The Good Listening To Show: Stories of Distinction & Genius

Unpacking Brand Success with Brilliant Brand Director, Mychael Owen (aka 'Captain Brand'!) Raging Against the Beige & Always Wearing Red - A Journey through Character, Creativity & how to be more 'Interesting'

• Chris Grimes - Facilitator. Coach. Motivational Comedian

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"Interestingly, the best way to get people more interested in you, is to do-and-be more interesting!" Please welcome Mychael Owen, wise and enigmatic Associate Brand Director and author of a brilliant Newsletter called "50odd: The diary of a man that stopped waiting" As he says on his https://www.mychael.co.uk website, he's the Brand Director that you should have had from day 1 but didn't!"

Ever pondered what makes a brand compelling and successful? Mychael Owen, associate brand director and owner of 'Always Wear Red', is our guide in this enlightening conversation about the significant role of branding in a business. Mychael regales us with his unique perspective on how character, context, and creativity can captivate both internal and external audiences, shaping businesses into better, more interesting entities. 

This journey isn't just about business, it delves into the personal experiences that shaped Mychael. From tales of his upbringing in Manchester to the impact of his stepfather and step-grandfather, each story intertwines with his brand-building philosophy. There's insight to be gleaned as he unpacks how unresolved anger towards his mother became a catalyst for self-improvement. We also navigate the turbulent waters of celebrity impressions, analyzing the stories of George Michael, Matthew Perry, and the profound influence of Dave Trot, a business communication genius. 

As we steer the conversation towards Mychael's reflections on language, parenting, and legacy, he asserts a refreshing belief that being different is more impactful than just being better. Michael's captivating perspective on life, his inspirations, and his experiences are bound to leave you pondering your own brand and personal journey. Join us as we step into the shoes of one of the most intriguing brand directors in the business, and maybe, just maybe, you might find the inspiration to be different too.

Tune in next week for more stories of 'Distinction & Genius' from The Good Listening To Show 'Clearing'. If you would like to be my Guest too then you can find out HOW via the different 'series strands' at 'The Good Listening To Show' website.

Don't forget to SUBSCRIBE & REVIEW wherever you get your Podcasts :)

Thanks for listening!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes, the storytelling show that features the clearing, where all good questions come to get asked and all good stories come to be told, and where all my guests have two things in common they're all creative individuals and all with an interesting story to tell. There are some lovely storytelling metaphors a clearing, a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 5-4-3-2-1, some alchemy, some gold, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare and a cake. So it's all to play for. So, yes, welcome to the Good Listening To Show your life and times with me, chris Grimes. Are you sitting comfortably here? Then we shall begin. Get quite literally in, linked in, and welcome to another very exciting episode of the Good Listening To Show stories of distinction and genius, where I invite movers, makers, shakers, mavericks, influencers and also personal heroes into a clearing or serious happy place of their choosing to all share with us their stories of distinction and genius. And I'm absolutely delighted to welcome Ann Enigma.

Speaker 1:

Mr Michael Owen, even how he spells the name Michael is enigmatic. And just to blow some really happy smoke at you, you were bigged up by a previous guest on my show, mr Ian Thacker, who may well be listening as we speak and he went off on one for about three minutes extolling the virtues of always wear red. Three whole minutes he went off on and he is the proud owner, and please do tell us what always wear red set out to do. Ian Thacker is the owner of Jumper Number 21,. Please, like cashier number four, please, because you only did 50 in your limited run, and limited editions was where he got intrigued by you. I've nearly stopped giving you the intro, but you are an enigmatic sort of I call you Captain Brand, since I've met you. Actually you are, well, you do, brand. So hello, michael, I'll stop whittering. And how's morale? What's your story of the day, please?

Speaker 2:

My story of the day is I was up quite early. Isabel got ready for her day back at school so cuddled her for a bit. She thinks that I cry all day when she's at school. I just tell her, because if she cries about going to school, I said, well, as soon as you get to school you stop crying. So I tell her that I cry all day until she gets home. So I have to remember to pretend to start crying just as she comes home again at about four o'clock, that's been my morning Wonderful.

Speaker 1:

So when you open the door, you've got to go. Oh, you're home.

Speaker 2:

Marvelous, and how old is Isabel.

Speaker 1:

I'm assuming she's not in her 20s, from what you just described 25.

Speaker 2:

No, she's seven years old. So this upside down life, I'm 55. My other half, lisa, is 70 something I don't know she's now she's 52. And Isabel is seven. So we left it late.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and I find that very relatable. I think she's 52, my good lady wife, Goodly, Mrs Grimes, and I left it a bit late too, so you're extremely welcome. I'll just blow a little bit more happy smoke at you. You're the brand director you should have had from day one, which is why you position yourself as an associate brand director. So you're really about railing against the beige, I think. That's hence where you know always where red comes from. So if somebody asks you and I'm about to do this for you you're welcome. That rather clunky networking question Hello, what do you do? What's your favorite way of avoiding or answering that question? Michael Owen.

Speaker 2:

It's not a you know, I have. I almost have to say I'm an associate brand director, because each of the three words are useful. Associate means I don't cost as much as somebody who's in the company.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Brand. It's that strange little bit that wraps around all business communications really, and the director bit means I sit next to the people who are leading. I can't, I can't be anywhere else. So associate brand director, so I actually. In short, I talk about brand. Rich businesses are generally rich businesses they really are and there are lots of frustrated, hardworking, really good businesses that get really annoyed because the better brand beats them, Invariably the better brand will be the better business, and that's quite annoying. So my answer is well, be the better brand then.

