THE LIFE AQUATIC WITH STEVE ZISSOU with Patrick Shanahan

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Are you ready to embark on a journey into the mind of an artist inspired by the intricacies of Wes Anderson's films, notably The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou? Our guest, Patrick Shanahan, owner of the Ark Royal—a tiki bar that pays homage to the movie—shares how the film’s influence permeates his establishment. From the décor to the drinks, like the frozen Belafonte and Rum Cannonball, you will see how this film has not only shaped his business but his perspective on life.

Patrick's journey as an artist began with a simple drawing of two ducks in elementary school, which transformed his life. Join us as we delve into the profound impact of art on storytelling, an influence that can be seen in his bar and his life. We'll invite you to explore the increasing accessibility of art and the ambition to achieve recognition beyond fame. Patrick's story is a testament to the intertwining of art and life, made possible by the immersive world of The Life Aquatic.

Wes Anderson's filmography has a unique way of creating parallel realities within the minds of its viewers. The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou is not exempt from this. We'll explore the deeper meanings of the film, including the metaphor of the Jaguar shark and the motivations of the main character, Steve Zissou. Our guest, Patrick, provides his personal experiences and reflections on this theme, and we consider how the film has helped him process his own life experiences. So, prepare to set sail into a world where art meets life, reality intertwines with fiction, and rum flows like the sea. Let's embark on this journey together.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:23

Hey there, dear listener, I have a very special episode for you today. So, before we dive in, if you want to get the fullest experience, I recommend heading over to our YouTube channel. You can still enjoy the audio on your preferred podcast platform, but we're doing something unique with this episode that you might enjoy in full living color. Okay, on with the show. I want you on Team Zissou. I don't think I can do that, why not? Well, it's not my field. I don't have the background for it, no one here does.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Klaus used to be a bus driver. Well, Edarski was a high school substitute teacher.

Speaker 1: 1:04

We're a pack of strays, don't you get it? See, I'm not even that strong a swimmer. The answer is yes. Well, it's got to be.

Speaker 2: 1:14

I'll order you a red cap and a speedo when he finally goes after something. It's not even real. You know it's like in trying to make this movie. How real is that as opposed to having a relationship with your actual son in making this thing to be famous, to be known or something? So that's what I'm saying when I'm getting at this idea of reality. And what is the most important thing, is it the things that we make that we'll be remembered by, or is it just our friendship? Is it us recording this conversation or is it us having this conversation over coffee?

Speaker 1: 1:46

Hi, I'm Taylor and welcome back to the Film Nuts podcast, a show about why we love what we watch. If you're a longtime fan of the show, you understand that our favorite movies and favorite TV shows have a way of inserting themselves into our everyday lives. We quote our favorite movies to our friends in normal conversation. We wear clothes we thought looked good on a specific character from our favorite TV show and we even maybe watch stuff on our phones to keep us company during our daily train commute. There are even occasions when someone is so inspired by a film they bring elements of it to life in the form of a tiki bar. The Ark Royal, located here in Raleigh, north Carolina, is a tiki bar infused with homages to Wes Anderson's the Life Aquatic with Steve Zsu. The decor, the cocktails, even a portrait of Bill Murray hanging behind the bar remind those familiar with the film of its impact on the founder of this establishment.

Speaker 1: 2:53

That founder is Patrick Shanahan, an artist, filmmaker, restaurateur and now friend of the show. Patrick was gracious enough to invite me and my camera crew down to see how he and the Ark Royal were inspired by the Life Aquatic with Steve Zsu.

Speaker 2: 3:09

I love that movie more than just a western film. Wes Anderson's films have a way of becoming a part of your daily life, where you're quoting it wearing a red beanie and you're handing out clocks. But, seriously, it's become such a big part of my life that I feel like Zsu has had an influence on the way that I actually speak to people and treat people and don't take myself too seriously. It's a movie about making movies and we're going to make fun of movies at the same time. Filmmaker, I like that. Now that I'm making less movies than I used to, I find it even funnier. So, even moving into bar creation, it was like okay, yes, it's a tiki bar, yes, it's a cocktail bar, but I don't want to take it too seriously. So let's take the spirit of that movie and the ridiculousness of Bill Murray's character and let's put that in the bar, so it's not like you walk in and everything's blue, yellow, touch of red, because that's, our tenders aren't wearing the red beanies?

Speaker 2: 4:10

No, but they should be, honestly, this winter we might bring the red beanies in. You know, you have the sharks on the wall for the Jaguar shark, yeah, you have like these like tribal elements, which is like a nod to like Pescha, Spotta Island, and these like adventures that I'm assuming Zsu went on, the first thing we ever did before we ever started, like building anything. Was named the main three drinks, which are Jaguar shark, the Belafonte and the rum cannonball, because all three are mentioned in the movie.

Speaker 1: 4:37

Has anybody noticed that the life of aquatic is in this bar?

Speaker 2: 4:40

Yes, many, many, many people. Do they the cocktails?

Speaker 1: 4:44

The name of the cocktail.

Speaker 2: 4:45

They're like, oh yeah, they're like Jaguar, shark, Belafonte. Like what do you watch Zsu? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I've seen it. It's not called Zsu, it's called the life of aquatic. What are we drinking? These are actually based off of life aquatic. This is our frozen drink. It's called the Belafonte, which was the ship I knew.

Speaker 2: 5:05

Our flagship drink had to be a frozen drink. You know, it's like the one thing you come in you're like, oh, it's got to be a shitty drink. But you try and you're like, damn, that's good. I mean that's a good drink, it is good, it is good. People love it. They talk about it. It's no, you know, I mean that's like a great drink, it's a great flagship.

