Episode 226: Finding Financial Pearls & Jimmy C. Shoes

This episode, originally aired on "is that cashmere?" hosted by Becca Hoeft and Anna Kincannon, explores the connection between fashion choices and financial decisions, especially during the pandemic. 

Melissa Joy, CFP® joined Becca and Anna to discuss saving money, planning for the future, and teaching children about finance.

This lively conversation covers how money impacts relationships, the importance of diverse financial advice, and managing finances during major life events like divorce. 

Listen and Learn:

• How pandemic fashion relates to spending
• Ways to balance personal growth and financial growth
• How to manage finances during big life changes

 Resources:

• Listen to ‘is that cashmere?’ 
• Follow Becca Hoeft 
• Follow Anna Kincannon

Links are being provided for information purposes only. The information herein is general and educational in nature and should not be considered legal or tax advice. Tax laws and regulations are complex and subject to change, which can materially impact investment results. Pearl Planning cannot guarantee that the information herein is accurate, complete, or timely. Pearl Planning makes no warranties with regard to such information or results obtained by its use and disclaims any liability arising out of your use of, or any tax position taken in reliance on, such information. Consult an attorney or tax professional regarding your specific situation. Please note, changes in tax laws or regulations may occur at any time and could substantially impact your situation. Pearl Planning financial advisors do not render advice on tax matters. You should discuss any tax matters with the appropriate professional.

Transcript

Melissa Joy: 0:01

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show. Welcome to the podcast.

Melissa Joy: 0:31

Today, we're going to do something a little bit different. I got the chance to be a guest on the Is that Cashmere podcast, which is a new podcast that's hosted by a friend of mine, rebecca Haft, and her co-host is Anna Kincannon, and they are talking all about issues for especially women professionals, and I got the chance to tell them my story and what I do in terms of giving advice to people about money, so I thought it would be cool to replay this podcast episode. We'll have a link to their show in show notes, because I love their new show and hopefully you learn something new as I'm being interviewed instead of the interviewer. Enjoy the show. We're super glad you're here.

Becca Hoeft: 1:20

Let's talk about some cash. American professions, though, though that we got in because I wanted you to weigh in on some of what we got here, Melissa, so let me just pull it up here. So the first one received as a mom, I'm kind of laughing about this one, although I shouldn't so the first one received was from Joseph out of Athens, Georgia, and he said and this was it do less drugs. It wasn't don't do drugs, it was do less drugs.

Anna Kincannon: 1:55

This is our audience group, but sure.

Becca Hoeft: 2:00

I like it I like the honesty. Yeah, that's what it was. It really was, let's see. And so the other one we got was received from Janice, and this is why I thought it was so perfect that we have Melissa here. You know, financial planning guru. She said don't buy so many Jimmy Choo shoes.

Melissa Joy: 2:21

Oh, I want Jimmy Choo shoes.

Becca Hoeft: 2:23

I do too.

Anna Kincannon: 2:25

I can't afford them. Okay, Do you own one? I have a question. I do not, Do you? No, neither do I. I'm not a very big materialistic. Like I don't. I'm not into purses and I'm not into expensive shoes.

Melissa Joy: 2:41

I also don't like to wear shoes that are uncomfortable and I feel like if you invested in some Jimmy Choo shoes, you might need to have some like elevation going on in those shoes.

Becca Hoeft: 2:50

I think you're right and I think, knowing my luck, because this has happened, if you know me, that I fall a lot and it's not because of any reason other than I'm uncoordinated. So running into walls and falling is pretty much how I roll. So I prefer, like the really comfy sorrels you know that I can walk around in and I feel like it's like safety shoes.

Melissa Joy: 3:15

There's no vanity in the shoes that I buy. I have a couple pairs that I haven't worn. That would be cute if I had the occasion, but it's not happening much nowadays.

Anna Kincannon: 3:24

I feel like since COVID, I haven't I maybe wore heels less than 10 times Like I. Just I'm. I'm into flats now. This is it, and I don't think I can go back. I'm done.

Becca Hoeft: 3:36

Well you know I'm not looking for a man. I'm married to a wonderful guy. Like I don't need to, I know I don't need to bring it out let's put it that way you know.

Anna Kincannon: 3:47

But there's always the case, Becca, you and I will blow up, make lots of money. Then we can just go buy ourselves some GQs. I'm not against it, let's put it that way.

