Episode 235: Healthy Communication about Money with Relationship Coach Joni Woods

 Description: 

Have you ever felt the frustration of miscommunication straining your personal or professional relationships? 

In this compelling episode of the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast, relationship and communication coach Joni Woods of Journey Coaching shares how she transformed her own communication struggles into powerful personal growth. Together with Melissa Joy, CFP®, CDFA®, they explore the vital roles of self-awareness and accountability, offering listeners practical strategies to elevate their communication skills and enhance their lives. 

From navigating family caregiving challenges to tackling tough workplace scenarios, this episode reveals how letting go of assumptions can lead to better outcomes. 

Additionally, we delve into the concept of personal money origin stories, uncovering how our early financial experiences shape our current behaviors and decisions. Tune in for this enlightening discussion and embark on your journey toward stronger relationships and greater financial wisdom today. 

 Listen and Learn: 

• Discover why healthy communication is the foundation of strong relationships. 
• Understand the importance of active listening and empathy in extending an olive branch and resetting communication lines. 
• Learn how third-party mediators can play a crucial role in opening up dialogue and finding effective solutions. 
• Explore how communication challenges can surface in diverse settings, from co-parenting to workplace interactions and family dynamics. 

Resources:  

• Learn more about Joni on her Website  
• Connect with Joni on LinkedIn 
• Follow Joni on Instagram 

Links are being provided for information purposes only. The information herein is general and educational in nature and should not be considered legal or tax advice. Tax laws and regulations are complex and subject to change, which can materially impact investment results. Pearl Planning cannot guarantee that the information herein is accurate, complete, or timely. Pearl Planning makes no warranties with regard to such information or results obtained by its use and disclaims any liability arising out of your use of, or any tax position taken in reliance on, such information. Consult an attorney or tax professional regarding your specific situation. Please note, changes in tax laws or regulations may occur at any time and could substantially impact your situation. Pearl Planning financial advisors do not render advice on tax matters. You should discuss any tax matters with the appropriate professional. 

The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only.  No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https...

Transcript

Melissa Joy (00:01.852) 

How do you build from a place where communication just feels off, feels awful, where there's past baggage that is getting in the way of getting things done, whether it comes to money or to life? That's gonna be the focus of our conversation today. And I'm joined by someone who has learned from experience and is helping others because of this experience. Joni Woods is a relationship and communication coach. 

And she likes to say that the best relationships come from a form of healthy communication. Joni's gonna tell us a little bit about her story and the work that she does and give us some communication tips. And I think this weaves into all of the work that we do and we talk about on our podcast about how to do better when it comes to money. Joni , welcome to the podcast. 

Joni (00:49.036) 

Thanks for having me. 

Melissa Joy (00:51.184) 

Well, I'm so glad you're here and your origin story is one that could easily be a reason to not do the coaching, not do the work, but instead you've made it your purpose. Can you tell us a little bit, starting with the father of your children, your ex -husband, and communication with his family about kind of how you learned the importance of communication done right or done 

Joni (01:19.598) 

Well, I'll tell you, it started out by being done wrong in a lot of ways. think people, when you're done with a relationship, you just assume you're done. And that was mistake number one. 

Nobody told me that, hey, you might want to consider a way of figuring out how to communicate in not only with my ex -husband, because we had no co -parenting relationship, but just even their his family and what that would look like. And not a lot of people expect. 

their ex to pass away suddenly within 72 hours, he was gone. And because we hadn't focused on that, because I hadn't focused on that, it was really difficult to even engage in the conversation of you are welcome to come see the kids, you know, like, my son, so it was 20. 

Melissa Joy (02:14.694) 

How old were your kids at this time? 

Joni (02:21.341) 

2020 and so that was four years ago. So my son would have been 12 going on 13 or 13 going on 14. Yeah, he was getting ready to start the eighth grade. And then my daughter, so eight or nine, like somewhere in there. I'm so bad with that. Quick math, this is why I don't do finances. 

Melissa Joy (02:39.194) 

Makes sense. They couldn't manage their own communication though with his family. 

Joni (02:44.478) 

Exactly, exactly. And they didn't know, they didn't understand why they weren't hearing from them. They didn't understand because, I mean, I don't know for sure, but as much as I tried to welcome them into my home, because I hadn't set a precedence through our communication of just being open and genuine, 

I don't know that they felt that in their grief moment. They had lost their son, they had lost their brother, that kind of stuff. So it was difficult. It was really difficult. And my kids paid the price for it. Because eventually my kids started asking what they had done wrong. And that's not OK. That was on me. I should never have allowed it to get to the point where they're wanting to know. 

Melissa Joy (03:10.994) 

I'm 

Melissa Joy (03:24.348) 

Mm -hmm. 

Joni (03:33.918) 

in the worst situation of their life, what they did wrong, they did nothing wrong. I did it all wrong. And so that's why, but I wouldn't have gotten to that point had I not taken the time to go, how should I have done this better so that I can do things better in the future? Because they deserve a relationship 

my ex -husband's family. They're actually right now in Springfield, Illinois, hanging out with their grandparents and they're attending the family reunions. I mean, they need those people in their lives. If anything, just to say I have people 

Melissa Joy (04:13.488) 

I love hearing that and your work now has expanded beyond co -parenting or intergenerational communication coaching to professional settings, to all sorts of settings. But I think one of the first things that sticks out to me is I know when people are going through trauma, through unexpected difficult situations, even unexpected beneficial situations. 

that it's very difficult to navigate the emotions that are happening and all of the other elements that, you know, whether you won the lottery or lost someone unexpectedly, that there's a lot going on. A lot of other people in your ear saying, here's how what should be happening. This is what's right. This is what's wrong. And you had you had come from a professional place where you had a background in ministry, correct? So you're you're introspective thinking about purpose and things like that. How did 

What did you learn that could be a pathway for yourself and others to communicate better or kind of fix broken communication lines? 

Joni (05:16.334) 

I think that fixing broken communication line, just any kind of communication starts with you. You've got to figure out, am I the creator of my own suffering? You know, I had to look at the situation with my ex's family and go, okay, well that was on me and I'm suffering in these kinds of situations because I didn't learn how to be better. And it's not true in every situation, but you know, we all play a 

Melissa Joy (05:24.114) 

Mm 

Joni (05:45.87) 

in our daily lives. Our lives just don't happen to us. They happen from our choices, whether it's something that's coming and biting you in ass again, you know, like it's just, they come from your choices and you need to be not only self -aware enough to recognize that, but you also have to be accountable to 

Very rarely are we collateral damage in someone else's poor decisions. It happens, it does. But even then, like I've looked at bad friendships that I knew I should have walked away from long time ago and I was collateral damage in their drama and I was like, but I knew it. I knew I should have, yeah, I chose to stay in 

Melissa Joy (06:24.604) 

That was a choice. 

Joni (06:30.164) 

situation because for whatever reason, my savior complex, you know, like all of those kind of things, you know, even being a youth and young adult pastor for the longest time, I felt personally responsible for making sure that I was reaching everybody. But at the end of the day, I ended up burnt out. So I have to go, is that really what ministry is about? Or is it just being genuine and authentic? 

Melissa Joy (06:33.073) 

Mm -hmm. 

Joni (06:57.458) 

And so it's that self -awareness, it's asking those questions that I think is the best way to learn how to communicate through trauma through the really difficult times. 

Melissa Joy (07:10.052) 

So let's say that you evaluate the circumstances and you decide that you're not collateral damage. You want to be proactive, but you also with communication, obviously there's yourself and then whoever else or whatever else or however many people you're also trying to make decisions with, talk to, explain your perspective, things like that. How do you send the olive branch when things have hit a disconnect, which happens so often when it comes to money. 

and families or groups of people when groups of people are involved. It's just really, you're not just navigating, you know, checks and accounts and dollars and cents. You're also navigating people, emotions, past relationships, history. How do you start to, you know, reset the table if things have gone off the rails? 