Speaker 2: 5:21

And then I knew, because it's a teaguar, rum was our focus. You know, rum is so unique People talk about bourbons and whiskeys being so different and unique. Rum's have complexities that the world has forgotten or has been washed over by the idea of spice rum, which is ridiculous because this is a rum cannonball which is a throwaway line in life aquatic. We love it and it's all I drink when I come in here. What's in there? Today we're drinking with Clamont select barrel rum which is from Martinique, and all rums are specific to the island which they come from, which comes from, like an agricultural history of, unfortunately, colonialism, A lot of these islands. You can trace back the way they make their rums to not only that island specifically but also their colonizers. So you've got Spanish influences, British influences, French influences and then usually, when you use like a sweetener for an old passion, you would just throw in some simple syrup sugar as you will.

Speaker 2: 6:21

But if you're making like a mezcal old passion, maybe someone throws in some agave to keep it in the spirit of like the culture. And then here we're actually using phalarna, which is a clove based spice which you'll see in the Tiki world a lot Polarna and orjot and maybe you'll see like a passion fruit sweetener from time to time, but those are the sweeteners you'll see in Tiki. So Tiki really is a whole different palette. It's very sweet. So you've got this like spicy clove coming through from the phalarna. You've got Tiki bitters instead of like an Angostora. And then you've got that Martinique rum which is like kind of sweet but also has a punch, not as much as like a high proof bourbon, which is what a lot of old fashioned drinkers like. They like high proof so that like that ice melts and the sweetness like builds by the last drink. It's like sipping candy, but from the first sip this one's kind of like candy.

Speaker 1: 7:16

You don't have to be knowledgeable about Tiki or other cocktail cultures to appreciate this place. It's fun, vibrant and the drinks are well delicious. But the things that stand out to me are the connections between Tiki, the life aquatic and Patrick's creative philosophy. So after a few drinks and a lovely tour of the place, we sat down to chat about hospitality, the fabrication of reality and not taking ourselves too seriously. So here's Patrick Shanahan talking about the life aquatic with Steve Zissou on the Film Nuts podcast.

Speaker 2: 7:55

Tiki itself is its own cocktail culture. Right, it's its own thing and I've been to so many amazing Tiki bars that would just blow you away, ones with like active volcanoes in them and stuff you know the grass skirts incredible. There's just so many amazing bars and these people are, like I said, it's a serious culture. When I approach Tiki, there's one throwaway line in life aquatic. You know, there's one throwaway line that made me say, okay, that's enough for us to make it like that theme here. You know, what was? It.

Speaker 1: 8:27

What a shame they had a bartender here. Kino made the best room cannibal I've ever tasted.

Speaker 2: 8:33

It's not a real cocktail. I just thought that was really interesting, you know, and I was like I want to follow that into the bar and show people how much I love life aquatic. Because if people wanted to say, oh, what's the Belfante, what is the Jaguar, what's the point of all this stuff? Yeah, if you notice the little pieces around, people would say maybe it has something to do with life aquatic. And if you know, you know, because I feel like Wes Anderson himself is kind of that way. If you know his films, you know, and if you don't, well, we don't have much to talk about. So why do you love this?

Speaker 1: 9:01

movie You've just talked about. It's inspiring and Tiki Bar. But why do you love this movie so?

Speaker 2: 9:05

much. Well, I mean, I know this is a conversation, but I got to start with like the shortest. I'll make this story really short, you don't have to, I'm going to make it short. I know it's more of a conversation, but this is a short story, okay, and a true story. When I was in my I think it was my junior high school, I was dating this girl. She's an amazing, wonderful girl, beautiful girl. Haven't seen her in years, but she was great Emily, and she lived out in Chapel Hill and I lived in Raleigh, so Durham was between us, so that the closest AMC movie theater or whatever was Durham. Right, oh yeah, south Point, south.

Speaker 1: 9:31

Point yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:32

So I drove out and picked her up and she's like let's go see a movie. I said, all right, let's see something funny. It's all. Bill Murray had a movie coming out. And I said all right, I love Bill Murray, I love, you know, ghostbusters and Caddy Shack. It's fun stuff, you know. And so we go see this movie. And as soon as it started, I was like this is not funny. It was like this is weird.

Speaker 1: 9:50

Well, that was only part one. It's a cliffhanger.

Speaker 2: 9:54

Now I'm going to go hunt down that shark or whatever it is and hopefully kill it I don't know how yet, maybe dynamite and we sat there and watched and I was like so confused because I'd never seen filmmaking quite like that. And at the end of the movie, when it stopped, I looked at it and was like what did you think about that? This is the worst movie I've ever seen. Wow, and I said I think you may be right, like I think you're right. That was really bad, that was weird. So I go drop her off in Chapel Hill. I'm driving back and all I can think about is this movie. I'm like so weirded out by it.

Speaker 2: 10:25

And I was really into film at the time. You know I was seeing a lot of like a kill bill would come out kind of that same time and I was like obsessed with that stuff, early 2000s, yeah, like. So I'm driving home and the late show was coming, so I stopped back at the AMC theater and went by myself. You went and saw it again. I went and saw it again the same night, same night, wow. And when I left that movie I realized that I realized I needed to talk to her the next day. And I did and I said you and I are completely different. People will never make it because that's the best movie I've ever seen in my life. And you're wrong and I was like, I'm sorry, like great girl love her to death.

Speaker 1: 10:58

She's doing well wherever she is.

Speaker 2: 10:59

But I knew that. I knew that we were fundamentally different people because she was wrong. I was just so taken by the film because you're hit by so much visual in a Wes Anderson film. Was this your?

Speaker 1: 11:10

first Wes Anderson movie.

Speaker 2: 11:12

No, you know, you remember like your parents would take you to Blackbuster when you're younger, right and like let you pick out one Right.

Speaker 1: 11:16

Did that happen with you?

Speaker 2: 11:17

Yeah, okay. So I picked out Rushmore a long time ago once again because I saw Bill Murray and I thought like, okay, bill Murray, this is gonna be funny. And I remember watching it and I watched it so many times that weekend. I still never understood like why Rushmore was speaking to me. No, it wasn't my first Wes Anderson film. I'd never seen Bottle Rocket, but I had seen Rushmore and I had seen World of Tandem Bombs, because Tandem Bombs is where he kind of came out and people other than film people started paying attention because I think it got up for an Academy Award for some probably best screenplay, honestly, and everyone kept calling it a dark comedy and everyone was like, oh, it's a dark comedy. And I was like, oh, it must be bad, it's a dark comedy. I didn't even know what it meant, I just remember.