Becca Hoeft: 3:56

We're going to invite Melissa to join us. She's going to teach us today how to plan for the future and retirement us today, how to plan for the future and retirement. Is that what we're going to talk about? Okay, well, some, some, yes, I love it. Yay.

Melissa Joy: 4:12

I do love my job, so you know, please, let's you know let's go.

Anna Kincannon: 4:21

You know, melissa, our podcast is all about kind of career advice, right? So I want to know, I want to go to the beginning. I want to know, I want to go to the beginning. I want to know your journey to wealth management oh my gosh, my journey is so.

Melissa Joy: 4:30

It's the journey of serendipity, because I basically didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up. I answered a want ad for an assistant at a financial planning firm and basically I knew I was pretty good at office jobs and had worked at a mortgage company that my dad happened to be running. So use nepotism to get some summer job hours or nepotism or just was told you will be working Monday through Friday, spring break and holidays and summers, so I knew I could work in offices, got a job. I applied at law firms, a financial planner's office and got the job with a financial planner and really just thought I was, like you know, kind of twiddling my thumbs until I figured out what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. But I guess, through lack of initiative at that point in my life, my early twenties, but I guess through lack of initiative at that point in my life, my early 20s, ended up sticking around long enough for other people to and learned a ton and really spent the first 15 years of my career just working on investments, doing investment research, helping call clients and tell them what to buy or sell at the instruction of somebody else and then eventually I built out an investment department at that firm. We grew and were around a billion dollars and then I kind of climbed that mountain and felt like the job felt kind of samey. That would have been similar timing to when I knew you, becca, and started to be a financial planner, which most people are like.

Melissa Joy: 6:19

No, you said you were doing investments, melissa. Like the same deal, right, but it actually is different. It's. It's includes investing, but it includes a lot of you and not just accounts and statements and stuff like that. So there's more to it, of course. There's more to your retirement than your investment accounts or your retirement accounts. So that's what I do today. It was a very happy circumstance, but I cannot imagine doing anything else. I love what I do. I do a lot of it. So you know it's a lot of hours my week, but it's. It never gets old, I don't. I don't feel like certainly there are difficult days, but I found the right career for myself, or the universe did for me.

Becca Hoeft: 7:01

How did you come up with the name Pearl Planning?

Melissa Joy: 7:05

or the universe did for me. How did you come up with the name Pearl Planning? So Pearl is an irritation that turns into something beautiful. It's also my grandmother's middle name and my daughter's middle name and when I left my former company where I was a partner, it was not like something I'd mapped out like, hey, I'm going to start a company after I get to this point.

Melissa Joy: 7:23

It was, you know, really just me and my partners weren't on the same page and I was the person kind of on the outside looking in, and so it was an irritation for me. It was kind of like an unexpected. I mean, we all have those career phases. Some of the most successful people I know had moments, crossroads, where you know you did not expect to be, either have that pink slip or confrontation, or just find yourself in a dissatisfied factory position and that's, you know, kind of was my summer of a reckoning and a turning point, and so I started the company out of that and that really to me, like no grit, no pearl, which we have in our kind of tagline, is where I was at and where a lot of people are when they reach out about a financial plan.

Becca Hoeft: 8:12

I love that you know I have to ask you a question because and I actually wrote out this question because I'm like, oh, I got to be careful not to say the person's name, but I think it's a really important question to ask because too many people that I know are in this situation. So I have a divorced girlfriend, okay, who's just struggles financially. She's never, never, been a saver. On top of it, she thought she was going to live off her ex's pension and for a while it turns out she's going to get less than $300 a month. And I'm like, sweetheart I know, sweetheart, you got to figure it out and she's 50. So what can she do at this late stage to help herself?

Melissa Joy: 8:59

Is she divorced yet? Yes, she is Okay. Well, the first thing is to just, you know, face reality with someone who's caring and empathetic and kind, because it's so easy to beat yourself up and it can be so intimidating to just sit there with all of your anxiety and worries and just be like, oh my God, what am I going to do? You know we suffer silently when it comes to money in so many cases. I know that because I see people who are rock stars at money and people have no clue and they all feel that, you know, kind of insecurity, imposter syndrome, and money is like a thing for all of us. I think it's just closer to the surface for women, so getting help, even if she can't afford it. There's great organizations, like there's an organization called Savvy Ladies, that is, certified financial planners that are donating their time to assist people Savvyladiesorg, founded by a really great certified financial planner who was looking to help people like her grandmother who suffered from domestic violence.

