Strung Out Episode 211: THE EARLY CHILDHOOD CONUNDRUM

Early childhood and special needs students take a lot of patience, love and creativity to help.  However, the people who help such students in Chicago are not well paid and predominantly female.  Martin talks to Early Childhood Development teacher Robert Smith about the challenges and rewards of the profession. 

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Transcript

SO 211

[00:00:00] Welcome to Strung Out, the podcast that looks at life through the lens of an artist. Your host is the artist, writer, and musician, Martin Lawrence McCormack. Now here's Marty. Hey there, welcome to Strung Out, and I have Robert Smith with me, and we're going to keep things, uh, local on this podcast, uh, we're going to be talking about early childhood Some of the problems that are still existing.

[00:00:31] We talked maybe about a year ago. Yeah. Yes, and which we covered a little bit about your your job and Why don't you bring the listener up to speed a little bit about what's going on with your work? Well There still is a crisis in early childhood education and the crisis is finding Appropriate care for your child.

[00:00:55] The cost, location, the whole bit. There's a waiting list. As far as I'm going, I'm going into almost two years now of childhood. But I'm a little bit older than most of my coworkers. So, and I have some insight of what's going on. The thing that's troubling right now, As of last week, Chicago Public School teachers are out on a break.

[00:01:16] Right. But we're not. Ours is ongoing. Uh, kids are still coming in. And some of the kids that are graduating, because we're in the graduation cycle right now, kids are graduating, but those kids will stay with us till August. So they teach us Burnout. Yeah. What age group are we talking about? For me, it's, for me it's three, three to five year olds.

[00:01:37] Three to five year olds. Yes, yes. Uh, they're learning how to write their names and, and they're reading a little bit, learning a little bit of mathematics. We, we, we prime them for kindergarten so they can sit still. Their social emotional skills, how they, you know. Handle the conflicts, self regulation, that kind of thing, you know, how they control their emotions.

[00:01:56] So these kids, I'm assuming you have autistic kids. I have a couple of special needs children. Special needs. Which are fun. And then you have some regular kids. Regular kids that just work for whatever reason. Yes. Different nationalities. Okay. Yeah. Really nice. Yeah. It's, uh, it's, the challenging thing is that, like I mentioned earlier, it's, teachers are burning out.

[00:02:20] And we would like to take a break, but we can't because it's the nature of the beast. Kids have to be some place during the summer. And, uh, some kids, some of those children have older siblings, those siblings at home. And the kids, many times they'll come and start crying. I want to be at home with my, my brother, my sister.

[00:02:37] You can't, they got to be here because they're still too young to take care of these four or five year olds. So it's, it's a conundrum. It's, it's really. You know, what do you do? And you have to calm the children down. And at the same time, we're burning out because we need a break. We have PTO, personal time off, but that only covers for so long.

[00:02:56] For a couple of, you know, you can only take it so much if it's approved because they, you have to have teachers around all the time. Is it, is it, I mean, I, the mind boggles at the fact that you're doing it year round. Yes. I mean, that's, you know, especially in a teaching situation. Exactly. Exactly. Are there too few of you guys?

[00:03:18] We are short of help, but the nature of this business, there is a crisis in hiring too. Uh, as I mentioned a year ago, it's 97 percent women and 3 percent men. I'm part of that 3%. And for black men is even smaller. And within the men that get in this field, like I am within four or five years, they're gone.

[00:03:40] The issue is the pay. It doesn't pay a lot. Uh, you can walk in with a bachelor's degree in early child education and make, maybe starting 35, 40, 000. That's not a lot of money today. No. I found a book, a book titled, uh, Getting Men Involved and it was about getting, getting men in the field of early child education.

[00:04:00] This book was copyrighted in 1993. If I was in this field in 1993, I would have only made 11, 000 that year. And at the time I was working as a computer programmer, I was making 45, 000. Because I have kids, a woman to take care of, you know. So the money is not good. And then it's a lot of work. The work I do now is more complicated than when I was working as a software engineer.

