort of 160 to 180 kind of speed. it's rave music essentially. It's music that gets played in clubs. It makes you dance.
it's euphoric. It's amazing. but I think drum and bass is probably one of the most versatile genres of dance music. You have crossovers with metal, you have crossovers with R& B, crossovers with techno, you know, all of these different sounds. I think because of the sample culture that goes into drum and bass, especially jungle, there's a big sample culture around jungle, and the fact that remixing is a huge part of the genre.
So, you know, you have a lot of pop tunes that will have drum and bass remixes, so it just totally opens you up to experimenting with all of these different sounds and these different tracks at the moment drum and bass is having a big, big moment right now. it's in the charts, it's all over the radio, which is fantastic.
and so there's a lot of songwriters come getting involved and it, you're getting really strong, almost pop songs in a drum and bass. Mm hmm. Sphere which I think is is brilliant. But the thing that I think makes it so unique and so loved is it's an underground culture. You know, it's a culture and the fans are like no other fans I've ever met, they're incredible.
You know, they are so loyal to the artists, to the sound, to the, the events, to the, just to the whole, yeah, the whole culture of it. it's really special. And, Yeah, I feel very lucky that I'm part of it. I love that. We, I mean, I've just been thinking about the 160 to 180 beats a minute and, you know, thinking about what we might be doing if our heart is at that rate.
You know, we might have been running or, doing something fairly, strenuous in the gym on a machine. It's also excitement. And it gives you that sort of high, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, I've seen that from, the clips you put up on Instagram.
your self promotion and your publicity is amazing.
And I mean, self promotion in all the best ways. Ooh, let's talk about that. Because I've looked around and you're everywhere. And we should listen to a track at some point as well, because again, for people of my demographic who maybe aren't that familiar with the genre, would be good to have a listen to something that Ruth has done.
Let's do that now. Talk to us about this track. Yeah. This is a really special song for me, I wrote this for one of my best friends who was very much struggling with, mental health and, reached a point that we nearly lost him, essentially, it's written from the perspective of when you're watching somebody you love go through something like that and you just want to help them but you can't, you can't reach them, and it's really resonated.
I mean, we were in Brisbane in Australia and we had a guy come up being like, please play, help you say, help you say. And he stood at the front and mouthed every lyric and filmed the whole thing. And I had, I've had people write letters about the song of, you know, how it's helped them and how it's, yeah, so it's a really, it's a special one.
And who are you collaborating with in this one? So this is with Technimatic, who are a duo, and they are lovely. They are just fantastic producers, really great to work with, and yeah, they just make a lot of beautiful music. Great. This is help you stay.
Oh my goodness. I started filling up at the line. It's okay to leave if you need to. Oh, it's quite big, isn't it? Do you know what fascinates me about that as a piece, is that you have a very distinct rhythm and speed from the drum.
But you also have an almost trance like feel to the rest of the music and actually you have some of that in your singing as well that it's very, it's very calm. It's really calm. And so you've got this fantastic juxtaposition of high tempo and calm and I love that. And that's where I hear the vocals that could so easily be solely in, you know, with a kind of a different environment in the production.
Yeah. And that's one of the amazing things about drum and bass because you're, you're usually singing at half that speed. You're singing at 86, which is, which is kind of like a neo soul tempo, really. And it fe it does feel calm. Like that, that song does feel like a ballad. Yes. Even though it's you know, it's, it's at 174.
it's magic, you know, and it's so versatile. And I think those producers as well, Technimatic, are particularly good at capturing that emotive feeling, in their production. they sent me that instrumental, And it just immediately, the song, it was such a fast, quickly written song, they sent those chords over and I just heard that song and it just kind of came out and that was the first, take of that song as well, you know, so it's very, very, I think that's why it's so emotional to listen to because it made me cry when I wrote that line, if you need to leave then darling you can.
So you can hear it in the voice and we never changed it, we were like, we're never going to redo that. that is that song now. but you'll be happy to know he's okay now. He's doing very well.
So Ruth, this is a great moment to ask you about. your songwriting process.
Was it lyrics first or melody first? how does it normally go for you? Melody first, usually, because I play as well. play piano and I produce. So I, if I'm writing something from scratch, then I'll usually get chords going first. I'll usually start a bit of the production to get a bit of a feel, and then I'll, write a top line, start writing lyrics, writing melody.
