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Overcoming the Divide: Nonpartisan Politics
Fostering insightful political discourse and debate.
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Overcoming the Divide: Nonpartisan Politics
What does Gen Z Really Want in Life? Corporate Jobs, Entrepreneurship, & More w/ Gavin Fernand
Ever found yourself at the crossroads of a traditional 9-5 and the magnetic pull of personal aspirations? Today's episode bridges that gap with an enlightening dialogue featuring Gavin Fernand, the tech sales dynamo and brain behind the thriving social media community, Corporate Dudes. With insights that slice through the generational stereotypes, Gavin shares his own corporate pilgrimage, divulging how it catalyzed a movement that champions the unconventional in the professional sphere. As we navigate workplace desires, financial freedom, and the pursuit of purpose, this conversation promises an eye-opening look at the Gen Z heartbeat.
The corporate ladder isn't the only path to success, and that's a message echoing loud and clear in the lives of Gen Z professionals. We journey through the changing dynamics of today's work environment, where the allure of entrepreneurship and the flexibility it offers is upstaging the traditional 9-to-5 setup. Gavin, with his finger on the pulse of this trend, underscores how his followers fuel his mission, revealing the pivotal role of community in the digital era. From the growing pains of adulting to the quest for independence, this episode is a toast to the trailblazers crafting their own narrative amid the ever-evolving employment landscape.
Wrap up your day with a dose of authenticity as we reflect on the challenges and triumphs of modern career paths. Hear stories of individuals grappling with the corporate grind, the sacrifices made at the altar of ambition, and the burning question of whether the journey is worth the destination. Gavin leaves us pondering the true cost of success, and whether aligning passion with profession might just be the most rewarding venture of all. This candid chat isn't just about careers; it's an ode to the dreamers and doers redefining what it means to work, live, and thrive in a world where the only constant is change.
0:00 Gen Z Life and Work Desires
9:22 Changing Work Dynamics for Gen Z
24:26 Finding Excitement in Everyday Life
27:50 Transitioning Into Adulthood and Independence
36:20 Challenges Facing Millennials and Gen Z
50:00 Navigating Career Paths and Personal Aspirations
1:00:12 Appreciation for Social Media Support
Recorded: 3/26
Intro: Metropolis Nights- penguinmusic
Outro: Powerful Beat- penguinmusic
Do you ever wonder what Gen Z wants in their life, both in the office, their purpose, financial freedom, flexible work options. Does that thought ever come across you? Because today we're diving into all that what Gen Z really wants in life and the workplace. Welcome to Overcoming the Divide, a platform dedicated to insightful political discourse and debate. This conversation is with Gavin Fernand. Gavin is the owner of a social media community, corporate Dudes. The page is a mix between funny and relatable memes, both in the workplace and elsewhere, but also content aimed at inspiring people to look for more and beyond just their nine to five. Gavin himself is a recent college grad who currently works in tech sales, but has the aspirations to run and own his own business in the near future. If you enjoy this conversation, find it valuable, entertaining anything in between that you like, please go ahead and hit that subscribe button, and if you even like it a bit more, please share it with a friend and, without further ado, welcome to the show. Welcome to the show, gavin. Really happy to have you here today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, Daniel.
Speaker 1:Of course, and kind of like saying context for the audience here. You run a popular social media page and I came across it not too long ago, found quite a value in it and thought it was pretty interesting, intriguing. But could you tell me about that page, what's what's called, what inspired you to start it? And we can go from there?
Speaker 2:awesome. Yeah, thank you, daniel. So, uh, I run the page corporate dudes and the reason I started I'm a recent college grad. I just got out of college last may and you know, so just started the world of I have a salesman like entry level and, uh, you know, making that change from college into working life, like it's definitely a a big change. It's like you you're really kind of on your own for the first time and, uh, you know, I just kind of feel like I kind of shared like this, uh, it's kind of feeling that you know, like there's gotta be, gotta be more to, to, like, you know, professional world than just than just this, like entry-level stuff, kind of like mundane tasks and stuff and um you know I've always kind of been like entrepreneurial minded in a way.
Speaker 2:You know I've like run like kind of like a bunch of other side stuff. This is kind of something I just started. I found the content interesting and I didn't really see that there's a lot of pages like it. So I kind of like saw like a kind of an opportunity for it and honestly, I kind of started just for fun, just for my own personal enjoyment with like me and my buddies at the office. And then, like one day, like then there's like one video that just took it up to like 10k followers and it's kind of just been like steadily growing since then. And you know, now it's like this whole thing.
Speaker 2:I started just kind of like a joke kind of, and now it's like you know, now there's people like approaching for like brand deals and stuff like that, and it's just like you know, it definitely is a little wild, but I mean happy to be here though yeah, that is pretty wild and that happened over the course of a year really, because you said you graduated last may yeah, I mean, I actually started this account in late january, so it's it's only been like what, like two and a half months, yeah, so yeah I've ran other social media pages as well, like I've had a page that, um, you know, it's taken like a year to get to the point of where this page is at, which is kind of crazy how fast this one's grown in comparison to other stuff we've done.
Speaker 2:But I mean, yeah it's, it's kind of just going to show like you really, just you know, you get a couple of viral videos like you're following and just skyrocket, you know for sure, and you said you graduated in May and then you started your sales job.
Speaker 2:Did you move to a new city for that, or what's that looking like for you? And I feel like it just made me kind of think. Like you know, like I have all this time, luckily, with my job, it's like pretty, like the work-life balance is pretty good. So you know a lot of remote days and stuff like that. So I feel like I had all this time just sitting around and I was like I should be using this in some sort of way. You know. I mean like so I started kind of just like getting into, like you know, like trying a bunch of stuff. Like I've seen like people make money on social media page. I've seen, like you know, drop shipping. So I try to hold a bunch of things until something hit, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and did you try that soon after joining? Or like encountering the professional world, where that takes a couple months?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was probably like a month. I started trying like a bunch of stuff. So I started working in probably june of 2023. So that's when I kind of started trying things and, like you know, almost everything I tried was, like you know, didn't really work or didn't work like enough for me to be like I can't like put like putting so much time into this, not getting like much value back, so I mean. But then, like, when I started making an instagram page, like I kind of like liked it a lot. I enjoyed like the like creating, like relatable content. I like liked, like you know, making. Like the content I make I also relate to as well. So it's not like it's like super hard stuff to like curate. So I definitely like enjoyed a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you said the relatable and you said they're relatable content. And you know most of your content is pretty funny, but there's also a portion of your feed that really deep, takes a dive into more like meaningful topics and has these more poignant messages about kind of discovering what you want to be, how you want to spend your life, why am I even doing this mundane job? Things of that nature.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious. Yeah, so that was kind of like that was almost a feeling I kind of started having before I was going to graduate college. I was thinking about it. I was like you know, I got this job and like I was like I should be like super happy. It's like a, you know, decent paying job at the college or you know just getting a job at college in general that you should be happy about.
Speaker 2:So I mean, um, but I was just like I've always like kind of like thought, like you know, that I would do something on my own, like build something for myself. And I was like, it's like when I actually started, like you know, working for someone else not like I don't like who I work for at all and it's nothing to do with them, it's more just like it really started being like like this is like the time.
Speaker 2:So, like you know, you need to figure out like how to build something for yourself. Because, just like the idea for me of like working your entire life I know that article you sent kind of touched on that. Like you know, I know a lot of like our parents generation like it's like, oh yeah, you go to your job, you work there for like 50 years, you retire 60 and, like you know, that's your life, right there, and just that doesn't really sound like too interesting to me, honestly, like it sounds like like torture to me. Like I feel like I need to. I need to, even if I'm not going to make as much money. I know it's not like guaranteed, um, I just feel like I just have this feeling I really want to build something for myself and just like I love doing it. Like I work 80 hours a week doing something for like myself, then like 40 hours a week for like someone else yeah, why is that than like 40?
Speaker 1:hours a week for like someone else? Yeah, why is that? Why do you think that is? Do you think it's a? You said like you don't have a bad employer, you have a good relationship with your boss, and maybe I'm speckling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, yeah, a hundred percent yeah.
Speaker 1:But why is it? Is it really the principle? Is it like what's um?
Speaker 2:what do you behind what's behind that, underlying that thought? I just feel like the uh, like the freedom of it I know I mentioned like my job gives a lot of freedom also and there, honestly, is like two parts to it like the freedom of just like you know, like you're in charge of the business operations, like you're in sure you make your own schedule, all that. Like there's not like someone like over your like you know, like over your shoulder, telling you do things, and like you know you know what needs to be done.
Speaker 2:You do it. So it's freedom part. That's one of it. The other one just like. Uh, like I take a lot of pride in just the stuff like that, like like making it on your own, doing it on your own. I feel like it's very prideful and it just feels like very fulfilling to me to like, you know, like make this work from on my own and like working for someone else, just like it. Just it's kind of like almost boring for me. I was trying to find a better word, but it really is just kind of like often, just kind of sitting there like just like thinking about, like when I can like finally like work for myself completely and not have to like have this, this job. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Quick PSA. This country needs you. The goal of the show is to retake the public square and fill it with insightful political discourse and debate that is beneficial to people's lives and helps them make more informed decisions and think about issues in a more holistic sense, and the only way to do that is having conversations at scale. So if you find value in this conversation, enjoy it. I please ask you to hit that little link button, copy it and share it with a friend who may, like it, become part of the movement to improve public discourse in our society and in this country. Thank you. Now back to the show. Yeah, yeah, and you're definitely not alone.
Speaker 1:That article that, uh, gavin, you're referring to was that something by mbc, I believe it was or msnbc, that say that 50 of gen z corporate employees want to quit their jobs and go into business for themselves. In essence and I do want to read out some stats for you and get your thoughts on them so, according according to a study by Intuit Credit Karma, they found, when serving over a thousand Gen Z workers, that 60% of them say that their traditional nine to five jobs are soul sucking, with 43% saying that they have no desire to work a traditional nine to five at all, and that more than a quarter of Gen Z mentioned 26% saying that when they saw social media posts of people leaving their jobs and being fired or just quitting, they were inspired and motivated to do the same with their corporate job. And then another stat that you see is that 36% of Gen Z are struggling to even find a corporate job. So it's kind of all over the place.
Speaker 1:But, I kind of want to tie it and I want to get your thoughts on all this. But I want to tie it to something you said earlier, because you said you should be happy once you have that job. Like I was happy when I found a good job in college and knowing that question was now answered for me and didn't have to wonder what I would be doing in a few months. But then, quickly being put into that role, you're like this isn't what I thought it would be, Like where's the meaning here? So I kind of just want to get your thoughts on that, because that's kind of like what you mentioned too. Like you were kind of happy to have a job or you were happy how things were going, but then you kind of enter into things. You're like this is not what I uh predicted yeah, no, I.
Speaker 2:I think it's a lot to do with, like you know, just school schooling our entire life up until, like I mean probably starting like in high school. We can say, like freshman year high school, it was like you do this, you can get a job. It's like everything you're doing like from like freshman year high school all the way to graduate college was kind of like preparing yourself to like find a job and work, so like it feels this big, like stress relief.
Speaker 2:Like once, like I finally got a job, I was like all right, my parents are happy, like I guess I'm happy as well, and it's like because it felt like what you're supposed to be doing, that's like what, like everyone, like that's everyone's goal, you know.
Speaker 2:And then it actually yeah happened and I was just like it didn't feel like I expected to feel, you know, and it's like obviously it's like also like the sales role that you're in. It's not like what you expect sales to be either. So a lot of that. And then I mean you said a lot of those like stats kind of. It's funny how they kind of like contradict each other a lot, but I mean I don't really know. I mean I think it's kind of this is like. I feel like it was kind of just like what I was saying, like that was like the plan all along and then finally happened and it just like really wasn't all.
Speaker 1:It was like kind of like joshed up to be yeah, yeah, I'm just adjusting real fast, but, um, yeah, I I feel you on that, because it's something that alex ramosi, if you're tuned into him, oh yeah at all.
Speaker 1:But yeah, he's a great guy I listen to just on business, some other things as well, but its disappointment is produced when expectations don't match current conditions and that's that kind of plays into all this and it's odd because there there are contradictions here, because gen z according to the World Economic Forum research they did, and it was over 70%, I believe 73% said that Gen Z want permanent work. Uh, alternate, flexible work, alternatives.
Speaker 1:And that could be virtual, that could be working from home, hybrid working, four days a week, and a lot of people I think, maybe, maybe this is incorrect, Maybe it is correct, Maybe it's a mix of the two. But people take that as like Gen Z doesn't exactly want to work, and that may be the case. But simultaneously I think to what you're playing plugging into here. It's like maybe it's not want to work, it's more so what you're working on and how you're spending your time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because that's a huge part, like that's a huge part of your day. But yeah, please, I want to get your thoughts on that yeah, I think to your point.
Speaker 2:I think it definitely is a mix, mix of both, like there's people in this generation that they just want a remote job so they can be lazy or not have to work as much but there's also people like who want a remote job so they have the freedom to, like you know, like build their own, their own schedule.
Speaker 2:Because think about, like I mean, I've remained side friends that have in person nine to fives every day and they just tell me all the time like I'm so bored, I'm just sitting here, so it's like no one's working like eight hours straight, like every single day like I mean maybe like a very, very small percentage of people, but no one I know that has like a nine to five like that like actually is working like a hundred percent of time of that.
Speaker 2:so it doesn't really make sense to like like why would you be in that office all day? That's kind of my thought and maybe like maybe that's not the traditional thought on it, but I mean that's what I do. Like about my job right now, it is hybrid, so we have days we're in the office, days we're not. But yeah, I think that's like maybe a big point of it as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and as AI is becoming an increasing factor in work life and how it's integrated more seamlessly and how it's integrated more seamlessly. But the 40-hour work week, at least in the traditional sense of you're at the office, you're working, may be getting a bit outdated. And the 40-hour work week, to my knowledge, really came from the 40s when it was set largely by dictation from unions and they said like eight-hour days and there were deals cut and that's how it became the big. But since then, since 1979 alone and this is tracked by the Economic Policy Institute that worker productivity has increased over 67%, while wages have only increased, I believe, a little over 15%, and obviously that's a huge discrepancy there. So point being is that eight hours in this office environment where there's simply the work, is not coming enough. And even if it was, would it really be work that moves the needle, like there's a difference between working and being productive?
Speaker 1:Someone could make busy for a few hours, I'm sure, but to be productive in a few hours without actual, like tangible tasks and action items to execute on is a whole different thing. So get to your point a lot I think it could be that because if you don't have work going on right now, you're not busy, you're not tuned into things and you're just left to your own devices, like literally your mobile device. Or you're just thinking like're not tuned into things and you're just left to your own devices, like literally your mobile device. Or you're just thinking like this is kind of this kind of sucks, like I I have to be here.
Speaker 1:You're telling me it's like school, but a little, a little bit worse because it's maybe not socialized. So it's like you're telling me to be here. All right, you are paying me, but I'm also doing the job. I'm not doing the job right now because you don't need me to do any work, so why do I really have to be here? And maybe that could be a thing with people, with people in our generation too. Specifically is like I could be doing all these other things, whether it's working or living my life. And to your point, I do agree, there's a large contingent of gen z that actually simply just doesn't really want to do much at all. That actually gets upset at the notion that they may have to produce something of value. But I also think there's a lot of us who are like no, I just rather have an entrepreneurial mindset with the build something yeah, especially like all the ways you could make money online.
Speaker 2:Now there's like so much new things coming out like every day, or like there's just there's so many different avenues you can take, like there's a million different things you can try.
Speaker 2:I think also to um your point you mentioned alex ramosi earlier. Like you're sitting in the office all day, you're scrolling through your tiktok, your instagram, and you're seeing like alex ramonzi and like uh, influencers alike, uh, just like kind of like talking about how you can like change your life with, like you know not like all those like courses and stuff or like really like you know you're not all of them are like helpful actually, but you just see this so much content being pushed out of people who who have done it like they have like gone from a normal life to living like this lavish lifestyle, like or not even lavish, but they just have like freedom and like they they make money online. They like they kind of just like have control of their life. And I feel like just like when you see those kinds of videos and you're like thinking about like wow, like I go into like the office every day, like like it's kind of the same old routine every single day.
Speaker 1:So I feel like just like seeing someone like that kind of just makes you like really think about, like it's really the right thing for me, you know yeah, yeah, and you mentioned that word freedom a lot and I agree with you that it's the freedom to feel the freedom, freedom that you have the control in your life, of your life, that it's not this preordained affair that you just have to bear witness to were main and other generations, older generations, were simply more content with find that workplace, putting in the hard time year over year, year after year, and then retiring, and you said that it felt like that thought felt like torture to you and I like, almost like I agree, and I don't know if this is more like naivete, but I meet a lot of entrepreneurs and they are great, like kind of great people.
Speaker 1:They're great people, they have great products and it's interesting because they're not. They're remarkable, but they're not uniquely remarkable and I don't mean that's a slight. I mean that, like anyone could probably, or most people could, go into that they really put their mind to it yeah these people have grit, they have dedication, they do a lot, but I don't see that as this oh, you were just born with that quality. That's why, oh yeah, and I think most of them would agree with that statement too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not like you're talking to like the next t jobs or something you know, it's just it's. I feel like there's so much things out there people like just get to. I mean a lot of people like kind of like they feel like people will judge them if they start something that they think about, like all these other things that really don't matter. Like people are obviously gonna, like you know, have their opinions on stuff you try to do and like you know. But like I mean, I feel like it's kind of like it's. Why would you care about what someone else thinks? You know, like it's you might as well. It's really the people that just like do not care at all what anyone thinks and just kind of just go for it like those are the ones that are gonna like make it big or like do something.
Speaker 2:It's not like really anything to do with like intelligence. Obviously you need to be like a little bit smart, but I mean I I know people like just like I've met like through, like kind of like building these instagram pages over the years. Like I'm like they're no smarter than us. I know that they just like really like put their mind to it. Like they don't like watch a youtube video of someone explaining uh, any money online and then like think about it and just like kind of don't do it. Like they see that and they like research it and they actually try, like it's really just kind of like kind of putting the first foot forward and like actually just picking something you like and just try it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And there's two things there that want to go back to, one of which was the judgment of people. I couldn't agree more. I think that is such a deterrent for people who have these maybe tight-knitted social groups, whether it's friends or family, and it's to their detriment to a degree, because they may have these trepidations about crossing group norms or feel like you're going against the grain and you're going to be an outcast. And I felt that before, but that was high school. But I can understand. If I took a different trajectory, then maybe I never would have grew out of that or went down a different path. And I had an old friend come up to me not too long ago. I saw my event and he's like I really like what you're doing with this podcast. I actually wanted to do something myself, get into comedy and I was like, oh, that's awesome, man, Like you should go for it. And he's like, yeah, I just my friends call me this and say that and I just I don't know if I'm gonna deal with that.
Speaker 2:I'm like is that are you serious? Yeah, like it's like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like man, like that's rough, like how, yeah, come on, yes, I mean to your point, like it's um, it's something a lot, a lot of people, I think, struggle with and then the other thing was was taking that first uh step forward, because that could, just starting itself, can be such as mount the climb and then once you climb that mountain, it's just, you just did one little. It turns into like a small little hill comparatively to everything else you have to do.
Speaker 2:But I think, like the thought, the thought of it is, it's probably worse than the reality yeah, I think like um, this quote that me and my uh business partner always say it's the paralysis by analysis, you just overthink everything, you think about everything that can go wrong and like you really just like you will never know how it's going to go until you try, and so that's something we've we've always tried to like kind of live by with everything we try about, because you know we just try our best and you know like you're gonna fail, probably like most of the time, like almost everything I tried up until like growing instagram pages was kind of like complete failure.
Speaker 2:But you know, and yeah, like kind of your point about like you know, like you you have friends, you have people that are gonna look at you and be like what is this idiot doing? Like why is he like like doing all this stuff? And, like you know, I mean that's definitely something. I mean, maybe that's something I cared about like prior. But I mean at this point it's like if I see an opportunity to like you know, like go out and like make some money, or like it's not even really about like the money, it's not like I'm like dreaming about like having like yas and stuff, it's really just kind of like just building like a comfortable life, like a life that I'm like I wake up every day and like I can like enjoy what I do and I'm like building towards something that like I'm proud of and I'm it's like it's like kind of like my thing. You know, that's like kind of like my thing. You know that's like the biggest, like kind of like part of this whole thing. I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a thousand percent. I was at an event before and it was some kind of workshop and talking about things like the ideal morning that you would have in your life on like a routine basis and how you would feel during that morning. And the answer I provide was you know, when you're growing up and you have field trip that day, like, say, in grade school, and you're excited to like to go out and, you know, go about your day, even though it may just been like a trip to the zoo or maybe. I mean, I was born and raised in philadelphia, so trip to new york was like legendary for when.
Speaker 1:My class trip was like eighth grade and I said basically that like every day feels like exciting in essence, and a lot of people like that's just not realistic. I'm like, yeah, maybe according to to your current life, no, but in mine too, sure, but that's what do? I just throw everything out then because it's not quote realistic. That doesn't really seem like a good story, so it's like okay, so it's not exciting. So I just then settle for monotony like that's. I don't want to do that either. That doesn't sound fun at all yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:That's like. That's like kind of like my, my pet peeve saying, right there, it's funny. You said that, like when people are just like people like some of my friends talk to me about like stuff doing this and they'll kind of like you said about your friend, and they all think about doing this. And I'm like, and like they'll say something, I'll be like, you should just try it.
Speaker 2:And they're like oh, it's not realistic, it's like it's not gonna happen it's like you know it's not gonna happen, unless I mean with that mindset it's not gonna happen. But you know, nothing really is like unrealistic. Like you know, like you were saying with like the big entrepreneurs you come by with amazon all the time like you know, like no one's like really any more special than anyone else, it's really just people who try yeah, and it's the effort and I think it's a great.
Speaker 1:You mentioned you had different pages before this instagram pages to tie it back to what you're currently operating, and it took you over a year to grow where you are today, in just a few months with this new page, and I'm sure, as there are with me and probably a ton of other people, that it's it's not even the current result that keeps you going like it's not even the current conditions that are like, oh, keep going. It's like the, the end vision that, okay, well, if it's not today, it's not tomorrow. Well, maybe it could be a year from now, maybe two years from that's better than maybe the situation that you originally just described with work in the 50 years, and you're just so for what it's like yeah literally for what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know there's been people who like reached out trying to like buy the page and like, like someone threw out like crazy numbers and like a bunch of my friends like why don't you take that? I'm like that's like. That's like nothing compared to like what I got, like like the vision I kind of see with like where I can take this, you know, like it's like there's a reason someone's willing to throw that money, like you know yeah, exactly, and someone's willing to pay that.
Speaker 1:Now imagine what it'd be, quote valued at six months down the line, a year down the line, given the track you're on and your dedication to it, because you post a good amount too.
Speaker 2:It's not just once a week or twice, it's consistent yeah, yeah, I think, like just with social media in general, across the board, it's really just a consistency factor, like obviously, like the, you know you gotta keep like the content's gotta be good, obviously. But, um, it's really just the consistency factor, like, obviously, like the, you know you gotta keep like the content's gotta be good, obviously, but, um, it's not like it's like super difficult content to make. I'm not, I'm not like the most like technologically savvy person in the world. I just use like a basic like video letter app that you can download for free to like make these kind of things. But um, yeah, it's really just like the consistency, like over time, just stacking, like every single day, just pick, picking, like a schedule you're gonna post on and just just keep it going and like it's.
Speaker 2:It's like you'll go through phases where it's like you're getting nothing and then you'll go through phases where it's like blowing up, but I mean it's just like yeah, so consistency is like the biggest thing with that and that that's like. I think anyone that you reach out to that has a follow on Instagram will probably say the same thing.
Speaker 1:And for your videos too, and they're widely entertaining, or sometimes they're more meaningful, but it always has the same background, it's the same kind of yeah, so even with that they're still extremely popular.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what the tech savvy part I was trying to. I was getting there right there. So I'm not like changing like the. I'm not really doing like a crazy amount of editing into it. It's really just kind of like the idea behind it. You know, I was having a list of notes on my phone, like I was walking around like throughout the day.
Speaker 2:I'll think of something, like I'll be like oh, that's kind of funny, like that's relatable or something or just something that happens at work like you can get ideas from, or someone tells you a story like it's not even just about my job, like, unless it's like my friends like complain about their job and I'm like like you know, it's like you really think about. Like people talk about their jobs like all the time, like it really knows that, because I'm like looking for that now for like to like kind of grab content and stuff. But people talk about their jobs all day, like like my roommates from college, like in our group chats they're talking about their jobs, or my family or my, my roommates here, my friends, like it's like everyone's talking about their jobs like all the time. So it's like pretty easy to kind of like think of stuff, you know yeah, I mean, that's a goal, mine for you, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, because everyone loves to talk about their job, or at least maybe they don't love it. But either way, inadvertently, they talk about the job and it could be through complaints or something that was funny, that happened, or awful, and most of the time, as a friend, you may want to hear it. Maybe you find it boring and like, can this person move on? But for you you go oh, this is, this is brilliant, keep going, because most people will be like oh gosh, please, I get, I get. You're a teacher, I get get it.
Speaker 1:So that's awesome, that's awesome. I wanted to touch on something earlier you brought up too, which was just how you recently graduated college. How has that shifted for you? Because a lot of people are like this is and personally speaking too nothing really prepares you, and you moved to a new city as well, so nothing really prepares you for that move to a new city as well. So nothing really prepares you for that seismic shift of going, say, being close proximity with your friends and hopefully having a great time to entering the workforce full-time new city for a good amount of people, and then life kind of switches on the drop yeah, um, I think, like prior to graduating, like, um, you know, obviously a little bit was a little bit, he was nervous.
Speaker 2:I feel like everyone was, because it was like you built this like whole life here at college. It's like you have all these friends and you're like I'm about to go but move away and it's like moving away from my home with my college friends, so it's like it's a little worrying and you're moving into. You know it's not like moving away from my home with my college friends, so it's like it is a little worrying and you're moving into. You know it's not like I really knew my roommates like that well, I mean now we're all good friends, but it's just like, yeah, it's definitely was a big change in a lot of ways and but I mean, I think I do like it, like it better, to be honest, because it really like, like it's made you like, once you start having to pay for bills and stuff, I feel like that's something I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm happy I moved to have my like parents house, like right away, just because, like, I haven't liked uh, I mean, yeah, you'll be saving more money if you do, but I think, just like having to like pay for bills and like really like kind of being like an actual adult for the first time, like really like makes you maybe kind of like kind of push me like to like I need to find other ways to make money, like other than just like my like job or I need to find a way to like build this life.
Speaker 2:I want, like in the next five years so I can be set, so I can like not have to worry now. I don't have to worry about like money, like I want to be able to do, like what I'm doing now will be able to kind of provide me and like future family and anyone any of my friends who need for the rest of my life. So that's kind of like I'm definitely like grateful I didn't move away and both my parents kind of pushed for that too. Now they don't like me or anything, but they're like it's uh, it's good, it's good to get out and um, because like you learn so much yeah, I was like complacent.
Speaker 1:Complacency kills, more dreams and starvation yeah I don't mean that in like a literal sense, but more in this metaphorical sense, where moving back with your parents, if they're effectively subsidizing your living, that's comfortable. That's yeah, unless you have this deep shame about it, which I don't think is good is the best way to think about.
Speaker 1:But unless you have this deep shame about it, which I don't think is the best way to think about it, but unless you have this deep shame and you want to change your life, then it may just be pretty comfortable and on the opposite end of the spectrum, if you're somewhere where you really don't like that, you have every incentive in the world to change that, because it's untenable, the situation you cannot hold on to. This is not my life. I will not accept this longer than I need to. There will be change and, yeah, I think that's a good sink or swim and hopefully most people and I do hope this for most people could fall back on a parent or a family member, a loved one, a friend, if they needed to, if things did go awry when they moved out or took that chance. But nonetheless, you learn so much about yourself and I will say, no, I don't mean this in the most disparaging way, but I don't believe you really are an adult until you move out and start paying for your bills.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's not really controversial. But I know a lot of people who are still living at home for whatever reason they may provide, and I'm not going to say it's illegitimate or legitimate. But I don't think you really can grasp the concept of an adult until you're on your own own, you know subsidizing most of your living and just paying the bills and making sure that you're you're kind of in line financially or just in your work, in your job, that you're able to bring home enough money where you're paying for yourself and you're not relying on these external factors and people such as parents to subsidize your life yeah, I completely agree and like that's something that, like I I know for a fact.
Speaker 2:If I moved home right away, like I mean, my parents are great to me, like my whole family's great to me, so I I knew that that's something that's very comfortable. It's something that would have been harder to move out from there. You know, I feel like it's like the thing I was like oh, I'm gonna just move home for a year, and a year turns into two and then three and it's like you know, it's like you never really kind of like branch out and like kind of get out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 2:So I think, like I mean I'm kind of surfing back to like I'm like so grateful, I kind of took that like like random job. I got in a city, like you know, like hours away from my home and I think it's definitely helped. And yeah, I think you're right. Like I don't really think you are like an adult, you move out and like I don't even think I'm gonna really feel like I'm adult right now. I feel like I I still am a kid in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:You know, I still still like so much for me to learn, but, um, you know, I feel like I'm adult right now. I feel like I I still am a kid in a lot of ways, you know, I still like so much for me to learn, but, um, you know, I feel like I'm just on the right track, I guess that makes you feel, makes you feel good, I guess yeah, I believe over jen it was business insider that reported that over half of gen z lives with their parents and her
Speaker 1:family member, I believe it was. And another survey from Rent Cafe saw that 41% of these people who did live or Gen Z that did live with their parents might include millennials as well, but nonetheless, these people who are living with the family member, 41% of them also anticipate being with that person for at least another two years, and I think that goes into something. Yeah, that is, it is crazy. Yeah, I think it goes into something that our generation is dealing with and this is something I do have a lot of empathy for because I deal with it. Uh, living, you know, in one bedroom, but it's, it's just rent increase, just rent prices that rent is crazy expense.
Speaker 1:It's so expensive. And I know boston, I have a couple friends in boston. They tell me how expensive it is there. I'm down in like the arlington dc area and it's extremely expensive here and that kind of seems to be the trend all over the place. Anywhere you would get a job at or where economic opportunity is self-evident, there are just crazy rent rates and increases year over year. So that's something I do have empathy for.
Speaker 1:I'm like damn, like that's, that's rough, that's not a good situation for our generation and then then it kind of pulls me in, pulls me in a bit of like yeah, well, maybe it's it's.
Speaker 2:It's not even just ran. Like you know, I was at the grocery store the other day. Um, I thought I was, I thought I was planning light on what I was grabbing and I'm like I leave it's like almost two hundred dollars. I'm like this is, this is crazy. So I think that's where do you grocery shop at? Yes, oh you can't, I guess.
Speaker 1:Oh, you can't go to Whole Foods, you can't be on the Whole Foods.
Speaker 2:I know I need to shop more sparingly, I guess. But I mean it's crazy. It's everything in general, or just like if you want to go out and have fun with your friends and stuff, you're like there's almost $100 you're spending when you go out. It is so much. But yeah, rents it is. Rent is bad and I mean that's why I live with so many people, because cheaper the more people you live with.
Speaker 2:But I mean yeah, there's a lot of yeah, there's a lot of things like that, like, kind of like, eat away your paycheck which kind of makes you look at it, that's, that's like that first thing, also taxes, I like I mean, I've worked like not, I didn't work before, but uh, most of it was kind of like you know restaurant jobs and stuff and so you have a lot of tips, but, um, I ever get my first paycheck and looking at how much like the government took from my paycheck and I was, is this is this extremely unfortunate affair that most people, that everyone goes like encounters and was like yeah, this is this sucks like and is it, you know, necessary?
Speaker 1:like you can take this hard libertarian stance and go taxation is theft and you can go and all that, but nonetheless it's a rough situation where you have these massive housing increases and then you supplement that with, uh, higher costs at grocery stores and then taxes like federal taxes and even state taxes, everything in between, social. You're just losing so much from your paycheck, from your gross pay, and what you net is just such a huge discrepancy between the two yeah, no, that's definitely a huge driver behind, um, not just taxes, but, like you know, just everything.
Speaker 2:You kind of are listening just has a huge driver behind, like like I I just didn't really see a way of like how I was like how am I gonna, like you know, like have all these things I want, like buy a house one day, if I don't have like multiple streams of income? You know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And to tie it back into pretty much the basis of this conversation is, I could make the case that a lot of people our generation don't see a brighter path forward. And people of older generations, I think, do agree with this to an extent as well that when they were growing up their parents were happy and content with that. They knew their kids were going to have a better future than they themselves. That's not really clear anymore.
Speaker 2:That's debatable. Could go up, could go down. It seems a lot more volatile now, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the situation for our generation is rather precarious. And another thing, too, is being told go to college, and that's starting to shift now. But for most of us, college was that end goal that every parent was pushing their kid towards, and understandably so.
Speaker 1:But pushing their kid towards, they go to college. Maybe they major in something useful, maybe not, but they get out and they're in. Say, on average, student loan debt is around 30,000, but I know people with you know over 100,000, but you're carrying around all this debt and you're getting an okay paying job then, then it's like pay for your life. How so it's? It's yeah. So to your point. The multiple streams of income and like this isn't working like this isn't going to work.
Speaker 1:For me that's um, it's just making the case that people like people in our generation may not see working, the corporate job or just your stable, your traditional nine-to-five, as being viable because of raises, their lackluster. I think most of us would, you know, agree with and also with rates of uh increasing prices at the grocery store and for housing and everything else. It's not like a viable path anymore. So going back to what you said, like building your own path and having this entrepreneurial mindset, is appealing for the freedom part, but almost seems like a necessity to get what isn't really that insane. As you said, you're not looking for yachts.
Speaker 1:You're not looking for these mansions in the hamptons.
Speaker 2:That rhymes I didn't realize that. But but you're looking for this life that you enjoy to live, and that's not too much to ask no, and it's definitely not too unrealistic to think of at all. You know there's there's so many things you can do and, um, I guess to to what you're saying kind of just about, about college, everything also, you know, like that's just another expense, that's like it's the price for college is insane now and just um, you know, I I've like I have a lot of friends.
Speaker 2:It's like, oh, like people go into, like into like masters and stuff, and like I'm just thinking like I don't even know what, like you're doing that for, like at this point anymore, you know, it's like not like it's like I mean, there's some things it is, but it's just like I don't know. Like more schooling doesn't seem like the answer to me, unless it's like. I mean, if you're like be a doctor or something, then I obviously need that.
Speaker 2:But I don't know. It's like people are just like throwing on like a bunch of random like extra majors and minors that they can throw on just to like stay in school for longer, and it's just like I don't know if they realize like how much of a hole they're digging themselves into with like all these loans and stuff.
Speaker 1:Like it's not like as easy as like they make you think to pay those things off a thousand percent and, in addition to that, how little it is valued as well, at least why I hear my experience. Yeah, that's, I guess, for the good and the bad, so on. Maybe liberal arts degree can leverage their experience that they did in college, perhaps in, you know, greek life or in student organizations such as extreme government, and leverage that as, like hey, I, I did this. So you know, it's more than just this degree. I have all this experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but simultaneously, to your point, like people pursuing these graduate degrees, it's like for what? Like if, unless you're going for this specialized field or going into the specialized field and role, why are you pursuing this international affairs degree? Are you going to be a certain foreign service officer, like I said that because I was considering it at the time, uh, like my junior year of college, and it's, it's almost a way to delay the delay, the inevitable, which is entering the workforce and having to contend with all the problems that everyone else is and trying to figure them out.
Speaker 1:But now you may just have more debt and you may have a master's degree, but how far is it going to move the needle?
Speaker 2:that was. I was perfectly sad. I 100% agree with that. And um, I know for a fact where I work, I know that the hiring man, the people that are in roles of like they delegate hiring. I know for a fact that every single one of them would rather hire someone with experience over some like fancy, like flashy degree, because, like I can't really tell you anything I learned about mine that's really valuable to my job. Like in college, like I mean, I was a communications major, which isn't the most like like shiny, uh major you can have, but um, it's I didn't really.
Speaker 2:I didn't learn how to do like really anything for sales. I never learned how to make a cold call. I never learned how to you know like I don't know like use, like CRM or something like that, you know like all this like stuff like that, these classes that were supposed to be like teaching you, all this sales stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't even know. I feel like I just came in here. It's like I felt like I was like like a kid again. Honestly, you know bowed the toe and pulled again when I came into work, but it's funny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it reminds you of that Lil Uzi meme. It's like what are you doing here?
Speaker 2:It's like I don't know, it's only my third day, that's so true.
Speaker 1:It really is I mean, you can make a meme with that one, but yeah, it goes back to it.
Speaker 2:It was funny how like um, I was like quickly just get like um, like acquainted to work. You know, I remember it doesn't feel like that long ago I started and now it's like there's someone under me now and he's a new guy. I'm teaching him all this stuff and I'm like it's just crazy how much you, you do learn at work, which is which is like a good point. I mean, that's, I've learned valuable skills there as well. You know, it's something like I'm at no position where, like I'm like supplementing my income. Yet you know, yeah, but I hope to be in the next like year, like I thought that would be the plan, but I mean they treat me well, so I'm happy to be there.
Speaker 2:But one thing that a mentor of mine did mention to me like was that the best way to move up this is kind of something that also has kind of turned me off from the whole corporate world.
Speaker 2:He was like the best way to increase your salary I know you mentioned how like raises are not that good the best way to increase your salary was like moving jobs every two years or something. And I'm just like like what is the point of like that's like leads and build all your relationships, people, and like I have to leave them every two years and just do that over and over again until you're at a place you're happy, like? That just kind of sounded like they kind of suck to me also. You know, like like it's just like what's the point of like doing that when you can just kind of like do your own thing and build it up gradually over all these years, because if you stay consistent with this one thing, for eventually it's going to pay off. You know if you're, if you're like semi okay at it also, you know yeah, and I think it plays into a touches a few aspects here.
Speaker 1:One is that loyalty isn't exactly valued, or there's not as much value placed on loyalty anymore, maybe both by the employee and the employer. That's one Another thing that you spoke of just leaving your job every two years to kind of leverage your past experience to a new employer. That definitely is a prudent way to have an increase in your salary, moving for economic opportunity. Having said that, you mentioned you're building all these relationships with people in work, outside of work, maybe starting a family, and when I imagine these jobs of like switching jobs for, you know, a better salary, I also imagine moving to another location as well because I think you're going to like this is going to work out within your little proximity, you know, your little city or town area, whatever that's.
Speaker 1:that's not exactly likely. So I imagine kind of just uprooting your life and then taking a chance on a new employer, especially if you have one that's like pretty good. There's a lot of x factors wrong yeah, a lot of things can go wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so having just that being recommended, as I'm sure your mentor meant, in this beneficial kind of growth way. But you hear that and you go, no, like that doesn't really sound like my life and I hear that I think a lot of people hear that when they're working like it may be a vice, maybe something else may just be a pointer, yeah, but you're hearing like no, that's not exactly my life. I was reading this twitter thread. I like the best ways you know, most tried and tested ways, to climb the corporate ladder or climb the ladder in your job, and it all revolved around just being at the being, at the behest maybe that's not the right word, but just pretty much always being, uh, the call and beckon for your boss or whoever else, and I understand, like being a lynchpin in your organization.
Speaker 1:That makes sense, but to almost sacrifice everything for nothing, which I don't mean that in this fluffly way I mean everything, like your life, your your time, uh, your relationships. And when I say nothing, I mean like potentially like a salary increase, like what's what we, what we really gonna do with that?
Speaker 2:so yeah, you're right, you said um potentially also like it's like you can do all those things and it's not guaranteed. Like you know, like, um, like you never know who you work for. Whoever you work for is different. Like I mean, I'm fortunate where the people I I work for like they're really nice, really cool and they you know to do well. But I have people that are friends, that are also entry-level salesmen. Like they talk about the stuff that like their boss makes them do. I'm like that's, that's insane, like it's just like you never know and that's like kind of like something that like kind of scares me about like having to like if that's the way I have to build up to a salary that I'm comfortable with, by like moving to all these different like roles and like bouncing around like that just kind of something I just like really.
Speaker 2:I mean not saying it's like like the wrong thing at all, like maybe, like maybe I did that, I mean it probably does work, but that's really just not like kind of like the the path I want to be on at all yeah, it's not what you envision, your life being.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no and I guess, on a quick, deeper note, there's something from Les Brown that I always hold dear to me, and Les Brown is this motivational speaker, and there's this story he tells to help illustrate and help you visualize how maybe you should prosecute your life in essence, and in essence the story goes that picture yourself on your deathbed. You're laying there taking your final breaths and all of a sudden these ghosts appear to you and these ghosts are upset, angry and sad at you, and you're just there, shocked, stunned and also curious as to who these ghosts are and why they're upset. And the ghosts reveal themselves to you as being possibilities of your or pretty much past potential, of what you could have been, things that you could have brought to life, whether they were ideas or passions that you just let die, and they're upset and angry with you because of step being brought to life. They now have to go to the grave with you and I and that's, you know, pretty serious, like damn yeah how do I really, um, how should I, how should I spend tomorrow?
Speaker 1:but it's, it's more, it's more. So, getting to the point of like how do you want like to visualize your life? So, again to the point of like how do you want like to visualize your life and live your life? And it's not to like pursue something that you would, that I maybe could became a math teacher. I, I don't like math and I don't exactly aspire to be a teacher in that regard. So if a math, if it, if a ghost of a math teacher came to me, I'd be be pretty okay.
Speaker 1:But if there was these things that I think everyone has these aspirations, whether they admit it to themselves or to other people, it's another matter, but I think people have these aspirations and they're entirely possible, I think for the most part, but they're just never executed upon. I don't say that to make people feel insecure about what they're doing. If they love their corporate job, they should kill it. I'm actually very happy for them because, yeah, that's fantastic that you found what you want to do with your life, but, as we've seen a lot in our generation that that's not the case yeah, I definitely agree with that and like, kind of like, like you're saying, like like the corporate world, like it's not all bad, obviously not.
Speaker 2:Like there's a people that that, like that. There's people that are kind of like that structure and just like you know, like they do love that. But you know, and that that's something that really resonates to me as well, like that story you told, just because you know, like I feel like there's a lot of people you can ask. You can ask them like what's your dream? Like, what's your dream life? Like what do you, what do you want? Like in the next like 10 years? And like people like just like who've been, like, kind of like working for so long, they just, like you, kind of forget about, like what you even, like what you even want anymore.
Speaker 2:You know like it's just like you don't even think about it. You just think about like, ah, you know, like just like, keep on getting a raise every year, hopefully, and like that'll just stack up, put money in my 401k and like then retire at 65 and it's just like that just sounds. Yeah, that's, that's brutal. That sounds like like super, like depressing to me, like just, I feel like, you know, like everyone has a dream. You know, like you were saying, like whether they want to admit themselves or not, but, um, I mean, I feel like a lot of people do like forget about those dreams and stuff.
Speaker 2:You know I think about like you know, like I don't know, like my dad, my uncle, like older people have like worked at like this company their entire life. Like I, I wonder about like what they like dreamed about when they were my age, like what they like saw their life turning out and not like they like regretted, like anything like deeply on the thing. But I feel like there had to be something that they like dreamed about but just thought was too unrealistic and never tried, and that's just like something. That's like I don't want that to happen to me for sure.
Speaker 1:A thousand percent and maybe, and I would give more credence to that thought years ago too, before we had the technology and different capabilities to leverage to push our being forward, to push our vision forward, without this podcast podcasts are, you know, kind of a recent thing in terms of them being available for almost anyone to take upon themselves, to have, and without that there would be none of my, my kind of show, my kind of purpose, why I like to do and why I like hope to build and become. So I I can't even get that little before too, when there wasn't the tech to leverage for the everyday person to help build their life with.
Speaker 1:But now with, as you said, different ways to make say, make money online, or different career paths that are more niche and unique. Like you can do research, you could just spend like a saturday researching and find something. Just find something like I'm gonna look into, I'm gonna revisit that. It may not happen quick, it may take a long, it's damn long time, but I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna pursue this, you know, I'm gonna try get good in this domain, yeah, and like you can, everything's out there for free, like I know you go on instagram, there'll be courses all over the place, but you can learn. You can learn everything for free, like on youtube, like anything you want. Like there's always, there will always be someone who is gonna be like posting about this stuff, teaching people like for free. So like, because, like I mean, the great thing about social media is, like you know, like people view that and they're gonna pay you for viewing that. So I mean, there's all. There's so much it's like you can learn anything.
Speaker 2:I think, like youtube is youtube's probably the biggest tool to like my success, like in anything I've ever tried, like I I don't think I would be able to learn any of the stuff without that.
Speaker 2:So that's a good point, though. I mean, like you really couldn't like social media, like it really allows you like kind of like whether you're making money off the platform itself by having a big following is really besides the point. It's just kind of like you can get your message out there, you can start something totally unrelated to social media, like, and you can kind of just like promote it through there and just like grow that way. So it's really a huge tool. I feel like it's something that, like, you're gonna just need to like with anything you're gonna need to. You'll need to master it. You know like, and it's just kind of been increasingly showing that like social media presence like is huge and like people like see value in that, like brands want to like promote on pages that have big followings like, so it's, it's a big thing now. So I mean, it's it's really a big thing to be good at social media.
Speaker 1:I think yeah, and there's limitless opportunity. You can innovate there. And to your point on youtube that people are compensated and this is point on YouTube that people are compensated, and this is a very fundamental thing but people are compensated when they provide value to other people, and that's a lot of what YouTube is is providing value to other people, whether it's educational or entertainment or anything in between. Really, then enough people find value in it, you can be successful and there's some so many avenues you can explore in there if you are curious about like learning about it. However, I do want to wrap up with offering you an opportunity to tell people, inform people where they can keep up with you at and, yeah, letting people know where to follow you, how to support, and all that yeah, sure, yeah, so, um, you guys can follow at uh, at corporate dudes, kind of across everything.
Speaker 2:instagram is the the biggest one right now, but you know we have tiktoks, um, youtube, facebook. I mean I'm trying to kind of like build it across the board, but Instagram is the main one. That's the one I've had most success with so far. But yeah, I mean we have other pages as well, but that's one I'm kind of focusing on my own. I don't really want I don't know if people I own other pages with want me to publicly reveal them, so I'm probably not going to mention that. But yeah, I mean we'd love anyone that follows uh I. Anytime someone follows I, I always like it's a great feeling, honestly, it's kind of. But uh, yeah, I appreciate anyone that shows, shows love, shows support.
Speaker 1:Awesome, everyone can follow Gavin and his account. Uh, gavin, it was an absolute pleasure talking to you. I really appreciate it. I look forward to seeing what's happening next for you and your page.
Speaker 2:Thank you, daniel, appreciate it.
Speaker 1:All right, Of course. Take care everyone.
