A Mother’s Love and Helping Others with Loss, with Barbara Legere

Author Barbara Legere lost her 29 year old son Kevin to suicide in 2020. Kevin had been fighting a drug addition and his mental health for 13 years and Barbara did everything she knew how to do to help him recover and just love him. His life and the lessons Barbara learned from it inspired her to write a book called, Kevin's Choice, A Mother's Journey Through her Son's Mental Illness, Addiction and Suicide. Her hope is that the book will help other parents and teens who are suffering, shine a light on the warning signs (for those who think everything is fine), and prevent further loss. In 2021, there were over 100,000 lives that were taken from us who were just like Kevin. Her book and this interview are filled with tips and guidance for parents that might be dealing with similar issues. You can also learn more at www.barbaralegere.com/ and read about her latest book Talk to Me I'm Grieving: Supportive Ways to Help Someone Through Grief.  Barbara would have done anything to save her son and his choice will never be easy to accept. But she often feels his presence, love and encouragement and that fuels Barbara to keep sharing, writing and speaking about ways she can help. She also lost another dear soul in her life named Anthony to a drug overdose and he also is part of her drive to be a source of strength and wisdom for anyone who will listen. Tune in for her candid interview with Matt. You listen to the audio version or view the interview on youtube. 

Transcript

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Well, hello with gratitude Matt listeners, my name is Matt Moran and I'm the host for the With Gratitude Matt Show. Our goal with the show is to inspire our listening audience to practice gratitude regardless of how powerful their storm is. I've learned that the practice of gratitude works much like a muscle. The more you use it, the stronger it becomes. I'm so grateful to have today's guest on. Today's guest is Barbara Lazear. Barbara recently wrote a book. The name of the book is Kevin's Choice A Mother's Journey Through her Son's Mental Illness, Addiction and Suicide. You will hear from Barbara today. Share with you the loving and learning that she did through the loss of her son, Kevin, as a single mother to her son, Kevin. She journeyed alongside him through his addiction and mental health issues. Ultimately, his suicide letter to begin writing the book that I just mentioned, Kevin's choice, drug addiction and drug overdose is absolutely an epidemic. In fact, in 2021, we lost over 100,000 lives to this. And I'm so grateful to have Barbara on today's show. And I know that she's going to give parents that might be dealing with exactly this tips and helpful hints to resolve the issues that they're dealing with at home. Barbara, I'm so honored to have you on today's show and so inspired that you are sharing this with others so that they can hopefully prevent a similar situation happening to that which happened to your own son. Kevin, thank you for being on today's show. Thank you so much for asking me to be here. Matt I really am. I'm glad I'm here. Well, listen, you know, we'll talk about what happened or what transpired in 2020, but I'd love to hear a little bit about your son, Kevin, in what life was like, say, for the first 15, 16 years of his life. The first 15, 16 years were. Kevin was a happy child. I mean, for the most part, he was a happy child. Yet he also showed signs very early that he had depression. It would come up and then it would go away. But it became fairly serious at an early age, and I recognized it. But it wasn't until his teacher actually mentioned something to me that I realized it was something I needed to take care of to look into. But Kevin, everyone loved Kevin. Kevin had no trouble making friends, but Kevin did not have a high self-esteem. And that was something from very early on that he struggled with and he always wanted to fit in and he never felt good enough. And yet he was surrounded by love, unconditional love from myself, my sister and my mom. And he was a very you know, he was a unique, fun little boy. And his team, he did start being getting bullied when he was in sixth grade. And that was really hard on him. But he grew up and he was being bullied because he was chubby. And in that year, he grew almost six inches between sixth and seventh grade. And when he came back to school, to a new school, everyone, you know, the bullying was gone. And he started to feel good about himself for the first time in a really long time. But it was fairly uneventful up until he started using drugs. How did you. Roughly what age did he start using drugs? And I guess how did you find out that he was using. He started experimenting like a lot of high school kids did when he was 15. He drank beer a few times, smoked pot a few times. But he had met some older kids that he really wanted to be friends with. And they had offered heroin to him at this time. He was 17 and he said yes the first time that they offered. And he shot up the first time, which is extremely unusual. It's most people start by smoking heroin. And the way I found out was he actually came to me one night and told me what was going on. My sister had gone to pick him up because he said, I can't drive. And she said, You need to tell your mom. And he did. He came to me. And being naive at the time, I, I thought, okay, we get him into treatment that'll fix him and everything will be fine. And I honestly thought that was what was going to happen. But it doesn't work that way, unfortunately. Y you know, I I've learned a little bit about your story and you talk about treatment. That was certainly not the last time that he was involved in treatment. Now, I think he was in and out quite a bit. And love to hear from your perspective what you found in treatment and how it worked, how it didn't work, and what can people expect if they have a child that may not be willing to go to treatment, but being is being told they have to go to treatment? He has I think most treatment centers are really good. There are a few problems with them and there are some that take advantage of people. But for the most part, you can find a good drug treatment center. The problem is if the person is not ready and willing to put the effort into recovery, it's not going to happen. And when they're young, if they're under 18, you can actually force them to go as their parent. I didn't do that. Kevin turned 18 soon after he started using. He was arrested and then he was offered a program through the court system because it was his first offense. And that's how we found treatment the first time. And as time went on, you know, he would have some time without using, then he would relapse. And it was just in and out of rehab. Jail then did good for a while and he just never found he never found the end for himself as far as recovery. But I do believe in recovery. And I think that if a child doesn't want to go, their parent needs to possibly even scare them into going. Today is so different, though, because of the change in from heroin to fentanyl, it's a lot different. And, you know, I think the problem today I know we're going to talk about fentanyl in a minute, but I think the problem today is that a child or a teenager that would never even consider using drugs recreationally like heroin, they will take a pill that is laced with fentanyl. So there's not even a chance to get them into recovery, because a lot of times they don't have an addiction. They have that one time of using and it's too late. While we're on that topic, I mean, I you know, I know I have a friend of mine in Cincinnati, Ohio, similar situation. She had a son doing well in school, well-liked athlete, took fentanyl one time, just tried it out. And he's not here today. And I am so sorry to hear that. And that is so common. I mean, I don't have the statistics off the top of my head, but people are dying from fentanyl far more than they ever did during the opiate crisis. Because the opiate crisis, you had to overdose on it. You had to be taking drugs and take too much. And then that would happen. But now you don't know you're taking it. And I guess I want parents to scare their children, to scare them to the point that they won't take a pill that wasn't prescribed to them because it's everywhere. Well, it's interesting because yeah, I know a little bit about recovery, just through close friends, family members, whatnot, that have, you know, been through a 12 step program. And you know, I hear many of them talk about you don't get sober until you hit rock bottom in. The problem with drug like Sentinel mean, you could be just a, you know, remarkable, upstanding human being, noble citizen and put something bad in your mouth, in your bottom is death. Yes. So what do we do as parents? And I mentioned on the front end, we've got 11 year old ten year old friend of mine's DEA agent, a long time. And and he said, you know, you you start young and younger than our kids. But I'd love to hear your perspective on when the right time is to start educating them on the risk associated with one bad choice. Oh, absolutely. Before that, I just want to throw in that someone addicted to opiates or heroin is often an upstanding citizen as well. And a lot of people were getting hooked on heroin after taking narcotics that were prescribed for pain, like in an accident or a sports injury. And it was just a complete epidemic of that. Kevin was on the other side of that. He was using the drug knowingly in want and he wanted to do it. But it just became that by pulling the rock bottom for a heroin addict is also death. You can't let someone go that far. You have to intervene. But your question, I think they have to, as parents have to start talking to their kids. And this is so sad that it has to be this way. But at your at your children's age, I would say between nine and 11, I'd start that talk. And there's so much information out there now that you can get off the Internet. There's so many good websites that you can print materials, and they will tell you how to speak to your children. I think they're doing a better job of advertising it on TV. And I've seen both billboards and things showing, you know, the results of fentanyl death. And it's it scares people because it should I mean, I think we need to scare them because it's such a reality. I can't even count how many moms I know that have lost their child this way. And from early ages on up to in their thirties and forties. Are you familiar with the Al-Anon program at all? I did go to Al-Anon for several years. So for those that aren't familiar with Al-Anon, that's my understanding, Barbara, is, you know, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's essentially for loved ones or close friends of addicts to essentially learn the best ways to manage that situation and no longer be a call it in. And, well, I don't lack a better word, an enabler. And I'd love to hear your perspective of Al-Anon. And was it helpful to you to help manage Kevin's lifestyle? That's a great question. And my answer is yes and no. I went for a couple of years. I went to parents only meeting, which I think if you are a parent, if there's a parent only meeting, try to find one, because in other meetings you'll be talking with spouses, girlfriends, boyfriends, and it's a little bit different. You know, the relationship will it's a lot different, the relationships. So at a parent focus group, you're talking just about the relationship between a parent and their child, no matter how old their child is that adults or children, they do teach you some really good skills on taking care of yourself and trying not to let the alcoholic or addict in your life take over your life. It was that that was the good part for me. In my particular group, there was a division. Some parents believed you needed to keep your child out of the house and just completely let go of them. And I did not believe in that. I, I they call it tough love. That was too tough for me. I know my son. I knew he needed support and he needed love and he needed encouragement. The few times I did try sending him out without supporting him in anyway were a nightmare. They were a nightmare. I got a call one day that he had been on life support and they didn't even know his name because someone left him for dead in an alley. And luckily a citizen walked by and called 911. But now it's just very scary. But yes, I think a lot of people get a lot out of Al-Anon and I think the 12 steps are amazing. I think a lot of people really changed their whole life and their perspective. I was just telling someone last night that people in recovery are so self-aware and they're so humble and grateful. I think that's one of the best things about it. I don't agree with everything that they say, but as far as, you know, recovery, like they don't believe in medically assisted treatment. And I think that it helps a lot of people, especially in a desperate situation where you've tried everything else. Absolutely. Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know a whole lot about Al-Anon, but I know it's out there. It's available to loved ones and family members. And I think, you know, if you've got an addict that's going through this, definitely lean into the resources that are available to you as a support giver. You know, so 2020 will move to that that situation. And what do you recall about the day that Kevin took his life? And just if you could share with our listening audience the grief period that you went through after Kevin's loss? Sure. Kevin had been preparing me or trying to prepare me for years that he was going to end his life. He was so depressed and hearing voices and he could not stop using drugs. The morning that it happened, I heard him crying in his room. He was 29 at the time, and I went in there and we had a familiar conversation and he ended by saying, Mom, I'll never be able to stop doing drugs. We hugged and talked a little bit more, and then I went downstairs and within 15 minutes I heard a gunshot coming from his bedroom and I knew my life had just changed forever. And yes, I went upstairs and saw him. And your life does changed forever. When you lose a child, it doesn't matter how you lose them. But I think there's stigma attached to suicide. So that made it difficult throughout the years. And I still do today hearing some pretty negative things about it. Like how selfish? I don't believe it's selfish in most situations. I mean, it may be and some, but generally speaking, it's not selfish. It's their last hope to get out of the pain that they are in. And fortunately for me, I already had a grief support group in place when Kevin passed away because I'd lost someone to overdose who was like a son to me a seven years before coming. So for seven years I'd been going to a support group for parents who have lost someone an overdose. And then they had left me when Carmen passed. Of course. And I think the number one thing that has saved me and helped me is being around other parents that understand exactly what I'm going through because no one else really gets it. They try, they're well-meaning, they want to, but a lot of people, when you're grieving so deeply and you're in pain every day and just going to the mailbox is like an ordeal. A lot of people shy away from you and disappear out of your life at that time. So it's very difficult. But this took place. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh, no. I was going to say I that's when I decided to write a book. I didn't really decide to write a book. The book decided I needed to write it. Well, that's that's a good transition because I was going to go there. I mean, that, you know, you're grieving. You lost the most important person thing to you in the entire world, your son. And then all of a sudden you transition into writing a book that is exceedingly public. Anybody can pick it up, like to pick it up. I am inspired and impressed that one of the goals of you writing this book is to help other people prevent them from having to go through the pain that you've had to go through. But really, okay. You mentioned that you were led to reading this book. Talk a little bit about what calling you heard to motivate you to do exactly that. Sure. Well, Kevin and I had talked about writing a book for years. He wanted to write a book about his recovery and give people hope since his ending did not occur like that. A few months after he died, I got the idea that I need. It was like a voice in my head that just kept saying, You need to write a book. I weighed the pros and cons. I thought about it and I kept saying No. Why would I do that? But I couldn't not write it. It was just so much a part of something I had to do. And I did write it to hopefully help others in several ways to help them see what it's what life is like for someone who struggles with addiction and it and mental illness to show them different ways of treatment, what to expect and a little bit about grief. I'm currently writing a book about grief called Talk to Me. I'm grieving. That will help people communicate with people that are grieving because it's so uncomfortable. No one wants to talk about it, and yet it's a part of all of our lives. And so I'm hoping it will help a little bit. But writing the book, I knew I was going to probably get judged, judged or criticized, but I didn't care. When you lose your only child, you don't really care about anything else anymore. The only thing I care about is helping other people and not, you know, not every mom's going to feel that we all are different and have a different way of coping. But for me, that had always been my way of coping. So it was worth it to put it all out there. And I have had much more positive response than negative, very little negative response. Although a few people have called me enabler or criticized the book, but most of most people have enjoyed it. Reminds me of a saying that my father often says it's when you compare, you're in despair and you know somebody else commenting on how you handle your particular situation, frankly, is none of their business. And I know that you were doing everything that you could to support and love your son. And, you know, with respect to the book writing itself, I know you specifically wrote it to help other people to share your stories and help other people. That being said, did you find that there was a healing component for yourself as you wrote that book? Yes, definitely. There was. And it was like seeing Kevin's life as a whole from beginning to end. And there was so much suffering at the end of his life. I felt like I was grieving him long before he actually passed away because he was so in such despair. So it did help me to get it all out, to share it with others. I mean, my favorite thing to do is talk about my son. So and a lot of parents feel that way when they lose someone. We want to talk about our children. People are a little afraid to bring it up, but that's the best topic we have. We would love to share memories and good memories and keep their name out there. But yes, it did help me heal. It did. Not only are you helping others better manage their particular situation with their children, I know you're saving lives. What does it mean to you as you think about or just even consider the thought about saving somebody else's son or daughter? What does that mean to you and what does it what does it do for you? That means everything to me, because I would not want anyone to go through this. It is the most difficult thing you can imagine. And to prevent someone from walking down that road or to help someone that does have deep depression and anxiety seek treatment to stop them from even going there means so much to me, but to stop them and from ending their life, that means the world to me. And, you know, I kind of feel like if I can do that, then the book is worth it. Everything I went through to write it is worth it. And that's what I do now. I personally get my satisfaction out of helping others. I've found a way to do that through a volunteering thing. And it's just that's that's all that really matters to me because I know there are so many broken hearts out there. There's so many addicts struggling, there's so many teenagers that want to experiment. And I think every single teenager needs to know that they're risking their life. When I was growing up, we experimented with everything, but we weren't risking our lives. None of my friends died. Nobody died back then unless it was a drunk driving accident. But today's world is awful. I mean, yes, I feel like we're losing a generation. I really do. When I see the numbers and the ages. It's incredible. It's just so horrible. It's over 100,000 deaths a year because of this. So it's only going up. Yes. We have to stop. Well, keep keep doing what you're doing because you are making a difference. You know, I, I talk a lot about those that listen to my show in the past. We talk about paying attention to how you're feeding your mind, your body and your soul. I'm a big believer that your soul lives on, your body might pass on. Just curious from your perspective, since 2022 today, that Kevin's physical body is no longer here. Have you seen any signs of him from a spirit perspective or, you know, Kevin's soul still living here today? And if so, I'd love to hear a little bit about that. Yes, absolutely. And I believe that, too. And when I was standing there, a lot of people say, how could you see that sight? It must be so traumatic. I'm glad I was there. I am glad I was there because I felt like his soul was exiting his earthly body. But it still existed. And I got to be there for his birth and for the moment that his soul was released. But I've gotten so many signs from him and so many quirky little things that happened and some really obvious things that happened. The main way I know he's still around me is that I can feel him sometimes. Like right now I'm feeling him telling me that he is proud of me, and sometimes I hear his voice as if like he was just walking past and said, Hey, Mom. And he'll just say it like, you know, I'll hear it as if he were still here. I think I heard from someone that people can send messages to you like an electronic way, like turning a light on or off. And I don't know what your thoughts are on that, but that's happened to me several times. One time the radio came on, played a song, and then it turned off without me touching it. And I was shocked and the song was knocking on Heaven's Door, which was even more shocking. Yeah, but that has happened. The TV will turn off and turn back on. I just. I feel that he's around. I talk to him all day and in some ways I love him even more because I look at his life and I see that I believe he is no longer suffering. I believe his life had a purpose, and I know that he's okay now. It's kind of like I know he's safe. He's finally safe, but he's still with me. It's still very difficult. But that does bring me comfort and I'm grateful for that. You know, I know you did. During his years of addiction, you were doing everything that you possibly could do to get him. Well, I'd have to imagine there are probably periods of, you know, you thinking about situations that maybe you thank God, what if I did this? What if I did that? How did you prevent yourself from blaming yourself for the choice that Kevin made? That's a really good question. And I had an extra blaming myself because he he used my firearm. So I had to figure out how do I forgive myself or I knew I would just be torn apart from the rest of my life. And emotionally it was very hard at first. So I what I did was I really thought about it logically and I had to get my heart in line with my mind and realize that there I did everything I could. I did absolutely everything I could. And I say this to other parents as well when they feel like, Oh, what should I should have done more. I should have done different. If you love your child and you do everything you know, possible, you did your best and there was nothing else you could do because we all make mistakes. And if you made that mistake in love, it's not really a mistake. It's it just didn't work. And love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I just have to be grateful that I had Kevin in my life. And I can't blame myself or I wouldn't be able to get out of bed in the morning. I think it's common that something definitely to a parent should never have to blame themselves. Absolutely. Absolutely. As I to sit here listening to you talk, I can't help but notice the artwork behind you. Could you share with our listening audience a little bit about the pictures that you have behind there? Sure. The first one with the blue background, that's a picture of Kevin. And the other one is a picture of Anthony, a young man that I lost to overdose priority lives in Kevin. And they were very close after and it's like the sun to me. They out of a friend, a mutual friend who kept in touch with me after Anthony passed. And then he just happened to be in prison. When Kevin passed, he asked me to send them a photograph of both of them. I didn't know why, but he there's a lot of really great artists in prison. They spend so much time craft with their craft. He had someone draw up or paint a portrait of them based on the photos I gave them and he sent them to me. So that's. Beautiful. Really. He's out now and he's doing excellent and I see him and his girlfriend often and he's like the closest connection I have to my boys because he knew them both. We can talk forever about stories and funny things that happened. Must be nice to have them. Yes. You know, as we wrap up, Barbara, I asked my guest a similar question. Your biggest hurdle that you've had in life is quite obvious. And I'm going to ask, so I'll ask it a little bit differently. If you think about the life that you had with with Kevin, the 29 years that you had in the call it, the 13 years that you dealt with him being an addict, is there anything along those 13 years that you can say that you're truly grateful for having Kevin in your life during that difficult time, or is there anything that you would have, you know, given up as a result of that particular situation? Or is it just that you I mean, you you touched on it earlier. You're grateful to just have Kevin, and I'd love your perspective on gratitude and the life that you had with Kevin and how they're intertwined, if at all. They're completely intertwined, and I am so grateful that I got to be Kevin's mom because I look at him and I see how hard he tried. I see his generosity, I see his loyalty, his love. I mean, he gave himself completely to other people. And the 13 years were a nightmare for me. But he and I grew so close in those years. He didn't hold back. He told me what he was going through, which gave me a deeper understanding for other people in addiction, which made me want to reach out even more. And I would have given anything. In fact, in my book, I said if I could have cut off a limb to save him, I wouldn't even have thought twice. I would have cut off a leg or an arm if that would have saved him out of what he was going through. Unfortunately, that doesn't work. But yes, I would have given anything to stop his suffering and and give him a chance at a future. Barbara, thanks so much for everything that you're doing to share your story, to help other people through the challenges that they might be facing with addiction, depression, mental illness. It is remarkable. Feel comforter that you're you're saving lives. Keep doing the work that you're doing. And I'm so grateful to get acquainted and to know your Kevin through your ministry. You know, I try to do three things each and every day. And first and foremost is find the courage to be grateful regardless of how powerful your storm is. Secondly, pay attention to those you're with because you'd be amazed at the gifts that are right in front of you. And if you're not present to those, you'll miss God's gifts that are right in front of you. And lastly, pay attention to how you're feeding your mind, your body and your soul. Today's guest was my new friend Barbara last year. Barbara, it's such an honor to have you on. Today's show of today's show inspired you in some way, shape or form. Share it with others, comment on it and subscribe to the With Gratitude. Matt Show until next time with gratitude. Matt Listeners, find the courage to be grateful. Godspeed, my friends.