And then if. I'm collaborating, they'll usually send me chords or the start of a song and, we'll work from there. sometimes I'll send chords and a top line to a producer and then they'll build the song from there. but usually they'll send me something. but yeah, lyrics always come last.
It's so fascinating because it, it, So it's melody first, chords and melody. You're building a song in a very different way to a classical composer. And I love that. And I think it's, and also I can see that you can build it in so many different ways.
So you could start with the rhythm. You could start with a feel. You could start with a vibe. You could start with a chord sequence. you could start with a melody. You could start with a set of lyrics. You can start in all sorts of ways. And also the collaborative element of it. Which is so clear once you go into the studio.
Yeah. Because sometimes the song, and I'm assuming this, I mean, you can tell me whether this is wrong, the song that you go in on the first day in the studio is not necessarily the song that you come out with at the end. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it is though. I had the craziest experience when I was on tour this year, where I dreamt a song, like the full song, not just a little, little bit of melody.
I dreamt the lyrics, the melody, the drum sound, the bass, and this little synth pattern underneath. And I woke up, thinking, what's that, what's that song? That's a really nice song. And was going through Spotify trying to work out who'd done that song. And it took me a couple of days to be like, I think that's my song.
And, fortunately I was, I was staying with a producer friend and we went into the studio. And it was so funny because he couldn't keep up with what I was saying. I was like, no, it goes like this and then this happens and then the drums come in here and he's like, okay, hang on. I just need to get this going.
And I'm like, no, that's not what the drums sound like. They sound like this in my head, you know, and made this really great song. And I'd written this little synth line because I could hear it so clearly in my head and I could even hear the tonality of what the synth was like, you know. so sometimes it happens like that.
You just What's that saying? It's like you don't You're not the writer, you're the vessel, you have to capture stuff. You're the vehicle. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what, if ever there was, really, evidence that our brain is busy when we're asleep. Yeah. There it is. Wow. I mean, that's a fantastic, that's a fantastic story.
I always like to get a Terry Pratchett thing in somewhere. Have you read any Terry Pratchett? Yeah, I love Terry Pratchett. Oh, good. Because there's a character in Terry Pratchett whose mind is so wide open that everything falls into it.
And I love the idea that all of these ideas are sleeting around in the atmosphere and you just have to catch one. I honestly think that's what songwriters are. We just have to be there. and if you don't get into a studio or get it down, it will go to someone else.
And I think that's really lovely. And I think as well, you know, like that song, for instance, Help You Stay, I wrote that song because of something that me and my friend were going through and it was a, it was a kind of therapy for me. But now It's everybody else's, and everybody else has their own experiences and emotions from that song, and that's now, you know, that part of the song that's mine, will always be mine, but that song's not mine anymore, that's for everybody else, and I think that's what's so beautiful about art and about creativity, is you kind of, it sort of happens to you and around you, and you, you kind of, you're as much, a spectator or enjoying it as you are the creator.
A hundred percent. Can I, I just want to dig into this because I love that. Thank you for sharing with us your why, because this is your why, isn't it? This is why you do what you do. It's also the idea that as a creator, you create something and it comes through your filter. And I think that's a given, you know, this idea can be, and by the way, I love this whole concept.
The idea is, is sleeting around in the atmosphere somewhere. Yeah. And it finds a receptacle and it comes through and it gets translated through the filter of that receptacle and you write the song down and then, and it has a very particular meaning for you or it has a very particular place for you and then someone else hears it and they take it through their filter and it has a completely different meaning for them and that is absolutely valid.
And that's the point of music. That's the point of art. Exactly. That is the point of art, you know, and I think that's a really beautiful thing. I think that's why when we try really hard to write a song, it often doesn't come, or we push ourselves too much or we try and fit in little boxes and it doesn't quite work or it doesn't flow.
You have to be open. You have to be relaxed for it to just flow and come naturally. well, they call it flow state, don't they? and you can actively get into flow state, but that's not focusing on. the song, that's not focusing on the thing, that's focusing on your state of mind. Yes. Really interesting.
I'm just thinking about, people who will be listening to this who are also, singer songwriters. What skills do you think a singer songwriter needs in order to, be successful in, the writing and singing process? I love that question. I think don't be afraid to sound silly.