Melissa Joy: 10:03

But then you just got to put one foot in front of the other. You had an idea of what your life would be like and it's different. Okay, there's some emotions. There's some, you know, processing A financial planner is not a psychologist, but they might be adjacent if done right. And then we look at you know what is the reality and flexibility and resilience are what you're you know. I'm hoping that she'll be able to bring to the table of like. Okay, we can't picturing what your future will be. Is not like a one week like project. It's over time, being flexible, being open to you know, working, looking at different options. And fortunately in my work it's not transactional, it's not a moment in time, it's relational, it's over time. So if you work with the right person, they can really help you get used to the new reality.

Becca Hoeft: 10:52

And is SavvyLadiesorg. Are they national?

Melissa Joy: 10:55

then they are national. They're located in New York City in terms of their hub, but they're a network of women. You guys talk about networks a lot. They're a network of women. You guys talk about networks a lot. They're a network of women around the country, and so anybody could go in and ask for some time and they would get a one-on-one hour with a financial planner with follow-up, so it's a really great resource. That is amazing.

Anna Kincannon: 11:22

That is awesome, yeah.

Becca Hoeft: 11:34

So, melissa, I was doing some homework before today and, you know, came across your podcast. That is amazing, a lot more.

Melissa Joy: 11:41

Well, I have to tell you I did have a co-host for most of those episodes and she did a lot of the production and a lot of the recording. She's since found a perfect fit for her at another company as a financial advisor. So I'm carrying the whole backpack today, but I am so exhilarated by our guest list. We're recording such interesting episodes. You know people may be like hey, are you going to run out of topics? And I'm like no, I'm like ready to record on straight through. So I know for you guys, because you're so creative and you have so many ideas and I've loved hearing your initial conversations that it's really going to be continue to be fun. There is just no limit to these types of conversations and you know, anybody who wants to listen in. I'll give a little plug for women's money wisdom.

Becca Hoeft: 12:33

Yes.

Anna Kincannon: 12:34

So I'm going to ask you a question. So, going back, you have 215 episodes. What has been your favorite episode to record? And then what has been the most popular right and to me probably popular? Then what has been the most popular right and to me probably popular is also what's the common challenge right? What did people seek your help?

Melissa Joy: 12:53

Okay, so a bunch of people in South America listened to this episode about residents. I think it was like the algorithm took over about doctors who are medical residents that are and it was with a great guest. Doesn't that work? But I have no idea what happened, so I think that's kind of a fluke. You know, I just pulled up an episode on first generation wealth.

Melissa Joy: 13:17

I think providing access and inclusion is something that isn't the primary focus of our podcast, but thinking about people of color access to money when it comes to communities that have less financial education, which, in aggregate, is also women. If you think about our experiences, women just didn't make money decisions, couldn't even have credit cards more than 50 years ago. Some of those episodes are my favorite. I mentioned that episode with an awesome financial planner named Valerie Rivera I know you're from Chicago, becca, and she's doing great work primarily with Latina first-generation people of wealth, and so I would recommend that episode as a listen. Yeah, there have been a lot of fun episodes, you know. Another real popular one, though, was with my former co-host. She took the semaglutin weight loss drugs and she talked about her experience and the money with it, and that was extremely popular as well. Yeah, amazing.

Becca Hoeft: 14:23

So what I love.

Becca Hoeft: 14:24

I'm sorry, ana, I'm gonna just come in here because you're singing my song, because you know that I've spent a large part of my career trying to close the financial equity gap and I just have a real passion around that and I think generational wealth is.

Becca Hoeft: 14:40

I mean, you're right, like I feel like as a Caucasian female, there's more conversations about generational wealth because it goes back generations. Right, it goes back three, four, five, six generations. But then you have families who either are people of color or immigrants or whatever the case is, they don't have that access to credit. Maybe they have a thin credit file, they don't have a credit score yet, you know if they're new to the United States. So, like not that I want you to repeat that episode, but I'd love to hear, like, any advice you have for someone who's just coming into this and this, frankly, can apply to the person who's just getting out of school and trying to build their credit score for the first time Like, what advice do you have for those people who are just starting out and trying to build their credit and trying to build that generational wealth?

