Strung Out Episode 192: INTERVIEW WITH CHICAGO POET HOWARD FRIEDMAN

Chicago has had a poetry scene for decades, going back to the 1980's when such events as the Uptown Poetry Slam began.  Chicago poetry has a unique cadence and flow that today is found almost everywhere.  Poet Howard Friedman has been part of the scene for some time now.   His approach to poetry is akin to the way Jackson Pollock would take on a canvas--stream of consciousness, take-no-prisoners sort of writing that eschews self-editing.  To look at his handwritten prose is to see hastily lettered words, much more akin to a typed page than cursive, writing.  It is that which makes his work so interesting.  The structure and presentation is down to what sort of pen flows easier across the paper.  Add to that the presentation, live on stage and the artistry of Friedman's work is totally revealed.   For the avid poetry lover--here is a slice of that deep-dish poetry that makes Chicago still the epicenter of the written and spoken word. 

Transcript

[00:00:00] Martin McCormack: Hey, everybody. Great to have you with us. And I have with me poet Howard Friedman. And if that name sounds familiar, we've had his father on Strung Out in the past, but Howard is a poet. And let's start this off with you reading a poem and then we're going to get into everything about being a poet.

[00:00:24] Howard Friedman: All right. Hello, everyone out there in Radio Land. This one is called Sugar in the Bowl. I found a snake in the woods. I want to better understand myself. All this art to better understand myself. Don't drink paint. Feel better. For years, I only did the brush stroke. Never back or butterfly. The butterfly's on my back.

[00:00:52] I feel better than I have in years. I walk into the CVS and buy the medication for the person behind me. My Japanese is spotty. I've stopped asking God why I was born and just start thanking him. A Japanese staircase in your backyard that leads to nowhere. There is always time. There is always time. As long as you are alive, you are doing great.

[00:01:18] Put on a girl's heart like a pin. Let the sugar in your drink find its way into orbit. Do better. Feel better. Do more. Feel more. Believe in yourself. Let anything you do not need go. This will be a great year. This is your time. A Japanese staircase in your backyard that leads to nowhere, and you're standing on it.

[00:01:44] All the better to see the stars.

[00:01:49] Martin McCormack: That is so cool. The imagery that you have there and I'm going to you're hearing a little sound guys It's just me. I'm adjusting my microphone so cool and Right out of my mouth is a Japanese stairs in your backyard to study the stars What's that all about? 

[00:02:16] Howard Friedman: It's just an image that came to me where Yeah, a staircase that leads to nowhere, and what do you do if the staircase leads nowhere?

[00:02:26] Not much, right? The first thing you think is that's useless. You got to use what you have, and doesn't have a traditional use, but you can certainly go to the top and just look at the star. So I just write stream of consciousness. So all this just came out. It was somewhere in me.

[00:02:43] And now you're all hearing it and sharing it. But that was the image I 

[00:02:46] Martin McCormack: was working with.

[00:02:47] I love it. Because it's very much like a Bob Dylan y thing where are you, when you stream of consciousness stuff is it to hear the interplay between the words like Dylan does, or is it more, is there a cadence?

[00:03:06] What is it that because poetry is such a. Difficult thing, I think, to pull off. 

[00:03:14] Howard Friedman: I think you're pretty close already. I do write by ear, which is the rhythm of it. I grew up in Hebrew school and started learning Hebrew. And often I would not understand what they were saying, but I would understand how they were saying it.

[00:03:36] And so I think I carried a lot of that with me, where it's just da and that's the part that makes sense. And then it's fill in the blank. 

[00:03:48] Martin McCormack: That's, it's funny 'cause when you're I didn't expect the Hebrew school cadence. I was going to say it's a Chicago cadence, but maybe that's what it is.

[00:03:59] Maybe we get this cadence from Hebrew school, even though some of us are have never stepped foot in and read the Torah. But there's a, there is a certain kind of way in which you bring out these words. And then once they're out there, the listener has to just, they're like little pictures you put by. Is that the deliberate intention or? Oh, 

[00:04:28] Howard Friedman: yeah. Very imagistic. Yeah, it's more of the images tell the story and how the images relate to each other. I was, I went to school for poetry at Knox College for about four years. And what, something, someone said something about my work that stuck with me, which is like, there's the trappings of narrative.

[00:04:49] So to me, that kind of means the images are speaking to each other more than, this happened on this 

[00:04:53] Martin McCormack: day. I love it. The trappings of narrative. There, that person, whoever said that is accurate. Because what I get the sense of is that there is a story. Being told, but you it's almost like looking at an impressionistic painting.

[00:05:10] Your words are painting an image of which I get the feeling out of, but if you were to say to me, Hey, Marty, a Japanese staircase. I would have to say what do you, what are you driving at? But did you so you studied poetry at Knox college. Was this, has this always been like a burning desire then to be a poet?

[00:05:35] Yeah, 

[00:05:35] Howard Friedman: absolutely. Ever. So when I was in fourth grade, I won a. Like citywide writing contest and ever since And I had some help with my mom and publishing the actual book But we made some physical books at the time and ever since then I mean if you Ever go through any of my drawers if a robber comes in he's gonna see nothing but poetry just drawers and drawers full.

[00:06:03] And that's been high school. That's, it's been always, 

[00:06:06] Martin McCormack: Let me ask you this, because I asked this of any songwriter These poems you have in your drawers, is that your junk pile? Is that your like thing where you will be like, man I want to work on a poem, I'm going to go and. Pull out some old poems and take that snippet, take that piece and fabricate something.

[00:06:32] Does that work in this case, or? Yeah, 

[00:06:35] Howard Friedman: absolutely. I would definitely say the writing process and the editing process are two separate things. And often, just the other day I was doing some editing on stuff I wrote about two years ago. And I was like, huh, there's some good stuff in here. And at the time, you just You can't look at it with fresh eyes so you either need somebody else to look at it or yourself two years later to be like, oh, this isn't good, or wow, this, I was really on to something.

[00:07:03] Martin McCormack: So you have to be your own editor when you're doing poetry. I have gone to poetry slams in the past. I've seen people get up and do poems and it's a difficult thing because poetry is so subjective. It's. Yeah, you have people that are willing to tell you snap their fingers or whatever or hiss or whatever with poems.

[00:07:29] Are you past that stage? Are you I don't need to read my poems to the general public, or are you more not only do I want to read my poems, I want my poems to come out in books, and I want you to buy my books. We're, how does it work as a poet these days? Sure 

[00:07:48] Howard Friedman: Reading verbally is always a huge thing for me.

[00:07:52] I'm frequently in the poetry open mic scene, and there's a lot of different poetry open mics in town. In fact, I'm going to be at one. Saturday, March 2nd at Tangible Books in Bridgeport. They have a weekly poetry open mic on Saturdays. And then a good friend of mine, Gregorio Gomez, is going to feature that night, and I'm going to read some poems.

[00:08:15] And so I'm always doing the verbal sharing. I come on the Mr. Marty Show. Make sure you watch that. But when it comes to the publishing of the books, it's something I'm working on. It's definitely a goal of mine. I'm in that editing process to try to do that. Yeah. 

[00:08:33] Martin McCormack: And poets, are you able to make a living doing poetry or is this more a labor 

[00:08:40] of love?

[00:08:41] Howard Friedman: Definitely labor of love first and unfortunately last. 

[00:08:47] Martin McCormack: As is everything in art, it seems, these days. It's very tough to make it, I think, in the arts period. Have you ever, Been familiar with the Poetry Out Loud competitions, the sort of things that they, like the state of Illinois runs or the state of Iowa.

[00:09:10] There's certain competitions that are out there. Is it a goal of yours to bring this to a national audience? Is that your feeling? Where do you see Howard Friedman, the poet, going on your trajectory? 

[00:09:24] Howard Friedman: Yeah I would love that. I think my next goal is to put out a book and then however that comes out.

[00:09:35] I just want to get out there. If it's self published, great. If I find a publisher, great. But I imagine. It may have to start as self publishing, and then I would just up the amount of live performances I'm doing. And just bring it with me. And become that old fashioned salesman where it's I got it on me.

[00:09:55] Yeah. Yeah, 

[00:09:57] Martin McCormack: I've seen Marc Smith do that in the past. He had the book Crowd Pleaser. That was the seminal Marc Smith book of poetry and it's neat where you see other poets that have published books. That's the currency, isn't it? To have all the poems put together has it changed any way with social media, with blogs?

[00:10:23] Do poets now just hang out at a poetry shop online a virtual here's my blog, here's my poems. Do you have that kind of thing set up? 

[00:10:35] Howard Friedman: Yeah. Outside of the vast community of poets that I've met through the open mic scene there's like a place called all poetry. com where people just.

[00:10:47] Post their poetry and give feedback to each other. It's like a social media site for poets where you know, you follow other poets and then Honestly, I've gotten some really good feedback there and I've got a couple poems on all poetry that people can read. And it's just a great place for people to support each other.

[00:11:04] And I'm sure if you really pursued it there, you can make a network as well. 

[00:11:10] Martin McCormack: Okay. Let's have you read another poem. And we're listening here to Howard Friedman. What's the name of this poem? 

[00:11:18] Howard Friedman: This is called The Chest in the Attic Where I Keep the Last Ten Years. Wow. 

[00:11:22] Martin McCormack: Okay. That's a good. Wow.

[00:11:25] Okay. Go for it. Sorry. No please. I just, even the fact that title is great. Okay. Go for 

[00:11:32] Howard Friedman: it. The chest in the attic where I keep the last 10 years. You've always wanted to be a staircase. Your back doesn't get up and walk away while you're sleeping. It wants to be with you. You have thousands of hearts.

[00:11:48] Thousands of eyes. Your bloom happens suddenly. Unexpectedly. I'm one of those people that can be happy anywhere. Even if you're shoveling dirt on me. Never give up. Your shadow is starting to understand you. Your mattress is getting up the urge to speak. Your house plant, it's its graduation day. And I don't know how we got here, but we're in love with each other.

[00:12:14] Congratulations. That chest in the attic where I keep the last ten years. In your chest, where all the birds sing. You tried on a dress, something as simple as that, and now you feel beautiful. The white and the black tell you it's okay to be alive. It makes your olive covered skin say there was never a pit at all.

[00:12:35] Never. You were just afraid to love yourself. Love is like that. You have to say it's okay. You have to allow it. You have to let it change you. You have to trust it. The white and the black tell you it's okay to feel the way you want to feel. The sunshine tells you are a friend, waiting for everyone, but you have to find one in yourself first.

[00:13:03] The devil's impartial, he hates us all, but people are very partial, particular. Don't worry, we have made a game of it. I choose you to protect. Thousands of hearts, thousands of eyes, but only one man, who you find more beautiful the fatter he gets, and the more his hair turns gray. Horses don't need riders, they're not even supposed to have them.

[00:13:28] I am in no rush. I will never forget you. Some lesser men would say you are my mind. The chest where I keep the last ten years opens up and I free and release it. It's okay. You are doing fine. The sunshine grows my soul. It does not have a purpose. I am happy to be alive. 

[00:13:52] Martin McCormack: Wow that's a beautiful poem.

[00:13:54] There's so many great lines in that poem. And I want to talk about that poem and then I'm looking at how you write, literally write out your poetry. And I want to talk about that too, but first folks, we're going to take a little break here. We are interviewing Howard Friedman, a poet, a Chicago poet, and we're talking about his work and how he goes about his work. 

[00:14:26] Being a poet, you are listening to Strung Out.

[00:14:41] And we're back! Alright. Howard tell me what that poem the last 10 years is about.

[00:14:51] Howard Friedman: I think in a big way it's about stepping into a better state of mind and a better time in your life. Telling yourself that it's okay to feel good, and I wrote it on a beautiful spring day that happened the other day. The sun was out for the first time in months, it felt and it just felt good on your skin and in your bones.

[00:15:17] And it led me to that image of when you get new clothes and you look at yourself in a different way. Oh my God I didn't know. And it's something as simple as a new shirt or new shoes. And it just, how it can build your confidence. So I'm like, what's the relationship there?

[00:15:33] Martin McCormack: Yeah. And is it? A fresh baked poem like this, I'm looking at the sheet of paper that you wrote it on and I don't see like couplets. I don't see like stanzas. What I see is like somebody writing a short story and you're writing it in your own hand. Tell us a little bit about that. Why? Why does this work for you?

[00:16:01] Howard Friedman: It works a lot. You know what you're saying about no couplets, no stanzas. It's really you. You're seeing flow. You're seeing flow of ideas, literally flow of the hand movement, and there, I find there's really a relationship between the hand, the pen, and the blank page. And I use this one type of pen, I've been using the same type of pen for years, and I just, really, it's a flow, it moves.

[00:16:27] The hand moves, you can watch the hand moving, and You just don't question your ideas in a way that if you're on the computer that backspace key is right there, that delete key is right there, and that, I always feel that's the enemy for writers, is censoring or editing while you're writing.

[00:16:43] You just want to flow. 

[00:16:45] Martin McCormack: And it, in some ways, looking at this sheet, it reminds me of scripture. A Torah I haven't looked at one except for what I've seen in in museums, like in Prague where they have this beautiful Jewish museum. The idea that it just flows and isn't that right?

[00:17:14] Where you have to run it with your finger to read it. Is that part of the cadence then is writing it this way? 

[00:17:24] Howard Friedman: Yeah it's just all about that movements, that lyrical movement the dot. And when your hand can move quickly you're not. You're not, I don't hit any space bars when I write this and even that one second breaks up the flow of thought. 

[00:17:41] All I do is I just flow it, I put a little mark, like this kind of mark here, when I'm, when the poem is done, right into the next one. Oh, wow. So there's often multiple poems on a page. 

[00:17:52] Martin McCormack: Folks to describe this it's it is, it's just one full sheet of printed, handprinted poetry. I see you're not using cursive, and I'm curious to hear What is that pen that you like to use?

[00:18:12] Howard Friedman: It's a Pentek O Gel. I, yeah, that's the exact type of pen it is, yeah. See, 

[00:18:18] Martin McCormack: this is really cool because this is now getting into the artist part of me, that I try to find a decent pen to do certain projects. And so like a flow ball or something, one of those so you have your weapon of choice, if you will.

[00:18:39] And so if somebody wants to hand you another pen, you'd be like no, I, I really need a, I, that's great. I think it's so cool. Is this just something that you would recommend to others to, to pursue? 

[00:18:54] Howard Friedman: Oh yeah. If you want to do the type of thing I do where it just. really flows. The pen really flows.

[00:19:00] I've used your ballpoint your BICs, and they write slow. Your hand has to move in a certain way that Those ideas come out slower for me, literally. 

[00:19:13] Martin McCormack: It's so funny. I love it because I will find myself at times like with a strange pen and I'll test it and I'll be like, and if I find it to my liking then I'm like, Oh.

[00:19:27] I better secret this away so I can order more of these so I think that's really cool that you have been writing with the same instrument in the same style. Let me ask you this, though, about self editing, since you are writing in a flow, very much like a contemporary poet does. At least what I've seen from poetry slams, where they get up and they're bum.

[00:19:56] Do you ever go back and edit these things? 

[00:20:00] Howard Friedman: I definitely do. It's a mountain. It's a mountain of work to go through. But I do. And I honestly feel the way I write, it's like catching lightning in a bottle. So it's you can tell pretty easily when you go back and read it. I caught it this time, or I didn't catch it.

[00:20:21] End. When you catch it there's less editing that needs to be done. Maybe a line or two, but if you felt that inspiration and you're really just describing the way you felt at the time, which is why it's not the man went to the store, this happened, it's You're capturing how you felt.

[00:20:40] Martin McCormack: Okay. I always hear that famous story of Walt Whitman with Leaves of Grass. And I have found it crazy that Walt Whitman would go back and go back. Into the leaves of grass and correct poems that he had already published. I'm just like, wow, that just, I can't imagine that being a way for an artist.

[00:21:11] Because certainly in songwriting, you don't want to do that. I, you wouldn't want the Beatles to go in, recut Sergeant Peppers and say, Oh yeah this song's wrong. This yeah, I guess what I'm asking you with this is at what point do you say it's finished? 

[00:21:34] Howard Friedman: Yeah for my process, because I think you're right, the great writers do go back in and back in, and the ones that I've come across I've talked to a lot of great playwrights, and they're like, oh, I've edited this thing 35 times, so I think for me, What I do is I read in public fairly often and at open mics and different featured readings And so when I when it's time to read I'm like, oh man, I need to bring it I need to catch something and then I do the editing because it's like it's one thing to just for yourself But when someone else is gonna hear it you want to let the voice you're trying to get out really get out So at that point you take your editing to it and I'll be honest You're getting the uncut dope right here.

[00:22:21] This has not been edited. You're looking at it. That's 

[00:22:24] Martin McCormack: fantastic. I this is perfect that you're bringing raw, just freshly baked poetry here. Let's have you read another poem and then we're going to take a break. And when we come back, I want to talk to you about the physicality of poetry. 

[00:22:42] And we'll, I'll leave it at that, but give us another poem. 

[00:22:49] Howard Friedman: Those who rub ears together for fire. The kids keep disappearing in the sprinkler system. Chemtrails. Colors becoming other colors. You are a product of love. You accept me. The sunrise is a little boy jumping into the pool. Look at me.

[00:23:10] Look at me. Fussing and fighting with an invisible friend. Fathers must always be visible. Your blonde hair makes you special, keeps you special. There was a big sale, but we both remained. Black Friday spared us. Christmas spared us. New Year's spared us. Went to watch wrestling instead. The men act like they hate each other, but really, they are the best of friends.

[00:23:39] I am the Frankenstein of love. I am made up of parts of different people. I am the Frankenstein of love. I see friend in the night. When I'm sick, your eyes hold each other for comfort. When I'm sick, the world's sick. No, that's not even true. I take some spice, spill it on the floor, so the dog knows what it's like to need more.

[00:24:04] I look at you. You are enough. I throw the spice away. The paprika, the chili powder, the turmeric, all in the spicy garbage. To give the landfill a taste of what it's like to need more. New Year's spared us, but we ripped it to shreds. Pieces of the last year on the floor. A hummingbird passes through this world and into the next.

[00:24:29] The clock speaks one English word, and then decides he doesn't like it. The word? Vulnerability. Skinny little children have no idea what they will become. Think most people are astronauts. I don't know how it got better, but it got better. Thank you. 

[00:24:52] Martin McCormack: We're gonna take a little break, and we'll be right back.

[00:24:55] You are listening to Strung Out. And we're back! And Howard this poem, what's the title of it? Those Who 

[00:25:07] Howard Friedman: Rub Years Together for Fire. 

[00:25:09] Martin McCormack: Wow. Those Who Rub Years Together for Fire. That's Each one of these could be, like, a great title to a book of poetry. I agree. When you get up on stage to give poet and everything's going off into the ether,

[00:25:30] you, as a poet you don't really get that opportunity that, like musicians do, where you can record a song. And you can say here it is, here's my song. You get a book of poetry in which the person's reading in their own voice. But that temporary ness that exists in poetry slams and poetry readings, is that a necessary element to make this work?

[00:26:01] Howard Friedman: That's a really good question. I wouldn't say necessary but it's an ethereal thing. Makes me think of those there's those Buddhist monks who take months or even years to make these elaborate sand labyrinths and these beautiful these beautiful tapestries out of sand they got these beautiful patterns and as soon as they're done, they just wipe it away and and then a lot of Americans are like, why would you do something like that?

[00:26:37] And they said that to teach impermanence. So I feel in the poetry world and definitely in the theater world, where I've spent a lot of my time it you're there or you weren't there. And everyone is mostly okay with that makes you maybe feel closer to people who are 

[00:26:53] there.

[00:26:54] Martin McCormack: Yeah, with the theater you have people that go into the movies and now the movies, you're there forever and with music, you're trapped. You're an amber when you record something. Unless you're Taylor Swift who re records all her good on her. But even she gets she's in amber to some degree.

[00:27:18] So there's something that's the mark of a poet then. You is that something poets say, yeah, this is the way we do it. You better, you have to be in the moment with us, otherwise It doesn't work. 

[00:27:35] Howard Friedman: I've definitely found that it draws me closer to the people who were there.

[00:27:39] I've kept a very good poetry community of the same poets and the same people showing up to these things over the years. It definitely works I definitely am trying to publish a book so that it can be both yeah. Does it drive you nuts though? If let's say you handed your poem when you do this show coming up and you handed it over to the other poet and you said, I want to I want to hear my poem read by you.

[00:28:14] Martin McCormack: And let's say is that. Is that something that's doable? Is that something that you'd be like, Oh God, I can't your delivery's all off. How does that work? Or is it my poem, my recitation, and if you're not there to hear me do it, you're lost. 

[00:28:36] Howard Friedman: I think you can learn a lot from other people reading your work.

[00:28:41] When I see it on the page, I know exactly how I'm gonna read it, and to my mind, which parts are the parts to slow down on, oh, this is the juicy part. But, you'll find if anyone else reads it in their voice, or even just listens to it, they'll be like, I love this part, I love this part, and it'll Nine times out of ten, not be the same parts that you thought were the real story.

[00:29:05] Everyone's got different memories and attachments that they bring in. I, for example, I had a friend I wrote one poem about a grandmother. And they, it's a good friend, they'd heard me read lots and lots of poems to them. They're like, my favorite one was that one about the grandmother. And it's because they were very close to their grandmother.

[00:29:24] Okay. 

[00:29:25] Martin McCormack: Yeah, that makes sense. So people will draw their own conclusions, their own interpretation. But yet it still sounds like to me, if Howard Freeman is not reading Howard Freeman's poem, you're missing out on something. 

[00:29:42] Howard Friedman: You're missing out on the Howard Freeman interpretation. For sure. 

[00:29:46] Martin McCormack: The Howard Friedman experience folks.

[00:29:49] Exactly. So cool. We have a time for one more poem, but and I'd like to finish this podcast with you reading it. But as always when we get into the talking about art and the philosophy of art, and I always think that there's somebody out there that is scared to death. of doing what you're doing.

[00:30:13] They're a poet. They have their poems around, but they're scared to death because you're getting up and you're exposing yourself, your heart to people who might not necessarily get it and You're in like every other part of art there's always that damn critic that's out there too.

[00:30:39] What's your advice? What's your advice to somebody that wants to do this as a career. Let's start there.

[00:30:49] Howard Friedman: Yeah. I a lot of people have asked me this and I always have the same advice 

[00:30:54] and I said it earlier in this podcast the enemy of any. Writing career is the inner critic, write first, edit later.

[00:31:07] So many people have told me, it's I write something, I start writing, and I tell myself it's not good. Or I tell myself that this isn't the right thing about writing about it. I'm not doing it right. And so many people struggle with that exact issue when it comes to writing. And I say, just keep going, I often find that if I write a paragraph, it doesn't get to what I really want to say until the fourth paragraph. Just keep writing, get to that middle that you're really trying to say and get all the blah, blah, blah out instead of looking at the blah, blah, blah and being like, oh, this is bad you have to I've been writing for years and years now, but when I first started, I would write one paragraph and then paragraph ten, be like, oh, this is what I'm saying so you can't Judge it by those opening stages, yeah that's very interesting. I, when you were describing that just right, I, in my mind, I was thinking of a person. I was visualizing like a young woman writing. And now, you're at this poetry reading. What's your advice for that person? Oh, 

[00:32:23] for the for the performance aspect? Yeah. Oh, I I've done a lot of acting in my day too.

[00:32:29] So I always say, project, speak to the back of the house speak to the back of the house and then everyone will be in that orbit. You're not necessarily, in my experience, saying it to one person, or directing it to one person. You just say it to the back of the house as loud as you can, and then people will be caught up in that. 

[00:32:50] And then just have fun with it. I completely understand that people get nervous around public performance, but it should be a fun thing. I've always been the opposite of most people. I know a lot of people get nervous on stage, I get nervous before stage, and when I'm up there, I'm just This is where I'm supposed to be, born for 

[00:33:09] the stage.

[00:33:10] Martin McCormack: Fantastic. And with poetry does a theater background is that a necessary thing to have? Do you feel like it obviously a plus, but. I, it 

[00:33:25] Howard Friedman: helps me a lot, but definitely not necessary. I love being on stage is probably where I feel most comfortable. But you just can't, public speaking is not easy for most people, and anything else, you just have to expose yourself to it and the more you do it, the easier it gets. 

[00:33:47] Martin McCormack: Where can people access your poetry right now, if they, do you have a website or something? The 

[00:33:53] Howard Friedman: ways to connect with me you can definitely go on allpoetry.

[00:33:57] com, I've got a couple of poems posted there and you can also message the person on there. or leave feedback on the poems, so that's a good way to get a hold of me. Yeah I've got a couple poems published at Pioneertown, which is a online journal that people can read. Yeah, but I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, and it's I'm looking for a publisher, so if somebody wants to Publish me and let me know.

[00:34:28] Martin McCormack: But I, but yeah, just we're all looking for that publisher. Where the hell is that publisher?

[00:34:35] Howard Friedman: The same guy, same 

[00:34:38] Martin McCormack: one. I've had a manuscript. I've four years now. It was but. I digress. Let's read this final poem and give us the title. 

[00:34:53] Howard Friedman: It's called, I am the Frankenstein of love. I am the Frankenstein of love.

[00:35:00] I confuse myself with my creator. I am the Frankenstein of love. The villagers shout mirrors at me. I am the Frankenstein of love. I take my time. I find the fire pretty. I take a bride. I have the name of my creator. I am the Frankenstein of love. You cannot kill what has been made of other people. You would have to kill each of them in the way they know how, in the way that they understand.

[00:35:34] You might as well love me. I don't understand your language. I like long walks on the beach. There are bolts in my neck. A happy thought is keeping me upright. I am the Frankenstein of love. I have the name of my creator. And the better I get at being alive, he has mine. I am the Frankenstein of love. I can never stop loving.

[00:36:04] For to stop loving will be stopping being alive. I am the Frankenstein of love. For love, we bear each other's names.

[00:36:16] Martin McCormack: I want to thank you, Howard Friedman, for being on Strung Out, and we'll have to have you back with another fresh batch of poems and talk more about this because we're just scratching the surface here, really, about poetry, and best of luck with your upcoming show, and you listeners, again you can find Howard Friedman through all the different places he's mentioned, and Probably the easiest is just Google the guy's name for God's sakes and he will be there And until next week everybody take care of yourselves and that's it.

[00:36:55] Bye. Bye