Speaker 1:

And I love the inverse of that brand poor entities, in which case they are poor for all the right reasons as well.

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, and frustrated because it's like why is the cut through that? It's because you're missing the brand bit. What's the brand? Well, that's what I do.

Speaker 1:

And also you are brought to us by the word interesting. I've had lovely conversations with you, teeing you up to get to this point where we're here now, live in the show, but you use the word interesting a lot, even on your websites, and I'm the director that will make you more interesting to people both inside and outside your business. And you do use the word interesting a lot too, as in, and even your sort of strap line. If I can just quote you interestingly, the best way to get people more interested in you is to do and be more interesting. So that's even on your LinkedIn headline actually.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I get bored, right. Well, I just get bored, that's a me thing. But I also think that most businesses are very boring, not least because most of the early conversations I have, chris, are my goodness, I've worked so hard to be kind of on a par with the people all around me, but people are not interested in me and my business and I'll say, well, that's because you're kind of pretty much on a par with everybody else around you. That's not the goal, that's the starting line, not the finishing line. Once you're at the start line, which is be at least as good as everybody else around you, find out your magic and then let's build your point of difference and build all the interesting stuff around why you're different and better than they are. Of course you're going to blend in. Of course no one's going to be interested in you because you're just not very interesting.

Speaker 1:

Beautifully put. And, john, you just tell us a bit more about Always Wear Red and the limited edition thing that Ian Thacker was so struck by Because it was intriguing, yeah.

Speaker 2:

Ian's very kind to me, and what I'm about to say I said to Ian as well Always, wear Red is a silly, silly, silly business, because we mastered what to do and then we stopped. So we did the exact opposite of what we were supposed to do, because I was so lucky to work with some of the United Kingdom's very best makers my heroes, including Nigel Cable, for example, was very kind to me and helped me to understand how he made stuff, back from when he worked with Paul Smith right at his very, very beginning. So yeah, the short story is over.

Speaker 2:

About six or seven years we put in a six figure sum to develop, working with the best silks, the best knitted cashmere, the best hand knitted merino, the best leather product, the best dough skin caps, and the caps were all made in Yorkshire, the cashmere's all knitted in Scotland and the silk's all woven in London, because that's where the best in the world live. So yeah, I mastered one particular line that interested me most, which was the hand knits. We made only 50, as you quite rightly said 30 jumpers, 20 scarves. People who own the jumpers include Gav, the founder of Gifgaff, faytoza. So Faytoza from Steps, did you have a poster of Steps on your bedroom wall, chris? I don't know.

Speaker 1:

But I remember H.

Speaker 2:

There's one of the names so there you go, but there are some really cool people who own the hand knits. As I say, and as you said, we only made 50. But then the silly thing I did, of course, was stop, spend five or six years mastering something and then stop. And the reason I stopped was because it became all about scale and speed, and those are the two things that I just didn't want to do.

Speaker 1:

So I was a little silly but interesting.

Speaker 2:

Silly and expensive. And interesting Because you put a six-figure sum in over five or six years and you get the money back. But then you work out your hourly rate and it's about 8p.

Speaker 1:

Congratulations. That's wonderful, and Ian Thacker did say. By the way, just to give you one cool fact, he said it's almost become a cult because of conventions, where people introduce themselves to each other by the number of their jumper. Hello, I'm jumper number 21,. Please.

Speaker 2:

We never made more than 24 of anything and if you've got one, try and live about two or 300 years and it'll be worth a few quid.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and by then there's an interesting through line there in being bespoke, because obviously you want to be a bespoke brand consultant. So it's not like you've got clients sort of falling out your ears. You've got a very distinctive tribe of your vibe attracted to your tribe, according to where you decide to put your energy as to who you find interesting.

Speaker 2:

I'm lucky because I make this about the same money, maybe a little bit more. Now I work with three or four clients for between two and six days a month. That's what I do. In the past I had a business that turned over a couple of million quid, 30 people and a big wage bill and 57,000 quid a year in rent and it was like, well, where did all that money go?

Speaker 1:

And where did all that happiness go as well?

Speaker 2:

It was hard. That was from 30 to about 45. Now, 55, 10 years on, there's just me doing what I do, and I prefer it.

Speaker 1:

And I hope you will mention 50 odd, by the way, your newsletter, a diary of a man that stopped waiting, and the question on everyone's lips what did you stop waiting for, please?

Speaker 2:

Brilliant question. I stopped waiting for the thing that I felt I was born to do appearing, because I think a lot of people do that. They go. I'll just stay here until that thing I was born to do. Either I'm brave enough to do it or it kind of arrives from over there, so I just went, I'll just stop. I made room because when I employed 30 people and ran four brands all sat by side by side, which I did I had no room to think or room for things to happen actually. So I think the best answer to your question is I kind of made room and tried things and the things I feel most heartfelt about doing. I started doing writing, for example, which is what the log was because I thought can I write?

Speaker 2:

And I thought I don't know if I can write, so I'll write and then, if I can write well, people will start to read it and at its peak, about 10,000 people a day read it.

