TCMMY One on One - Fishers Of Men with Gabriel Johnson

What happens when you blend the worlds of church planting, sports, and personal growth? Join us on They Call Me Mista Yu for a captivating conversation with our long-time friend, Gabriel Johnson. Remember those initial reservations and biases that sometimes cloud first impressions? Gabriel and I laugh about our first meeting at a church plant and reminisce about the incredible 11-12 years of friendship that followed. From his early days in Providence, Rhode Island, to his family's move to Charleston, Gabriel shares candid family stories, including his father's brief NFL farm league stint, offering an intimate look into his upbringing and our enduring bond.

Thank you for listening to the All Purpose Pod for an All Purpose Life and your Weekly Mirror Check before you go change the world! You can find and subscribe to our show on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Theycallmemistayu

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Fellowship One:Seven
Fellowship One:Seven™ is biblical podcast from Child Evangelism Fellowship®. On the...

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:59

All right, Welcome back to the All Purpose Pod for an all-purpose life. Wherever you are and have you listen to the Call Me Mr U the podcast. We thank you again for making us a part of your morning, your day and your week. We're your weekly marriage hit. Before you change the world, baby, we are doing our Big Call Me Mr U one-on-ones. I'm so glad to get that started again this year, get the interviews going and talking to some incredible people, some inspirational stories, and I've got a good buddy of mine's in the house, Mr Gabriel Johnson. How you doing, brother?

Speaker 2: 1:28

All right, you Doing well, man, it's good to be here with you. Go back and forth a little bit, see what kind of trouble we can get in.

Speaker 1: 1:35

Oh yeah, that's going to be all we can get together. It's fun. We've got a long history. We probably span I think you're going to about 11, maybe almost 12 years now that we've known each other man, so it's been always a good time. Man, you got a long history of things that you've done, uh, things that are important to you. I want to just, you know, keep it casual, just have a chat, like we always do, just in front of a camera now and people listen to us all right, let's do it.

Speaker 1: 2:01

It's gonna be the same thing. But do you remember the uh circumstances of how we met? Can you share that? Do you remember how that, how that went down?

Speaker 2: 2:09

oh man, let's hope it's uh, let's hope it's accurate. I know you'll correct me, um, you know I will, baby, I, I, I know we met at a church plant, um, and I'm trying to remember actually. Actually, you know what? I don't remember exactly the moment that we met, like the first time I saw you, or anything like that, but I do always remember, sometimes like what's that you wouldn't love it?

Speaker 2: 2:35

for a second, it's all good yeah, I wasn't gonna say that, but I mean you just want to put all the business out there. Uh, yeah, you had to grow on me a little bit, but I still talk every now and then about. As soon as I heard you, I was just like, oh, I know where he's from.

Speaker 1: 2:58

Okay, I heard that one before. That's not new New York bias. Yeah, it was a New York bias. Yeah, yeah, it was a New York New York bias, for sure, oh, man. But yeah, it was, uh, it was definitely involved with a church plant. Uh, I remember the exact circumstance where, you know, a specific thing happened, but it was just an instant connection there, man.

Speaker 1: 3:22

You know it's like, even though I'm from New York, I don, I don't despise connections when they happen, man, you know what I'm saying. I'm definitely ready to roll with it. I'm probably a little bit different than most typical New Yorkers. If it's there, I roll with it. Man, I think I'm a friendly person for the most part, despite what my face may say at times. I feel like I'm a friendly person and I just roll with it.

Speaker 1: 3:42

Man, I'm like, hey, if you want to be connected, man, and I can help you and serve you and support you up and do that. So we became fast friends, man. I mean, our families vibe with each other a good bit too and we just kind of just really connected, and so I love to hear more and love you to share more. I know most of the stories, but kind of just share about. You know where you were born, some of your upbringing, kind of give us a view into what life was like with you, and then we'll talk about more, about what you're doing now and you know who you are as a person. Now Go ahead.

Speaker 2: 4:12

Sure, sure. I mean how much time you got, I mean on a lovely sunny day in August of 1976, a little boy came into the world.

Speaker 1: 4:20

I want to know how you were made. Oh, okay, I don't want to know that part.

Speaker 2: 4:23

I want to know we were at the other end of the making.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Okay, okay.

Speaker 2: 4:27

No, I was actually born in New England, born in Providence, rhode Island. Wow, my father is from Orangeburg, south Carolina, though my mother is from there. Pawtucket Lived there until we were 10. My father graduated from UMass. My father graduated from UMass and he actually played.

Speaker 2: 4:48

I guess back then they had farm league for the NFL and he played farm league for the Patriots until he blew his knee out. So he was somewhat of a sensation, I guess back in the day. I tell him, like man, that was a long time ago, it didn't matter, college, he might be watching now, so he'll be laughing. The old folks in Orangeburg used to talk about it and said that when my dad used to run the ball for South Carolina State University, he was scared to fall. They used to talk about the way he ran. He didn't want anybody to touch him, he was scared to get tackled or whatever. So basically he was a really good wide receiver. But yeah, we moved here when I was 10, and I basically grew up in Orangeburg until I was 19, moved to Charleston and, except for about a five-year period, I've been here ever since. Okay.

Speaker 1: 5:48

I love this. I love this. Scared to fall. There's more to that story. I need to get that fleshed out.

Speaker 2: 5:53

Oh yeah, that was the guy that first said that. He said your dad ran like he was scared to fall.

Speaker 1: 6:00

I'm missing something on that one. I need more information. I don't know how many times you've seen podcast style interviews or things like this. People try to go for the big, the big wow in the guests that they bring on. You know, they try to talk about things that they think are going to wow their audience and blow their minds. I feel like we're going in a different direction with this and we're going to do it because I feel like it's God inspired and that's kind of how I'm trying to do nearly all that we're doing. So it's not that this is not going to be a wow type of situation or wow. I'm not shooting for those. I'm shooting for the things that are substantial, the things that matter to people in their regular, practical, everyday lives, and you bring a lot of that kind of stuff to the table. So we're going to talk about that a good bit throughout this time together.

Speaker 1: 6:49

But I did have a lot of friends during the time that we met. I knew folks from up north. I knew people up and down the East Coast, places where I served, where I've done business things up and down the East Coast, as far up as New York, even down to Florida, but you've always been a faithful friend. You've always been really consistent. I'd love to hear your view or the standard you hold for friendship. What's a personal example of enduring friendship for you? How do you? What's, what's your standard for friendship? How does, how does that work in your mind? Standard for friendship?

Speaker 2: 7:23

How does that work in your mind? Standard for friendship, I guess the main thing about friendship for me. So I've always been a person that I never had to have a lot of friends. The friends I wanted were the people that I could depend on and that knew that they could depend on me. As you know, I am not the person that jumps on the phone with people every other day. You can go ahead and grin. I know If they call me, I'm there. And also, I think what's really important about friendship is I want people that are going to to challenge me a little bit. Ok, you sometimes can get in those, in those places where everyone is just affirming you in everything and there's a lot of things about me that don't need to be affirmed, that need to die or need to mature, and over the years you can see something like huh, it's just starting to get juicy.

Speaker 2: 9:23

No, we said there's going to be no wow, so we'll leave all the wow out. But having those people, that you, those people that that you can, that you can bump up against and they kind of give you good feedback, that stuff, it's it's character forming and it's maturing and that's that's important to me because you know I, I can, I know I can always be better.

Speaker 1: 9:43

I love that. When you talk about being challenged, give me an example of when that actually happened. I think it's. I heard it because I know you so well. I know what you're talking about, but our listeners when they hear about being challenged by a friend, they might see that in a totally different way than what you're talking about. Can you share an example of being challenged in that way where it was beneficial for you and kind of adheres to your standard of friendship?

Speaker 2: 10:10

Yeah, I remember one time I was studying I had been doing some in-depth Bible study and everything for a while and I was getting to the point where I was feeling pretty good about myself. I'm like man, I'm learning this stuff pretty good and I remember I can't even remember the Lord's just completely taken whatever. This idea was out of my mind because it was so bad. But I had this idea in my mind and I went and sat down with a couple of friends of mine I had spent like a couple of weeks and it was in a group. So there were other people around there that we invited into this conversation and I'm like all right, guys, I'm all excited, I'm going to lay out this idea that I've had, this thing I see in Scripture and I don't know if I've ever heard this, which should have been the first thing that warned me away that it probably wasn't accurate. And I remember laying out the idea and two of my friends in particular they sat there and they stared at me from across the room and one of them looks at me and he's like Gabe, man, that's heresy, you know better than that. And I'm like what, what are you talking about? And they're just laughing at me. They think it's the funniest thing in the world. And he spends like 30 seconds pointing out to me and I sat there for a second.

Speaker 2: 11:30

And you know, the reason why this was important to me was because, you know, this kind of stuff doesn't usually happen in like church groups or stuff like that. Everybody's all about being nice, um and whoa, that's interesting. Well, these guys didn't do any of that. No, it was. It was interesting enough to throw it right in the trash. And I remember sitting there and it was so obvious, I was like, okay, you guys are right, forget I even said anything, let's move on, you know. So it was just, it was good. You know, they didn't let me go anywhere with it, it was just, it was just silliness from a young Christian. So yeah, that's one humorous example.

Speaker 1: 12:06

I love that and I've seen that in action, not the heresy part, but just the part where you're thinking some stuff and you put it out there because you believe in brotherhood and family and such. And you put it out there and if it gets blasted it doesn't destroy you. You know what I'm saying. You kind of keep going, and that's a rare trait. I mean I know people like I just use people who are on my, in my, in my Twitter family, so to speak. I mean you can say some stuff to them, that's just corrective in nature and sometimes they just don't take it well. They kind of implode like oh my God, you're destroying my world because you're taking away my, my, my great ideas, like's. Like all it is is an idea. Trust me, by tomorrow you'll have another one. It's not that big of a deal. You know what I'm saying. So I love how you handled that.

Speaker 2: 12:54

It's good to talk about the wounds of a friend, you know, and that's you know. I'm sure if I had if there was, I don't even think there was Twitter then or if I had gone out on Facebook and put this out, it would have been different because I probably would have gotten defensive. But these were wounds of a friend and they were constructive and they were actually healing.

Speaker 1: 13:14

So, yeah, I love this man. I mean the stability part and the faithful part. I mean I don't know, it feels like that's in a different time.

Speaker 2: 13:25

Yeah, it's an era. We got to bring it back, man, we got to bring it back.

Speaker 1: 13:28

It's almost hard to see it now and I feel like you know, I feel like you were from the era that's not actually the one you're in right now.

Speaker 1: 13:37

I've been told that my whole life yeah, when it comes to friendship, that's kind of where I am. I mean, I've done things that I have no context for. I mean I've been a friend in ways that I've never seen anybody be a friend to me. It's very, very strange. It doesn't make a lot of sense, I think you and I, because we know each other, we know our backgrounds, you know where that comes from actually. But for the person who may be looking at our lives from the outside, looking in, it doesn't make any sense, because my place, where it's all about doggy dog fight for yourself, I mean we actually walked over dead bodies in new york. I mean it's like mind your own business, what you gotta do, don't get involved. I grew up in that kind of life. So to even be involved with anybody to the point where I am considered a friend, where I go out of my way getting the shirt off my back, which I've done literally and figuratively it's like there's no context for it. So I love the kind of friend that you have been to me and who you are to so many others.

Speaker 1: 14:31

Man, you're definitely also a faithful family man. I mean, we've had discussions about that often. I mean you have some things that I guess you might yourself, in your own words, in your own estimation, consider challenges in your own family life, in your own family dynamic, and you can discuss that if you want to. But you know, even though I was I'm the older of the two of us I still admired that, you know. I said, well, that's pretty awesome. What would you say are three areas that you believe are huge in your development as a husband, as a father? What would you say for all the husbands and fathers that are listening, that are challenged in their own household, what would you say are three areas that are huge in your development to be the kind of person that you are today?

Speaker 2: 15:12

A trial and error, but I know in my faith walk definitely one has been my wife and I being from different faith traditions has been one that's challenged me. I've actually had to, before I opened my mouth, I had to know what I was talking about, and so that was a huge maturation for me in the beginning of our, of our marriage, not understanding that dynamic in the beginning, that dynamic in the beginning, and then when I came to understand that this was actually a big deal, learning to walk through that in a way, in a constructive way, because the same way that we talk about friendship and actually doing for others, you know marriage is is it's always been said it's not 50, 50. It's 100, 100. So when you know learning despite whatever you know, you don't feel going back and forth. I have this calling and obviously you know our faith is huge in that. And so if Christ is calling me to be a husband, to be a man, that's the first reason why I have to figure out what that looks like and how to do it.

Speaker 2: 16:37

My father did a lot of teaching of how to be a man, so that was another one of the big things. There wasn't so much of a biblical aspect there. There was like some faith stuff, but it was a little bit. It wasn't directly Christian, I should say, but I am the man I am today because of him and because a lot of the values and whatnot that he instilled. So those are two of them.

Speaker 2: 17:02

And then just having a kid you know what that does to you, the challenge there. But also realizing that I wasn't just raising her for myself, but she was an arrow in the quiver to be shot into the world, and that that weighed the more I matured in my faith, the more that weighed on me was that I, this, is someone, a soul that is going to exist for eternity, that I am preparing to go out into the world. I'm going to fire out into the world for a purpose, with a mission. There's never going to be a point in her life that I want her to forget that she has a mission. So I don't know if that exactly answered the question, but those are three of the things that have been probably the most examples, I guess I could say, of what's been impactful and how I've tried to be a husband and a father and a man.

Speaker 1: 17:57

OK, that sounds fantastic to me. What would you say is the biggest challenge in being a husband and a father?

Speaker 2: 18:09

Oh, being wrong. It's challenging being wrong, yeah, yeah, cause you know what I don't like being wrong and so you know having to having to learn from that and admit that and move on. Um, I've got to admit. As far as my daughter is concerned, I mean she's been an absolute joy. I mean she's almost out of high school now and she's been pretty much a I don't know if I want to say this too loud in case she hears it, but she's been an easy kid.

Speaker 2: 18:42

So I don't know if I'd say there's been like some huge challenges.

Speaker 2: 18:45

Um, so I don't know if I'd say there's been like some huge challenges.

Speaker 2: 18:46

It's been, it's just been more understanding how I needed to raise her Um, not how the world wanted me to raise her Um, and also not definitely not trying to live vicariously through her, but figure out you know what the Lord's plans were for her Um. And then the biggest, the biggest challenge, I guess, when you, when you do have a religious difference or there's an unequal yoking in a marriage and it's concerning religion and the ties that that creates um, then that would definitely have been the biggest challenge is actually um, adopting that idea of I. I've got to own 100% of my responsibility and also understanding that, as a husband and as the head of my house, what that actually means in a biblical sense and also not in the bro culture that we have today, the machismo culture, um. So, yeah, that definitely the navigating the, the different religious traditions um has been challenging and maturing and again, again, I probably wouldn't be sitting here talking to you, probably would have found me rather uninteresting if I had not had to go through that.

Speaker 1: 20:10

So I still got plenty we can talk about still, but that's a very interesting thing about you. I want to talk about the challenges and not talk about the victories, so referencing what you just got finished talking about that was a challenge for you. Could you share a victory or two, how many victories you got in regards to that situation?

Speaker 2: 20:30

Yeah, I mean my wife and I have a really good marriage. I mean she's solid, you know. I mean I work in the field that I work in. I work with probably I work with 98% women and yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:47

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Oh yeah, I'm one of the few men walking around cause I'm the guy that comes in to fix the stuff when it's broken. So I'm, I'm in and out of these different places and I can't tell you how many times I've been in listening to what's going on or seeing how things are being handled, and it's like man. So my wife yeah, I think I think things are being handled and it's like man, it's okay. My wife, yeah, um, I think I think in the um, in the midst of the challenge, seeing the you know, the, the growth, and seeing all those things move um in a positive direction, absolutely, you know, one of the biggest victories I can say is just not not that I've seen every change I'd like to see, but but just the strength that's built by having to deal with those things would definitely be one of the biggest victories there.

Speaker 1: 21:43

I love it. I love it. We referenced earlier about our experience in church planning. Sometimes I don't know why that's been coming back so much more lately. I'm not doing anything in that realm anymore. I've done this three times. Three times is a lot to me, especially if you don't consider yourself a church planner, which I do not. Three times like why are you doing this three times if you're not in this vocation? So it was a very I think, a lot of. It was my desire to serve community and to help people that I care about. Who I saw you know needed my help. I think it was at the core. That's what it was about. It wasn't about me wanting to have any kind of a claim to anything, any kind of position or anything like that. But why did you decide to be involved in anything regarding church planning and all your biggest takeaways from the experience that you can share that? Yeah, you understand what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2: 22:39

Yeah, Well, I think one of one of those is I tried to and this is one of the things that I absolutely got from my father when I get involved with something, I try to be involved and I tried to apply myself to it. And so, just when I started because I didn't grow up like I said, I didn't grow up in church. And so, just when I started, because I didn't grow up like I said, I didn't grow up in church. So when I in my early 20s, when I became part of a church, I tried to get involved, you know, and do things. So I was, I became, I could do a lot, and so that's actually one of the things that first got me involved in it.

Speaker 2: 23:23

The other side of it maybe we talk a little bit more about this later, but the other side of it was I kind of had a passion for the church born out of since I didn't grow up in the church and the Lord drew me to himself, but I couldn't find anybody to answer my questions and I couldn't find anybody to disciple me. I couldn't find, and that was extremely frustrating to me and so I kind of took these things and that kind of what pushed me towards wanting to help establish the church. I did three different plants as well. I actually didn't realize you had done the same number. I thought you had done several more before I had. But yeah, that's how I got into it.

Speaker 2: 24:18

The first one I got asked to do and then after that I knew that I had the ability to help. I had the ability to just do a lot of things, just because you know I work with my hands. You know I don't mind figuring out technical things. That's really where mine started and the more I guess teaching ministry type stuff came after I started helping with the technical side and lighting and music and all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 24:49

Okay, well, you probably got to just ask this question a million times, but you were never asked by me, so I'm going to ask you to be there playing sports. So obviously you had the background of sports. You are vertically blessed. How did you avoid the pressure of playing basketball, for just one example of something you could have played, where your height would have been an advantage for you? How do you avoid what happens to so many young kids who are blessed with height? They get pushed into an area I don't mean walked, I mean pushed into an area as young people. How did you avoid that and went down a route that you really wanted to go? Or do you have regrets that you didn't do it?

Speaker 2: 25:32

I just missed too many shots, Yusuf. That's why I mean, let's just be honest.

Speaker 1: 25:43

It was decided for you. Huh yeah, it was decided for me. I mean, you're that close to the rim how you miss that many shots.

Speaker 2: 25:51

Why don't you just dunk it? I couldn't, because, while I may have been vertically blessed, I was not mass blessed, and so I was easy to keep out of the box.

Speaker 1: 26:01

Oh my goodness, it's a situation we're talking about, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, oh my goodness, it's a normal situation we're talking about, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 26:07

Yeah, yeah, that's funny, one of the things I just I think, since my father had been so far into that, while he you know me and my three brothers, while he played with us and he definitely instilled a love for playing sports, he wasn't a pressure guy, that wasn't his thing. Um, the other thing is basketball was not my first love at all. Um, I, I played football. That's that was my thing. I loved it. I loved wide receiver, I loved um doing the defensive back. I just that was the most fun I ever had was running around playing like free safety. One time I just thought that was the best thing ever, wow, yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:55

I'm not seeing that right now. Oh man, how tall were you at free safety.

Speaker 2: 27:02

That would have been. It wasn't even high school, so that would have been like sixth, even high school, so that would have been like sixth, seventh grade. I didn't play any high school sports. Um, by then I was working, my father had his own.

Speaker 1: 27:14

You know, I'll talk with you then when you uh, uh oh man, I ain't with free safety.

Speaker 2: 27:21

I wasn't six foot yet I mean I, I was they like hitting folks. Oh man, oh yeah, I loved it. I cannot tell you I was that kid. I mean I would just dive into stuff head first. I just, I loved hitting. I might bounce off because I was just, I was string bean, but I loved it.

Speaker 1: 27:45

Oh man, I loved it. One of the questions I would ask you. I had already planned, but since you kind of went down this path, why do you hate baseball so much? Let's talk about that part. I've always been there. Why do you hate baseball?

Speaker 2: 27:54

Well, I mean it's a bad sport. I mean it's awesome. No, I'm just kidding, I'm not.

Speaker 1: 28:00

Why, why, why, why no? Why do you think I hate baseball? I don't get together. You never talk about baseball. We talk about football, we even discuss basketball, but you never talk about other ball. Over a year this is the last years why do you hate baseball? What has baseball done to you? How has, how has baseball scarred you?

Speaker 2: 28:20

actually the the. The game that I played the most as an adult was at least we put softball. Oh, that's the same. Yeah, no, it's not the same, but I don't hate it. I actually after I played four or five years of softball in my early 20s and after that I could sit down and watch a baseball game. So I'm not sure exactly where you're getting your facts here, sir. Oh, please hear the conversations. I mean, you know I haven't talked about Brussels sprouts, but you're not assuming I hate Brussels sprouts.

Speaker 1: 28:57

Oh man, but baseball, yeah, that's apples and not apples, it's not even that close All right so give me your three most favorite topics in the whole world to talk about. Oh gosh, no context, just three topics.

Speaker 2: 29:17

Probably all the ones that you're not supposed to Religion, politics and history. Okay.

Speaker 1: 29:23

I feel like I had a pretty good idea to build me your three answers. I might have one more, I would add to it, but that's fine, okay, I feel like I had a pretty good idea that those would be your three answers. I might have one more, I would add to it, but that's fine, okay. So one league has to be abolished forever. That means you can never discuss it. It's gone from your lips, gone from your memory forever. Which is it going to be? You?

Speaker 2: 29:41

said league.

Speaker 1: 29:42

Gone. Abolished Religion, politics or history. You can never discuss it again. You can't be in a conference with somebody else about it. Nothing, it's gone. Abolished Politics Okay.

Speaker 2: 29:53

Why is that? Well, because it's not a base conversation. It starts somewhere else, so I can still. I can still talk about the genesis of it without actually having to talk about the politics. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:10

Okay, yeah, I think I'll just work around this stuff. It has to be. You gotta be done with this.

Speaker 2: 30:15

No, it has a foundation. It has a foundation, so I can talk about the foundation.

Speaker 1: 30:21

Sneaky sir. Okay, that's cool, all right. So talk a little bit about your professional career, like what do you do for a living? I want to ask you a question behind that.

Speaker 2: 30:30

Yeah, I work for a major medical manufacturer. I work in the. They make diagnostic equipment for the hospital and so my job is to install, maintain their medical equipment in the hospital. So I travel around to different hospitals. I'm the Maytag repairman for this particular For this particular, I guess right, yeah, luckily without the uniform.

Speaker 1: 30:56

Yeah, thank goodness that uniform was awful. But yeah, ok, now I always told you to Mr, fix it. I felt like it was carpentry, technical in nature. You could fix that. Not the context of what we're talking about today, but it's observation, or actually something I want you to think about. You ever been in a place where you couldn't fix something that was broken? But you shouldn't have fixed it? Context of not not in your work, I'm talking about just in life.

Speaker 1: 31:25

It'd be a lot yeah, oh yeah, because people who have your particular set of skills there's something I notice, even in my own household. Yeah, uh, the person that's I'm talking about is not the person talking to you right now, but have an ability to just to fix things, and they're pretty handy and crafty and creative. I'm creative, but just in a different way. So you find yourself trying to fix things that perhaps you shouldn't be trying to fix. Yep, something that I think you understand where I'm going. Can you describe an experience like that that you can share with us, where there was something that you tried to fix or you did fix that it should have been fixed?

Speaker 2: 32:08

I don't know if there was something that you tried to fix or you did fix that it should have been fixed. I don't know if there's something that I fixed that shouldn't have been fixed, but I think, definitely, trying not having the wisdom to know just when to walk away um, in certain things that thing has happened. In the church planning arena, there were times when, um, you know, I was bound and determined you know my name's, gabe Johnson, and I can fix it Um, and I was just, I almost felt like I was, uh, I'd be guilty of just giving up because I can fix it. I mean, I me, um, I, you know, and I think you know we run into this sometimes in our marriages too.

Speaker 2: 32:43

If I, if I think there's something going on with my life, early in my marriage I had that same thing. Well, I just got to fix it, I got to figure out, I got to get to the bottom of it. There's got to be some data, there's got to be some you know, tweak here that I could make, and so, yeah, there's there's been multiple things like that, definitely, and, like I said, in the church planning arena there's been times when I shouldn't have volunteered to do stuff, or taking things on my shoulder, and a week later I'm like I should never should have done this, and and personally too. So yeah, there's definitely been those.

Speaker 1: 33:20

Well, that last part is something that we've had many conversations about Any headway in those areas too. So yeah, there's definitely been those. Well, that last part is something we've had many conversations about Any headway in those areas, or are you still doing the same mess of stuff you were doing before?

Speaker 2: 33:31

Oh no, I was listening. I may have not have assented right away, but I was listening. Eventually I'm just like all right, fine, I'm not going to tell you, but I guess I got to do what he said. I'm just trying to just help you.

Speaker 1: 33:49

That's a big deal, man. I don't care if I'm in any kind of counseling environment or if I'm just connected with somebody in the marketplace and they're feeling comfortable to share their whole life with somebody that's on one of our teams or et cetera, et cetera. Whatever's going on, even in the realm of ministry, it feels like people are averse to saying no. In most cases, it feels like a baby's first words are no. The older they get, the more they forget how to use it. They find themselves capitulating to everybody and saying yes to everything, and what it ends up creating is adults that are so stifled in their own life because they're trying to please everybody. And if you know yourself at a little bit, you know humans are complex. We can't even please ourselves. We're not even satisfied with the little victory that we do have. We want more and more and more and we ain't ever satisfied. Oh, yeah, uh. Insatiable hunger and it's like how do you say yes? How do you say yes to that that kind of person all the time? You'll never get anything for you accomplished. It'll always be to please somebody else. So part of that was something that you shared, that it's up to you to share. That it's not going to be me, but it was just.

Speaker 1: 35:11

I felt like, even though I was telling you how to learn myself, you got to learn how to say no to stuff, because you can't say yes to everything, because everybody's emergencies can't be yours, because it's a nightmare, you know, and some stuff is exaggerated. People call you at three in the morning about something you know what. You could have slept on it. You feel better about it at seven. You know what I'm saying, but because you said yes to it, you'll never learn that lesson. Yeah, it's kind of kind of the analogy of trying to do something afloat that god wants to sink.

Speaker 1: 35:41

Yeah, yeah, and I heard I actually heard, I got the revelation from the lord one time. It was. It was it would rock my whole world because I forgot how you phrase it exactly. But basically it was like you know something that you're trying to uh preserve and hold up. I want to tear down, yeah and yeah, and I'm like ouch, ouch, all, all 10 toes hurt like that one, like ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch. So it's like you know, that's the. That's the purpose of why I asked that question. I mean, you, you got that kind of heart man. We use one to help people you mentioned earlier in the in the discussion. It's like but're at a place now where you realize that you really got to evaluate what you say yes to. Is it? What kind of got you to that point? What made you change your mind about that approach now?

Speaker 2: 36:29

I think, realizing that it wasn't the humble servant that I thought it was, but that it was actually just pride, um, you know that the little kid says no in the beginning because of pride. Um, they all they think about is themselves. Um, and then you know, when you think you can fix everything, or when you, uh, take all of this stuff, it's again it's because of pride, because you think you can do it. And the worst trap because you know I don't want to make it sound like everybody that struggles with it it's for bad intentions, and that's the worst part of the trap is, a lot of times it's for good things, it's knowing when to say no to a good thing because there is a better.

Speaker 2: 37:30

And so, I think, realizing that it was that it's pride, it's me wanting to be able to say that I fixed it and I did it, and also not understanding that not all good things need to be done. You know the way that they're presented. They need to be done. You know there's our way and there's god's way and, uh, you know we constantly got to be trying to figure out what god's way is, and sometimes he, just like you said, he makes things difficult because they need to go away because he needs it done a different way and we just we're just here tugging that rope, just trying to do it our way.

Speaker 1: 38:03

That makes sense. I like that. We had some conversations in the past, even probably one of the most recent ones. We talked about the where the world seems to be heading, just the kind of things that you do for a living professionally, those kinds of things. You see what's happening in those arenas, you see what's going on in the job and the economical impact that hits the trades the majority of the time first, before everybody else. In a world where entrepreneurship seems to be the go-to now, what made you not consider working for yourself? You had businesses in the past where you've done that but what made you not go the entrepreneurial route in the midst of all that's been going on with the economy? It kind of made you stay your course. What would you say that's attributed to?

Speaker 2: 38:52

I don't want to work that hard anymore. I've been talking to my wife, I, I, I, I've been talking to my wife. Well, one, one of the things, in all honesty, is that my wife is working towards something that, um, you know, it's probably going to require me to have a little more, um, stability, at least for the time being, um, till the Lord says otherwise. But also, um, I mean, I was joking saying that I wouldn't want to work that hard, but in some ways, some of the things that I know how to do and know that I could do and do well, they would require like a lot of just um, a lot of the type of labor getting things going. And uh, and I am, I don't want to, I don't want.

Speaker 2: 39:46

Everybody would say I'm a perfectionist about certain things and I don't like using that word because I don't want to be perfectionist on some things. But I knew that. I know that in order to make it work, I would have to have people that I can absolutely depend on to do the level of work that I would require. And that's so cool, boy, you know it's so difficult, do you hear?

Speaker 2: 40:13

how that sounds man, hey, I, I, I hold myself to a high standard, so, um, I hold other people too. Um, I was joking around with my brother over this weekend because we were doing some projects at his house, building some stuff for his kids and everything, and he kept standing there being like, hey, can I do that? I'm like, oh, I have to do it. Um, but I'm like this guy's got to be done, right, man, um, but, yeah, this is a lot.

Speaker 2: 40:42

This is the longest period of time I've gone without having something, even when I've had, you know, regular jobs. I've had side businesses and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, um, and I, I, it'll happen again. I just I'm gonna let let my wife get her her thing up and off the ground. Um, she's uh's, uh, she's created a, um, a really cool lotion, cause my daughter had a eczema really bad when she was born, and my wife's got a, a, um, a lotion that she's getting ready to start moving, that people have found very, very helpful, yeah, so let's find out what she's, what she's got going on, and if that works, then my next entrepreneurial jaunt will be probably selling bait at the beach or something. I'll just do that way I can just, you know be fishing, you know, if you want some bait, there you go.

Speaker 1: 41:41

Yeah, all right, that's a nice segue to my next go. Alright, that's a nice segue to my next question.

Speaker 2: 41:46

Good, I was trying to help you out. I was surprised by the bait part, though.

Speaker 1: 41:49

I'm like, is he serious? Okay, it's all good, your love for fishing that's well known amongst my family. You took me out and we caught like 22 bluefish, which I thought incredible. I didn't expect anything close to that. That was more than triple what I was quadruple what I was even thinking was going to even happen out there. For me, being somebody who my uncle was an avid fisherman I mean, he's an avid bowler too I didn't, you know, pick that up as easily as I thought I should have been too so, but my fishing experience is limited, to say the least. So to go out there and to do that, it's like wow. I mean, I was so proud. I had the pictures, I had all the fish we had laid out on the table before we started filleting them. Oh yeah, I was so proud of that. Still mad about the one that got snatched away by something in the water. I don't even know what it was. It just tore him off. I'm like what is out there?

Speaker 2: 43:18

I'm so curious. Oh yeah, sharks.

Speaker 1: 43:20

Sharks and bigger bluefish, yeah Well we lost at least over a dozen of those. Oh yeah, unexplained phenomenon, but I know for you the love of fishing is definitely there. It's a calm and serene time, great for meditation and deep thought. What would you say If you can share? If you can't, that's totally fine, we'll move on. What's the biggest revelation you would see while you were fishing?

Speaker 2: 43:48

Oh man, I'd probably have to try to make something out, make it sound good. I don't know if there's any been huge revelations. I mean, um, you know, I I like being out sometimes and you know, like a lot of guys that do that, you know, go on the beach, whatever, like where we went, you know we got to see the sunrise and stuff like that, and it's mostly just calm. Um, I've probably had more revelations driving, just because I drive so much I used to. I don't drive as much anymore, but used to do a lot of driving. So, um, but I don't know, I that's.

Speaker 1: 44:27

I mean, if it ain't one of they, well, I mean, it's not always the obvious places, we just kind of happen. I had, I had one when I was out there with you, all right, uh, yeah, absolutely, because I don't know, I couldn't help. But think about, you know, being a fisher of men, I might even I might even have mentioned it but I'm not sure if I did or not at some point during our time out there. We're out there for quite a while. Watch, like you said, watch the sun come up, which is a beautiful thing. I recommend that even if you're not fishing.

Speaker 1: 44:56

But you know, looking at all the times, I pulled the line back and there was nothing left for what I put on the line, you know, or what I expected to yield, you know, and it was like I could have, if I just stayed in that moment of all the broken fragments that I know I had something big, and then come back and pull it back up to me and I have nothing. It's like if I stayed in that moment, I would have missed out on all the other times that we were successful, yeah, and all the other times that we got, I don't know, 22 bluefishes. A lot, but to me it was like the same as Peter casting the nets because you just told him to, and the nets because you just told him to, and then that's too big. It was the same amount to me because I didn't expect anything close to that. I was thinking three and we called it a day, you know. So that was, that was major for me, man.

Speaker 1: 45:46

But just kind of remind you about just being consistent not up, you know, despite how things look and the circumstances in the environment, and just keep doing what you're supposed to be doing. You show me the right way to throw the line, show me how to, when, to uh move on it and not rush it. You know, I mean those, those are invaluable stuff. I think it just translate to being a fisher of men, and that's something that I think if I had a title this show, which I I still have to I would probably call this official of men, because that's how I see you.

Speaker 1: 46:17

I see you as somebody who is definitely passionate about reaching people, men of all ages, honestly, people who you believe you have some value to share with them or you see purpose in them, and what I've learned I know my wife can attest to this, and I'm pretty sure you can too. Some of the areas that we had the biggest challenges in life, especially growing up. That's where our biggest victories are, that's where our biggest ministry is. Our biggest area of influence is. What would you say if you can go back and think to the time where you had the biggest challenge with men or a man in general that could have prevented you?

Speaker 2: 47:01

from being passionate about men's ministry. Could you share that story? I think it was probably more the first church I ever joined I was. I was in that place where, to the pastor's benefit, he didn't ask me to teach adult Sunday school. He told me that I was going to be teaching it. Yeah, wow. And so I wanted to do well, and so, you know, I began studying.

Speaker 2: 47:35

I've been doing a lot of things and I think I, you know I wanted to go to him. I wanted him to kind of be that person that I could bounce everything off, kind of be that, that, that discipler. You know that person that that would, would help me work through a lot of these issues. And through, you know that person that that would would help me work through a lot of these issues. And through, you know, just when you begin to get behind the curtain at the business meetings and the different things, you begin to see the whole person. And I think it was one of those things where it was really a letdown, seeing that this was not who I thought it was. And you know that's especially. I had gone through this period of time so much where I was trying to learn, I was trying to figure out. I'm having to use YouTube. You know I'm having to send off for you know, studies on CDs Cause you know I don't know how to find anybody locally, and thinking I had that.

Speaker 2: 48:44

And then you know, you get that crush, that crush and you know I'm talking about that crush can can rob you of the desire, um, and I remember feeling really bad for myself. Um, I threw a really really really nice pity party, um, and thank god I wasn't invited. Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't want to come to that one. It was great for me, but in the midst of that I didn't hear any voices or anything like that. But the knowing, the Lord kind of didn't want me to go that way.

Speaker 2: 49:29

And the knowing kind of came that look, just because you've been let down, down, you got to understand that there are other people like you. So what you've got to do is, if you're not going to find that person, be that person and so that's that ended the pity party. Like that moment um, not to say I haven't tried to throw a few with you know, since then on, when something didn't come my way, but that ignited a fire and that ended the pity part of it that was like, okay, there's got to be other people like me and I'm just going to do, just be available for the Lord to use me in their lives, like I wanted and wished I had had somebody to use for me, you know, and so, rather, rather than sulking about not having it, be it.

Speaker 1: 50:24

You know, I love that. I love that. Just two more questions and we'll go ahead and close up our conversation for today. So ideal scenario. We talked a lot of things, a lot of things. Close up our conversation for today, so ideal scenario. We talked a lot of things, a lot of things. We talked about your love for fishing. We talked about things in the realm of entrepreneurship, talking about selling bait, which I have some serious questions about. A whole bunch of other things that we talked about too, that I believe you're passionate about. But if you can just pinpoint one ideal scenario for you right now, if you can have what you want in life right now, one ideal scenario to one day I don't mean anything like wishes, I ain't trying to go disney up in here, I'm just saying just you can have an ideal scenario of one thing you want to have in life right now. What would that be?

Speaker 2: 51:11

um, I think it would.

Speaker 2: 51:18

It would be being more effective and surrounding myself with others wanting to be effective in helping men be men.

Speaker 2: 51:39

So many of the problems that we're facing today are because we don't know how to be men Not macho, not bro culture, but biblical men, and I've seen it in my own life and I've seen it in the life of others. That life gets, I'll say, easier, but it may be more challenging, but better Maybe better is a better word to use it gets better when you begin to take that responsibility and take it seriously, even though it may be hard, even though it may be challenging. We were built for that, you know. Right now, so many of us are are heard the saying one time that the you know ships are safe in the Harbor, but ships weren't designed for the Harbor. Yeah, we're designed for that challenge, we're designed to do that. That's what brings us to life, and so to be able to be more a part of that, that's my plan for the rest of my life is try to be part of that, and so that would probably be my ideal.

Speaker 1: 52:54

I love. That Reminds me of two books that I love that I'd always recommend to men. I didn't plan to, but it's just popping up in my head right now Wild at Heart and Father by God. Those are two of my favorite books, especially in. There's like five books that I read every year. Those aren't the two of them, but those are definitely my go-tos when it comes to things relating to the men and things of that nature. Those two books right there, Dale, I don't care how many times you read them, they'll cut you open.

Speaker 2: 53:24

Yeah, wild at Heart was a huge turn for me. I read that early in my 20s and, well, maybe my mid-20s.

Speaker 1: 53:41

Yeah, that was a big turnaround for me. Yeah, I think that ship and harvard references in one of those two books, I just don't know which one. It could be in both, but definitely one of those two. But if anybody same author, so it's very, very likely. Yeah, on a side side note, I have a strong impression. Last, I would say it was last year he had to be last year to start a men's group.

Speaker 1: 54:02

Now I had some similar challenges to you where I had an aversion to anything that even looks like a men's ministry, men's fellowship, men's, et cetera. Don't want no part of it, keep me out of it and keep my name off the email list. Don't want no part of it. Keep me out of there and keep my name off the email list. That's where I was at. But I started a group that was just designed to be a support group.

Speaker 1: 54:23

We talk about issues relating to men, whether it be marriage or being single, whether it means, uh, finances, whether it means, uh, someone who was divorced, etc. Etc. Anything relating to men, even the culture and how you deal with that in the marketplaces and workplaces, whatever it is that men care about. We want to talk about that kind of thing and do it in a safe space but a productive, helpful environment. It's very rare. Everything either has to turn into a business network in time or it turns into a Bible study. I didn't want either one of those in this situation. I felt like that's not what we're going to be doing and you've been gracious enough to kind of show the same heart you displayed on this episode of our show, this discussion, this interview, and you've been being administrative in our group and kind of helping us rally around some of those same ideas you were talking about and you know, and helping men you know, be men and it not being considered nothing weird about it. We're never just walking in what we know we're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1: 55:25

Books like wild at heart and father by God have been shared within our group because I know that the impact of that of me as an adult man, as a mature man, reading those books and still feeling like, wow, I got so much more to learn, I got so much more areas to grow just by reading this, like I said, it cuts on you. I just wanted to say thank you in front of everybody for being a part of that and for helping us build what I think is going to be a powerful group and a powerful opportunity in this city, man. So I want to just thank you for that. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. My last question I know you're not a big TV watcher I think we discussed that in the past but if you had a favorite or go-to show on television, what would that be?

Speaker 2: 56:06

Like show or like movie, or just a show like a series, because I don't even have time to watch no series.

Speaker 1: 56:15

So I I just say, like a movie or something um I mean, if you got a show, that's what I prefer, but yeah oh show man, uh 24 it's not even on anymore, man oh, you mean something that's on now. Oh, I don't have anything now how are you watching 24 days on anymore?

Speaker 2: 56:35

No, I just thought you meant in general. Like you know, people say the office and all this you watch nothing right now. I'm not watching any series. No, no, I'm not. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just you know, when you wind down, you're not watching anything.

Speaker 2: 56:53

If, if, yeah, if I watch stuff, I definitely watch YouTube. I'm like my family instantly abandons me when I turn the TV on because I'm looking at documentaries. You know short clips. You know watching gardening videos on YouTube. How to's about different things I've got in my head, oh my goodness. Yeah, so that sounds not right. Yeah, they run, they run for the hills.

Speaker 1: 57:21

Well, I'd love for you to subscribe to our channel, because we've got too much gardening stuff going on, but I guess you can subscribe to it. They probably won't, but you can, okay, hey, I'm always looking for tips. By all means, everything that we know is not a secret. Thank you for jumping on, man. This was a blessing. Thank you for having me, bro. I mean, I got people out here who are watching and listening. What do you want to say to them? If you had in this last 60 seconds, if you had something to say to everybody that's listening, or somebody specifically? The floor is yours, man. 60 seconds. You got it, brother.

Speaker 2: 57:57

I mean, I think the most important thing is for people to know who they are. In order to really understand who you are and you see everything that's going on in your life it's important to understand that there is there's one answer to that. There's one thing that we need to rectify what I was talking earlier about, all the different issues that I was having and being challenged and all these different types of things, none of those things began to be rectified for me outside of Christ, that's that that was the foundation that caused me to to want new things, to want better things, and so I understand that that there's going to. You know, you and I've had our experiences in the church and all these different types of things, and but I have, if everything that I've seen, and I know everything you've seen we still have a passion for the church and a passion for the good news of the gospel, and I think that, outside of that, not missing the good for all the bad that we bring to some of these things and so I always encourage people to do due diligence, to not be dragged away, especially for people that maybe had church hurt or have had things happen to them.

Speaker 2: 59:25

Don't be dragged away by what the enemy wants you to see, understand what the intention is and that everybody in that place, everybody in the church, is broken to some extent. Some are broken but they've. They've found their creator, and and there's nothing better than that, there's nothing better than than a broken toy being picked up by the one who made the toy because he knows how to fix it, and so that would be my hope for everybody that's either been hurt by the church, that's gone through some of the stuff that we talked about in the beginning, and you can get callous and you can get hard. Go back, understand that it's bigger than you. You have a creator and he's good.

Speaker 1: 1:00:12

I love it, man. Thank you again so much, man. You know I love it, man. Thank you again so much, man. You know I love you, brother. Everything you share was gold, so I appreciate that. I hope everybody that came on to listen to you today people that were just curious hope they got something from what you shared. I know I did for sure. If you want to have any further conversations with myself or Gabe, by all means you can follow us on social media. I think he has everything but Instagram, but you can find him. You can find me, of course. I can connect you to him. It's all good. We love to answer those questions you may have. You can find me on they call me Mr U on our YouTube channel. Please go there and subscribe YouTube, brother.

Speaker 1: 1:00:52

Love to get more eyes on what we're doing, because we talk about us being an all-purpose pod for an all-purpose life. That means we talk about a lot of different things. It ain't just a football show on Monday mornings and Wednesday mornings. We're talking about a lot of different things. Gardening is something Mark and I are passionate about. I'm surprised I'm saying that, but it's true.

Speaker 1: 1:01:09

Youtube is a great example that you see it there. You can see me out there in the dirt and it's real. I'm out there. I'm out there doing the work. So love you to be involved with that. See all the things we're passionate about, and there's much more to come. That channel is going to be full of all type of stuff our travels. You don't even know what's coming yet. It's just the beginning. So please subscribe at. They call me Mr U on YouTube and, of course, I'm on all the socials at Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram. So please follow us. And again, thanks again for joining us. Thanks, G for being a part of this show. Yeah, man, have a great day. Everybody. Coach out, We'll be right back.