I think that's something that can really stunt a songwriter, especially if you're, you know, collaborating, trust the word vomit, you know, make the sound, do it in front of people, don't worry about it's not being perfect, you know, I say all sorts of weird stuff when I'm in writing sessions and words and lyrics and melodies and, you know, I'll always play voice notes that have got loads of traffic in the background and me just going, you know, singing really badly and I don't care, you know, it's not.
Get you get something out of it, you know, and it makes everybody else feel relaxed as well. I think that's a really helpful thing to kind of get over, you know, just get over looking silly. It's, you don't look silly actually. that's about being vulnerable, isn't it?
Which is, you know, allowing that channel to happen, not self monitoring it, not self editing. Yeah. It's also, and this is so fascinating, the way you're describing it, you are using ideas as building blocks. So it doesn't matter whether, you know, you want a red brick and you've got a blue one, that's fine.
Let's see what the blue one looks like. Absolutely. And, you know, don't get too precious about things. if an idea is not working, that's fine. let it go. It might be right for another day. I've been in so many writing sessions where people come in with a particular thing that they really want to hold on to, and it's just not working, and it means that the song doesn't, you don't end up finishing the song or finishing with something good.
And I think recognizing that, and you don't have to be, I don't think you have to be really harsh about it, you know, you don't have to be cutthroat. I think there's a lot of, a lot of, what's the word? People think that the industry has to be very cutthroat and you have to be able to have a thick skin and, you know, which you do, but you can also be nice about it.
And I think it's more to do with if you can let go of stuff, it makes the writing process a lot easier, and not, you know, not taking things too personally, which is hard sometimes, because songs are very personal. but yeah, if you can kind of let go of that, then you often get a much better outcome and a much quicker outcome,
something that producers and writers like, quick songwriters. There's something else as well, which is really interesting. I mean, I've been a collaborative musician my entire professional life. And there's something about collaboration that I think people don't understand, which is somebody can have a better idea than you've got.
And if you're just open to that and you go, Oh, wow, I never thought of that. I love that. And we sometimes clash when we're writing, don't we all? We're putting stuff together. Because I am the one that comes in, Oh, I've got this idea. This idea is perfectly formed. I'm very, very attached to the idea.
And, I can feel quite challenged when Jeremy says, Why? Yeah, but why? Oh, that's not working. I am poster Why-Child. And we do, you know, it's because of that process, actually, that we end up with something good. And what occurred to me when you were saying that, Ruth, is that there's got to be trust between you and your collaborators.
Yes. Because you can't allow yourself to be vulnerable in that way if you think you're going to be judged. And I think trust yourself as well, you know, trust that you are good. the longer you do something, the more confidence you have, and it's easier to say, oh, I don't know, but that's much easier, I think, as you have more experience.
When you're starting out, you don't want to admit that you don't know, even though it's fine. and I think just kind of gaining that confidence in yourself as an artist and yourself as a writer like some of the best songwriters that I've worked with who have, written multiple chart topping singles.
They actually work more like facilitators you get in the studio with them and they will have me as a vocalist and a writer. Maybe they'll have another producer in there with them and they are facilitating us to get the best possible thing out of us. And I've written the best songs I've ever written in those rooms.
And they're not there going, no, we're going to do my idea because I know best because I've done this for 20 years. They're, they're going, oh yeah, no, that's good. Yeah, that works well. Oh, maybe let's try that a little bit different. Okay. What about this? Yeah, that works well. You know, and you're kind of like, wow, this is just magician is just making this incredible piece of music in front of your eyes.
from your ideas. And that makes sense to me because you're working with the person in the room. So as a producer, you would be working with the person in front of you coming up with ideas that and your, your filter, your own filter, if you like, is does that idea work on that person to its best ability?
Yeah. and does that reflect on the person? Does it show that person off? And therefore you're building not just a song, but you're building a performance as well.
There is so much more that we can talk about, obviously, but we are going to have to let you go. So we're going to wait until the next episode to find out what happens next. Thank you so much for having me. So we'll see you next time. Bye.
This is A Voice, a podcast with Dr. Gillyanne Kayes and Jeremy Fisher.
This Is A Voice
