Juanita Belton - Becoming Sincere Behind Bars - Season 2 Episode 4

Juanita shares the story of her friend, Sincere, who was sentenced to 45 years  for an incident that happened when he was 18.  Then known as Darnell, he signed an Alford plea deal for first degree murder, arson, and use of a firearm. Sincere has grown up behind bars. Juanita continues to advocate for him. 

Juanita is parts of a group called The Sistas in Prison Reform  https://sistasinprisonreform.com

You can connect with Juanita on Twitter at @Sinita11_

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AV PODCAST TRANSCRIPT, Juanita, Season 2 Episode 4, March 13, 2021

Announcer: [00:00:00] Support for Amplified Voices comes from the Restorative Action Foundation. Learn more at restorativeactionalliance. org. Everyone has a voice. A story to tell. Some are marginalized and muted. What if there were a way to amplify those stories? To have conversations with real people in real communities. A way to help them step into the power of their lived experience Welcome to amplified voices a podcast lifting the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system Together we can create positive change for everyone.

Jason: Hello and welcome to another episode of amplified voices I'm your host jason here with my co host amber. Hello amber. 

Amber: Hi jason. Glad to be with you this morning That's 

Jason: awesome. And we also have with us today Juanita [00:01:00] Good morning, Juanita. 

Juanita: Good morning, Jason. Good morning, Amber. So happy to have you, Juanita.

Juanita: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. 

Jason: So we usually start with the same first question, and that is, can you tell us a little bit about your life before entering the criminal legal system and what your life is like now? 

Juanita: So before entering the criminal legal system, I was an 18 year old. I had my best friends.

Juanita: I was in high school and I was preparing to go to college that particular year. 

Jason: This was in Boston? 

Juanita: Yes. So I went to Clark Atlanta University. 

Jason: Okay. 

Juanita: I grew up in Dorchester, which is part of the city of Boston. You were a city kid? Oh yeah, diehard city kid. Okay. Going down south. 

Amber: And based on the age that you look now, that was like two years ago or so?

Amber: About, about. 

Juanita: But um, 23 years ago. [00:02:00] Wow. So. It was a lot back then. That was my first introduction to the criminal justice system and what it was like. 

Jason: Was your family from Boston? Had they been there a long time? 

Juanita: Yep. My family's from Boston. I was born and raised, my dad's born and raised. My mom was born in Arkansas, but back in the sixties or so, my grandparents migrated from Little Rock to up North.

Juanita: And so that's where my mom grew up as a child. And her siblings. And then obviously I was born. 

Jason: Your family was really New England, New England. 

Juanita: Oh yeah. Everybody's here. 

Amber: So do 

Juanita: you park the car? No, I don't park the car in Harvard Yard. When you grow up in the inner city part, it's a melting pot. You have Caribbean, you have Hispanic, you have Cape Verdean, you have Haitian, you have everything.

Juanita: So that accent, the Kennedy accent is more North shore. Okay. 

Jason: Did you have siblings? 

Juanita: I was the only child for about [00:03:00] 14 years. I have two siblings who are 25 and 26. 

Jason: So when you grew up though, you were an only child. 

Juanita: I was an only child. I grew up in a single parent home till I was about 11 years old. And my mom got married to my stepdad.

Juanita: My dad is around, just kind of in and out, but we have a relationship. I had a relationship with his side as well, but my mom did all the work. 

Jason: Gotcha. All right. So now we're going down to Atlanta. Is that right? 

Juanita: We are going to study biology. 

Jason: So you know a little bit about viruses and stuff like that? 

Juanita: I do.

Juanita: I'm actually a physician assistant in gastroenterology though. But yeah, I know a little bit about viruses. So yeah, I was down in Clark, Atlanta. The person that was incarcerated, he was incarcerated before I left to go to Atlanta. So that's where I was affected. We were really close friends. 

Amber: So tell us how that came about.

Juanita: So his name is sincere. Actually, his name was Darnell. So I often call him [00:04:00] Darnell. He changed his name to sincere. I don't call him that. His mom named him Darnell. That's what I call him. Um, but we met at 15 years old. It's a really quick, funny story. Um, we met on a local bus. He lived in Roxbury, which is another part of Boston, but he worked at a local children's hospital.

Juanita: We met on a bus. We were just looking at each other. Almost got to his stop. And he came to the back of the bus, said, hi, I said, hi, we exchanged names and he got off the bus, no numbers, 15 years old, about six months later, he calls my house because my cousin lived downstairs, went to high school with him and they met on the football team.

Juanita: So he called my house looking for my cousin and I happened to answer the phone and I just being a nosy 15 year old girl, asking a lot of questions. And when he said his name, I only knew one other Darnell. I remembered his voice and I was like, Hey, do you remember me? Like we met on the bus and he's like, Yeah.

Juanita: Okay. So he came to my house [00:05:00] and then he and I, we became best friends, but then we dated for like three days and then I broke up with him. He's still hurt 23 years later. He needs to get over it, but in that process, he had like a sort of tumultuous home life. So he always spent time at my house. And he got to know my mom really well and he was always at my house.

Juanita: We did everything. He ate dinner with us. He even babysat my siblings. My mom was like a mom to him. And so then one day when I was going off to college, had a graduation party, that was the day he got arrested and we didn't hear from him. He was in my house so much that when we did not hear from him, we knew something was amiss.

Juanita: And so my mom went to find out what was going on and she ended up finding out he got arrested. We talked with him, obviously, you know, while he was incarcerated, we got letters. But from that time point, we never saw each other again physically. 

Amber: And [00:06:00] so how old was he at that time? 

Juanita: We were both 18. 

Amber: Okay. 

Juanita: He got arrested and charged with conspiracy to purchase and sell firearms across state.

