Kym & Rick

In this episode, I speak to Cork couple, Kym and Rick Kenny. We talk about how, initially, they had different opinions on whether to have children or not. Kym knew from a young age that she didn't want to, while Rick assumed he would have kids in the future. He describes how he came to see this as an automatic assumption and how he didn't know if it was actually something he wanted or not. They share the process they went through, both individually and as a couple to examine these positions and make the decision that kids are not for them. They also talk about the enjoyment and freedom that comes with this choice. 

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Transcript

Mgt O Connor  0:13  

Welcome to the Are Kids For Me podcast. This podcast is for you if you have ever asked, or are currently asking yourself this question. It's a big question which can be hard to answer for lots of reasons. And I am hoping to provide you with some information that can help. In each episode I will speak to people with personal and/or professional experience in this area. My own name is Margaret O Connor. I'm a counsellor and psychotherapist who offers specialist counseling on this topic. I conducted my master's research on how women in Ireland make the decision to become mothers or not. And I really really love talking about this topic. I hope you find it useful.

Today I am speaking to Kim and Rick Kenny from Cork. They're in their mid 30s. They've been married for eight years and together for 14. Kim has been working as a dental nurse for the past 19 years and is now pursuing a career in counseling and psychotherapy. Rick has worked in dental sales for the past 14 years with continued success. They have two dogs and two cats. They love traveling and exploring the world. Kim enjoys personal development, meditation, exercising and being outdoors. Rick enjoys playing guitar, cooking and the outdoor lifestyle. 

We talk about how initially they had different positions on the topic, as Kim always knew she didn't want to have children. And Rick, as he describes it, more passively assumed he would have kids at some point without really knowing if this was what he wanted or not. They describe the process they went through individually and as a couple to really examine these positions, and how they got to both happily deciding that kids were not for them. We talk about the relief and sense of freedom that came with this and the enjoyment of living a life that allows them to pursue the interests and opportunities they're interested in. 

So, Kim and Rick, thanks very much. I'm delighted to be talking to ye this evening. And so yeah, I suppose I'm wondering if we might start with ye just tell us maybe how you met as a couple.

Kym Kenny  2:19  

Sure. Yep, no problem. I suppose I started working for a dental company about 15 years ago now. And I was dental nursing for a period of time before that and I started working for a dental company when I came back from London. And Rick started working about six months after me and his dad was my boss at the time. I had to train Rick in. And it kind of all started from there really, about six months after that we kind of got together and we've been stuck together ever since (laughter).

Rick Kenny  2:51  

 Yeah absolutely.

Mgt O Connor  2:53  

Brilliant. Okay, and how long, when did you get married? 

Kym Kenny  2:56  

We got married literally eight years ago this Saturday. Oh, yeah. So we got  married in Antigua. And we did the honeymoon in St. Lucia. So that was nice. Yeah. 

Mgt O Connor  3:08  

Okay.

Rick Kenny  3:08  

 It's a it's a distant memory with Covid going on believe me (laughter)

Mgt O Connor  3:13  

Yes, wedding planning at the moment is not an easy thing. That sounds amazing. Okay, brilliant. Um, and yeah, I suppose it would be interesting just to find out maybe how each of you felt individually around children, if you had any awareness of how you felt, I suppose before ye met and how that went as a couple for you then..

Rick Kenny  3:33  

I suppose when I.. when we kind of met I was very, I suppose immature and making my way. I was only 19 at the time so my focus would have been sport, maybe a bit of work and study, you know, nothing. Oh there's a dog! Nothing major, like so I mean, I had assumed at some point, I'd have kids, you know, it was just a given, I hadn't given a huge amount of thought to it, early days. until it until it came up for us.

Mgt O Connor  4:04  

Okay, and Kim, how about you?

Kym Kenny  4:05  

For me, I always knew I didn't want kids, I always knew it just it was never there. And the maternal thing was it just wasn't there for me. And kids are nice, and I'm happy for people who have them. Absolutely. But I just kind of always knew it wasn't for me. I'm more of an animal person, but that's..

Mgt O Connor  4:28  

Okay. And was it something you discussed early on or when did it come up as a discussion?

Rick Kenny  4:35  

At length! (laughter) Yeah, we did no, I mean, early on..obviously when you get together first, it's it's probably more getting to know each other, thinking about, you know, maybe getting married and stuff like but certainly it was after we got married we started to talk about it. I was pushing for the marriage more than the kids. You know what I mean? I didn't. .kids weren't even on my radar. I just assumed as I said it was something that would happen but kind of as we got married and we kind of got into our mid 20s. And then we kind of realized, well, Kim always kind of knew, but I realised jesus, I don't actually wake up in the morning thinking we've gotta get a move on here. You know what I mean? So that became kind of became, do I really want it? And then that was kind of the start of our conversation of just trying to be 100% sure we didn't want it. So we didn't regret it, you know, so we did really talk it to death like (laughter).

Kym Kenny  5:25  

We did yeah. I think like, I always put it out there when we first got together, I did say like, kids aren't for me. And I suppose, you know, even for myself, in a way, it was like, would that change as time goes by, you know, even though deep down, I was kind of no, it's not changing, and you hear from people oh you'll change your mind, and it will be different when you get older and someday you will. And I was like no, I'm pretty sure I know my own mind you know, I'm sure I know what I want, but, and it was after we got married, a lot of people were having kids and, you know, the traditional kind of, you know, get married, have kids, buy the house type thing. And, and that's when I said, you know, do I or don't I really like, you know, and it's not that the clock was ticking. I'm 37. So, you know, it's not like I was under pressure to make a decision or anything. But we did talk about it. And to be fair, I decided we I would try, as in of came off contraception, to put myself to the test to see, is that really what we want? And every month, no, it was a relief, you know, that really, really testing myself. And I suppose it was testing us too in a way to see was it really what we wanted. And it really did prove to me, it was like God Almighty it was a relief. One month I was late and it was like oh jesus no, no, this isn't what I wanted all. So that really, it was a kind of an emotional journey as well. 

Mgt O Connor  6:49  

That was quite a big step to take I suppose, was was it really something ye kind of just really wanted to be sure yourself or how was it? 

Rick Kenny  6:58  

I don't want to say it was a gamble. But it was almost like, you know, it was really like, yeah, (laughter)

Kym Kenny  7:02  

It was yeah (laughter)

Rick Kenny  7:04  

You know, we, we talked about it so much that we kind of talked ourselves into doubting ourselves. And then, you know, then you take that decision, that decision could have gone the other way. So, I would. I mean, the advice would be would be to anybody is obviously to think about it, but then you can overthink it as well. 

Mgt O Connor  7:22  

Yeah. Okay, so you can get stuck in this battle of logic. I suppose that was a very practical or real thing you could for you. 

Rick Kenny  7:29  

Yeah. You said it there. I mean, it's logic. And looking back at it now, because obviously, we're a lot older than when that happened. That was maybe six or seven years ago. I mean, I don't think you should be making that decision with logic, it should be a feeling, you know, you should know that you want to have kids not like, you know, it's not a mathematical equation do you know. So looking back, it was probably, obviously an immature decision to make, but it was the best we had at the time. 

Mgt O Connor  7:53  

Yeah ok..And that's interesting, actually, would you have gotten or felt that you had support from anywhere else? Was this quite a personal thing between the two of you? Or would you have looked anywhere for help on this trying to decide?

Kym Kenny  8:07  

 I think I think we had the support, if we were in favor of having kids, and people would have been behind us, oh it'll be fine, it'll be grand, you know. But the decision not to I don't think that there was a huge amount, it was really kind of us on our own working out how we felt about it. And I suppose that for me, too, there was the worry, like what if Rick goes one way, and he really wants kids and I really don't. I suppose I was open enough and prepared to say, well, we might have to walk away from the marriage and everything else if it's a really strong pull on either side. But when it came down to it, we both felt, or kind of went you know, I really do know that that's not for me, and Rick was like, well, I'm either way as in, I suppose, you know, he doesn't think about it every day, it's not something he wakes up and wants you know. And that kind of gave me a bit of peace inside as well. Because I was very kind of insecure in that. Are you sure? Are you sure  are you sure, because I'd hate to be in a relationship where we resent each other for it, you know what I mean or there's conflict going on, or, you know, that kind of thing. And I like to be sure about things like that, and kind of, you know, and take consideration of Rick's feelings as well, because I kind of really knew for myself, you know,

Mgt O Connor  9:20  

And Rick was that..I'm wondering about that process, because I think it happens to a lot of people, you know, the assumption is, that's what everybody does. So that's what I'll do at some point, but it feels like a very far away, you know, when I'm much older and all those other things. So what was it like to actually kind of go oh, right, you know, grand but also I could live without it, like, was that a strange kind of process for you?

Rick Kenny  9:41  

I said like when we met, I was quite young. Kim was obviously quite young as well, but I was an immature young person, you know, and she like, I suppose there was an open mindedness but there was a huge amount of autopilot thing with me. I just assumed I'd have x career. I assumed I might have, you know, 2.4 kids or whatever you want to call it. And that's not really how, that can be how things work. But you can wake up when you're 45 or 50, and realize that's actually probably possibly not what I wanted. So I started to kind of grow up maybe late 20's, 26/27, and developing some autonomy of thought, and you know, then I realized, you know, this indifference isn't helpful. And then I kind of made a decision, I'm really, really happy in my relationship. I'm really, really happy in my life. I don't really think of kids, as I said, from one end of year to the other. So I actually came to the decision, Jesus, I didn't want kids, all along do you know!

Mgt O Connor  10:43  

Wow. And was that, was that a difficult process for ye as a couple? So there was a lot going on like, would that be a year or two? Or what kind of time span would that have been? 

Kym Kenny  10:53  

About two years? 

Rick Kenny  10:55  

Yeah a good two years.

Kym Kenny  10:56  

I mean, like, I'll talk everything through till I feel it's okay. You know, like, we're all right now we're at it. And so I suppose over the course of two years, we might be fine for a couple of months. And then I'd be like, Rick, how you feeling about this? Is this something? You know, I'd always check in, because I suppose I am very concerned that I really am a definite no, and I suppose if there was any doubt with Rick, I'd always check in just to make sure he was alright with it as well. I suppose I have my insecurities there you know, 

Mgt O Connor  11:26  

Were they difficult conversations to have? Like, did you feel, did you feel like it was kind of hanging over you? Or are you able to come out of it for a period of time, and then come back again?

Kym Kenny  11:34  

Yeah..I think it was a bit in and out, you know, like, we'd sit down and I'd kind of go..we could be having a glass of wine on a Friday, and I'd say so how you feeling about the kid, and he was like Jesus, here we go again, you know, and I'm like, you know, but I said, it's just out of concern for you to make sure that that's really what you want, and that you're happy about it. And because I said I suppose I know, for myself what a hard decision it is. And there is the emotional side, it can be a bit difficult, because you kind of go, you know, Jesus, I hope you're not making this decision based on me and that it's, you know, coming from you and it's your own. And I suppose over the course two years, we dropped in and out of it. And I suppose there's one good strong quality we have as a couple is that we've got good communication, and we don't mind chatting and talking about things. We're very open about stuff, you know, which made it easier. 

Rick Kenny  12:23  

Looking back on our 15 years together, that topic was the most discussed topic, as it should be like, because as Kim says, and we always said, and you said, you know, once you decide to have a kid, that's it, you know what I mean? You'll have a kid for life, you can come in and out of a job, you could just decide to move country, you can move back. But once you've got a kid, you have a kid for life. And you know, we talked it to death, as it should have been talked to death, you know. At the time, it might have felt a bit you know, Jesus, here we go again (laughter). Now it was never aggressive or anything but it was like, how many bottles of wine did we put down on that topic (laughter)

Mgt O Connor  13:01  

Okay, yeah. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. Yeah, yeah. But I know from talking to other couples, having that open communication seems to be so important. So each person needs to be able to own where they're at, even if that might feel difficult or scary to put it out there. But being honest as you can be, with yourselves and with each other seems to be important. 

Rick Kenny  13:23  

Can you imagine the resentment if you didn't, you know, talk about it. And then one person decided not to, and then 10 years later, oh I wanted one you know, geez, you can't live with that. 

Kym Kenny  13:33  

Yeah. Well, it's a tough one. To be fair, you know, I think, to be open and honest, and to talk about it. Really, I think that makes a huge difference. Absolutely.

Mgt O Connor  13:44  

I presume that needs to be there for all topics, like, you know, it can't just be this one, so that really needs to be there in the relationship anyway. 

Kym Kenny  13:52  

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I do think so. In any in any relationship, I think, you know, communication, sitting down and talking about things and giving each other that space. It's very important. I think it's one of the key ingredients to a successful relationship (laughter). They all have their ups and downs but it helps to be open. 

Mgt O Connor  14:14  

Yeah. Okay. And did things change for ye when ye did kind of make that decision and go, okay, that's that hopefully, you know, not many too too many more conversations, about that, did it feel like things changed, was it like a weight off or what happened?

Rick Kenny  14:27  

Definitely yeah.

Kym Kenny  14:27  

Absolutely, yeah. It was like, like, now we can get on with our lives. You know, we've put this to bed. We've kind of talked it to death, the whole thing. And now we can kind of get on and kind of go, oh, what do we want to do with our lives, in that sense? It's just I suppose it's just another little kind of thing on the road that, I suppose you know some people come to marriage or not marriage or buying a house or not buying a house, it's just one of those things that we felt, you know, okay, I think we're done, next. You know, what's next for us? 

Mgt O Connor  14:57  

Yeah. How did you figure that out, because I know some people find if difficult to figure out well, if I'm not doing this path, you know, the children path what, what am I going to do? Was it exciting or scary?

Rick Kenny  15:08  

I think it was just more we'll get on.. We haven't made any big, big decisions since then. You know, we've just been getting out with our lives. So I haven't gone in a mad career, well Kym has gone on a career path (laughter). But that was a big decision, but like, you know, it just allowed us to just go on with our, you know, daily life without this hanging over us. So, I mean, we're super busy from when we get up at seven in the morning to like, when we sit down to have our dinner at half past nine at night, you know, nothing's changed. So, we're just really..we eat late (laughter).

Kym Kenny  15:42  

Yeah (laughter). Well, yeah, I suppose like where we, we both work full time. You know, I'm studying, as you know, at the weekends and stuff. And like Rick's job is very busy as well at the moment. So we're kind of, and it's not just work because we love the outdoors life. We love traveling, cooking. We're kind of I suppose just normal people living a normal life you know, and I don't think we're, we don't miss, we're not missing out on anything. We're very happy in everything that we do, you know, I suppose the other side of this, too, it gives us options. A bit more freedom than what some some of our friends who have kids, they don't have as much freedom to do things, you know, or last minute decisions and extra time and things to do stuff, you know, so we kind of avail of that, to be fair, up until Covid obviously, but yeah, you know.

Mgt O Connor  16:31  

Yeah. Okay, that sounds really good. So yeah, so your time is full and busy with both work and, and other interests, and your dogs and cats (laughter)

Rick Kenny  16:47  

I think the main thing for us, you know, like, and we've always said, is just connecting with people in our life, you know, whether that's cousins, or, you know, brothers or sisters, you know, well neither of us have a  brother, but sisters, parents, you know, I mean, it's, we have a lot of time to see our circle. So, you know, I think those relationships probably have blossomed in the last five, six years, since, you know, we made a decision.

Kym Kenny  17:11  

Yeah they have.

Rick Kenny  17:11  

 Which is interesting. I'm only after thinking about that now (laughter)

Mgt O Connor  17:14  

Yeah, because sometimes I think people think that if you're not having children, it almost, you know, they maybe don't always think that there'll be other people in your life. And, and obviously, there will, so that's important. So that connection with wider family and friends, you have the time to do that, and to engage with them in different ways.

Kym Kenny  17:33  

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, and even with, with some of our friends that have kids, like I mean, we organize things with them, and, you know, see their kids, they're going to bed, we have our night with them or whatever, you know, so it kind of hasn't, hasn't really changed things that way. Like we kind of I suppose we'd organize a lot more things than we would than other people. Because I suppose we've the house, it's free, we've the free time, we've kind of booked the dates and and things like that, which is good for us. I suppose it just gives us a chance to kind of be around more of our friends and family. And the freedom as well like.

Mgt O Connor  18:08  

And, yeah, I was gonna ask, does it does it come up as an issue with other people? Is it something you talk about?

Rick Kenny  18:15  

We had this conversation just just coming home in the car today, like because I would very rarely come across people asking me do I have kids? You know, as a man, and I'm just like, obviously, I listened to one or two of your podcasts and I was amazed at the kind of women coming across this constantly, Jesus Christ.,I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be asked from one end of the week or month to the other. So it's a totally different situation for Kim, you know,

Mgt O Connor  18:40  

Does it come up for you Kym?

Kym Kenny  18:42  

Yeah, yeah. It has done. I mean, if people you know, especially after you first get married, oh when's the baby coming, when, and it's such a personal thing, and at the start, it was kind of, I would have felt awkward at the start, and you're kind of going Jesus yeah, I don't know. You know, cuz, of course, I need to come to that decision myself as well, to be 100% sure. And afterwards, once we kind of finalized things, and we made our decision, people would ask, when are you having.. any news? When's the baby coming? I said, no, not having kids, you know, it's not for me. Aah really, you know, and I'm like, yeah, really! I'm quite happy with my decision, don't look so sad. 

Mgt O Connor  19:20  

You got the head tilt (laughter)

Kym Kenny  19:25  

Yeah! And kind of stuff like or, you know, ah you'll change your mind, you will. And it's like, you know, trust me, I've been through it, it's fine.

Mgt O Connor  19:34  

Are you still getting that at this stage, would some people still say that?.

Kym Kenny  19:37  

No, not as much now, I think anyone who knows me and knows us as a couple wouldn't, they'd know us now that they know themselves and they're fine, you know, but you will get the odd person have you got kids, no, some people will kind of push for oh how come or you know, I noticed others will kind of just accept it. I suppose there was a funny one actually, a couple of months ago inside in work, I had a woman in, she would have been in her late 60s now. And her daughter doesn't have kids either. And she's living in the states. And she said she's happy out, you know, they have their cats and their careers, happy out with life. And I said, I don't either. And she said, isn't it great that now we have the choice? And I was kind of going I do have the choice now, but I suppose maybe, you know, people didn't for a long time, you know, and it was an eye opener. She said fair play, and it was kind of nice, she goes fair play. She said, for following, you know, yourself and your truth. You know, she said fair play to you, I find that very admirable. And that was probably one of the first people ever that was supportive and from that generation, as well you know.

Mgt O Connor  20:46  

It's really nice to hear. Yeah. Because you'd almost be ready, you know, with the the explanation. And then when somebody is actually nice about it, it's like, oh, okay. Okay, and you feel comfortable? Or is it ever difficult to just say, yeah, we're not, you know, we're choosing not to have children? Is it, have you gotten more comfortable with it? Or is it something you give much thought to?

Rick Kenny  21:12  

I don't think I've ever said those words. I don't think, you know, somebody would say I thought you had kids. No, you know and that's it, you know, it's not something I get into, you know what I mean? And either now that maybe that's not the best way to approach it, but that's the way it seems to go. It seems to go. 

Mgt O Connor  21:31  

You're not pushed on it as much you don't think?

Rick Kenny  21:35  

No, so it's it's pretty natural at this point to me, most of the people that know me know I don't have kids anyway, and it doesn't come up. And so if I don't know, maybe I just don't interact with as much public as Kim does, either. So yeah.

Kym Kenny  21:49  

I suppose yeah, I'm the same. I'm just kind of like, you know, if anyone asks, no, I don't have kids, or if we were chatting now like, especially with where I work with people coming in, and it's like, you know, the kids in school, and I don't have kids, but how do you find it yourself? And people, I suppose, I don't know, maybe I'm not putting it out there in a way anymore that I'm worried about it anymore. So maybe I don't pick up on it as much, but you know, people are chatting away about it in a sense, you know, and it's not, it's not difficult or anything now, no, definitely.

Mgt O Connor  22:20  

Would you kind of regard it as, like an important aspect of your lives or your identity, or do you  kind of just accept it as one part now, with lots of other parts of who ye are? 

Rick Kenny  22:31  

Like, I wouldn't identify as a person who doesn't have kids, if you want to identify, I don't think about it, but I'm obviously certain that it impacts on my life, because my life is the way it is, and kids aren't involved in it. So I mean, it is, as I said earlier, I'm unbelievably happy with my life, but I don't identify as a childless person, you know? 

Mgt O Connor  22:51  

Yeah. Okay.

Kym Kenny  22:53  

Yeah, I'm the same. It's, it's just a part of my life, like, I have dogs or I have a house or whatever

Rick Kenny  22:59  

Yeah yeah

Kym Kenny  22:59  

You know, it just, it doesn't define me. Definitely not.

Mgt O Connor  23:02  

Okay. And I suppose another horrible question that people often ask is, you know, what will you do when you get older? And who's going to look after you and these ideas of legacy? Do you think about that at all? Do you plan ahead?

Rick Kenny  23:15  

I would hope that Kim will look after me (laughter)! And yeah obviously, at some point, geez, we think we'll go down like the Titanic, the two in the bed like, you know, holding each other's hands (laughter). That may not happen. But like, I mean, if it does, we will cross that bridge when we come to it, and yeah, nobody can say where they'll be or who, where their circle will be or if they get old. So I mean, I just, I find it ridiculous. people having kids in the hope they will look after them. These people could be on the far side of the world or not around themselves. It's just silly.

Kym Kenny  23:50  

Yeah. 

Mgt O Connor  23:50  

Yeah absolutely.

Rick Kenny  23:51  

It's just, it's not thought through. It's just a response that people have, you know,

Mgt O Connor  23:56  

Okay. Yeah. Again, that assumption that that's just how it will work out.

Kym Kenny  23:59  

Yeah, yeah, I suppose. And for me, I suppose ideally, I'd be in some nice retirement home in the sun (laughter). Wishful thinking, but you never know. Like, I mean, and legacy behind, I suppose with the career path, I suppose I'm going on now, I suppose if I can leave something behind in that. And maybe, you know, make somebody's day that little bit better. I'm happy enough with that. And just generally being a decent person, you know, I don't think about it other than that really..

Rick Kenny  24:29  

I don't know why these people think they're gonna have this generational legacy. Like, you know, there's nobody conquering worlds here. Like, you know, what I mean, I mean, obviously, I think people who create, like, whether that be musicians or artists or whatever, they have far more of a legacy than the person who has grandkids and then they're forgotten about, you know. I'm not trying to some harsh or overly pragmatic, like, but it is, I mean, it's the creative people on the planet will have legacy I feel.

Mgt O Connor  24:55  

I saw a quote yesterday, which said that nobody knows who Shakespeare's children are, which I thought was good. Yeah so that matches your point. It's interesting. Yeah. Okay, so you're not getting too caught up in in that (laughter). Yeah. And, okay. And in terms of advice to other people, so if there's couples out there who are unsure, or maybe are in different positions on this topic, could you give advice to them on how to approach it maybe?

Kym Kenny  25:31  

I think, I suppose, you know, for one, know that you have a choice. And I think that's hugely important. And I think, you know, some people don't think that they have a choice or it's like, you know, or, you know, the parents, they want grandchildren, or all my friends are having kids and stuff. But I suppose to really look within yourself and ask yourself, do I want kids? And what are my reasons for wanting kids? You know, and the side of it is as coming from a couple, you know, to talk about it together, and to, you know, find out if you're on the same page, you know, and if it's what you both want. And if you do, absolutely work away (laughter), you know. If you don't then you know, to just look at it, why don't you, why do you kind of think, you know, and ask yourself the questions, because, you know, we do only have one life, and that's the way I look at it for me, I have one life, this is my life to live, it's my way to live it, you know, and if that's with ten children, absolutely fine. And if it's with 10 cats and dogs, that's absolutely fine, too. You know, just to kind of, you know, ask yourself, if it's what you want, and know that you have a choice.

Mgt O Connor  26:37  

Brilliant, thanks.

Rick Kenny  26:37  

This is my advice, and it's coming from being a man. And I think, you know, my, the absolute worst part of my makeup in the past was just completely thinking that everything would be grand, and it'll all work out, and thinking autopilot was the way to go. You know, things can happen. And decisions can be made without your conscious input. And then you're done, do you know what I mean, I just think, actually be aware of this decision, because I think it's probably one of the most important ones you'll make, and genuinely think about it, you know, and talk about it, obviously, with your partner, but even for yourself to get started in the situation, as a man to start thinking about it, because..it's a big one, I think.

Mgt O Connor  27:22  

Yeah. That's brilliant advice. And do you think it's important to bring it up quite early? Sometimes people are not sure how soon is too soon to bring it up, with like a partner, do you think just

Rick Kenny  27:34  

I wouldn't be doing it on the first date, like, (laughter) you know, or the first few ones, but I mean, if you get to know the person and you think, geez, I see a future with this person, so maybe bring it up early days. Like Kim would have been very vocal about it early days,  you know it's not for me. And I thought well it's not really for me now either but we'll see how it goes..

Kym Kenny  27:53  

Yeah, I suppose. That's when we got together. But I think a lot of people meet each other on Tinder and things like that nowadays, for the social side of it. And you have a little history. I'd be honest about it, I'd put it up, no, it's not for me, you know, in a way, it's kind of, you know, a process of elimination, if you are looking for somebody online, or, you know, you want somebody with the same kind of, you know, values and beliefs and whatever. You know, I think that's important as well. But I would, I'd put it out there fairly soon. Because I mean, if it's something that you don't want, or one person does and the others, you know, it kind of..

Rick Kenny  28:23  

It probably depends on your age profile when you meet as well. I mean, if you're in your 20s, early 20s, its probably not a pressing conversation to be having. And you might not even know your own mind at that point or you might be very strong minded.

Kym Kenny  28:35  

Yeah, (laughter)

Rick Kenny  28:36  

One or the other. (laughter) But like I said, age profile and life experience determines that conversation I'd say.

Mgt O Connor  28:44  

That's true. That's true. Okay. Yeah, I think that's really sound advice. Absolutely. Okay, is there anything else you'd like to share or bring up?

Kym Kenny  28:57  

I suppose not really, I think I kind of, you know, you might hear some people, you know, famous people and things, having kids or not having kids or choosing career paths or whatever, we're we're successful, career wise, and that, but it's not everything to us, you know, we love our social life. We love traveling, we kind of love downtime as well, and stuff, you know. I think, you know, we're just normal people, you know, no different to anybody else's neighbors and stuff out there. And, you know, it's okay to kind of not be the same as everybody else or do the same thing. I think that's important. 

