Bereavement from a Palliative Care Nurse’s Perspective

Who is Adrianne Behning? Why would someone choose to go into nursing and specifically become a palliative care nurse? What is a palliative care nurse? How has being a palliative care nurse affected Adrianne’s philosophy of life? What about her feelings about death and dying? What is Adrianne’s podcast about? We’ll discover answers to these questions and more in this enlightening program.

Adrianne Behning is the creator and Host of “Nursing Uncensored.” Adrianne has been a night-shift pulmonary step-down and palliative care nurse since she became an RN in 2016. Before becoming a nurse, she was a certified nurse assistant (CNA) for 11 years, and then she earned her BSN through the University of Iowa College of Nursing. She has been a nurse for the last 4 years.

Adrianne is a huge podcast fan. In 2017, she created her own podcast “Nursing Uncensored” where she interviews nurses of all kinds about their experiences and passions. She also has a blog that brings practical, actionable tips, valuable lessons, and real emotion. She also records videos to let her fans see what products she loves and to exercise her video conference skills with Guests. 

Transcript

Adrianne Behning: 0:00

When that family member lays down on the couches that we provide and falls asleep for like four hours, I feel like I've done my job because they trust me enough that they got to sleep for four hours, and that serves the whole family.

Michael Liben: 0:22

Welcome friends to "Bereaved But Still Me", the podcast formerly known as "Heart to Heart with Michael" a program for the bereaved community. Our purpose is still to empower members of our community with information and support. In recent years, the number of podcasts dealing with grief have grown some, and we are rebranding our podcast to make it easier for the bereaved community to find us. We will still bring you the most interesting members of our community and continue to share stories that we believe will spread comfort and healing. As always, we are still very interested in your comments and questions, so listen further in for just how to reach us. Why would someone choose to go into nursing and specifically become a palliative care nurse? What is a palliative care nurse? How has being one affected in nurses philosophy of life? And how about her feelings about death and dying? We will discover answers to these questions and more in this enlightening program. So tonight, we wanted to discover who is Adrianne Behning, BSN RN, and podcaster extraordinaire is the creator and host of the podcast "Nursing Uncensored". Adrianne has been a nightshift, pulmonary step down and palliative care nurse since she became an RN in 2016. Before becoming a nurse, she was a certified nursing assistant for 11 years, and then she earned her BSN through the University of Iowa College of Nursing. She has been a nurse for the last four years. Adrianne is a huge podcast fan and, in 2017, she created her own podcast,"Nursing Uncensored", where she interviews nurses of all kinds about their experiences and passions. She also has a blog that brings practical, actionable tips, valuable lessons, and real emotion. She also records videos to let her fans see what products she loves, and to exercise her video conference skills with guests. Today's program, "Bereavement From a Palliative Care Nurse's Perspective", will, I hope, be very interesting and a nice opener to our new brand. Adrianne, thank you for coming on "Bereaved But Still Me".

Adrianne Behning: 2:18

Hello, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Michael Liben: 2:23

Let's start with you telling us about your background before you went into nursing,

Adrianne Behning: 2:26

I actually stumbled upon healthcare by accident. I found myself kind of in my mid 20s, didn't have a job, didn't have much direction. And a friend who was doing home care for disabled adults in the community, she suggested that I come on and work with her at this company. And you know, it was it was kind of a fluke, I didn't have anything else to do at the time. And so I, you know, I went and I discovered that I really loved this work of working with disabled adults, and I had a really good aptitude for it. So I applied to the hospital thinking, you know, far, fat chance, you know, far reach, fat chance. And I got hired on the neurosurgery unit as a nursing assistant. And this is a big hospital, this is a level one trauma center associated with a university. And so after years of working all over this hospital with some of the sickest patients in the state or in the region, I thought, well, maybe I should go to nursing school. And my boyfriend, who was my new boyfriend at the time, and is now my tried and true partner of 14 years, at some point was like, "You should go to nursing school". And yeah, so a nurse was accidentally born. But but I do feel that it's become so a part of my life that I can't imagine doing anything else as as difficult as it is even today, I think that I was meant to be led here.

Michael Liben: 4:06

So my next question is what attracts you to nursing as opposed to any other? You know, you've done a lot of things in and around hospitals. What is it about nursing that really zeroes in on it?