Juanita: Virginia was the state. Before he moved to Boston, he lived in Lynchburg, Virginia with his mom and had not so great childhood. So dad got custody and that's how we met in Boston. He was born in Boston. 

Jason: So from 15 to 18, you would become friendly. He was somebody that you saw around all the time. All the time.

Jason: Yeah. All of a sudden he disappears, and this is your first time actually experiencing somebody 

Juanita: incarcerated. Yeah. 

Jason: So, what's going on in your mind? Like, are you freaking out? 

Juanita: Yeah, because, you know, We didn't know what happened. We didn't know what was going on. He shared things with my mom, but he didn't share some things with me.

Juanita: He spent a lot of time with my mom. I was a cheerleader at the time doing a lot of sports and stuff, but my [00:07:00] mom, because she took him and my cousin to sports. They spent a lot of time together. So there are things about his relationship like with his mom that he told her that he didn't want to share with me and fear that maybe as a kid because we were kids that I would reject him or take pity on him.

Juanita: We talk about this now, you know, take pity on him and he didn't want anyone having pity on him. He was someone who, because of the relationship between himself and his father, himself and his mom, he just learned to be really independent. And so that kind of bit him in the behind. So for me, having my close friend, because we were very close, incarcerated, that was a really hard time in my life.

Juanita: You know, he wasn't there for graduation. This was a type of relationship where if I called him or I paged him, pagers at the time, he would drop everything. Boyfriend, girlfriend didn't matter. He sat five hours with me one day while I got my hair braided just to be around so Him not being there for me to go to college And then when I got to [00:08:00] college like there were things that were going on in my life in college That I wanted to talk to my friend about it's funny because years later I did read to him my diary inserts about how I missed my friend.

Juanita: Um, but we wrote back and forth for eight years 

Jason: Were you mad at him? Were you upset with him? 

Juanita: I was You There's a period of time where we disconnected, and I'll get into that later, but when we reconnected, I expressed myself. I was very mad. I didn't understand. At that time, at 18, I didn't understand. He got 45 years.

Juanita: So, at 18 years old, I don't understand what 45 years is. I know it's a long time, and I told him, I'll see you next lifetime, which hurt his feelings. I didn't know. How do you maintain a friendship with someone doing prison time for 45 years? Right. You know, but I tried my hardest to keep him with me as I was in college, and then I went off to grad school.

Juanita: And, you know, at some point though, life hit eight years later. I tried, you [00:09:00] know, and then I disappeared. 

Jason: So for you at this point, you're going to school. You're upset about it. You're trying to keep in touch with him. 

Juanita: The funny thing is I would write him five and six page letters and literally tell him everything.

Juanita: I mean, I told him things that I wouldn't tell anybody else. Life was going on, but I tried to include him in the things that I was doing in college. Even people I was dating, I would write to him about. And I have all his letters still. He wrote to me in November of 1999 when he finally got sentenced. He took a plea for something else, but I'll explain that later.

Juanita: The first sentence was, I don't want you to be upset. I want you to focus on your education, your school. So don't worry about me. And then he told me about the 45 years and he's like, but I want you to do your best. This is a 19 year old kid, right? Telling me that. Yeah. Wow. And I have that letter. He just wanted me to do my best.

Juanita: He knew [00:10:00] I was really intelligent because I, I am, he was pushing me to do well, you know, he couldn't be there, but. 

Amber: And so as you're like receiving this communication from him and realizing at this point that your friend who seems pretty much like. Such a close friend that he's part of the family. I mean, eating dinner and, you know, having a relationship with your cousin and your mom and all of that, you get this communication, he's saying, I'm going to be serving 45 years.

Amber: I took a plea at that moment. What kind of understanding did you have of the criminal legal system? 

Juanita: I mean, I knew nothing about the criminal legal system at all. Like I said, I was just this 18 year old kid who was just like, okay, my friend's going away. Even then I didn't even realize what he was going away for.

Juanita: A couple of years later, I talked with him about it and found out what he really went away for. But back then I was just like, my friend's gone. I don't really understand. I'm going off to [00:11:00] college. I think my mom dealt with it more on the, what can I do part versus me who was just like, okay, well, I'll write to you.

Juanita: And I'll try and keep this going. Right. That, that was my thought process. It didn't immediately go to, okay, well we need to do this. And I had no clue. I'm like, okay, well you got in trouble. I don't really understand why. I don't even think I asked him like, why didn't you say anything to us? We just literally wrote back and forth as if this thing was going forward, right?

Juanita: Life was going on. I missed him. I told him that I wrote about it, but I was in college doing my thing, having fun. I told people about him. But my thought process was not, we need to get a lawyer. We need to do, you know, the things that I think of now. 

Amber: Right. Are you kind of evolved to that? I definitely have.

Amber: Yeah. Now at this point, you're 18, 19 years old. You're going to college. Were you [00:12:00] close enough to 

Juanita: visit at this point? He was in Virginia. He didn't want me to come visit and to be honest with you, I didn't want to see him that way, but he didn't want me to come. My mom did try to come, but he got in trouble and got put in a hole.

Juanita: So the night before she was supposed to see him, they called her and told her she couldn't see him and she just cried her eyes out. My mom would tell you that she mourned his incarceration like a child lost because they were that close. Even now when we talk about it, she cries. It's just something that she can't get past without crying.

Juanita: She remembered more than me because again, I went off to college and I was living the college life. She wanted to do something, but at the time she had two younger children. She didn't have the money to help in the way that, you know, you would think that you want to help like a lawyer, just something she didn't have the means for that.

Juanita: So that hurt her too. For me, we just went on [00:13:00] as friends. 

Jason: So do you think looking back, are there things that could have been done differently? Either by him, by you, by the system, that would have resulted in a different outcome. 

Juanita: Yeah, I definitely think so. It's so funny, you're asking all these questions that we've delved into multiple, multiple times.

Juanita: And I've thought about, very recently over the last couple of years, you know, one thing I said to him was, why didn't you tell us what was going on at home? Real quick, his father had called the probation officer on him when he left his dad's house. They weren't getting along, so he went to live with another family member, and that sent him back at 17 to Virginia, where he left and where the trouble had begun, you know, as an adolescent.

Juanita: And I said to him, you know, why didn't you tell us these things? You could have stayed with us. We could have done something at that point. 

Jason: So when he was living down in Virginia, it wasn't the best circumstances. And he basically escaped up to [00:14:00] Boston with family. And while he was there, he was sent back to Virginia.

Jason: and put back into that situation where if you had known about it, you might've been able to give him an alternative, uh, arrangement. 

Juanita: Yeah. There's a stark contrast between who he was before age 14, who he was after age 14. Before age 14, he was in and out of juvenile detention for fighting, missing school, got expelled from every school.

Juanita: And his mom didn't have a great relationship. His father figured at the time his grandfather had died when he was eight. And he admits that after that, everything went downhill. And just some context, he was born to teenage parents. His father was 14 when he was born. His mother was 17. And she took him from Boston from his dad, which I've had a conversation with his step mom and his dad about this when he was around maybe five and moved into Lynchburg.

Juanita: His mom was in an abusive relationship. His mother at some point was abusive towards him verbally. And so that was [00:15:00] his life before 14. So at 14, he would tell you that a judge was a reprieve for him and had his father take custody. And then from 14 to 17, he was a football player, track star. He was a teen peer educator.

Juanita: That's where he was going when we met to his job. His grandmother was a Massachusetts state representative here. That's For 30 years, she just retired in 2016. So he worked with her on her campaign, very close to her. Him and his dad, not so much. They just never really had the dad son relationship, but him and his paternal grandmother were very close.

Juanita: I've spent a lot of time with her. So when he and his dad got into it, he did go move with his grandmother and then eventually someone else, but that didn't sit well with his dad. And that's where the probation officer comes in because he was on probation from. Age 13. So that's where that comes in. They gave him a choice.

Juanita: Stay in mass, live with his dad, go to juvenile detention, or go back home to his [00:16:00] mother in Virginia. And he'll tell you emotionally, he chose to go back to Virginia. But I mean, at 17 years old, should you really be making that decision with other adults around? So he did that and got caught up with some guys and then brought that energy back at 18 to Boston.

Juanita: So that's where that goes. 

Amber: Wow. It seems like there were a lot of situations and some trauma and things that really developed into a new trajectory, if you will, for his life. We often talk on the podcast about different. Points where interventions with young people can really change their whole lives.

Amber: And so it's important to understand backgrounds and things like that, and how just even the smallest moments of Kindness from a teacher or a program or just understanding what someone is going through when [00:17:00] it comes to equality and what their day to day life and living situation looks like makes a huge difference for folks.

Amber: So I'm glad that you shared that because it really highlights what we need to be looking at rather than throwing people in cages. 

Juanita: Right. And I, I like often when I have this conversation about him to highlight that because eventually we'll get to what he ultimately pled guilty to. Um, but I like to give a background cause it's not just so simple.

Juanita: Sure. So yes, I think at that point when, you know, I say to him, well, why didn't you let my mom know, but he says, you know, I was in the probation office. And they gave me one option and they had a ticket for me. They got a ticket that moment and sent him back. He says, well, I didn't have time to call anybody.

Juanita: And he was only there in Virginia briefly because he turned 18, like three months. 

Amber: And then at that moment, he was absolutely a fully functioning adult, right? At eight. I always [00:18:00] like to say that, like one moment you're 17 and you just can't make decisions or whatnot. And then the next moment you're 18 and you 

Amber: know, your youth is gone.

Juanita: Right? Yeah. Yeah. You could pay rent, you know, 

Amber: right. 

Juanita: Take care of yourself. You know how to do your taxes. 18. 

Amber: Right. 

Juanita: Yeah. The problem was when he was here, he was in a youth program that we have here for young African American boys, but he met a friend there or associate there who would end up being a part of.

Juanita: What brought him down. So when he came back from Virginia, he linked up with this group again. He didn't go back home to like dad or anything. And his dad will tell you, he didn't know he was even in Boston. He saw him walking down the street one day and that's how he knew his son was back in Boston. But anyway, he linked up with these guys.

Juanita: I guess he told them that he knew how to buy guns in Virginia. Because he met some people there and he had done it before to make money, you know, [00:19:00] 18 fast money. That's what you want at 18, right? He was applying for work and eventually he did get a job, but the point is quick money. So they hatched a plan to go to Virginia.

Juanita: And so he and an associate, they, in July of 98, unbeknownst to myself or anyone else, went back to Virginia to go buy guns. And in the process, 

Jason: He's 18 years old, so he can now live on his own, do his own thing, but he really, he doesn't have a tremendous amount of resources. So he's trying for easy money, not really thinking through all the consequences.

Jason: So the idea is they're going to make some money by getting some guns and selling them in Boston. 

Juanita: Yeah. 

Jason: Yeah, it's not a brilliant plan, but it's his plan. 

Juanita: No, not a brilliant plan at all. 

Jason: Was there any opportunity for him to go on to college playing football or on an academic basis to get some help? 

Juanita: Not really.

Juanita: And I asked him, you know, did you want to go to college at that point? Cause he'd gone on a college [00:20:00] tour, but he was like, I wasn't really thinking about it like that. He had gotten an internship, Gillette, the razor companies here in South Boston. He worked there and had gotten an internship that he potentially could have worked at the company after high school, but he wasn't a football star or track star, but he was really good at speaking.