Speaker 2: 11:55

Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know. But now then I knew, because in 2000, whatever I think it must have been three when I saw that movie I was like, oh, this is something different, this is a piece of art and that's what I want to do, you know. So I think that that's where it began for me. And then after that, I the love grows right.

Speaker 2: 12:11

The first time you see it, it doesn't make a lot of sense. The second time you see it, you understand. The staccato rhythm of West is like West, like. I know this guy, his writing style is like this weird rhythm to it, where once you buy into the rhythm and you start to get the rhythm, you're like, okay, I'm beyond that now. And now I'm in this world, and now this is the world he's painting, he wants me to see, and now I'm in this moving painting. It's very different, I think he's very different than any other filmmaker that exists. So when you're like, oh, I love, I remember this producer once said like I don't make and produce West Anderson films because I know I'm going to make money.

Speaker 2: 12:45

I do it because I'm collecting art and I feel like that was the first time me being a painter. I was a visual artist at the time like just figuring out painting, and bought my first little Canon, made some short films in high school. It was like, oh shit, film is an art form. Now I get it and that's why I love this movie. And it grows, it just grows on you, you know, it just grows on you yeah, yeah, no, I'm the same way I actually grows on you.

Speaker 1: 13:07

I actually liked this movie the first time I saw it. Wow, I guess. I guess I was already understanding the humor because I saw Royal Tenenbombs and that's like. That's like it's obviously a comedy, is like you said, it's kind of dark comedy but I understood like the awkward comedy of it. I was like into it and then knowing that it's life aquatic would be similar to that, and watching it and also having like there was more of an emotional component and then also like I'm just like a big, like like ocean wildlife nerd and so I was so fast and so taking with the fact that they were like inventing new species of things Totally, and just how beautifully they illustrated them with stop motion. I thought that was great, Did you know much about Jacuzzo.

Speaker 2: 13:47

Yes, the first toy I remember playing with was like a Jacuzzo bathtub toy. Okay, maybe I don't know if it was a bathtub toy I played with it in the bath tub. He was like diving in the tub and he had little flippers and like a whole thing and I forgot about Gusto, except for maybe a throwaway line in an Ace Ventura movie or something.

Speaker 2: 14:06

You know, I don't remember I didn't like keep up with him. But you know, what I love about the film is I don't know if I don't know this for sure, because I've just off the top of my head. I mean, I feel like reality television had become a thing. I don't remember when the writer strike was, but right, reality television was. I feel like it was between Reality television was around the turn of the century.

Speaker 1: 14:23

I think it was between Rushmore and.

Speaker 2: 14:28

Life Aquatic.

Speaker 1: 14:29

What was Rushmore? I don't remember. Yeah, they have in between right. So the Royal Tamoms, I feel you should know this, because I know you're a massive survivor fan. I and that came on and that came on around like 2000 and 99.

Speaker 2: 14:40

I want to say yes, I mean I loved it in the beginning and then I would get so attached to these people that got voted off that, like I just stopped. I didn't get back into survivor until recently. But there's a lot of Tiki in. If you watch survivor it's all Tiki, it's Tiki culture. You're winning Tiki idols and gods and stuff, depending on where they are.

Speaker 1: 14:57

They've slowed that down.

Speaker 2: 14:57

They have slowed the Tiki down because you know there's a whole thing about cultural appropriation. But I think we should touch on that at some point. But let's go back to reality for a second. Documentaries are reality, it's reality. It's to a degree like this is real Same vein.

Speaker 2: 15:14

Yeah, so in the film sorry, bill Murray is a documentarian making Ter誘, making reality film, and he's creating these narratives throughout the movie, like with his son, with Esteban, with everybody he's like. But you know, there's great scenes where it's like a touching scene. He's like staring at his son and he goes how you shooting this, vikram?

Speaker 1: 15:35

One, two, three Attaboy, attaboy, here he is, here he is, come on you, okay, man you okay, alright, give him some room.

Speaker 2: 15:45

He's okay, he just drank a little too much water.

Speaker 1: 15:53

How you shooting this Vikram wide open.

Speaker 2: 15:55

Alright, Mike, Five, six. He's so out of the reality, he's just so interested in how it's coming off on the camera. So this idea that yes, it's real but none of it's real and the reason I bring this up is because you were talking about the fake wildlife it's like he wanted to show that the reality he's creating is so unreal that I have to make up these fake animals. You know these sea animals, these creatures.

Speaker 1: 16:18

Well, I mean I defeated this idea. I didn't take it as that. I took it as, like the world we're witnessing is just like a mystical world where we're going to have these animals that aren't real animals because, like he gets gifted the crayon ponyfish from Klaus's son or grandson or nephew of Everest.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Steve, this is my little nephew of Erna. He wanted to meet you.

Speaker 1: 16:43

How you doing, warner. He brought your present A crayon ponyfish. Wow, interesting specimen.

Speaker 2: 16:58

Thanks, Bill, You're welcome. I do love the idea of films inside films. I always have Films about filmmakers. There's a lot of this movie, I think, is lost on people that don't know about film. How you shooting this figure Wide open. You know it's like, hey, get a two shot, Get a cutaway of this miracle. You know it's like the way that he speaks about it. I laugh now, but it's really not that funny. I think when most people watch it they're like this is not funny. This man is in despair. He's lost his father figure, Esteban, and he's meeting this son that he's never had and he's becoming a father figure. But he doesn't want to be. And it's not that funny. It's dark, but that movie gets funnier and funnier and funnier. He doesn't want you to be that attached to reality.

