Strung Out Episode 209: THE PHILOSOPHY OF ART WITH JONAS FRIDDLE

Singer-Songwriter Jonas Friddle is also a teacher at the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago.   Teaching not only banjo, but songwriting, Friddle discusses his technique for writing his songs.   He also talks about the Chicago musical scene and his own ways of adjusting and surviving in today's frenetic musical business world.   His advice for aspiring musicians is well worth listening to.  An all-around grounded human being, Friddle is a pleasure to hear both playing his music and discussing his philosophy of art. 
His website is www.jonasfriddle.com.

Friddle was raised in the mountains of North Carolina and learned to play guitar on a yard sale Harmony six string. He was already writing songs by the time he got to Kentucky at age eighteen. There, the bluegrass pickin’ and old-time dances turned him on to the power and joy of traditional folk music.  He added a mandolin, fiddle and banjo to his arsenal and got a job slapping bass with the college bluegrass band. After serving his time in higher education, he spent a year traveling around the world playing music in pubs and living rooms. In 2007 Jonas landed in Chicago, started the Barehand Jugband, the Sleepy Lou Old-Time duo and began teaching at the Old Town School of Folk Music. Since then he has released multiple studio albums under his own name and with the folk supergroup “The Majority.” During that time his music has won multiple awards and been featured online at American Songwriter, Huffington Post and Paste.  

Recent years have brought Friddle’s focus back to songwriting and with the release of his latest album “The Last Place to Go” he puts out his best songs yet. A collection of sung stories backed by the sound of drums, fiddle, dobro, electric guitar, bass, organ and trumpet.  

Transcript

[00:00:00] Now here's Marty. Welcome to Strung Out and I am back here with Jonas Fridl. We are doing another podcast featuring his music and talking a little bit about singing, songwriting and, uh, and just, uh, Jonas, uh, has the extra talent. added benefit of being a teacher himself and, uh, has taught, you're teaching at schools, uh, some jug band and Yeah, yeah.

[00:00:29] I love the jug band blues music. Um, I got into that, uh, pretty early on in Chicago when my first, my first Chicago band was a jug band. I had seen, uh, um, a devil in a wood pile down at the hideout when I first moved to town and just dug it and then Had got a band go on the bare hand jug band and it was some, you know, maybe two years later We were doing that spot at the hideout in the front room there.

[00:00:56] Oh fantastic. Yeah, that's great. I teach that stuff now Through the old town school. I go out to some of the Public schools around the, around the city and work with kids on, you know, science of sound and then also some of the Socioeconomics of, you know, why people in that time were playing the instruments that they did and the kind of music they were making.

[00:01:20] Do you think, uh, Before I get you playing right away, uh, Do you think, uh, let's, I want to come to that idea, the socioeconomics influencing music. That's a, that's a pretty heavy topic, uh, And I'm just curious in today's, uh, world, do you feel like music, folk music, is, uh, uh, striking a chord with anybody?

[00:01:45] With the social economics? We're in the inflationary times. There's hard times for some folks. Yeah, yeah. Or do you think I'm, you know, maybe, uh, being too crazy about it? No, I think you're probably, you're probably right. I mean, the economics always influences. The kind of music that's around for the, for the, the, you know, the jug band era was for some folks at some certain spots of it, it was, you know, influenced by access to instruments, either, you know, places in their area to get them or, you know, finances more like the people making it didn't have the resources to go buy a trumpet.

[00:02:26] So maybe they would play the comb and try and simulate some of it. The sounds out of, out of that. And then of course, other junk bands were just, they enjoyed the sound of the hearing of the people when we're emulating, you know, that sound, uh, later on in for now. Yeah. That's a really interesting question.

[00:02:44] I, the access to the access to making music on your own computers is so. Easy, you know, and recording your own stuff. I mean, we see so much music released every day because now that whole, that whole, I would think it's George Martin said, you know, people could make a Beatles record now in their bathtub.

[00:03:06] You know, it's, there's, there's a lot of truth. Uh, to what, what he said, because, uh, yes, we're, we're in an era where everybody can, uh, put together, uh, an album. I guess the question is, is, uh, you have to cut through a lot of noise if you're gonna find the gems that are out there, maybe. Is that it? I think so.

[00:03:26] I, I mean When we talk about Chicago and maybe local venues having a, like a resurgence of some sort, I think, I honestly think the future of music is probably hyper local. I mean, U Tour, I don't do, I don't live that life, but my understanding is that, um, I mean, Prices have gone up and everything, but artists pay certainly hasn't.

[00:03:49] No. Right. It's, uh, it's, it's still a difficult, uh, way to make a living as far as being a, uh, a touring musician or even a, uh, uh, an area musician playing around. However, I I've noticed since the pandemic, I've noticed a resurgence in smaller venues. And I, I think people are beginning to get, uh, uh, um, In touch with that, that feeling, like you said, hyper local.

[00:04:17] Yeah, I think just going, going, going to, going to your local spot and like trusting that spot to have something good. Not needing to, like, it doesn't have to be your most favorite band on the radio at the time to, to bother to go watch it. You can go watch the local country band and go two step it, you know.

[00:04:33] Well, maybe, maybe the, the thing that's going on is that we're so oversaturated now with, uh, Spotify and, and overwhelmed that, It's going to make sense that you're going to find something that resonates with you on a local level, or traveling, at least something that's authentic. Um, you know, I, I think gigging, uh, touring musicians, uh, you'll always have some, uh, that, uh, that's not going away.

[00:05:02] I, I think though, it's, it's much more difficult because, uh, across the board, there isn't a lot of money being, you know, even one of the things that came out of the pandemic was the idea of like, you know, well, it's just a free will offering of whatever you think, you know, uh, Jonas, uh, We're not gonna charge a cover.

[00:05:25] We're gonna charge a suggested cover, you know. And, uh, you know, sometimes that doesn't work. But, pull up an instrument. Let's, uh, let's have, uh, people listen to one of your songs. Do you have anything that you can, you know, give us? Yeah, sure, always. Great. Um, Let's see I might switch up the feel of it since we're talking about what's it talking about junk band music perfect So far I've played a few teams that last one was That's not been recorded yet.

[00:05:56] That'll be coming pretty soon. Um, and then the two before that were on The Last Place to Go, which has got, uh, Gerald Dowd's drumming on it, Steve Doyle's playing guitar, and Jacobson, Andrew Wilkins, uh, all going to be recorded with John Abbey, like Dad Records. Yeah. Good Chicago kind of, uh, you know, uh, players there and, uh, and, uh, Again, Gerald Dowd, talk about somebody that has, uh, some of the bluegrass sensibilities just from his experience with special consensus.

[00:06:28] And, uh, yeah, he's a, he can do just about anything, you know, he is his songwriter. I mean, he's drumming hard for everybody and then you give him a guitar and put him and he's, his songwriting is so good. He's, yeah. Really? Yeah, really something. And those of you that are watching this podcast and you haven't watched Jonas's other podcast on Strong Out, I.

[00:06:50] Highly recommend you go and you check out these tunes, especially that last one about, uh, uh, flying down to Cuba without a JFK, uh, and just a great little look at, uh, at the cold, post Cold War era in some ways, um, but just, uh, You're touching on a lot of different things, but give us a, give us a tune. And so this, this will be off of, uh, so during the pandemic, uh, I was, I turned back to jug band music because it's kind of a, it's a, it's got a lot of happiness in it.

[00:07:20] And it was a good time to kind of balance out the, the, the feelings of the time. And so I wrote a whole record called jug band, happy hour of original material. That was. loosely inspired by my my days in the jug band and this is uh So this is a song about one of my favorite things to do jugband music has a lot of songs about food So this is this is a song about a barbecue

[00:07:52] He said the smoker 225 If you soft the pork shoulder overnight, you rub in the cayenne, the mustard and the pepper. Put out your fold chase. Sit there forever. Make is one thing to know how to do. Make the full pork barbecue better. Sit in the smoke or watch the world go up in plain.

[00:08:19] And some people going to give up the ghosts. Some visualize what they want the most. Buy some seed. Jesus send a piece of toast. How many times get hard? I ain't no chicken. Don't know his daddy playing kickball with his own head. I ice tea, babe. I'm Wonder Bread. I keep it cool in my backyard because there's one thing I know how to do.

[00:08:44] I make a pulled pork barbecue and I sit in the smoke. I watch the world go up in flames, up in flames. You keep it low, real low. You may get slow, so slow.

[00:09:31] Everybody wants to be the boss. Everybody got their special sauce. You got somewhere to be, baby, that's your law. All I want is my time, All I want is my time, Mine, mine, mine, All I want is my time, Mine, mine, mine, All I want is my time, It's mine, mine, mine, All I want is my time, Yeah, there's one thing I'm gonna do with it, Make a full board barbecue with it sittin to smoke, Watch the world go up in flames.

[00:10:03] Up in flames, up in flames, up in flames, up in flames. Beautiful, beautiful. Thank you. Let's talk about this Gibson here. Uh. Yeah. How old is this guy? 1935. Beautiful. Where did you, uh, procure this? I got that at the Chicago Music Exchange. Oh, really? Okay. I had my eye out for, I wanted, I wanted one of these, L.

[00:10:39] O. L. O. s, Um, from that era, for a while, and just kind of kept my eye out, and not rush into anything. Yeah. They, um, they, they, uh, had this one come across, and they were, they were running a whole Gibson kind of thing for the weekend, and I just ran right down, and Snagged it. Yeah, good on you. Felt pretty good.

[00:11:02] It's, uh, one of the things about Gibson's from that era, I think, is, uh, the neck itself is, it's just made for, uh, Yeah, big ol chunky necks, like half a baseball bat, which I really like. And it's one of the things I like about that Chuck Lee banjo, too. A lot of banjos have a really thin line kind of thing going, and he makes a nice chunky neck on there.

[00:11:26] I like feeling like I'm holding on to something. I've seen banjos, uh, there was a guy down in Tennessee that would actually take a guitar. Uh, uh, Nick. Oh. And put it on a banjo. Yeah. Which was really, really cool. And I was a six. It's like a six string. You play it play like the get Joe kind of thing. Well, or you still finger pick it.

[00:11:46] You could finger pick it, but you could also play it like a six string. Yeah. And it was just kind of a, you know, and I, I was like, well, here's a hybrid that you don't see every day. Something to think about, but. I am jealous because, uh, that's, uh, I would love to get, uh, uh, a Gibson, uh, from that era because it's just the tone itself.

[00:12:07] It's a really distinct sound, um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, they come with their, their drawbacks, you know, there's a lot of taking care of them. You gotta do, you gotta go get them, get them mixtured up in cracks or splits open and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, I wanted it for, um, I knew when I made The Last Place To Go, there's a couple of things.

[00:12:28] I wanted to do it to tape. I wanted to do the record straight to, straight to reel to reel. And I wanted, and I wanted this particular guitar sound, so. Really happy that I managed to get those pieces together. Now, do you have a pickup built into it or no? I've installed a pickup. Okay. Honestly, I've gone through a couple because one of the things I didn't know, which now, you know, speaking of like vintage guitar owning, the bridge plates on these are really small on the inside.

[00:12:56] And so transducer pickups are almost impossible to use. And I don't want to use a sound hole pickup because the top is already pretty thin. And I don't want to risk putting something on there. So the amplification is a bit of a So how did you, uh, how did you resolve that? We're getting a little into the technical here, but this is, this is the geekiness.

[00:13:17] Well, this is what's on my mind all the time. Yeah. It's on my mind. Yeah, the K, I had a K and K. It was doing pretty well, but it felt a little thin to me and Um, you know, I, I trust the guys down at Fretworks, they do a great job and, uh, Nice. You know, he, he, he mentioned, well, you know, it's small enough that the pickups are still kind of hanging a little off the bridge pipe and that's full contact and, Okay.

[00:13:38] Currently I'm trying one that's on the actual top. Uh huh. And it's pretty good, it's really low output because it's not on the strings, you could crank the preamp up pretty high. And, uh, and I love the, I love the wear on it. Did you, uh, are you contributing that or is that your predecessor? Yeah, predecessor.

[00:13:56] And you can tell it's been, it's been finished over the top of it. So once those scratches were put in, somebody else went in and tried to kind of shore up some of the damage. You know, I love, I mean, I love a beat up guitar and switchback. We're kind of known for being merciless on it. So, uh, Brian just, Gerald's gone through, I think, uh, Well, two or three guitars.

[00:14:18] In fact, he's, I have a Yamaha down in the basement that he was starting to dig a hole through and I was like, you know, dude, you better get your own guitar, you know, let's, um, uh, before we take a break, uh, uh, Let's have you play another piece and then we'll, we'll have a long stretch talking about songwriting and everything like that.

[00:14:38] So, you got something, uh, do you want to give us anything on the claw hammer? Yeah, for sure. I can do that. Beautiful. Oh! That's okay. I don't want to knock over your artwork, man. So, you'd just like me to come in? You know, that thing, it's, I, I should, all I want for Christmas is a better easel. Um. Yeah. That thing falls over on its own.

[00:15:00] Alright, and this, uh, this, uh, Luthier, this, uh, guy down in Texas, I love the lone star on the top of the banjo. Yeah, it's a beautiful look. Yeah, that's the, you nailed it too. This model's the lone star. And then I have, uh, one of his fretless ones that's called, uh, the Deep Hollow. And I'm a big fan of those banjos.

[00:15:27] And for, uh, people that are, uh, singer songwriters that are tuning in here, um, Uh, when you're tuning, uh, do you like these little electric tuners? Or do you find, uh, you know, that this, this, uh, That's the way to go, or do they fly off while you're performing? You know, that's interesting. I do, I've used some of the low profile ones that don't really come off.

[00:15:50] Uh, like the micro tuners. Those, those I like because of that, I don't have to take them on and off and they stay. But, uh, their displays are pretty The ones that I've had, the displays aren't very bright, and they can be. Right. This, uh, what I got, what is this? It's the Polytune, I think it's the TC. TC Electronics makes them.

[00:16:10] The display is so bright, and they're really accurate. And that's, at the end of the day, you're like, that's the That's really what you need. And if you're doing uh, open air, outdoor shows, I mean In the sun. Oh boy. Yeah, really hard to see. I, you know, those Boss tuners, uh, that's the problem with those is that you stomp on them, you're like, what happened?

[00:16:28] Yeah, you can't even, yeah, you can't even see it. You know, you just gotta tune them by, uh, uh, just by feel, really. Yeah. But Alright, well let's, uh, give us a good tune here. What do you got? Uh, this is a tune I wrote a long time ago. This is called, uh, Belle de Louisville. I searched the river from the top of the hill

[00:17:14] C.

[00:17:31] Well the wind and rain in Chicago Know the climate don't suit my clothes Feeds my fingers and my blood runs cold Can't even pick my old banjo And all my rivers they run back south Maybe in the crib now, but I'm not sure now. So I bought the coat and I bought the shoes. Followed that girl that I could not lose Promised my love and my life She would only be my wife She caused me to weep and to moan She caused me to leave my home And all my papers in my back sack Baby, in the cradle and I'll float you up Um, Uh, Um, Um, Um, Uh, Uh,

[00:19:06] And sometimes I stare at Lake Michigan Dreamin I'm back home again There on the banks of the Ohio River Listen to that old steamboat roll And all my rivers they run back south Baby in the cradle now flush your mouth All my rivers they run back south Baby in the cradle now flush your mouth Great.

[00:19:37] You're listening to Jones Frittle and we are talking about, uh, the philosophy of art. We'll be back after just a brief break. Don't go away. Hey, want to show your support of Martin's artist endeavors? Buy Me a Coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few taps, you can make a payment of any amount, and no account is needed.

[00:20:04] You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to martinmcormack. com and click on the words Support Martin. Let's help Martin keep it all capital.

[00:20:21] And we're back! It's amazing how that works. We'll do it with a little more aplomb. Hey, we're back and, um, I, uh, I want to talk about your songwriting and I thought we could make a, uh, delve into it. You, uh, How do you go about it for a person that is trying to get into songwriting for the first time? Like, that song sounds to me like an old fashioned kind of tune.

[00:20:48] Mm-Hmm. . Um, and has that kind of pitch, you know, that role to it. Yeah. You know? And, uh, what comes first for you, melody words? Are you one of these people? Uh, how do you, you know. Tell the listener just a little bit about how you go about creating. Yeah, the, um, for a long time I had called myself a lyric first writer.

[00:21:18] I know some people, you know, people kind of identify maybe as a melody first or, you know, music first or lyric first writer. Um, and so that's still kind of the place where I set myself though, because I recognize that about myself, you know, I try to balance it out. I try to spend some time. Coming up with the music first and applying lyrics second, just to make sure there's like some variety to the, my output, you know, so I don't fall into, after having done this write written songs for 20 years or so, try not to fall into the same musical patterns all the time because the lyrics, you know, kind of come out phrased the same.

[00:21:55] Um, but yeah, I, I, I, I, I write every day. Um, I. I have a process that I've just developed for myself, um, over the, over the time to help me be able to be consistent. So for, for people, I mean, I can't remember the number, but I know Carol King mentioned how many tunes she had written before she felt like she had written her first good one and, you know, it was a lot, the number was large.

[00:22:27] Uh, are you a, are you a paper and pen kind of guy or are you a computer guy or, yeah. Are you, you know, here's my cell phone. Here it comes. No, no. I'm a, I am a paper and pen kind of guy. Um, uh, when I teach songwriting, uh, classes, uh, I, I break down, uh, when I teach system writing, you know, specifically trying to develop your own process.

[00:22:50] I, I have a class called Three Notebooks. And I have a system that's spread them out on the floor. Each notebook is, is dedicated to a certain step of the process so that I can kind of keep them. What am I doing right now? Kind of clear, clearly in my head. Okay. Um, demonstrate that. Not, uh, what do you mean?

[00:23:10] Three notebooks. So you have, uh, and you're using all three for, uh, Right. Yeah. So for me, the process, the process that I've settled on is, is broken up into, uh, the first stage, which is free, free writing. Um, and so the first notebook has, you know, there's a system to it, but essentially it is trying to write without filters in a way that, that creates a bank of language.

[00:23:37] Um, usually inspired by a prompt, either. Either manufactured or if there was an actual thing that day that had that needed to be written out about, but without sticking, without trying to write the song right off the bat, I think a lot of it is about not trying to write the song, you know, just like sit down and there I did it because you're cutting off a lot of opportunities.

[00:24:00] For it to change into something, uh, a lot of the things I consider to be the best stuff to come out of my writing has often changed midstream. And so I'm trying not to cut any opportunities for that off early. So the free writing, it lasts for a certain amount of time, and then I comb through that to find the pieces I think I want to use.

[00:24:23] And, uh, I move those pieces to the next notebook so that I've kind of, you know, paying for gold. I've gotten, yeah, I was just going to say, it's like, it's, it's like a, you got a placer, you're right. You know, mentally it helps me, helps me keep moving. Sure. That part's done. Don't revisit it. You know, now I'm doing this.

[00:24:46] Um, and uh, the second notebook there's, you know, it's, it's all, there'll be a lot to go into now, but there's a system for. Exploring those ideas and starting to, uh, bounce them off of each other. Combining those nuggets in different ways to see if they speak to each other, if any new ideas come from, uh, from those good chunks, uh, of the free write.

[00:25:10] Um, and once those discoveries have been made in the second notebook, which is all centered around this, uh, writing process called collisions, which is just taking your ideas and trying to, uh, slam them against each other and see if something new is born out of them. I take the what then the refined pieces of that and I move them to the third notebook which is a, which is about structuring the final idea.

[00:25:33] So I've got the raw material at that point I feel like it's ready to go and then the third notebook is about applying several different sort of structural formats that I, uh, That I find fit my personal, um, taste, you know. There's tons of structures out there that are great for other people to use. But for my voice, the ones, you know, I set it on mine.

[00:25:58] And so, I take them in and I kind of apply them into those structures. And it's more about puzzle pieces and problem solving at that point. When you write a song, uh, are you thinking then when you get to the third notebook stage, uh, okay, I, I'm, I'm going to put in a certain key for my voice? Or do you, do you, do you get like, are you one of those kind of artists that thinks, well, I better not do this in D?

[00:26:24] Cause I just did, you know, that last song in D, so, Jonas, how high can I sing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you doing that kind of thing, or are you going with your structure, or are you, I mean? I definitely, um, I mean, when you talk about music first or lyrics first, like all of that thought process is lyric based, but definitely I have, you know, just voice memo recording after voice memo recording when there's a musical idea that I like, um, and so at a recording process.

[00:26:53] I might start to, I might start to say, Oh, I, I've got, I, I've got this thing in the bag that I think is, fits. So when, so when the music starts getting introduced. It if then the writing starts to move with it and those things start to work together, which is nice I just save that part of the process for a little bit later.

[00:27:11] Okay Yeah, my range is not large. So I'm gonna I'm gonna play my strengths I'm not gonna push my luck on the keys and things like that. Well, there's and you know, I think that's wise and You know Um, and I, I think every artist that I've interviewed, uh, uh, seems to have their junkyard of, of tunes that they go out and say, Hey, you know, I think I might have a melody out there and for you, it's on the phone or recording, right?

[00:27:45] Yeah. So the music itself is a little bit different from the lyrics itself. And, uh, wow, that's a very thorough process. It's the first I've ever heard of it, and I, I, I think it's, uh, I think it's great, actually. Well, you know, yeah, you, when I, I mean, I've got two kids, and I've got, you know, a lot of students, and I've got a pretty active gigging life, and if I want to keep writing, Uh, the time is compressed.

[00:28:10] And so, for me, it was, it was, if you, if it's, and it's important to me, cause it makes me, you know, it's part of my life to writing makes me feel better. And so, cutting out, making it a, making it a 30 minute process every day, I mean, it doesn't produce great stuff every time, but Um, but I can do it, I can get it done in 30 minutes, and then if I have something worth working on, I can find other time to really dig into it.

[00:28:35] Are you the kind of musician that, uh, has a radio going on in his head all day, or are you, uh, maybe because you're a teacher? You know, you have to, you have to have that 30 minute session to turn the radio on. Yeah. As far as for my personal work, yeah, personal work. And, you know, I, I like, you know, is, is there a, a Jonas Frittle radio, you know, uh, 24 seven kind of plan, uh, or Are you, you know, what's inside the brain during the day, where the muse is, you know?

[00:29:12] Yeah, I, there's, there's a lot of hustling in, in, uh, in this life. So, when I'm, when I'm at work, when I'm at work, you know, it's, the amount of, like, email life that a gigging musician has is pretty intense. I don't ever tell you that, so. Um, and you know, you have to be your own web designer a lot of times. So, yeah, the daily grind, I'm pretty task focused on those, those pieces.

[00:29:39] Uh, which is all the more reason to carve out the time that radio you're talking about to turn it on. Because I don't have the, I don't have whatever it takes to kind of simultaneously, You know, teach fill tunes, but then also have songwriting kind of going on in the back. I wouldn't think so. I mean, and I, so, even better, Uh, for folks that are out there that if you're in that kind of situation where you, you know, you're a dentist, you know, and you have to concentrate, let's say, hopefully it makes sense.

[00:30:15] Hopefully they concentrate. Hopefully they concentrate. But I mean, the idea there that, uh, the fertile method, I'll call it, the three book method, the fertile method, uh, makes a lot of sense to me. I think it's a good, good way of approaching it. It's a healthy way. I think so. You know, um, it, because you're setting aside like a ritual, well, this is my creative and I think the muse will, you know, uh, rise to the occasion with that kind of, Um, so that's, that's very, very cool.

[00:30:46] And it was wonderful that you're teaching students that as well at the old town school plug there, uh, go and take this guy's songwriting course. We're going to take a little break and then we're going to come back and talk just a little bit more about the hardships of being an independent musician.

[00:31:05] You're on Strung Out, and we're back, and prior to the break, uh, we were talking just, just touched the difficulty of being your own web designer, your own promoter, your own, um, whatever. It's an amazing thing. I just read a, an article not too long ago. It was a British, um, uh, paper or whatever. I found it just going through, you know, my computer.

[00:31:36] But they're talking about the fact that independent artists such as yourself really hold up the music industry. The collapse of record labels and the whole structure that existed, I would say all the way up to maybe, uh, 2000, I'll be generous, 2004. Um, where you did have, uh, an industry that was looking for an artist such as yourself.

[00:32:05] And, you know, don't worry, Jonas. I'll, you know, we'll have our A& R and that sort of thing. And now it's, that's kind of gone. So you'd have to wear so many different hats and how do you explain that to somebody, um, that approaches you and says, you know, I want to get into music. What do I need to do? Well, I don't know that I have, uh, I mean, yeah, I don't know that I have the, uh, any advice that's, that's going to help anybody.

[00:32:33] And I mean, I, when people ask those kinds of questions, I can simply tell them when. What it is, I, I do. Yeah, that's a must. Which it is, um, learn every part of it. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it's, yeah, in this particular moment in time, um, you need to be able to do it all. Uh, to give yourself a chance. It is not, uh, enough just to create good work.

[00:33:04] Um, because there's a lot of people creating good work, and we have more access to it than ever before, and only will continue to. Uh,

[00:33:18] that said, what I think, if I could go back and, and have, um, have a talk with, uh, younger Jonas, It would also be to balance that out without, without trying to shoulder it all yourself all the time. I think having and being, being willing to ask for help and having a network of people to, to support you is really important.

[00:33:50] Um, and it's something that you can see exists. It's one of the things I like about bluegrass music or traditional music, different formats is, um, there's a really nice tradition of people who are successful at a high level. Still being very generous with their time and their help with, uh, people who are up and coming.

[00:34:13] You've mentioned, you know, Special Consensus a little earlier, and I know Greg, uh, working with, um, the Sullivan Sisters, uh, who are a young, uh, bluegrass band, a bluegrass duo in Evanston. Uh, and they're just, they're doing phenomenal stuff at a young age as high schoolers, and you see the community of bluegrass coming around to give them every opportunity to, and that's, that's great.

[00:34:40] Reaching out and asking for help is, is important. Also, you gotta be willing to do your own legwork, so some sort of balance between those two things. Where maybe a record label used to do that for people? I think a record label did do that for people in, uh, back in the day, um, and it just doesn't exist anymore.

[00:35:02] It's gone. So, which makes me kinda curious if like a, uh, an institution like the Old Town School of Folk Music should be teaching something about the business. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, uh, uh, I've seen, um, sort of the weekend workshops and a one off maybe panel discussions on, on the topic, but, uh, But yeah, I mean, if, if me, if we had an, uh, record label exec come in for a session, I would take that course.

[00:35:35] Yeah. I mean, it's funny. I mean, yeah, I don't think that's, it's one of those things that, uh, I think anybody that's an independent musician, uh, for the most part, you have to just accept the fact that you are going to be your own record label. You are going to be your own producer. You are going to be the person.

[00:35:57] You know, booking your shows, you're going to be the one promoting the shows, you're going to have to make your own posters, you're going to, so much of that now, is, um, incumbent upon the artist. And that makes it difficult to be creative. It's hard to find the time. Exactly. If you have to do all the things, then the time gets compressed.

[00:36:17] Yeah. One of the more challenging things, when you try not to be pessimistic about the, the music industry at the moment, but it is, it is what I try to explain to people who, who, you know, It's not even, even though like the streaming pay, payouts, you know, yeah, people should be getting more money. But what I don't think music listeners realize is the money is time.

[00:36:38] We all know that. And so if, if, uh, if people who are creating maybe a really good initial record and they release it, maybe they could have toured and, and generated enough money from CD sales to make their next album and that's the album that you're going to, that's going to change it like that was the album you're going to fall in love with, with that, for that band.

[00:36:58] But these days, if they can't sell the CDs, they can't make any money from streaming that first record, then they all get, they all go nine to five jobs, they can't make the second, they can't make the second record. So that record never exists, the one that you were hoping to get out of that particular craze.

[00:37:14] So, there's just so much creative work I think that will not happen. Because people just can't get enough momentum from that. It's so hard to get that momentum from the starting point. I think you're right. And I think uh, uh, the danger of that is then that working musicians that And this article kind of alluded to that.

[00:37:37] It's it's you're cutting off the hardest set that needs Before they can even get going because it's it's just so counterproductive Uh and exhausting. Yeah, um You But there is some hope in the, as we mentioned on the last podcast, uh, I think, uh, I like, uh, you use the term hyper local and I, I think that's a great way to just describe not only, uh, what I would love to see for the Chicago area, uh, a renaissance of, of the folk scene with some vibrancy, but also, There might be something there.

[00:38:14] I, I, I've known a couple groups of musicians up in like, uh, Northern Michigan that had like a cooperative kind of spirit going, you know, and a, a, a genuine cooperative. Um, and maybe, maybe that. Is where it's at. Um, and, uh, you have to kind of, uh, you know, if you're going to do that, part of it is you have to kind of check your ego at the door and say, yeah, all the artists, let's all band together and go.

[00:38:45] You know, and, uh, it's, it's, it's not like, well, you know, I'm, I'm in it for myself kind of. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, well, I can talk to you forever and I love that you're teaching and, uh, I love the brittle method of, uh, songwriting. We're going to have to do this again. Yeah. And, um, and, uh, And have an opportunity to have you play even more for a strung out.

[00:39:13] Um, why don't you play one out and before you do that, your last. Bit of advice to that, that novice musician that wants to be Jonas Fridle. Oh my gosh. First piece of advice would be don't, don't want to be Jonas Fridle, man. Go, go be who you are. Like Jonas Fridle. Be like Jonas Fridle, man. Well said. Yeah.

[00:39:38] Yeah. What's a good piece of advice? What have you learned the most, uh, from, you know, moving here to Chicago and, and getting involved and, uh, you know? I think, um, I think being a good community member. When you talk about, when you talk about generating support, uh, for what you're doing, uh, be aware of what other people are doing.

[00:40:06] Um, and be supportive of, of them. If we're gonna have, if we're gonna have, uh, you know, music survive as a, as a community, uh, then be part of that community, which means giving, giving as much as you, you get. You know, go, go to other people's shows, play on their records. You know, if you like somebody, let your friends know that you like them.

[00:40:31] And then, uh, you know, all together we might be able to, to come into kind of a new age of what this stuff can be. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm willing to join your cooperation. Let's get that, uh, uh, I want to thank you for being on Strung Out and, uh, that's, uh, You just said in so many words kind of what the podcast is about, kind of creating this community of artists and, uh, really holding up, uh, especially the Chicago artists.

[00:41:01] You, you ended up in a town that has a very rich history of singer songwriters. And so, uh, we're very lucky, uh, to have Jonas here, uh, uh, in Chicago and, uh, doing so much for the community. Thanks so much for having me. I want to just play an old song. Call him or team here to kind of take us out. Just perfect.

[00:41:21] In a couple minutes of the last chance blues.

[00:42:56] Last chance. All right. Last chance there. And, uh, I want to thank again, Jonas Fredl for being with us here and starting out. And also for you for listening and tuning in on YouTube, uh, for those of you that are doing that. And until next time, take care. Bye bye. Thank you for listening. For more information about this show or a transcript, visit martinmccormack.

[00:43:23] com. While there, sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

[00:43:34] Social wrongs, pain we feel Makes no sense at all A swan song wasn't part of the deal Was no good at all Givin no choice, givin no steps