Melissa Joy: 15:44

Well, if you think about it, I want to ask you guys something Do we like in our more privileged communities? Call it generational wealth? I don't even think we use that word. We just, you know, kind of talk about like I have an expectation of the way my myself and my kids will live. We're going to maintain the same standard of living. I hear more generational wealth when I listen to people like Valerie, who I know, some other black women financial planners who are talking about generational women and black male financial planners because they see what they don't have See.

Anna Kincannon: 16:21

I always, I always tell my kids and you know, part of me is that we're, you know we're building a business on the side. So, and I expect our kids to chip in and help and if it's faint and I'm like this, you're building a generational wealth. That's my message.

Becca Hoeft: 16:34

I love it.

Anna Kincannon: 16:35

Every time they complain. I'm like this is your generational wealth, this is going to be yours, but you need to. You know, kind of like your dad made you work at the office.

Melissa Joy: 16:45

Yeah, I. So I just don't know that we use that language in the same way, even though we are, like it's implied. And so what I would suggest is and you know the other thing, becca is like those communities, there's a lot of insurance salespeople. There aren't a lot of financial advisors. There's not like the bros at the clubs that are, you know, like you know, kind of talking that talk, and so there's just less access.

Melissa Joy: 17:14

So, first of all, we need to, when we're thinking about careers, we need more people that are doing the work, who have different experiences and different backgrounds. Desperately, when it comes to personal finance, we just are kind of an old boys club and even, you know, many of the women are white and came from positions of privilege, even if they didn't have the financial background. So we desperately need more minority representation in our field. But if you're the person who's trying to get a leg up, do take advantage of the education in your employment networks, the benefits, do the enrollment into your 401k, and then start to read, start to understand and listen and have conversations with your like-minded, interested peers and seek out those who are like you, who are, you know, kind of positions and beacons of financial literacy. They're out there, it's just unfortunately less so than in some other professions.

Anna Kincannon: 18:19

Yeah, I think people are intimidated, but what? By what they don't know.

Melissa Joy: 18:24

Totally. You don't even know what to ask. You don't feel like you. You feel like everybody else has it figured out, when they really don't.

Anna Kincannon: 18:29

That's what I know, right, and I think some people have fear of money right, and many people do. Right, because money is control and you know, becca and I have been working in financial institution for decades and I was fortunate to be on the treasury side and kind of my mentality of money is just numbers right, because every single bank there's actually no cash on hand. Right, it's just numbers moving on the screen and money making money. That's what money is right, just having cash in your bank account. I mean, it's great for emergencies and all that stuff. That's not what I'm saying. But again, how do you take your money and you make the money and you work the money? But a lot of people don't have that perception or understanding or just a simple fear.

Melissa Joy: 19:25

Yeah, and banking has more access. Right, Everybody needs a bank account, or most people do. After you get to, you know if you're new to this country or have less access. It just has more coverage and I feel like there's more people of color in banking than there is in personal finance. And so, you know, do take advantage of banking programs, because there's more personal finance programs at great financial institutions, like you guys both know where there is some you know kind of financial apps and things like that that are starting to kind of perk up that are helpful and then do. I would say the first thing is like participate in your company retirement plan, Cause many of your listeners are going to be W-2 employees and if you don't ask your accountant how you can start a retirement plan if you're working for yourself, so that's a great first step.

Anna Kincannon: 20:20

Yeah, I actually have a question for you and maybe a feedback. I have a friend that's, um, is going through a divorce, right, and it's. It's not a pleasant experience. But I think what we as females don't think about is, you know, I think, having a wealth management individual or financial planner that can help you along the way. Um, when you're happy and you're married and you're together, but in the same time having the conversation while you're still, and you're married and you're together but in the same time having the conversation while you're still happy, right. But then by the time, I kind of think what, if, what, if it ever gets to the point that we have to go different ways? I think a lot of people don't think about it. Where to me, finances, yes, you're together, but then there's also an aspect of individuality that needs to come into play.

Melissa Joy: 21:08

The right financial planner has to honor both people in the room and one of the biggest challenges not to pick on guys, but of or what well I can flip it around One of the advantages of being a woman in financial planning is people come to me and say we had somebody, but he never looked at my wife when she came to the meetings, and sometimes it's a lot of times it's the guy that, like, reaches out first.