[00:04:22] But you're finding it rewarding. Yes, yes, yes. Unto itself, you, you can only be rewarded so much. Exactly, exactly. You got to eat and live, but You got to eat and live. There's a lot of headaches that come along with the job. What, what do you, uh, is, is it, uh, Is it a field that, uh, is publicly supported? Is it privately supported?

[00:04:42] Where, where do, where, where is the money coming? Uh, some places are publicly, uh, like CPS helps support where I work at. And there's fundings from other companies too. Basically, you know, it's, it's a, it's a big school like make sure over there, I'm sure they get public funding. Funding from the government to hold it for Head Start and preschool.

[00:05:03] So if there's money there, but there's just a lot of seeking, it's like a rotation, you know, I think since I've been there, like four or five people have gone, you know, and feeling that spot, like we have a position that's open in one of our classrooms and it's been fulfilled, unfulfilled for a whole year, you know, and the lead teacher suffers because we have temps coming in, And they can only do so much.

[00:05:29] They're not as invested as we are. Like, they come in, they're professional, they do their job, they help with the children, but we're more invested in the kids because we do documentation, we do these other things, uh, you know, interacting with the kids. Some of them just come there for a week or two, maybe a month.

[00:05:44] Are these temps actually trained? Yes. To do it? Some of them have backgrounds, yes. But, some of them have said they don't want to work for them. They like it because it pays more. Uh, it's like that. 25, 28 an hour is not bad. traveling nurses, that kind of thing. Exactly, exactly, exactly. And they have control, you know, they can go to different places.

[00:06:04] Why do you think, uh, uh, why do you think there's, first of all, so few men besides, you know, obviously money has a lot to do with it. And, you know, is, and so few black men in the, in, in this field too. Is there something there that, uh, you know, we have, uh, Mayor Johnson, you've got this, uh, you know, these, uh, very, very much, uh, pro, uh, African American business pro everything, you know, in that regard, small business minded.

[00:06:38] And, um, is this something that can be solved on the city level or is this something that's requiring, It's not a prestigious job working with early young children. Uh, it's more prestigious working with teenagers, you know, in high school or college teaching college, but working with little children.

[00:06:55] There's a stigma about that too. Also, you know, there's a lot of things you have to go through the fingerprinting, background check, which is standard for most teaching. But I'll tell you, there's times when there's been fathers, not now, but there's been a few situations where the fathers have brought the kids in and they look at me real hard.

[00:07:14] Oh, bring your daughters in. And they're like, you know, he's going to be, what's my kid? You know, is he's guys, is he up? And yes, I had a kid. Submit 20, 30 documents to get in this place. FBI has got my fingerprints. Come on, obvious, but there's still, I look at their face. They're still, yeah, exactly, exactly.

[00:07:30] And I was told, I was told from some of my classmates when I was taking classes, uh, this hasn't turned out to be true for me, but they're saying, they said, Robert, you know, there are going to be some parents who are not going to have, bring their kids there because it's a guy working. They told me. Wow. So reverse.

[00:07:49] Exactly. that comes along with. An my biggest fear was worki because they have to go t to escort them right up t back with them do their b know, I was nervous becau you know, Mr robert did t I'm in trouble, but there place that helps a lot. I So you have camos, you have your peers, your peers. Yeah, exactly.

[00:08:14] So there's, and the kids most honest, most children are honest. They try to be honest. You know, I would think, I would think so. I mean, uh, there have been cases, you know, you hear in the news where molestation goes on and that doesn't help with us guys, but that's happening, uh, across the board, across the board, schools.

[00:08:32] I mean, yes. Yeah. But that, I mean, I would think in your line of work, transparency, It has to be paramount. I mean, wouldn't a dad taking a kid, you know, to school know that you're vetted? I know, I know. It doesn't matter. I might have to change that child's diaper. Right. And I have done that. It's just the bias, the inherent bias in a guy's mind.

