Building a Resilience Plan with Dr. Marie-Hélène Pelletier

Unlock the secret to sustaining peak performance and mental health as Dr. Mary Ellen Pelletier, affectionately known as MH, invites us on a transformative journey. She brings her expertise from the intersection of business and psychology to the table, offering a strategic roadmap in her new book, "The Resilience Plan." Tailored to both leaders and professionals, her approach focuses on aligning personal values with work demands through a custom SWOT analysis, cultivating a resilience that not only enhances work performance but also ensures mental health sustainability.

The obstacles that high achievers and leaders face when it comes to mental health are often steeped in the reluctance to seek help or admit the need for resources. MH sheds light on the power of employee and family assistance programs and shares real-life success stories demonstrating substantial growth in business and personal realms. Her insights challenge listeners to embrace self-awareness, translate psychological concepts into the language of business, and take practical steps toward resilience—one incremental change at a time.

As we conclude our session with MH, we're reminded of the delicate balance between our emotional health and the ever-evolving demands of our professional lives, especially with the integration of artificial intelligence. The episode unravels the metaphor of the double helix, representing the intertwining of personal and professional resilience, and confronts the positivity bias in leadership. We wrap up by calling on you to spread the message of growth and resilience by sharing this episode with those poised to make a change, subscribing to our newsletter for more insights, and helping us foster a culture of proactive mental health in the workplace. Join us on this journey to build a resilient and thriving future.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Start with your values. There's no other way to keep things personal, customized to you, than starting from this, and I guide people on how to do this. It's not complicated but it's important. Then looking realistically at your sources of demands, both in the personal and professional, your sources of supply, what brings you energy, increases your resilience, and then looking at your context, much similar to what we would do in business in a SWOT analysis strength, weaknesses internally, and then opportunities and threats externally. So here it's doing a SWOT on you. So what internally is helping or not so much, and what's externally helping or not so much on the resilient side, which then leads to your custom resilient strategic plan.

Speaker 2: 0:44

That was Dr Mary Ellen Pelletier, affectionately known to her colleagues as MH. Recently, brian, linda and I had the opportunity to chat with her about her new book, the Resilience Plan a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health. Now Dr Pelletier stands at this unique crossroads of business and psychology, equipped with both a PhD and an MBA, she really excels in transforming intricate psychological research into actionable strategies that empower professionals, business leaders and their teams to excel and flourish. And on this episode of the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture, we discuss the critical intersection of mental health and resilience within professional and personal environments, since, you know, those two things can't really be separated. Mh outlines some of the basic ideas for building your resilience plan, the role teams play in this, and also offers us some of her insights into practical strategies for all professionals aiming to enhance work performance and mental health sustainability. Now there's more details in the show notes, or you can hop on to our website at leadershipvisionconsultingcom where you can find info about her book and some more notes, and I gotta say that this was just a really fun conversation and I hope that that comes through here as you listen to our conversation with Dr Mary Ellen Peltier.

Speaker 2: 2:06

This is the Leadership Vision Podcast. Let's get started. First things first. Dr Peltier, how do you say your name? Is it Marie Ellen?

Speaker 1: 2:17

Yeah, almost, mary, marie, marie, Marie, okay, yeah, yeah, long French and complicated, but then you can go M-H Once you've said it once. However you say it, I will respond to all versions.

Speaker 3: 2:28

It's fine, did you say. I'm French and complicated.

Speaker 1: 2:32

My name is. French long and complicated French and complicated.

Speaker 2: 2:36

yes, it is French long and complicated.

Speaker 3: 2:37

I have genes like that. Tell us about you. Tell us yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:40

So I'm from originally Quebec City. That's where I did my first two degrees and then Husbands in Mining. So we went up north in Quebec and worked there for a bit, but that was over 20 years ago when internet was not very active and so people there did not have access to good resources. I was interested in a PhD program at UBC. I moved before getting in.

Speaker 4: 3:03

Early 20s decision making.

Speaker 1: 3:06

Thank God it worked. But hello, what was I thinking? I'm not sure, but it worked. And so then I did my PhD in what I had to explain every single time at the time in telehealth, so providing psychotherapy via video conferencing. I had to use six telephone lines to transmit video and audio data, it was like, and I had to convince the college and associations to let me do it. No, they were so legal in their response to me at the time because it was like, oh my god, it's weird, and so that was interesting. But doing this research at that time required that I get a lot of funding for technology training in that and also that I manage a lot of funding for technology training in that, and also that I manage a lot of people without being able to pay them and keep them stable over the year, to not interfere with data and so.

Speaker 1: 3:53

So all this led to interest in management, so then I went back to my PhD supervisor towards, you know, just post defense, and I said, ok, I'm going to need recommendation letter, and she said, yeah, postdoc. And I said no, mba, and she said what? I'm going to need a recommendation letter, and she said, yay, postdoc.

Speaker 3: 4:05

And I said no, mba, and she said what? Oh?

Speaker 2: 4:06

wow.

Speaker 1: 4:11

So, yeah, did the MBA part-time, thankfully to get in the real world, Because by then that would not have been a good idea to do full-time. I would have just been the gal who goes to school. So I started in junior leadership roles like managing a call center, At which point all of my colleagues from psychology looked at me and said you are not anymore one of us because you're in management, so money interests you and you're not real psychologist, obviously. So I was there managing the call center, loved it and, despite significant challenges as it always is and then moved up into more senior roles, up to chief officer role, got recruited by Sun Life Financial to lead their first mental health strategy. For them and all their group benefits clients led a combination of mental, physical, financial health strategy and then for the past six years, mostly keynote speaking, executive coaching and still small practice with professionals and leaders, and then the book, of course, that came out in.

Speaker 4: 5:10

February so what was the jumping off point? Was it the mix of all the different kinds of health, not just mental health, but emotional, physical?

Speaker 1: 5:36

Has it always been there? I'm not sure if there's like a specific point. Really, I'm looking, probably always been there, probably seeing the early body of evidence pointing to all the um, what we know from research and lifestyle that impacts so many areas physical, mental, financial and then the research showing the impacts between these three and therefore making it such a great investment from all perspectives. But that's early research really, so I may have always been there, linda.

Speaker 3: 6:11

So this is a question directed at, I guess, all of us and you, marie, reaching back before the pandemic, before COVID. Was there a mental health awakening for you? Was there a mental health awakening for you that was a catalytic moment that reinforced the need for this type of work to be done? Because I know that I've had that moment, lynn has had that moment, nathan's had that moment. But was there something for you where you realized, if I don't pay attention to my mental health, you know this is going to be good for humanity.

Speaker 1: 6:56

So my early one now many mayors literally it was in my first year of practice because Nick and I, my husband, we had moved up north in Quebec remote area. So therefore, within the first year built a resume that no one in my years could ever build because I was doing everything Seriously.

Speaker 1: 7:05

I was in court in schools, in hospitals, in employee and family assistance programs, in private practice. In one year Nick and I put over 100,000 kilometers on our brand new car because you'd have to drive so much and travel so much everywhere. But one of the key pieces here was employee and family assistance program, mostly with people working in the mining industry, and they would come here in these sessions. They would never, ever have consulted a psychologist if it wasn't from that free, easy service. And it's seeing early the impact of one session, sometimes more, but the impact of one session. Mind blowing and so mind blowing for people I worked with, mind blowing for me, applying it also over the years and continuing to do so, continuing to apply my own book as much as I can. So, yeah, that would be my moment. It's beautiful.

Speaker 2: 8:00

Kind of along those lines. Then I'm curious so your book, the Resilience Plan, a strategic approach to optimizing your work performance and mental health. But how does a leader, an executive, a high achiever get to the point where they realize they need a book like this? Or they are burnt out or they're not like operating at the highest level that they could be. I imagine most people that you work with they're already at the point of like, yes, I need help. But for those who clearly need help but aren't willing to admit it because they're at this level where they feel like I don't know, maybe there's some stigma, they don't want to admit it. Like, how do you get to those people? Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 8:36

Yes, more and more people are seeing the importance, importance of optimizing their brain language. That, brian, and probably all of you here and these high performers know it university professors, top leaders, individual contributor, senior level professionals. They know this, so they don't approach it from I have a resilience problem perspective. They approach it from what I have I've built, sometimes over a few decades, to get to where I am right now, and I'm reaching a point where I have another one or two decades that I can absolutely have fun with if I maintain this and I can see other people around me burning out. I can sometimes see it from here, but it's not going to happen to me, of course, because I'm the rock, yeah, but I can be proactive about it, and so that's that group.

Speaker 2: 9:32

Interesting. Yeah, it just seems like it's such a hard when you're in it. Sometimes it's so hard to realize that you need the help or that you need to see it before. Yeah, almost before you hit rock bottom, before you truly truly burn out. That's right.

Speaker 3: 9:49

So, when you talk about how people are managing or addressing their need for resilience, at what point of this self-awareness and self-efficacy like what do they need to do there to really understand, maybe, what it is that they need and what some of those initial first steps are?

Speaker 1: 10:08

Yes, yes, so that's part of what I talk about in the book Exactly. I've basically extracted just from my experience, both in psychology and in business, the kinds of tools that they are coming from strategy and business. They connect. I mean you two you three being in this field. Sorry, I say you two because Linda is with Brian, but then you're included.

Speaker 2: 10:31

I appreciate that.

Speaker 1: 10:32

Thank you for including me. We might be several time zones away, but we're together in heart.

Speaker 2: 10:38

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:39

Yes, we are so okay. But point is, I just expected some of the things that for an extremely busy person that doesn't have a lot of time can get to this in a language that they relate to, as opposed to clinical, soft, witchy, washy, problematic, whatever what I call supply and demand in an extremely realistic way. So I catched many of their blind spots there and then looking at their context, using tools we use in strategy there, just so again they get very realistic.

Speaker 1: 11:12

That's the main thing, because they don't pay attention, or if they pay attention, they're not realistic about it. So let's fix these two things, and so then we can develop a plan that is doable. And it's so doable, so practical. You could literally get this book before your flight and cross. You need to cross a continent, but you can get out with your plan.

Speaker 4: 11:32

So what are some of the responses from either some of the readers? Or what I like is you're translating psychological terms, principles, into business speak, so that the business people can hear it in a different way. And so what have you? You know, what are some of the cases where you're, or the people that come to mind, or teams that come to mind of like that was a win, like that really this was helpful to them, Like what are some of the response?

Speaker 1: 11:58

Yes, yes, one of them is in the process of developing the book. Sometimes people will do a focus group to just test the concepts of the book and that. So I did that. And one person in this group was a leader, business development type vice president person, so she developed her plan, did this group. Thank you very much.

Speaker 1: 12:16

Not long after I get an email and I say we're doing a yearly, annual thing with all of our leaders within this team, can you travel and come and do this workshop with everyone? Yes, I can. So I did. So she's there and she sits at the back and says you know, I'll just listen this time. Well, this was now about three months after she came back at the end. So excited, she said, okay, I thought I'd just sit this out and just, you know, let others enjoy it. I decided I realized she says that my first plan had now been implemented, I had reached these goals and I was ready for the next iteration, which is exactly the same as in business when we do a strategy and then we're ready to evolve it. And so then so she was excited because she had her next one realized how she had accomplished what she had set out to accomplish for the first round because it was so realistic, had accomplished what she had set out to accomplish for the first round because it was so realistic.

Speaker 4: 13:08

And so I was like oh beautiful, it's like. This is why you got into the work in the first place, right?

Speaker 1: 13:11

Yes, yeah, yeah. So such a great example to see it in action?

Speaker 1: 13:16

Yeah, I know so with that story, can you explain more of the framework of how the strategic planning part of coping with resilience yes, people, especially now post-pandemic, have heard a lot about what we have known for a fair bit of time, of what needs to happen to increase our resilience. So we've known this in research. We were trying to get it out to as many people as possible. The pandemic did that. So now you'd have an audience of 100 people or less, much less. They would be able to tell us what we know from research has been established as increasing their resilience 100% point on this. Then, if we use a thermometer of how many are actually implementing any of these things very low. How much do they want to implement these things? Very high. So we've got a problem. We're often just not being realistic here, and so what the plan does is it puts in the hands of each individual. Some of them decide to work with me also just to make it go even faster.

Speaker 1: 14:22

But the plan, the structure on how to get there, basically ensures that you move away from the disconnect almost between. I should exercise five times half an hour a week. I know this, I've done this before when I was 20 and it was great, and now it's been a long time since I've done this and now I'm here. I need it. I know, I realize, I do realize I need it and I'm not implementing it. What the plan does is, given your context, what is realistic here? And because it becomes realistic, it becomes something they can implement, they do, builds the self-efficacy, starts the momentum you can grow it from there, changes everything literally, and so that's how it changes the resilience, both from an actual implementation plan and the mindset. Finally, I'm back in control of that part of my own mindset, my own resilience, and that's how it works.

Speaker 3: 15:25

Okay, you said something in there that got my attention, so it was a question I was going to ask earlier Mental health, mindset, resilience and context. How important is the context and how would you define that? Because from our frame of reference, we have many different ways. We seek to understand context, but what is the role of context in supporting someone's mindset, mental health and their resiliency and their plan for that?

Speaker 1: 15:50

I know Day and night game changer. It's critical and it's fine, no matter what the context is, even when the context is not so helpful. Very challenging, very demanding. All this that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is not being realistic, not having awareness of what the context is and therefore then taking action.

Speaker 1: 16:18

Sometimes it's similar to you know sometimes leaders, team members, will relay how a CEO just came to the town hall meeting and said all right, everyone, we're going to have the toughest next six months you've ever thought you'd ever have, and not one's going to make it, but we have to do it.

Speaker 1: 16:36

And so then people are feeling it, we have to do it. And so then people are feeling it, but then they do nothing else, they just say this. So that's similar to saying okay, we're going to go in extreme north, and not everyone's going to make it, it's going to be very tough, and well, let's do it. That is not very helpful, we're going to need, we're going to need. But if we have equipment, if we have minus you know how many degrees boots, if we have the right jackets, if we have the right protections, there is a much higher chance that all of us will make it so in our lives, in our extremely demanding lives, if we are in whatever context we're in, but at least we're aware of it, then we can take actions to mitigate, protect whatever needs or can happen, and then we can go through with much more resilience.

Speaker 4: 17:31

Is the lack of change more due to fear of like oh, they told me it's gonna be hard. Of like oh, they told me it's going to be hard, so I just I don't want to do it. What is the? Is the stuck moments because people don't have the plan or the action steps to get to the other side. What have you seen?

Speaker 1: 17:50

So why people are not doing any of these? Yeah, yeah, I would say, a lot of the time it's because they are going with the belief that they can. That's especially true of high performers. It's true for a lot of people still, whether they consider themselves high performers or not. Sometimes you've developed this belief on your own and with people around you that you are a rock, you can go through things, you're the rock of the family, you're the rock of the team, you can handle anything. We know this about you. You just stay calm and you carry everyone around, you know everyone through, and so you get to a point where you you believe it.

Speaker 1: 18:27

And so, between this belief and between the fact that there are so many demands happening here, like the operations needs to happen and I say operations on the business side of things, but also just the demands on the personal side, whatever they are, all this is happening, so there is not that much time anyway to self-reflect. Between being super busy and having been told, having integrated the belief that you will, you can, you've always done this you put your head down and keep going. That's probably the biggest barrier. And then there are others, like thinking you'll be fine, you'll figure it out when you cross. You know you'll cross the river when you get there, type of thinking.

Speaker 1: 19:04

But yes, sometimes it's also to your point just not knowing how, and. But it connects right. If you don't have a lot of time and you don't know how, it's like overwhelming. I'm letting go If I don't have a lot of time, but you're telling me how and you're saying put five minutes on this, 10 minutes on this and another 15 on this. Okay, now I start thinking okay, I could put an hour.

Speaker 3: 19:26

As you're talking and as I'm recalling the work that I've done in preparation for this, I can't help but wonder how much of this work that you're doing involves people unlearning some of the lessons that got them to the point of resisting resilience, because we know that the power of shame and blame, judgment and criticism, the power of negative narratives and how it is that that the mind works to keep us in a place of safety and protection. I also know that part of any type of limiting belief is to step into the invitation that resilience is actually asking us to do is to step into a place of discomfort that will lead us to something that's necessary. On the other side, how much of your work is dealing with some of those messages that people are telling themselves of I can't or I shouldn't?

Speaker 1: 20:28

A lot, and the reality is that, for most of us, we've started our professional leadership career at some point and context was in a certain way at that time, and then we continue, keep going, the demands change, the context changes everything, and sometimes we keep using old data to inform how we're going to do things here. So things yeah, I see you nodding so things that we learned that worked well, but happens to be a couple of decades ago may not apply now. We know this from adult development. Yes, sometimes we think, okay, child, adolescent, adult and then adult, it's just this big one, same bucket? No, it isn't.

Speaker 1: 21:14

As you know, if we start reading a bit that and it's not the same path exactly for everyone, but for many people right that your twenties will look different than your thirties, forties, fifties, sixties and so on. And so sometimes we end up using old data which is informing old beliefs and therefore these old beliefs may not be so helpful now and may need to shift. And ways to shift them often involves getting new data, and that's something that does appeal to individuals in business, to high-level professionals, because that's a lot of what most areas of work is based on right Research, or the actual numbers, your financial statements if you need to. So yes, getting new data will sometimes feel uncomfortable. However, if you're truly approaching it from the objectivity of almost like a researcher's mind and openness to just discover what is, then most people will be willing in small ways. We don't need to do the flooding type level of exposure. We could be gradual, but then, yes, then if you experiment, you get new data and then you can adjust and it makes sense.

Speaker 3: 22:24

Marie, I'm just going to geek out for a second with you, Cause it's not that often I get to talk to super smart people.

Speaker 4: 22:29

Um and I'm talking to a doctor.

Speaker 3: 22:34

It's just rare. Um so Nathan can edit this out.

Speaker 3: 22:37

I just read some neuroscience book about two weeks ago and it was about this whole pattern of what the brain does with old data and, like the means and methods of our successes and the ways that we've done, strategy is based on those arcs of development from our early twenties that we've tried to repeat those patterns, and the further away we get from that, the less likely we are to embrace new patterns.

Speaker 3: 23:04

And and his whole point was like that neurological memory is 30 years old, you know, and so so your ability to navigate today is completely diminished because you're unwilling to give yourself the chance to learn something new. What I like about what you're saying is and it resonates with the work that we do there are many business leaders that will welcome new data and new technology to navigate the landscape of the business opportunities, but unwilling to introduce new data and methodologies to interpreting their own internal landscape. So there seems to be like this clash of ideologies and I'm wondering I'm just wondering if there's any connection to that observation and how you work with someone and their values, because that's another key standout from what it is that you're writing about is the importance of values.

Speaker 1: 24:05

Yes, it becomes a bit of a dissonance right between all this logic that I'm applying in the work that I do here, that I'm not applying here in my personal life, or as it relates, for example, in this case, to my resilience. But I would say people become comfortable with trying it here easily If we don't think about it. We'll do it naturally at work, don't do it personally, for all kinds of reasons, some that we've discussed earlier. However, when you put it a bit more clearly on the table in the conversation, then I usually find the dissonance dissolves itself relatively fast because the logic is so clear. They see it fairly fast, so that tends to work. I would say similarly with revisiting their values.

Speaker 1: 24:53

On the individual perspective, again, if I connect this with we're a business over here, we want to, if say, launching a new product or a new service, we want to, yes, learn a lot about the environment and we'll want to connect it with our values as an organization. I mean, from a pure clinical, psychologist perspective you'd say well, yes, hello, but from everyone else's perspective not really. And so we want to. It connects with Linda, your term translator. I've been called a translator many times. Yes, because we just need to be friendly with people's brain and bring it in a way that connects with their frame of reference, with what makes sense, and then it flows much more easily.

Speaker 3: 25:41

What is your observation on a person's emotional health and their likelihood to make those behavioral changes to cope with resilience?

Speaker 1: 25:52

Goes both ways and we've experienced it.

Speaker 1: 25:56

Just looking, if we just think about our past, whatever two, and you know all these other more sort of better ways we are when our emotional health is better.

Speaker 1: 26:25

It also works the other way as we increase our resilience, it will also help our emotional health, and I was going to say emotional intelligence here because it is a concept that often relates to some of what needs to happen if we're going to increase our self-awareness overall as it relates to resilience. That's also a to happen if we're going to increase our self-awareness overall as it relates to resilience. That's also a first step if we want to increase our emotional intelligence. So both are very connected and I think we'll hear even more about the importance of our emotional health as artificial intelligence makes its way even more in our work life, personal lives as well, as we collaborate with AI more as we position ourselves as humans, as a partner to AI at times, and so I think we'll possibly, the same way. Psychological health, resilience, emotional intelligence got more attention with the pandemic. I would not be surprised We'll get, for different reasons, a similar sort of another step change with even more AI in our work lives.

Speaker 3: 27:30

Yeah, I have a question around that too, because with AI and other means of working with our mental health, you mention in your book and I have it highlighted in yellow and I made it red the term leave of absence, because in our work there have been several instances where we've been coaching people in this idea of they need a break. You know like they need some kind of like you say, a leave of absence. Can you just give us some more of a framework and understanding what it is that you are conveying through this term? You know what happens when you need a leave of absence for your mental health.

Speaker 1: 28:17

Yeah, in the book. When I talk about this is I want to because of what we said earlier about how often people will tend to either see themselves as a rock that can handle everything, blah, blah, blah, until they can't, and they see themselves as a wreck, and so they're missing everything that's happening between here, everything that's happening between here. And that's one other way to sometimes convince people to pay attention, because it sometimes will go with the assumption that they can pay will themselves to stay in a toxic environment if they really want to go through an extremely demanding phase, put their head down just for another six months yes, we can whatever and so they think they can override their psychological health, and so this needs to shift in order for them to have way more control over this situation and part of and I will say this sometimes to audiences or individuals I work with. I will say this in various ways, but almost, like you know, I'm sharing this with love, but and I'm mostly a carrot type person than a stick, but this is a stick the reality is that you cannot override it. If you start sliding, you will likely keep sliding. If you keep sliding, there will be a point where you absolutely will not be able to override, and I know enough people who've been there to absolutely tell you that with certainty. We will help you get out of there. I can also tell you that with certainty.

Speaker 1: 29:46

But it's not worth visiting. It's actually highly unpleasant, right. It's painful, it really is, and so it's useful to know for us, it's useful to know for people on our teams, because sometimes we'll see them until we don't, but we'll see them slide down and not quite understand it, and so the more people can understand this piece. That's what I'm doing there, and then I explain also the importance of if you are now getting to the two out of 10 scale of, say, energy and health, you really need to be outside of the workplace.

Speaker 1: 30:23

Number one your health does not allow you to be there anymore. You think you still got it, but you're sending the wrong proposal to the wrong client. This is not the usual falling through the cracks situation. You're hurting your brand. That's often how I'll get them. I wish they did that for health reasons. I often convince people more because I tell them they're going to hurt the brand they've taken years to build and they'll listen to that more Well. Ultimately, it doesn't matter to me why they do what they need to do. But sometimes we need to get to this, to to to understand it.

Speaker 4: 30:57

Well, I appreciate that you use the stick with some humor and but also it seems like a directness that is said with research base, but then also like great care for the people that you're talking to. So I'm imagining myself in an audience hearing you. What is usually the response? I mean, my guess is there would be some wide eyes or it'd be some like oh, she talking to me, or how did she know that I felt this way? What is usually the audience response? Or what do you notice?

Speaker 1: 31:27

Yes, no one's moving, no one's got all eyes eyes, I do have all eyes, but of course it's friendly. We we're there to talk about what we can do and that's what most of what we will do and will be, and even in the book. I initially I did wonder if I would put this chapter earlier or later, or where to put it in the book, because you know you want to be friendly a bit before you get there, but ultimately, I'm really all about all the ways in which we can take action. So that's that. But I do get every single one examples of responses you listed. I get them on LinkedIn personal messages after. That's usually how I hear these things. Like you spoke my language. Every word you said helped me. Yes, I get very much this kind of response, but after, because during their going in and having this moment.

Speaker 3: 32:18

You mentioned team.

Speaker 2: 32:20

Yeah, that's what I was just going to ask.

Speaker 3: 32:21

Yeah, so what is the role of team? And maybe the answer goes both ways what's the role of team in individual resilience and how does individual resilience impact team resilience?

Speaker 1: 32:35

Yes.

Speaker 3: 32:36

Yes.

Speaker 1: 32:37

That's a question probably everyone would want to make sure we talk about, and that's true and I do talk about this as well. That's so important. So, first, we want to keep in mind that the workplace is a system. So we've got individuals, teams, the organization, we've got the country we're in the moment in time, we're in in so many aspects, right, that will be impacting all the parts of this system's resilience psychological resilience, of course, in this case, because, right as we know, in business we can talk about financial resilience and operational resilience. So, looking at psychological resilience in the workplace and specifically the interactions between the individual and the team part of it so individual is a lot of what we focused on so far. The team resilience same definition. We're looking at the ability of the team, in this case, to go through adversity and come out even stronger, even stronger.

Speaker 1: 33:34

Only, what we know from research is that a resilient team is not a team of individuals who are resilient. It will help. It's not going to hurt. However, it's not a given. Here we're really looking at the team, which is an entity in itself. It's almost like when we think of a couple relationship. If we're two people in this relationship, there is me, there is other people and then there's the relationship between us. That's almost like a third entity, right? So same thing here. The team is an entity in itself, beyond individuals in it. There are many characteristics we could look at there, but yes, they will influence individuals' resilience as a team itself.

Speaker 1: 34:08

Two things most importantly emerge from research.

Speaker 1: 34:12

One is the importance of clarity on goals, and sometimes, as leaders, we assume, yeah, obviously everyone knows, but no, the project we were working on the past six months is different from where we are at now, and it will practically never hurt if you start every monthly meeting with a review of what's our goal these days, Because, as you do this, everyone has an individual role in it.

Speaker 1: 34:33

But we know from research, if you start every monthly meeting with a review of what's our goal these days, because, as you do this, everyone has an individual role in it, but we know from research we will naturally adapt to meet the goal If we're all really clear on what it is making the team more resilient. The other piece critical to team resilience is psychological safety, which, if we were to summarize it in a nutshell, it's that ability that, if I'm in a team of 50 people, 49 people are saying something. I want to say something entirely different. I can, I will, I'll feel comfortable, respected, protected, welcomed in bringing this up, which, again, if we bring back the AI in the context and all the ethics questions and so many questions AI will bring, we want person 49 or person 50 in a group like this to say it if they think an entirely different thing, and so team resilience is very important for that reason as well.

Speaker 3: 35:25

Thank you.

Speaker 2: 35:26

So, mh, I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the double helix, because I find that to be such a great metaphor for how we go through life and the idea of like your personal life and your professional life kind of spinning around each other, and then these four pillars in the middle talk a little bit, maybe set up, you know, because if people are listening to this, what does that mean? How is that used? How does that help one develop a strategic approach to resilience?

Speaker 1: 35:51

Yes, yes. Well, this emerged because I was looking for visuals. I love you know different ways of communicating things, and because I do keynotes and all. I was looking for models and then came across just the double helix, and so we're familiar with, you know, those two strands on each side and then the rungs in the middle, and then, the more I started looking at this, I'll tell you how I labeled this, but I also then was reminded how, in nature, trees and plants will put themselves in this kind of shape to build their resilience, and so there were just many, many points that made this work.

Speaker 1: 36:30

So what I talk about in the book here, if we can think of it this way, the two sides of the double helix I'm calling. I'm saying it's as if one side is your personal life and the other one is professional, and I'm using that DNA image because it is my point as unique as you in this moment. That's why being strategic is not Linda's plan, it's not going to be MH's plan or Nathan or Brian, it's each of us in this moment. So there is this unique aspect that's critical. So if it's going to be very unique to us, then we want to weave in personal and professional, even if your focus is entirely on professional improvement, optimization and all this, yes, and the way to do that is to make sure you're looking at the personal side as well, because emotions don't have lanes, Okay. So where are you wanting the two sides? Enough with this, but that's an important piece.

Speaker 1: 37:25

The four rungs Start with your values. There's no other way to keep things personal, customized to you, than starting from this, and I guide people on how to do this. It's not complicated, but it's important, so that then, looking realistically at your sources of demands, both in the personal and professional, your sources of supply, what brings you energy, increases your resilience and then looking at your context much similar to what we would do in business looking at in a SWOT analysis, strength, weaknesses internally, and then opportunities and threats externally. So here it's doing a SWOT on you. So what internally is helping or not so much and I can give you examples if we want. But and what's externally helping or not so much on the resilient side, which then leads to your custom resilient strategic plan.

Speaker 4: 38:18

I like that. That's good.

Speaker 2: 38:20

And one thing I like about your book is you have examples like almost worksheets in the back to help people kind of work through this on their own. Give them some examples. So it seems very helpful helpful.

Speaker 3: 38:38

So, marie, one of the other things that we want to ask you is about your perspective on positivity bias, because we know that's in some context, in some business context, the positivity bias is almost like a trigger word that people have a very strong emotional reaction towards. So what is your perspective on positivity bias and resilience?

Speaker 1: 38:54

Yeah, it became something that needed to be named for Medieval to help someone shift their perspective on what's going on. Right, and naming it and welcoming it to some degree. And because the reality is no one and I rarely say this, but no one will get into senior leadership roles, high performing roles, that kind of thing, without having some degree of minimizing demands, right Of saying it's not too big, I can do this, it's not that bad, it's not going to take me forever, it's not going to take over my life. You know all these whatever and so, and it's to some degree adaptive.

Speaker 1: 39:40

Without this we would not have pushed forward. We would have said, well, no, that is clearly unreasonable, I'm not doing this right. So we pushed and it, in many cases, cases had many positive impacts. So we recognize this, it's fantastic, we want to keep it. However, if we keep pushing this to the extreme, just like so many things, to the extreme, only broccoli is not good for you. You do need the variety, right.

Speaker 1: 40:06

So push to the extreme, you get to a point where it's not helpful and the way it shows up is that people, when looking at, say, their list of demands, they'll put like two or three things from the work perspective and I'll say, okay, stay there. And they'll usually put two or three things that they don't like, that are difficult, challenging. But then there could be other demands at work that are positive. You've wanted them, but they are still representing demands. They need to be listed. That new promotion you just got?

Speaker 1: 40:36

Then, on the personal side, well, of course I'm going to help my partner who's dealing, say, or who was dealing with a health issue, so I cannot list that here. Yes, you have to. It's recognizing it. That's all it's. Of course you'll do it. Yes, it's wonderful and it is a demand. And so then it allows us to have much more visibility. Otherwise, it's as if you were in business and said I'm not going to look at the financial statements unless something is in extreme trouble. I don't want realistic information, I just want to know like the extreme. Well, no, we all want a mini blip, a little trend. We want to see it early, right, Same thing here. We want to look at all these things early.

Speaker 4: 41:19

So helpful. Your work, I imagine, is providing healing to not just individuals but to teams and organizations, and for me, I just I feel inspired listening to you and experiencing you and your approach, and so thank you so much for being a part of of this. Do you have a nathan? Do you have a final question?

Speaker 2: 41:43

because I feel like well, it's not a question more of a comment of I. I also appreciate how you you present them materially in the book, not as uh do this and then great, you'll be resilient, but like I think you have. I was trying to find it here in the PDF, like did you have? Like daily actions and like monthly and quarterly. It's like the idea is to revisit this often because you're not, it's not a one and done, and then you're you're good to go.

Speaker 2: 42:08

It's an ongoing thing, and so I appreciate that you you acknowledge that you recognize that you encourage people to revisit it as situations change and, um, so it seems like a great resource for a lot of people for throughout their time in life, I guess.

Speaker 3: 42:24

Yes, so thank you, and I want to say thank you for I don't know how I'm going to say this. Here we go, nathan, don't like that's maybe.

Speaker 2: 42:36

Sure Go ahead.

Speaker 3: 42:38

Do that I know she just met us. I'm trying to take off the Brian thing, do. Brian? I'm grateful that you have chosen to step into the arena where you're wrestling with the research and trying to break it down so that your expertise in these fields can be directly applied to people's lives, no matter where they're coming from. As practitioners, as researchers, we are trying to do the same thing and we know it's not an easy task, and when linda said translator earlier, then you caught that word. We really believe that we are trying to translate this scientific work, or this mindful work, into people's lives. They can put it in their pockets and take it with them so that they can begin journeys of transformation for themselves. So I'm recognizing and thanking you for the task that you've chosen to shoulder so that people's lives can be transformed, and so I understand that that's pioneering work. It leads you to Northern Calgary, but the work that you put in.

Speaker 3: 43:44

I'm just grateful that you are now in a place where you're leaning into that so that the rest of us can benefit from the work. So thank you very much for that commitment.

Speaker 1: 43:53

Oh well, thank you. Thank you so much, brian, and all of you. It was an absolute pleasure.

Speaker 2: 43:58

Thank you for listening to the Leadership Vision Podcast, our show helping you build positive team culture. Our consulting firm has been doing this for the past 25 years so that leaders are mentally engaged and emotionally healthy. I just want to send out a huge thank you, thank you. Thank you to Dr Peltier for joining us on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 44:16

There's a lot of this episode that I actually cut out just a lot of banter and fun back and forth that I didn't want to make it be an hour and a half long, but she was delightful to talk to, to get more information about her and her book and maybe I don't know booking her for speaking engagement or just watching some of her videos online.

Speaker 2: 44:33

You can go to her website, which is drmarie-helencom, and learn more about her. If you're driving or you didn't want to write that down, you can go to our website, where we'll have links there as well, which is leadershipvisionconsultingcom. Thank you again for listening. If you found this episode helpful or any of our other content helpful, we would love it if you could leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, or just join our email newsletter and, probably most importantly, send this to a friend, send this to a colleague, send this to someone that you think could benefit from this information or from growing deeper into their strengths, into the strengths of their team or the strengths of their entire organization. I'm Nathan Freeberg and, on behalf of our entire team, thanks for listening.