Melissa Joy: 21:32

Um, so you need, like, equal space in the room. I do not want to use your friend as an example, anna, but like if you can have a better relationship with money, then your, your marriage is likely to be in a better place, because one of the major contributors to marital strife and, you know, conflict and divorce comes down to money, whether it's financial infidelity, discomfort, mistakes a partner makes or feeling shut out of the room and a power imbalance and we've done some episodes on communication, power imbalance, things like that. Good financial planning would help you, whether you're married or divorced, because it is helping to give a foundation of safety for whatever comes down the road.

Anna Kincannon: 22:19

Yeah, and again going back to my friend is right. What happened is you know you do all this savings and now you're look at this okay, you're 50 years old and now you're divorced and you just gave your half of your 401k away, right?

Melissa Joy: 22:34

oh, and it hurts more to lose that half than it does to gain 50. Right, like it is so painful. Personally, um, I am a certified divorce financial analyst too. It's not all the only work that I do, but, gosh, go to the CDFA website and find if you're going through a divorce. Don't just go it alone with an attorney if it's more complicated when it comes to money, because the attorney is good at dividing things up and their job is done and a certified divorce financial analyst can advocate for your future self in terms of how you divide the money and how you're prepared to deal with that.

Becca Hoeft: 23:14

And one thing too is I really think it's important, as a couple, you have to decide what your roles are Because, frankly, for example, my husband and I Tim, he's not a saver, he's not a planner so I know I'm the money focused, I'm, you know, putting our investments in different places, I'm controlling, you know, decreasing our taxable income, all of that At the same time. We have separate accounts and I think I mean it makes complete sense for us, because then he has his money and he has his budget and he plans it, but then I have the family budget and I'm, you know, working that and trying to increase our savings.

Melissa Joy: 23:55

I think that works. There is no set template where the financial professional says this is how it's going to be. You know, in my family's case we have separate accounts too. Both of our names are on all of the accounts we were. We didn't have a lot of money when we got, you know, married and we've been fortunate to kind of work it out over time to have more of a you know kind of net worth.

Melissa Joy: 24:20

But you know there's not a lot of like hey, can I spend this or that? In some families it's totally a family conversation and that's what they want and that's great too. The only thing that I really struggle with is when people aren't able to think of their money collectively when it comes to, for example, retirement or big goals, housing and things like that. That's really tough for me as a financial planner, because if there's not a point in time where it can kind of be bridged, while there's still acknowledgement that you each have your own money, gosh, it's really hard for me to you know, like both of your, both of your expenses are fit into the equation. And if it's completely like there's not a bridge between the money, then I struggle in those engagements and and you know, frankly, should should probably send them to somebody else, because it just isn't a great fit for me.

Becca Hoeft: 25:10

Yeah, and, frankly, you're right that there has to be a bridge. You know, when you have that kind of divide and it's not a complete divide, right but it's like who's better at doing this than the other person, so let's take advantage of it. But also, one of the things that I love about tim is that he wants to learn, so he's learning about all of this and he has um. We know we have this beautiful, pretty bunch, blended family and he's teaching his um you know my bonus kids about saving and what that means and taking advantage of your 401k match all of that good stuff which has been really to me. It's been really, really cool, I think. I actually think my ex-husband, who was an actuary, believe it or not, married to an actuary he taught me everything I know Well there's a positive.

Melissa Joy: 26:05

Gotta find those silver linings, right, that's right. So here's a question for your audience or for you guys um, if you're working with a financial professional which I know not everybody does and it's not right for everyone, like I'm not judging um, do you feel comfortable enough with that person to say, hey, tim, suspender, um, I'm the saver, I'm the planner. This is how, when we came into our relationship, this is what our experiences were coming with. Because if you can be that comfortable and you're working with the right person who can listen which not everybody can listen either that can be beautiful, because then they can be the bridge when one of you has anxiety over a decision or isn't on the same page, they can help the bridge. When one of you has anxiety over a decision or isn't on the same page, they can help to have both of your presence in the decisions and the room.

Melissa Joy: 26:52

And that takes nuance. That's not everybody, but that is what my ideal would be, for most people is where I can understand hey, you know, like so-and-so came from a divorce background where they, like, saw everything go down the drain, and so they're always going to feel that scarcity and that anxiety, and we need to honor that in the room as we're making decisions and maybe take some more space and time to make sure they're comfortable with it, or maybe we need different mixes of our investments, and so I'm just curious about the experiences of people as to that.

Melissa Joy: 27:27

Yeah, this is I mean my experience is very similar to yours, right my?