Speaker 1: 17:39

So the more I thought about it over the years seeing it maybe 500 times To me, the fact that Bill Murray is playing a documentarian and the fact that Owen Wilson plays his maybe, maybe not son, or not quite sure. To me, this film deals a lot with legacy, I guess, Like both the struggle for what to leave behind and possibly the definition of it. So with all this, I mean, you're a filmmaker, you're a photographer, you're a screenwriter, you are a restaurant tour with all the stuff that you're going on what is? Is there some kind of legacy that you're striving toward?

Speaker 2: 18:17

Yeah, you know what I found about. I was just talking to our bartender, braden, who's here with us today. He's making our drinks. Cheers, braden.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Shout out.

Speaker 2: 18:26

I was just talking to him about what do you want? He said I don't want to own my own bar someday and I said okay, I remember when I was 22 and I want to own my own bar someday. My legacy has become about hospitality. Okay, let's start this back a little further. When I was in college is when I saw Life Aquatic in high school, got back to it in college. I'm going to answer this question. I promise it's just the roundabout way of getting back to it. You can talk as much as you want to we're coming back.

Speaker 1: 18:48

I'll just hold you to it, we're coming back to this because this is important.

Speaker 2: 18:53

I think about this a lot In college. If you came to my house, you were going. There was a lot of parties out there, there was a lot of frat parties and all this stuff. There were so many things to do in college. But I was painting at the time and I wanted to sell my paintings. But I also wanted to go to parties, but I was so anxious, I had so much social anxiety and I didn't want to leave my house. I just had these art parties and people started coming and they bought my paintings. But we would party all night long and these were wild fun times where I was painting all over the place and bands would play and this went on from 19 to 23,.

Speaker 2: 19:29

I lived in that house Four years of this, all the time, constantly. People knew about it. It became a thing. We would have this tiny little house, 1,500 square feet, full of 400 people. It was just a wild time. If you came to that house during that time, life Aquatic was on. It never came off. That TV never turned off and it played Life Aquatic from the. It was always on. I never stopped. It just kept going on.

Speaker 1: 19:49

Repeat that criterion collection yes that's the exact one I have.

Speaker 2: 19:52

Yes, just kept on and kept on and kept on, and kept on and kept on. So if you were in that house, you saw some bit of Life Aquatic going, and so Life Aquatic became a really important part. But then when I went to New York to film school and started drinking differently, it wasn't like oh, Jack and Cokes. It wasn't like. You know, I drank some absinthe in college and thought I was cool.

Speaker 2: 20:14

And then I went to New York and was like, oh, there's a different way of drinking. You don't have to drink in excess, you can drink one or two and have a really great night and really enjoy what you're learning about the story and where it comes from.

Speaker 2: 20:24

And that's what I love about Tiki and Kraft cocktails, like I do, is there's a great story that goes way beyond my involvement of really talented people, like really exploring a craft, and so I find the art in cocktails that I started to respect. So when I came back and always had this idea for Watts and Ward, my first bar, it became about hospitality. Right, it became about I want people to have a great experience here and my approach to barmaking was like my approach to filmmaking, which I'm still working at that. But you know, I always say that if you have a really good cast, like approach bars, like I approach film so if you have a good cast, that's like your bartenders, your barbacks, you know, your door guys, like everybody, is so important. What is the story? From the moment you walk into my bar to the moment you leave, the first person. The last person is the doorman, door guy, door girl, whatever door they. That is the most important person. I treat them and let them know you are important, you are everything. You're not just the person sitting at the door, you are. Hey, how's it going? How are you doing tonight. You were the first impression and you're the last impression.

Speaker 2: 21:26

Hospitality has to be about how you treat somebody and I've always strove like when I met somebody, I always want to listen to them and talk to them about what are your interests, what are you into? You know, I feel like the art of caring was really I mean, I think it's kind of back now. It must be hip to be caring, but I feel like it was done. Isn't that shitty? I know it's so freaking weird, but I felt like it was really important to get to know people, even and I love this to strangers like today that I meet. I still do this, just not because I'm thinking about it, because I'm interested. I am. I love talking to strangers about strange things, what they're interested in, what are they doing, how's their day going, whatever. But hospitality, I think, is the legacy I'd like to leave behind.

Speaker 2: 22:06

I always felt like when I was with Patrick you know talking to myself about myself and the third person here when I was with Patrick, he felt like I felt like I was heard and listened to and seen. And I feel like when people come to Watson Ward, you're seen and you're felt and you're heard and we want to be there for you. And if you come to the Ark Royal, where we are now, my second venture it was always who's the cast, what's the lighting, what's the story? And so, if I can continue to create these moments like I see this, like we're sitting in as a continuation of my art from college, as a continuation of storytelling, screenwriting, filmmaking, when you go into a space that I've designed, do you feel a certain way? I can control the way you feel from the moment you walk in the door, and then your experience is your own. So, like the first time, I sat back in one of my bars and I watched people, man dude, I was hooked.

Speaker 2: 22:55

I was hooked. It's cool to like sit in a movie theater and watch people like oh, ha, ha, ha, when something you wrote and they're laughing about it like oh it landed. But imagine getting to see that movie like 500 times in one night and people are experiencing the room. We're sitting in the taboo room, People like fighting to get in, People freaking having sex back here and getting thrown out. You know, I mean whatever it might be, not that we condone that, but that's why you kicked them out.

Speaker 1: 23:19

Yeah, we had to throw them out.

Speaker 2: 23:21

They didn't get that far, but I'm just saying what happens in the taboo room stays here. But I think that if that's what filmmaking is and art is is trying to allow someone to see what you want, and then how does it affect them and what does that play between in the mind is a very complex thing, but it's also very simple and it's and I was telling Bray in the bartender if you want to make your own bar, find the right cast, Make sure the lighting is exactly what you want it to be, and what is your story? There's a lot of bars that come and go and people are like oh you know, opening a restaurant, a bar, is really tough. Well, the ones that make it have great stories. Where does this chef come from? Where did this bartender come from? What makes this space interesting? What makes that interesting? What? What makes this different? Right, it's all in story. Whether it's a painting, whether it's a screenplay, a film or this bar, it all begins with story.