[00:09:02] There's this older black guy. Yeah, exactly. Who's here? I've changed a lot of diapers in my life because I have kids, but I never changed the girls until I got this job and there were a couple of girls that were still not potty trained and I had to go in the bathroom and Mr. Robert, I peed on myself and I grabbed the diaper.

[00:09:21] We have to change their clothes, the whole bed. They have to do it. Yeah, bro. You know? Yeah. And it is what it is. And I don't know. I got comfortable now. Those kids are potty trained now, so they're good. But that's part of your work. It's part of my job. We have to do that. So you're talking about kids that are coming in that, uh, that might have more than just social interaction.

[00:09:41] There's their skills. Exactly. Their home skills. Exactly, exactly. You've got kids coming in who've never had a teacher. And I can tell you, we've had a couple kids where every five minutes, it's mommy coming, it's mommy coming. Do that all day. Right on. For three weeks. Do they pay you enough for that? It's really tough.

[00:10:04] No, she's coming. Mommy's coming. Daddy's coming. You gotta go to sleep, you know. Go wake up. After three weeks, they don't even ask him. They're gonna, you know. And it's, it's taxing on you. You go home, you're like this. Sure. Sure. How would you like to tell your daughter something every five minutes? Something.

[00:10:24] You know. You wouldn't want to do that. Yeah. I, uh, I, uh, play down at, uh, uh, down in Springfield, Illinois, and, uh, it's, uh, the, it's a big institute that's, uh, for, you know, special needs. Okay. And, um, I went into the men's room and they had a little piece of paper over the urinal and it said, if you're standing here and you're feeling angry You should not be here.

[00:10:59] You should not, you should be thinking of a different job. It's the Hope Institute that, uh, which is a huge, huge, and I, and I, and I watched what you're describing with these people where they have a kid that is going over and over and over again doing the same thing. What kind of training do you get for that?

[00:11:23] You have to, I would say to anyone getting in this field, you have to love children. Okay. First, if you've got a natural love for children, you're going to make it. The training comes after they teach you how they think, how the, how group care the whole bit, you have to go through this whole thing of how, like Nacy, you're, you know, the national association of education of young children.

[00:11:44] That's the standard rule. The DCSF, their rules and regulations, you know, in bed to lay down how, you know, how for our partners. are, it goes on and on, but you have to love children first. If you get through that, then you're okay. And I'll tell you, my love of children has helped me more than anything.

[00:12:03] Because I've been tested many, many times. And you have to have a sense of humor. You know, you have a kid coming, Mr. Robert, and they're hitting you, you know. I said, you know, what are you hitting me for? You know, what did I do today? And they start laughing, you know. But you have to have a sense of humor. If not You're not going to make it and I agree what you saw.

[00:12:22] But you've got to love children first. You've got to adore children. You've got to have that right attitude. You've got to, you've got to, yeah, you've got to. And it helps because I was a father, I'm a father. And you know, it helps. But there are people who, you know. They get out because they can't handle it.

[00:12:34] I heard stories from a director at a college who told me he knew women who had gotten bachelor's degrees in this field and got out in two years. Wow. They got burnt out. They went to probably higher grades like got into high school or something. But this can burn you out. So let's take a little break.

[00:12:54] And we're going to be right back. I'm talking to my friend Robert Smith who is uh, Special, uh, education, early childhood profession, early childhood profession, which tells into so much more than I even realize. So we're, we're going to be talking about the, uh, the challenges that being an early childhood professional and you're not strung out.

[00:13:22] Hey, want to show your support of Martin's Artist Endeavors? Buy me a coffee is an online site that makes supporting Marty easy. In just a few taps you can make a payment of any amount and no account is needed. You can also decide to become an ongoing supporter. Go to martinmccormack. com and click on the words Support Martin.

[00:13:45] Let's help Martin keep it all capital.

[00:14:02] Freedom, such a beautiful word. Wondered if you'd heard all about freedom. Freedom comes with a fee to get. Liberty, freedom, such a funny thing, we think we are free, next moment we lose it. Freedom, the enemy of those who fear, liberty,

[00:14:34] we act like it's free, as freedom is free. Free for the taking, we can only have liberty.

[00:14:49] Freedom

[00:14:55] to

[00:15:13] freedom. Freedom over that hill. Freedom, we can disagree, but still agree, to live in liberty. Liberty dies in the blink of an eye, and then we all are truly free. Such a precious thing, to live in liberty, such a precious dream. For those who can only dreamer. Freedom of wanting to be free. Freedom.

[00:15:59] Freedom,

[00:16:03] freedom, freedom.

[00:16:59] Wanting to be freedom. Never been free. Freedom to pray openly. Freedom. Freedom. Freedom.

[00:17:18] Freedom. We need freedom. Freedom.

[00:17:30] We're back, and I've got Robert Smith with me, an early childhood development, uh, professional. And we're talking about the, the challenges of early childhood development. And, um, I was curious. Are, is there like a, a union? Yes. Yes there is. I was going to bring that up. There is a SEIU, you know, and they're trying to get us 25 an hour.

[00:17:57] They've been trying for a while. And I was wondering how come we haven't gone on a strike yet? Why haven't you? I don't know. I don't know. We should, I mean, if we went on a strike, my God. Across the country. Oh my God. The money we'd get. That, that's, it's, again, as I mentioned earlier, you've got to love children, but you've got to be able to eat and feed your family.

[00:18:17] And this field is So demanding man, and they make you jump through so many hoops just to get this job. Not only the courses you have. The coursework is very intense. If you're taking a regular college course, it's 15 weeks. Quizzes, tests, research papers, the whole bit. Then you gotta go through the drug test and background checks and fingerprinting, and then you gotta go for a TB test and all this other stuff, you know?

[00:18:41] And then you got these other sort certifications. You gotta be a mandated reporter where you can report if there's some unusual things going on in the class. There's so much you have to go through and then they all pay you a lot. It's a lot of stuff you have to do just to put your hands on those. So who is your, like, when you guys have a union meeting?

[00:19:00] Yes. What are they saying to you? Are they like Some of the things we're talking about, what they're working on. There's a union rep that I work at. But, you know, I don't know. Every year we get a cost of living increase. It's a little bit of money. Is it matching inflation? No, it's not. If you want to bring in 20 year olds, 25 year old young kids, you've got to start at least 50, 000.

[00:19:26] Something like that, man. That money would attract people. One thing you mentioned, uh, to me was that you are seeing, uh, immigrants from Venezuela. My God. The ones that have come across the border, um, And, uh, Quiet. They have nowhere to go. And, I feel inept because I don't speak the language. I speak a few phrases in Spanish, talking about doing you a good morning.

[00:19:54] But I'm seriously thinking about buying a translator. Maybe a couple hundred bucks. Where, I understand if you, if I had a smartphone, you can put the app on, it can talk into it, it'll translate it. Google Translation. But I'm seriously thinking about buying a translating device, because I'm going to be in this field for a while until I, you know, drop dead or something.

[00:20:11] So I want to be able to communicate with them. Should I take a Spanish class? It's tough for now. My age. It's really tough for now. Well, if the union paid you to do it, would you do it? I probably would. Yeah. I probably would. But it's hard. You get older. I'm thinking of the actor Matthew McConaughey. Yeah.

[00:20:30] McConaughey. He's married to a Latino woman. And he was saying he learned Spanish. But he said, you gotta learn it when you're young. It's just much harder when you're young. It's true. I mean, you would have to be immersed. Exactly. You would have to be sent, uh, you know Live in Mexico for a couple Live in Mexico for a year.

[00:20:44] Exactly. Then I could pick it up. Yeah, exactly. Well, it sounds to me like this is a kind of a business that obviously is not going to go away. We're always going to have kids that need it. But now you're getting, you know, it's becoming geopolitical in the sense that you're getting, uh, you know, we have, we have kids from Iran.

[00:21:06] We have a kid who's from, uh, who speaks Arabic. It goes on and on and on. And, and we are the wonderful thing. One of the one of many things about this position is that you're their first teacher. Other than the parents, they walked through the door. Kids are holding a pencil like this, right? When they walk out, they're holding it like this.

[00:21:25] I could tell you the story right now. And some days when the kids come in they don't want to be there and I'll say the kids there so listen Could you write your name when you came? You can write your whole name so when you go into kindergarten next year and then say take out a sheet of paper put your name in the top you're gonna think We helped you they can write your name

[00:21:54] Then ask questions. Pete the Cat is very popular. Pete the Cat, of course. Pete the Cat, I bring, I bring a little Pete the Cat puppet here, and I put it up there in my chest. You know, we just, Pete, Pete the Cat's tour, we just did that recently. You would have loved it, cause he goes to Tibet, he goes to China, with his band, and he's playing.

[00:22:09] I was thinking about you. Right. You would love it. It was great. I wish I could do Pete the Cat's tour. Ha ha ha. Give me, uh, give me, uh, uh, uh. success story or what, you know, is there one kid that stands out in your mind that you always look back and say, Oh my God, I made a difference. Me and the teacher were talking about this a couple days ago.

[00:22:31] We had a child who was terrified of writing. Screaming and writing. You know, I can't do it, I can't do it. He would break down in tears. Walk away just screaming. He walked out of it. For you to write his name, look, Mr. Robert, I can write my name, but he was terrified. Like someone make a walk in class. I said, you can do this.

[00:22:49] You can do this. He's in a good school. I said, you're going to big people school now. That's what we call it. You know, and I've shown the picture of the school where he was going to. And I said, look at all the students, man, you're gonna be, it's incredible to be done through. He's doing well. He's doing great.

[00:23:04] But that's not the story of success, but I've been with him being terrified, terrified just to write his name. But now he can do it. You know, it's worth, you know, that's worth the little money I'm making. Well, you're changing the world. Exactly. One kid at a time, you're touching souls, as I, uh, as I always say, uh, uh, you know, to be in the business of touching souls.

[00:23:25] Exactly. Rather than being in the business of, you know, uh, uh, uh, writing software, which was good, but when we had a graduate come yesterday and his sister is in one of our classes, right? He saw me, he ran and jumped in my eyes. They can't beat that. You can't beat that. Mr. Robert, I said, tell me something I don't know.

[00:23:48] He said, I can count them at 200. I said, I can't do that. You know, it's amazing. It's amazing. And you're going to, it's just, it's remarkable. It's of all the jobs I've had. I mean, I love writing software and working computers because it's a part of my family and I went to school for it, but this is so rewarding at so many different levels, you know, emotionally, spiritually, you know, and you see it, you see it.

[00:24:11] Well, let's take a little break and I want to touch on that when we come back because, you know, you made this career change. Oh, fairly late, late, big, big time. So, and during the pandemic, during the pandemic, so like you're one of two guys I know that Wow. Done a big life change. Yeah. And, uh, and so let's, uh, let's take a break.

[00:24:33] We're talking with Robert Smith, early childhood development, uh, professional who, uh, is trying to, uh, shed a little light for all of us, uh, um, on the, the need, first of all, and, um, and how difficult it is to keep this field filled and going, but how important it is because these children are. Not going away.

[00:24:58] Yes, exactly. We'll be right back after this. Hello, I'm Polly Chase, here with artwork by Marty McCormick. This is titled Dream. It's an 8 by 10 pen and ink drawing. Be lovely in an office or child's room. Anywhere you need inspiration to let go and see where your dreams can take you. To inquire about pricing and to view other pieces of Marty's artwork, go to martinmccormick.

[00:25:28] com. Thank you.

[00:25:55] When I was a kid, it lived under my bed. When I was older, it lived in my closet.

[00:26:06] Nowadays it likes to live in my hand. There's just no way I can dodge it. Fear is a friend and a foe Fear is with me wherever I go, we know Fear, a foe but a friend And it's gonna be with me to the end I fear whenever there's something new that holds me back If there's a change, it gets real mad.

[00:26:52] When I wanna leap, it attacks. How can something so good be so bad? Yeah! Is a friend and a FO

[00:27:11] is with me wherever I go. We know the A fall, but a friend and it's going to be with to the end.

[00:27:49] I see it lives in you when I look in your eyes. Let's work together and find a way

[00:28:00] to get over our fear and through its lies and finally make our fear obey. Fear is a friend and a foe. Fear is with me whenever I need it.

[00:28:25] Fall a friend and it's going be with end

[00:28:36] is a friend and a boat.

[00:28:43] Me whenever I go.

[00:28:50] And it's gonna be with me to the end, I feel it. I'm here with

[00:29:31] Robert Smith in our final part of this podcast. And, um, uh, like I said, you're, you're one of two people. Um, my friend, D. A. Q. woman, um, became a child advocacy lawyer. Uh, congratulations, Dave. Um, and you made this decision during the pandemic. And, uh, That's a huge change. You made a huge change in your life.

[00:29:56] This was something I was thinking about in 2008, 2010. I was trying to get into a program at the city colleges, but it was conflict with my job because the courses were offered at different times and I was working in the suburbs and I couldn't make it, but something happened. The pandemic opened up doors and then he had zoom online classes and I made the decision.

[00:30:17] Go for it right now. And that's what I did. I started taking classes in August of 2020. My first class was on a Saturday and I stayed with it. And within, within after taking two or three classes, I was qualified to actually work as an aide if I wanted to. So I could have left my part time job. He said, no, let me continue doing this.

[00:30:37] And I continued it. And I was able to go beyond that working as a teaching assistant, and it's nice. I love it when the lead teacher's not there. I love it. And I always tell the guys, I hate to do this on camera, but I say, guys, Ms. Such and such is gone. And they start laughing. They start laughing. They say, oh, Mr.

[00:31:00] Robbins is going to crack the whip. Do you see yourself there? in this field for a long time? I am, you know, I'm 70 years old right now. I don't know how much time I have, but I cannot think of doing anything else. I have said to many people, I wish I was younger and done it years ago, but I wouldn't have been making the money I'm making now, which is not a lot.

[00:31:20] But as I shared with you earlier, the pay was so low. So, and I had three kids. I even supported 11, 000 a year. Now 11, 000 back in the eighties and nineties. Would've gone further, but three kids. Three kids, that was the pittance. You know, when you think about it, I mean, compared to, you know, what's the hope?

[00:31:42] What's the hope of, uh, you know, you getting a, a hefty pay increase commensurate with the, uh, the work? I don't know. It sounds so difficult. I know, I know. I don't know. Maybe you have to move, leave, and go to another position, another company that pays, some, not all schools pay the same, some pay more money, maybe, but I don't know, I don't know.

[00:32:04] The thing is, Rishu, when you get older, and I'm sure you notice, time becomes more important, and like this cycle of, you know, Classes ending, you know, school calendar ending in June, and you're still working. Meanwhile, the other teachers in other districts are out traveling, doing what they're wanting, but you're still teaching.

[00:32:24] And it's tough. It's tough. 40 hours a week for a seven year old is a lot. Yeah. It is a lot. And I keep having flashbacks of when I was younger working 40 hours a week, but I was very young. 20s, 30s, 40s. You had energy to burn. Now, you know, there's things I want to do. We're lucky, uh, you know, we end the podcast and then Robert and I, it takes us 15 minutes to get out of our chairs.

[00:32:45] I got aches and pains that come. I say, where does that come from? Well, you dummy, you're 70 years old. I know. You're not 45. You're, just wait. You've got the constant pain that hangs with you. That's what I love. I'm like, what the hell? I know, you say, where did that come from? Let me ask you this in the last minutes that we have here with this podcast.

[00:33:07] You clearly are in love with this job. Yes, I love this feeling. Give your best elevator pitch to somebody that, you know, wants. It's like thinking, wow, this guy is very content, very happy. He's underpaid, but why should I go into this? Pitch, pitch to the camera. Uh, to be honest, I am underpaid, I feel. And there's probably thousands of early childhood professionals that feel the same way.

[00:33:32] However, I have a supplement income. So I do have Social Security come in. That helps, that helps, uh, gives, gives me a cushion. That's it. But if you're young and you don't have a lot of responsibilities and you want to change the world, early childhood education is where it is. You see it right away. And I was told from teachers, they said, every day is not the same.

[00:33:54] And I agree. Every day is unique. Every day is unique. And you feel that you're doing, you may be a little tired, maybe not. So if you're in your twenties, you know, if I was working in this field in my twenties, I wouldn't feel the pain. I I know I would I'm talking as an old guy and you would approach it as a 20 Exactly exactly, you know, you came in at the right time Yeah, and I do have some I work with some 20 something year olds and they're not as tired as I am Why why aren't more people in our age bracket jumping into this?

[00:34:25] I mean retirees or whatever because they want to do other things It's a big responsibility to take care of children You're not only teaching and educating but you're modeling They're looking every word you say. You can't swear. You have to be careful how the language you use. I think I used the word zombie once and I was mistaken.

[00:34:44] That's but some other kid that used it already. I said, don't use that word. I said, I'm the kids is that they watching it on TV, you know, but I have to be. Yeah, I'm new at this. So I can't swear. The repetition that you were talking about with that kid going, where's, you know, where's mommy? Oh, that's, that's taxing.

[00:35:00] It goes on for a few weeks because they feel physical stamina. You do. They're with their parents their whole lives. And all of a sudden they're thrown into this environment with these other groups of children, look different than them, and these strangers, and you're trying to, you know, trying to bond with them.

[00:35:15] Every day, you know, like I said, every five, ten minutes, where's mommy? They're crying. They don't sleep the whole bit, but after three weeks you get through it. Then they're saying they're coming in. They excited to come in. And I can tell you a couple of, we had one kid. He used to draw, take a sheet of paper and drew a map of where he lived.

[00:35:30] Mr. Robert, this is where I live. Let me go home. I said, you can't walk out the door. He was a really smart kid. I look at it and look at it. Yeah. Buildings. Yeah, the streets. I said, this is amazing stuff. You know, it's observation right here, you know, but you can't go take me out. I know where I live. No, you can't do this.

[00:35:51] Yeah. So, well, on that note, on that note, we're going to leave it at that because we will come back, but you, uh, you're going to see, uh, Robert a lot more often. We're going to have a roundup going and, um, and trying to make sense of this crazy world. Um, but. I want to thank you for doing what you're doing. I love doing it.

[00:36:10] This is great. This is fun. You're serving humanity and uh And look at this environment. Too bad they can't There's not a 360 degree turn. See the beautiful flowers. Just wonderful environment. Well, it's a great place. It's like a small piece of heaven on earth. We've witnessed a sparrow fight. Yes, that's true.

[00:36:27] Capers went nuts. But this is why we do this podcast. This time you're in the backyard. We'll, we'll be out here in November, but, uh, I'm, I'm Marty McCormick. I'm Robert Smith. And, uh, you've been watching and listening to strung out. We'll see you guys very soon. Bye bye. That's good. Thank you for listening.

[00:36:50] For more information about this show or a transcript, visit martin mccormack.com. While there, sign up for our newsletter. See you next time on Strung Out.

[00:37:06] So Some Wrong Pain, we Feel makes no sense at all. The Swan Song wasn't part of the deal, was no good call. Giving Out Choice, giving out that.