Joni (07:59.254) 

The first step I suggest, this is kind of where active listening comes in, but it's more than just like listening to the situation. It's taking yourself, recognizing one, the growth that you've just done, the self -reflection, the self -awareness, all that kind of stuff. Recognizing that you've taken the time to do that, and then not in a bad way, but going, would someone else have done that work? 

You know, because I don't know, after my ex passed, I don't know that they would have done that work had I not gone, okay, well, one of us has to. One of us has to go, right, exactly. And so when you're able to say, I'm not sure that they are even in a place where they can have that kind of self -awareness. So because of that, I can give grace. I can suddenly be like, okay, I've done the work. 

Melissa Joy (08:35.586) 

If not me who? 

Joni (08:54.24) 

And it doesn't put me at a level that's, you know, like people are like, well, that just means I'm better. No, actually, that just means you're able to be more empathetic. You're able to take yourself out of your position and say, OK. 

If they're not there yet, how do I help them get there so that we have a healthier relationship? And to do that, that means I have to take myself out of my situation and my feelings and my frustrations and put myself in their situation, their feelings, their frustrations. And I wouldn't necessarily even say we know 50 % of what they're thinking, but it's a start. know, it's something that says, OK. 

How can I better understand you so that we can relate better? That's what I think active listening really is. It's not just being like, wait, what was that? know, like putting your ears there. No, no, no. It's going, okay, how do I feel what you're feeling? How do I see what you're seeing? How do I take my lenses off and put yours on so that I can give more grace? 

Melissa Joy (10:03.334) 

Well, that's a really vulnerable decision, right? Because you are opening yourself up to however they see you with, which may or may not feel the same as how you see yourself. You may also though be giving yourself less credit than you deserve, who knows? Sometimes I suspect, and I know this is some of the work that you do, that it's helpful to have a third party because pulling those lenses off or the assumptions are that, 

everybody has their own, you know, kind of perspective and history and there's so much water under the bridge that it's difficult to reset the table. How does a third party or a mediator assist with opening up the components of communication? 

Joni (10:52.6) 

Well, I definitely, when I'm brought into a group, it's less mediation because mediation is you give to get. It's, right, right, right. Right, and I've done that too. you know, but that's what I tell my clients is I'm like, we're not trying 

Melissa Joy (11:02.736) 

Right. Or maybe two rooms and somebody's going in between the two rooms. Like if anybody's been through a mediation and divorce. 

Hahaha. 

Joni (11:18.54) 

give up something to feel like you lost, we're trying to ask questions so that we kind of meet in the middle. So as you're asking questions, like, okay, what is it that I need out of this situation? What is it that I'm lacking? Or what is it that I can give? What is it that you need that I can meet your need and give? And just keep building on that so that you meet in the middle. That's how I think... 

That's how I approach third party conversations when I go in. 

Melissa Joy (11:50.64) 

What would be some examples, not to disclose anybody's personal information, but some examples of groups that might approach you to help to be a facilitator or consultant on this? 

Joni (12:02.67) 

I've done everything from corporate to I have the honor right now of working with a family who is trying to figure out the best solution for caring for a family member. it's the family, the family members are coming together and there's not necessarily differences in the fact that they want to see their family member have the best quality of life. It's actually like, how can I play a role? 

Melissa Joy (12:14.928) 

Mmm. 

Joni (12:31.272) 

what can I do? And so even I said, let's start with questions. Like, what questions do you have? We have a lot of statements. There's a lot of like concerns and issues, know, like opinions. Let's put all of those aside and let's come with the questions because that is how we come to a better solution instead of making assumptions. 

Melissa Joy (12:43.563) 

and... 

Melissa Joy (12:56.326) 

Well, and I also think with open -ended questions, you can get a better perspective for that empathy that you're asking for people to bring to the room versus going straight to the, you've been stewing on it and then say, this is what needs to happen. Well, then other people don't feel seen, heard, or they may have other considerations. So would be helpful to understand. 

Joni (13:16.3) 

Right, exactly. 

Melissa Joy (13:18.214) 

Well, and those family dynamics are so interesting and we come up against them in so many different ways, whether your first example of co -parenting after a relationship, thinking about generational needs, sandwich generation. Also in the corporate setting, you could be at work where the need to understand the motivations of other people would be so helpful to, you 

Joni (13:41.24) 

you 

Melissa Joy (13:45.074) 

to advocating for the outcomes that you need or else sometimes perhaps, I don't know if you have to do this saying it's okay if it's not the way that you see it that is the final outcome. What are your suggestions in that unhealthy or difficult or challenging communication in the workplace? 

Joni (14:02.962) 

I think that the most, my biggest advice would be just because you talk about it doesn't mean you're going to find a solution. Sometimes the solution is just being able to be like, okay, it's time to move on. But I mean, I feel that way in like relationships to a degree, obviously not family, but, you know, if you talk about it and needs aren't being met, goals aren't being set, you know, like that kind of stuff, we're not elevating 

Melissa Joy (14:14.701) 

Mmm. 

Joni (14:32.448) 

relationship, whatever that looks like, know, manager, boss, employee, employees, whatever, peer levels, peer levels, you know, if you're not elevating those through conversation, healthy communication, then maybe it's time to just say, okay, this isn't the place for me anymore. And I think that's where people get scared, you know, they're scared to end something to find a new beginning. 

Melissa Joy (14:42.576) 

yeah. 

Joni (15:01.984) 

and what that looks like. 

Melissa Joy (15:04.112) 

Yeah, I can think of a conversation, I need to have it with a client now and it's not really my decision. You know, the question was, can I quit? And, you know, it's a lot more complicated than the money person can, you know, we work with strategies that can be bridges to the need to make different changes and certainly financial planning gives you more options and opportunities because you plan for the unexpected and also done your best, hopefully with money decisions over time. 

But that is so interesting because I think the communication coach can be a really big deal. And then also I think it's true. don't, not everything is fixable nor should it be. you know, everybody's bringing their own, you know, kind of autonomy, hopefully to the table. And they have that power to, in many cases, in not all cases, but many cases to walk away. 

Joni (15:57.806) 

Yeah, well, and everyone grows. mean, hopefully that's what you're doing. You're growing your emotional intelligence. You're growing your awareness. You're realizing that the behaviors maybe 20, 10, five, six months ago 

you know, okay for now and who it is that you want to be as a person. You know, so when you're able to start doing that and then you can say, okay, maybe this is time. Maybe this is something I just need to let go instead of holding onto it so tight. 

Melissa Joy (16:32.178) 

there any reading or listening materials that if you are listening to this conversation saying, think I like, this is one of the ways that I would love to grow is be a better communicator, be more effective, navigate the challenges, confront them versus, you know, letting them fester meander. What do you recommend, you know, where can you learn more that would be effective and not just here's the problem, but here's, here's how to address 

Joni (16:57.303) 

Yeah, the book that I use in my training courses is Nonviolent Communication by Dr. B. Rosenberg. It's very, it's interesting because it kind of feels like a textbook. So you have to take your time with it and you have to go through it again. And there's exercises and then you practice. But it was probably 

Melissa Joy (17:05.519) 

Mmm. 

Joni (17:20.75) 

Every step felt hard. The first step is observation over evaluation. You want to learn how to observe and not just make assumptions and evaluate. And I liken it to the game Charades. When you're playing Charades and someone is trying to show you, this is the movie. 

Melissa Joy (17:35.253) 

interesting. 

Joni (17:41.258) 

Instead of just shouting the answers, you start asking questions. So it brings you closer to figuring out the answer as opposed to getting frustrated because suddenly, you know, if you're playing charades and you're trying to say the sun and you're doing big circles and it's like bright, like you can't say anything and someone's just yelling at you ball, circle, and you're like, how do I do it? Instead of asking questions like, okay, are you round? Yes. Are you? 

Big, yes. Just asking those questions that slowly bring you together, as opposed to when you're yelling and evaluating, it just keeps building a wall. Because suddenly the person trying to communicate is frustrated that they're not getting their message across. And the person that's trying to figure it out is frustrated because you're not getting your message across. So that book is so good when it breaks those things down. It's awesome. 

Melissa Joy (18:30.288) 

Mm -hmm. 

Melissa Joy (18:36.89) 

that's really interesting. I love to hear that. Well, going through, you also are very open about talking about another personal challenge that you had. You experienced a fire at your personal home. But in all of these experiences, you're talking about you're just vulnerable and open. And I think it's so helpful for other people to learn from that. But I also know, you you have a constructive growing spirit that 

Of course, I'm sure there are days where you're just like, why is this happening to me? But can you tell me a little bit more about those, what you've learned from those experiences and why you think you've been able to be as resilient as you have and also share that with your children and your family? 

Joni (19:27.182) 

That's a lot of questions. I think a lot of that came from when I decided to get a divorce. It was like, I knew I was going to be up against wall after roadblock, after bump, after everything like that. And so, 

Melissa Joy (19:27.504) 

I know that's like a loaded question. Yeah. 

Joni (19:48.59) 

in order to make a decision like that where I was ending a 15 -year marriage where it meant that I might never be able to help people the way that I used to as a youth and young adult pastor because once you divorce, and that was, I mean, almost 10 years ago, things have changed, but nobody would want me anymore. All of those kind of things, there's the possibility that I would be single for the rest of my life. There's all of that, 

getting out of that relationship was worth every roadblock that I came across. But in order to be okay with that, I had to make that decision day one. You know, like I couldn't come back to it and be like, maybe like for me, I've always been someone that once I make a decision, I've made a decision, it's gonna happen. And I'm not going back. Like, I'm gonna figure this out. 

And it was because I wanted to see two happy homes. That's what I told my kids. We were miserable. They were miserable. I was miserable. My ex -husband was miserable. And the only goal I had was two happy homes. And that's what I stuck to. I just stuck to it and I stuck to it and I stuck to it. And so when the fire happened, it was like I was I was sitting on the side of the road and I remember 

I called my best friend and just asked, why does this stuff happen to me? And I remember feeling like I need to be crying. I need to be hysterical. And I was just like, okay, and I didn't. I mean, I cried a little bit, but I just sat there. Yeah, that's very true. 

Melissa Joy (21:19.046) 

Mm -hmm. 

Melissa Joy (21:28.048) 

Well, I'm sure you were in shock as well. That's something that happens, you know, that is real whether you have personal injuries or not. 

Joni (21:36.222) 

Exactly. it was, there were nine fire trucks. Fire trucks just kept screaming by, screaming by. You could hear the popping of the windows and the popping of the tires and the engine block and everything. And you could just, like, I barely even remember looking at it because I didn't have to, you know, I didn't have to watch my life go down in flames. I knew it was happening. And I just remember sitting there going, okay, my life is completely different. This is the moment where my life is 

Melissa Joy (21:54.064) 

Mm -hmm. 

Joni (22:05.606) 

different and what am gonna do? And there wasn't anything that I could do except say, you know, I couldn't complain about what had happened. I couldn't think through, okay, these are the issues. There should have been a fire extinguisher there. You know, like, I, I, the shoulda couldas weren't gonna help me provide for my kids moving forward. They weren't gonna help me be strong for my kids and my daughter's crying and bawling her eyes out and 

You know, me going, oh, that should have happened or we should have done this. That wasn't gonna help. It just wasn't. What was gonna help was for me to go, okay, what's next? Let's do this. I you know, there's, I'm, I was a zombie. I don't think I slept for the first like 36 hours, but it was just, we gotta keep going. There's, we can't sit down. Cause I think sometimes you sit down and you atrophy. You stop. 

everything starts to get brittle, everything starts to hurt even more actually, I think. Your muscles are like, And I think that that's why I did what I did and how I did 

Melissa Joy (23:14.938) 

Yeah, and that doesn't discount the power of going through the process of grief. But what you're describing is so universal when it comes to healthy response to adversity, which is focusing on what you can control. So, you know, whether it was a divorce and you can control the outcomes in your household. 

Joni (23:20.151) 

Okay. 

Melissa Joy (23:39.226) 

you get to build that household and you have the opportunity for it. And you also have the opportunity to set a perspective that hopefully can be received in the co -parenting household. When it comes to a fire, there's taking care of yourself in the initial moments of trauma, but there's also thinking about rebuilding, having healthy space for your kids to grieve, but also to give them the reassurance 

you have the capacity to build back and help them not to live in that moment of the rear view mirror. And I think that that is something that I've seen, whether it's an investor with a bad investment, an unexpected job loss, loss of a loved one, all of those things, things don't always happen in a linear fashion. 

and having a perspective and mindset that can think through things and continue to build, continue to live can be extraordinarily helpful. Of course, communication matters. I can understand why you're so relational in the work that you do because you have the right perspective and mindset to navigate and manage your own challenges, but then teach those skills to other. 

others in a way that is authentic and vulnerable and not just built on a bulletproof. These will be the, you know, this is the four bullet points on how to communicate. 

Well, how can people find you if they're interested in learning more about the work that you do as a communication coach? 

Joni (25:22.034) 

I'm on probably every social media, LinkedIn, Instagram. You can find me on website. can Google my name. My face pops up. You'll see me. I'm, I'm everywhere. And then pretty much all my contact information is up there. You know, my business phone, you can do an. Yeah. 

Melissa Joy (25:42.224) 

We'll make sure to have that in show notes. And are you working on a 

Joni (25:47.822) 

I am working on a book. So I wrote that book post divorce. was, I was working the third shift at a hospital, 7 PM to 7 AM from 2016 to 2017. You know, there's only so much you can do from the hours of two to four and you got to stay awake. And so I just wrote a book. I had gone through an immediate rebound relationship. 

Melissa Joy (25:49.924) 

What are you going to be talking about there? 

Joni (26:15.674) 

that was devastating. My father passed away. I hadn't spoken to him in about, I don't know, four years and about two days before he died, I had sent him an email just to let him know, hey, I'm getting a divorce. This is what's going on. And so I literally reconnected with my father two days before he died. So just all of the lessons that I learned, it's very foundational to who I am right now. 

And I made a lot of mistakes. But I also made a lot of choices that I was like, I had never experienced life. And I wanted to experience it so that I knew what I was talking about. One of the corporate jobs that I got, the reason I got it was because he said, you've been through so much and you still like people. 

Clearly, you're obviously passionate about what you do. I'm a relationship coach, and I have been through some really shitty relationships. But I still believe in them, and I still want to love every person I come in contact with. So the book is a little bit about that, a lot of self -awareness, self -reflection, life. 

Melissa Joy (27:27.964) 

Well, everybody has an origin story, whether they know it or they're carrying their invisible backpack, waiting them down unbeknownst to them. And whether you're able to articulate it to help with effective communication or it's always helpful for me to understand your money origin story, the lessons that you learned from growing up or the experiences that you had earlier in life. I think that, you know, I'll be excited to read and maybe have a book group about the book, but then also 

I hope it will inspire others to identify their origin stories and help to understand how that makes them who they are today and what they want to keep and what they need to change. So I just think that the work that you're doing and the open conversations that you have about this are so valuable and I'm so glad that we were able to share it with the audience. Thanks so much for joining us. 

Joni (28:17.238) 

Aw, thank you. Thanks for having me.