Speaker 2: 24:08

So if, hopefully, I find that the older I get that my art will be forgotten, I have to say I mean, I'm not the best artist. Right, my art will be forgotten. It doesn't matter. I mean, how many paintings can you name off the top? You had probably some Van Gogh's, a few Monet's. You go to the MoMA or whatever. You see this collection of great art, right. But think about the Egyptians, Like they were putting out some serious art that has all been stolen and taken around the world to different museums and stuff. I don't think they were thinking about like, oh, someday I'm going to be famous, right. But now everyone wants to be an artist because they think they can, they can skip having to get a job. Everyone's a photographer, Everyone's a filmmaker, Everyone's an artist whatever. Do you think? Sorry, I'm just rambling.

Speaker 1: 24:45

No, no, no, no, no. The rambling is welcome. Do you think that people, everybody wants to be an artist, or does everybody want recognition for something? I mean, I don't want to say does everybody want to be famous, but like, hmm, not to be all get off my lawn about it, but I do feel like that there is a certain age group coming up that, um, including our own generation sometimes about like just wanting to be known.

Speaker 2: 25:13

That's a good way of putting it.

Speaker 1: 25:14

Um, or be seen, even even if it's coming from a place, if I just want to be seen and that gets construed as to wanting to be known or something.

Speaker 2: 25:23

No, I love what your thoughts are. I mean, I think these are things that we're dealing with every day and thinking about all the time, as artists like and separating ourselves because it's so accessible to be an artist and to be seen. Right now you can do whatever you want to be seen. Yeah, I mean we see this in terrible ways People that aren't seen and aren't heard, aren't understood, that are I don't want to get dark, but you know shootings and shit that we see every day it's horrible. But when you see these people that are like, marginalized and they have no other way to be seen, and then you have people that can flaunt different talents or attributes to be seen, you know, I mean there's always a really good things that people are doing. People are standing up to say, like, I want to be an individual and stand up for the environment or for rights or whatever, whatever they want to do. I think there's more platforms now to be seen and heard, but it's not always a good thing. It can be dangerous and it could be good. So I mean I think that, yes, people want to find. I think people don't want to feel so alone, you know, but when I was, when I was painting earlier in life. I remember in college and high school no, no, no, no, let's go backpack, backpack, backpack.

Speaker 2: 26:24

When I was a kid, I really loved Star Wars. I watched a lot of Star Wars. I really loved that nerdy world of like oh, this is fantasy, right, I was kind of the nerdy kid that wanted to draw right, but then someone saw a drawing of mine in second grade of these two ducks. Hate these ducks. They're still in, they. They haunt my life. They changed my entire trajectory of everything I ever did. Oh man, these better be great ducks.

Speaker 2: 26:45

They all send you a pic. I mean I'll get you one. I mean they're out there. My mom copied them.

Speaker 1: 26:50

So she has the original like three, two grand for.

Speaker 2: 26:53

Yeah, I know I'll get you, I'll get you. Oh, but yeah. So these ducks, they were like I guess they were just better than the rest of the kids and they're like this kid's got a little bit of artistic talent. And finally, I wasn't just another kid in school which I didn't really care. I was in second grade when this happened. Right, I became. I was never the fastest I've really finished the mile. Remember you had to run the mile. I was like a three laugh guy and it was four laugh.

Speaker 1: 27:12

I'll be like I did my mile.

Speaker 2: 27:13

They're like no dude, patrick you did three laughs.

Speaker 2: 27:15

You better keep going. Oh, and I was like I just I tap out, just give me a 10 minute, whatever I'm out. I wasn't fast, I wasn't athletic, I wasn't any of these things, but I could draw and it got a lot of recognition. I was really noticed, you know, in school I like really noticed, and then I started singing in plays and gave me more recognition. I was like oh, I'm like known as the one artsy kid at this small school. That's cool. That was my thing, you know. So I think getting recognized for something is important, do you think that is? But I don't think that's a lasting legacy. Is what I'm getting at? That's all right.

Speaker 2: 27:46

I don't need to cut you out, no, no no, no, I have found that I've been surrounded by such talented people in my life that I've tapped out of art because I saw someone Sean Richards painted a painting once and I was like if I could be his best, if I could be the best I would ever get and I know you know to know your limitations, I think is important. I will never get better than that and that's what I want to do. And he's doing it better than I'll ever do it. So why keep going on? So I said, ok, let me retain. What can I do? Where can I go? What is really calling to me? And I seem to have gone.

Speaker 2: 28:15

I still enjoy screen, I literally love writing, but I do find that the idea of legacy, living to live beyond, to be remembered or cared about years from now Is the most vain, arbitrary thing that anyone can go down.

Speaker 2: 28:32

So I really try to find out how can I be remembered from this moment, to maybe affect you, to affect what I've taken from this, and move forward in the rest of my day and the rest of my week and the rest of my month to be a better, to be a better version of myself. I'm interested in my legacy while I'm alive and I think that if you live that way, then maybe the one or two generations that will remember any of us after this will care about that. You know, I think we have to. We have to continuously push each other towards like something to get better we. I don't think I can make the world better by one thing I'm going to do, but if more of us keep being more something, more together, more like open, more welcoming, maybe that makes a longer lasting thing than anything I could make. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 29:17

Yeah, no, I so understand.

Speaker 2: 29:18

I think that's a healthy way, that's a healthy way of thinking, and I think yeah, to bring it back to bars, even though it's around drinking and we're selling poison. Don't let me kid you, I'm a drug dealer at this point. I think that I've seen people get married and engaged, break up fight. I've seen people punch each other in bars, you know. I've seen them, like, make out in bars. I've seen them literally get engaged, like start their lives together in my bars, and it's cool to like create the set but not write the movie, and then you get to watch it right itself every night.