Juanita: He was really good at educating others, teens about drugs and sexually transmitted diseases. That's what his niche was. Because his father and his grandma were community activists, and that is actually some of the work that his dad was doing. I'm in the community for one of our children's hospitals here.

Juanita: So he was really good at that stuff. 

Jason: But he decided that that just wasn't for him at that point. It was easier to make the fast money. 

Juanita: While he applied for a job and while applying for the job, you know, he had some money that he made and then the guys were interested in, you know, making money. So he's like, okay, I can connect you guys because he's like, [00:21:00] I didn't need it at that time.

Juanita: I was getting a job, but I had the connect. Okay. At this point, he's living on his own. He's not going back to dad. 

Amber: Right. 

Juanita: I don't know how to survive like that, but he knew how to survive cause he'd done it before he was 14 years old. 

Jason: So really he's acting like a business developer. He's putting people together.

Jason: Yeah, that's what he's doing. He's got business development skills. 

Juanita: He does. And it's funny because now that we talk, he has a whole business plan of what he'd like to do when he gets out. So he had that mindset then. So anyway, they go, he and the other guy go to Virginia, July. Let's keep in mind, this is four months after turning 18.

Juanita: He basically 17. Right, 

Amber: right. 

Juanita: They go, they meet the connect, he introduces them, he goes to his mom's house. In the process of the exchange, the associate that he came with gets murdered. But he wasn't there and he has maintained his innocence [00:22:00] to this day. He doesn't know who did it because he wasn't there.

Juanita: He was at his mom's at the time. But then when he went back to meet, he saw him dead. So he went back to his mom's house and he didn't say anything. He's thinking, how am I going to get out of this? This is not what the plan was. So he ultimately comes up with a dumb plan. And I'm going to say that and I've said it to him.

Juanita: So it's not a surprise. To burn the car that had the victim in it. He's like, I just wanted to disassociate myself from this period. Takes his stuff out. And he admitted to that. That's the other thing he admits to that he's a bad liar. So he admitted to that. And then he gets on a plane back to Boston. Now, people who buy guns usually have guns.

Juanita: I always say that. So when they went, he had a gun and I think his associate had a gun, not clear. But. He gives his mother's boyfriend the gun because he can't get on the plane with it, and he goes off. The mother's boyfriend gives the gun to some friend that did some [00:23:00] work on his car or something like that.

Juanita: I don't know. Gives it away. Darnell is then questioned twice en masse. The second time he turns himself in because he knew they were asking questions about the gun sales, that's when he's arrested. And that was August 24th of 1998. That was my graduation party day. Wow. So, initially he's charged with the conspiracy to purchase guns.

Juanita: And then at some point he gets charged with capital murder, robbery, arson, and use of a firearm in the commission of a felony. He said one night they woke him up and gave him new charges. So he planned from 98 to 99 to go to trial because his mom was his alibi. He knew he wasn't there. He has been adamant for 23 years that he was not there.

Juanita: He turned down multiple pleas. He was going to fight for this. A month before his trial, so August of 1999, so a year to the date that he got [00:24:00] arrested, his mom says that she can't testify for him because she no longer remembers the details. And I don't know if you've ever seen the Spongebob meme where it's just going like this, and he's just in a daze.

Juanita: Okay, well, there's this funny meme. He said it reminds him of just sitting in a meme and the room is spinning. He's like, I don't even know what else she said because at that point he was like, I'm being told I'm going to get the death penalty. 

Amber: Right. 

Juanita: At 19 years old. And this person is telling me that she can't remember any more details.

Juanita: And now in between this, I guess her boyfriend's car got shot up while Darnell was in prison. 

Amber: Right. 

Juanita: Now, mind you, Darnell wasn't a shot caller or anything like that. He just wasn't that type. They did ask him, did he know anything about it? He's like, no, how? I'm in prison. So end of the day, she said she couldn't remember.

Juanita: They came to him with a plea for first degree arson and firearm, [00:25:00] 45 years. And his plea deal, the judge asked him, you know, do you plead guilty to this? He's like, no, he pled guilty to the arson, but he's signing the plea because it's in his best interest. 

Jason: So before we go much further, I have to ask this question.

Jason: This is Virginia, correct? Yes. From your perspective, has race played a role in his treatment by the Commonwealth of Virginia at this phase? 

Juanita: I, I would probably say yeah, his associate was not African American, his associate was white, and he will tell you he's like, I'm a black 19 year old kid in the south, Lynchburg, Virginia, the person killed is why he's like, they want to make an example.

Juanita: There was only circumstantial evidence. And in actuality, if you [00:26:00] read the plea, there wasn't enough evidence to actually charge him with capital murder. They couldn't prove the robbery. So I do think race, I think race plays a role every single time from beginning to end. 

Amber: Yeah. So, at this point, this whole transaction, if you will, him going down there, all of that, getting mixed up with the wrong people, however everything transpired, somebody lost their life.

Amber: Right. And of course there's some sort of investigation that goes along trying to figure out what happened. So, he's in a situation where obviously he's in a panic and he's trying to figure out what is the solution to this situation. Made some decisions that were not the best, but here his world is spinning.

Amber: And then in his proceedings, which seemed to have kind of been like an up and down roller coaster, the only [00:27:00] person that can corroborate an alibi for him says, no, I can't do this for you for whatever reason. So he's at this point where he's like, he's facing death. So I heard you say during his plea proceeding.

Amber: that he said this is in my best interests. And I'm also glad that you highlighted that it seems like there was not enough evidence for a capital murder charge. Otherwise they would not be coming with this plea. So this gives a little bit of insight for our listeners into how these things happen. And I really appreciate you sharing all of that about the story because There's a lot of nuance.

Amber: And then when we talk about race, I'm actually in the process of reading Helen Prejean's book, Dead Man Walking, and 85 percent of cases where there are victims and capital murder cases that are white, they're [00:28:00] seeking the death penalty. So when you're thinking about all of those things, and he's thinking about, you know, here I am in the South as a black male.

Amber: This is a terrifying situation. So I always like to highlight, especially since we're really in the process of trying to have people really understand and empathize with what goes on in the criminal legal system, these plea deals and why someone would take a plea deal. So thank you for sharing that.

Juanita: Yeah. So he ends up signing the plea for the 45 years for first degree arson and homicide. And then he says, after he signed, his lawyer went on TV and said that there wasn't enough evidence to convict for a capital murder. And even in the plea deal it says that they couldn't prove robbery at all because both he and the victim had money.

Juanita: So then when he sat there and he listened to that, [00:29:00] in essence, he could have still gone to trial because that's what they were charging with. He said his lawyer knew that, but they didn't say that to him. What they said was, if you go to trial, you can get the death penalty. So he said, you know, in hindsight, if he knew then what he knows now, he would not have signed a plea deal.

Juanita: But he said, I was a kid and I'm being told I'm going to die. So he figured, under the guidelines that they showed him, which he said ended up not being up to date. He figured, okay, well, if I make this decision, I'll be out in like maybe 20 years. If that, well, here we are 23 year, year 23 started. It affects him to this day, even when we have the conversation, because he's like, I didn't murder this person.

Juanita: I did the arson because I didn't know what else to do. He's like, but even still, whether I did it or not, I set up the meeting. I told them about the guns. So he [00:30:00] takes responsibility. I want to be clear about that because if anyone's listening, you know, he takes responsibility for the role that he had in connecting the person with the other people.

Juanita: And that is what bothers him because if he had not, this would not have been the situation. 

Jason: And so, I mean, that's got to weigh heavily on him. There's the accountability aspect to, to the law, but then there's the accountability to yourself and to know if you're that age and you've done that, you know, you have some responsibility in what happened.

Jason: That's gotta be a very heavy, heavy burden to carry that he's never really been able to process. 

Juanita: Exactly. And so I wish you guys could have a conversation with him. He's like, every day I've lived this over and over again and I can't take it back. And so then he grew up in prison. 

Amber: Yeah, because he's 18, 19 years old going into a prison [00:31:00] system and you were communicating with him through that time.

Amber: Tell us a little bit about, you know, what that looked like. 

Juanita: So it's funny because I compare our emails and stuff now to my letters then, and we're talking about a kid to a grown man. You can see the transition. Then he was in denial. Of the time that he received because he would write me and say, when I get out, we're going to go this place.

Juanita: I'm gonna take you here. I'm like 45 years. Right. But I'm writing back like, okay, cool. You know, not thinking about it. He was always hyper vigilant. There was always going to be a fight or something, had to watch his back, people trying him, having to prove himself, 1920, you know, you're proving yourself in prison so that you can survive essentially.

Juanita: Right. And he spent many years in denial of the time he received he used to write and say I want to come home I can't wait till I get home. And [00:32:00] then I guess finally at some point it hit him you're not coming home. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Juanita: For a little while, there was some anger, depression, in the letters he wrote. Anger at the loss of relationships, friendships.

Juanita: Not having freedom, living in this cell wall, being able to write me on one piece of paper and I gotta wait till I get stamps again. Mm hmm. Can you send me money? 

Jason: Are you his biggest lifeline? 

Juanita: Yeah. 

Jason: What has that done in terms of relationships that you've had with other people and what kind of impact? 

Juanita: So I'm actually married and I told my husband about him a long time ago.

Juanita: We disconnected for about 10 years from age 26 after grad school to 36. And then I went looking for him, you know, in my mind, I told my friend I'd be with him for 45 years. So I went looking for him and I told my husband about him. I've [00:33:00] explained our relationship, how close we were. I mean, I'm his power of attorney.

Juanita: I'm his emergency contact. And these are things I got in place last year. We've been in contact four years, but three of those years on and off. And I think on and off because I wasn't in a place where I could be who I am right now for him today. 

Jason: How long have you been married? 

Juanita: Six years, but we've been together 15 years.

Jason: Okay. 

Juanita: Yeah. And it's funny because the time that I met my husband is the time when we, Darnell and I separated, where I just kind of went on about my life at that point at 26. 

Jason: Yeah. So, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Like you've invested a ton of emotional energy into Darnell, who if he'd been out, he would have been a friend of yours, who knows what would have happened, but like we just said, you're his lifeline.

Jason: So that relationship is so important. You carry that. And then letting that go for a few years freed you up to go and find the person you were going to be with. You were able to get married and I'm just curious [00:34:00] how that ends up factoring in when you bring Darnell back into your life. 

Juanita: Well, he's looking forward to being an uncle.

Juanita: He's looking forward to my mom cooking for him. Cause I don't cook. I'm allergic to kitchen. Oh, me too. He's looking forward to actually meeting my husband because the one thing he always said, and he would always write to me is he is very happy that I have someone to support me and that treats me well, because there are things that I went through that I didn't necessarily say till recently, and it really, it really caused an emotional effect on him.

Juanita: Right. Right. He thought there were things that I passed over and I didn't actually do that. I actually went through them. So to have someone that takes care of me, he's very happy about. What I have learned in this process though, is that not everybody's going to have that same emotion or that same drive for this situation.

Juanita: And it's because, you know, they haven't personally been affected by it. So I can't take things personally. [00:35:00] But I'm very clear on who he is in my life. 

Jason: How do you react when you hear people say things like lock them up and throw away the key? 

Juanita: I get upset a little bit, but then there's a part of me I can't, because if you have never been affected by it, that's your mindset, right?

Juanita: But then there's education that needs to be done because if you don't know what's going on in the prison system or how people are treated from the beginning to the end, then you're going to have that mindset. So I educate people. I use him as education. He's given me permission to tell his story, to talk about him, to say all the good things that he's now doing after essentially growing up.

Jason: So is there something that we haven't covered that you'd want to talk about that you use as an example? 

Juanita: He's not who he was at 18. He's a 40 year old man. And like all of us out here who have gone through life in our teens and our twenties, and we've done the stupid years. [00:36:00] Into our thirties, potentially for some people like us, he had the light bulb turned on in his head and was like, I actually want to be out at some point.

Juanita: You know, I have no more years to do in here. Cause technically he has 18 more years. And he's like, I don't have those 18 years to do. And so because I don't, this is what I've done now to change my life. He's only had one major infraction. And that was a cell phone that was in 2015. And after that, he said, no more, I'm just not engaging in any activities.

Juanita: You know, in prison, that would get him in trouble. 

Jason: You know, you're saying he's not the person he was and he went through a name change and it just reminds me of, you know, I I'm Jewish and there's a whole story about how Jacob changes his name to Israel. You know, when he wrestles with God, it's like his name becomes Israel and he becomes an adult person.

Jason: He's not the kid he was when he was younger. I mean, do you feel that there was that kind of a transformation [00:37:00] and that's why the name change that he doesn't identify? As Darnell, that he's actually somebody that's completely different. And now he's a different individual. 

Juanita: Yes. That's exactly how he explained it.

Juanita: Because my first thing was, where's this come from? That is exactly how he described it as well as the fact that his mom was adopted. So he's like, there's no real ties to that last name. You know, he didn't have his dad's last name. Um, he had his mother's adopted last name, so he didn't really feel connected to that name or the person.

Juanita: Yeah. He wanted to shed that person. So 

Jason: that's pretty powerful. The fact that Darnell went in and sincere is going to come out. 

Juanita: That is very powerful. Yeah. And Darnell went in as this angry kid, you know, angry at life, angry at the world. You know, he's gone through periods of thinking about suicide, depression, fighting.

Juanita: Just doing things that he wasn't supposed to because there were periods where he didn't have anyone, he had to survive. The one thing I want people to also understand, because there's this thing about violent and [00:38:00] non violent, right? Non violent offenders and violent offenders. Prison is violent. Thank you.

Juanita: I have to say that prison is a violent environment. It is a survival of the fittest environment. We understand that we know when we see that the weak get taken advantage of, and then others, they have to fight. They have to do things to survive in there. And so even the most noble person is going to do what they have to do to survive, right?

Juanita: We here in the outside world do what we need to do to survive, whether it's for our families, whether it's for our job or whatever the case may be times that by 10 in prison, I'm not built for prison. So when people are like, Oh, well, you can do this in prison and I could do this. You know, no, you can't say you would do anything until you got into that environment, period.

Juanita: I'm 

Amber: so glad that you brought that up because I think that idea [00:39:00] of proximity is so important because what goes on behind the walls is such a secretive type of thing and it's like out of sight, out of mind. And so that degree of separation creates this, well, if I don't see it, maybe it's not happening for the general public.

Amber: Right. Did Sincere have any, opportunities in prison to experience programming or things that were supportive, any type of mental health treatment, things that may have helped him walk through some of the trauma that he's experienced. 

Juanita: When you are convicted of things like murder, capital murder, or violent felonies, Your ability to get into programs is less than somebody who's serving less time and for a nonviolent offense.

Juanita: They have more programmatic opportunities. So what I love telling people what he did was he's always been a nice person, [00:40:00] very sincere, sincere fits his actual character. He was never a violent person at all. And so because of that, he built relationships. In prison with whether it's the guards or whether it's administrative staff that helped him to actually get into programs that he otherwise would not be able to because of his time and his conviction.

Juanita: So he earned his GED in 2004. He's always maintained employment. In prison, he's done business courses. He took two college courses. As of 2016, he became what's called a SAM coordinator. So in Virginia, they have a program called the Shared Allied Management Program. And it's for people that have mental health issues and substance abuse.

Juanita: So they have a specific pod for that group of people. And he applied to be a therapeutic aide. It's sort of like a liaison between the incarcerated and then the staff members and helping when two people are having maybe a [00:41:00] fight or an argument, kind of like the go between to kind of stop that facilitating programs.

Juanita: And he actually created his own program called personal growth. It's a four phase program. I love explaining it because it's teaching people to have goals, you know, because what he found is a lot of men don't have goals. You need to have goals. That's how you keep going. You need to have goals for the inside.

Juanita: You need to have goals for when you get out. And so his program teaches them to have goals, build leadership skills, grow interpersonally and intrapersonally. So within and on the outside with each other, he developed that program and has facilitated it. 

Amber: Wow, that's exciting. 

Juanita: Yeah, I'll send it to you guys.

Juanita: I have the program because I was like, oh, I need to do this with my girlfriends 

Amber: Right. It sounds like something that we could all use. I mean who doesn't need goals? 

Juanita: Right. It is a useful program. So he's done that and he's also Gotten multiple multiple certificates because he'd like to be a peer recovery [00:42:00] specialist And that's someone on the outside that works with people with substance abuse and mental health issues.

Juanita: And so for that, he's gotten certificates in alcohol anonymous and narcotics anonymous for people with mental health issues, anger management for people with substance abuse, mindfulness training certifications. He actually got certified in yoga. He tells me all the time to go do yoga. 

Amber: So it really seems like he's unlocking a lot of that potential.

