Reflection: Proximity & Storytelling Matter - Episode 17

In a rare peek behind the scenes,  Amplified Voices hosts, Jason and Amber round out their first season by reflecting on how the podcast has evolved - exploring how proximity and storytelling have been able to make an impact on the many people who have participated, listened and shared the show with others.  

Through a candid discussion, the hosts highlight the feedback they have received,  what the project has meant to each of them and the many things they have learned from the guests who have trusted them to amplify their inspiring stories of pain, growth, triumph and humanity. They also offer a look at how guests are selected, how the show is organized and produced, and offer a preview of what to expect in season two. 

Transcript

Season One Recap

Intro: [00:00:00] Everyone has a voice; a story to tell. Some are marginalized and muted. 

What if there were a way to amplify those stories; to have conversations with real people in real communities; a way to help them step into the power of their lived experience. 

Welcome to Amplified Voices, a podcast, lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system.

Together, we can create positive change, for everyone.

Jason: [00:00:34] Hello and welcome to another episode of Amplified Voices. I'm your host, Jason, here with my co-host Amber. And we're doing something a little different today. We are doing a wrap-up for season one. Rather than have a guest on we are just going to talk to each other a little bit about season one and what's coming in season two.

Good morning, Amber.

Amber: [00:00:54] Good morning, Jason. I'm really excited to be doing this episode, cause we're really gonna talk about and reflect on season one, the people that we've talked to, and some of the things that we've learned. Cause this has been a real learning experience for me.

Jason: [00:01:10] I would use the term life-changing; absolutely life-changing. I've been so impressed with the people that we had on as guests. Sometimes we would book someone. I didn't know them at all. You might say here's the name. And we start talking with them and, Oh my, when we start hearing their stories, I would walk out just breathless. And you know, Amber, at the end, what we do each week.

Amber: [00:01:31] Yeah. So, each week after we record with someone, we take a few minutes to kind of debrief with them because we have guests from all walks of life. And different places in their journey. So, some people have told their stories over and over again. Some people, this is the first time that they've ever really talked publicly about what's happened to them. So, we just want to make sure like, guests are okay, how they feel about it. 

And, you know, we have an editing process. So, we're usually like, is there anything that you said that maybe you want us to cut out or, you know, that kind of stuff.

Jason: [00:02:07] But I know, you know, when I tell my story at the end, it stays with me, things that I've talked about. Especially if it's gonna go to an audience. But just on being on the other side of listening to people telling their stories, I mean, it certainly impacts me. And then I know you've talked about almost crying or crying several times, being very emotional. So, for us it has an impact. 

So, that debrief has become really important, not just for our guests, but for me too. Because at the end of the podcast, I sit there and I just need some time to process what I've heard. And then I go out in the other room and I talk to my wife and I say, you'll never believe what we just talked about and I have to tell you. So that's really something.

Amber: [00:02:46] Yeah, many times things are very traumatic. So really thinking about it and what it means for the system, how it affects you, all of those kinds of things, it is something that really changes you and affects how you feel. So, it does take a little time after an episode to really think about what you've heard and how it's affected you.

And then really, what's kind of exciting is, you're also so often so inspired by the people that you've spoken to because of the way that they were so willing to share their story for the purpose of making change. And how their story, when it goes out to the world, is able to change hearts and minds. So, that's what I find really exciting. Because even though some of the things that we talk about are hard to hear, it's real life. It's what's really happened.

And the way that our guests have navigated and many done so many wonderful things is just so inspiring.

Jason: [00:03:50] I think it's really cool - I can't think of a specific example, maybe you can -  but when we talked to somebody and then we see them on Twitter that day, and they're like something that has been triggered in their memory, they then go and they tweet about. And you can tell it's because we had that conversation with them. I'll give you an example.

Our very first guest came on here with a pseudonym, right?

Amber: [00:04:10] Right. 

Jason: [00:04:11] And she said, I'm gonna use the name Jean. And we said, okay, we respect that. And then she went out onto Twitter within the week. She was, you know, using her real name. "Hey, I'm Jean I'm Jean." Because she listened to the episode. She talked with her family members and they said, yeah, go for it. Be public.

Amber: [00:04:28] Right. And I think that's one of the things, again, that's really exciting about the podcast and I've really enjoyed, is seeing people step from a place of shame into a place of power. And like, I got a little choked up even saying that because, even my own personal journey, stepping from the place of complete brokenness and saying, you know what? This is the thing that happened to us, but "A" I'm not alone, and "B" this story is important and it gives me power to tell it, so that change can come. And so, that really makes me very happy and is one of the main purposes of the podcast. 