Speaker 1: 29:49

So I think so that's my legacy, I think that's a good. So that's the the inverse, the antithesis of Steve Ziefsu's motivations when it comes to stuff like that. I think that brought it back One of the things that really hits me with the movie, because we both agree it's funny. It might not be understood by other people, but we both think it's funny. But when they do, finally get up to the Jaguar shark, it's one of the like emotional, big emotional beats of the movie. Are we safe in here? I doubt it. You still want to blow it up.

Speaker 2: 30:39

No, we're out of dynamite anyway. It is beautiful, Steve.

Speaker 1: 30:50

Yeah, it's pretty good, it's not. I wonder if it remembers me. What to you does the Jaguar shark? What is it a metaphor for, do you think, if anything?

Speaker 2: 31:10

The Jaguar shark. Like I was saying about reality In making anything, let's say in Steve Ziefsu making a documentary about this.

Speaker 1: 31:21

What's his?

Speaker 2: 31:21

motivation Revenge. Yeah, she's amazing, it's so good, it's like great start.

Speaker 1: 31:28

I know it's incredible. I'm going to interrupt you with a quick contact. So that the film festival scenes was filmed in an opera house, the oldest opera house in Italy, in Naples. I've been there and I had no idea. I was listening to director's commentary and they told me where it was. I was like I've seen Madame Butterfly in that opera house.

Speaker 2: 31:52

I'm rarely jealous. You've got me on that one Damn.

Speaker 1: 31:56

It was very hot because there's no AC in that entire place.

Speaker 2: 31:59

Those scenes they're all sweating in the scene Very authentic. That intro, by the way, is so odd. It's so great though that loses 90% of the people that don't understand it. It happens in the first 10 minutes. Well, I just don't think they got it. It's like what's with this rhythm? Why is this bird lady speaking? So weird? It's just bizarre. That whole intro just throws me. And he loves doing that. Throw a 4-3 ratio in there. He did it with the velvet curtain.

Speaker 1: 32:24

It's like a 4-3 documentary, you know.

Speaker 2: 32:26

Yeah, because I guess they're shooting on 16mm at the time. But what I'll say about reality is he's chasing this idea that this imaginary creature killed his father figure or best friend, whatever you want to say. Steve Zisu has nothing. Steve Zisu is a joke, right? He's got no family, his wife doesn't like him, his crew doesn't take him seriously, except for Klaus. He's kind of a man on his own and all he has left is to try to save his career, is to create this false reality, to search for this shark, and he's going to blow it up with dynamite.

Speaker 1: 33:02

I think that if everybody's doubting, they're like they don't think the shark is real. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Speaker 2: 33:06

Of course, I think that it's the grasp, a desperate man's grasp, last grasp for something real. But we know the Jaguar shark is not real. He made it up, wes Anderson made it up. So we are all chasing something to feel something real. Well, that's outside of it, though.

Speaker 1: 33:26

That's outside of it, though, because all the creatures in the movie are made up Like they are fictional Totally, but within the reality, the Jaguar shark is real.

Speaker 2: 33:34

No, I agree, but I'm saying I think that Wes Anderson is taking a deeper step to say all this stuff is not real.

Speaker 1: 33:43

Okay. The reality is not real, so there's a deeper meaning behind the fact that he's created 100%. I understand what you're saying and I don't know if people talk about that.

Speaker 2: 33:52

I thought about this not that long ago because someone asked me about one of our cocktails, which is named the Jaguar shark. It's a mezcal drink. It's delicious, but someone was talking about it and I was like you know, it's not even really just made all that stuff up, Like the cramponi fish, the Jaguar shark, the red snapper you know what it is like, Fluorescent snapper, the fluorescent snapper. Thank you, the fluorescent snapper. Well, you say about. Any movie, though, is made up. Well, no, because in not necessarily. Let's talk about Jurassic Park. There's actually a T-Rex. In real life, there was a T-Rex.

Speaker 1: 34:27

No, that's right, but I'm saying the if we're talking about individual organisms, like, yeah, there is a difference, but I think the what do you think? Because Wes Anderson and Noah Mbombach went into a deeper level of making up a world within a world that they're commenting on, the fact that a world, that world is made up, rather realities are made up 100%.

Speaker 2: 34:51

Okay, I understand, I understand. I think these men are extremely intelligent. Oh yeah, a lot of times in film school they'd be like the filmmaker did this because he was, he was trying to do this and I was like no way.

Speaker 1: 35:03

My answer to that would be I was like how do you fucking?

Speaker 2: 35:05

know You're not wrong. Wes Anderson is one of those people that is just so, unfortunately, intelligent Intelligence plus money to make a movie is a disaster for incredible. You know what I mean. Give me some money, I'd love to go make a film, it's time.

Speaker 2: 35:22

But I do think that Wes Anderson has been allowed to create a palette beyond any other filmmaker out there and I think that's why his work is so unique. Like you can say like, oh, I love let's just go with the most obvious Tarantino, I love One Spon at Time in Hollywood, but it's very. There's similarities but it's very visually different from. The visual differences between that and any of his other work are so different. Even though you can say, oh, he does the two shot in the car, oh, he does these tracking shots, he does this and that and this and that. Sure, we can go all day long. Wes Anderson's films look so different, but it's the same damn film. It's like the same shots. You know, like, over and over, like his tropes are beyond any. You have so many Wes Anderson tropes, so I just think that he's all of his worlds are so like, play, like, and there's plays. Even Rushmore has a play within the play. You know what I'm talking about the where he's like. I've seen Rushmore.

Speaker 1: 36:13

What Rushmore's?

Speaker 2: 36:14

great, the kid puts on a play. That's pretty much like a rip of apocalypse now.

Speaker 1: 36:18

Oh, it brings in a helicopter, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2: 36:21

You gotta see that movie. But Wes Anderson's always dealing with that, and also in Tannenbombs. You've seen Tannenbombs. She's putting on plays.

Speaker 1: 36:28

Where he's like. What is this? A bunch of characters.