Juanita: Yeah, he has coordinated his certifications to go with what he'd like to do on the outside. Sure. 

Jason: If he were to get out of prison tomorrow, what would he do based on those goals and the plan? 

Juanita: Well, the first thing he'd like to do is get a job. He's very clear that he wants to get a job. He understands that it'll take him time to get to where he'd like to be, but he wants to work.

Juanita: And then he wants my mom's lasagna, but mainly working. He wants to [00:43:00] work, he wants to mentor other youth. Yeah, those are the first two things that he'd want to get involved in. 

Amber: So, when he thinks about what his ideal work would be, would that be the mentorship? Would that be working with people with mental health or addiction issues?

Amber: Is that his ideal situation? 

Juanita: That is. His ultimate is to have his own facility that people can go to with those type of issues. 

Jason: When we first were talking about having you on the podcast, there were a couple other people that were potentially going to come on with you. Who were those other people? 

Juanita: So, Santia Nance and Paulettra James, I met them through the advocacy work.

Juanita: They live in Virginia, but they're We've met on Twitter. I kind of like hanging out on Twitter. Amber knows I'm on Twitter. 

Amber: I know that. 

Juanita: So Santia and I met because her story is sort of similar. And then Paula and I met through some of the [00:44:00] stuff on Facebook. And we created a group called Sisters in Prison Reform.

Juanita: We call it the SIP, because all three of us have our loved ones who are serving time greater than 10 years behind the walls. 

Amber: So what is the 32nd elevator speech for SIPP? 

Juanita: So basically our goal is to be a voice for those who have been sentenced to 10 plus years behind the walls who are often forgotten in reform.

Juanita: Reform is for non violent and these are people who are not violent individuals and deserve a second chance. They've been gone for decades. It's time to let them out. They've worked and rehabilitated. They've grown up, you know, in essence, and it's time to let them out. They have families. And so we want to be their voice.

Juanita: We want to shout for them, advocate for them, advocate for legislative change. 

Amber: I think I did see recently that you were involved in some efforts, doing some advocacy, and there was some disappointment there. [00:45:00] Would you like to talk a little bit about that? 

Juanita: Yeah. So yesterday, Senator John Edwards in Virginia proposed Senate bill 1370 for parole, Virginia abolished parole back in 1995.

Juanita: And that bill yesterday on the Senate was passed by indefinitely for more study by the crime commission. The problem is, is the Crime Commission has studied this parole for the last 25 years, a hundred million times. And you don't need a hundred million studies to tell you that warehousing people is not how you punish people.

Juanita: They go in, they serve their time. If they want to, they do programs that are available for them. They show that they've been rehabilitated, and that's by doing their program, staying out of trouble. And then you let them out parole them into society where they can be functioning adult. And so they passed it by again and I just don't think that they're ready for big change, [00:46:00] I mean they're moving forward with mandatory minimums, and the Senate, Senator Edwards did.

Juanita: Proposed mandatory minimums for all, but not retroactive. So again, that's amazing, you know, but you still have people right now, 41 percent of African Americans in Virginia prison who have been incarcerated for mandatory minimums. What about them? Right. I think it's great. You want to do things for the future, but you've got a whole generation of people that are still incarcerated because of laws that we know were wrong.

Juanita: They were racist. And so that's what the SIP likes to point attention to. 

Amber: So I'm really glad that you are bringing attention to that. And I want to call attention to the journey and the disappointment. Sometimes that comes with advocacy. Sometimes there are wins. Sometimes there are losses and there's small step forward and really kind of.

Amber: Picking yourself back up and playing the long game. I know [00:47:00] that you guys are doing that, but it is important to acknowledge the disappointment and take care of yourself and things like that. This is something that I have definitely learned in my time in advocacy, because it can be very disappointing when you stand in front of people and you say, this is what happened to me.

Amber: And this is my story. And sometimes you get an idealist view that if legislators just knew what was happening. They would definitely change their mind, but you know, I've had sometimes people agree with me behind closed doors and then just say, I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do. So it is groups like SIP and other groups that are out there that continue doing that hard work and that hard organizing and speaking up that are going to make the change, but it is a long game.

Amber: So I wanted to call attention. 

Jason: How old is sincere now? 

Juanita: So before you went in March, 

Jason: so his risk of having serious complications with COVID or not. [00:48:00] 

Juanita: He had COVID. 

Jason: He had. 

Amber: He 

Amber: had COVID. 

Juanita: He did. He was asthmatic and he had COVID, his whole pod had COVID and he kept saying he had some shortness of breath. He needed to use his inhaler more often and then he tested positive for COVID.

Juanita: That really bummed him out because it was right before the new year. And so he's like, I'm going into the new year with COVID. He's better now. He does have some residual effects with shortness of breath. And a little bit of a cough, but he's better now. 

Jason: I'm sorry to hear it. You know, I'm not surprised.

Jason: We've seen across the country, so many prisons having these outbreaks in Connecticut. We're a small state and there've been 19 deaths and it's just horrific. 

Juanita: Yeah. 

Jason: So I'm sorry. And it must be very, very scary for him. 

Juanita: Yeah. 

Jason: You know, one of the things I I'm just thinking about that I've never really thought about is.

Jason: Even in prison, you form friendships, [00:49:00] and even if he's okay, he might end up seeing somebody else become really sick or possibly dying because of COVID, and that has to take an emotional toll, too. 

Juanita: The funny thing is, most of his friends are now out. They've been paroled. I actually talk with them all the time.

Juanita: They all check on me. But yeah, his roommate, I mean, just seeing that and knowing that, and people were getting COVID just like that, you know, he would call me and tell me about things. 

Amber: And so you were in communication with him pretty tightly because, you know, when we talk to different people, it's kind of a hit or miss depending on where somebody is.

Amber: It's hard to get information. If somebody gets COVID, maybe they're, you know, put into an isolation where they don't even have their things. They don't have the same ability to make phone calls. What does that look like where he is? 

Juanita: Oh, we talk every day. 

Amber: That's wonderful. 

Juanita: We talk every day by phone, we talk by video visits, by email.

Juanita: We've actually been talking like this for the last year. 

Amber: And does [00:50:00] that come with a cost? 

Juanita: Oh, it's expensive, honey. 

Amber: Right. 

Juanita: Look, if I wasn't in the position that I am at career wise, I don't know how families do it. 

Amber: Yeah. 

Juanita: It's 7 for 20 stamps, 10 for 40 stamps. If you send pictures, it's more stamps. It's 8 for 20 minutes or a video visit, 20 for 50 minutes on a video visit.

Juanita: And then the phone calls are like four cents a minute, but. Depending on how often you talk with somebody that can go by in a week. 

Amber: Right. 

Juanita: So yeah, it's expensive just to be connected to family. Right. 

Amber: Right. So it's different in different states. They have different types of contracts and so on and so forth.

Amber: But by and large, families who do not have the means to communicate with their loved ones are at a significant disadvantage. Or you have situations, so like for instance, when my husband was incarcerated, we were [00:51:00] spending upwards of 400 or 500 a month. And we had to get assistance from friends and family.

Amber: It was like, do I pay for my heat or do I keep my husband connected to our kids? So this is an area that people really need to continue to speak out on. Because even here in Connecticut, for instance, they're just bringing in tablets. They're. calling it staying connected to families. However, there won't be video visits on the tablets and it will come at a significant cost to families.

Amber: And there's a whole huge kickback to the state, which is really the purpose of doing it. So it just becomes very costly for families and at the expense of connection. 

Jason: I just have another unrelated. I'm just, we can take this in a million directions, but so Joshua Ho and Decarceration Nation just did a podcast episode this week on food.

Jason: Has he told you about the food? 

Juanita: It's horrible. The food is horrible. The [00:52:00] good thing is he gets things on commissary. He essentially for the last year because I've been listening to him and what he cooks if it's not something like a Taco or whatever it is that they make then he eats rice and fish. He doesn't eat a lot of red meat He doesn't eat pork at all.

Juanita: He doesn't eat pancakes or anything like that. He'll eat oatmeal boiled egg or His rice and his fish. He's not a junk food person Though I did just buy him cheddar ruffles on the counter. But he's very sort of stringent because he likes to work out. So he doesn't really indulge. But another friend of mine told me in the pandemic, they were getting like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, old cabbage, terrible chicken patties, things like that.

Jason: You know, we've talked for a while before we end. My question is, is there anything big that we've missed? And also, [00:53:00] Amber mentioned the organization. Do you want to plug that or anything else, anything you want? You can tell us what's important to you. 

Juanita: Well, I spent nine months this past summer putting together his pardon.

Juanita: I essentially Learned how to be a lawyer and I put it together all by myself. And so I put that in, in November. So hopefully somebody sees it. Governor Northam sees it. I'm very proud of it. The sisters in prison reform. We do have a website. S I S T A S I N prison reform. 

Jason: com. 

Juanita: Yeah. 

Jason: Okay. 

Juanita: And we'll put that in the podcast notes as well.

Juanita: Yes, you go there, it has the three of us, who we are. It also has the guys and who they are. So you can learn about their stories and what they've done. We put their awards and all those things. I would like to say that Sincere has gotten a number of awards and leadership in his help to other incarcerated people.

Juanita: He got a [00:54:00] giving award, meaning giving of himself and his time. I'd like people to know if you're listening, that he is an amazing person. And we often say that. Our decade apart was for us to grow as individuals in order for me to come back and pick him back up so I can bring him home. So I'd like people to know that he is not a violent individual.

Juanita: He is a person of his circumstance and he will tell you that prison is what helped him, you know, because who knows what he might have been going down and the things that he'd gotten into, but it is not all who he is. He's a man now. And you know, I think about rehab. I kind of think that's useful for someone that might have been doing things multiple times or multiple in and out, but he was a kid.

Juanita: And so I say he's grown up. Right? Right. He's grown up, unfortunately, in prison. He had to learn how to be a man and Responsibility and all those [00:55:00] things in prison. And so who he is today is Amazing and he deserves to be out So think about that when we're when we're using terms like violent and nonviolent look at the individual the individual story You know, we can't lump people together You know, I thank you guys for listening.

Amber: I'm so glad that you spent time with us today and really highlighted his story, your story. I think that the work that you're doing is amazing. And I just am so thrilled that you highlighted the violent nonviolent because we, as a country have really gone down that road. And what I always like to say is violence is not a state of being.

Amber: Violence is behavior. It's a moment in time. It happens in context. And so to be labeling people as violent, non violent, this type of offense, that type of offense, is exactly the wrong strategy. So thank you [00:56:00] so much for sharing that, sharing your story, and being with us. Jason, did you have any last thoughts?

Jason: I thank you Juanita for being here and sharing the journey from Garnell to Sincere. And it was a pleasure to talk with you and I hope people do check out your website. These men should be with us on this side. 

Juanita: Yeah. 

Amber: We are certainly going to be pulling for you and pulling for Sincere and all of our brothers and sisters behind the walls who have done that hard work and should be with us.

Amber: So thank you again. 

Juanita: Thank you. 

Jason: Until next time, Amber. 

Amber: We'll see you next time.

Announcer: You've been listening to Amplified Voices, a podcast listing the experiences of people and families impacted by the criminal legal system. For more information, episodes, and [00:57:00] podcast notes, visit amplifiedvoices. show.