Speaker 1:

Yes, by the way, it's on brand for you because it is. I'm discovering it's interesting on the daily and I howled like a drain this morning because of a quote that you said Liam Gallagher said about the new Beatles record. Do you want to just share that and please give us the full quote? I think it's brilliant and it made me laugh for quite some time. It made my breakfast, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Before I try and say it, have you got it written in front of you?

Speaker 1:

I have.

Speaker 2:

OK cool. Well, it's something to do with shit in a handbag, isn't it? It is OK cool. The point was, of course, this quote and if you don't mind, you're going to have to read it because I can't remember it verbatim, but it's the comment he made about the Beatles, you know, commenting on their new single, which was just two or three days ago. Wasn't it called Now and Then? So what did he say?

Speaker 1:

Well, in terms of the uniqueness of a brand, and your point with what you said about this was the fact that only he could get away with saying this because it's so idiosyncratically on his brand. If you like, you said it in a more interesting way than that, but he said in his mad-footed way the Beatles could shit in my handbag and I'd still hide my polo mints in there.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, I just like the way that Liam Gallagher doesn't well.

Speaker 1:

He doesn't mince words, shall we say.

Speaker 2:

No, but it's him, isn't it? Have you got? Oh yeah, of course it was him who said that. Who said that?

Speaker 1:

It's contextually specific. That's what's so interesting about brand. It's got to be interesting and contextual.

Speaker 2:

And characterful because I think a lot of businesses are just not characterful. You know, one time I was with a client and there were three closest competitors. Switch all of their homepage copy around. They didn't notice and we actually did that.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

Gosh, they just don't notice because it was all the same old cack really that no one really cares about.

Speaker 1:

Hence, always, we're red rage against the beige, I think Brilliant. Yeah, yeah, it is my great pleasure and honor to be creating you through the construct of the Good Listening 2 show Stories of Sinks and Genius. There's going to be a clearing a tree, a juicy storytelling exercise called 54321. There's going to be some alchemy, some gold, a couple of random squirrels, a cheeky bit of Shakespeare, a golden baton and a cake, hurrah. So it's also playful. So I'm going to curate you through. It's not a memory test, I promise I'll do this gently. So first of all, energetically, the whole construct happens in a clearing or serious happy place of your choosing Michael Owen. So where does Michael Owen go to get clutter-free, inspirational and able to think?

Speaker 2:

The romantic answer is this Are you ready for this romantic answer? So we've just moved to a house where at the back there's a little river and right next to the little river, at the back of my house, there's a Chesterfield and it's sat there with the river doing that. What's the word? Flowing, bundulating, bundulating. Sat on the Chesterfield, not on a smoking jacket. I'm not going to go that far with a pipe.

Speaker 1:

So did you put the Chesterfield there? Is it a Ches Lange or a sort of?

Speaker 2:

a Potofa. It's an actual Chesterfield right and it's got a cover on it so it doesn't get too yucky and mucky.

Speaker 1:

You put it there. You didn't find it, we did.

Speaker 2:

But the reason I'm saying this is a romantic concept is because the real reason it's there, because we can't get it in the house. So we moved, we moved here, so we can't get the set in the house. But, as I say, if I shift in the paradigm again, the romantic answer is it's a bit cold out there and it needs sorting out, but the romantic answer is on the Chesterfield, by the river, at the back of my house. The factual answer is in Caffe Nero.

Speaker 1:

Another brand, but we're not talking about Caffe Nero. But you're quite right. And also the Comedian of Me can't help noticing that it's the inverse of the ship in the bottle. You've got the Chesterfield in the house Is the way you're going to solve that. So someday you've got to find a way of getting the Chesterfield in the house, but maybe you haven't.

Speaker 2:

Well, I can't get it in, but we've tried every which way. Caffe Nero let dogs in. I've got a little dog called Frank and the coffee's quite nice. So Caffe Nero is the truthful answer, lovely.

Speaker 1:

So I'm more inclined to go with the romantic answer of being on a chef's lounge. But let's have a Caffe, nero, takeaway coffee in your hand and what's the dog called? Again Frank Is the right answer. Everyone's a winner. So there you are. Oh, you're leaving. No, you've come back. Oh, no, no, no, there we go. Are you going to show me Frank? Ah, for those of us watching on the old podcast, there is Frank. What's his breed, please?

Speaker 2:

He's like a A beech on, but a very scruffy one. He needs his haircut.

Speaker 1:

Get your haircut, Frank, really yeah, it's the sort of world exclusive here on LinkedIn. So here we are. Then we're on the chef's lounge with the Caffe Nero. I'm now going to arrive and what's the name of the river? For an extra million pounds. Sorry points, no cash attached.

Speaker 2:

Shane Lee. And then a word that means a little river, and I can't remember it Chainly, something Right.

Speaker 1:

So here we are on the banks of Chainly Something, on a Shez Lodge that you couldn't get in the house with Frank and a caffeine hero. Here we go. I'm now going to arrive with a tree in your clearing and I'm going to shake your tree A bit, waiting for Godot-esque, a bit existentially, deliberately here. So the invocation is to go as deep as you like, when you like, where you like. So it's five, four, three, two, one, five minutes to have thought, michael Owen, about four things that have shaped you, three things that inspire you, two things that never fail to grab your attention. And borrow from the film up, that's a bit, oh, squirrels, you know what never fails to grab your attention, irrespective of anything else that's going on for you. And then the one is a quirky or unusual fact about you. We couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us. So over to you to shake your tree as you see fit.