Speaker 2: 36:31

What characters? It's just a bunch of kids in costumes, like one of the best lines of all time. He's always interested in creating false realities within realities and I think that meta is a thing now. But I mean, I think he was ahead of his time and ahead of his game and people won't, I don't think, even though there's like a hipster culture that respects Wes Anderson now I don't think he'll really get his due until he's gone.

Speaker 1: 36:55

So what's your favorite moment or scene from this film?

Speaker 2: 36:59

You know, just the one that jumps off my head, because I haven't given this much thought, is the one where he comes up and he goes. I forget exactly what he says, but he's like hey, steve Zeezu, it's Owen Wilson comes up to him on the code yeah. I don't know if it's true or not. By the way, Do you?

Speaker 1: 37:16

No, I don't.

Speaker 2: 37:19

I haven't heard from her in 30 years.

Speaker 1: 37:23

I guess it's too late now she never contacted me, you know. Yes, I see, I don't know, you're supposed to be my son, right? I don't know, but I did want to meet you, just in case.

Speaker 2: 37:47

I appreciate that I'll be right back.

Speaker 1: 37:57

Don't go away.

Speaker 2: 37:58

And Life on Mars, but it's played by Sue George.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:02

And he walks to the front and he goes up and lights a joint, smokes it and as he's coming down it slows down, ramp down in time, which I don't know if Anderson's ever done that in any other film. That's a choice, a very strange choice. I've always thought I don't know if him and Yeoman got into it over that or if that was just planned. I have no idea, but I think it's weird that they ramp the speed there to draw the. Is that like, oh, I'm high now, so I'm getting slow? I don't know. That's weird. That's not something he usually does, that's a weird visual choice and he's like, oh, sorry about that, he cut me with one foot off the merry-go-round.

Speaker 2: 38:35

I just think it's such a ridiculous moment. Instead of dealing with the moment, he escapes, and that's what he's been doing his whole life. I believe it's like escaping the realities that are there and then, when he finally goes after something, it's not even real. It's like in trying to make this movie how real is that, as opposed to having a relationship with your actual son, in making this thing to be famous, to be known or something. So that's what I'm saying when I'm getting at this idea of reality and what is the most important things? Is it the things that we make that we'll be remembered by, or is it just our friendship? Is it us recording this conversation, or is it us having this conversation over coffee? Which is more important? I don't know. I'm finding in life that I am less upset about the paintings I don't paint and less upset about the movies I don't make, and more interested in the relationships I have every day. That's good.

Speaker 1: 39:24

No, that's really good, I think. If you had to describe this movie to someone who had not seen it to try and get them to watch it, what would you say?

Speaker 2: 39:35

Man, I have done this so many times. You know, what's your pitch? Oh, you know, it's like the whole film. So you just tell them the whole movie.

Speaker 1: 39:44

No, you know.

Speaker 2: 39:44

I pretty much say have you seen Live Quatic? No, oh my God, man. This is an amazing film where Bill Murray is this like oceanographer-documentarian and he's just so just full of despair and like self-loathing and like at the end of his rope and he just no one likes him and he's so down and beaten down and like trodden on and then you know, on the eve of like this failed premiere, is a strange son that he didn't know even had approaches and says you're my father and I think from there, what you see is just unreal. You see Owen Wilson and Bill Murray really delivering such an amazing performance, supported by an incredible ensemble cast. It's just the most ridiculous thing that I can't even explain, because it's hard to explain the complexities of this film. It's just not like anything else.

Speaker 2: 40:36

Even today I was on a Zoom call with some guys from LA's theater screenwriter guy and this producer, and they've made some pretty big films, pretty good films. And he said I said I was going on this podcast, talked about my favorite movies, so what's that? And I said life aquatic. He goes oh man, I don't know if we can be friends anymore, you know, and I'm the writer of their movie and it's like, okay, well, we didn't get into it. In the moment, I really do like this guy. We have very different styles but we're kind of. He's coming on to work on the script with me a little bit and it's hard to get people to understand.

Speaker 2: 41:11

If you don't, you don't, and I've honestly talked about it so many times that if you don't get it, I'm not going to explain it to you and I don't really want to talk about it. It's tiring, sometimes it's exhausting. It's exhausting. And also my girlfriend of five years. She's never gotten through it. Wow, which is funny because the story of how we began. I have a girl that I walked away from, but at this point, that's how different I am as a human being. It's like if this doesn't speak to you, I don't need my entertainment to appease you.

Speaker 1: 41:40

My partner fell asleep watching it and woke up after Owen Wilson died and she goes wait what happened to Owen Wilson?

Speaker 2: 41:49

Oh my God, you know it's funny. I don't think. I don't. I hate saying this. I don't think Owen Wilson had to die for that film to have an impact. Yeah, I thought that was a weird decision.

Speaker 1: 42:01

Yeah, it was interesting, but though I rewatching it, I was like, oh, I actually love the scene that he died, in which he dies.

Speaker 2: 42:11

It's amazing.

Speaker 1: 42:12

I think it's so incredible. Are you okay? Hey, I'm okay.

Speaker 2: 42:21

What happened? Did we get something?

Speaker 1: 42:25

Looks like we're not.

Speaker 2: 42:29

That may be the push-rout fail. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1: 42:33

Ned, I should have scrapped this chopper 10 years ago.

Speaker 2: 42:37

You know, maybe I should have auto-rotated and performed a high bank draw in the scent, you might have crashed a little soft as the camera is hovering right at the waterline.

Speaker 1: 42:47

every time the water fluctuates right in front of the lens, it gets redder and redder and redder, and it's just like. It's like sad and gorgeous at the same time.

Speaker 2: 42:56

I feel like I really connect with that guy, the look that Bill Murray gives you in his eyes. I felt that way at age 17 in that theater, watching it. I felt that old and sad and tired about being a painter, being an artist, being a human being. I was exhausted in high school I felt so misunderstood and even through college even now to a degree I've given up on caring what people think. But there was a time where I was so exhausted by other people's approval and being so different than what my family wanted me to be. And I think that life and quality, that scene where he died I felt like him. I felt so connected to him the second time I saw him. The first time I was just like what the fuck is going on. And the second time I saw him I was like man, I feel like I am Bill Murray in this movie. When Ned dies, I was like this is devastating and I wanted it for him. I wanted him to win. I wanted him to win and it's weird that they like okay.

Speaker 2: 43:56

So if we think about it for a second, werner, what's the future of this? I always think about that. What's the future of movies after? Does anyone else. Think about that. What's going on? Some movies get me so excited. I'm like I want to watch more of these characters. Do this thing. I want to watch more of Lifequatic. Does Werner become the surrogate son? Is that why he exists in this film? Because there is youth that does like him and does care about him, even though it's not his son. It's too late for him to have the real relationship with his own son. But then also the girl, kay Blanchett's character, jane Covey, it's like is her son going to look up to Zisu? What were they doing, throwing in all these babies and fathers and sons? It's like there's a lot happening.

Speaker 1: 44:41

Right now. If you had to come up with another drink for the Ark Royal based off of Lifequatic, what would it be? Cranponyfish.

Speaker 2: 44:48

Ooh, what is it? I don't have it yet and I'm going to be honest with you. Man, come on, I know I'm going to be honest with you. This is why I don't have it.

Speaker 2: 44:54

Obviously, we know where the Ram-Rum Cannonball came from, but my idea was calling it the Ram Cannonball. Number one, two, three. Every time we change it, I never want that drink name to go away. So we just changed the number. I think we're on number four or five now. And then this is the Belafonte, still number one. I just assumed it would change because I just kept the number, because I never wanted those to leave. And then the third one was the Jaguar shark, which I knew I wanted a mezcal drink, because I'm just a mezcal fiend and I was like no, we'll do something with mezcal. And the fourth one was always the Cranponyfish. But I like the Belafonte and I like the Jaguar shark and I like the Ram Cannonball. But I knew that when we figured out the Cranponyfish I better fucking love it Soon. No one I've ever met. I'm not the cocktail geniuses, right? I'm the guy that can drink something and tell you if I like it. Can I create it? No, not yet. I'm not trying to be that guy.

Speaker 1: 45:45

I think, when you do come up with the idea, though, it should come in a plastic bag.

Speaker 2: 45:50

What the fuck? A thousand percent, oh my God. What a great idea. I'm with that. A hundred percent Awesome. But we have to make it extraordinarily expensive so that no one really orders it, or else we have to put it in a goldfish bag and that's how it should be. Garnished is with like a little something in the bag, you know, and you have to pop a hole in it and drink it, that's fun, but I love that idea.

Speaker 2: 46:14

But I think that the most important thing is that when I watch Life Aquatic, I have fun Once you get past the darkness of it and you realize that the sadness is the funny part like how sad Sisu is becomes so funny because he's so ridiculous. Tiki is fun. Tiki culture is just. It was the antithesis of cocktails. Cocktails became so pretentious on their comeback in like the 2000s, like coming out of New York and LA and wherever they were being rebirthed the craft cocktail oh, you don't know what bourbon you're drinking it was like some bullshit. Tiki is fun. It is a revolution of cocktails. It's been going on since the 30s. People are into it. It's fun. There's I just had a pineapple fall out of my drink.

Speaker 1: 46:58

You know what I mean. It's like where are you going to?

Speaker 2: 47:00

find that in Tiki Like enjoy your life, have fun, watch good movies, drink good drinks, have good loves, have good friends. Who cares about the rest? Legacy doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 47:10

I think that's the perfect point.

Speaker 2: 47:12

I wish to add this has been great man, yeah, fantastic.

Speaker 1: 47:14

I can't thank you enough for having us over here.

Speaker 2: 47:16

It's been awesome. It's been great man In the taboo room.

Speaker 1: 47:18

I know. It's fantastic, we'll keep it safe in here. I'm not going to. Well, I'll have a little bit lefty.

Speaker 1: 47:24

Cheers with them. I appreciate that. Thanks, man, this has been awesome. I'm a big fan of the life aquatic with Steve Zizou. I also really like visiting the Ark Royal, and Patrick and I have known each other for over a decade.

Speaker 1: 47:38

But my greatest joy from recording this very special episode was that I got to make something cool with people I care about. Finding ways to combine community with creation and care is something I'm valuing more and more lately. I can be inspired to write a short film or produce a documentary or make a very special episode of a podcast, but I cannot do it alone. So the biggest of shout outs to everyone who has made this episode happen my crew, keaton Lusk, chris Newman, kishin Kanatra, roland DeLaurier and Kira Moreira. Our bartenders at the Ark Royal, correll and Braden Patrick, of course, for being so gracious with his space and time. Our patrons for inspiring me to be adventurous and creative, and all of the watchers and listeners across six continents for supporting the show just by hitting play.

Speaker 1: 48:32

If you enjoyed what you heard today and I sincerely hope you did please go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform of choice to stay up to date on all episodes of the Film Nuts Podcast, if you happen to be listening on Apple Podcasts, go ahead and leave a rating and review. That helps us get noticed by more awesome people just like yourself. If you want to support the Film Nuts Podcast on Patreon, check out the show notes for that link or visit patreoncom. Our theme this season is brought to us by the Deep End. Our artwork is designed by Madungwa Sipahudi and all episodes of the Film Nuts Podcast are produced and edited by me, taylor D Adams.

Speaker 1: 49:08

If you want to get in touch, you can email filmnutspodcastcom or follow us on Instagram, tiktok and Twitter at Film Nuts Podcast. And don't forget to join the Nuthouse Discord community absolutely free by checking out the link in the show notes. Thank you all so much for listening to and hopefully watching our mid-season finale of the Film Nuts Podcast. We really hope you enjoyed it. We're taking a few months off, but we'll be back before you know it and until then, please, please, please, take care, because life is an adventure.