Strung Out Episode 197 THE PHILOSOPHY OF ART WITH DAVID ROCCO FACCHINI. PART TWO.

David Rocco Facchini is an artist's artist.  He's at once a visual artist, making amazing sculptures out of found objects, such as bits of old movie equipment, he's a storyteller, a stop motion movie maker whose most recent film was featured at the Cannes Film Festival, and also an adventurer of sorts.  He recently set out in a Sprinter Van to explore the psyche of America.  The result is a new film, USA2Z, which is in the final stages of production.   Facchini has a fun website with a lot of examples of his film and art and interviews.  Check out www.dellaroccostudios.com.

This episode continues to delve into the complexities regarding community.  As Facchini did his social experiment of word association, he became aware of how people percieve themselves.  That community, government, religion and other social gatherings are somewhat skewed in this era of sound bites, social media, talking points and anger.  People seem desperate to hold onto something as their very sense of self is under attack from variety of sources, all intent on making that self, theirs.  Tune in to a wonderful insight to the state our human condition--now.

Transcript

[00:00:00] ANNCR: Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer, and musician, Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty.

[00:00:16] Martin McCormack: Hey, glad to have you with us. And I've got. Uh, for a second part here, David Roccoficini, filmmaker, artist, uh, and whereas, uh, as I say, many different hats in the artist field, teacher, instructor, um, and, uh, one of the things I like about him, he's, uh, he's an artistic survivalist. And, uh, and so I want to welcome you back, David, for round two here, as we talk about the philosophy of art.

[00:00:46] On our last podcast, we went around a lot of different things and, um, and I want to kind of come back to, um, we were just kind of starting to get into that notion of, uh, the world is changing. Uh, the world is changing for the arts. And, uh, And not, not the change that at least in the music business, we're used to that, you know, it used to be LPs and then it went to CDs.

[00:01:12] And then I went to, you know, now downloads and now it's going back to CDs. And some people have not that stuff, but the, the, the business end of things in the sense that, uh, there are competing forces that are out there, I think in the world. And I want to see if you agree. It is the gatekeepers. At least in the United States of the artistic psyche of this country, the gatekeepers have the media outlets.

[00:01:45] They have the, uh, you know, movie theaters, they have all that stuff. And then you have the people outside the gates. They're kind of doing their own thing, and they're in the periphery, and that periphery can be a small town performing art centers, or the proliferation of house concerts and that sort of thing.

[00:02:07] And, um, It's a struggle, and I use it to illustrate a point of how poignant that struggle is some of the licensing companies in the past have gone out of their way to shut down small venues, because they don't pay into the system. And they're having, you know, let's say a 15 year old, you know, young girl playing a Joni Mitchell song.

[00:02:38] They want. That venue, you know, in, in Podunk, Iowa, pay money and they don't have that kind of money. So they're going to shut it down. They're going to shut it down. And so there's this gatekeeping process that's out there, uh, from, from making money, and this is what you're in right now, this, this atmosphere, but it seems to be changing, but as an artist, do you have to walk in both worlds?

[00:03:11] David Rocco Facchini: You know, it's a, I think it's a personal question to answer. When I first, uh, graduated, I started working at a company that did cereal commercials, you know, Honey Nut Cheerios, Lucky Charms, uh, Trix, uh, I resented the job. Because I was putting my artistry or my, even more so, my time towards something that was basically shoving sugar cereal down, you know, kids throats.

[00:03:46] It was, you know, these animated commercials are beautiful, but I'm like fixing the shading on my face. the trick's rabbit's eyeball to be so clean and clear and consistent that you can, that general mills can, you know, sell this product. And I was just like, there's, you know, sell what you want. That's fine.

[00:04:09] But I'm just talking about me and my, my person. And my time and I was just like, I can't do this. So I ended up leaving that job and I really didn't feel like I wanted to focus on the commercial machine of things, uh, that has hit and miss in my. I've taken jobs that have paid well that were not, I mean, basically what I decided at a certain point is I didn't really want to do commercial work and commercial work.

[00:04:42] You can make tons of money. And people would say, Oh, you should make money and you should make money. And especially as you know, your parents are worried about you and they want you to succeed. And that is the biggest challenge is like listening to yourself, especially while there's other voices going around, influential voices, finding out who you are.

[00:04:59] Um, yeah. I was able to figure out, you know, I started working at the University of Chicago's business school of all places, which, um, that was its own dynamic. But what I found out, what I found myself doing is I was investing in things that weren't paying me at all. I was, taking classes and performing comedy in Chicago.

[00:05:19] Uh, I was doing like projections for, for shows. I was, you know, working on my own films trying to get those off the ground because that's what meant something to me. And I realized going through that commercial process that it just wasn't for me. I couldn't, I couldn't spend my creative equity there. So I guess it's a personal question.

[00:05:44] I think, 

[00:05:45] Martin McCormack: uh, you know, with, with creativity in the commercial world, which there's amazing stuff, right? And that, that, that's kind of, I'm not talking specifically about that. What I'm talking about is the commercialization of the creative world and, and what I mean by that. And, and that's part of the, the argument I have against those, um, Uh, award shows is because like we said in the previous podcast, I mean, they're made, everything's made to make money, right?

[00:06:26] I mean, when you listen to the films that are released, what do you hear on the radio? You know, such and such film the first weekend out only grossed, uh, 20 million or whatever, like Napoleon. The film Napoleon, with Ridley Scott directing it. You know, people panned it and you know, but, you know, did Ridley Scott want it to be a commercial success?

[00:06:51] Or did he want it to be an artistic suc su su success? I know the people that are handling the money for them, that they want it to be a commercial success. Right. So there is that model. Mm-Hmm. . And that's, that is the big model that's out there, you know? 

[00:07:08] MUSIC: Yeah. 

[00:07:10] Martin McCormack: And. Is it, it, uh, it's a dangerous model I'd I would say in the sense that it's, uh, it's the kind of model that, uh, limits creativity.

[00:07:23] David Rocco Facchini: If it's the only model, yes. But I think as an educator, especially when I talk to my students, I kind of impart to them, um, understanding the difference between. The business of art and the creation of art and realizing that there is an overlap. So you can do something that's artistic that might not be received.

[00:07:44] But then there's also on the reverse and something that, you know, again, the serial commercial, a lot of artistry and a very meticulous detail. And these things are, you know, 30 seconds. That are flashed intense colors, beauty selling a product and they're out of your way. Uh, understanding that I think all things can exist at once.

[00:08:07] I, I think if you invest in 1 thing, just like anything else, if you invest too heavily in 1 dynamic, that's an imbalance understanding that there is a balance for things is the way that I look at that dynamic. You know, there's nothing wrong with there being a business of art. But art for the sake of business, isn't necessarily my jam.

[00:08:30] So it all depends on where, where do your efforts lie and what you're trying to sell as well. Like I couldn't get behind, you know, one of the best things I ever produced out of that first job that I had out of college, uh, was, uh, We're like McGruff crime dog commercials. I was like, at least that's fun.

[00:08:45] It's a social message. And that was a cool thing, but like, otherwise I wasn't into the message that was being sold otherwise. So I, I, I just got out of that. 

[00:08:54] Martin McCormack: Well, and I, I understand, you know, the idea of using your art to make money. I'm, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that because, um, you know, I, I played.

[00:09:04] Many, many weddings in which I had to sing wonderful tonight and, uh, you know, those, those kind of things, um, and, uh, that in and of itself, that's okay. Um, but what I'm, I'm talking about is the active. I wouldn't say it's an active squelching, but there definitely is a squelching of. competition, if you will, uh, this school of free independent artistry.

[00:09:39] Um, and you're mentioned in the last podcast, you mentioned this and just kind of touched on it again. Um, why do you think There isn't any business training for independent artists. 

[00:09:55] David Rocco Facchini: Well, one, my first reaction is that many art schools pride themselves on hiring working artists. And it's kind of a mixed bag of hiring a working artist because they either have, like if they're, if they're teaching at a school part time or full time, you know, Having that, making sure that they have a balance of being able to teach while also producing their art makes them not necessarily the high performing working artists that, you know, that people tend to compare themselves with or in which to aspire.

[00:10:31] Like I said, in the last podcast of Steven Spielberg or Walt Disney, people would say, oh, David, you could be the next X, Y, or Z and. I ended up coming to terms with it. I'll be the 1st me, but the other side of that is that you find a lot of people on the retired end of things who have already kind of built their resume who are teaching.

[00:10:49] So you're coming at an education from 2 different directions, but in both directions. It's like working for yourself is freelance. You've kind of figure out your own business and you're not really, that's not really a part of the curriculum. And on the back end, if you've done all this work and now you're teaching, you've also been a cog in a machine for a large part where you've done the role that you've done and you've performed that role and then you've come back.

[00:11:17] And one of the things that I had heard when advising, there was an advisor at, Uh, the academy who would just say, you know, for stop motion students, they're like, you know, what do I do? And then he's like, just get a job at like, uh, and when I was younger, when I was doing animation, they said, just get a job at Disney and it's like, the idea of you having to find another entity in which to base your existence was the model.

[00:11:39] I think it's an antiquated model and it's not a, it's not a very well vetted model. You're not necessarily finding innovators. Creating and then also teaching, although that's what we're trying to do, uh, myself and some other folks doing production based learning in that you're kind of showing the process of learning while teaching on a real project that will exist in the world that will go to festivals that might have some staying power.

[00:12:08] It's a tricky thing, but I think the short answer is artists don't necessarily know how to make money. And to be honest, it's like, I think a lot of just people just don't know how to make money unless you're working for someone else. You know, the idea of creating and innovating, I think it's like a 15, 85 percent ratio in humanity.

[00:12:28] You know, there's like this statistic that floats around. It's like 80 percent of the world. Is working because 20 of the percent of the world is creating, whether it's like the Steve jobs, or, you know, whoever innovators you want to, you want to invoke. I think that is very much true. It's like, how many people are doing for themselves and creating a new line of work or a new.

[00:12:53] Path trodden versus becoming what needs already exist. And all these are valid things. And not, I'm not at all taking away from doing something that's been done before and doing it while you're and you're doing your version of it. But the idea of creating business and understanding that and of how to make money as an artist.

[00:13:17] And then imparting that to students, it's just, I guess the short answer for artists is like, just get it and get it in a boutique, get it in an agency, get work for a film company, do internships. And there's some truth to all those things. You know, the, the, the biggest, the best formula for any success is where opportunity meets preparedness.

[00:13:40] And if you are, you know, one of the things I will find about my artist friends is they're overly prepared, but they are. Underly value of valuing themselves underly, they're undervaluing themselves. So even in the moment of this presentation, I've known people who can teach circles around other professionals if they were in the education realm, but they decided not to do it because they didn't know everything And they end up kind of taking their opportunities away from themselves There's a lot of variables of why Business isn't a part of an artist's career natural knowledge base, and I think all those things contribute to it.

[00:14:21] You know, you follow what is modeled for you until you figure out how to do it yourself. And you realize this person didn't necessarily know everything. So that's one of the sad things about academic advisors is because oftentimes they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. 

[00:14:35] Martin McCormack: True. I mean, that's, uh, you know, I remember, uh, at Loyola, the comedian Shelly Berman came to give a talk to our theater department.

[00:14:46] And, um, I came up to him afterwards and I said, Hey, how do you, how do you make it in this business? And he, he was irritated with me, you know, Uh, he's like, what do you, what do you mean? How do you make it in this business? You know, uh, you, you, you just get out there and you do it, you know, and at the time I, I was, uh, you know, I was of that middle class thing.

[00:15:14] Mind think, thinking that well, A to B to C to D equals, you know, your achievement. Uh, that's why schools like Loyola are successful for turning out dentists and doctors and lawyers, because there is that, uh, safety net of, um, uh, reliability. If I put three years in going to law school and I passed my grades, I'm going to become a lawyer.

[00:15:40] David Rocco Facchini: Right 

[00:15:41] Martin McCormack: now you become a filmmaker You don't have 

[00:15:46] David Rocco Facchini: that, you know, the worst advice I ever got was from my brother at 1 point, because I had been in Chicago for a while and I felt like I was hitting the ceiling of the things I wanted to do. And he's just like, you should get your masters. And I was just like, for what and he's like, you know, because if you get your masters, then it would expose you to more opportunities and you'd be able to teach at the collegiate level and everything.

[00:16:12] And. I just, and I realized that my brother and I think differently. My brother thinks A to B to C to D and that's fine. You know, that's his progression. He has his masters and that has served whatever endeavors that he had aspired. But for my purpose, it was like, I'm so glad I didn't get my master's and people said, you know, if, oh, you can fall back on teaching.

[00:16:36] I was running an animation department. I was a professor of animation in two different universe, uh, two different schools, Columbia and at the Academy of Art. And they look at your resume, they're not looking at this master's, you know, and if they do that and that's their, you know, they, they saw what I can do and they saw how I can do it.

[00:16:53] So. There's a certain point of like, you know, Shelly Berman was right in that, you know, you kind of do it. It's like, if you are really a creator, you can't not do it. So the thing is, keep doing what you do, see if it gets momentum and find your audience. You know, one of the great things I got to say, just as a side, it's like, I love that you went and play music for retirement communities.

[00:17:17] That was one of the most, I think that's such an amazing, wonderful thing that you're providing. For folks who, you know, talk about a forgotten community, we talk about community and contributing as an artist, you know, what that means to community and that you were doing that, you know, even that woman who gave you the sign with the golden roads that you had mentioned in the last episode.

[00:17:41] It's just like that. Those type of connections are really important. And I feel like. That kind of pay is better. You know, you, you found an angle, you found an audience that was, you know, talking, you know, you're respecting community, you are giving love back. It's just wonderful. I think that was amazing.

[00:18:02] Martin McCormack: Well, I always feel like, uh, with Switchback now that I'm going to be, uh, coming up on 40 years of working with Brian Fitzgerald. Wow. So, uh, that's great. It's kind of an odd, odd thing, but I always thought it would, you know, we always joked about having a bootcamp, uh, for aspiring. artists, um, you know, literally having them crossing streams with guitars over their head, you know, have a little humor in it.

[00:18:32] But, but there is, there's definitely a need for this. And, um, I want to take a little break right here. And we're going to come back with David Rocco Fettini because I've got a question right out of the gate when we're on the other side of this break. So you are with Strung Out. Glad to have you here. 

[00:18:54] ANNCR: Hey, want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors?

[00:18:58] Buy me a coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few taps, you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to martinmccormack. com and click on the words Support Martin. Let's help Martin keep it all capital.

[00:19:37] MUSIC: Since I let you get you, I fell

[00:19:45] in love with your smile. Yeah, I need you, tell you, I fell in love with your smile. Don't walk away, just let me stay. I fell in love with your smile. Give me your heart, we'll never part.

[00:20:21] Love with.

[00:20:50] You say, I fell in love with your smile. Give me your heart, heart. I fell in love with your smile. Can't get

[00:21:13] you, I can't get you. I fell in love with your smile. Yeah, I need you. I need to tell you. I fell in love with your smile Don't walk away Just hear me say I fell in love with your smile Give me your heart We'll never part Fell in love with your smile I fell in love with your smile I fell in love with your smile.

[00:22:13] Martin McCormack: Okay. Well, we are back with David and, um, we've been talking quite a bit about art in America. Generally, it's a survivalist world. Uh, you have to kind of come up with your own way of, uh, scripting your business. In order to survive. Likewise, we realize there's competition out there. There's, um, uh, an established, uh, uh, business model of the arts, various levels.

[00:22:51] Theater stage galleries, whatever that kind of, um, we won't get into the, the whole whether it's right or wrong, but it's there and most people don't to that point in the art world. So, my question to you is, are you a success? And then how do you define yourself as a success when I was in 

[00:23:14] David Rocco Facchini: 7th grade? I had a teacher.

[00:23:17] I'm trying to remember her name. So, hopefully it'll come to me, but she asked the class. What is success? And everyone's like. Big house, nice cars, a lot of money, good wardrobe, being able to take vacations. And she's just like, she goes, that's success. She, and then she kind of corrected us. Cause we were still of that age.

[00:23:44] She's like, she's like, success is what makes you happy. And she, she was like a salty, I wish I could remember her name. She was such, she was such like a salty teacher. She was, She would just cut to the quick and just kind of just really lay it out as it was. And that was the first time success had been modeled for me differently.

[00:24:08] I had always felt it, but the idea, you know, we only follow what is modeled for us. And then the idea of the American dream, you know, especially with our ancestors, if you have ancestors who've come to this country before you and the streets are paved with gold and opportunity exists in America. The idea of success has always been monetary and riches and being able to get to this point.

[00:24:30] If you started the as a male clerk in a company, you can run the company. You know, if you stuck with it, I don't know if that really exists anymore. Honestly, to be honest, the better you do a job, the more you're going to stay in that job, because people won't promote you out of a job you do too well. So that's a side, but the idea of what success is like success is what brings you joy and what brings me joy.

[00:24:54] Is connecting with people telling stories that are innovative that can bring a question to our existing model that might have its flaws and just maybe recontextualize and say, have you ever thought of this? And I do have those perspectives in my story, especially in USA to Z. Um, I kind of really challenged the idea of.

[00:25:19] Survival and what success is and stories we tell ourselves versus a greater story that affects the community and how we reconcile the 2. so the idea of success for me is community. It is, um. It is modeling, uh, community and, and just, I guess I, again, I've all I've only always wanted enough money to be able to be comfortable and do what I want to do.

[00:25:49] And that is 1 thing I still think maybe, you know, I'm a white male privileged person, but I still believe that can be capable in this country. But again, that's speaking, I was lucky enough to be, you know, grow up in a middle class environment. My skin gives me a lot of privilege that I, that isn't afforded to other people.

[00:26:10] So, um, I do take some things for granted still, because I'm unaware of how much I have been given. But, uh, I think about people who have to really work hard and have social disadvantages because of what we've built in this country and that's really kind of. That's troubling and like, trying to like, advocate for those groups as well.

[00:26:36] So they can have success in their definition is something that I feel is important. I feel, I feel there's a reckoning happening there. So I really feel like success is like, being true for me, being true to your community and like, really, you know, You know, the rising tide lifts all boats 

[00:26:54] Martin McCormack: for the established artistic industry.

[00:26:59] There is a standard of success, right? 

[00:27:04] David Rocco Facchini: I don't know. Like, what would you mean? 

[00:27:06] Martin McCormack: Well, you, you have your award systems, you have. Whether the thing they put out is on the New York Times bestseller list or not, those 

[00:27:19] David Rocco Facchini: things exist also for people who aren't, you know, necessarily creatively minded people, they, it's like, sometimes something's not going to fall at the feet of somebody until it has, you know, Been vetted and there's a vetting process.

[00:27:34] So I wouldn't necessarily undermine all of these dynamics that exist because you have to speak the language of basics. Sometimes, you know, the reason that red stop signs exist is because red is the, the color wavelength that can be seen from the greatest distance. So, stop signs across the world are able to speak.

[00:27:57] To even read for people who are colorblind red can still be seen for some for people. So the idea of this color existing for the masses for what I will say, and, you know, and not not in a disparaging way, but the weakest link among us, we need to be able to, you know, decimate information, you know, kind of say, this is what.

[00:28:20] You know, this is a good book because it's gone through this vetting process of people who are invested to this point. So it is a part of a learning process for people who aren't necessarily invested in music or in film. It's like a film comes across their lap that they wouldn't have normally seen, but the people said, it's so great.

[00:28:35] And then I end up watching it. Then all of a sudden, they're investing in something that wouldn't have, you know, like I said, so. So I guess, I mean, I hear what you're saying. It can be a, you know, glad handing, let's slap each other on the back and give each other awards. There's definitely can be that. But I also think that there is some validity to it.

[00:28:55] Martin McCormack: So, uh, just to play devil's advocate, if USA to Z came out and you found a garage and you showed it on the screen in the garage. To 5 people, and that was all the promotional budget you had. And it made you happy. The next day you would wake up and say, I'm a success. My 

[00:29:22] David Rocco Facchini: success is finishing the film.

[00:29:24] Finishing the film. It's not even projecting the film. You know, it's like, I want to get it done. Because it's like for me that I was able to finish it and that I could say. You know, the projects that I've done aren't necessarily the best. It's like, sometimes it's like, that I could live with it is, you know, can you live with this is one of the things that I've come to terms with, you know, sometimes that's just where it is.

[00:29:49] But I think, like, I would love it to be received. Of course. But. 

[00:29:54] Martin McCormack: Yeah, of 

[00:29:55] David Rocco Facchini: course, 

[00:29:56] Martin McCormack: of course 

[00:29:56] David Rocco Facchini: you do. 

[00:29:57] Martin McCormack: And of course, I, you know, I, I would want that for you. I, I want you to, to succeed in the way that, you know, will affect people in the broadest possible terms. Um, I'll be, I'll be sure to send you my Kickstarter then.

[00:30:11] Yeah. Well, there you go. I mean, this is, this is what we're touching upon when we, when we dive into the idea of the independent artist is you have to. Think about Kickstarter. You have to think of setting up a roadmap of some degree of, of how you want to live your life. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you, you have to stick with that roadmap.

[00:30:39] If you made that roadmap at 20, by the time you're getting to 50, you know, you're going to, you're going to alter it a little bit, but especially for the independent artist, once you, you know, once you cross into the business is what I'm saying, you know, the for profit artistic business, you know, what you have to do.

[00:30:57] I have to audition to get onto Broadway. I better be good at dancing and singing and knowing my lines. And if I am, chances are I'm going to move along the line. But, you know, whether, whether you're in it or not. I mean, if you're not in it now, now. You don't have that structure. You have to be the structure.

[00:31:20] That's the hard part about it. 

[00:31:22] David Rocco Facchini: Yeah, I guess, you know, that I have done the things that the structure in which the structure exists. I've produced live comedy. I've put, you know, in the Bay Area. I helped I was a producer of an interactive narrative that took place over the course of two days, kind of like, based off of the Michael Douglas film, The Game, where your actors are strategically placed throughout the Bay Area to move forward a narrative.

[00:31:48] I've been a part of creative processes that I've done, either participated in or done from the ground up, that knows that I can create something that will get eyes, that will get butts in seats, uh, that will create a narrative. You know, entertainment, one of the things in economic turmoil, the biggest moneymaker is the arts.

[00:32:08] It is venues, you know, historically, if you look at when people are down and they're not feeling good about stuff, they're, they're watching, they're going, they're doing, they're going to comedy, they're going to the movies. Outside, I mean, now that streaming exists, it's a different dynamic, but I could do, I could put together a comedy show.

[00:32:28] I feel like I can make that happen. And I have several ideas in which to make that happen. That haven't necessarily been an A to B to C dynamic for me, but I've learned them and I impart them and I, I, I have several ideas that I'm still going to produce after USA to Z that I'm, you know, I feel like. will be my next projects that I will be able to survive from.

[00:32:51] Martin McCormack: Well, let's take a little break right here. And, and when we come back, we're going to kind of wrap up things along this, uh, this talk on philosophy of art, uh, with David Rocco Ficini. And, uh, you are, of course, I'm strung out with us, so we'll be back right after this. Marty fine art fans. We have a painting for you.

[00:33:16] That is the latest in Martin's plain air art series. This was a painting he did. While on tour with the Switchback Tropical Mystery Tour to Tulum, Mexico, it is the ancient Mayan temple of the B God. Rendered with beautiful colors, this painting can now be a print for you to enjoy. With a mug, a t shirt, or hanging on your wall.

[00:33:48] It is for sale at martinmccormack. com Just follow the prompts and order your merchandise today.

[00:34:23] MUSIC: You do try. You do try. Just whisper to keep me. Hanging on. Hanging on. Hanging on.

[00:34:59] Baby, only fools turn their back on love. Only fools. Just a kiss with passion would show me you still care. You still care. You still care. Just the look of desire Would make me feel alive Feel alive Feel alive Baby only fools Turn their back on love Only fools Baby only fools

[00:37:20] Martin McCormack: All right. And here we are. We are now, uh, in the last part and. Kind of come back full circle, you brought up community. And I think the answer to the industrialized artistic world is the creation of community, whether it's a small community as in a town, or if it's an artistic community online or whatever, that's.

[00:37:52] For the artists and independent artists that networking on that level is really important to foster that sense of security and affirmation to some degree. One thing I've noticed, and maybe I don't know if this is just a reaction to coming out of the pandemic but it seems like a lot of these theaters in these small towns are kind of going into a revival, that there's more people that are interested in.

[00:38:22] Live interaction and and whether it be, you know, um, watching a film together or whatever, but that shared experience again that community part of it I think is so important. And how, if you don't have that community. There's a community out there. Did you have to create your community or did you tap into something that existed or did you, you know, a little bit of both or what, 

[00:38:57] David Rocco Facchini: um, I think you tap into communities.

[00:39:02] And then what I love doing is cross pollinating communities. You know, when I first started in film, the film community was big. Especially, you know, when I was in college, I was like learning about it and then I happened upon stop motion and I realized this is such a unique specialized community and I, I started realizing that.

[00:39:30] It was more that what I liked the people I related to their hands on artists fabricators, but they were also visual storytellers and stop motion uses every art form that exists and combines it into 1 medium. So that spoke to me because I am. I am hands on. I like. Sometimes working graphically. I sometimes like working visually.

[00:39:53] Sometimes I need to just get my hands dirty, um, and create. So tapping into different communities, you know, when I kind of hit a ceiling in Chicago for stop motion. So I was like, what else can I do? So I got into sets and props for a little bit, and then I started getting into comedy. So tapping into that community and figuring that out and then figuring out, Oh, these comedic voices can be voices in animation.

[00:40:18] Or seeing how you act on a stage, like you figure out, you kind of like, you know, like, if you ever got a recipe book from a loved one down the generations, the idea of the recipe being there versus doing it to taste, you know, sometimes there aren't measurements, take a handful of this. So, when you find your community, the parts of the community to speak to, you kind of cobble together what might be presenting down the road.

[00:40:43] These are all tools. in your toolbox further down the road so I can put myself in different communities and become like a set designer, you know, become a costume fabricator, become an animator, become a voice actor. These are different communities in which you kind of find these values. So I think, You find your communities, but then you kind of create, you know, your own community.

[00:41:08] One of the things people say to me, you know, jack of all trades, but a master of none. And I always find it interesting because the there's that that quote continues. And I think the quote continues to say, but much better than a master of 1. and I like having a lot of, you know, what I call, like, my creative switch, aren't Swiss army knife.

[00:41:31] You know, you have this tool and you put in your pocket and eventually you refine it to this thing where you could pull out something at the ready. And depending on the community that you are part of in the community that you are going to be a part of, you have this tool available for you. So I, I think what you're asking about, do you find your communities or you create it?

[00:41:48] The answer is yes. 

[00:41:50] Martin McCormack: Yeah. And, and the validation part. That we touched on comes from that. I think, and, uh, Bill Maher, uh, he had a couple of weeks ago when I think it was the Grammys or whatever, but he came up with this, uh, thing, the cojones and, uh, and he, he presented, you know, just. Uh, you know, on his real time thing, you know, a pair of testicles and he gave it, gave it out to people that made a difference in the world, according to his estimation.

[00:42:27] MUSIC: And 

[00:42:27] Martin McCormack: I think, um, he's onto something. I was like, well, there you go. This is what's, this is what is needed. My argument is I think the independent artist world is much more leaning toward the cojones, because the struggle that's involved, usually, of being an independent artist is, is tremendous. As opposed to, you know, once somebody gets into, uh, a certain, not to denigrate it either, but once you get into the competitive commercial world, you are in a thing, you have an agent, you have a thing, you have a 

[00:43:05] MUSIC: ba ba ba ba ba ba 

[00:43:07] Martin McCormack: ba, you know, but you're going solo.

[00:43:10] You know, you're flying. So you've got the, you're, you're crossing the Atlantic and you're the one and the controls. Plus you built the airplane. Um, you know, uh, and that's, and that's the beauty, I think, of being an independent artists. And, and so, you know, yeah, how are you a success then, uh, you're a success by creating your community, right?

[00:43:37] Creating parameters for yourself to abide by some sort of roadmap and then getting out there and creating according to those parameters and reminding yourself what those parameters are. Hence, like in the last, uh, segment, the, the homeless shoeless guy on the Brooklyn bridge, you know, when you were having, uh, the, the panic attack, uh, um, That's, that's pretty much the essence of what it means to really be an independent artist, isn't it?

[00:44:07] Yeah, you 

[00:44:08] David Rocco Facchini: know,

[00:44:12] I, my favorite part, you know, I am an independent artist and sometimes that is a lonely endeavor, but having people in which to collaborate is kind of the way I've found my family. And even as a kid, I buddied up to my first, like one of my first friends creatively, like Jay, who, you know, He, when I was in first grade, he had a nice set of markers.

[00:44:38] So I was like, Ooh, those are nice markers. So I went over and I became friends with him and we were creative for a while. And then he eventually kind of went off into medicine. I had another friend that we would make little movies in his basement. He ended up becoming a police officer. But it was like, I've always been attracted to people who can create and who have that mindset because it means so much to me.

[00:44:58] So, um, you know, the, the interesting thing about, you know, independent artists is even as an independent, you try to find a community of two. And even some of my best friends that I can call family and brothers and sisters in my life. They are people I've met through my creativity. Or their creativity and that we speak that same language.

[00:45:20] Um, so yeah, I mean, finding that success is like, if that really ignites a fire in you, that creativity, I don't understand why you would want to douse it, because the last thing I could imagine is if I douse that, I would live with such regret. And that's something that I don't, in my life, I don't want there to be a sentiment unsaid.

[00:45:47] You know, love that is not conveyed effort that has not been taken. You know, I know that in my life and I have, I'm at odds in in my family life. I have been in odds and friend life and even during covid and as I traveled across the country, and I met up with people that I hadn't seen in a long time. You included.

[00:46:07] I mean, when I saw you when I was in Chicago recently, I mean, that was the 1st time I had seen you in a very long time. Probably since before I lived in Chicago, which was in like 2016. Um, reconnecting with folks because it's like, these are people, it's like, they mean something to me. I'm making the effort.

[00:46:23] And if it were in, you know, in some of those efforts, it didn't come to, you know, fruition and others it did, but I'm not going to live with regret of not trying. So the idea of just being able to be true to yourself, understanding what success means to you. And for me, that's community and expressing the love that I feel for other people.

[00:46:40] And You know, also challenging, you know, those people and challenging myself to invest greater than ourselves. 

[00:46:48] Martin McCormack: Well, we're going to leave it at that because I think that's well said. And, uh, you, you summarized, uh, both of our, our, uh, episodes, uh, really nicely. How can people get in touch with you and hire you as their personal life manager?

[00:47:05] All right. What's your, what's your 

[00:47:06] David Rocco Facchini: website? Um, you can go to my website, which is www. Do we still say the W's? Triple W. Thanks 

[00:47:15] Martin McCormack: I do, I'm, but I'm 60 years old. 

[00:47:18] David Rocco Facchini: Uh, my website's called Della Rocco Studios and my mom's name is Della. My dad's name is Rocco. So it's D E L L A R O C C O and studios is plural. So Della Rocco studios.

[00:47:32] com. And I also do a stop motion stuff. So if you ever check out something called Mo Stop Mo M O S T O P M O dot com. We have a festival where you do productions and. Get in touch with me either of those ways. 

[00:47:48] Martin McCormack: Awesome. Well, I want to thank you, uh, David, and, uh, this is, uh, not going to be our last time.

[00:47:53] We're going to, we're going to do more of this, uh, talking. Um, 

[00:47:57] David Rocco Facchini: and thank you for having me. It's so nice to talk to you. I mean, I know we don't get a lot of chance to catch up, but it's really nice to see your face and have these discussions. 

[00:48:06] Martin McCormack: You're part of my community. And so that's, that's the, you know, you, you, you validated, you validated me.

[00:48:12] And so that's, you know, that's a good thing. And I, I hope I validated you. And I hope people who are, are in the field and are, are struggling trying to figure out, you know, why do I feel like I'm, Drift at sea, you know that there's a couple other people floundering out there with them. Um, 

[00:48:32] David Rocco Facchini: yeah, 

[00:48:33] Martin McCormack: just, uh, just keep when we do another podcast.

[00:48:36] One thing I would like to talk to you about and, uh, and we'll save it for another time is the idea of cultivating an audience. And, uh, that'll be a good topic because as an independent artist, that's the other challenge that you have to do. So you have to create not only your artistic community, but you have to create that community of artists, appreciate of people and, um, and you kind of touched on a little bit with the crowdfunding and all that sort of thing, but it's so much more than that.

[00:49:09] And, uh, for everybody that's watching this or listening to this, Thank you as always, and we'll be back again with more Strung Out in the future. Bye bye. 

[00:49:21] ANNCR: Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit martinmccormack. com. While there, sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung 

[00:49:33] MUSIC: Out.

[00:49:48] Givin out joys, givin out sta