Adrianne Behning: 4:16

Yeah, you know, a lot of people don't understand what nurses do. We are the eyes and ears of your physician. Yes, the doctor controls your care, but we are telling the doctor what is happening with you from minute to minute. And so, in that sense, I feel like I really get to help people directly because I'm helping orchestrate their care based on what I know, what I've learned, what I've experienced. But even more than that, nursing is such a vast profession. I've told students and other nurses that I've worked with, the nursing job that you someday do and love might not even exist yet, we don't even know what nursing is going to look like in 20 years. And so for me, that's exhilarating. And if I decide that what I do now is no longer for me, I have a million other choices. That's what keeps me firmly in the nursing profession is there's, there's so much I still want to do.

Michael Liben: 5:20

It's funny, because I thought you'd say, "I just like helping people". Hey -

Adrianne Behning: 5:25

I mean, that's true, too. I mean, you got it. I mean, that's like saying, you know, I'm a mechanic, but I don't really like cars very much. And believe it either, you know, nurses have a dark sense of humor, and there were a lot of jokes about how I love helping people, but God, do I hate people. So there is this battle.

Michael Liben: 5:47

I was a teacher for 18 years.

Adrianne Behning: 5:50

Yeah, you're like I love, I thought I was - But I consider myself an extroverted introvert, which means that I by nature, I'm very introverted, very introspective, very quiet, but I can put on the charm when I need to. And I think my job is to help me do that. And that's not to say that I'm phony. But I can really I can summon the best of myself when I need to

Michael Liben: 6:15

Let's let's let's talk about that exactly. Because we've been using the term a little bit at the beginning- palliative care nursing - I'm not sure if everybody knows what that is. What is that? I imagine it's very, very difficult because I do think I have an idea.

Adrianne Behning: 6:29

Yeah, and actually, it's, it's a, it's a simple explanation for a really complex type of treatment, and

Michael Liben: 6:35

That's what most people think of when you say palliative care, most literally, is symptom management. And so a lot of people confuse palliative care with hospice and hospice with palliative, but really what palliative is, it's any kind of symptom management. So for example, there's a spectrum there, because you can be full code, meaning you still want CPR, you still want life saving treatment, maybe you're going through chemo, maybe your mom is going through chemo, but her nausea is so bad, it's messing with her ability to continue treatment. Palliative Care can step in and say, let's do some interesting, creative things that we are skilled at with medications and treatments, so that you can get your nausea under control and you can potentially go back home. All the way through to the other end of the spectrum, which is people that are in the final hours and days of life. And we are literally there to provide symptom management and basically total care palliative care, that's, that's the point of contact that they think about; when we're no longer trying to repair a situation, but to just make it feel better. Yeah.

Adrianne Behning: 7:57

And yeah, that is what a lot of people think of, and it does include that. But not all of my palliative care patients are at the end of their lives, some of them will go on to, you know, for example, my patients that are you know, as an example actively receiving treatment for cancer, maybe palliative care for them is the thing that gets them over this really difficult hump in their treatment, so that they can finish their treatment and live a lot longer.

Michael Liben: 8:27

Is this something that's really hard to do, though, year after year after year?

Adrianne Behning: 8:30

Yes, and no. You know, it's like anything, I have rough patches, I also have coping mechanisms that need to grow and change as my needs do. Because obviously, you know, some, some days are tougher than others. And also, you know, sometimes when I go to work, depending on...My unit does a lot of different things. Palliative care is one of those things, but there are some days when maybe I don't have any palliative care patients, I can still offer support to nurses who do. So I'm still there, as you know, and you know, an experienced advisor, maybe to nurses that haven't been doing it as long, but not every night. I'm dealing with these heavy things, you know, but like I said, my, my coping and my leaning on my co workers, it varies. Sometimes they need to lean on me sometimes I need to lean on them, but I make sure that I'm always paying attention to what my body and spirit is telling me and if maybe it's a little too much, and I've been dealing with a patient that's really tugging at my heartstrings harder than usual, you know, I might ask to have my assignment changed for my next shift but it always looks different. I try to remember that, while it is difficult to bear witness to suffering and loss and pain and sadness, I am a facilitator of this experience. This is not my pain. This is not my loved one. And while I feel love for them, because I care, because I'm a human and I care, you know, I have to remember that when I am no longer in control in that role of facilitator and caretaker, suddenly, when I see that they're comforting me, because I'm upset, I've stepped out of my role. And that's, that's when I realize I needed to pull back. But for the most part, it's okay to be upset. You know, we have patients that we cry over, I've cried in front of families, they say thank you for caring, thank you for genuinely caring about my mother. But then I gotta remember that other people are counting on me, and I need to pull myself together, that's really difficult to do some days. But some days, I just got to do it. I really feel really good about my job when the family member that's been keeping vigil at the bedside for three or four days and the nurses say, "Oh, my gosh, she's, she's exhausted, she's a little overbearing", and then I meet them and I provide care. But I mean, it's true, we have to be realistic about this, because we need to know how we're going to approach it's not like we're talking crap about families. It's that we need to know what frame of mind people are in so we can meet them where they are. But when that family member lays down on the couches that we provide, and falls asleep for like four hours, I feel like I've done my job because they trust me enough that they got to sleep for four hours, and that serves the whole family.

Michael Liben: 11:42

Many of our listeners know that moment really, really well. They know that trust they do from from the other end, you know. It's nice for us to hear from you.

Adrianne Behning: 11:53

And we don't take that lightly. At least I don't I don't take that lightly at all. When I see that, that that trust is in me, I make sure I'm doing my rounds, I make sure that their needs are met, I make sure that that family member does not wake up to find that, you know, and of course sometimes I get busy and emergencies happen and you know, people are understanding when it's the exception and not the rule. But those are the victories for me is when families says like, wow, I really I really fell asleep there for a while and it's like,"Good, good". Because I'm, I sometimes I feel like I'm as much their nuse as I am their loved ones' nurse, you know.

Anna Jaworski: 12:32

You are listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael Liben at michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. That's michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Michael Liben: 13:12

We learned at the top of the program that you are indeed a podcaster. Why don't you tell us about that?

Adrianne Behning: 13:17

It all began back in 2014 when I started nursing school, and I actually discovered a few nursing podcasts that I loved. I was listening to them during my commute, in my downtime, and discovered that a lot of what they were talking about on the shows was proven useful in class when I would have some random tidbit of information.

Michael Liben: 13:42

When does a nursing student have time, not just to listen to podcasts but to go out and make one, okay?

Adrianne Behning: 13:48

Well, I mean...

Michael Liben: 13:49

It's not 30 or 40 minutes a year. It's a lot more than that.

Adrianne Behning: 13:53

To be fair, I didn't actually start the podcast until I was actually a nurse. But as I was listening to all these podcasts, I realized that there's great content out there. And not only can all of these nursing podcasts exist now because they're all so different. But at the time, I felt like there was a lot of content about the science of nursing, the medications, the pathophysiology, all of these things, but there wasn't anything about living life as a nurse, you know, the stuff that they don't teach you in nursing

school: 14:28

the stresses, the joys, the weird stuff, the stuff that people wouldn't believe, the stuff that you can't talk about

Adrianne Behning: 14:34

Well, I don't I don't want to be crass, but with normal people because a nurses brain just works you know, I've, I've seen a lot of really horrific stuff. I'm completely differently.

Michael Liben: 14:41

Can you tell me something I wouldn't believe right now? not I'm not going to go into that. But like medical stuff, some people don't have a stomach for it. And so it's very easy to say the wrong thing to the wrong crowd, and suddenly everybody put off their dinner. So I won't say any more than that. But let's just say, Excellent. Well, you know, the podcast for me was an outlet to talk about those things that were an issue for me, the things that were frustrating me, the things I didn't know how to deal with, the things that maybe didn't seem to have a spot, an outlet for me. So myself and a couple other friends who are also nurses started this podcast where it just started out, we were just talking about random topics that make nurses laugh or educate them or empower them. And then it kind of evolved, they went off to do their own things, and they're doing very well in their lives. But I stuck with the podcast, this was kind of my baby. And so now I interview nurses, nursing assistants, social workers, massage therapists, all sorts of people, to help nurses survive the day to day life living as a nurse. So that's kind of where it all began. That's kind of nice. Really, I think I think every profession deserves a podcast like that. Where they can sit around and talk freely. I guess part of coping is getting things out.

Adrianne Behning: 16:23

Yeah, yeah. And you know, as as an uncensored podcast, yeah, we you know, sometimes the language is a bit blue. Sometimes we talk about things that are kind of gross, but mostly the"uncensored" refers to, "we're going to talk about it". If you have a question, if you're having an issue, you know, a lot of times the topics that I choose, or the things I write about, are directly from questions people have asked me through email, Instagram, however they choose to message me. So it really is a work that is in step with my audience.

Michael Liben: 17:01

Your program is, is perfectly placed for what it is where it is and when it is. I mean, you just hit it, right. And if anybody's listening, who's a nurse, I urge you, I urge you, as soon as you finish listening to this program, run over and listen to "Nursing Uncensored". If you have better numbers, you probably already, there isn't a nurse, anyone outside of Antarctica who hasn't heard this podcast. But let's go on a bit. But you you know, you are a woman of many, many talents. What about the blog?

Adrianne Behning: 17:33

So the blog was originally just all sorts of random stuff. It was like my public journal entry. Basically, it became content that was either things that were very much like journal entries for me that I wanted to share with my audience. Like, every year, I do my professional goal list, and I revisit the one from the year before. I've only done four of those, I've only been a nurse four years. But some of it is that. You know, it's interesting to see how your goals change and how things that you think you want in the beginning maybe don't even matter, and that it's okay to change your goals. And it's okay to say, "Well, I didn't hit that mark". But instead of looking at it as a failure I'm going to look at it as, is that even something that I want anymore? You know, is this even a goal? So that has prompted me to kind of keep the blog going. And also, it's a lot of, you know, products that I like, or guest guest letters that they've sent me that I've decided to answer, like I said, not enough to be a podcast, but there's so much content there. And it spans over years. I've even taken stuff that I wrote academically and I've made it less academic because I think that information is valuable.

Michael Liben: 18:54

But that's not the end of it, you do it all right? You have your podcast and you blog, you also do videos. I've heard rumors that you can fly, change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel with your bare hands, you're faster than a speeding bullet, and more powerful than a locomotive. So tell us about the YouTube channel...

Adrianne Behning: 19:12

I also cook, to add to the list. So the YouTube channel is actually the neglected child in the family. And I do create content there and I do like the content I've created there but that is the thing that is the smallest. I only have a couple 100 followers. You know, things, my, I talk about how I use my Fitbit Versa watch, my smartwatch, on my job, like I talk about what features I use and how I use them in in my actual tasks at work. So things like that things that require a visual element. And then as of late, I've also started putting my video interviews up there. So the podcast itself now has a video component because I really have gotten, and I mean, I figure, if I like watching video podcasts, other people might as well. So that gives me or that gives me a reason during this kind of period of social distancing and staying home to actually put on makeup and, you know, pretend like it's normal life again.

Michael Liben: 20:25

But so, to do that, and listeners, please know, we're going to be playing with video a little bit we have already once before that, we'll be doing it again, I hope.

Adrianne Behning: 20:35

It's just the whole thing is just been a cool experience. And I'm, I'm trying to help people out while I have a lot of fun basically.

Michael Liben: 20:46

If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website, heartsunitetheglobe.org and make a contribution. This program is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to educate, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at congenitalheartdefects.com. For information about CHD, hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families, and much, much more. How is being a nurse who helps families when loved ones are at the end of their lives affect your philosophy of life? What? What happens to you over the long run?

Adrianne Behning: 21:33

That's a really great question. And I think that I'm going to have to give kind of a cliche answer. And that is that probably the most profound thing that I've realized is that the human experience is very fragile. And that gratitude is incredibly important. In, in some of the care that I provide some, you know, patients of mine that find themselves at the end of their lives, they have an illness or a sudden injury or something that even though they're not ready to be done with life, they have to kind of face this down. And those are the people that I have learned the most from, because they say to me, you know, make sure you get your breaks and make sure you tell your loved ones that you love them, make sure that you know the people that are facing their own mortality have this oftentimes have this profound appreciation, because they've lost so much of what they were able to do so quickly. I don't see those same experiences with perhaps folks that are, you know, they're they're not able to talk to me for whatever reason, they're not responsive, or, you know, perhaps they're actively dying, that's a term that we use when symptoms indicate that it's progressing. And I know that that gratitude that I get from those patients that are able to communicate with me, that's never lost on me. I also have learned that human beings are both incredibly fragile, and incredibly resilient at the same time.

Michael Liben: 23:15

This is true, this is true.

Adrianne Behning: 23:16

Yeah, and I'm really, not only am I grateful, it's oh, so many thoughts are running in my mind, I'm sorry to stumble. But this is, this is what it makes me think of it makes me think of everything from I'm glad my arms and legs work, and that my internal organs work and my brain works and everything is going the way I want it to. But then I also think, you know, I'm grateful that this person has their family here. And that even though COVID is very present in the place I live right now, people get to have their loved ones at the bedside, there are all these things that I'm grateful for. And there are all these things that my patients, whether they're directly telling me, or just indirectly, I'm learning that we need to make sure that we're not taking any of these days for granted. So I know that's very cliche, you know, be grateful...

Michael Liben: 24:11

I'm not really sure that's a cliche, because I think that really is what it's like, yeah, I have had my time with loved ones close to their own death. And sometimes you get there in time, and sometimes you don't. And sometimes they can talk to you, and sometimes they can't. Yeah, and I don't think that you've said anything here that's a cliche. It's true. And if truth is a cliche, then it's a cliche, but i don't, I'm not I'm not buying that here. I think these are really, really deep insights. So I have only one question on that. People tell you things and you learn things and you develop a certain wisdom by being around others who are dying. Does it strike you as sad that in some cases, they are coming to these wisdom moments now.

Adrianne Behning: 25:04

Yes and no. You know, yes, you want people to have these, these insights and these wisdoms when they are able to appreciate them and act upon them. But also, a lot of these people have, you know, a lot of these people say, you know, I'm, I'm ready. And I think that there's this even when people aren't ready, I think people have this sense about them of when their life is coming to an end. And in some ways, I'm going to talk about this, just briefly, I don't want to get too far off on a tangent, but there's a book called, there's a book called "Special Gifts". I believe that I'll have to give you the author to share in the show notes. But it's a book of stories of people at the end of life, themes that keep coming up, whether it be people saying things that, you know, they think, oh, she's just confused, she keeps asking about her shoes, she keeps asking about a train ticket...

Michael Liben: 26:01

Their stories. Life storie. And, and so they are so connected.

Adrianne Behning: 26:05

This is real, this is real. So even though sometimes we don't have control over the ends of our lives, and how our lives come to an end, sometimes we do. And I tell people, I tell my patients that all the time, hey, I not may not be able to control the outcome in the long run. But we can control what we do in this minute. And I think that some people, whether they're conscious or not have this sense of what they are doing and what is, you know, what they're experiencing, and some people know when it's their time to go. And some patients, even some, some people that I take care of, they'll have family at the bedside days at a time. They haven't left the bedside, there's always someone keeping guard, keeping watch, making sure grandmas still breathing, making sure dad is still okay. And then the minute that last person falls asleep, or that one person decides I'm just going to sneak out real quick and get some coffee. That's when people pass. Yeah. And so I think that what I've learned is that, whether conscious or not, people have a sense about them. And that, that creates a brutal honesty between me and my patients. You know, I've had patients say to me, "Am I dying?" And I have to say to them, "I believe you are". And what, and what we do with that is then you know, guided by what's important to them, what I know about them, what can I control. It can be very humbling, and very empowering all at the same time. But the number one thing I've learned is that people, they they have a sense about them, and you have to listen to that you have to follow what what they're telling you. And that I that that they don't teach, I can learn about medications and drains and nursing cares. But the thing is, is that you've got to listen to your patients.

Michael Liben: 28:07

I'm curious as someone who's not a nurse, and does not play one on TV. How much of nursing school is psychology courses?

Adrianne Behning: 28:19

Yeah, all of it, you know,

Michael Liben: 28:21

There's a psychology course in there...

Adrianne Behning: 28:24

Oh, in psychology. Um, I probably took psychology half of a summer session in the middle of my ADN program. But you have to remember that all of it is when I jokingly say all of it, really because all of it, it's inter, intermingled. So my main nursing classes are I took Fundamentals of Nursing One, took Fundamentals of Nursing Two. And there's so much packed into that it would rattle the eyeballs right out of your head. And so it's it's all in there, but the formal psychology, I got maybe five weeks, four weeks, I don't know.

Michael Liben: 29:03

And not just from talking to you. I've had unfortunately, a lot of experience with hospitals over the years, a lot of experience with nurses, and doctors and I think the better ones are the ones who really know how to get into your head and talk to you in a way that's meaningful. And, and my only example that I can think of is I remember once when my daughter was waiting for heart surgery, and it was important heart surgery, and we were getting bounced around between doctors and I felt that I was in some sort of power struggle football game that had nothing to do with either me or my daughter. I just hauled off on the phone on one of the doctors I said stop thinking like a doctor and start thinking like a father and talk to me. And and it seems to me that the better ones really don't need to be reminded.

Adrianne Behning: 29:50

Yes, that is true. Sometimes, we do need to separate ourselves a little bit. And the only thing I can say to that is no one has the right to make you feel like you're a number on a chart somewhere. But at the same time, sometimes people do it on purpose because they're feeling stuff that they just can't feel right now. You know, they have to put that wall up. So I don't know the case of you know who what that physician was going through. But sometimes we do need reminders like, "Hey, snap out of it!"

Michael Liben: 30:22

We did that. The day after I did that they call, start to call on me to schedule surgery and things started moving forward. I know, I'm not particularly happy about that,

Adrianne Behning: 30:32

Yeah, that I don't condone.

Michael Liben: 30:35

If you're not good at that you won't be a nurse for very many years. If you're not good at that, you won't be a doctor for many for many, very many years, you need a sense of empathy. I don't know if you can get one if you don't have one. But if you have one, you can maybe develop it into something that's bigger and better and more useful.

Adrianne Behning: 30:54

Overall. Everyone who does palliative care has different ways of handling it. And sometimes we don't handle it as well as we'd like to. I'm in a place in my life right now, where I feel like I'm handling it pretty well, my life is balanced the way I need it to be. But at the same time, I still have those days where I come home and I lose it. You know, I have a memento from a patient sitting on a shelf beside my desk here. And I'm debating whether or not I want to keep it out because every time I look at it, I think of her and it just makes me sad. So there are you know, there are things that I suffer with too. I'm not like, you know, brushing it off completely. But I think that anytime you do work that involves emotion, you have to accept the fact that some of that you're going to carry with you and you have to figure out how to carry it so it doesn't hurt you.

Michael Liben: 31:44

What advice do you have for families who are dealing with palliative care right now?

Adrianne Behning: 31:48

Here's the advice that I want to give to families that are either already involved in palliative care or are thinking about it, my number one thing I can say is, "Be brave". Because there's a lot of unknown. There are a lot of scary things. And there's a lot of chatter, about what palliative care and what hospice care is. But good palliative care and good hospice care is support. It's not giving up, it's not throwing in the towel, it is making sure that those moments that are passing, are going to pass with comfort and dignity and support for the family. And it can go on for much longer than just those last few days of life. And so I encourage people, be brave, this is scary to talk about. It's scary to hear providers use words like this. But it can mean the difference between someone dying in pain with medical tubes and horrible things sticking out of them. Or it can mean your family with your loved one, unencumbered without all of the horrible things that don't have to come with the end of life. And so I encourage people to be brave, open your hearts, open your mind and really listen to what these care providers are offering you. Because while it's scary, it could be the thing that makes the difference between a trauma and a closure that's filled with love and as much peace as we can pack into it. So that's the most important thing I'd like people to come away from this knowing is that there's so much we can do. We just need you to hear us.

Michael Liben: 33:38

That's beautiful. It really is. Thank you so much for being on our program,"Bereaved But Still Me".

Adrianne Behning: 33:43

Thank you for inviting me. I've loved talking to you. Thank you so much to your listeners for listening as well.

Michael Liben: 33:50

Thank you for sharing your experiences and your stories. And I want to remind our listeners that"Bereaved But Still Me" will be back at the beginning of next month. Please join us for a brand new podcast and I'll talk with you soon but until then please remember moving forward is not moving away. Thank you.

Anna Jaworski: 34:13

Thank you for joining us, we hope you have felt supported in your grief journey. "Bereaved But Still Me" is a monthly podcast and a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month. You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcasts at any time. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".