Giving people the tools and the platform to step into a power that they didn't know that maybe they had.

Jason: [00:05:18] That's true. That's true. 

Talking about the podcast in general, we have a great editor. Who's making sure that whenever we have our "um's" and our "ah's" and things like that, it gets cleaned up. And I can't tell you how much I appreciate that and that we have somebody that's doing that for us right now.  That's tremendous. And doing it, you know, unfortunately, we tried to raise some funds and we haven't been successful in that endeavor yet. So, it would be really great if we could compensate our editor, but right now the editor is doing it completely for free.

Amber: [00:05:50] Yeah, I mean, I will say that our editor is a great guy. He is justice-impacted himself. 

 So, when we start talking about what goes into creating a podcast, you've got all of these different thoughts and especially a podcast like ours, which isn't really, okay, we're just going to ask some questions. The people know what the questions are before they come on. And so we can kind of segment it very easily into question and answer format. That's not how our podcast works, cause it's really more of a conversation. So, it adds to the editing time, if you will. Because you are listening to a conversation. Trying to make decisions on, you know, how to frame it into a story. 

And then the other thing is that these guests may do some tapping or they may have some nervousness or whatever. And he just really does a great job of making everybody sound so wonderful, myself included because I am an "umer". It's just a fact. So, um, we do really, as I say, um, please leave that in, editor. 

So, we really just are so thankful for all of the time that he spends making us sound really good and making the guests sound really good.

So, as we continue to move along with the podcast - and we're very excited about season two -  we will need to seek some sponsors, seek some funding in order to keep the podcast going. So, if you love the podcast, just reach out. We will be establishing some more mechanisms to support the show.

Jason: [00:07:26] We've been kind of subtle about it. If you go to amplifiedvoices.show, there's a link there, but we haven't pushed it. We're doing this in our free time and we haven't really put a whole lot of effort into trying to raise funds, so...

Amber: [00:07:41] Yeah, it is a labor of love for sure. Everybody involved is really dedicated to telling stories. And if we can make it flat-line break even then we will, but we're really dedicated to telling the stories.

Jason: [00:07:58] Right. And in terms of having these stories change people, I think it has real potential to do that. 

I drove my father to the hospital to pick up my mother. And while we were sitting there, I put on Andrew's story. And I said, "I want you to listen." So, we're listening for like five minutes and we're sitting in the parking lot waiting for my mother to be brought out. And he's like, "I've got to go check on her." So, he comes back out and he said "Put it back on. Put it back on." Because he wanted to hear more. And we talk about the stories, you know, we talk about what we've heard. You know, he's like, "I had no idea. I had no idea." 

And in that particular episode, we talked a lot about clergy. And Andrew talks about how he's changed. How before he was a member of the clergy, but he didn't really talk about social issues, and now he does. And we talked about that and you know, my father and I had a lengthy conversation about that. So, it changed his view and his outlook. 

And I know that each episode can have that impact and people, if they listen with other people and then talk about it.

Amber: [00:08:57] You make a good point because I've had many similar experiences with family members who have listened to the podcast or friends of mine who've listened to the podcast, that are astounded that they didn't know a certain thing about the criminal legal system. Especially when it comes to public registries and what it means to live under the oppression of a public registry. Even knowing me, they're like, I had no idea that you were going through that. I thought it was just over. So, I think that that's really important. 

I've also had people reach out to me and say, you know, I sent this particular episode to a legislator because I think that was important for them to hear how this really affects people's lives. And so, I think that it's a good tool for advocacy as well if you do have a relationship with anybody who is in a position of power, that it can be utilized to open up conversations about some of the issues where change is needed.

Jason: [00:10:08] Yeah, that's great. You know, I like to think we're more than just entertainment, you know. Something that people listened to because, Oh, I got to hear a story and then move on, versus, what can you do next? How can you take some action? And sharing the story with other people as a way of taking action and talking about it and recognizing where there are holes in the system and just talking about it.

That's a very good first step for anybody to take.

Amber: [00:10:33] You know, when we think about the different guests that we've had. You know, we've had individuals that had a completely different perspective. So, let's take Jean. She had a completely different perspective before she was affected, how she was affected. "I'm gonna be looking for these little red dots because this is how I protect my children." And so, coming to a place of really understanding that that was kind of a lie that society tells.