Speaker 2:

So you primed me with these, which was really valuable and it was really good to think about these. So you asked me to think about the four things that shaped me, and the first one is is man, it's Manchester, and the reason is and it's really interesting to me to so thank you for asking me to think about this. I was taken away from Manchester by a broken family when I was, I think, 11, but I still sense Manchester and it's not the reality of Manchester, it's what I think Manchester is. And when I read about the Hacienda and Tony Wilson and Morrissey, and you know this kind of thing and you know Liam Gallagher, I suppose, because I wrote recently, I'm nearly I'm nearly one of the best thingers in the world. This is exclusive. Are you aware of this? Yes, hit me with it. One mile up the road where I lived was where Mick Hucknall was. Then six miles up the road was Liam Gallagher. So clearly, I'm nearly one of the best singers in the world by my rep.

Speaker 1:

I completely. I love that. You are officially nearly one of the greatest singers in the world.

Speaker 2:

Horton Green. There aren't many people in Horton Green. One of them was me and the other one was Mick Hucknall.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so does he know that you've taken second sort of no, but I imagine, if you get him on he'll say he's nearly one of the world's best brands. People, because he was in the same village as me, that's not likely. But to answer your question, the one thing that shaped me is my perception of Manchester. I think, and I. It's black and white in my mind, you see, because in 1977 I was nine-ish, but that's when it was the Queen's Silver Jubilee and they were triangular bunting with little, but in my head it's all black and white. My brain somehow remembers it as an otherworldly. Is I like the world otherworldly? Is it one world or two?

Speaker 1:

Otherworldly. I think that's a great question. We'll get people to write in. I'm going to guess hyphen no.

Speaker 2:

Okay, manchester is otherworldly to me and I don't know that I like the fact that. Well, yes, it's progressed and it's beautiful now, as I understand it, more beautiful than I was there, but for me it was beautiful in black and white, just as it was.

Speaker 1:

I also love the fact that you remember it as black and white rather than sort of, you know, blaming young people for trying to blame, to try to perceive your world as being black and white back in the day.

Speaker 2:

When I woke up, it was black and white in my bedroom, which was in Horton Green.

Speaker 1:

So you're a mancunian as your homeland. I love that, so that's a great shape. We will have that Number two please.

Speaker 2:

My step-granddad was called Frank Cherry great name, frank Cherry, I think, but he was the first. I once wrote a story on 50 Odd and, if I'm honest, the reason I wrote I started 50 Odd on one of them was to write this story and it was. I've always had a thing for older men. That was the first line about I've always had a thing for older men. I'm not a gay person, but the reason I've always had a and I wanted to write.

Speaker 2:

I've really in my life there's been a number of men that I've met who were my dad, but they didn't know Because I never had one. You see, my dad just buggered off. So Frank Cherry, who was my step-granddad, he was my dad but he didn't know. He was the first man who listened to me and allowed me. This is very important for me, particularly as a 55-year-old man who still is very childlike, as perhaps we all are in here somewhere. But he was the first guy who allowed me just to mess things up and make wooden aeroplanes that clearly, when you threw them went. They were never going to work. You know what I mean. But he was patient and he let me into his world, which was his shed.

Speaker 2:

So Frank Cherry shaped me and showed me what being a gentleman was. And he also said and this is the last thing I'll say because I know we're on a, you know we can't go on forever and ever, but the last thing I remember him saying before he died many moons ago was that his eyes were like windows. He said just be, look after what's in here rather than what's out there, because the windows don't change. But you'll occasionally get a glance at yourself in the mirror, young Michael, and everything will have changed, but not the windows, not from the inside. And I remember him telling me that as a 12-year-old, perhaps in his shed, you know where it was safe. And I remember the second big influence on shaping me, frank Cherry.

Speaker 1:

And is that why your dog is called Frank as well?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he is. Yeah, that's why the dog's called Frank.

Speaker 1:

I love that answer and I love Frank Cherry and I know exactly what you mean about being sort of slightly in awe of the wisdom of those that can guide us. So having a thing for older men is a lovely answer. I find that quite moving. That was lovely.

Speaker 2:

The third person who influenced me was my stepdad, who was, can I say, bastard.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you said bugger off before, so bastard is fine.

Speaker 2:

Terrible bullying wife abusing drunk weak man and the interesting thing about, he's dead now. So he was cruel to the whole family. He basically came along, took the whole family and then died. Now the rea he died.

Speaker 1:

Let's drop the mic, goodnight.

Speaker 2:

If you want to pretend that, oh, there's something wrong with the connection, michael, we have to go now. No, no, you can't. We'll keep it short. But the interesting thing about this person was two things I'm left with is one, the anger for being a young boy who was bullied by somebody who just laughed at me for not knowing things. And this is when I was like 15, 16, so hugely formative years. So the anger that I had but could do nothing about when I reached a point that I thought, right now, it's my time to he died. So I was left with all this anger. It's like what the hell do I do with all this? But the other thing is, when you're with someone who shows you the shittiest ways to be in life, you either move towards the more away from them and I didn't choose, perhaps, the right word, but I gravitated away from them. So I'm glad because Frank showed me the way to go and the other fellow showed me the way not to go.

Speaker 1:

Brilliant lessons, because we've all learned such brilliant seismic lessons from those that show you exactly how not to do it. I love that Fantastic. And who was he? Again, it wasn't your dad, because he's gone. My stepdad, your dad cleared off and then you had a toxic stepdad. So I really feel for you there. That's terrible.

Speaker 2:

The interesting thing is it's life. You know, life plays you these cards. But between you and me, the person I was angry with and still am to a degree, and I've got to be very careful how to manage this is my mum, of course, and the reason I say of course in inverted commas is because she chose these people.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I'm the one who made me and then he went away, and then the other one who came and really took my childhood away, and she's still around and she's in her 80s. So it's like what do I do? Because she's not a baddie, really, she's just rubbish at choosing blokes. So is that confusion?

Speaker 1:

Yes, and have you addressed it?

Speaker 2:

Not really. No, I mean, there's been the anger and the noise, and I started to express myself in my 30s, probably went quiet in my 40s and I'm a little bit confused in my 50s. But I have to hurry up because she's 80-something. So if I'm going to mend things, I'd better do it now.

Speaker 1:

Yes, carpe diem and all that shublang. So we're on to the fourth shapeage. Now this is lovely, by the way, thank you.

Speaker 2:

The fourth shapeage is this house. So in lockdown, lisa and I got bored and thought, well, let's move the house. Then Because my sister who lived 100 yards away, she went from Newcastle down to Whitby. So we said, well, let's go and move. So we came to a place called Barden Mill, 30 miles away, and the thing that shaped me about the old post office, which is where we live now, is it's a nonsensical shaped sausage of a house. It's a sausage.

Speaker 1:

It's longer than I live in a sausage.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a sausage-shaped house which something happened when we bought it. I couldn't fathom. It's not a huge house, but I couldn't quite fathom the shape. So I thought, well, this could be turned into little Airbnb-type things. So that's what we've done, and many moons ago I've not told you this my highest qualification as Mr Brand Bloke is furniture designer. How did that happen? So I'm an interior designer, a furniture designer bloke. So we started to create these spaces which are, I think, beautiful spaces for people to come, where they immediately can switch off and chill. So this place there's enough work to do here and fathom with it.

Speaker 1:

That makes sense why you ended up with a Chesterfield as well, by the way, because that's quite a sort of elite thing to have a Chesterfield.

Speaker 2:

I used to have money you know what I mean Because of course I thought life goes. And then you go oh look, but it goes. Oh shit, you know, sometimes it does this. You're left with a Chesterfield and not a house to put it in. So there you go.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful answers to your shape-age. And now three things that inspire you, michael Owen.

Speaker 2:

The first one is the world of the do lectures. Really, david, who you know? David Hyatt, it's the world of the do lectures, because the world the do lectures was my new tribe. When I stopped the business, nobody, everyone thought I was stupid. Because you go from a, I went from a six-figure salary in employing 30 people to nothing, nothing. So my mate, who's a mechanical engineer, who's on a six-figure salary, was what? Because he's an employee of a geek big company and I'm a mental case who just left to do more. What are you going to do, mike? I'm going to do a clothing brand. What do you mean? You've never done that before. Yeah, I know. So he was like whoa, what's wrong with you? So the do lectures I somehow stumbled across, which is full of lots of mad people like me. You were trying to find their way. At the beginning I was in awe of them, all of them. Do you watch the Vicar of Dibley?

Speaker 1:

I do and have.

Speaker 2:

Yes, so Geraldine, and one of them, when she's getting my, does that, she does that. So I would meet these, you know, the David Hyatt's and that guy who founded Vimeo, and Graham Fink, who's won more Divine Awards than anybody ever, and I would just go really. Then I found out, as I met them more and more, that most of them are in some way broken and I say that unashamedly, and so do they, and I thought this is amazing because we're all as vulnerable, as petite, as wafer, thin, as fragile, as teary as everybody else, because we've all got stuff going on behind us. So the world of the do lectures was very good for me, and still is, because it's full of lots of kind but sometimes quite broken people.

Speaker 1:

Very interesting yes.

Speaker 2:

Hugely successful, sometimes very, very unhappy, sometimes very, very happy and not terribly successful. My brain kind of went.

Speaker 1:

Oh, and it happens in all walks of life the sad death of Matthew Perry recently. You know. Outside, looking in, you think there couldn't be a better career to have and better adoration about that the Robin Williams is and the sort of the darkness that lies within and the broken, as he said, beautifully put. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you there.

Speaker 2:

Oh no problem, so that's the first one yeah. So next Inspira, the second Inspira is George Michael.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yes. And the third Inspira is the first word. And the first word is the fear of the Talent, I suppose is the first word, and the honesty and the rawness and also the clear influence and cruelty of the media, I think, and the destruction of a man who I don't know he just I wrote a story about him once, because I quote a quote from George Michael was that he went in pursuit of just three words, which is the wrong everything. So he got everything, but it was the wrong everything because he should have been off over here. But George Michael I find unfathomable.

Speaker 2:

I was lucky enough to see him in his symphonica tour just a year or two before he died, but I suppose, stereotypically, I'd go what a waste. Because I loved his music. His favorite album that he did was the older album, yeah, and my favorite too, I think. But just I can't when I listen to music I can't find any. It's almost a category of his own, I think, in terms of his music, but in terms of his thinking and his journey as a man, I found stunningly fascinating. But he seemed to be punished for everything that I value honesty, sincerity, openness, all of these things that I think should be valued in a man or a woman, in the human beings he seemed to get punished for, and I don't quite know how to. I still can't work out that. I don't like that.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and there's a through line in Broken there as well, because he would be perceived as being a broken man because he pursued the wrong everything but a brilliant man. I complete that. It's very resonant.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The third and final thing, on the things that inspire me. I scribbled down Rick Mayall. I found very, very interesting as a man, if we listen to Adrian Edmondsson on a recent yes it desert island discs.

Speaker 2:

It was fantastic story there Made you ahead. I find very interesting, simply because they wanted to change how music affects people. But I think the thing that's been a direct influence on me is somebody who I didn't know until someone introduced him to me and that's a guy called Dave Trot. Dave Trot is a he's written six books, an old school advertising guy, and I've written down it's kind of the world of Dave Trot, the people in and around Dave's world, because you know, 50-ish years ago they were stunningly clever. You know business communicators Bernbach, ogilvy Dave Trot was in and around that and I worked with a guy called Les Les Stern who was the former head of planning and strategy at Sarches in three different countries Singapore, new York and London. He was part of my team for a while and he introduced me a little bit to that world and I think that business communications peaked 50 years ago and as a basic fundamental it's got shitter and shitter because we look for the next new thing and it's just look, it's all there, you just get it and learn from it. And that's where the real beauty of business communication is.

Speaker 2:

But the reason I referenced Dave Trot is because and I was very flattered by this, but not at the time was someone said you write like Dave Trot and you must have kind of. I've never heard of him. I've now read Dave Trot. He is a genius. I don't write like him really. He's like here and I'm kind of here. But it was nice to be considered in the same breath. Dave Trot's books, superb. It's all about where creativity comes from. Anywhere and everywhere is the short answer. But Dave Trot is the third influence. His world influences me and what I am and do today.

Speaker 1:

And now two things. This is where the squirrels come in that never fail to grab your attention. What are your squirrels of distraction? This is borrowed from the film Up, oh squirrels. What. Two things never fail to distract you.

Speaker 2:

Remember, you know, cheers, that program. There are 275 episodes of cheers, which is just yesterday. I got my car key out just under six days. Poor, poor Lisa. I used to make her watch them all with me every year, every year, you know, we'll remember. Well, I'll remember box sets of cheers, cd, dvd after DVD. So the first thing that would always get my attention is cheers love it.

Speaker 1:

And there's a reboot as well now. Isn't there with Nicholas Lindhurst as well, I think?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've stayed away from it. I'm a bit scared it might be rubbish, but the old school cheers stuff.

Speaker 1:

Just magical and your main man lives in Portus Head near Bristol, where I live now. He's bought a house in Bristol, in Portus Head rather than living in America.

Speaker 2:

I think I might be trapped in a bubble of what it was. I get frightened if anything else comes in, but the first thing that always gets me.

Speaker 1:

No, I think I might be barking at the wrong tree. I might be talking about Fraser.

Speaker 2:

At this moment I'm so sorry, but of course, of course they're all connected, aren't they?

Speaker 1:

Yes, because Fraser was Cheers. That was a bit of a good recovery. Sorry about that.

Speaker 2:

Well, it was good you were right, because my brain was thinking, yeah, I've just seen that. But yes, fraser, of course, was a resident of the cheers bar.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, thank you for helping me make the connection that I wasn't just going barking man down lovely.

Speaker 2:

But cheers will always, you know. If it comes on on the telly, you know I'm there.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

The second thing is whiskey on the end of the aisle because it's got a tenner off.

Speaker 1:

So, you've eaten down. I'd gone to Isle, as in the Isle of Marl or something, but you went whiskey on the end of the Isle in Sainsbury's or something.

Speaker 2:

Sainsbury's Wade shows us anywhere.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And you can buy it because it's 10 quid cheaper this week than it was last week, even though it probably isn't really. But the other thing which will make me physically kind of stop and just leave Isabelle the seven-year-old to wander off and buy 20 vents and edges or whatever she wants to do, is the end of the aisle whiskey, which makes me kind of slather and I keep buying it like that. But I can't do anything about that. That's just something.

Speaker 1:

I just love that. And now a quirky or unusual fact about you, Michael Owen, Captain Brown, that we couldn't possibly know about you until you tell us.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if you knew this, but one day at work, one Friday, when I had the agency and there was like 20 people working so it was in the earliest days we got a phone call from Virgin One, a new television channel. It was one year in and it had been okay in the first year and they said to relaunch Virgin One for year two. We have a new programme and we've been watching you guys for a bit because you're slightly bonkers and we think you might be the first company we should have on. It's called the Naked Office and basically we place a psychologist with you and your team for one week and by the end of that one week you'll all be comfortable coming to work on the Friday Naked. Whoa, and I think I told them to F off and put the phone down because I thought it was just one of my mates mucking about.

Speaker 2:

Short story it was Virgin One. We did sign up to it and we was two weeks long. They asked our receptionist, samantha, to go home. On day two. They replaced her with a young guy in a big trench coat. He came in, took his trench coat off, hung it up completely naked to kind of get us into the feeling that being naked is okay. We had a life drawing class on one of the days and by the Friday not all the team did it, but nearly all the team did. Many of them did come to work naked and that's called the Naked Office and if you're feeling particularly masochistic, it's out there. Still on that there, youtube.

Speaker 1:

Lovely and once it's seen and it's out there, it can't not be seen.

Speaker 2:

I love that. The bit they didn't show was strategically placed socks. Ah yes, you can put a sock on it as well as in it.

Speaker 1:

It's called a Willy Warmer in other people's worlds, isn't it?

Speaker 2:

Yes, so socks were involved, but I did drive to work. Do you remember an A to Z?

Speaker 1:

Definitely.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so an A to Z just. You've perhaps never tested this. It's big enough to cover your thing. If you're driving to work naked and there's a cameraman there, you put an A to Z on your knee and you're fine.

Speaker 1:

Which is how you get away with driving naked all the time. I like that it is.

Speaker 2:

That's a really Fact of the day A to Z are still useful.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, cool fact We've shaken your tree, hurrah. So now we're moving away from the tree, but staying in the clearing which is still on your beautiful Chesterfield next to the river you said was called the Chainley Burn, chainley Burn On the Chesterfield, the Chainley Burn. So now we're going to talk about Alchemy and Gold. So, when you're at purpose and in flow, michael, and what are you absolutely happiest doing in what you're here to reveal to the world?

Speaker 2:

It's anything with Isabel, who is my seven-year-old daughter. She's my. This is interesting. I was thinking last night, which is really useful, and thank you to you. She's my egg timer. When I see her, she's my egg timer because I can see the sand disappearing, because that's the way it goes, not as an older dad, which is what I am, but when I see her she's the egg timer and that's one of the many things I see, because I just delight at everything she is and does. But the egg timer is what I see, because I mourn for when she cried in the night and when she. That word toddler is a, not an onomatopoeic word. I'm not clever enough to know what it is, but she was a toddler, wasn't she? As your child? They toddled.

Speaker 1:

And then seven over.

Speaker 2:

But now at seven, she doesn't. So that's gone. And I wrote a story about one day when I was working and she brought me an apple and it was the saddest day because before that point they were bapples, because she was one year and one month, so she brought me an apple. Daddy had brought an apple. I was teary because I missed the point where it changed from bapple to apple, because I was busy. That's why she's my egg timer, because one of the days, one of these days, there'll be no more sand. So I'm reminded to stay with her and never I'll try my very best never to say I haven't got the time, because one day I won't have the time.

Speaker 1:

By the way, that's really relatable. My daughter could never say pumpkin, so it was always mump cuckoo pin, punkmin, mump cuckoo pin. And then my son came along and went pumpkin. What are you talking about? Anyway, very resonant Words, when they are corrected, are no longer as valuable. I love that so wonderful. Now I'm going to award you with a cake, so you're going to put a cherry on the cake and this is stuff like what's a favourite inspirational quote that's always given you sucker and pulled you towards your future.

Speaker 2:

OK, I know what that is. It's a quote which is I'm going to quote me. That's very arrogant, isn't it?

Speaker 1:

God, I'm marvellous. Let me tell you what I said once.

Speaker 2:

What I said once was it's better to be different than it is to be better. And then I said to a guy I work with who was really really really clever on brand, I said is that right? And he said, all right, it is. So my quote is it is better to be different than it is to be better, because the path of different is so much more interesting than the path of better. Trying to be better is a silly, masochistic leapfrog. It's awful. Pack it in the road to different is amazing, you know. So it is better to be different than it is to be better.

Speaker 1:

Get in Lovely. What's the best piece of advice you've ever been given, Michael?

Speaker 2:

This was given to me by a guy who actually ended up in a right state. His business went poppy, drank too much and probably isn't in a good state these days. However, he did say this to me once. He said try and be cognizant of, or aware of whether you're running away from something or towards something. Because when I wanted to change businesses or relationships or this or that, he made me realize that almost every time I was running away from something, I very rarely was running towards something. So now I always ask myself that question Change, I welcome in the heartbeat, in fact, if I'm not changing, I worry. But I always ask myself the question are you moving towards something or away from something? Because if it's moving away from something, it's almost always dangerous in my experience, because, although being lost is OK, it's a fact of life, I think. But my point is this I think that being aware just be aware, and I said whether I'm running away from something or towards something is valuable. So that is the short answer.

Speaker 1:

This could be related, but what notes, help or advice? Might you profit a younger version of yourself with a beautiful gift of hindsight?

Speaker 2:

Oh, I think that a truth is you're better than you think you are. That's it for all of us. It's hard because being humble is it's not a strategy, but I am not a horribly showy person, I hope. But we're all better than we think we are and I think we become more aware of that the older that we get you know, and the sooner we can realise it, the more confident we might become and they're actually moved closer towards further preeminence, because we are all better than we think we are, but almost everything I think.

Speaker 1:

So around here very shortly to a bit of Shakespeare to talk about legacy. But just before we get there, we've got the past. The golden baton moment please. Which is who in your network would you most like to pass the golden baton along to to keep the golden thread of the storytelling going?

Speaker 2:

Say toza, faye Tozer from Steps, because I've never spoke to her about this. She was, I was. I know her husband, michael, and Faye quite well. Well, I know Michael more than Faye. Faye did some modeling for us, for the, for the clothing brand up here. She's still touring with Steps, hugely talented, hugely talented. But the interesting thing about Faye is she was probably most lauded and celebrated when her work was arguably or socially considered the most kind of trite and transient. The kiddie version, the older version, you know, very beautiful, intelligent, hugely talented woman who is not it's kind of strange Like this version of Faye, is infinitely more, in my opinion, interesting and layered and wise than this version. But this is the one that was celebrated more than this one and how she manages. That I think would be really interesting for you to explore. Faye Tozer.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. And now, inspired by Shakespeare, all the world's astute at all, the bed of women, really players. We're going to talk about legacy now. So how, when all is said and done, michael, would you most like to be a member, Ed?

Speaker 2:

I think I'm going to, I'm finally going to write these little books next year, so perhaps, in the Dave Trot-esque way, dave Trot's books, I think, will influence how confident people are with how they approach creativity. My intention for the books I'm going to write next year there's three little ones, I think will be to upgrade how all marketing is done, either because I can help the people who are buying into marketing to recognize crap marketing, and I want to also stop crappy marketers being crap.

Speaker 1:

Very help yes.

Speaker 2:

And I think I can do that with the way I'm going to put these little books together, because it's a way that has to be interesting. I don't want to do it, you know, because I started writing 50 odd five years ago. Lots of people have said to me write a book, write a book. But I never. I didn't know why I wanted to write a book. I didn't want to be one of those people who have written a book. Well, why to write a book?

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Short answer to your question is I in my little brain and I'm aiming high. Of course, I want to change how marketing is done for those who read my book, because the way I'm going to do it, chris is writing in such a way that it can change a marketer almost immediately. That's my plan, so that's what I would like my legacy to be. But who knows, we'll see.

Speaker 1:

Where can we find out all about you? On the old interweb, and this is where you can also talk about exactly where to find 50 odd. It is a wonderful newsletter, I love it. So where can we find out all about you?

Speaker 2:

The easy thing is and you referenced it earlier I've spelled me name funny mychamichael, michaelcouk. That's all you need to remember, really, because if people bob there it kind of links off to the 50 odd thing and other bits and bobs that I'm up to. So Michael spelled with a Y instead of an I dotcouk is all that a person needs to remember.

Speaker 1:

Interesting. See what I did there. That was, that was what you were about, thank you. Very good. And so, as this has been your moment in the sunshine, in the Good, listening to Show Stories of Distinction and Genius, is there anything else you'd like to say, michael?

Speaker 2:

Not really. I think what I'll do is I'll point you to one story on the 50 odd blog and it's the most read story in the five years I've been doing it. And all you have to do is go to 50odcouk and look for the work and search on the word connect. There's a story about and it's called connect and the reason it's a story which is a very emotional story. It's a very short story and the story is I came across forgive me if I mentioned this to you before a video of a bird that's tweeting and it's tweeting in a certain way it tweets and then it stops, and then it tweets and then it stops, and the reason it's stopping is because it's made fills the gap with a call and response tweet.

Speaker 2:

But this is the thing it's the last bird of the species. So the interesting thing is it's a beautiful, tiny little video, but it affected me because it was in the time of COVID and I got a bit scared about going out. I've got quite a gregarious mouthy chap, as you can perhaps tell. I have this very fearful side of being out and about. And this poor little bird it's dead now and there is no more. But the point is, if you listen to the tweet and then the gap, it's just waiting for the female version, but there isn't one. And the story I wrote around it was if we have the opportunity to connect in a way that this little bird couldn't, then we should connect, because in the times where we don't connect, I don't think the good stuff happens then. So the story that's called connect on 50oddcouk because you can hear the bird, it's a good story.

Speaker 1:

Michael, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking to you here and thank you for watching on LinkedIn. If you have to Do check out the goodlisting2showcom website as well, and thank you so much for being here. It's been an absolute joy. I almost don't want you to finish, actually, so is there anything else you'd like to say? Else else?

Speaker 2:

That's it. I mean I suppose I mentioned one. I mentioned a number because this connects a few of the things. One of the things that came into the conversation when I first met the Doolectors crowd was the 1000 months. So 1000 months, as you all know, is 84 years, 83 years and four months, and it's about the average that we live. Just to cheer us on, look to end on a high note, because we only get 1000 months. If you get your calculator out now, anyone and goes shit, this is this, that's it, that's all we get. So work out, you know, that's one of the reasons why the diary of a man that stopped waiting. I went right, shit, I'm going to do it. Do it now, because I was up to 600 months, 600 months like 400 left. Just do it now, you know.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful advice. Thank you, everybody, and I'll stop recording there. You've been listening to the Good Listening 2 show here on UK Health Radio with me, chris Grimes oh, it's my son. If you've enjoyed the show, then please do tune in next week to listen to more stories from the clearing. If you'd like to connect with me on LinkedIn, then please do so. There's also a dedicated Facebook group for the show too. You can contact me about the program or, if you'd be interested in experiencing some personal impact coaching with me, care of my level up your impact program. That's chris at secondcurveuk On Twitter and Instagram. It's at that, chrisgrimes. So until next time for me, chris Grimes from UK Health Radio. I'm from Stan to your good health and goodbye. So could I get your immediate feedback on what that was like being given a good listening to and curated through this structure? How was that for you, michael?

Speaker 2:

It was nice, it was very flattering, it was enjoyable because you asked me to pause, get off the treadmill and think about my life and the people around me who affect me and who my effect. So it was very, it was nice. It was nice, it was pleasant.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful and also I completely echo the Vibe Attractual Tribe thing. I loved getting involved. The more people I meet who are associated with the do lectures and David Hyatt, the more I. That's what's really exciting about the golden baton and the golden thread, Because Ian Thacker had led me to you and I'm really delighted that it did.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's all good.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful.