282 | When God Holds the Thread (Part One) with Debra Amick
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
When God Holds the Thread: Chase’s Story
In this first half of my conversation with Debra Amick, she shares the story of her son Chase—a talented artist, musician, and gentle soul whose life touched so many. Debra opens up about his early years, the emergence of mental-health struggles in his teens, and the intentional decision she and her husband made to stay closely connected to his heart.
She also recounts the powerful moment when Chase returned to his faith in Jesus and the heartbreaking night he went to Heaven. Through it all, Debra describes the unmistakable ways God met their family with comfort and presence, even in the darkest places.
If you’re walking through a story involving mental illness, trauma, or deep sorrow, I pray Debra’s honesty will remind you that you’re not alone—and that even when we feel like we’re hanging on by a thread, we find that it's God Himself who holds that thread.
Next week in Part 2, Debra will share what happened after Chase went to Heaven, including how she began writing publicly and how God led her toward purpose in the midst of her pain. She’ll also talk about four very practical anchors that helped her navigate her grief with faith and hope.
Click HERE to connect with Debra and see all the resources she has available on her website!
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
281 | The Valley and the Shepherd with Meshea Ingram
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
“Even in the darkest valley, the Shepherd is still good—and He never lets go.”
In this week’s episode, I talk with Meshea Ingram, a mom who has walked through the deepest valley imaginable and found her Shepherd faithful every step of the way.
Meshea shares about her little boy, Briggs—a joyful child with an unforgettable laugh and a big personality that filled every room. In the summer of 2022, a tragic drowning incident changed everything. Meshea speaks honestly about the days she prayed for a miracle while Briggs was on life support, the disappointment that followed when God didn’t answer as she hoped, and the long process of learning to trust His goodness again.
Out of their pain, Meshea and her husband founded Love Can Build a Briggs, a nonprofit organization that raises awareness about drowning prevention and provides swim-lesson scholarships for young children.
This episode is a beautiful reminder that even when our miracle looks different than we hoped and our hearts are breaking, the Shepherd is still leading us, His mercies are always new, and His faithfulness never fails.
Connect with Meshea:
Website: www.lovecanbuildabriggs.com
Instagram: @shewhoprays
Facebook: Love Can Build a Briggs
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
280 | We Are Held with Cheri Fletcher
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
“What if hope isn’t about holding on—but about being held?”
In today's episode, I had the privilege to sit down with Cheri Fletcher—a writer, speaker, and flash mob aficionado—who shares the story of her daughter Annie, a vibrant young woman whose life reflected creativity, compassion, and faith.
Cheri opens up about the sudden medical crisis that took Annie’s life at just 29, the ache of surrendering to God’s will, and the unshakable truth that we are never left to simply “hang in there”—we are held by the God who goes before us. Drawing from passages like Deuteronomy 31:8 and Isaiah 41:10, she reminds us that even when life shatters, God’s presence remains steady and sure.
We also talk about Cheri’s new project, the Grief Communication Cards, a set of thoughtful prompts designed to help grieving families and friends talk more openly about their loved ones. I'm planning to use these cards with my own family this holiday season as a way to remember and celebrate our daughter Hannah as well as others who have gone to Heaven in our family. Use the code WAITING10 for 10% off your set!
This episode is a tender reminder that when we don’t have the strength to hold on, God is the One holding us—steady, present, and faithful.
Resources Mentioned:
- Cheri Fletcher’s Website: cherifletcher.com
- Grief Communication Cards – use code WAITING10 for 10% off
- While We’re Waiting Facebook Group – Support for Bereaved Parents
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
279 | An Immeasurable Love with Cindy Shufflebarger
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In this week’s episode, I’m joined by Cindy Shufflebarger, who shares the story of her daughter, Ashlynn Faith, and how God’s immeasurable love met her family in the midst of unimaginable loss. Diagnosed with Trisomy 18, Ashlynn lived for three precious days — days filled with both deep sorrow and sacred joy. Cindy reflects on those moments, the way her faith was reshaped through lament, and how journaling became a lifeline that led to her book Dancing in the Rain: Finding Joy in the Midst of the Storm.
We also talk about the Shufflebarger’s beautiful ministry, P23 Retreat, which provides grieving parents with a private, prayer-covered space to rest and heal. Through this ministry, couples and singles are able to pause, reflect, and experience the peace of Psalm 23 in their own grief journeys.
Here are some of the resources we mention in this episode:
- P23 Retreat Website: p23retreat.org
— Learn more about how to request a retreat, donate a stay, or access the free downloadable resources available there. - Free Downloadable Checklist for Grieving Parents — A simple tool to help you communicate your needs and boundaries to family and friends during grief. (Find it under “Resources” on the P23 website.)
- P23 Retreat on Social Media: Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn
- My Messy Grief Podcast — Listen on Spotify or watch video episodes on YouTube
- Cindy’s Book: Dancing in the Rain: Finding Joy in the Midst of the Storm
— A look at how God brings joy and growth even through the hardest seasons. - My Messy Grief Journal — Available on Amazon; a creative, colorful guide filled with prompts and activities to help you process grief in practical, sensory ways.
Cindy’s story is a powerful reminder that God’s love truly has no limits — even in our deepest pain.
If this episode encouraged you, please share it!
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
278 | Marking Time With Hope
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
Today's episode is a little bit different than what you usually hear on the While We're Waiting podcast. I've invited my husband Brad to join me to reflect on our daughter Hannah’s birthday. She would have turned 34 years old today—which means she’s now double the age she was when she went to Heaven at 17. That realization has hit us a little bit harder this year.
As we’ve been reflecting, we found ourselves thinking about all that’s changed in the world over the past 17 years—as well as the things we’ve lost, the things we’ve gained, and how time has both softened and deepened parts of our grief. We want to invite you into that conversation with us as we remember our girl and talk about what it’s like to keep walking forward while still holding her memory close.
If you’re facing a difficult day on the calendar, or maybe you’ve been thinking about all that’s changed since your child went to Heaven, we hope this episode reminds you that you’re not alone.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
277 | A Dad's Journey to Hope (Part Two) with Terry Sternad
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In the second half of my conversation with grieving dad Terry Sternad, we see what grief—and faith—can look like more than forty years after the death of a child. Terry’s six-year-old son, TJ, went to heaven in 1983, and while the ache of missing him has never gone away, Terry has discovered that joy and sorrow can coexist through a deep, abiding relationship with God.
In this episode, Terry reflects on how grief has shaped his walk with God and how it has grown into a ministry of comfort for others through GriefShare. He shares candidly about how people and churches often struggle to support the bereaved, why those who are grieving sometimes have to take the first step in reaching out, and how helping others has become one of the greatest sources of healing in his own life.
We talk about:
- What’s changed—and what hasn’t—in how our culture handles grief
- How the church can better come alongside those who are hurting
- The lifelong evolution of a father’s grief and faith
- How serving others brings purpose and peace
- The powerful truth that “time doesn’t heal; time with God heals”
- The freedom Terry found in finally releasing guilt and embracing his identity in Christ
Terry’s story is a portrait of what it looks like to keep growing, serving, and trusting God decades after loss. His honest reflections remind every grieving parent that while the pain remains, God’s presence endures—and He can transform even our deepest sorrow into hope that lasts.
Click HERE for more information about the GriefShare ministry, and to find a group in your area!
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
276 | A Dad's Journey to Hope (Part One) with Terry Sternad
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
When a father loses a child, the world shifts forever. In this first half of my two-part conversation with grieving dad Terry Sternad, he takes us back more than forty years to the day his six-year-old son, TJ, went to heaven—and the remarkable way God was already preparing his heart for that moment.
Before TJ’s death in December of 1983, Terry didn’t believe in God. But through the faithful witness of a coworker and tender moments with his mother, seeds of faith were planted long before he knew how desperately he would need them. On the day that changed everything, Terry found himself praying for the first time—and discovering a God who met him right in the middle of his deepest pain.
In this episode, we talk about:
- How God often begins preparing us for what’s ahead, even when we don’t see it
- The shock of sudden loss and the early days of grief
- The power of a simple, honest prayer: “God, help me”
- Why Terry calls the day of TJ’s death both the worst and the best day of his life
- How faith began to take root, even in the middle of unimaginable sorrow
Terry’s story is a tender reminder that even in our darkest moments, God’s presence is near—and that the seeds He plants in quiet, ordinary seasons can one day sustain us through the unthinkable.
Join us again next week for Part 2, where Terry shares how his grief and faith have continued to grow over the past forty years, how God has used his story to help others, and what hope looks like for a grieving dad who has learned to trust God with every chapter of his life.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
275 | He Will Hold You Fast (Part Two) with Julie South
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
“Surrender is not a moment; it’s a posture I’ve had to return to again and again.”
With these words, Julie South describes the ongoing journey she’s walked since her daughter Bellah’s homegoing. In this second part of our conversation, Julie shares honestly about living with PTSD, how trauma has impacted her family, and what surrender has looked like as she continues to walk with God through grief.
She also reflects on how her grief has evolved nearly six years later, why simple practices like worship rooted in Scripture and putting up the Christmas tree in October have become anchors of hope, and the significance of the phrase “the best is yet to come.”
Julie shares encouragement for moms who are just beginning their grief journey and talks about the new While We’re Waiting support group she and her husband, Scott, are preparing to begin in Florida.
This conversation is tender, honest, and full of reminders that even in the darkest seasons, God holds us fast.
Click HERE to learn more about the Sibling Lifeline retreats for adult bereaved siblings.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
274 | He Will Hold You Fast (Part One) with Julie South
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
“Even in the halls of the hospital, God showed me I was not alone.”
I'm excited today to introduce you to my friend Julie South. In this first half of our conversation, Julie shares the story of her daughter Bellah—a joyful, compassionate little girl whose life was marked by both laughter and serious medical challenges. Julie talks about how her daughter Makaylah’s health struggles prepared their family for medical adoption, how God led them to Bellah, and the joy Bellah brought to their home.
We also discuss what it looked like to navigate countless hospital stays, major surgeries, and ultimately a five-organ transplant—and how God’s presence was evident even in the darkest hospital hallways.
Next week, in Part 2 of our conversation, Julie will share about her experience with PTSD after Bellah’s homegoing and how she is now coming alongside other grieving parents to bring hope and encouragement. I know you will be blessed by what she has to share in both episodes!
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
273 | Redeeming the Broken Pieces with Kim Allison
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
Kim Allison returns to the While We're Waiting podcast to share more of her story—this time opening up about the loss of her husband, Herb, to suicide, and how God is redeeming the broken pieces of her life.
She reflects on her two babies in Heaven, Benjamin and Jeremiah, the vibrant life of her son Timothy, who went to Heaven in 2021, the deep valleys of grief she has walked through, and the tools that have helped her trade sorrow for peace. This tender, yet hope-filled conversation points us to God’s faithfulness, even in our darkest moments.
Click HERE and HERE to listen to my previous conversation with Kim Allison in November of 2022.
Click HERE to visit Timothy's website! You can see photos of his adventures and read posts from Kim's blog.
Kim's email address to request a copy of her book: allisontimes@yahoo.com
Email Jill at jill@whilewerewaiting.org by Monday, September 22, at 12:00 pm (CST) and share with her what was most meaningful to you about this episode to be entered in a drawing for one of Kim's books!
Click HERE to order a copy of Timothy Allison: A Life Well-Lived on Amazon ... or to read it FREE on Kindle.
Click HERE to order a copy of Desperate Trust: Clinging to God When your World Falls Apart which Kim wrote after the loss of her babies.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
272 | Tiny Cradle, Eternal Impact (Part Two) with Ashley Opliger
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
"The cradle is a temporary comfort—but the eternal comfort comes from the hope of the gospel.” ~Ashley Opliger
In this second half of my conversation with Ashley Opliger, she takes us back to the day of Bridget’s birth and describes the tender moments she and her family shared with their tiny daughter, who weighed just 13 ounces. Ashley shares how her mother’s handmade cradle gave Bridget dignity and allowed their family precious time to hold, cherish, and photograph her.
What began as one simple cradle has now grown into Bridget’s Cradles, a ministry that has donated more than 250,000 cradles and keepsakes to grieving families in over 1,600 hospitals across all 50 states. Ashley also talks about her book, Cradled in Hope, written as a conversation between two moms, and the scriptures that have grounded her heart through the losses of both her daughter and her dad.
Ashley's story is a powerful reminder that even in the midst of unimaginable pain, God is faithful to bring comfort, purpose, and the hope of Heaven with our children.
Click HERE to listen to the first half of my conversation with Ashley.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- Bridget’s Cradles
- Ashley Opliger’s Website
- Cradled in Hope book
- Cradled in Hope Podcast
- While We’re Waiting Retreats & Resources
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
271 | Tiny Cradle, Eternal Impact (Part One) with Ashley Opliger
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
“Lament is slowing down to sit in the sadness and bring it to God.” ~Ashley Opliger
The importance of lament is just one of the topics I discussed with Ashley Opliger on the podcast this week. Ashley is a wife, mom, author, speaker, and the founder of Bridget’s Cradles, a nonprofit ministry she started in memory of her daughter, Bridget.
In this first half of our conversation, Ashley shares her daughter Bridget’s story—the gift of her pregnancy, the joy of preparing for her arrival, and her heartbreaking loss at 24 weeks gestation. We talk about the depth of grief experienced after pregnancy and infant loss, the sting of unhelpful comments, and how lament has been a lifeline in Ashley’s walk with God.
She offers gentle encouragement for moms who may be struggling to pray, wrestling with doubts, or questioning God’s goodness in the midst of their sorrow.
This episode tenderly reminds us that every baby’s life—no matter how brief—has eternal worth.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
- Bridget’s Cradles
- Ashley Opliger’s Website
- Cradled in Hope book
- Cradled in Hope Podcast
- While We’re Waiting Retreats & Resources
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
270 | God Was There (Part Two) with Kelly Uribe
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In this second half of our conversation, Kelly opens her heart about the unique challenges of losing a child to suicide and the long road of learning to live with deep grief. She reflects on the endless “what if” questions, the weight of not knowing, and the disorientation that comes with walking through such profound loss.
Kelly also shares about the “waypoints” that marked her first year of grief—things like unknowing, providence, compassion, God’s presence, gratitude, and even disbelief. Each one became a reminder that even in the valley of sorrow, God was there. Nearly three years later, Kelly testifies to the hope of the resurrection, the nearness of heaven, and the peace she finds in knowing Ernesto is safely with Jesus.
This is a tender and faith-filled conversation about love, loss, and God’s sustaining presence. Kelly’s words will bring comfort to anyone who grieves and encouragement to all who are seeking hope beyond this broken world.
Click HERE to listen to the first half of our conversation.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
269 | God Was There (Part One) with Kelly Uribe
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
Kelly Uribe joins me today to share the story of her son Ernesto—a vibrant, adventurous, and deeply loved young man. She describes his big personality, his penchant for "people gathering", and the artistic eye that set him apart. She also shares about the spring when everything began to change, leading their family into a long and arduous journey through the mental health care system, and ultimately to Ernesto's death by suicide in the fall of 2022.
With great transparency, Kelly recounts the countless appointments, medications, therapies, and programs they pursued in hopes of finding healing for Ernesto. She talks about the challenges of navigating insurance, the hidden isolation families often feel, and the exhaustion of trying to parent a teen in crisis while clinging to hope.
This episode gives us a window into the realities many families face but few discuss openly. It’s a story of deep love, heartbreaking struggle, and the assurance that God was there with them through each uncertain step.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
268 | Writhing, Wrestling, and Worshiping (Part Two) with Chad and Ronni Fellers
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In last week’s conversation with Chad and Ronni Fellers (listen HERE), we heard the story of their son Paxton—his adoption, his joy-filled spirit, and the day their lives changed forever. We also heard how grief has forced them to wrestle deeply with their faith and the goodness of God in the wake of profound loss.
In today’s episode, part two of our conversation, we focus on something many grieving hearts struggle to understand: lament. Chad and Ronni speak honestly about what it means to bring their pain, their questions, even their anger to God—not as a lack of faith, but as a vital expression of it. As Ronni puts it, “When you're wrestling with someone, you're face to face. And if I'm still wrestling with God, it means I haven't turned away.”
We talk about how lament has shaped their grief, their marriage, their parenting, and their perspective on worship. Ronni shares the story behind her blog, The God Kiss, and the healing she’s found in writing her wrestle.
This conversation is a powerful reminder that God welcomes our sorrow—and meets us there with His presence. We’ll pick up right where we left off last week.
Click HERE to watch the Fellers' video testimony produced by Fellowship Bible Church.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
267 | Writhing, Wrestling, and Worshiping (Part One) with Chad and Ronni Fellers
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
We’re beginning a two-part series today with Chad and Ronni Fellers, who invite us into their story and help us understand what it means to grieve with both faith and honesty.
In today’s episode, Chad and Ronni share about their son Paxton, a young man his dad describes as “all gas, no brakes”—his adoption story, his bold and fearless personality, and the morning that marked the beginning of a life-altering journey.
They talk about the six weeks spent in the hospital, the thousands of people who prayed, and the moment they realized God’s healing would look different than they had hoped. Through it all, they speak openly about writhing in pain, wrestling with God, and slowly learning how to worship in the midst of deep grief.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Paxton’s adoption and early years
- His vibrant, fearless personality
- The morning everything changed
- Their six-week stay in the ICU
- The role of faith during trauma
- Honest wrestling with God in grief
- Why lament is a faithful response to suffering
- The recalibration of life after child loss
This episode is not about resolution—it’s about invitation: to lament, to question, and to trust that even in the ache, we are not alone.
Click HERE to watch the Fellers' video testimony produced by Fellowship Bible Church.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
266 | A Lifeline for Bereaved Siblings ... with Bobby Bisterfeldt and Gabby Bisterfeldt
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
As bereaved parents, one of the most pressing questions we grapple with is this: How do I help my surviving children? We want to support them well, but sometimes we’re met with silence or withdrawal. It can feel like we’re walking blind through their grief. That’s why I’m so honored—and genuinely excited—to share this episode with you today.
In this important conversation, I’m joined by Bobby and Gabby, a father-in-law and daughter-in-law who have each experienced the loss of not just one, but two siblings. With honesty, faith, and compassion, they invite us into their stories—stories marked by sudden loss, complicated family dynamics, delayed grief, and eventually, renewed hope.
Together, Bobby and Gabby talk about:
- Why surviving siblings may struggle to talk to their parents
- How grief changes over time, especially as siblings mature
- The impact of loss on their relationships with their parents
- How their own faith has been both tested and strengthened
- Practical ways parents can support their children through sibling loss
They also share about the ministry they co-lead: Sibling Lifeline, a retreat-based community that brings adult grieving siblings together for connection, healing, and hope. The work they’re doing is so needed—and I believe you’ll finish this episode feeling both better equipped and more hopeful as a parent.
Whether you’re longing to understand your child’s grief, or you’ve experienced sibling loss yourself, this conversation will speak to your heart.
Links from the Episode:
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
265 | Hope Comes to Stay with Clarissa Moll
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
I'm so pleased today to be joined by Clarissa Moll—an award-winning writer, podcaster, and author of the bestselling book Beyond the Darkness: A Gentle Guide for Living with Grief and Thriving After Loss. While Clarissa is not a grieving parent, I invited her to the show because of the practical insights she offers about parenting grieving children.
In this episode, she shares her personal journey as a widow and how she’s found hope and healing through faith, community, and creativity. Her wisdom, born from walking alongside her own children through loss, speaks directly to the challenges many of us face as we support our kids through heartbreak.
Clarissa shares the inspiration behind her newest book for children, Hope Comes to Stay, a gentle and beautifully written story that helps young readers understand and process grief. If you’re a parent navigating your own sorrow while trying to care for your child’s heart, this conversation will offer comfort, language, and hope.
In this episode, we discuss:
- Clarissa’s journey after the sudden death of her husband
- How Beyond the Darkness offers practical, compassionate help for grieving hearts
- What it means to parent children who grieve
- Tools and language to help kids process loss
- The inspiration behind her new children’s book, Hope Comes to Stay
- How faith and lament can live side by side
- What flourishing after loss can look like for families
Whether you’re grieving yourself or walking alongside your children in their grief, Clarissa offers a tender reminder that healing is possible—and that you’re not alone on this journey.
Resources Mentioned:
- Beyond the Darkness by Clarissa Moll
- Hope Comes to Stay (Clarissa’s new children’s book)
- Hurt Help Hope (Clariss'a book written with her teen daughter, Fiona)
- Clarissa’s website
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
264 | Blessings for Barrett (Part Two) with Katy Bone
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In this second half of my conversation with Katy Bone, we explore how grief has not only reshaped her life, but also refined her faith and revealed a deeper sense of purpose. Nearly six years after her son Barrett went to heaven, Katy reflects on the ways his short life continues to make an impact.
Katy shares how her grief has evolved over time—from the early days of guilt and resistance to joy, to a place of acceptance where sorrow and hope coexist. She speaks candidly about her struggle with faith in the wake of loss, her anger toward God, and how He patiently met her in every question, every tear, and every step toward healing.
We also talk about Blessings for Barrett, the nonprofit Katy and her husband founded to honor Barrett’s legacy by supporting grieving siblings. Through thoughtfully curated care boxes and a newly released children’s book, their ministry is reaching surviving siblings across the country with the important message: You are not alone.
This episode is a powerful testament to how God brings beauty from ashes—and how even in our deepest pain, He can redeem and restore.
Topics Covered:
- How grief changes over time
- Giving yourself grace in the healing process
- Faith, doubt, and honesty with God after loss
- Supporting grieving siblings through their nonprofit ministry Blessings for Barrett
- Katy’s new children’s book, Buzzy the Bee
- Worship music as a companion in grief
Connect with Katy:
🌐 Blessings for Barrett
📘 Buzzy the Bee and Buzzy the Bee Coloring Book
Be sure to check out Part One of Katy’s story if you haven’t already (linked HERE), and share this conversation with someone who needs to be reminded that God is near in the midst of grief.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
263 | Blessings for Barrett (Part One) with Katy Bone
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In today's episode, I’m joined by my new friend Katy Bone, a wife and mother whose story is marked by both profound loss and enduring hope. In this first part of our conversation, Katy shares the early chapters of her motherhood journey—beginning with the heartbreaking miscarriage of her first son, whom she affectionately nicknamed “Little Bit.” She speaks about the grief that followed, the anxiety of pregnancy after loss, and the joy of welcoming her daughter Poppy.
Katy then invites us into the story of her son Barrett. From a concerning 20-week ultrasound to a complicated delivery and three challenging weeks in the NICU, Katy and her husband walked through a season of emotional whiplash—clinging to hope, praying for healing, and ultimately facing Barrett's homegoing.
Through it all, Katy’s faith shines. She shares how the love of family, the compassion of medical staff, and the promises of Scripture sustained her through the hardest days of her life. This episode is a powerful testament to the strength of a mother’s love and the unwavering presence of God in the midst of suffering.
Topics Covered:
- Miscarriage and pregnancy after loss
- Choosing Barrett's name
- Complications during pregnancy and delivery
- Life in the NICU and the emotional toll of uncertainty
- Barrett’s diagnosis and their final days together
- Making precious memories in the midst of grief
- The nearness of God in deep sorrow
Scriptures Mentioned:
- John 11:35 – “Jesus wept.”
- Psalm 34:18 – “The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.”
Connect with Katy:
🌐 Blessings for Barrett
In next week's episode, we’ll continue our conversation as Katy reflects on how grief has shaped her over the past six years—how it’s changed her identity, her faith, and even her career path. She also shares the beautiful ways Barrett’s legacy lives on through their nonprofit ministry, Blessings for Barrett, which brings hope and comfort to grieving siblings across the country. Be sure to subscribe or follow so you don't miss an episode of the While We're Waiting podcast!
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
262 | The Empty Chair Endeavor (Part Two) with Greg and Cathy Buffkin
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
Welcome back to the second half of my conversation with Greg and Cathy Buffkin.
In today's episode, the Buffkins speak directly to the grieving parent—especially the one who has lost a child to suicide and is wondering how to take the next breath, let alone the next step. With transparency and tenderness, they offer hard-won wisdom from their own journey, sharing what sustained them through the darkest days and how God’s presence, along with the support of others, helped carry them forward.
They share honestly about the emotional weight of guilt, the unique struggles of grieving as a couple, and the often-overlooked pain of surviving siblings. They also introduce us to their beautiful ministry, The Empty Chair Endeavor, and the purpose it’s brought in the wake of devastating loss.
This episode is filled with insight, encouragement, and a message of enduring hope for anyone navigating the deep waters of grief.
Click HERE to listen to the first half of my conversation with the Buffkins.
Click HERE to listen to the Empty Chair Endeavor podcast with Greg Buffkin.
Click HERE to visit the Empty Chair Endeavor website, and HERE to follow their Facebook page.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
261 | The Empty Chair Endeavor (Part One) with Greg and Cathy Buffkin
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
Greg and Cathy Buffkin join me on the podcast today to share the story of their son Ryan—a funny and tenderhearted young man who brought joy and laughter to everyone around him. As we get to know Ryan through their memories, we also learn about the hidden struggles he carried and the heartbreaking loss they experienced when he died by suicide in the fall of 2015.
With honesty and grace, Greg and Cathy open up about the complicated grief that comes with suicide loss, including the misconceptions that often surround it. They speak directly to the false belief that suicide is the unforgivable sin, offering reassurance that Ryan knew the Lord and is with Him now. Our conversation is both tender and powerful, offering hope, truth, and the comforting reminder that God’s love never lets go—even in our deepest sorrow.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Stories of Ryan’s life and personality
- The events leading up to his death
- The discovery of deeply painful truths after his passing
- How Greg and Kathy have processed their grief over the past ten years
- The impact of sibling loss on their surviving daughter
- Gentle, faith-filled advice for parents grieving a suicide
- A reminder that God’s love reaches even into our darkest places
This episode is tender, honest, and full of hope. If you’ve lost a child—or know someone who has—Greg and Cathy’s story will remind you that you are not alone and that God is present, even in the pain.
Resources & Links:
- While We’re Waiting – Support for bereaved parents
- Scripture References:
- Romans 8:1 – “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
- Romans 8:38-39 – “Nothing in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
- Romans 8:28 – “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him…”
Connect with Us:
- Subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode
- Leave a review to help others find hope
- Visit whilewerewaiting.org to learn more about our ministry for bereaved parents
- Come back next week to hear the rest of the Buffkins' story
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
260 | Desperate Prayers (Part Two) with Rachel Wojo
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
Rachel Wojo is my guest once again, and today we shift from her story of parenting her daughter Taylor through a terminal illness to the deeper spiritual lessons that followed her death—lessons about grief, surrender, and the hard, holy work of prayer when God’s answer is “no.”
Rachel shares the story behind her latest book, Desperate Prayers, and talks honestly about wrestling with God, receiving painful judgment from others, and redefining what healing really means. We also explore how prayer connects us to God in the midst of spiritual warfare and how—even when words fail—God hears the cries of our hearts.
Rachel’s story offers not only honest insight but deep encouragement for those walking through grief. Whether you’re wrestling with God, struggling to pray, or simply trying to make it through the day, I believe her words will meet you where you are.
Listen to the first half of our conversation HERE.
Connect with Rachel:
🌐 DesperatePrayers.com
🎙️ Untangling Prayer with Rachel Wojo Podcast
📘 Book: Desperate Prayers
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
259 | Desperate Prayers (Part One) with Rachel Wojo
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In this first half of our two-part conversation, author and speaker Rachel Wojo shares her journey with her daughter Taylor, who was diagnosed with a rare degenerative condition. Rachel opens up about the challenges and the joys of parenting a special needs child, walking through divorce and disappointment, and holding onto her faith as Taylor's health declined, ultimately leading to her homegoing at the age of 22 in 2019.
Rachel is the author of Desperate Prayers and a multitude of other helpful books and resources related to Bible study and prayer. She also hosts an excellent weekly podcast called Untangling Prayer with Rachel Wojo.
In this episode:
- Parenting a child with a terminal illness
- The joys and challenges of special needs caregiving
- God’s grace in the midst of grief and loss
- The miracle of Taylor’s adoption before her homegoing
Connect with Rachel:
Click HERE to visit her website where you can find ALL her resources!
Click HERE to connect with her podcast!
Click HERE to find all of her resources on Amazon!
Next week:
In next week’s episode, we’ll continue our conversation as Rachel shares how her experiences led to her latest book, Desperate Prayers. We’ll talk about what it means to pray when words are hard to find, how to define healing from an eternal perspective, and how to move beyond survival mode after child loss.
You won’t want to miss the wisdom and hope Rachel brings in Part Two. We hope you'll join us then!
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
258 | Questions About Heaven (Part Two) with Austin DeArmond
While We're Waiting® - Hope After Child Loss
In this second half of our two-part conversation, Austin DeArmond returns to the mic to continue exploring some of the most common myths and misunderstandings people have about heaven—especially those that surface in grief and longing after child loss. Austin brings deep scriptural knowledge and a tender heart shaped by personal experience as a bereaved dad himself.
Together, we dive into thought-provoking questions like:
- Do our loved ones in heaven know what’s happening on earth?
- Will our children still be children when we see them again?
- Is heaven really "up in the clouds"?
- Will everyone receive the same rewards in eternity?
- What is the “new earth,” and how does it differ from heaven as we typically imagine it?
- Will we grow, learn, and discover new things in heaven?
Austin also offers biblical encouragement for bereaved parents, reminding us of the hope we have in Christ and the beautiful truth that the best is yet to come.
Be Encouraged: Heaven is not just consolation—it’s compensation. As Austin shares, our sorrows will not only be ended but fully mended in God’s presence. If you’ve ever longed to understand more about where your child is now and what lies ahead for you, this conversation is for you.
Click HERE to listen to the first half of my "Questions About Heaven" conversation with Austin!
Click HERE and HERE to listen to my conversation with Austin and Valerie DeArmond in which they share the full story of their son Gabriel.
Click HERE and HERE to listen to my conversation with Austin regarding myths and cliches about grief.
Click HERE to connect with Austin's blog.
Click HERE to get a copy of Heaven by Randy Alcorn. Also available on Amazon.
** IMPORTANT** - All views expressed by guests on this podcast are theirs alone, and may not represent the Statement of Faith and Statement of Beliefs of the While We're Waiting ministry.
We'd love for you to connect with us here at While We're Waiting!
Click HERE to visit our website and learn about our free While We're Waiting Weekends for bereaved parents
Click HERE to learn more about our network of While We're Waiting support groups all across the country.
Click HERE to subscribe to our YouTube channel
Click HERE to follow our public Facebook page
Click HERE to follow us on Instagram
Click HERE to follow us on Twitter
Click HERE to make a tax-deductible donation to the While We're Waiting ministry
Contact Jill by email at: jill@whilewerewaiting.org
282 | When God Holds the Thread (Part One) with Debra Amick
30:29
281 | The Valley and the Shepherd with Meshea Ingram
48:51
280 | We Are Held with Cheri Fletcher
43:01
279 | An Immeasurable Love with Cindy Shufflebarger
51:10
278 | Marking Time With Hope
25:01
277 | A Dad's Journey to Hope (Part Two) with Terry Sternad
33:06
276 | A Dad's Journey to Hope (Part One) with Terry Sternad
32:53
275 | He Will Hold You Fast (Part Two) with Julie South
40:16
274 | He Will Hold You Fast (Part One) with Julie South
54:25
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273 | Redeeming the Broken Pieces with Kim Allison
1:08:33
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272 | Tiny Cradle, Eternal Impact (Part Two) with Ashley Opliger
27:58
271 | Tiny Cradle, Eternal Impact (Part One) with Ashley Opliger
32:19
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270 | God Was There (Part Two) with Kelly Uribe
49:03
269 | God Was There (Part One) with Kelly Uribe
53:29
268 | Writhing, Wrestling, and Worshiping (Part Two) with Chad and Ronni Fellers
36:15
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267 | Writhing, Wrestling, and Worshiping (Part One) with Chad and Ronni Fellers
40:47
266 | A Lifeline for Bereaved Siblings ... with Bobby Bisterfeldt and Gabby Bisterfeldt
1:28:46
265 | Hope Comes to Stay with Clarissa Moll
29:41
264 | Blessings for Barrett (Part Two) with Katy Bone
28:58
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263 | Blessings for Barrett (Part One) with Katy Bone
37:05
262 | The Empty Chair Endeavor (Part Two) with Greg and Cathy Buffkin
46:06
261 | The Empty Chair Endeavor (Part One) with Greg and Cathy Buffkin
34:36
260 | Desperate Prayers (Part Two) with Rachel Wojo
37:07
259 | Desperate Prayers (Part One) with Rachel Wojo
31:31
258 | Questions About Heaven (Part Two) with Austin DeArmond
41:12