 Or talking to a guest like Iran who took circumstances that he grew up in and turned it around in such a positive way to create the Peace Center. That can only be done by someone who really has that lived experience.

Jason: [00:11:22] And It really became clear, I mean, when you talk about these two different worlds that they came from. And we've seen that very clearly. We've had very diverse people entering into the criminal legal system in different ways.

Amber: [00:11:34] Oh yeah.

Jason: [00:11:35] And Somebody who grew up where they were basically born into a life where they were exposed to the police coming into their house, putting guns at their head at very young ages, right? We've had guests that have told us that. They were six years old being threatened and being treated like a co-conspirator. 

Amber: [00:11:52] Right.

Jason: [00:11:53] Then versus somebody who was having the police over to their home for barbecue and then all of a sudden they find themselves sitting there with ICE pounding on the door.

They're very different lives, but when they get into the system, lives are upended.

Amber: [00:12:07] Right. We talked to so many different people, and that was a growth process for me as well. And to hear again, how people rose above circumstance in certain situations and then also how they were affected by circumstance. It really brings to mind something that I heard, representative Robyn Porter say. She says, you know, we love to talk about second chances all the time, but there are so many people that were just never given a first. 

It really drove the point home. When we talked to people from varied backgrounds.

Jason: [00:12:45] And think about what some of them have accomplished. Like Daryl gets out and he starts a whole re-entry type program and he's working with the state and now a school system and doing all these great things. 

And Tiheba starts Women Against Mass Incarceration in Connecticut. And she's got women coming to her, knocking on her door at all hours of the night, looking for help.

You've got a couple of folks that are doing advocacy work. Jean has her emotional support groups that she's working on.

Amber: [00:13:11] How about Adnan and Restore Justice?

Jason: [00:13:14] Oh boy.

Amber: [00:13:16] Just so many inspirational things. And Andrew ministering to people who have been affected by the criminal legal system.

Jason: [00:13:24] David Garlock out there. Andre's advocating in Connecticut all over the place. Nancy went on to get a degree.

Amber: [00:13:30] Yeah, absolutely. 

I really want to call out Trisha because Trisha had never told her story before and she was very nervous and she did such an amazing job.

Jason: [00:13:42] Absolutely. 

It's been really interesting to record in 2020. You know, when we first started doing it, I think the fact that COVID shut everything down and everybody was going to zoom and we started thinking about the platform we might use. I mean, maybe even help us in a way. But the stories that we heard of people who were impacted by COVID or people who have loved ones who are still incarcerated and how they've been impacted by COVID and what's going on in prisons. What's happening for people who are on probation who have to still report. Or someone who's on a registry who has to go in and report. 

There've been so many things that have happened this year with COVID, with the protests, you know. And we talked with Daryl about his encounter years ago with the police with the chokehold situation. So, hearing him tell the story of how George Floyd impacted him. All of these things are so relevant and it was even made more so this year with so much big focus on criminal legal system reform.

Amber: [00:14:38] Right. Even when we spoke with Deb and she shared about her brother, who's currently incarcerated. And how COVID was handled a little bit differently in the True Unit, which is kind of a specialized unit here in Connecticut that follows a different model with mentors and mentees. Versus the families that she had been in contact with who were sharing stories about what was going on in general population, in terms of people behind bars being able to get just simple cleaning supplies to protect themselves.

So, seeing those stark differences, even within one particular department of corrections, on how people's experiences are panning out.

Jason: [00:15:28] The other thing about some of the Connecticut guests was, as we were recording, three of our guests were nominated for what was called the Hall of Change here in Connecticut, for people who were formerly incarcerated, who are doing great things in their communities. 

Amber: [00:15:43] Right.

Jason: [00:15:44] Tiheba, Iran, and Daryl all received that award this year. You know, that was really cool to see. We picked them out because we knew of their stories and we knew that they were interesting people, but then they win this big award. So, that was exciting to see.

Amber: [00:15:59] Yeah, you bring up a good point. There are a few different ways in how we choose guests. Some of it is people just reach out to us and they're like, I've been impacted and this is kind of a synopsis of my story, and I would be willing to share. Other guests that we have we've reached out to them because we know that they've done some great work and they have compelling stories. A lot of it is through Twitter. Sometimes people email us. Sometimes it's somebody that we know personally. So, it's been really exciting and fun to choose the guests and try to develop programming based on different topic areas and things like that. 

For instance, when we first started talking about the podcast, obviously because of our own experience and the advocacy we're involved in, we really wanted to highlight the stories that are often forgotten or pushed to the side of people who've been affected by public registration.