Mgt O Connor  29:33  

Yeah yeah. And there can be so much pressure can't they're, on so many different aspects and on this one in particular. Yeah. So yeah, and even even that thing of it doesn't have to be this big, spectacular life. You can live your normal life and enjoy that very much, which you seem to be doing. And that's, that's okay, too. So sometimes people feel under pressure that if I'm not having kids, then I need to go off and do this huge thing. Almost to justify it, so ye obviously don't feel any need to do that. You're just happy doing what you're doing.

Kym Kenny  30:05  

Yeah. And I suppose it allows me, allows me to go back to college now and do this degree and you know, look at life differently as well. And even with all that work, it's still not for me, and I still, you know, it's kind of the more I work on myself, the more I'm realizing God, no, this isn't, you know, it keeps reinforcing it as the time goes by, you know, and I think, yeah, this, you have a lot of options and things and I suppose it's important for people to kind of look at all those things that are out there as well, you know, and it's, you know, it's a.. life can be a little  basket full of surprises, if you want it to be, you know (laughter)

Mgt O Connor  30:41  

That sounds nice! (laughter) 

Rick Kenny  30:47  

Aaw! (laughter)

Mgt O Connor  30:48  

Okay, Rick, is there anything else you'd add in? 

Rick Kenny  30:52  

Oh there comes a dog! Like, I think, you know, we always have been, as Kym says, the stereotype of if you don't have kids, you must be must be a high flying career person, whatever, like, we've always worked to live, rather than living to work like, and I can't wait to get out of the office, you know, and I can't wait to get home. And if I want to sit down and watch a box, I'll I do that. Or if I want to go for a run, I do that. You know, you don't, I suppose if people feel the pressure, oh I'll have kids now so I don't have to do that career thing. You don't have to do either. Yeah, just relax, you know, figure out what you want to do. Don't feel under pressure to make a decision or go one way, extreme or the other, you know.

Mgt O Connor  31:32  

So it's really about coming back to yourself, isn't it, so trying to make enough space away from the noise of everything else to figure what is really important to you. What are the values? What are the things you just want to, I suppose, both achieve and enjoy, It does not have to be all achievement based, yeah,

Kym Kenny  31:48  

Yeah, absolutely.

Rick Kenny  31:49  

A nice balance. Yeah.

Mgt O Connor  31:51  

It sounds really freeing. Like, just looking at the two of you, you're glowing (laughter) You're full of energy. So it sounds like even though you're working hard, but you're also enjoying yourselves. Like, you're obviously getting a lot out of what you're doing as well, which sounds lovely.

Kym Kenny  32:05  

Yeah, absolutely. No, but to be fair, like, I mean, I do love my life. And we're not perfect. We're a couple, we have our ups and downs, the same as everybody else, you know, but I do love my life. And I wouldn't, there's not much I would change in my life to be fair, you know, in that, you know, going forward, yes, careers and things like that. But outside of all of that thing, I kind of love my home life as well. It's important to me. 

Mgt O Connor  32:31  

That's a fantastic thing to be able to say and to genuinely mean (laughter), that's good!

Brilliant. Well, look, thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing the process with us and I'm sure it'll be helpful to other people. So thanks a million. 

Rick Kenny  32:47  

No worries, thanks.

Kym Kenny  32:48  

Thanks Margaret.

Mgt O Connor  32:58  

Thanks very much to my guests for taking part and to you for listening. I would love to hear your feedback and any suggestions for other topics you would like to see covered in this series. I would also love to build a community of like minded people, so please follow the 'Are Kids For Me' pages on Facebook and Instagram if you want to find out more on this topic. I look forward to hearing from you and watch you for the next episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai