THE PRINCESS BRIDE with Dr. Alex Dainis

Ever find yourself whisked away into a world of swashbuckling swordsmen, mythical quests, and hilarious hijinks with just the opening credits of a film? That's the power of The Princess Bride, a movie that continues to tickle our funny bones and tug at our heartstrings. Joining me is Dr. Alex Dainis, a science communicator who makes fun and educational videos about all things science for curious audiences everywhere. We're here to bridge a gap between the factual and the fantastical, so join us as we travel down memory lane, reminiscing about the movie's clever framing and the infectious laugh-out-loud moments that make it a timeless classic.

Embark on a rollercoaster of emotion and laughter as we celebrate the quirks and quotes that make "The Princess Bride" a veritable treasure of the '80s. We explore the film's layered themes of love and life lessons, from Inigo Montoya's quest for vengeance to the pure romance of Wesley and Buttercup, acknowledging how these stories shape our understanding of affection and heroism. So, grab your popcorn and prepare to be entertained and enlightened, as we delve into the art of storytelling and the molecular intricacies that make our world, and our favorite films, so enchantingly complex.

Notey Notes:

• PBS Digital Studios' Hungry Planet
• Alex's company, Helicase Media
• Alex's Instagram where science is fun!
  
  

Transcript

Clip: 0:24

You can die too, for all I care as you wish. Oh, my sweet Wesley, what have I done?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 0:38

I think it has so many lovely elements of storytelling and it has some lovely elements of friendship and adventure. It's one of the first adult films I remember watching as a kid and enjoying. Sometimes people like to hate on this movie a little bit because it's not deep and it's not dark and it's not, you know, an exploration of the soul or something. But it is a funny movie.

Taylor D. Adams: 1:05

Hi, I'm Taylor and welcome back to the Film Nuts podcast, a show about why we love what we watch. So what's the best way to tell a story? Well, spoilers, there isn't one right way. Sure, there are things that good stories have in common, like conflict and setups and payoffs, but sometimes all a story really needs is love. The Princess Bride, starring Cary Elwes, robin Wright and Mandy Patinkin, is a story of true love as told by a grandfather to his sick grandson. It's heartwarming and hilarious, wholesome and goofy and a constant boost of dopamine. For my guest today, dr Alex Danis is a science communicator making fun and educational videos about all things science for curious audiences everywhere. She tackles things like genetics and physics, as well as showcasing fun DIY science experiments for people of all ages. Alex also happens to be someone I've worked for on PBS's Hungry Planet. Alex and I talk about the charming campiness of the Princess Bride, how successful the grandfather is at telling a story and our shared childhood fear of quicksand. So would you like to check it out as you?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 2:27

here's dr alex danis talking about the princess bride on the film nuts podcast I think the last time we were in person we were eating hot chili peppers um yeah, that's, that's that's what it was. Oh my gosh, that was a long time ago, yeah I'm excited that that's not happening currently, um, because that was not not the most fun, but not a great moment for you, but yeah no, great moment for film, not for me personally, but yeah, since since we wrapped up a hungry planet I haven't been working anything quite as big as that.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 3:02

But you know, making vids with the American Chemical Society doing some stuff on chirality, with a chemistry nonprofit called the Dreyfus Foundation working with the Museum of Science.

Taylor D. Adams: 3:12

Wait, what was that word? What was that word you said?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 3:14

Chirality what?

Clip: 3:16

is that.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 3:17

So it is the idea that some molecules can contain all of the same atoms but have different configurations, that we refer to as left and right handed. So it's how your hands are symmetrical. But if you put them together this way they overlap. But they don't overlap this way, so they have a handedness to them. So some molecules have a handedness and that can give them totally different properties. So you know, one handedness of a sugar is sweet and the other one your body can't digest. One handedness of thalidomide helps with pregnancy and the other handedness of a sugar is sweet and the other one your body can't digest. One handedness of thalidomide helps with pregnancy and the other handedness gives babies terrible birth defects. So knowing the yeah, knowing the handedness of your molecules is very important.

Taylor D. Adams: 4:01

I knew I was going to learn something talking to you.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 4:03

Yeah, chemistry lesson for the day. I can't tell you anything about the chemistry of Iocane powder, but I can tell you the chemistry of viral molecules.

Taylor D. Adams: 4:13

What a great segue, thank you. It's like you tell stories for a living, for some reason.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 4:20

No, no way.

Taylor D. Adams: 4:22

So, speaking of Iocane powder, why did you want to talk about the Princess Bride?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 4:28

So when you brought up films that I would want to talk about, I thought about a number of things. Right, I thought about Everything, everywhere, all at Once. I thought about Eighth Grade. I thought about a lot of films that have moved me and made me feel different ways, but then I realized that none of those are my favorite film and my favorite film is the Princess Bride.

Clip: 4:50

You guessed wrong.

Clip: 4:51

You only think I guessed wrong. That's what's so funny. I switched glasses when your back was turned. You fool, you fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never, get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 5:18

And it's not an especially deep film and it's not an especially complicated film, but it's just. I think it has so many lovely elements of storytelling and it has some lovely elements of friendship and adventure and is just such a clear, you know, hero's journey kind of film. And I did realize in watching it and I'm sure we'll get into this for the first time in like five to ten years it it also has some big problems, but I think overall it is a it's just a fun film and in watching it last night you know I was watching it with my fiance, who was a little skeptical of it kind of thing, and like we were both laughing, like it's just, this film is older than I am and just still holds up and is funny and charming and I think it's just a nice film and maybe it didn't make me feel as deeply as some of the others but I just love it and I also love and I'm going to make you talk about the accompanying book- oh, look at that book.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 6:22

You have the book, I have the book, and this is my original copy from high school that I don't know if you'll be able to tell on film, but looks like it was purchased in like 1962. This thing is like brown and weathered. It's from, you know, the 2000s. I think this printing was from the 90s. But, like this book, just like, smells like an old book, which is so fitting for this story.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 6:43

Yeah, yeah, and it has the same interesting conceit of the movie of a story being told versus just the story itself, which is cool.

Taylor D. Adams: 6:54

Ah, yeah, that's something I definitely want to get into down the line. Just the different techniques that this thing uses, yes, but, like, you've talked about what you do like about this movie. But what makes it your favorite, though, like is it because it's been with you for a while, or is it something you watch when you need comfort? Like what is it?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 7:14

It's absolutely a comfort and nostalgia film. It's one of the first. I mean it's PG, but it's one of the first adult films I remember watching as a kid and enjoying. You know it wasn't. It's definitely family friendly, but it wasn't necessarily made for kids and it was one of the first not made for kids films that I really enjoyed and liked and watched with my family and everyone was sort of laughing along and quoting it and I think it's maybe one of the most quotable movies in existence. Um, and I think it's just something very unifying throughout my childhood and then early adulthood of both watching the movie and reading the book and just really enjoying that story for a long, long time.

Taylor D. Adams: 8:00

Do you, do you remember the first time you saw it, or was it like that way too long ago?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 8:05

Well, it was one of those things that I think was kind of always on when I was a kid.

Taylor D. Adams: 8:09

And so.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 8:10

I don't specifically remember the first time but I definitely remember being a kid and I think, not getting parts of it, not getting you grew up with that. You know I never understood the like never start a land war in asia. Line like what does that mean to a six-year-old, like what is a land war in asia? But you, you know it starts to get funny as you get older, sort of thing. Um, and I think the you know the relationship between mad max and his wife valerie, you know that at the time is like why is it funny that they're yelling at each other? And then you turn into an adult and you're like this is hilarious that they're yelling at each other this way, um, and like prodding each other with exactly what they know will needle the other one liar liar, get back, witch.

Clip: 9:01

I'm not a witch, I'm your wife. But after what you just said, I'm not even sure I want to be that anymore you never had it so good to love.

Clip: 9:08

He said to love max don't say another word, valerie, he's afraid.

Clip: 9:12

Ever since prince humperdinck fired him, his confidence is shattered. Why'd you say that name? You promised me that you would never say that name.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 9:18

What humperdinck so I think that, too, is one of those things that I it has just sort of always been there in that way that I think many of these kind of 80s movies of the time were and this was the one that I connected to the most, but this one, and you know, labyrinth and um. Robin Hood, men in Tights, like all of these sort of movies of that time period that just felt like they were always on.

Taylor D. Adams: 9:48

When I was a kid this was my favorite of that sort of time period of comedy movies so over over the years, since it's like existed uh, for you rather than the first time, like the times you've watched it. Is there something you've gained more from? Like, you talked about getting the jokes a little bit more, but has it ever hit you in a particular way? I know it's not a deep film, but is there something about it that you've watched over the years that you like appreciate something about it more or less than you did, like a previous time you had watched it?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 10:23

I mean, I think one of the things that struck me the more that I watched it, and especially in college when I started really getting into filmmaking and you know understanding the aspects of a story and how things are told and how different pieces of a movie came together. I think Star Wars is often the movie that's picked out of, like the hero's journey, like here is Act One here is the inc out of like the hero's journey, like here is act one, here is the inciting of it, here's all this.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 10:51

But I think that this hits those beats so well and so satisfyingly that that's something that I think once I started to learn how to pick movies apart, I was able to appreciate that no, it's not the deepest plot in the world but it does sort of really satisfyingly hit these moments and I think the storytelling aspect of it too, the fact that it is a story being told in a broader story and how the grandfather and grandson's commentary I think even underscores, like the inciting event and underscores like, well, she can't die now, like she doesn't die with the eels because it's too early in the story, like she exists at the end, kind of thing. I think those pieces are done so well and are such an interesting addition to this that takes it from being a super standard fantasy story of you know he's not a prince, but you know prince rescues princess, kind of thing, and turns it into something a little more witty, a little more interesting and a little more fun.

Clip: 11:55

She doesn't get eaten by the eels at this time. What the eel doesn't get her? I'm explaining to you because you look nervous.

Clip: 12:05

I wasn't nervous.

Clip: 12:09

Maybe I was a little bit concerned, but that's not the same thing, because we can stop now if you want.

Taylor D. Adams: 12:15

No, you can read a little bit more if you want. Speaking of just kind of the way that the story is told, like as someone whose job it is to explain events and hard to understand facts and topics in an entertaining way, how well do you think Grandpa does at telling the story to his grandson?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 12:32

OK. So I think he does a great job, and I think that this is where I'm going to veer into the book a little bit too. So the conceit of the movie movie right is that the grandfather's coming over, he's telling this story to the grandson, but he's kind of skipping over some parts a little bit right at the beginning. The kid doesn't want to hear the kissing parts, so he skips over those parts, he just gets to the meat of the story.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 12:58

For that reader, or for that, uh, viewer and the listener, the book has a very similar but different conceit that when you pick up the book, it is S Morgan Stern's classic tale of true love and high adventure, but it's edited by William Goldman and the whole beginning of the book is that William Goldman is telling this story about how he used to love this book. His father read to him that was written by S Morgan Stern. He bought a copy of it for his son and his son was like this is the most boring thing ever. And when he picked the book up he realized that his father had been telling him an abridged version and that the original book by S Morgan Stern had all this stuff about politics and the background on floor and in Gilder and all this, but when his father read it to him he skipped those parts out. So now William Goldman was going to publish an abridged version that only told the good parts and skipped the boring parts.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 13:58

Now the reality is that S Morgan Stern doesn't exist. There is no unabridged version of the book. This is the only version of the book that exists, but the whole conceit of the book is that you're reading an abridged version and I love that. I love that there's this like exterior world that we're a part of in the book. That is reading the book, something about that I haven't seen done similarly and.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 14:25

I've seen some things like it, uh, in the years since, but when I first read this in high school, I'd never seen anything like that done before, and it was such an immersive way of reading the book that you felt like you were reading it along with someone, and I think that that's something that movie, the movie, does too, is that you are not watching this movie alone.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 14:44

You're not experiencing the story alone. You're experiencing it with the grandfather and with the grandson and getting their little perspectives on it and the grandson being like ew, it's a kissing book, and like I'm not worried about her dying from the eels and like well, who kills humperdinck. Like you get all those things that you feel from the social experience of watching a movie, but they're embedded in the movie and I you know there are things that do that right, like mystery, science, theater, 3000 or whatever, like they kind of do that. You know there are some shows out there that do that, but it's it's a interesting way to me of getting that social aspect of watching the movie into the movie itself, but that's not what you asked.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 15:26

You asked if the grandfather does a good job, and I think I think he does. I think he's keying in on who his audience is, what his audience wants from the story and what he needs to communicate to get him there. And he changes at the end when he's like, oh, you don't want to hear about the kissing part, we'll skip that. And the audience is like, well, actually maybe I do want to hear the kissing part, and he's like, okay, like well, then we'll add that back in, cause you wanted that additional information. So there's a dialogue between the you know presenter and the audience. So I think he does a good job. But I think, more than anything, that's such a it's a fun way to watch a movie. It's a fun way to experience that social part of a movie.

Taylor D. Adams: 16:03

Yeah, it's very, yeah, it's very meta in the way that it does that. But like I don't remember the first time I saw this either, because, yeah, it was one of those things, it was just kind of always on. Yeah, as I was watching it, like the poisoning scene happens 30 minutes into the movie yeah, I remember that being the whole movie. Like I remember that happening like at the end of the movie and like it happened in the first 30 minutes, I was like wait, what else happens? And then, as this stuff goes on, I was like I remember all this stuff but I could have sworn. The poisoning scene is like the denouement is like it's like the like right after the climax. But I was like oh, this there's like I got an hour left. What's going to? I had no idea.

Clip: 16:43

All right, where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide, and we both drink and find out who is right and who is dead.

Taylor D. Adams: 16:53

You talked a little bit about the hero's journey, um, and that this is kind of an example of that. What you you kind of approaching it in an analytical way, and for someone who makes science videos, that makes sense. Uh, is there a particular the way that you approach making videos about science and hard to understand topics for us, us common people like what's your analytical approach to doing something like that?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 17:22

My approach, and this is not something that I came up with, but it's something that has really resonated with me. Um, when I was actually an oral communication tutor at Stanford, one of the things that they taught was to know your age, and it stood for audience, goal and environment, and I like to think that I have taken that and, like, really applied it to everything that I do. That is for any story I'm telling, any video, I'm making any script, I'm writing. Before I do anything, I want to figure out who is my audience, what is my goal and what is the environment that this is going to live in. So, for a lot of things I do, the environment is YouTube or it's TikTok, but those two environments require something different, right? If you're going to film something horizontal for YouTube versus vertical for TikTok, you need to know that upfront, right? So the environment you're presenting the information in is important, but I think audience and goal are the big things is always being really specific about who are you talking to? What do what can you assume that they know? What can you not assume that they know? What do you think they want to know? Right? What do you want them? What do you think that they're going to want to get out of this, and then what is your actual goal? And that goal can be really different, right? So, if you are, I use this example often.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 18:41

When I was defending my thesis, my goal was to get out of there and prove I was smart, very specific goal.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 18:50

But when I was writing something like Hungry Planet, the goal is to get the audience to think about science in their daily lives.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 18:59

And so once you figure out what each of those specific audience, goal and environment are, then you can start building your film, you can start building your script, you can start adding things to it and always asking, of every little piece you add in, does this support my audience and my goal and my environment? And I think that for me again, it's why I really like the grandfather's storytelling. You know he figures out who his audience is, what that audience needs. The goal is really to distract him from feeling sick. The environment is that he's going to be sitting there with a book, so he's got to bring his book. He pulls in a chair, he sits down, gets cozy like I think we all do that as communicators and as filmmakers but I think really being intentional and analytical about writing those things down or telling people what they are, and just being really clear helps to keep things on track and helps to make your message as clear as possible.

Taylor D. Adams: 19:54

So what's the AGE of this movie? Not.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 19:59

Grandpa's, not his.

Taylor D. Adams: 20:01

Thing but of this movie, what do you think?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 20:03

Of the movie. So environment is the easiest, although I think that's changed over the years. So environment was a giant movie theater or maybe on a tape you're going to bring home and play in your own television. But I think that you know that affects set design, that affects how you're going to film it. You know all of those things are affected by the environment. You're going to film it. You know all of those things are affected by the environment. The audience, I would say probably. You know, oh see, part of me wants to go 80s comedy, adult audience. But I do think that they were pretty aware that it was probably going to be a family-friendly film. You know there's one swear in there At one point he calls him. You know I want my father back you, son of a bitch.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 20:47

And I think that that still allowed them to be PG, because it was only one and it was like really well intentioned but they weren't swearing all the time. You know, they were sort of looking still at that. We're in a PG rating kind of thing. So PG audience and then goals to entertain. I mean, goal of this kind of movie is to entertain and I think you can get more specific with themes of true love and, you know, adventure and that kind of thing, adventures and a theme. But you know, there there are some themes here that true love and, I think, friendship as well. I think we see a lot of building up of, uh, inigo and wesley and physics sort of as this team. You know those relationships between them as well as important. But yeah, I think, I think the goal here really is just entertainment. We're entertaining where we're making money.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 21:34

Right, that's part of the film business we're going to, we're going to make some money to make the next film too.

Taylor D. Adams: 21:40

So what did you fall in love with first? Science or filmmaking?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 21:47

oh, neither what I fell in love with well, no, I know, I know, but let me let me follow that up because I think it's important is that what I fell in love with first was storytelling and I have a very specific memory this is actually kind of sad, but I have a specific memory of being a kid and thinking I wish there was a job, that I could just tell stories all day. But then my sad little child brain was like but that would be lying, no jobs, let you do that.

Taylor D. Adams: 22:22

How old were you during this?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 22:24

I was eight, eight maybe like little right, but like I, I loved telling stories, I loved coming up with like fantasy worlds, like I loved all that sort of like imaginative, imaginative play and writing. I loved writing, I wrote the worst.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 22:38

Oh god, I hope they always stay buried on a hard drive like, and no one should ever see them. But I wrote stories all the time and I actually wrote thinking back. I wrote a lot of like fantasy-esque stories of like princesses escaping their castle and going on adventures, and I liked reading those kinds of things too. I really loved the world of storytelling but I did not see it as something that I could do as a career. And I really enjoyed science. You, by the time I got to sort of middle school, high school, I really enjoyed science a lot. I also enjoyed taking. I had a little like Canon power shot camera that could take videos and I would take videos of my friends all the time and edit them together.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 23:17

But I also didn't see filmmaking as something that I could make into a serious career. And I went to college for science and for biology and it wasn't until, I think, my sophomore year that I kind of let myself start taking a couple of film courses. There was a film minor at that point in time and then they opened it up as a major and I felt weird about it. But I was like, well, I've still got science, like I'll do filmmaking as a major, but I'm I'm really a scientist right, like that's my thing okay.

Taylor D. Adams: 23:48

But I felt like I got a really so you decided that you were gonna like have a double major. Is that the decision?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 23:55

yeah, yeah, so I double majored uh in biology and film, um, and felt like I got a really great hands-on bio experience, but, through no fault of their own, the film department was very young, and so I didn't felt like I got a really great hands-on bio experience.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 24:04

but, through no fault of their own, the film department was very young, and so I didn't feel like I got the best hands-on film experience just because there weren't enough opportunities yet. It really wasn't their fault. So I graduated and I was burnt out and knew I wasn't going to go straight to grad school and ended up getting a job at a small production company that did mostly videos and installations for museums and that was really, really fun because it let me sort of be. I was an associate producer. I got to do all parts of the filmmaking world but for this sort of niche and sometimes scientific area, but again really still niche and sometimes scientific area, but again really still I loved it. That job was incredible but I still knew I was going to go back to school for science.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 24:50

I knew I was going to go and get my PhD in science and I just sort of had you know YouTube channel on the side, but this is a long way of saying I didn't realize until the very end of grad school that I could do both and that I could have a career that would combine science and filmmaking and storytelling into something that you know, knock on wood and huge amounts of gratitude to the universe actually allows me to make a career and keep doing the stuff that I love. So it was the answer to your original question. Which did I fall in love with? First? I think maybe science, maybe science just because I was more exposed to it. But truly the thing that I really loved and that I think both of them allow me to do is tell stories, and that's just the most fun part.

Taylor D. Adams: 25:39

So sorry for the interruption, but I will be brief. I am so grateful that you decided to listen to the Film Nuts podcast today. If you are enjoying what you're hearing, please consider supporting the show on Patreon. With a small monthly amount, you can get access to behind the scenes goodies, early access to full episodes and you can vote on what movie we watch the first Monday of every month on the Nuthouse Discord. The Nuthouse itself is free to join and is full of other film and TV lovers, so you'll fit right in.

Taylor D. Adams: 26:07

You can check out info on all these things in the show notes, and if all of this sounds like a bit too much, that's totally okay. But if you want to keep up to date on all of our episodes, please be sure and subscribe on your favorite platform of choice, and if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, go ahead and leave a rating and review so we can get in front of other awesome people like yourself. Okay, enough of me rambling Back to the good stuff. So your fantasy stories you used to write that you hope never see the light of day.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 26:34

Tell me the one that was your favorite that you wrote the one that was my favorite, that I wrote. I don't even actually remember. I don't remember a ton of the plot other than there was a princess who was in a castle and she I don't know what the motivating, motivating factor was, but she had to escape for some reason and knowing myself at that age was probably like she was being forced into marriage and she had to escape. So she steals a horse and she goes off and I also I really loved the details of these kinds of stories. I really loved the world building aspect of it. So I remember that I spent a lot of time detailing what she brought with her and what, like the riding clothes and what the horse looked like, like I really loved the world building aspect of that of like what did this place? I didn't know that this is what I was doing, but what did this place look?

Taylor D. Adams: 27:30

like right kind of thing.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 27:32

So she escapes, she makes it to a local town where obviously nobody recognizes her as the princess of this thing. Um, and she, she like, made some kind of career, like years passed and then she went back and she reassumed the throne, like it was again. All of this was like I don't know, maybe a 20 page story I wrote when I was 10 or something, but I just remember really enjoying the like adventure and going out and making your way, and I think this has come back up in my life a lot that the books I loved to read too. I was just talking with somebody about, you know. You know I loved my side of the mountain and I loved a girl named disaster. I loved these books where these preteens were like running off into the woods and making their way and then coming back and being like I've learned things.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 28:18

Um and I was not an outdoorsy kid but I've become a very outdoorsy adult who loves camping and backpacking and those sorts of things and I think I'm finally fulfilling that part of me that wanted to, wanted to go on a journey and an adventure as a kid and now can safely, with proper training, do it as an adult. Exist in these worlds that I was reading about in books and I wanted to. Yeah, I was so oriented on the details of like what was in her satchel that she brought with her. What tools did she need and again, I see that so much in myself as an adult now of like I love the planning and the like gear aspect of backpacking, of like what tools get to go in my satchel. There's definitely a through line there.

Taylor D. Adams: 29:04

So, like with the stories you wrote as a kid and the fact that now you so, as a kid you didn't like do a lot of outdoor stuff, were you adventurous at all, like as a person, as a little kid or?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 29:16

No, I was a shy, quiet kid and you know I was outdoorsy in the sense that, like my mom had a garden and I would like plant flowers and stuff, but I didn't really go camping. You know, girl Scouts at the time was all about selling cookies. It wasn't actually about doing outdoor things. You know, I was not that person as a kid. I was very reserved and very quiet and very honestly scared of the world in a lot of ways, and I think that's probably what I admired about a lot of these stories was it was people who weren't scared of those things who were going out in the world and taking charge. And that's actually one of the things that I again I hadn't actually watched this movie in like five, six years that I noticed last night that I was like man butter. Buttercup does nothing in this movie, you know.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 30:07

I was like she's classic 80s, 80s problem, you know exactly, but I remember, even as a kid, the scene, that poisoning scene, you know. Wesley and Vizzini are going back and forth and she's just sitting there with a blindfold on.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 30:21

And I remember, even as a kid being like it's so weird that she's just sitting there with a blindfold on, and I remember, even as a kid being like it's so weird that she's just sitting there with a blindfold on, but I didn't question it more than just like note that it was weird and last night I was like God damn it, like go run away, Like what are you doing?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 30:35

So I think you know, I think if I had to pick a character in this story like I probably wanted to be Wesley, right, I wanted to be the Dread Pirate Roberts and running around with the sword and doing all these kinds of things, and I just think it's funny that I connected so strongly with this, whereas, looking back in the stories I was writing, it was always the princess going out and doing these things right and like man. The story is called the Princess Bride and the princess does nothing.

Taylor D. Adams: 30:58

She just does absolutely nothing this whole movie, other than being like a little grumpy sometimes I guess the one thing she does do is she escapes the first time and tries to swim to shore, but she does.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 31:11

But that's about it yeah, and she doesn't even get herself back in the boat, right like she doesn't even swim back to the boat, fesik, just like, yoinks her out of the water at one point, um, but it's just like, okay, you're right, I guess I should give her credit, she does try, but then after that she just gives up entirely, even in the, even in the fire swamp. I think I was a little surprised that, like you know, they can hear the pop, pop, pop and instead of her stepping to the side every time, wesley picks her up and moves her over. And I'm like, ma'am, just like, step to your left.

Taylor D. Adams: 31:42

Yeah, maybe she should have, yeah, read some more fantasy novels. She would have been more prepared. I agree, pack some, pack some better gear. Maybe she would have been better off.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 31:51

Yeah, that is one thing again too, that I noticed last night. That Is so silly of a thing to notice. None of them have anything with them. Like literally all Wesley has is a sword and apparently a tuba. I came powder, but as he's like running over the mountains, at one point I was like man, I wish I would want a water bottle, I'd want a snack.

Taylor D. Adams: 32:13

Like all these people are totally unprepared for the situations they're getting themselves into, were you as terrified of quicksand as a kid as I was, and like where is the quicksand now? Where is the?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 32:23

quicksand. Now, where is the quicksand? Well, I'll tell you, I had my one almost encounter with quicksand last week. Um, I know, I know, I finally and I thought this in the moment I was like it's happening, this is my, this is my quicksand moment, because you're right, so quicksand, there were a bunch of things like that that, as kids quicksand I thought I'd run into all the time. Sticks of dynamite seemed like a thing that people just stumbled across all the time, especially in like looney tunes, and stuff like that was everywhere. Um, those washing machines or dryers that you'd like roll things through, those always showed up in cartoons yeah, yeah but like never in my life.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 32:59

Um, but last week I went out with a friend to death valley because, after the hurricane last year, death valley actually currently has a lake in it and you can go out onto this lake which is very cool it's super cool, but it's not really like a beautiful lake you imagine, you know, with an oasis around it, because it's normally just a muddy excuse me, muddy basin.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 33:26

So as we're walking out there, there's this salt crust on everything, and so you're walking on the salt, on mud, and that's fine, and then suddenly your foot punches down through the salt and you just hit this sand and mud underneath you and it just like sucks into your ankle, um, and it's not so deep, but you know, I got two steps out and if you stop you start sinking down into it. And so, you know, my friend and I are taking pictures and we're looking around and I'm taking pictures of her, like out in the lake, and then I go to move and I was like, oh, I'm, I'm stuck. And there were people think thankfully we had seen people take off their shoes, so we didn't have our shoes on, but there were people's shoes that were just like stuck out in the mud. Oh, wow, because you were, it was really sort of squelching you down and I was like this is this is my quicksand moment. I know not to panic.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 34:14

I know to like slowly lift myself up but yeah, as a kid you know, quicksand was in everything and I just I was so prepared for like I would meet it every time. And now, once in 35 years have I met quicksand and it was thankfully not life-threatening, though I will say the salt because it's, it's crystallized into these. You know, beautiful little you, not hexagonal, but I guess sort of square, chunky crystals.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 34:46

It cut up our ankles, like my ankles have all these little cuts on them from like going down through the salt and the mud below.

Clip: 34:52

Yeah.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 34:54

So beautiful and weird and strange, but the only time in my entire life that I have encountered something even close to quicksand.

Taylor D. Adams: 35:05

So one thing I was noticing while watching this movie I had for it's. I don't know how long it's been since I've actually seen this movie. Um, I actually want to say maybe I've only actually ever seen it once, but then I've just seen bits like throughout yes, you know, yes, so this movie's so funny, like I was laughing way more than I remember laughing, and it was such a weird balance I thought of, like it's, it's so goofy and yet it's really clever. But it also balances being like a family movie and a romance and like some kind of like meta commentary on story and all of it works. Like nothing stands out as like nothing works about this movie. So, like here's, here's an interesting question If someone God forbid this gets remade and they do the exact same, like what do they do? The exact same thing? Would it work? Or if they did it and they did some other bullshit, uh, would that work?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 36:20

I mean, I would be heartbroken if they ever remade this because I do think that there's something about the time period that made it work. I think it's. You know it's it's goofy, but it's also I think it really is campy right, like I think this actually hits. It's really hard to be campy well and I think this hits that. I think if they did it now, there would be CGI and there would be all this stuff. That would just feel wrong, like when they're in that scene in the fire swamp.

Clip: 36:41

What are the three terrors of the fire swamp? One the flame spurt, no problem, there's a fire swamp. One the flames burn, no problem. There's a popping sound proceeding. Each we can avoid that. Two the lightning sound, but you were clever enough to discover what that looks like. So in the future. We can avoid that too, wesley. What about the RUSs? Rodents of unusual size?

Clip: 37:01

I don't think they exist.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 37:03

This is the first time that I had noticed this and I was like, oh my gosh, there's a person.

Taylor D. Adams: 37:07

There's a person in the rat suit.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 37:08

There's a person in the rat suit.

Taylor D. Adams: 37:10

That's who I noticed too.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 37:11

Waving their arms and I was like, oh my gosh, but like it's so funny because of that. It is funny because you're like, oh my God, there's a person in the rat suit and if they made that a CGI rat it would be. It would just feel gross and uncanny valley and like, but no one would let you today. I don't think anyone today would let you put a person in the rat suit. Or if they did, it would be like a jurassic park style rat suit that looks really real. And it's so funny because it doesn't look real like the face on that rat is so ridiculously puppety that I think just worked so well in that time period. And I think too, there's the cast is incredible.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 37:52

I don't know who you could cast in some of those roles today that would hit as well as they all did. I mean, mandy Patinkin has done a thousand incredible things, but he will always be Inigo Montoya, like that's. That's just who he is, and I, I think too, like god. Billy Crystal as Mad Max, like all of those people, I think, just do such an incredible job.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 38:16

I would hate to see who they cast in those roles today, because they could. It doesn't matter who it is, they couldn't live. I think the practicality of it being made in the 80s, the like fact that all of those sets were real, that it was all these people just kind of goofing off but doing it in this really refined way, I just don't think it would hit the same way if it was made today. I really don't and I'd hate to see it in CGI. Oh, that would kill me.

Taylor D. Adams: 38:47

Yeah, I don't think. Yeah, definitely I'm. I'm much more of a fan of like things being like practical, like practical effects. You know, go ahead, throw somebody in a rat suit, like that it's. It's weird, like I always like. The peak of practical effects to me is like 80s horror movies, like, yeah, the thing is like that's perfect, like everything that's horror and practical and the thing is lovely and I mean it's gross, but it's perfect.

Clip: 39:12

Yes.

Taylor D. Adams: 39:13

So, yeah, I'm just kind of like, yeah, we would, we should not, we should stop. You know, we, the industry, should stop remaking stuff, but we don't have another hour to go down that rabbit hole. No, Okay, spinning back into the positive. What is your favorite moment or scene from this movie?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 39:35

Oh, that's a great question, because I have so many, I mean, I think that's really really hard. I think there are a number that make me laugh really hard. Again, the whole scene with Mad Max I think is delightful. I quote the like mutton, lettuce and tomato line, like all the time.

Clip: 39:57

True love is the greatest thing in the world, except for a nice MLT, a mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich. When the mutton is nice and lean and the tomato is ripe, it's so perky I love that.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 40:08

I think everything about that scene is so funny and so delightful. I do think that the to the pain you know. Speech.

Clip: 40:20

To the pain means the first thing you lose will be your feet below the ankles, then your hands at the wrists, next to your nose and then my tongue.

Clip: 40:29

I suppose I killed you too quickly the last time. A mistake? I don't mean to duplicate.

Clip: 40:34

Tonight I wasn't finished. The next thing you lose will be your left eye, followed by your right, and then my ears.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 40:40

I understand, let's get on with it and he stands up at the end with the sword and he says drop, your sword is so powerful, and then he immediately like kind of collapses.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 40:49

But I think, honestly, the things that get me more are the little, just the little funny moments in there.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 40:55

Like one of the things I cracked up about the most last night is there Wesley isn't quite woken back up from his death yet and Fezzik is sort of carrying him and just like moving his head to look between people as they're and like it's just so funny to me, like it's those little moments that are just like oh gosh, like that's so great and I, yeah, I think honestly it's the little bits throughout that movie that I love the most, though I think visually there's something that always struck me and again I think it's because it's sort of a practical effect that I really love of them all jumping out of the window at the end onto the white horses, like as she falls down and like her dress is fluttering or whatever it's just such like a oh yeah, we're watching a fantasy film and this isn't real and it's just like this beautiful constructed moment, like I do love that it wraps up so perfectly and beautifully, again as sort of a commentary on that whole genre.

Taylor D. Adams: 41:53

But just like it fits, it fits there what did your uh, what did your fiancee think of this movie? You said he was kind of hesitant to watch it. But what did he think?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 42:02

oh hesitant, in that he is like a serious film buff and that this is not a serious film. And so when I was like guess what, I'm taking over our TV with this tonight, he, you know, he kind of groaned or whatever, but he too he was laughing along and like admitted sort of similarly that like he'd forgotten how funny the movie was. Um, and so I think that's one of the things where I think I think sometimes people like to hate on this movie a little bit because it's not deep and it's not dark and it's not, you know, an exploration of the soul or something, but it is a funny movie, like it is a comedy and it is.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 42:37

It hits all the notes it needs to hit and I think you know he appreciated that, I think more than he expected he would last night when it was like. Oh yeah, this is. This is really good. And just catching him to laughing at all those little bits like that too, like the moving the head back and forth he was laughing at.

Taylor D. Adams: 42:51

Yeah, I was like I don't think I noticed that bit until, yeah, I didn't notice that bit until like toward the end of the scene and I was like, oh, he's turning his head the whole time. It's great, this. What was kind of interesting to me watching this is like, yeah, it's funny, it's very entertaining, like it's got like the 80s problems of movies, which is like, yes, you forgive it because it's of the time, and as long as the movie itself is good, you're like cool, whatever. Yeah, but what really struck me is so the like.

Taylor D. Adams: 43:18

The very last line of the movie is like the grandpa says to the grandson, as you wish, which is like code for I love you and i'm'm thinking back for like, like this is going to sound like grand and, you know, pretentious, but like the power like of stories and that the fact they can connect us across distances and generations, like. I guess just that kind of like. That's an opinion I have and something I noticed. I don't know if there's something that you, you, you agree with or if you want to expand upon. I, I started talking and I didn't realize it was a question. I was like I'm just gonna say this and see what happens well, no, I think, I think it's a good.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 43:58

I think it's sort of the whole commentary on not just story and movies in general, but that specifically right. That like the son is so annoyed that his grandfather is coming over, he doesn't feel good, he doesn't want the grandfather to pinch his cheek like he doesn't want to do this, but then through the power of story, you know, they connect over that, they connect across these generations and he asks him to come back tomorrow, sort of thing. So I think I think it's. If there is a theme, certainly the broader theme of the movie is love in all these different kinds of ways. You know the love of Inigo Montoya for his father sends him on this entire revenge journey. You know the love between Wesley and Buttercup sets this whole movie in motion, kind of thing. You know Humperdinck doesn't love her, he loves his country more than that and that sets across, you know, this whole idea that he's going to try and start a war, there's all these.

Taylor D. Adams: 44:46

He loves his, he loves his position more than his country. But yes, that's true, that's actually.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 44:51

Yes, that's a much better way of phrasing that he loves, he loves his power, um, but it does all wrap back up again between the grandfather and the son. That that's really what drove this story and what told the story quite literally was the love between the grandfather and the son. So no, I think that's a perfect observation, that really that is that's storytelling, but also this story are you gonna convince your fiancee to say as you wish to you more?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 45:18

oh, I oof that, I think would freak me out like that, like it's a little too much like he would say it and you would be like, stop, don't, don't do it as you wish was all he ever said farm boy, fill these with water please as you wish.

Clip: 45:49

That day, she was amazed to discover that when he was saying as you wish, what he meant was I love you again.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 45:56

That's one of the things that I I didn't notice before but like in addition to buttercup doing practically nothing in this movie, I'm like man you were kind of a bitch like at the whole beginning like oh man like okay, I don't know why, wesley, you fell in love with her, but like she was kind of mean to you for a long time, um yeah yeah, they just had to get out of the way.

Taylor D. Adams: 46:19

Play, listen, uh, she's in love with him, deal with it. And now the story starts like that.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 46:24

It really, it really does. They really just like, turns out they were in love with each other and now we start the story.

Taylor D. Adams: 46:31

Um, yeah, there's a lot of convenient things going on, but, like again, we're looking it through a lens of this happened, you know, almost 40 years ago, maybe 40 years ago, um yeah, so things have changed.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 46:44

I'm.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 46:45

I'm okay with those kinds of moments in movies sometimes when it's like you know, I really don't want to see their whole love story, Like I kind of don't care, I want to see them get to the good parts, and I think there are so many times in television and movie now where those points can be really belabored and it's like, oh my God, can we just get? Like I get it, this person hates this person and they're going to try and kill. Like let's just go, like keep going. So I actually really don't mind that in this, that it's like, yeah, that's not the point. Like, just believe this and let's keep going.

Taylor D. Adams: 47:19

So where you are now in your life, having, you know, uh, grown up telling stories and gotten like, less scared about the world, um, less shy. Is there any? Sometimes I hate this question, but sometimes the response is really good. But like would you say anything to eight year old you to like tell her it's okay or it's a, you know, you can be less scared, the world's not that bad? Like would, not knowing what you know now, were there anything you would say?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 47:51

For sure I would. I mean I was a. I think it served me well, but I was a kid who was so concerned with doing the right thing at all times, you know.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 48:03

I had to get the best grade and I had to make sure I wasn't breaking any rules and all that and that served me well.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 48:10

It got me, you know, far in my academic career and I think is an important life lesson.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 48:15

But I do wish she'd known it was okay to break rules sometimes, you know. It was okay to color outside the lines, it was okay to be a little different and creative, because it took me a really long time, I think, to get to a point where I felt comfortable feeling creative and understanding that I could have a career. And I still feel a little weird calling myself creative. It's still something that I think is a skill that I work on and I wish it's a skill I had felt comfortable, comfortable developing sooner. So I think, you know, taking chances, breaking the rules, a little bit, coloring outside the lines I wish that I could go back and tell her that you know it's okay to go be a pirate on a pirate ship for five years and then train someone else to be the pirate after you, Like you know, maybe, maybe not all the killing people parts of it, but I think that life is so much more interesting when you are a little less scared of it.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 49:12

So, yeah, I wish, I wish I could go back and tell her that.

Taylor D. Adams: 49:16

I didn't realize how many quotable moments from this movie what? Yeah. One of my favorites was like there's not a lot of money in revenge. I thought that line was really funny for some reason. So to send us home. What is your favorite quote?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 49:33

I've been struggling with this because, as you said, so much of this movie is so quotable and I went back and forth between two and I finally narrowed it down because these are the two that I use the most and I quote this movie all the time it down because these are the two that I use the most, and I quote this movie all the time, and so I think one of my, my second favorite, is after Vizzini says inconceivable for something that is absolutely conceivable.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 49:56

For the third or fourth time, inigo turns to him and says you keep using the word. I don't think it means what you think it means and I love that so much like it's so perfect in the movie, but it's also just so perfect in so many aspects of life.

Taylor D. Adams: 50:11

Right.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 50:11

Like everyone knows that person who keeps saying this thing. It's like I don't think that means what you think it means.

Taylor D. Adams: 50:17

Right yeah.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 50:18

And I I love that so much. But the other one is actually another Inigo moment where he is trying to explain what happened that day and he was like let me explain.

Clip: 50:29

No, there is too much.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 50:31

Let me sum up and I think that that's like both of those together are just my career. It's like I don't think that word means what you think it means and then also like let me explain, no, there's too much.

Dr. Alex Dainis: 50:40

Let me sum up like I, I love those both and they're not even the funniest parts of the movie, but they're just ones that I quote all the time, I think about all the time and I just like. Let me sum up, like, oh no, I just feel that so often and I think as well, is an important storytelling lesson.

Taylor D. Adams: 51:01

When you said the first one, I was like, yes, that makes so much sense for Alex. And then the second one it makes even more sense. Like I'm going to, I'm going to sum up the ways that you're wrong. I'm going to sum up the ways. Here's the right thing to say, here's the facts, and I'm going to sum it up in a way that is super digestible for you to understand, which is what you were doing now, and you're doing a great job at it, and I'm very grateful that we got to work on some projects together and, hopefully, projects in the future, right?

Dr. Alex Dainis: 51:28

Yes, yes, fingers crossed. I got a whole bunch of stuff that I hope we can work on in the future, because that's one of the great things I think about the careers that we're in is you get to meet a bunch of people who all have cool skills and they'd be like, oh my gosh, can our skills make something together? Like that's the most fun part.

Taylor D. Adams: 51:53

I think one of the great things about movies, books and art in general is their ability to take us to places beyond our imagination. We can treat these journeys as escapes from our everyday lives, but what I think is really cool is when these journeys are able to expand our horizons. Watching a movie about brave and intrepid adventurers makes us want to get out there and explore the world. A film about forging friendships can force us to re-evaluate our own relationships, and enjoying a romantic comedy can lead us to love each other a little bit more, even if it doesn't end up in marriage.

Taylor D. Adams: 52:31

A huge thanks to Alex for chatting with me today and a Fezzik-sized thank you to you for listening. Please check out some of the links in the show notes for some of Alex's work, including episodes of Hungry Planet. If you enjoyed the episode today, please go ahead and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform of choice, and if you happen to be listening on Apple Podcasts, please pretty please leave a rating and review so it helps us get in front of more awesome people like yourself. If you want to continue supporting the show and maybe help it grow a little bit and get some cool perks in the process, please consider supporting the Film Notes podcast on Patreon. You can find links to that in the show notes or visit patreoncom.

Taylor D. Adams: 53:09

Slash film nuts. Our theme this season is brought to us by the Deep End. Our artwork is designed by Mudungwa Sibuhudi and all episodes on the Film Nuts podcast are produced and edited by me, taylor D Adams. If you want to get in touch, you can email filmnutspodcast at gmailcom or follow us on Instagram, tiktok and Twitter at filmnutspodcast, and don't forget to join the Nuthouse Discord community absolutely free by checking out the link in the show notes as well. Thank you all again. So much for listening today and until next time. Here's hoping your lives are filled with adventure and not rodents of an unusual size. Take care.