The other thing is that you really can't disentangle public registration from the entirety of the criminal legal system. So, you know, it's important to note that, in my mind, public registration and civil commitment, they're really like the deepest, darkest parts of our criminal legal system that people are like, well, we don't really care what happens to those folks because they're monsters.

But when you really start peeling back the layers, the prison issues, the bail abuse, the asset forfeiture, those are all things that we personally experienced and they lead down that road to the deepest, darkest part of public registration. So they really can't be disentangled.

Jason: [00:17:50] That's right. And it feels like it's changing a little bit, but even when you're in the criminal legal system and you're talking about reform, the reform only goes so far. We get these exclusions. We get, except for murderers and sex offenders, right? So, they have these exclusions. 

Amber: [00:18:08] Right.

Jason: [00:18:09] And even people that we've talked with who have gone to prison, they've done this, but, but prison, in a sense, there's a certain hierarchy and people who have committed sex offenses are at the lowest wrong in the system and can be targeted and harassed and everything else.

And again, it could be somebody who was struggling with something who may have just needed some therapy. And instead, they're in the system and there's very few people out there advocating for them because advocating for them means that you're one of them, right? 

Amber: [00:18:44] Right.

Jason: [00:18:45] And that's not a good place to be. That's a dangerous place to be for anybody.

So, you could see why people wouldn't advocate and why they've been programmed to not advocate. So, hopefully, some of the stories that we're able to share will start to change some of those opinions. 

And again, nobody is standing here saying that sexual assault or sexual abuse is an okay thing. It's not.

Amber: [00:19:10] It's not any more than any other crime is okay. So, when we talk about second chances and redemption, it should be for all people. When we're looking for humanity and the ability for somebody to experience the opportunity for rehabilitation, it should be extended to everyone. 

For instance, Kristen's story. So, Kristin feels very strongly about primary prevention. And Kristin was one of our guests who had a situation in her family, where there was inter-familial abuse that happened. And she found herself loving everybody who was involved and wanting healing for everybody who was involved. And that is not what the system delivered to her family. So she, again, in looking back and the experiences of the person who committed the abuse, they had abuse in their past and it was intergenerational. 

So, how do we stop those cycles? And it's very difficult, especially for people who've experienced harm to take a step back from their own pain. I put myself in that, it's very difficult to step back from your own pain and say, okay, this is how I was affected, but on an overall societal level, how do we fix this?

It's definitely not going to be by a revenge based punishment-based system, because it will just perpetuate harm for generations to come.

Jason: [00:20:51] So, we need more people to say, how do we fix it and not just react the same way we've always reacted. You just can't go with your gut visceral reaction. You have to step back. And again, going back to telling stories, it really comes down to the power of the story. Listening to the whole person, because a lot of times somebody hears about the bad things someone did and then they shut down. That's it. The conversation's over. 

Amber: [00:21:18] Right.

Jason: [00:21:19] But when you probe a little bit, like we've done, and you say, hang on a second, tell us what led to that. What happened to you? You start to see a different story emerge. And you see that anybody can go this way. 

And one thing that we know is that people who have been harmed don't miraculously heal. They either find a way to heal, or they hurt themselves, or they hurt someone else.

Amber: [00:21:45] Right. And so, that's why we need more services. Everything needs to be focused on the crime survivor in a way that makes sense. So, I'm not suggesting that we should just do whatever crime survivors want, because that could be, just get a machete and go chop somebody up in their house. But when we look at what heals, a lot of times it's hearing that apology, it's knowing it won't happen to someone else, and it's giving the person who's committed harm the opportunity to do something that can make things as right as possible.

So, that's what we really need to be looking at.

Jason: [00:22:28] And then we have Tammy. Here's a woman that served in our military, just like you. Had her own trauma that went unresolved. And then found herself in a situation where she was the one who was doing something inappropriate.

Amber: [00:22:45] As much as her initial experience in the military was traumatic and went unresolved, and the system in that sense really failed her. 

Jason: [00:22:56] Right.

Amber: [00:22:56] Um, she wasn't there to say, well, that excuses my behavior. I think that our guests have really risen above what they have, you know, experienced, and gone on to do really amazing things.

Jason: [00:23:14] That brings us to another podcast. 

Amber: [00:23:16] Yeah.

Jason: [00:23:17] So we've been listening and then we were fortunate enough to be guests on Dr. Alyssa Ackerman and Dr. Alexis Sardinas podcast called Beyond Fear, where they specifically talk about sex crimes. But they've both been on the side of being harmed and they'd share their stories, and they talk about what healing looks like for them and this whole restorative process.

So...

Amber: [00:23:40] I would encourage people to check out Beyond Fear because it's really eye-opening and they really go through the literature. They talk to the experts. They are the experts. They are people who've experienced harm. So, it's really a great podcast to utilize if you want to know more about the topic, if you're in this field, if you're a college professor that wants to utilize it for your classes, just really a great offering. So, definitely check it out.

Jason: [00:24:10] So, we talked about beyond fear. You had an opportunity to go on to another podcast.

Amber: [00:24:16] Yeah. So, Ashley Asti over at I'm curious, invited me to come on the show. And I have to say she's so calming. Honestly, I felt so comfortable and I think Ashley is like a meditation specialist. So, you can definitely tell that. So, she did make me feel very comfortable. 

I was surprised at the end of the show, how much I had shared. Cause sometimes I guard myself. You know, it's one of those things where when you have a good host, that kind of asks you good questions, things are going to come out. So I, again, I appreciate her willingness to tackle the topic and have me on the show. And I'm very pleased with the way it came out. 

And the other thing I want to say about her, she's been doing this for quite some time. I think the podcast is new, but she has written several books, and to take Alyssa Ackerman's words, she's just a beautiful human.

Jason: [00:25:11] Alright. We closed out the season with Thomas Owen Baker.

Amber: [00:25:15] I thought that Thomas was a really good addition to the podcast because he was affected by the legal system in a completely different way, in that he was a law enforcement officer. And through his experiences, he came to believe some different things than what you would characterize law enforcement as believing, in terms of some of the problems with the system. It was a little bit of a different episode, but it was definitely important content.

Jason: [00:25:44] Absolutely. But I think we will do more different types of things as we go forward. 

Before we start talking about where we're going for season two. I know that from a process of actually making the podcast, it's taken some time from your family. So, I mean, is there anything else that you want to touch on that we haven't.

Amber: [00:26:03] Well, I have to say, this whole process has really involved my entire family. So, the Intro is voiced by my oldest daughter. The Outro is voiced by my youngest daughter. My oldest son composed and produced the music. Obviously, I'm one of the cohosts. And my husband leads the overall production. So, I'm very proud of that.

And then I have to say that I've really appreciated you as a co-host, in terms of your insight and your ability to keep things rolling and things like that.

Jason: [00:26:38] Yeah, I mean, there is behind the scenes stuff that we do, you know, like trying to set up the meeting. Getting people involved.

Amber: [00:26:44] Yeah. And you handle it all of the meeting because I'm not as organized when it comes to that. So, I give you a shout out for that. 

Jason: [00:26:52] Oh, thank you.

Amber: [00:26:54] The last thing I want to talk about in terms of the season and the idea that I've been thinking about a lot lately, is this idea of proximity and storytelling, and why that's so super important. Because a lot of the conversations that I've had around the podcast, people who have listened to the podcasts that I either know or who have reached out to me, which have been many, many people, it's like, I just didn't know. I'm so shocked. How do we change this? So it really moves people to action. 

So, when we're talking to getting people to a place of action, I really, truly, and firmly believe that we have to focus on proximity and storytelling. Because when you're looking at somebody or you're listening to somebody's voice, the human voice has power, right? And listening to how they have actually been affected or meeting them in person, they become a human. They're no longer this number or this monster that you've thrown away. And you're like, wait, this could be my brother. This could be my wife. This could be my sister. And I think that is really the key.

And I'm super happy to be a teeny tiny part of that.

Jason: [00:28:13] Right. And I think for us, the challenge is getting more people to listen. Because I think when people listen, they like listening. And they do share the story and it does change people. Even if it just changes people a little bit. As you know, I haven't talked a lot about my situation and I will at some point with you. 

Amber: [00:28:29] Yeah.

Jason: [00:28:30] But one of the things I'll share is that I had committed an offense and I've gone through a tremendous evolution in my own thinking, right. A very judgmental person, even after I committed my offense, because I could justify and say, well, this is why I did what I did, you know, and I'm going to take steps to make sure that never happens again. But overall I'm a pretty decent person. But those other guys are really horrible.

And then I went through like a group treatment thing and I sat down with people and I listened to their stories. And I would remember in the beginning being very judgmental. Thinking about, like ranking. You know, we talked about ranking before. Ranking those stories and saying, well, this person, what he did, well his was this. He did it more than once, or he didn't, you know, how could he have done that? Being, still being very judgmental about it. But over time hearing more and more of the backstories and learning people and seeing people as a whole human, it has changed me to the point where I think that very few people go out and are the monsters that we've been taught are out there lurking in the bushes.

Amber: [00:29:30] Right.

Jason: [00:29:31] And that's something Beyond Fear talks about a lot.

Amber: [00:29:34] I just want to thank you for sharing that evolution that you went through. Because it's hard to admit, especially, you know, when you come to a place of a little bit more understanding, it's hard to admit to say, you know what, I was judgmental. I did this or I did that. And I will tell you prior to my involvement or understanding of the criminal legal system, I was that one that was like highly conservative and, you know, lock em up, get rid of the key and all of that. And I am sorry for that. I don't have anything else to say, except, I have evolved because every person can change. And that's the key.

Jason: [00:30:19] You know, knowing who you are today, you had served the military, I can't imagine you were a bad person before. It's degrees. It's a matter of perception. But I, and you might be able to make the same comment, I like myself a whole lot more than I liked the person who I was before I was entangled in this whole system.

And part of what got me into it in the first place was shame, right. 

Amber: [00:30:41] Right.

Jason: [00:30:41] And tackling that. 

I am ashamed of what I did in 2008. No question. I am ashamed of some of the behaviors that I had leading up to the crime that I committed. I am ashamed of those. But I am not ashamed of the person that's here right now. I am not ashamed of who I am, or what I'm doing, or the type of life that I live.

Amber: [00:31:01] It's an important point that you're making that everybody has the ability to grow and change. And we have to extend ourselves the same grace, right? 

Jason: [00:31:13] Yeah.

Amber: [00:31:14] That we extend to other people. Yes, I was lock em up, throw away the key prior to this. But what I know now has changed me in such a profound way that I'm not that same person. Like you said, who I am today and who you are today and who all of our guests are today, are better people because of that understanding.

Jason: [00:31:39] Yeah, and I'm glad you said guests because I want to take a moment. You thanked me a little. I thank you. I thank your family for all the hard work that you've done putting this together. It's been a pleasure to work with you and to partner with you on projects outside of this podcast. So, thank you for making it easy and for being a tremendous co-host and bringing your stories, and being so open. So, I appreciate that. 

And I also want to express appreciation for listeners. 

Amber: [00:32:04] Absolutely.

Jason: [00:32:05] I really appreciate when people do listen, when they tell their friends to listen, when they retweet us, you know. And we have some people out there that retweet us every time we post. 

I love to see like David Garlock go, boop, retweet almost instantly when he sees the episode. And some of the others really push. 

But I think that it's something that, like you talked about, professors can use it in their classroom. Legislators can use our podcast. All these different things that there's so many ways that it can be used. 

I'll be honest, it's going better than I could have imagined because the guests have brought it each time. They tell us their stories and they're, how how's this going to fill a half-hour, let alone a whole hour. 

Amber: [00:32:43] Right.

Jason: [00:32:43] And then they start talking like, I want to have them back.

Amber: [00:32:46] Right. I mean, our guests have been super amazing. The listeners have been amazing. The feedback has been amazing. It's been really beyond my wildest dreams and I'm just so thrilled and excited for season two.

Jason: [00:32:59] Right. So as we get into season two, we've already recorded three and we have a fourth one that we're going to record soon.

Amber: [00:33:06] And every time I open up my email or Twitter, there's someone else who's willing to share. And I'm just so humbled by people wanting to trust us with their stories.

Jason: [00:33:17] We haven't talked about when we're going to start them up again.

Amber: [00:33:20] Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking mid-January.

Jason: [00:33:23] Awesome. 

So, before we close out, is there anything else you want to say?

Amber: [00:33:28] Well, we've covered a lot in this episode. And we've said it multiple times, but my big message for everyone is: Keep telling your stories. Step into your power of your lived experience because you are an expert. And, you know, have conversations. Listen to the podcast. Have conversations with your family and friends.

Start to move the mark to change the criminal legal system. 

And thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being a guest. Thank you to everyone who's involved. And check us out next season. Very exciting. And, uh, look for opportunities to support.

Jason: [00:34:17] And with that, I will say, until next season, Amber.

Amber: [00:34:21] Until next season. Thanks, Jason.

Outro: [00:34:32] You've been listening to Amplified Voices. A podcast, lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. 

For more information, episodes, and podcast notes, visit amplifiedvoices.show.