Awakening Sensuality and Reconnecting to Yourself with Cindy Scharkey

This conversation is a necessary and stimulating (pun intended) exchange between Cindy and myself. This podcast was created to serve and focus on you, the special needs mom, and this episode does exactly that. It implores you to connect to yourself and to what you need and to the sensations of your body.

Cindy Scharkey is a nurse with over 3 decades of experience in healthcare. She is passionate about breaking the silence surrounding women’s sexuality and empowering parents to be their child’s sexual health educator. Through her podcast, Permission for Pleasure, as well as her workshops, newsletter and consultations, she desires to provide the holistic sex education that every woman needs to experience more pleasure.


Resources from this episode
Esther Perel
The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron


Connect with our guest, Cindy Scharkey
Website www.cindyscharkey.com
Instagram @cindyscharkey
Facebook @scharkeycindy
Podcast Permission for Pleasure www.cindyscharkey.com/podcast

Connect with Kara, host of The Special Needs Mom Podcast:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thespecialneedsmompodcast/
Website: https://www.kararyska.com/

Coaching Opportunities
Pathway to Peace {Group Coaching Program}: Schedule a Consult or Contact Me

Transcript

0:05

Hi, I'm Kara, life coach, wife and mom to four incredible and unique children. It wasn't all that long ago that my son received a diagnosis that had my world come crashing down. I lacked the ability to see past the circumstances, which felt impossible. And the dreams I once had for my life and family felt destroyed. Fast forward past many years of surviving and not at all thriving, and you'll see a mom who trusts that she can handle anything that comes her way and has access to the power and confidence that once felt so lacking. I created the special needs mom podcast to create connection and community with moms who find themselves feeling trapped and with no one who really understands. My intention is to spark the flair of possibility. In your own life and rekindle your ability to dream. This isn't a podcast about your special needs child. This is a podcast about you. If you are a mom who feels anxious, alone, or stuck, then you are in the right place. Welcome.

Kara: 1:14

Hello, and welcome to the special needs mom podcast today. I'm excited for a guest, an interview style episode. And this is a little different than a lot of them. And I'm super excited about it. I actually just got off of the recording, and it's a really rich conversation. And I want to implore you, encourage you to stick with it the whole time. Some of it, you might be tempted to be like, Hey, Uh, I don't have time for this, ain't nobody got time for this, but, resist that, stick with it. I think it's worth it. So Cindy, Cindy Sharkey is our guest and she is a nurse with over, I think she said four decades of experience. It's a lot of decades. She's passionate about breaking the silence surrounding women's sexuality and empowering parents to be their child's sexual health educator through her podcast, permission for Pleasure, as well as at her workshops, newsletter and consultation. She desires to provide the holistic sex education that every woman needs to experience. More pleasure. So really she is a pleasure salesperson behind the guides of a sex educator. Just kidding. But really her passion is woman and her passion is women experiencing pleasure, and you will see how this collides so deeply into the work that I do with my clients and coaching and essentially, huge part of reclaiming who we are. And re discovering or reconnecting with our identity. Alrighty, well, let's get right into the episode. Cindy, welcome to the special needs mom podcast.

Cindy: 3:07

Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.

Kara: 3:10

Okay. Let's start this conversation off I'm intrigued because it's not everybody that wants to, talk about, I wouldn't call them bold topics, life sciences. I don't know, that openly and I guess don't want to call it taboo because it shouldn't be taboo, but a topic that not that many people talk about. And you do, you talk a lot about it. You educate, you're clearly passionate. And I'm curious How you got here, like what led you down the road to being an educator on women's health and women's sexuality?

Cindy: 3:43

Thanks for asking. I call it kind of a silenced topic

Kara: 3:48

it. That's exactly what I

Cindy: 3:50

because there is so much silence around our bodies. pleasure and sex, especially for women. And I've been a nurse for, I can't believe it now. It's almost four decades now. And, a lot of that time in, women's health, labor and delivery. Education, teaching parents, teaching moms, and then OBGYN. Back office, working GYN, just working with women a lot of years and I love women. They're my favorite. And I just found the majority of women really didn't have a lot of education around their bodies, around sex, and certainly around pleasure,

Kara: 4:33

That word would have never even been on my radar to enter into the conversation, which I think suggests that it's not part of the conversation to your, like to what you saw and to what you noticed. Yeah.

Cindy: 4:44

And I think, you know, I had three daughters. I'm married to the love of my life. We had girls in our home. three daughters, lots of girls, lots and lots of girls. And I found that these girls, they needed me to teach them how to put a tampon in. They needed to understand what their periods were about. They wanted to know about birth control. You know, they got an STI and they didn't know what to do with the meds. You know, it was just, there were so many questions around so many sexual health issues as well as sex. and there was no one to ask them to, I don't know, I tend to be, I tended to end up being the mama shark and that's what they all call me. And, I just fell into it a bit, I think through my own daughters, my work as a nurse and all their friends and wanting, I don't know, I just got really passionate about wanting women to experience more pleasure and learn to live and be in their bodies. with confidence and joy

Kara: 5:44

Oh, that's a mission statement to get behind. So, it sounds like that you saw this collective of women that you were serving as a nurse that actually were so, I guess the word's ignorant or uneducated, about their bodies and then you were, meanwhile, educating your daughters and seeing like this gaping hole in how we talk about, think about all things women's health issues. Sex and pleasure. So sounds like one step after another. You followed the bread crumbs, and now you're here today.

Cindy: 6:14

I am today, and it's all I talk about.

Kara: 6:19

That's awesome. I think it's one of those things when you're always focusing on something, like you get to be the biggest benefactor. Like you're, my guess is that your eyes on pleasure all the time, which I can only imagine impacts the way that you show up in your own life with, I mean, is that a fair assumption?

Cindy: 6:36

Absolutely. And for those of you who are younger, like I'm going to be 60 next month. But I've never felt more freedom. I've never been paying as much attention to my body. And I've never experienced more pleasure and delight than at this stage in my life.

Kara: 6:55

I think that gives us all something to look forward to, that it only gets better from here. Well, initially before we had talked the first time I was like, okay, what's the, angle I want to take on this? Where do we want to go, to serve my community in this? And I had come up with a title and it was going to be something along the lines of sex when you're, when you're nothing but stressed. And I think that could be an interesting conversation for sure. That's not going to be the conversation we have today, because when you and I connected, we just kept kind of, I guess, geeking out on all the things that we're mutually passionate about. And it does align with this. Well, I guess I would describe it as. Women's connection to themselves and their bodies. Would you, I mean, that's a really simple way of summarizing, right. and I'm coming from this as a, from a completely different angle, and really, just like you in your, nursing practice or nursing, work, notice these, gaps. And so as I coach women, I keep seeing these, I'll call them disconnections and these patterns that I know I experienced in my life as well. So we're going to talk about this gap today through the lens of pleasure, sensuality, and language that actually I'm going to invite you to even, expand for us because as when we talked initially, I have a very, I think that I have a very narrow view of some of these, words, this vocabulary we're going to talk about. And I found it like deeply inspiring and intriguing to open it up. Okay.

8:32

So

Kara: 8:32

we're having this conversation and let's start some recalibration. A vocabulary, the basics. So how would you define sensuality?

Cindy: 8:47

Sensuality is, to me, is our senses within our body. Using our senses. what you taste, what you touch, what you smell, what you see, what you imagine, and then connecting that to the feelings in our body. It can be sexual certainly, but it's sensuality is its whole own separate thing. not sexual, but everyone is sensual. How in touch we are with that is a whole

Kara: 9:20

yeah, why do you think that that word sensual gets, attached to sexual?

Cindy: 9:28

I think culturally that is the skew. I mean, personally, I didn't, I wasn't raised up to be in tune with feeling things in my body, rather not listening to my body, not trusting her. and I think that's how it is for a lot of people, especially women.

Kara: 9:49

Yeah. And that's, I think where our worlds collide because as I come alongside women, ultimately, gosh, there's so many different aspects of this, but, There's a loss of identity that I find is, significantly apparent with a lot of the parenting journey. I'm sure, you know, with all parenting, but I think particularly with parenting, any sort of disability. And so part of this, loss of identity, I think, is we wake up our senses, as in feeling things in our body, it helps us rediscover ourselves, right? Because if we're completely disconnected from our bodies, we actually have no way of listening to ourselves. If we have no way of listening to ourselves, how do we know who we are? We don't. We would only have our brain, which our brain's very helpful in a lot of ways, but not with this. So, yeah, I just love even the simple description that you have. Sensuality is senses in our body. Go a little deeper on that if you mind. So this would be the, through the lens of the five senses, right?

Cindy: 10:55

hmm,

Kara: 10:56

Touch taste. Do I have them all?

Cindy: 11:00

And I add in imagination. I will say that I think that notoriously women have not been encouraged also to feel things with their senses and pleasure and savor that. Like this idea of savoring, I'm going to add that in. Because as we talk about this more. Do we allow ourselves to feel pleasurable sensations in our body and savor Hillary McBride has been one of my biggest teachers around my body and my journey with my body. And she says, sensation, which I had her on the podcast and she said this, and I keep writing it down to myself. Sensation is communication.

Kara: 11:45

Mm hmm. Oh, that hits home.

Cindy: 11:48

Sensation is communication. Our bodies are, they're constantly talking to us. They're constantly signals, and as through her research and others, it has shown our body is sending more signals to our brain than our brain to our bodies.

Kara: 12:05

Mm hmm.

Cindy: 12:06

But are we listening?

Kara: 12:09

Well, I think we agree that women especially are taught not to listen, not, apparently, but subconsciously taught not to listen. Right now we were not having lessons like, okay, now ladies, let's not feel our bodies. It's more like, just keep going. Right? Maybe work harder. I mean, again, that's probably not directly being said, but there's all these subconscious messaging. So sensations, communication, and we've been taught to not listen and to ignore or, Ooh, this one really gets me mad or to de prioritize.

Cindy: 12:47

Or bad mouth, Or demean,

Kara: 12:49

All of the things, huh. And so. Oh, oh my gosh, there's that too, right? I'm just thinking of like diet culture and having to be so different than who you are and what you are and rejecting like your actual physical body and or hating

Cindy: 13:05

take up space,

Kara: 13:06

Don't take up space

Cindy: 13:07

take up space and, then think of what your body learns from that.

Kara: 13:13

Mm

Cindy: 13:13

And then we ingest all of these messages and then, I know I did, then to unravel that is tricky.

Kara: 13:23

it is tricky. I'm thinking of a time when I was young, so I like ginormous feet as a woman. I have like, I'm a, I'm a big footed woman for anybody wondering a size 12, which is a big footed woman, right? Sometimes 13 in running shoes. And so naturally when I was a young woman, I'm trying to figure out like how I fit in. I'm like, this is not working. Like, how can I be like, I'm big, I'm big cause I'm tall too. And I'll never forget. The shoe person at Nordstrom really just said, you know what, you got to own it. Like he just like, so simply was like, I don't remember the words, but it was just very clear. be who you are. obvIously I'm still remembering this. It really impacted me and I still remember it to this day. So sensation, sensuality, okay. Now let's move to pleasure. And I actually wanted to see if you could define what pleasure is.

Cindy: 14:18

I'm not sure anyone's asked me that. I thought we were going to, if we go, back to some practical ideas around sensuality, let's do that at some point,

Kara: 14:28

Sure. Yes. Let's. Yeah. Mm

Cindy: 14:30

but pleasure. When I think of pleasure, I think of what lights you up inside. What delights you. I use the word delight a lot. I, I think if people really do associate pleasure with sex, in fact,

Kara: 14:49

Mm hmm.

Cindy: 14:49

People who will inquire to interview me, not you, but other people have said, it feels weird even writing pleasure advocate on here or the word pleasure. Why is that? Why is that?

Kara: 15:03

Yeah.

Cindy: 15:04

Because we have just associated it. somehow only in a sexual context, which is wonderful and beautiful, but there's, so much pleasure outside of that. Our brain is wired for pleasure. So I think of it as what lights you up, what turns you on, what makes you wonder, what gets you curious. And all of that also relates with erotic energy. So it's really fascinating how they're all connected, but different.

Kara: 15:39

Okay. And now we got, we're going to jump right in. We're going to jump right into erotic energy because when we first talked about this like, I think I admitted to you like, Oh, now I'm uncomfortable. Now I'm like, Oh my gosh, what's happening? Where are we going with this? my mind was blown when you actually explained what erotic energy is. So I'm going to turn it over to you. Explain what erotic energy is and what you mean by that.

Cindy: 16:04

Erotic energy is what lights you up. See how these are connected. It's sort of where your body. Your mindfulness and your curiosity meet. This is Esther Perel because she is such a beautiful, Therapist, but also thought leader and especially around eroticism. She says creativity is where eroticism lives. So what creates a spark for you? iWhere is your creativity alive? I think when I started investigating my own creativity, that's where I really started to. sink into more eroticism. I always said I'm not a creative person. I felt like

Kara: 16:55

what about for the person who says I'm not

Cindy: 16:57

she got all the creativity, right? And then I did the artist's way. Have you read the book? And it's, it's,

Kara: 17:06

heard of it, but I have

Cindy: 17:07

it's almost like a whole thing. It's not just a book to read. It's writing and practices. And I got more in tune with my creativity and that really helped me See eroticism in a different way.

Kara: 17:22

And also probably to see who you are in a different way, as in you are a creative being.

Cindy: 17:28

Ding, ding, ding.

Kara: 17:29

So you've established that I think anybody has creativity inside them. I want to actually go back one more time to what you said about, so erotic energy is what lights you up and you talked about, I think you said something about connecting your mind, body, and curiosity. Did I get that right? Or how would, how did you say

Cindy: 17:47

It's your mind, body, and creativity.

Kara: 17:51

Creativity. Okay.

Cindy: 17:53

like what makes you spark up inside? What lights you up? And I do think with erotic energy, it is our whole self. That's why the

Kara: 18:04

Mm hmm.

Cindy: 18:05

our mind, our mindfulness, our presentness, and creativity.

Kara: 18:12

I keep kind of going to and being like, well, how did we end up here where the only, only thing I can associate the word erotic to is sex. Like I never have heard it in any other context. And so that's why, like I joked earlier, I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm getting uncomfortable now. Cause like my, worldview has it only that one way. And clearly that's not, it's not even what the word means.

Cindy: 18:39

I share an example with you?

Kara: 18:42

I would love it.

Cindy: 18:44

For me, there's something about sunrise and sunset. Also now I've added in moon, but do you ever like see a sunset or see the sunrise or the moon and your whole body just sort of. I don't know. I'm going to have to use my own context. So it's sort of like a melting, like a, like a melting tingling, both like a, ah, kind of sensation. And also, ah, this probably sounds strange, but for me, my whole body responds to that. because I'm, if I'm paying attention and if I'm letting myself delight in whatever I'm seeing for colors or the mood and all the creativity of what it looks like and my whole body responds and my mind says, let's sit in this and just let's savor this. It's something like that.

Kara: 19:42

Okay. That makes so much sense. And now what's coming up for me is recognizing I can relate so much to the experience of feeling something tingle in your whole body. And actually oftentimes when I'm in conversation like this, somebody will say something and it just, I get that zing of energy where I just connect so deeply to what's being shared. And that's an experience that, I wasn't having 10 years ago cause I was so disconnected from my body and yay. We can, we can all come so far and grow and there's so much opportunity. But also what's coming up in my mind is recognizing that. I think we have to be in a safe enough place to be having that experience. Like I'm thinking of the experience watching the sunrise or sunset and thinking that you have to be present to that moment, right? Really. And I'm just picturing you like letting it in being a hundred percent there, which I think is lovely. And for many, of the moms living this lifestyle, there are many moments that are survival that are not, immediately accessible to feeling safe. So I'd be curious as I, I mean, we don't necessarily need to talk about like regulating the nervous system to feel safe. Like that's a different conversation, but I'd be curious how you would educate a woman on both having this opportunity and also acknowledging the realities in her life.

Cindy: 21:12

And I think of your community and, you know, my, my heart sort of, starts to get mushy because it's a difficult role to play, how you all have to navigate your life and your child's and their care and the rest of your family and your just, and, and, and, and it's, it's big. It's big and you are worth and you deserve to practice experiencing small moments of this connection with your body. connection with your mind, erotic energy and pleasure. And listen, friends, you know, it is a practice. This isn't just, you don't snap your fingers and all of a sudden, like it works for you. At least it didn't for me. And what I find is most people need a little, you know, guidance, encouragement, community around it, and also just some free moments to practice. and so my encouragement would be, where could you start?

Kara: 22:24

Mm

Cindy: 22:24

where is a safe place for you to start? Is it something with sensuality? Maybe. Do you pick one sense? Just one, like say you're going to pick smell and you're going to focus on that all day. You're going to pay attention to what smells good, to what smells not so good, but when something smells good, okay, say you walk by a rosemary plant in someone's yard and you just run your hand along the plant and you bring it to your nose and think, I like that smell. Where do I feel that in body? You know, when I smell something good like that, I can feel it, like, go all the way down to my toes, like, yum,

Kara: 23:11

Mm hmm. Okay, so I just want to, pause here, slow it down because I love the way that, well, you're slowing it down, right? So instead of just smelling it. And kind of moving on really paying attention to how that feels in your body when you enjoy that smell. So connecting the, experience in your body to the sensation that you're having or to the experience that you're having. and where, yes, thank you. Yeah, exactly. Right. And I'm going to put this in here because it was so profound to me when I learned it and I think it fits in this conversation it was not that many years ago, actually, that it, it hadn't occurred to me that feelings happen entirely in our body. Not in our brain, not in our head. And again, it sounds very simple to me now and obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me at a certain point. Like I really was like, Oh, that's how feelings work. It's actually vibrations in your body at any point up to your brain to cue it on information, right? It's all about communication. But it was like profound to me. So I love this slowing it down, smelling it. And then paying attention for that split second where you feel it, you feel it in your feet all the way through your body. And I like this particularly because you've pointed us to start small and who doesn't have a half of the second to just pay attention to that aspect of her being

Cindy: 24:41

And truly, it has to be intentional because our lives are so busy and packed and, there is so much swirling for people, especially in your community. And yet those small moments, they do add up, they are worth your time because your erotic energy is worth your time. deserve to be lit up inside. Maybe not every second of every day, right? But to feel that, I don't know. We just do not give ourselves permission.

Kara: 25:18

We do not. And we're going to talk more about worth and being worthy of pleasure, but I just can't help but think of all the women that I've gotten to talk to that come to me saying, I feel like I'm dying inside and then connecting it to this learned habit of not paying attention to our sensuality. And then connecting it to this, like, worthy of being alive inside. I do want to kind of stay here in a sensuality, like actual tangible. Cause you mentioned that it was like, yeah, let's go back there. So let's go all the way back up to, sensuality tangible ways that, this community can be intentional about experiencing or tapping into their existing sensuality.

Cindy: 26:08

do think the easiest way, because your sensuality is with your senses, is, to pay attention to your senses. So, I said, something you smell, maybe smell isn't your thing. Maybe it's what you see. Maybe it's what you touch. Let's just start there because we have to have a practical place to, practice, so to speak. And then think about allowing yourself, giving yourself permission for the extra moment. So just like you were saying, maybe you're cooking and you're getting lemon zest, you know? Do you just taste the lemon a little bit? Do you smell it? Do you, you know, does it get in a cut on your finger and burn? Do you feel it? It's attention with intention.

Kara: 26:55

that again. Attention With intention. Yes. Yes. Okay. Beautiful.

Cindy: 26:59

And I, don't want to overwhelm people because the beginning you think, well, I just, it's like one more thing, you know, it's, this is not a chore. This is a practice for you for more thriving, for more light in your life.

Kara: 27:19

and I almost relate to it as like, this is not the most sexy, analogy, but I'm going to use it. Cause I think it almost illustrates the point the best. things have been dormant in a lot of these women, right? Mm hmm. And we're so we're starting to wake them up and they're like, you know, kind of like they're in the picture I get is like a car or something that's stuck in the mud where you're like nudging it. You're like moving in. It's like not really moving at all. Like maybe a little bit, but you keep going. You keep pushing in. You get a little bit momentum. It starts to move. And then, you know, yeah, you're out of the mud. And I think it's similar to where you're The first time our ladies stop and smell some lemons, they may just be like, well, it smells good. And there might not be much more.

Cindy: 28:04

Hmm.

Kara: 28:05

But with that persistence, with the intention of paying Attention, that's where I think you learn the practice of actually being able to feel deeper and to be able to, have a higher connection to what's happening in your body.

Cindy: 28:19

to take it even down maybe a notch to is, what could you do in your body that feels connecting to yourself and pleasure? This is the other thing with women is, we don't want to give ourselves permission, you know, to feel good. Right. It's all about everyone else and what everybody else needs. And I know I'm, I'm raising my hand. Okay.

Kara: 28:47

Mm

Cindy: 28:47

But even like a small practice of massaging your own scalp, you know, or just like circling your own palm. Simple, but does this feel soothing to me? Where do I feel that? What sensation do I feel? You know, or if you feel anxiety in your body, I'm kind of going circling out bigger, but, it's that paying attention to when I feel stressed or I feel anxiety, can I put my hand, you know, over my chest, over my abdomen and say, okay, Cindy. Something's activating you. You are activated. What? is it? Can you tell? Where do you feel it? What is that? I mean, this is what I've learned to do. I never did it when I was younger. You know, I just powered through

Kara: 29:40

Yeah.

Cindy: 29:41

and learning to do that is, I mean, I can't believe what I've learned about myself and my body and how to live with her in more freedom.

Kara: 29:56

I can't help but notice how you talk about your body in the third person, and I love it tell me a little bit about your relationship with your body that has you speak of her that way.

Cindy: 30:06

I do speak of her as her and she. I used to starve her, exercise her, I mean, into submission. I didn't trust her

Kara: 30:19

hmm.

Cindy: 30:20

I saw her as an object rather than a subject. And I think when I finally turned that corner was seeing my body as a she and a her and talking to her with kindness and gentleness and listening to what she had to say. My life began to change. But boy, it was It's a bit of a do. It's a bit of a journey, certainly, and I'm still on it.

Kara: 30:52

Mm hmm.

Cindy: 30:53

And I would say sometimes I think it might be harder when you're younger and with your children and the needs in all your homes as you're listening. And I get that. I mean, I'm an empty nester. My daughters are all grown. I'm in a different place in my life, right? Where I have more space and time for some of this, certainly. But I just always have wondered if I had started sooner, if I had allowed myself to taste food, like, taste it. If I had allowed myself to ask my body, are you hungry? Are you tired? Do you hurt?

Kara: 31:34

Mm

Cindy: 31:34

How do I want to live my day today with that knowledge? You know, talk to me. If patients that I've worked with over time, I'll even bring it into another context, had listened to the whispers of their body, trying to tell them something was off or something was wrong or something hurt, or they had pain or instead of waiting for their bodies to scream at them. Scream. this is the way we function and operate. And yet, if we listen to the whispers and we're paying attention, we can sometimes avoid our body having to get to the screaming state.

Kara: 32:13

hmm. Mm

Cindy: 32:14

What do you think about that?

Kara: 32:16

Well, there's a question that. I ask a lot in my coaching practice, it's a very simple question, but it's not an easy question for most of us to answer. And it is, what do you need right now? And as you were just talking about this relationship you have with your body and how you were saying, like, are you tired right now? Are you hungry right now? Right. So really being able to listen to your body is essential. And actually, I'm going to say, listening to your whole being is essential to answer the question, what do you need right now? don't know if you feel this way, but even I struggle answering that question a lot of times, I think for a variety of reasons. One, we're so conditioned to like, even if we think of something that we think we need, we cancel it out. Cause we're like, yeah, it's not possible. So now I can't need it. Right. So we, we kind of filter before we even let an idea come to the, surface. But I also think sometimes, you know, we haven't practiced listening to our body to be able to answer the question of what do we need right now?

Cindy: 33:23

Mm-Hmm.

Kara: 33:25

But it's an essential question.

Cindy: 33:27

And not just a one time question. You said right now, this is key, is, even a daily practice of learning how to do this. If it's before you even get out of bed in the morning, what are you feeling? How are we doing? Let's take one breath before we get, or stand up by your bedside and take two deep breaths and say, how do you feel this morning? You know, what do you think you need based on that? Or as you go through your day Sometimes, you know, it takes finding where in a day works for you. To start this practice because truly it is a practice.

Kara: 34:10

You'll like the saying that I learned from a coach many years ago, and her saying was the answer to any how question is practice.

Cindy: 34:20

Hmm.

Kara: 34:22

And I don't think a lot of us really give practice credit for like what it is. Like practice is doing something you're not good at. in service of trying to get better at it. And many of us don't enjoy doing things we're not good at. And so a lot of times the first time we try something, we don't even experience a benefit from it. Like you know, self care has such a, stigma now because there's a lot of eye rolling in my community about self care because I think my theory is because we're so disconnected from. What we need and have true logistical challenges for getting what we need that it's like a immediate, like cast aside. But also like when we do have an opportunity to, slow down and to like try something, it doesn't have this immediate powerful impact. It's not life changing. And so we say, well, that didn't work anyway. And we never try it again. Oh, it makes me so

Cindy: 35:22

sad. That's a good word right there. Mm hmm. And this, I'll give you an example from my own self just to, to share vulnerably is like movement and dance. So I have learned at this age to let my body move more. But oh, it was so uncomfortable at the beginning for me. And, I went to a retreat and we did a dancing practice and, I didn't stay for the naked dancing, but I would, I will say that I do now do the naked dancing by myself in the mornings. There's something about, allowing ourselves to try something new like this, whether it's asking our body what she needs or paying attention to one of our senses or moving our bodies in a way to just to to get. help our nervous system and release what's happening and also tune into what we feel and experience ourselves in our body where we live. so don't freak out that I talked about naked dancing, but there's something about these practices and different things will work for different people. So you, you, have a wide variety of people in your community and somebody's listening and going, you're out of, this girl's a nutcase. I mean, there's no way I'm going to dance naked ever. Okay. And somebody else is going, I see Rosemary, I have Rosemary in my yard. I wouldn't even think of smelling it, you know, or the sunset doesn't do anything from, okay. So everything doesn't work for everybody. That's okay. Finding what works for you. For like what you said, what you need, what do you need,

Kara: 37:12

hmm.

Cindy: 37:14

opening yourself to figuring that out for yourself. That's where you start.

Kara: 37:22

Yeah. I don't know why mind went here, but, you know, you shared, you know, you're, you said you're turning 60, right? And, just that you're in this stage where I think it, it over here, it occurs like you're genuinely enjoying You, You, have gotten to know you, you love you, and like you have the rest of your life to look forward with you. And so I'm, I'm about to be 44 and I feel like I am enjoying growing up as I'm aging because I feel like I am getting to be more me. I'm getting to, figure out actually who I am. And even just the other day I, I was trying to figure out like why I don't like to talk to my husband about like the day in the night and kind of making, I was kind of like, Oh man, like, I don't know, there's probably something wrong with you. I don't know. Then I realized, Oh, no, I'm actually just tired. And it's the last thing I don't want to connect with somebody at that point in the day. I want to be by myself. And for me, it was just like nice. Oh, great. Now I know the end of the day. I like to be alone. And that was just like a nice little, it's a very little thing, right? But now I know myself a little bit more, at least at this stage in my life, that's what I want. So, we've jumped around a little bit, but we, you've mentioned this thing a couple times and I want to kind of, go back to it. And it's this idea of worthy of pleasure. I don't even know how to open the question here, the topic, because I feel like there's actually, I was actually just working with a one on one client this morning about worthiness and this concept of like inherent worthiness and recognizing it's kind of like the same thing as enoughness, right? Like there's nothing in my opinion we can do or say to be more worthy or more enough. We are, period. So I guess where do you start when you're, I want to say teaching, you know, a young woman about worthiness, worthiness of pleasure.

Cindy: 39:22

Hmm. That's a big question. Good question. I do also find this with so many women that I meet with that don't feel like pleasure is for them. So I'm in the sexual wellness space mostly. So it usually is coming in, in, in from there, but we can broaden that too.

Kara: 39:43

hmm.

Cindy: 39:44

I don't think many of us have been taught to, create space to receive.

Kara: 39:52

Yes. Mm hmm. I had that tingle. Remember the tingle? I talk about my whole body when I hear something a million percent because I think there's this, here's my take on it. I think receiving is actually quite vulnerable. Everybody feels like strong and powerful when you're giving, that's why we have a lot of over givers. And when we're asked to receive, she raised her hands for those of you not watching. yeah, when you, when you're in a receiving position, It's vulnerable

Cindy: 40:25

Mm hmm. Mm

Kara: 40:27

and amazing, incredible. And I, I actually have episodes on receiving, because especially in the world where, you know, we've gone through seasons of fundraising for our family because quite honestly, brain cancer is expensive apparently and all that comes with that. And so I have had to work through a lot of my own resistance to receive. and there's all these little, chapters of resistance. One of the ones I found really interesting is like that I could only receive when I had nothing left myself. when I actually looked at it and like I had this vision of me swimming alongside of a boat, a vessel of some type and only getting in when I was going to like go underneath water, whereas what I changed it to is like, no, I could actually get in the boat at any time. And that would be great. The people on the boat would be like, thank you for getting in the boat. Like we were suffering watching you swimming there alone and like, you know, in danger, but without examining and questioning these kind of default things. we go and live our lives, subconsciously thinking that we're not worthy of pleasure or avoiding the vulnerability of receiving. So anyhow, I kind of hijacked that cause I got a little excited there, but go back to kind of the experience of receiving and where you see women in particular get stuck.

Cindy: 41:52

You know, my platform is all about permission. So

Kara: 41:55

huh.

Cindy: 41:55

I think that's where I always come back to is I feel like many women have not learned how to give themselves permission, permission to receive, permission to be worthy of pleasure, permission for pleasure. Permission to long for things, permission to want, to desire. many women, I mean this, myself included, we were trained up to give.

Kara: 42:25

Mm

Cindy: 42:26

I mean, I don't know if you do Enneagram on this show, but like, I'm a two of the two y two twos. I'm like, you couldn't even get a stronger two, which is that, you know, the helper, right?

Kara: 42:38

I was going to say, if any of you have a friend who is just always helping you, she's probably a two. I have a couple twos in my life and it is just incredible

Cindy: 42:48

Oh dear. Well, the problem,

Kara: 42:50

not for them.

Cindy: 42:51

with that is, And even a lot of women will do these kinds of, of evaluations and think they're a helper, right? Because so many women are trained up to be givers, you know, to give and give and, I think because of that, that's a big piece to what we have to unravel in order to get to the place of recognizing our own wants, our own longings. Our own desires and our own permission for pleasure.

Kara: 43:30

Okay. I'm with you so far. Maybe not on the naked dancing part, but I'm with you so far on, yeah, I can see where I haven't been giving myself permission to be worthy, to receive, to long, to desire, where do I start? So where would you say, like with permission in, mind, where do we start to unravel?

Cindy: 43:53

think it takes sitting with ourselves. When you get any little moment of quiet, you mommas out there. and asking ourselves, like you said. What do I need? What do I long for? I mean, I ask women to sit down like you, and I'll say like, what do you desire? And they can't answer. So it's the same idea.

Kara: 44:18

Yeah.

Cindy: 44:19

Can you allow yourself to answer,

Kara: 44:23

hmm

Cindy: 44:24

to really actually give yourself a few moments to breathe, sit with yourself in your body. like be present with yourself and ask yourself these questions. What do I need? Like your question or for me, what do I desire? What do I long for? What do I want? And then what, like one step I could take towards allowing myself to go for those things, allow myself to speak up for what I need, allow myself to voice my needs and wants and desires out loud to myself first, and then to someone else in my life. And I'm even thinking, like, I'm a journaler, so like, I would probably write, try to write it all down, right? Or maybe you speak, maybe you draw it out, maybe you do a collage board, whatever helps you creatively kind of get your juices going. Give yourself a pathway, an avenue to do this. Sometimes it You know, I say sit with yourself and people look at me like, wow, that doesn't sound like, no, I don't want to. Maybe it's going for a walk. You know, when we walk and we're outside. our brain, we're able to, there's science behind this, but you're able to think and be in your body and process. Maybe it's better that way for you. That works really well for me. I get out and I just start walking. Maybe you can carve out 10 minutes by yourself to walk, where you can actually just. Let your brain think and let your body feel and see what comes up. I think, honestly, how often do we just sit with ourselves, even for a minute and see what comes up? Hmm. Hmm.

Kara: 46:22

Okay. So on the same thing, I want to go back to what you said. one of the questions you said, so of course, what do I need? That's one. But then the one after that, I think it's really critical. And the question was, can you allow yourself to answer? And I love that question because it implies several things. One I think it's like, you don't, what I want to say is like, you don't have to be right. Allowing yourself to answer might feel like it's kind of a guess. Because maybe you don't know exactly, you know, and maybe you're going to do that thing or learn something and it'll be like the thing, and maybe it's not. You go ask yourself a question again, because I think it goes back to what you also just said is to see what comes up. In my experience, they're not usually like, you know, like a plane with a sign in the sky saying like, this is what you need. Like it's not always completely obvious, actually like whispers. It's very subtle. And it's almost like, well, this is just the word coming in my head or just, it's just the vision. It's very subtle and you have to learn just to kind of let it be and to allow itself to amplify. Okay. And then there's a critical piece here. And I want to hear what you say about it. To trust, to trust that that thing that came up matters and is important. And like, you can listen to it. What would you say about that trust piece?

Cindy: 47:51

I think it's really big. And I think a lot of us don't trust ourselves. We don't trust our inner voice. We don't trust our body to talk to us. and it may be something we need to practice. It was for me, you know,

Kara: 48:07

Even as I'm doing this work, it's like, I don't know, like, Oh, what's going on here?

Cindy: 48:12

Yeah. There's also a sense too of, I don't want to say courage. I don't know what I'm thinking. I'm thinking bravery. I'm thinking like, I guess maybe it comes back to you're worthy. you know, you're worth it. You are worth listening to. You are worth your desires and what you want. It's worth it because you are, because you are worthy. Maybe I'm not making sense, but I feel this strongly. I wish I could articulate it a little bit better in the sense of you're worth spending the moments to listen to yourself.

Kara: 48:50

hmm.

Cindy: 48:52

Your wisdom is inside you.

Kara: 48:55

Yeah.

Cindy: 48:56

I really believe that. And I believe, you can understand and hear what's in there if you pause or walk or dance or whatever it is, to allow yourself to listen

Kara: 49:15

and this is something I wholeheartedly align with, and I think it's a good place to wrap up and just really emphasize the beauty of what you just said, or I, I find it to be really, simple and profound, but the wisdom is inside of you. Like I have a hundred percent confidence it is there. And I think what you and I are kind of imploring in this conversation is that this community pause and bring that attention

Cindy: 49:48

with intention.

Kara: 49:51

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being ahead of us on this journey and. sharing all of you with us and, your wisdom. And, as we wrap up, is there anything that's on your mind or on your heart to share?

Cindy: 50:13

I loved this conversation. I think it's an important one. I'm grateful to get to know your community a little bit and I can picture some of them in my mind's eye and it's a hard, it's a hard journey y'all are on. And, it's a lot. And you are. A lot. And I believe that you're worth it. I wish I could just each one and say, just if you're overwhelmed listening to this conversation, perhaps pick just one thing. You know, we don't have to do and be at all at once. It doesn't work that way. Perhaps just find one thing that you can pay attention to with intention and just do that one thing and see what you hear, see what you learn.

Kara: 51:07

That is something that I'm going to do and simplify, right? Because I am a person that was like, I'm going to do everything, all of it. so simplifying and allowing, allowing the one thing to be enough. And so thank you again for sharing yourself with my community and we'll see y'all on the next episode.