Anna Kincannon: 27:34

husband is not. You know, he's not comfortable with money. He doesn't come from money, you know, and I control all of it and I say, hey, your name is on every single account. You just have no access to it. And the reason why is like I mean, and again and again, I mean, we got married. I was 22 years old. We had no money, um, and you know, if he has $20 in the pocket, he'll spend it. He, he, he can't have money. I remember, like I was like where's the $20 to go? I bought some muffins. I'm like you don't even eat muffins. Like what are you talking about? So so this is kind of how my life works.

Anna Kincannon: 28:15

So I had a financial planner who was actually a family friend. It was a mom of one of my friends and then which I had an ability, she knew who we were, right, she knew my husband, she knew myself and our personality. So it worked really good. And then she sold her company and a male took over and you know, we met up for a coffee once and kind of had the conversation. Then, a year later, we had another meeting. At that point my husband joined. It was all about my husband, you know, hey, I want to take you golfing. Let's go golfing, let's do this ABC. And my husband is very good about it. He's like hey, don't talk to me, I know nothing. Um need to talk to her. So my husband left because he didn't end up going golfing.

Anna Kincannon: 29:10

I ended up sitting at the coffee table with the financial planner and at that point I was managing investment portfolio of $14 billion for a large financial institution Amazing. So I actually printed out a Bloomberg sheet for every single fund that he invested the money in. Yeah, and I started asking questions and I had very clear notes that I kind of wanted to see what's underlying every single fund and what I was comfortable and what I wasn't. Line every single fund and what I was comfortable and what I wasn't. And it's probably within three minutes.

Melissa Joy: 29:55

It just blew up. He became aggressive. Wow, I'm uncomfortable hearing this. This must have been so frustrating to experience.

Anna Kincannon: 30:04

So um, it was very unprofessional. So I end up, just you know, uh, leaving and I said I'm moving my money, like this is like not happening, and again, we weren't talking about a lot of money. But the picture here is that, hey, I, I know how you invested my money. You didn't do any research. You put my age in the computer, it gave you some funds, you distributed my money equally, and when I'm asking you deep questions, you have either no understanding or no knowledge of it. And, um, so I end up.

Anna Kincannon: 30:45

So then my account ended up moving into, um, a big bucket and I don't want to call, I don't want to say the company name or anything, yeah, a big custodian, a big custodian. So. And then I get a 1-800 call and this was, I want to say, less than 10 years ago, maybe like seven years ago or so. And then I get the call from one one 800, and they're like oh, who can we connect you with? And I said I want a female. And like we don't have any female crickets, like in in the in Twin Cities area, like Midwest area. And I said, and then, and then leave me in the pool of no ownership until you have a female to take over my account. That's it. Um. So yeah, I end up moving the money and just managing it myself.

Becca Hoeft: 31:33

But like that well, I think I know someone who can help you, anna, um.

Anna Kincannon: 31:39

Melissa.

Melissa Joy: 31:43

This is why my it's such a blue ocean. I mean, I know you guys are marketing people. It is such a blue ocean out there for thoughtful Some people call it the human side of advice. You know, like, where you start with a person, because I would be starting with hearing about you guys and how things operate and we wouldn't even talk about the accounts, even though, like you know, I'm a geek and would love to talk about accounts. You know in depth, ad nauseum, until we understood, like, what makes you guys tick, what you're working on.

Melissa Joy: 32:18

It's just such a different experience and that's why, like you know, even with the advent of AI and other things like life is so good for financial planners, that can be relatable and not. You know you guys are marketing people, so, like, not look like the same, like hey, we've got a lot of money and power and therefore you should trust us. You know, if you can, that breath of fresh air seems to really work because people are like here's my sob story I just had a client this week who's transferring accounts to us and when she notified her advisor who really seemed to have some disconnects, but she's been very careful about the process of interviewing he like called her and was angry with her and I was like, no, that's like another sign, like more confirmation not to like you know, not to pile on, but like that is not appropriate professionally at all.

Anna Kincannon: 33:11

Totally agree. I think if there's one advice that I can give anyone is to actually build a relationship with your financial planner. Right, because when you build it and I can tell I know it from my personality I would be more invested into saving more. Does that make sense, like if I have somebody who is there on the sidelines cheering me up and say, hey, this is your goal, this is how much money. Let's do this Right, I'm more willing to be like okay, I'm going to, I'm going to write another thousand dollars and put it away, versus managing it myself, right, okay, I might, I might put an extra thousand, I might not, I don't know. Right, but having that somebody else to push you along the way, that would be my recommendation.

Melissa Joy: 33:53

They should be your cheerleader. That's what I think they should tell you where you're doing a great job, as well as where you have opportunities. These are things that I would be looking for. I think of my colleague, alexa, and she's not like, hey, I'll take you to golf or, you know, let me buy you 10 tickets to a fancy sports game, even though you know like I'd love 50-yard line tickets to Michigan football. But she is, you know, exchanging book recommendations with clients. Like that's the kind of relational that we like to operate on. It's not schmoozing, it's not like let me throw money at you so you can send money back to me. It's really getting to know people on a personal level. I mean some of the like.

Melissa Joy: 34:33

One of my favorite stories is a client. She talked about wanting to retire early and move to Italy and I was like you can totally do that, but and she was had a like a job close to the C-suite communications executive at a big company. I was like you can do that, but she'd been passed over for some. She'd been getting the promotions without getting the salary, and so I was like you need to make more now. And what she did with that is she started shopping for a new job.

Melissa Joy: 35:02

I didn't say you need a new job. I was like we can change the goals too. She got a job that doubled her salary, had equity compensation, reporting to the CEO, big change, big high profile female position and totally made that dream possible. And then she came back to me and said Melissa, it was our conversation that prompted me to look for this job. These are the types of conversations where it's relational. This is like what makes my skin tingle and it's not about yes, it does matter what she was invested in, but that wasn't the point of the conversation. That's not where I can drive the most value.

Becca Hoeft: 35:39

That is an amazing, amazing story. Thanks for sharing that, and Melissa. So we're coming up to the end of our podcast here, and so it's been so fun. I want to do it again. I know we'll have to have you on again, but you know what. We have to ask you what your cashmere confession is, so please tell all when I was just a pup, when I was growing up.

Melissa Joy: 36:05

I've already described to you that I just didn't know what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I spent my younger years high school and so achievement oriented, but I didn't have like kind of personal satisfaction and a better sense of self that I think you guys have discussed. Like women of a certain age, just learn to you know like um not be a little more authentic, not um as a bunch of a people pleaser, which I feel like is such a truth for so many Gen X and millennial women of just like you need everybody else to be happy with you and you never get a chance to ask yourself how you're doing um. I think that what I would tell my former self, my younger self, is that even like to use the skills I knew how to be successful at work in my personal life and give myself a little bit of a breathing room and give myself a break, it all worked out in the end and I just like had those.

Melissa Joy: 37:02

My twenties were kind of like, you know, a little bit of scarcity, a little bit lost, and you know, give myself the breathing room that you don't have to have it all figured out by age 30. It's not a race and things work out in the end. I also had almost no money for, you know, when I got out of school until I was mid-30s, I, just, like you know, didn't get to do a lot of things that people often do on their bucket list the travel, the destination, weddings and stuff like that. And so, you know, I would tell myself that there will be time in the future where you have that opportunity, or at least there will be money in the future. I don't know if there's as much time, but I also learned a lot of lessons by stubbing my toe and scraping my knee when I was younger that I can use to be relatable and empathetic to people that are feeling those experiences today.

Becca Hoeft: 37:59

Melissa, it has been a joy to have you, no pun intended. Thank you for having me.

Melissa Joy: 38:05

I love the podcast. I can't wait to share you know, share the love with other people and let them understand about you know the work you guys are doing and how you're encouraging people to do more and do better.

Becca Hoeft: 38:21

Well and thank you. And we talked about your podcast Money and Wisdom, but Pearl Planning where can they find out? Where can our listeners find out more about Pearl Planning? Get ahold of you if they need some financial wisdom.

Melissa Joy: 38:36

Well if you go to pearlplancom, it's really easy to schedule an introductory meeting with me or just learn more, or just learn more or just listen to episodes of the podcast, because we have a lot of specific financial topics that I think are relatable. We also do webinars on YouTube and things like that, so you can always find me there. And if you don't work with me, I do encourage you. I just think working with certified financial planners can be extraordinary. It's not for everyone, but if you're feeling a little lost or feeling that imposter syndrome, there are ways to, you know, kind of boost yourself up and increase your money game at the same time.

Anna Kincannon: 39:15

Thank you, Melissa.

Melissa Joy: 39:28

Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to pearlplancom and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned.