Episode 224: Do You Need a Travel Advisor? Custom Trips and Money-Saving Tips with Vinal Desai Burbeck

Planning a vacation can be overwhelming. But working with a travel expert can make it much easier to create amazing trips tailored for you. Vinal Desai Burbeck, Travel Consultant and Founder of Wanderlark, dives into the changing world of travel planning and how travel advisors create personalized experiences to fit your interests and budget.

This episode also explores money strategies for affordable vacations - like tips on finding good deals and underrated, more cost-effective destinations.

Listen and Learn:

• Cost-saving advice for planning affordable vacations
• Tips on navigating travel after COVID-19
• Budget-friendly travel strategies for all seasons
• The benefits of getting professional guidance for meaningful trips

Resources:

• Check out Wanderlark 
• Follow Wanderlark on Facebook 
• Follow Wanderlark on Instagram 
• Follow Wanderlark on LinkedIn 

Links are being provided for information purposes only. The information herein is general and educational in nature and should not be considered legal or tax advice. Tax laws and regulations are complex and subject to change, which can materially impact investment results. Pearl Planning cannot guarantee that the information herein is accurate, complete, or timely. Pearl Planning makes no warranties with regard to such information or results obtained by its use and disclaims any liability arising out of your use of, or any tax position taken in reliance on, such information. Consult an attorney or tax professional regarding your specific situation. Please note, changes in tax laws or regulations may occur at any time and could substantially impact your situation. Pearl Planning financial advisors do not render advice on tax matters. You should discuss any tax matters with the appropriate professional.

Transcript

Melissa Joy: 0:01

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show. I talk to clients.

Melissa Joy: 0:31

Travel is often at the top of your list, whether it's for this year or over time. Going new places, seeing new things and experiencing the wonders of travel is always popular, and so today I want to make sure that we can talk about travel trends, how to save money and travel, and how to get some help when you just feel overwhelmed with the planning that is travel coordination. So I'm so excited to have our guest, vinal Desai-Berbeck. Vinal is the founder and chief experience officer Wonderlark Travel Experiences. Wonderlark is a boutique travel agency which is dedicated to helping curious travelers wonder the world with ease. At Wonderlark, Vinal uses a combination of expertise and extensive research and industry connections to create bespoke itineraries, unique travel style and tastes of her clients. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks, melissa. I'm excited to be here While we've been talking about this, I think, for at least half a year, trying to get this episode scheduled.

Melissa Joy: 1:38

I think it's perfect timing, because we are going to be releasing this episode into the world over the summer. I think that's when people are in the peak of their travel, but they're also thinking about what they want to do next, and perhaps they're thinking how do I do this better next time too, if you're me at least. So I think it's very timely, but give me an intro. What does it look like to be a travel concierge, a travel coordinator, nowadays? I'm familiar with travel agents from back in the day, but things have changed a lot over the years.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 2:09

Totally yes. So historically, people like me have been called travel agents and there was actually a very conscious movement to rebrand as travel advisors, and I think that's because we've moved away from the transactional quality of an agent to more of a consultative, collaborative approach to planning trips. And that's really how I run my business. I love to get to know my clients and really tailor the whole entire experience to them their families, their interests, their preferences, their priorities. The whole entire process is tailored and I think that is a differentiation from how travel agents used to be.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 2:52

So if anyone remembers, you know, walking into a AAA and getting I think they called it a trip tick, you would get this book of you know, maps and packages, and while there is nothing wrong with that and I still see the value in that what I do is much more custom and it's actually akin to what Melissa does her clients and I would say, those of us who are service providers we're providing a service, we're not just trying to sell you something, we are trying to really add value and enrich your life.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 3:25

So to me, that is a lot different than just selling a package, booking a cruise. What I do is much deeper and, frankly, like more important and special, Like I just feel like I get to know my clients so well throughout the process. I'm happy to say like the vast majority of my clients are return clients, so these are people that I've been working with since. For there's this one couple, I actually helped to plan their engagement, Then I plan their honeymoon, then I plan the anniversary trips and maybe I'll plan a baby moon. You know, and it's just, it's really fun to kind of grow with people and see them through their lives and their milestones, their celebrations.

Melissa Joy: 4:03

It's just very special their lives and their milestones, their celebrations. It's just very special. Well, that reminds me of the transition that's occurred in the world of investment and financial advice. So originally things were very transactional, where the product that you were selling was how you got compensated as an advisor. And over time the profession of financial planning has distinguished itself as being less transactional, more relational, and also then you understand better about how you're paying for experiences. So we could pivot to that part like how do the economics of travel, working with a professional for your travel experiences and consultations? How does that work nowadays?

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 4:42

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because the Professional Association for Travel Advisors, asta. They actually put out messaging saying like that we are similar to financial advisors where, instead of helping clients manage their assets, like their financial assets, we're helping them manage their time, which is another important, major asset Huge, it's's your personalities.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 5:14

Yes, exactly, and I think a lot of the people I work with are I hesitate to use the word rich, but cash rich, time poor. So maybe they have this disposable income but they don't have disposable time. If you ask any of us, especially those who are families, like working parents, we just don't have time. I mean, I myself I feel this right Like we spend our time doing just a wide variety, a laundry list of things during the day, and then anything like leisure often is the bottom of the list. So you know, I think that it is a service and it's one of those services that you could argue is not critical. Right Like you don't have to hire a travel advisor.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 5:53

But I would think about it in terms of other services, other things that you may outsource in your life. You know, like, for example, a personal trainer. Right Like you don't have to have one by any means. But I think if you invest in someone like a personal trainer right Like you don't have to have one by any means, but I think if you invest in someone like a personal trainer or a travel advisor, you would see those returns come through in different ways and hopefully to me, like the quality of your travels. I mean that should absolutely be a difference, right, like in terms of the whole experience from start to finish should be stress-free, enjoyable, and my hope is that you would see that value right, not only on your trip but leading up to it. Just the process in general is more seamless and less stressful.

Melissa Joy: 6:38

I think that's true. Before I knew you, I did do two high-end luxury road trips that were planned by a travel advisor, and it was during COVID, so there was extra complexity in terms of degree of difficulty of finding where you were able to stay, where you could eat and things like that. But also I was extremely busy with work and our family was busy homeschooling our children for you know, via Zoom and so it was extraordinary to have the experiences planned where we had this anticipation and also I knew, in a time where there just there was that true scarcity of time that we were able to plan. So I would have people cue into a sense of well-being. If you feel stress or diminished well-being when you're the one responsible for the itinerary and getting to the airport and things like that Certainly works the same. Do people pay you? Then Do you kind of put together hey, if I'm going to plan this trip, this is what it would cost, or is some of your compensation through the experiences that you book, or how does that all end?

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 7:50

up working? That is a great question. So I will preface this by saying that I run my business maybe slightly differently than more of a traditional travel agency, in that my focus is bespoke itineraries and they are pretty darn manual, which I love like, don't get me wrong, I geek out on it and it's super fun for me, but it is a very time intensive process. So because of that, I charge consultation fees, which really vary. Typically they start around 250 and they may go all the way up to a thousand, depending on a few factors, the main ones being the length of the trip, the complexity of the trip, any special requests that I may be taking into account, and so I'm looking at the trip basically as a project and I'm trying to understand the scope and, based on that, I am sending proposals and providing quotes for my services. So I don't know that that's the standard. In fact, I don't think it is. I think a lot of the other people who are doing this type of work will have more of a flat fee or a package-based approach, and I run my business a little bit differently. But personally I love this way of doing it because I feel like it allows me to be more client-centric and to really spend that time and tailor everything, versus just kind of copying and pasting itineraries and shuffling out the same kind of work. Every single itinerary I do is different, entirely made from scratch. That's why I charge those fees. But to answer your question, I mean I will be honest, like commissions are still a part of what we do.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 9:30

We as travel advisors can, and often do, get compensation from our suppliers, our partners.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 9:37

So a great example would be, like a big hotel brand like the Four Seasons, like I have a preferred partnership with them, which means it's kind of a win-win situation because I get compensation from them, yes, but then my clients also get additional benefits just by simply booking through me. So the standard, like preferred partnership, will often entail complimentary upgrade, if available at the time of check-in $100 food and beverage credit that can be used at the hotel or sometimes even the spa that you might be able to use it there as well. A lot of times my clients will get a little gift or, you know, bottle of wine, a note. It's really that level of service and that VIP treatment that is not really available to the general public Unless you have, maybe, if you have like some kind of status, then you may get that special treatment, but otherwise it's not really something that's offered to everyone. So just simply booking through a travel advisor. If they have these preferred partnerships, then they're able to, you know, take your travels to the next level.

Melissa Joy: 10:44

I love that and have experienced. You know the differences that you experience A. You know you're going to be taken care of because you're putting your name behind. You know the hotel that you're choosing and things like that. And, as you describe, also the you know your consulting fee. I think that what you're describing is you're going to get experiences that would be different than just like hopping on to TripAdvisor or Expedia to see about different things. Well, I'll pick up. Just you know like I think you're describing bespoke itineraries where you're not. It doesn't look exactly the same as what you would experience in Google or something like that.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 11:20

Yeah, absolutely, and again because of the personal nature of it, I'm really trying to cater towards people's interests and their needs. So, for example, if someone comes to me and tells me that they love art and they really want to visit the world's best museums, but they have two little kids in tow, you know that may be actually hard to do on your own shuffling kids around a huge museum. Well, guess what? I can hire a private guide who specializes in children and they can create a really wonderful day at the museum where they're taking you exactly where you want to go. They're helping you see the highlights, but they're making it far more entertaining and interesting to your little ones. And it's. You know that's something that you can't necessarily do on your own easily, but fortunately I have a huge network of private guides, local tour operators. You know these are people that they live, they breathe the destination and these are people who can really give you that special local experience which I think can be hard to come by if you're just showing up going down the typical tourist track.

Melissa Joy: 12:34

Well, let's talk a little bit about money, since this is Women's Money Wisdom. Tell me a little bit about how well, at least if you're me I love to keep the quality of travel high. I would love to stay the four seasons versus the holiday, and things like that. But how do you make sure that you're making good economic decisions as you focus on quality and very exceptional experiences?

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 12:59

This is a great time to be having this conversation going into summer, because I'm just going to use Europe as the framework here, because Americans love Europe. I mean, everyone loves Europe for good reason. There are so many places within Europe that are kind of iconic during the summer and everyone wants to go there. So I will pick on Italy. I love Italy. It's one of my absolute favorite destinations. I've been there multiple times and I've planned dozens of trips there. Love it, but would I say it's an affordable destination, not as much.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 13:33

You are less likely to find value in Italy than you are in a place, let's say Spain, which is not too far away. You could argue like offer some of the similar culture. You know that Mediterranean culture, but Spain tends to be a better value than Italy, and so I would just encourage people to think of you know, I know, when you're scrolling Instagram and you're seeing these gorgeous shots of the Amalfi Coast, I get it. I want to go there too, but if you choose to go there in the summer, you need to be prepared to pay for that, and you could, frankly, blow your entire budget on something like a hotel, which you know it's always hard, because I absolutely love hotels and I am all about luxury hotels, but at the same time, like you need to make sure that you have money to spend on more of the experiential stuff, right, like to go on a sunset cruise or do a wine tasting or have a beautiful sit down meal at one of the best restaurants you know. So I think it's a matter of you know.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 14:35

I think that you can make financially smart decisions very early on in the planning process, like again the destination and then the time of year. That will then impact the budgeting for your whole trip and hopefully, if you make good decisions you know, help your budget stretch further versus if you are to go like. I think spring break is another great one where an example where I've planned so many trips for this one week in March here in Michigan anyway, in Ann Arbor, it's usually the last week in March and the prices, especially after COVID, have been astronomical. So I just kind of caution. People like I get that your kids are home and you want to keep them busy. You want to go somewhere, but it is just so expensive to do so during that time of year, and so just to think about if you can strategize, if you don't mind pulling kids out of school at other times of year, just to you know. Make these decisions early on. That can then give you more money to spend once you're actually there in your destination.

Melissa Joy: 15:41

Well, I'm someone who went to London in January last year or this year and we did trade off that we were walking around in coats but also we didn't have to fight nearly as many crowds, so that to me I don't like to feel like kind of cooped in. I don't want to be behind, you know, a thousand other people trying to see the Mona Lisa on the wall of the Louvre. I am willing to kind of trade off and opt out of crowds, although I have a kid in high school. So I don't feel like that spring break week is quite that negotiable, because it's hard enough to keep up on the homework when he's attending classes. So you know there are trade-offs, but what are some of the seasons that would be not miserable but also like good options, if you're?

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 16:29

thinking about Europe. Yeah, so the term that we use in the industry is shoulder season, which is in between peak season and low season. So if you can find that sweet spot, which I will say is getting a little bit harder to find. So again, like going back to Europe, we found that the peak season has stretched. So back in the day, like again, like pre-COVID, I would say peak season was July, August. Now peak season is June, July, August, September. So it's a little bit harder to find any deals, you know, especially now.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 17:03

I guess the demand is so great and maybe the secret's out that you know, don't go in July, August, if you can help it, If you can go in September, it's wonderful, but I would say it's not as like, affordable as it used to be. I think that, frankly, as with many different industries, we're still seeing the effects of the pandemic and things are different. You know you could say it's a different world entirely. So the shoulder season, I think, is, you know, a little less reliable, but it's still true that there is a sweet spot in between high season and low season. In fact, I'll use an example. Just a couple of weeks ago, my family and I went to Costa Rica at the very beginning of what is their rainy season and guess what? We did not get a single drop of rain and it was amazing. Not very crowded, far more affordable and I just cannot say enough good things of. If you can go just right before or right after that peak season, it usually pays off in dividends.

Melissa Joy: 18:04

Well, I would love to hear from you a couple spots, both international as well as domestic, that you think are underrated or might be kind of up and coming that people might want to consider.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 18:15

Totally so, I think, for Americans going to Europe and I apologize, I keep talking about Europe because, like that's so much of my business, no apologies to me, I love Europe. And I apologize, I keep talking about Europe because, like that's so much of my business, no apologies to be I love Europe. So, yes, I love it too, so much to discover in Europe. But I think it's very interesting that Americans gravitate towards, like France, italy, in years, recent years, I'd add Greece, but for whatever reason, like years recent years, I'd add Greece, but for whatever reason. Like, I don't feel like Americans think of Portugal and Spain as much, but I love that part of Europe and, again, I think there is value there.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 18:50

So, like, if you go to a place like Madrid, right, like the four seasons in Madrid is gonna be a lot more affordable than the four seasons in Rome, like, don't get me wrong, it's still expensive, but if we're talking about value and just stretching of your dollars, you know, I think that you can do. You can have a luxury experience in Spain for less money that you would in a place like Italy. Let's say so I just love Spain. Like the culture really speaks to me, the food is so good. I mean, you can't go wrong with tapas, right? Like a lot of times they're free and they just arrive at your table.

Melissa Joy: 19:24

So for anyone who loves that vibrant culture and they love food and wine, I definitely recommend Spain and similarly Portugal which is, I know, so many people who have gone to Portugal and just rave about it, and also every person that goes raves about how economically friendly it is.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 19:41

Absolutely. So those are some places I would consider in Europe, and then just domestically, you brought up road trips. I love a road trip, I really do, and I think that I personally, like, fell even more in love with road trips during the pandemic, and I think the timing too, because I also had children two children during the course of the pandemic and I just think that a road trip is so much fun, so economical and logistically it makes a lot of sense. When you have children and you have so much crap, it's nice to have your vehicle, to have like some of the comforts of home and the gear that you need. So, you know, for those of us who live in the Midwest, I think it's vastly underrated. I mean, you can do everything from beach time. You know Lake Michigan. If you look at Lake Michigan you can't see the other side. It's like almost as good as going to the sea, to the East Coast, I would say so, just considering what things may be in your home state or your region that you know. I think this plays really well with the theme of money, right, because I think that a lot of people have these ideas that travel is expensive and you need a lot of money to travel and sure, like, travel can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 20:58

I think that you know, using Michigan as an example, you can have a really amazing trip in Michigan where you drive maybe to a couple different destinations and it does not have to break the bank, especially if it's during the warmer months where so much of the attractions are outdoors.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 21:17

A lot of them are free. You really don't have to spend a boatload of money on travel. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love a luxury five-star trip, but just even personally, like, not every trip I take is at that level and I think it's okay, like, if your finances don't allow, if you hire someone like me, you know we can brainstorm and talk about ways to have amazing travel experiences that are within your budget but that are still wonderful and will still give you those benefits. You know you mentioned a sense of wellbeing. It's such an amazing thing that you can do for yourself to travel, but also to plan travel. I think you also mentioned the topic of anticipation and how even simply leading up to a trip and looking forward to a trip can be very powerful and very it's just. It's so good for you in every way.

Melissa Joy: 22:09

Well, I sometimes talk to people who still need to be on a budget, but travel is really important to them and it you know there's several considerations. One would be you don't have to have the same budget every single year. So if you're planning the big trip and it's going to be for multiple people, let's say, or for the full family, I mean, those types of trips are going $15,000 to $20,000 if you're talking about adults, depending on how much airfare you're dealing with and things like that. But then you could plan smaller, less expensive travel in the meantime which may still feel meaningful and occupies your calendar and your thoughts, but doesn't have to be the same cost every time.

Melissa Joy: 22:46

The other thing I would tell people is whether you're talking to Vinal about what you really want to do or you're talking about your financial planner about what you'd like to be able to afford to do. Bringing up the conversation with a professional who's used to dealing with things, you know both of us are seeing from different perspectives how people plan things like travel. That opens a door to talk about the possibilities. So, especially if you have the time in advance, sometimes a vacation can really fully be paid for. If you did your airfare in November and then you prepaid for certain activities in March and then you actually get on the plane in May, so that you have time to either budget or, you know, really have a decent size budget for incidentals on the at the time of the trip because you've really prepaid.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 23:33

Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's maybe just thinking about things differently to where you know we're talking about luxury travel, because you know that is, frankly, a lot of the work that I do. But I will say that a lot of my clients and again, myself, we mix luxury in with other like, let's say, more reasonable costs, right? So, for example, just thinking about your priorities for the trip, if you're fairly fit, if you're not super tall, maybe you skimp on the airfare, right, maybe you go for the bare minimum on your flight. But then, when you get there, if you love hotels, if having a comfortable bed is very important to you, you spend a little bit more on the hotel. Or, let's say, you have these iconic experiences in your mind.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 24:22

One of my favorite ones that I love to book for clients is a champagne tasting cruise in Paris that takes you right past Eiffel Tower. If that's something you want to have, I mean, you Just need to prioritize, as with everything else in your life, right, and the way that you spend your money. Think about what aspects, what elements of the trip are most important to you. What experiences are, you know, those bucket list items that you really, really want to have, and budget and spend your money accordingly.

Melissa Joy: 24:53

That is so true and there are so many free things, whether you think about the parks that are attractions when you travel. I did a staycation last weekend. It wasn't a staycation but we did, like you know, basically tried to fill the weekend with some cultural activities and found three museums and kind of science centers on Belle Isle where for all three we each paid $5. So it was 20 bucks required admission. We made donations at the other places and then went to on University of Michigan's campus. When we were downtown Ann Arbor we went to the art museum, which is also, you know, just a suggested donation and no cost. So I think, like if you're somebody who loves travel, who feels like you can't afford it as much, either booking on to business travel and or making things closer to home that may be underappreciated, you know, a town or two over, putting those things on your list can be a really great way to get the experiences when you don't feel like you have the money.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 25:50

Yes, you are so right. Did you look at my notes, melissa? Because you're bringing up so many of the things that I thought about. Yes, day trips, staycations, regional trips, and then, yeah, absolutely, there are so many things that you can do on a budget. If you ever are in a pinch here, just Google free experiences in whatever city you're going to, and it might actually surprise you. I mean, you can find a lot of good stuff and oftentimes, if they're not free all the time, there may be times of day or days of the week or month that they are free, and so you know it's worth looking into stuff like that and, instead of making assumptions that, oh, I can't afford to go wherever, maybe you can, as just a matter of strategizing and, you know, looking for these things that are more budget friendly.

Melissa Joy: 26:41

Well, before we sign off, I want to make sure those people listening who really do need and by need it does not necessarily mean you are not capable of planning your own travel but the people that need further well-being or further circumstances, they need the help professional. For their well-being or for their circumstances, they need the help professional. I want us both to help you raise your hand by just going over some of the things that I think Like. First of all, you mentioned when we were getting ready for this. I have a potential client that said I spend hundreds of hours planning a trip.

Melissa Joy: 27:14

Now, I don't think the expectation would be, if we pay you $250 to $1,000, that you were going to spend hundreds of hours on this trip. That is probably not the goal. How many hours can Penal spend? But I would also say is that a good use of your time? Yes, it depends. It may be your hobby.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 27:35

I mean, I chuckled when I heard this, because I just don't think it's necessary. And I think because I do this all day, every day, or, you know, 40 hours a week, whatever, I know exactly where to go for answers. I and a lot of the answers, I just know and I don't have to look into them, right? So just think about the cost savings, the time savings, right? That if you yourself need to spend hundreds of hours planning a trip, someone like me may be able to do it all in a fraction of that time. So you know, it's a matter of I think that's where my experience and expertise does come into play.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 28:14

Where I don't know, I just feel like it is very easy to go down the rabbit hole of the Internet. You know, scroll Instagram't, know, I just feel like it is very easy to go down the rabbit hole of the internet. You know, scroll Instagram for hours, whatever. If you can do that that makes you happy, go for it, but I just don't think that's necessary and I think you can save a lot by hiring an expert.

Melissa Joy: 28:33

I definitely agree. And that's not for everyone it's the same. When it comes to financial planning, some people really pride themselves in self-implementing is what I would call it and for other people, they are told by others that that's what they need to do, but it is not enjoyable, they're missing opportunities, et cetera. And as I was listening to you talk about your experience and how that impacts how you're able to plan for people, I was like, well, that's just perfect for the money wisdom podcast, because that is what we're hiring you for. Right For your wisdom, for you to know when you need to research, know when you've seen it before, know like you know you can go to Stonehenge if you want. It's kind of a blah. Hopefully you're on your way to somewhere else, those types of things.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 29:14

So I just encourage people, even if you don't feel like your friends are doing it you may or may not know whether they're getting professional advice and do be open to it if you think it would improve your well-being, of course, if it's in the budget yeah, and I think I do want to just put a quick plug out there for those who feel like that analysis paralysis I think that's a very common issue nowadays when you're planning trips is you're getting so much stimulus, so much information, so many recommendations, and sometimes it can be really nice to have a person who is yeah, I'm getting all that too, but I am evaluating all of it and I'm whittling it down and I'm finding what's true, what's fact versus fiction and able to present.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 30:02

Then I can present my clients with what is actually true and helpful and necessary for you in your trip, right, and so it removes some of the noise and the clutter. And you know, again, the analysis paralysis people have when it just feels like there's so much and it can be really hard to make decisions just because there is so much out there.

Melissa Joy: 30:25

Well, how do people find you if they are interested in learning more?

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 30:29

Yeah, so my company name is hopefully super easy. It's the word Wander and then the word Lark mashed together super easy. It's the word wander and then the word lark mashed together wanderlark, and our website is simply wanderlarkcom. Or you can also Google my name. I guarantee there's no one else named Vinal de Cyberbeck out there. I'm the only one.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 30:49

So I'm hopefully easy to find and I always welcome to connect with people on LinkedIn or social media or, for those who are based in Ann Arbor, Just love to meet people in person as well. And you know if it hasn't been clear already like, travel is my passion and I just love sharing that passion with others and in really helping people. Travel is like is my way of contributing to society, because I feel like travel is so powerful and you know countless studies have shown that it really does have a positive impact on your health and your well-being. It can be stress relief, it's creative outlet and I really can't just discount the amount of happiness and joy that people feel leading up to travel. And then, obviously, when you're traveling and you're seeing the world, I mean I'm biased, but I don't think there's anything better. I love it.

Melissa Joy: 31:43

Well, as so many people are going to appreciate this episode. I just thank you and we will make sure to include links as suggested, including how to find Vinal, and thank you so much. Thanks for listening to the Women's.

Vinal Desai Burbeck: 31:58

Money Wisdom Podcast.

Melissa Joy: 32:14

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