Can mastering heroic dungeons in Cataclysm really be as daunting as it seems? Join us at the Pig and Whistle Inn as we debunk the myths and share practical tips to ease your journey through Azeroth’s most talked-about expansion. We'll discuss why the fear of being kicked from groups is often overblown and share personal anecdotes to help you navigate these challenges confidently. Plus, we'll dive into crowd control mechanics, addressing common misconceptions and offering strategies to help you shine in your next heroic run.
Wondering how PvP dynamics have evolved from Wrath of the Lich King to Cataclysm? Tune in as we explore the shift towards cooldown trading and more strategic gameplay. We’ll tackle the divided community opinions and discuss why some players yearn for the simpler mechanics of earlier expansions. Additionally, we'll highlight the ongoing issue of low-quality dungeon groups and uncover how overpowered gear has masked this long-standing problem. Whether you’re a seasoned player or just hitting level 85, this episode promises valuable insights to enhance your World of Warcraft experience.
Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!
Can mastering heroic dungeons in Cataclysm really be as daunting as it seems? Join us at the Pig and Whistle Inn as we debunk the myths and share practical tips to ease your journey through Azeroth’s most talked-about expansion. We'll discuss why the fear of being kicked from groups is often overblown and share personal anecdotes to help you navigate these challenges confidently. Plus, we'll dive into crowd control mechanics, addressing common misconceptions and offering strategies to help you shine in your next heroic run.
Wondering how PvP dynamics have evolved from Wrath of the Lich King to Cataclysm? Tune in as we explore the shift towards cooldown trading and more strategic gameplay. We’ll tackle the divided community opinions and discuss why some players yearn for the simpler mechanics of earlier expansions. Additionally, we'll highlight the ongoing issue of low-quality dungeon groups and uncover how overpowered gear has masked this long-standing problem. Whether you’re a seasoned player or just hitting level 85, this episode promises valuable insights to enhance your World of Warcraft experience.
Hope you all enjoy and hope you relate to any of these stories. And I will speak to you all in the next episode!
Thank you, hello and welcome to the Pig and Whistle Tales from Azeroth. As always here at the Pig and Whistle Inn in Stormwind, I go through a variety of subjects with regards to World of Warcraft. So grab a bottle or a pint, sit back and enjoy this midweek episode. We will be going over Cataclysm and I know that the War of Inn has had a launch date. We'll get to that on the Friday, trust me. We'll be talking about the War of Inn as and when possible, but this midweek I'm going to be going over Cataclysm, mainly the Cataclysm forums, and definitely debating some points on there that need debating, because some of them are stupid, some of them are funny, some of them are actually quite intelligent, but they're very few and far between. Let's get into it. I've got a few lined up for us here Now. These are very small points, but I do want to dive into them.
Speaker 1:
So I'm scared, to be honest, is the title of this one. I'm a level 82 on my shaman and I'm scared to reach 85 and gear up for heroics. After all the horror stories I've heard about people getting booted left and right, I'm wondering how people even get heroics done. If I wanted to play roulette, I'd go to Vegas, ok. So I need to state that I have not seen anyone being kicked from a dungeon and the reason if someone did get kicked that I can't remember it would have been via loot, it would have been via DCing, it wouldn't be via people just being bad at the game or anything like that. Now, that can happen, don't get me wrong, but I have had so many DPS that do such low DPS. I've had a mage that did TBC numbers worth of DPS throughout the entire instance, by the way, not just on one boss, not just on one pack, the entire instance. They didn't get kicked. Okay, because it's something where you learn your class, you gear up, you do multiple different things. It's not something where like, oh my God, we've got to speed run this and stuff. People are still learning their class, their tactics, their rotation, you know everything. I think that this guy has heard horror stories from, maybe, guildies and blown it out of proportion, because I have not seen anyone get kicked. In all of my heroics and I've done heroics on multiple characters already I've done loads of different activities just in dungeons alone and I have seen no one get kicked. Essentially, so I don't think anyone should be worried about doing heroics.
Speaker 1:
As long as you're trying your best, you are going to be fine. And if you are a class that can kick, please kick All right. If you kick, you'll gain favor with your healer. Your healer will not want to kick you. You know all of that sort of business. You know there's many different things that you can do rather than just damage. But if you're doing the mechanics right, even if you're not, you still won't get kicked. Just make sure you've got a defensive ready just in case you fuck up a mechanic. Please use your kicks. Please use many different things and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1:
There is honestly not a lot of people that get kicked. The only reason this person hears about you know, oh my God, so many people are getting kicked is because you don't hear the stories about people or groups who don't kick someone, when you've always. If someone is in a guild and they have to kick someone, you'll always hear in the guild oh my God, this rogue was so awful, we had to kick him. He wasn't kicking, he wasn't doing any damage, he wasn't doing anything at all. He, ninja, pulled all of that. If you go for an entire dungeon and no one gets kicked, you don't hear in your guild chat oh my god, no one got kicked from this dungeon, it was amazing, do you? You just don't hear that. So you're always hearing the complete, like like one side of the story. You never hear the good parts of the heroic dungeons and stuff. So you know, take it with a pinch of salt all of the stuff where it's like, oh my God, we had to kick this guy Because, yeah, you probably did, and people do get kicked. But you're not hearing the ten stories where the group just powered through, did everything and then left at the end of the dungeon. You know you're not hearing them stories. So please don't be afraid to get to level 85. Please just do what you can and you know, make sure you're kind to other people in the dungeons. All right, don't be a dick. Essentially what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:
Next one Now this one is crazy to me. So CC is getting out of control. Put all stuns, roots, freezes and fears on the same DR or at least increase the CD of these abilities. A single mage can keep me CC for 20 plus seconds and a priest can fear me like every 25 seconds and deal damage to me while I sit a full field without breaking. Don't even get me started on rogues that only have like five different forms of CC and warlocks with their like four different fears slash stuns that don't share DR and never break. This is getting ridiculous. Please, blizzard, let me play the game.
Speaker 1:
Firstly, warlocks have one fear. I'm not sure of how the terror DRs's with that fear, but I'm pretty sure it does um. Secondly, warlocks do have a stun or coil which shares dr with a sheep. Um, so that isn't a fear, really, that is an incapacitate. Is it an incapacitate? Is it an incapacitate? I forget what a sheep is classed as, but nevertheless they don't have four different fears Slash stuns.
Speaker 1:
Now this person is complaining about CC in Cataclysm. Okay, cataclysm, cc from I think the Burning Crusade onwards has always been the same, apart from Dragonflight. Okay, because I think Dragonflight is when CC got nerfed and what I mean by the CC getting nerfed is blind went from an eight second like CC, to six seconds. You know that's what I mean by nerf. They reduce all cc like down um in terms of the numerical value of it. Now, if this guy wants to go and play some pvp that has less cc, go to retail, okay. Now I'm just going to reverse this, because people say oh you know, go back to retail. Go to retail if you really want less cc. Do it like people mock retail because it's like I'll go back to retail. Go to retail if you really want less cc. Do it like people mock retail because it's like I'll go back to retail and all that shit.
Speaker 1:
Retail is actually good, like people. Just don't give it the time of day, because people get overwhelmed or they're not as good as they were, or you might just not enjoy it, which is fair enough. I completely understand that, and you might enjoy classic more. But don't be a dick, because retail is a good game and just because you don't like it doesn't mean that other people will. Some people hate classic, but you don't see people going oh my god, go back to classic, do you no? Strange how, like, everyone complains that it's the people who play retail who are the toxic ones, but the people who play classic are the ones saying everyone to you know, piss off, go back to retail and stuff, and are the toxic ones. It seems very weird how that, you know, happens and no one looks in on that, isn't it? But that's getting off the point.
Speaker 1:
Um, um, stuns, roots and freezes. Well, freeze is a root and it is on a dr with itself. So you know, stuns are always on the same dr, whether it be a shockwave, whether it be cheap shot. And I believe cheap shot and kidney are on the same dr now, if I'm not mistaken. Um. So I don't know what this guy's on about. I'm pretty sure wrath isath is when Kidney Shot and Cheap Shot were still on a separate DR. But yeah, look, if you want reduced CC and PvP, go to retail and try it, please try it.
Speaker 1:
As for the fears, I can't guarantee know, taking damage in a fear won't break, because fear in itself is really weird. I really do think it's weird because this should break to some sort of damage. It does seem like against me. It can absorb so much damage before breaking. But when I do like a single hit of like a fell hunter pet in retail or classic, then suddenly it breaks instantly and it's just. You know one of them things. It's an rng based thing, um.
Speaker 1:
But look, cc has always been a problem in the earlier stages of world of warcraft. But if you're complaining about cataclysm, let's go back to classic. Wow, okay, I kept people in a polymorph as a mage for about 40 seconds straight. Okay, that shouldn't be a thing. I kept them cc'd for a minute, yeah, at points, because you polymorph them, you root them. Then you can just do nothing. You can sit there in an ice block, do nothing. They can't do anything to you, it's effectively cc. You can come out, root them again and then polymorph them again, you know, and, like you can effectively keep people in cc forever in classic. But people don't complain about classic cc, do they? Because oh, classic was a perfect game. It wasn't. It really really wasn't.
Speaker 1:
Pvp was the most biased and match-up thing ever. If I was a warrior and saw a mage and I didn't have a free action potion, I may as well just lied on the ground and just died. Then. And there, because you're not going to win against a mage, you, you're just not, they root you and then it's Frostbolt, kona, cold Fire, blast and that's it. Like GG's, essentially. If you survive that, then well done. You can charge the mage with your. You know what is it? Interrupt? No, not Interrupt. You know the charge. That's in berserker stance, that one. But then the mace just blinks and then suddenly you're back to square one where you're waddling because you've got a frost bolt on you and you're, you know, 15, 20 yards away from the target now, so you're just not going to win.
Speaker 1:
So people complained about cataclysm and cc there and you know the matchups here. But classic was so bad with it but you didn't hear people saying about it, did you? Because it's draped in this nostalgic and these rose tinted goggles. You know people need to wake up. Classic isn't perfect, but you can't say that cataclysm shit, essentially because of the amount of CC when Classic was a thing. Okay, if you complain that Classic CC was over the top and then you still complain that Cataclysm CC is over the top, that's fair enough, like I'm completely fair, like in that regard. But if you don't complain that Classic CC is stupid, you can't complain that cataclysm cc is stupid. Okay, it's completely ridiculous and like null and void essentially. Anyways, the next one, now this one.
Speaker 1:
I want to keep on the topic of pvp, but wrath, pvp was better, better. Pvp seems awful, dps damage feels unimpactful, while healers and tanks are hot, nigh invincible. Rogues are annoying, as always, and everything just boils down to cooldown trading. Not sure why this expat is held so high on a pedestal as it was. Wrath pvp felt better in every way. Okay, if you watched wrath pvp by people who were good at the game, like pros playing Wrath PvP, there were games that went on for two hours plus One singular arena game that can go on for two hours plus, and that's because there's no dampening. People just drink whenever they can. It's essentially who runs out of drinks first. Damage-wise, I don't know. It always felt unimpactful to me, wrath damage, whereas here I feel like I can have big bursts of damage, like if I get the career or, you know, if I get good CC, we can get good like setups going. You know all of that.
Speaker 1:
This is where healers became good enough to sort of do something to like against damage essentially. And this is where cooldowns started to trade in pvp. In wrath pvp it was okay, I'm running in starfall, all right, now I afk for one minute, that's it. And now I press starfall again. Now I try and kill. Okay, calm, afk again. You know it's that sort of thing. This is where cooldown trading started to become a big thing in PvP and I just don't. Wrath was nice, but I don't think Wrath is as good as people make it out to be, and that's coming from someone who genuinely did love Wrath like PvP.
Speaker 1:
But I think Cataclysm moved more into that cooldown-based system where you've got to trade certain things that people pop like offensive abilities. So bark skin if people were using like blade storm on me, or if a mage deep freeze me, I would, you know, pop a bark skin, anything like that. You would actually have to trade your cooldown smartly rather than just zug zug. I press this because it glows and lights up and because I've got nothing else to press. I may as well press a defensive. That kind of thing. It makes no sense.
Speaker 1:
And cataclysm is where pvp starts to become retail pvp, and I think that's where people hated it, because you couldn't just randomly kill people. You had to do some sort of setup in order to do so. But you know people will like what they want and personally, I think Cata PvP will be really enjoyable, and I've been enjoying it a lot myself. I think that there's a lot more to it and I think that the skill of the player actually comes into play, a lot more so than it does in previous expansions. So I think that's what a lot of people don't like, because, well, being straight up, they aren't as good as they think they are genuinely. I don't think they are, um, but yeah, that's my point of view on that anyway.
Speaker 1:
The last one as a healer, I've noticed the quality of groups has gone way down. No one interrupts anything, there's no focus on targets. Do we get through the dungeons? Okay, sure. Does it make my life incredibly hard and slow things down when my mana is drained? Also, sure, what gives with this player base? I figured all the catter peeps have been playing for years and should know this.
Speaker 1:
Okay, who are the caterpeeps? I don't know who the Cataclysm people are. Are they people from retail? Are they people from Cataclysm private servers? Are they classic players? Classic players don't evolve with the game. They don't. They evolve a lot less with the game, hence why they enjoy classic because it's a lot simpler. The raid boss mechanics are simpler, everything is simpler. And that because it's a lot simpler. The raid boss mechanics are simpler, everything is simpler. And that's why classic players like classic because it is simple.
Speaker 1:
People don't want to have to deal with this, like you know, retail level of raiding or having to use their interrupts constantly or anything along them lines, because it's a lot more for them. It's too much for them. It's too, whether it's intense or they just want to chill when raiding. You know anything like along them sort of lines. People need to realize the quality of groups has always been low. It always has been. But because we've had eight months of icc, the gear heavily outweighs dungeons. It really heavily, heavily outweighs dungeons at the end of Wrath Classic. So you didn't need these interrupts, you didn't need these tactics, you didn't need anything. You had one DPS that would blast everything and your dungeon would be complete within 15 minutes. Yeah, that's how Wrath Dungeons worked towards the end.
Speaker 1:
People don't remember the earlier stages of dungeons in the alpha dungeons or the beta dungeons. No, people only go off of the gamma dungeons. And when ICC was released, when everyone's gear just spiked massively. So it's crazy to think that, oh my God, the groups have just gone down way like so much more. No, the gear has just equaled the dungeon and people have gotten so lazy in pressing their interrupts, their damage rotation, their defensives because they've just been steamrolling gamma dungeons.
Speaker 1:
That makes no sense that you know the quality of groups gone way down. It's always been low. You just haven't seen it because it's bandaged up by gear. That's it. It's like a very small bandage over a giant crack in the wall. It's not gonna hold forever, is it? If if it's helping at all. So you know that's the difference and people need to understand that. The quality has always been low, but gear has always solved that, okay, has always, always solved that.
Speaker 1:
At the beginning of tbc, heroics were really difficult, weren't they? And yet gear out leveled that the heroics. If you've got a good enough gear like group, you just blast through it. You wouldn't care, would you? There's so many different things that you know save these groups from being bad. But people just don't realize that. You know it's just a gear thing and people get lazy with their rotation essentially. So I don't know. People need to understand that it isn't just cataclysm specific. It's always been there in classic and in retail. But uh, in retail you have mythic plus, which obviously scales with your gear, kind of. So you know, you know you can't do that with Classic, can you? But that is where I'll end this episode. Thank you all very much for listening. Do check out all of the socials down below Constant stuff happening over there. But once again, thank you all very much for listening and go, avala friend, goodbye all. Thank you.
