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Boundless Body Radio
The Plant Free MD Dr. Anthony Chaffee Returns Again! 534
Think you know all there is to know about plant-based diets and their benefits? Prepare to have those beliefs turned upside-down as we dive deep into the world of human nutrition with Dr. Anthony Chaffee.
A noted neurosurgeon, Dr. Chaffee has spent years researching the optimal nutritional habits for athletic performance and overall health. Together, we tease apart the common misconceptions about plant-based diets and take a hard look at the defense mechanisms of plants that could potentially be doing us harm.
As we continue our thought-provoking conversation, we turn our attention to the Blue Zones - areas said to be associated with high life expectancy and predominantly plant-based diets. But is all as it seems? We're shaking up conventional wisdom by exploring the Seventh-Day Adventist Church's significant influence on promoting plant-based diets. Dr. Chaffee and other experts challenge the status quo, offering fresh perspectives and debunking popular myths about nutrition.
From the science of diet, we shift gears to a human story that brings it all home. Meet Maggie, an inspiring 82-year-old rancher who defies age and conventional wisdom about health. Without any medications or supplements, she continues to live an active, vibrant life, raising questions about the interconnectedness of nutrition, agriculture, and society. The challenges she faces with land and property rights in Canada take our discussion beyond the plate and into the larger landscape of food politics. A fascinating episode awaits you, filled with debates, insights, and inspiration that will make you reconsider everything you thought you knew about diet and nutrition.
Find Dr. Chaffee at-
YT- Anthony Chaffee MD
Podcast- The Plant Free MD Podcast
IG- anthonychaffeemd
TW- @anthony_chaffee
Patreon- Dr Anthony Chaffee, MD
Special love to-
The Plant Free MD Podcast Episode with Maggie White! Can you believe she's 82?!?
Givesendgo.com/pleasehelpmaggie
The Peak Human Podcast with Vegan Cardiologist Dr. Joel Kahn
The Carnivore Decathlete Champion Ryan Talbot!
Find Boundless Body at-
Hello and welcome to another episode of Boundless Body Radio. I'm your host, casey Ruff, and today we have another amazing guest to reintroduce to you. Now. The one and only Dr Anthony Chafee is a returning guest on our show. Be sure to check out his first two appearances on Boundless Body Radio on episodes 261 and 332, which were both some of our most popular episodes ever recorded.
Speaker 1:Dr Chafee is an American medical doctor specializing in neurosurgery who, over the span of 20 years, has researched the optimal nutritional habits for athletic performance and health. He is an all-American rugby player and former professional athlete in both England and America. Dr Chafee has dedicated many years and a large part of his professional practice to the study and education of diet and nutrition and personally practices a fully carnivorous diet to this day with amazing results. He began his university education, studying molecular and cellular biology, with a minor in chemistry at the University of Washington, seattle, at the age of 15, which culminated in attaining his MD from the Royal College of Surgeons. He currently resides in Perth, australia, where he specializes in neurosurgery and does private consultations and clinics and functional medicine and nutrition.
Speaker 1:He is the host of the wildly successful Plant Free MD podcast. He has an amazing book club hosted by our dear friend and former podcast guest, olivia Quaggia, which you can find on Patreon. He's also somebody I am very fortunate to consider a great friend, dr Anthony Chafee. What an awesome pleasure it is to welcome you back to Boundless Body Radio.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, thank you very much for having me. It's great to see you.
Speaker 1:It's such an honor to see you. I've been able to meet you in person, which has been awesome twice now. I met you in San Diego when we were both attending the Symposium for Metabolic Health, which was amazing. The more surprising one was seeing you at Low Carb Denver, which I was not expecting. You were not on the list of presenters, somebody had just got done presenting and then they did the panel discussion. I was walking down the aisle to take a quick break from the conference and I look over and I see this tall tan dude and I literally did a triple take. I looked and I'm like no. I looked again and I'm like was that.
Speaker 1:No, I looked again and I'm like holy shit, it's Anthony Chafee. So cool, it's great to meet you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it was good. The Denver conference was great. I hadn't planned to talk there. I was going to moderate some of the panels but I just didn't know if I would actually be able to make it there. I didn't know if I'd be able to get the time off and all that stuff. So it was very last minute that I was actually able to go. So I just went there as an observer. But yeah, it was great. It was a great conference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really was Not an easy schlep for you to decide to come back to America. It's literally like around the world, isn't it like one of the furthest places from us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. I mean, it's exactly on the opposite side of the world, so it's far away, as sort of anything is, from Perth. But it was fine because I wasn't just going just for that conference. I had a number of different events to go do and also wanted to see my family and some friends and things like that. So I sort of rolled it into like a bigger trip and I was there for a few weeks and that was great.
Speaker 2:I had some other interviews, like I was on the podcast with oh God, I'm just completely blank. Anyway, I did like a number of in-person podcasts with Mark Bell Jesus, why can't I not remember that? So I was on the Mike Bell power project on that, which was great. That was great. He invited me down to Sacramento and so I was down there on his podcast and, yeah, just had a great great chat and was able to see my uncle who's down there. He's down sort of in that area and yeah, just bounced around, saw friends and family and got some work stuff done at the same time. So it was a good trip.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Yeah, good for you. I love that podcast. By the way, it's one of my wife's favorite as well. The power project Really really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Very cool. Well, I would like to talk to you today about some of the recent events that you've been involved with. You've been very busy and done some very cool things recently. Before we do, just in case somebody has been living under a rock can you tell the listener who you are and how you got involved with what you do now, which is not only neurosurgery but also working with people on the convoordat?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I've always been interested in medicine and in human nutrition as well. It just goes hand in hand with health. You know, if you're not eating the right things, you're not going to be healthy. It's very simple as that. And so I always played sports, I always liked sports and always wanted to excel in athletics, and so I was interested in nutrition and eating the right way and all that stuff. You don't really think about it too much. And then I was learning okay, you're supposed to eat this and you're supposed to do that, but I wasn't as focused on it and I didn't realize just how big of an impact it has on your health and your athletic performance especially.
Speaker 2:But I taking biology and botany and cancer biology and all these different classes and we're just learning that. You know we evolved as garner wars. We're only eating meat, and plants have defense, chemicals and that's how they defend themselves. This is ubiquitous throughout the entire plant kingdom. That's why there is a plant kingdom. They haven't been completely eaten away to extinction because they have defenses and even though they're stationary and they're just a sitting duck and pray for all bugs and insects and animals that would want to eat them, they don't die. They actually do very well, and that's because they have these internal defenses, most of which are chemical, most of which are toxic, poison sort of defenses. But there's others as well, and plants make about a million different chemicals. Most of those are to defend themselves against predation. And just learning all this and learning how toxic plants were and I finally had a professor who was just instilling this in us and my cancer biology class and talking about with carcinogens and everything like that that were in plants and normal plants, not in the pesticides, in the plants themselves, because that's how they survive and so pesticides also, insects can't eat them, but they make pesticides so that insects and animals can't eat them and so they actually make a lot more than that. And so then the pesticides we spray on them. And even then I was just like, well, but the vegetables are still good for you though, right, and my professor just sort of looked at us and he just gave us a funny look and said you know, I don't eat salads, I don't eat vegetables, I don't let my kids eat vegetables. Plants are trying to kill you. So I was like, right, screw plants.
Speaker 2:And I just stopped and my health improved, my athletic performance improved dramatically, but even then I still didn't attribute it to necessarily that I stopped drinking at the same time during the rugby season and I sort of attributed it to that. I'm like, wow, I feel so much better, and of course that makes a huge difference. But I sort of thought it was the drinking. And it wasn't until years later that I realized that there was this five year period that I just felt bulletproof, like it's just a superhuman, and I wasn't drinking during the rugby season after that, but I never felt like that. So I was like I didn't know what that was, I didn't know how I lost that and I chalked it up to age Maybe I wasn't approaching myself as hard, even though I was and I just didn't know about it. I just didn't know what happened.
Speaker 2:And then, when I was in my late 30s, I was 38, just turned 38. And I started to get my college information and said, no, you know, humans actually just are carnivores as a species. It's just what we evolved on. One of the immutable laws of biology, which is a hard science, is laws of adaptation. If your species has been exposed to something for millions of years, then you are going to adapt to it, and so if we've been eating meat for millions of years, then we're obviously adapted to it, well adapted to it, and we only started introducing plants and incorporating plants in our diet very recently, 10,000 years, since we've eaten plants into a large degree in places that have had agriculture. It's very little before that, if any, especially like in the Arctic Circle during the ice ages.
Speaker 2:What plants are there to eat? There are none. You eat animals, and so we are well adapted to eating meat. We are not very well adapted to eating plants, and plants have defense chemicals. Animals have defensive characteristics, kinetic defenses. They can run away, they can fight you, they have horns, they have teeth, they have claws. They can physically fight back or run away or hide. Plants can't. They're just sitting in there, right. So different defenses. So once you get an animal, you can eat it pretty safely. You know something that might have a poison sack or something like that, or certain organs may be something you need to avoid, but the meat is generally fine. Not the same with plants, and so that's just.
Speaker 2:Something that I've just come to realize is that humans are carnivores.
Speaker 2:That's the kind of animal we eat, and we're adapted to eating meat.
Speaker 2:There's nothing in meat that's dangerous to us, and there are a lot of things dangerous to us in plants and we are not adapted to them.
Speaker 2:And then I started thinking about that from the view of a doctor and everything just started slotting into place. Everything made sense about why this massive rise in the prevalence of chronic diseases over the last 50 years of the last century. Certain things that just didn't exist a century ago, now they're one of the mainstays in modern medicine, like Alzheimer's and heart disease. These things just weren't even recognized as diseases all that long ago, not very long ago. Now they're the main killers now, the main afflictions that we come across. So I think that that's directly related to eating an inappropriate diet for our species, and that's what I want to do. I want to get people aware of that and so that they can eat a species-appropriate diet and they can be well and they don't have to have these illnesses and sickness, they don't have to be beholden to the multi-trillion dollar food industry and the multi-trillion dollar pharmaceutical industry. That they can just live their life and keep their money for themselves and doing things that make them happy and have a long, healthy, happy life. That's my goal.
Speaker 1:Dude, that's awesome. I love that. I think I've told you about one of the kiddos that I train. He's like 15 years old, he does motocross at a really high level and he was texting me earlier this week about plants and he was like remind me again what are the harms of plants. You could tell some adult was pressing him on this topic and I was like, well, plants can be toxic in different ways. There's a few chemicals like oxalates and lectins and all kinds of phytochemicals that they have, and it can be harmful in different ways. And I sent him our original episode that you and I did, where you explained this really well. You could tell this adult was saying give me 10 reasons why plants are really bad for you.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, ok, I'm not going to take the time to fight somebody through a 15-year-old kid about the harms of plants. But here's the episode. We did have this guy watch it. It's an hour long, it'll be fine. He literally text back and said the guy said that there's tons of people out there making videos and he can find different videos of people talking about the benefits of plants. And I'm just like this guy didn't even take the time to consider the content. Listen to you. You're a neurosurgeon who's been in, basically, college since you were age 15. He won't even take the time to watch the video and it's like that's how far we drifted away from what you're explaining, which is our natural birthright, which is eating a species' appropriate diet yeah, Well, and that's the thing too, I can find somebody that says something else.
Speaker 2:Great, watch them too. Then watch me, or watch someone else, and then compare the arguments to see how they stack up. Because people will say, well, there's all these plants and they're so great, and there's this vitamin and mineral and isn't that wonderful? And I agree, there are those vitamins and minerals, that's lovely, but there's also these poisons, so that's not so lovely. You get the bad with the good and you can't just cherry pick one and say, oh, this is the only one I want to focus on, no, no, you have to look at the whole thing and then you look at well, more plants are better People, they eat. More fruits and vegetables are better. Okay, which fruits and vegetables? Right, I mean even vegans. I mean, that's the thing. There's all these different hills that the vegans try to die on. They try to no, no, no, no, no. Well, this is it. And they try to fight and they go for a while there.
Speaker 2:When I first started talking about this stuff, there was this rank denial that plants had any sort of defense mechanisms, and then it was just like one of them happened to just open a botany book and go oh shit, okay, all right, well, okay, yeah, well, so we're dead ass wrong about that. But you know they try to make other excuses and there's a well, okay, yeah, they're poisons, but you know, let's just pretend that they're, you know, beneficial somehow. You know, and you know that's obviously garbage. And now they're going to you know the whole evolutionary argument where it's just like, well, yeah, well, yes, yes, we evolved eating meat and no, we're not herbivores, but that doesn't mean that it's actually good for us. Like, no, no, that's exactly what that means. That's exactly what that means. You know that's a wall, that's an immutable law of biology. Is that a? That adaptation? And there's so many other pieces of information as well to back that up. But you know the the fact remains that these defense chemicals exist and you can look them up. They're readily available for people, anyone to see.
Speaker 2:Now people say, okay, well, yes, there are these defense chemicals, but the ones that I want you to eat, and all these, because plants have these defense chemicals, which ones are safe to eat? How much of each one? Which ones do you need to get nutrition? You can't get full nutrition. You cannot get full nutrition from a vegan diet. You cannot Right. So first of all, that's an inappropriate diet, that's a bad diet if you can't even get basic nutrients from it.
Speaker 2:How can any nutritionist argue for a diet that is lacking in nutrients? That makes no sense. They should lose their license at that point. I mean it makes no deal, lose their nutritionist card anyway. If you're arguing for a diet that is deficient in nutrients, you should not be allowed to give nutritional advice. That's insane. But now they're saying well, you should eat plants. More plants equals better. Okay, but which plants Right? You can't just say more plants, more antiplot, more hemlock, more nightshade, more tobacco, more heroin, which bloody plants, right? And then you talk to these same people.
Speaker 2:And this is part of the debate that I had with the vegan guy, which was sort of a couple of weeks ago. It hasn't come out yet, but it was a bit frustrating, because this guy just bounces around from topics and he tries to nitpick little things on the things you talk about, but then leaves glaring holes on his arguments, right. So he'll try to nitpick on the just the littlest things here, which aren't necessarily valid anyway. But then he'll say, well, look at this Inuit thing and they have heart disease. And it's like, okay, is that with Inuit that are only eating a meat-based diet? Like, oh well, yeah, it was like where did it say that? It doesn't say that anywhere in the damn paper, so why are you bringing it up? That's not relevant and you know other sorts of things of that nature.
Speaker 2:What was another one that they did? Yeah, he said something about well, look at these animals in the zoo and they get these diseases and they get cancer, and the most cancer actually goes in the animals that are eating meat. It's like, okay, are those ones only eating their natural diet or are they being fed other things? Well, I mean, presumably, yeah, they probably got. Where does it say that? Where does it say they're only eating their natural diet? Like it doesn't. So, like, again, this study is useless. I don't care what happens to zoo animals that are fed crap. You know, I'm worried about what happens when they eat their normal diet and proper conditions, and also, even if they are getting some small prevalence of illness on their natural diet, well, feed them kibble and see what happens. It's going to get way worse, right. So you know it's a bit silly, but you know one of the things that he was talking about.
Speaker 2:He was trying to nitpick this study with the Maasai, which was a book really, it was like 120 pages long with the Maasai and Aki Kuyu back in the 1930s. Because the thing is, all these studies, they compare against the norm. The norm is sick. Norm is people eating a standard processed food diet which is processed carbs and sugar and plants. Right, it's plant food. It's processed plant food, not processed meat. It's processed plant food and majority of calories that Americans get and Westerners get are plant based. So we are already plant based. Well, we need to go plant based. We are plant based, we are plant based. That's the problem. And so they go, you know.
Speaker 2:So these things say oh, more fruits and vegetables, okay, well, more fruits and vegetables means you're replacing the processed grains and carbs and sugars and seed oils and you're eating more whole food. Okay, and you get a benefit. I'm shocked Also, you get healthy user bias and you improve in a lot of other ways as well, and there was a study with 400,000 people in the UK that showed that vegetable eating, fruits and vegetables didn't actually benefit from a cardiovascular disease rate. Now, when accounting for healthy user bias and all the different sorts of confounders, and they found okay, well, maybe there's an improvement in all cause mortality. But again, how much of this is based on confounders and healthy user bias and people just doing things that are more healthy for them. And so you know, if you want to actually look at what's better excluding meat or excluding plants or whatever a whole food meat based diet with a whole food plant based diet that's what you need to look at.
Speaker 2:We don't have studies looking at that, except for this one with the aki kyu and the masai, because the masai largely eat meat, milk and blood and aki kyu largely eat plants or largely vegetarian. They'll have some milk, but I mean barely any. Out of a population of 750,000 people. Back in the late 1920s they estimated that they only would produce about 100 gallons of milk, right, so it was just nothing right. And so they have a bit of meat every now and then and some things. But they found that the aki kyu were much less healthy, had horrible development, were much shorter on average, five inches shorter than the males of the masai tribe had worse teeth, worse dentition, worse health, diabetes and bone deformities and so many other health issues. They were 50% weaker than the male aki kyu, and the list goes on and on and on and on and on. And the females were also less healthy.
Speaker 2:One guy who tried to critique that on TikTok. He said that actually the females of the aki kyu tribe were the healthiest out of all the groups. That's complete and utter garbage. They were healthier than the male aki kyu because they ate a different diet. The males ate more grains and millet and all that sort of stuff and the females ate more leafy greens and things as well. So they had a more diverse plant-based diet and they were more healthy as a result of that. But they were more healthy than the male of their own tribe. They were not healthier than the females, and the healthiest of all were the male warrior cast in, the masai, who ate the most meat of all of them. That was completely wrong. And the interesting part about that study is that the masai and the aki kyu live in the same area, so they intermarry and so they're genetically similar. Now the author said well, we don't know how long they've been here, we don't know how long they've been intermarrying, we don't know how far back that goes. Fair enough, but they have been in that area for quite some time and they're both living in the same area and the thing is is that when you have people coming over from the aki kyu into the masai tribe and masai over to the aki kyu, there is enough going back and forth that that should start leveling the playing field. But you have these genetics going there and getting poor nutrition and then that's stunting their growth or increasing their growth. No-transcript.
Speaker 2:He was trying to say that, well, that doesn't count as a plant-based diet. Well, that's not the plant-based diet. I would argue for it. It's like well, no, look, the studies that you're touting, that say that a plant-based diet and more fruits and vegetables are good and less meat is good and more plants are good, are very vague. They're not saying your diet that you picked, that's perfect vegan diet with all these supplements that you want. That's not what these studies say. These studies are saying whatever plants you want to eat, as long as you eat more plants and less meat, that's what benefits people. Well, here we go. We have these population studies with hundreds of thousands of people and looking at their overall health and development, and they found that, wow, actually, less meat and more plants is really detrimental to people's health and development.
Speaker 2:I just thought more plants and less meat was a problem. I thought that more meat was going to make you more sick, and it didn't. It does the exact opposite. There's always these little ways of trying to change, move the goalposts and change what we're actually arguing about, but that's always how it is. You're going to get these people out there. My advice to your client is just don't worry about it. Who gives a shit? That guy doesn't want to actually improve his health.
Speaker 1:He doesn't have to Fine, fine Right.
Speaker 2:If you do what you do, you do your thing and just let him do his thing, and that's fine. If he doesn't even want to look at the evidence, then he deserves to stay in ignorance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly what I told him. I'm like look, don't you think it's funny that the guy didn't even take the time to open up the video and watch five minutes of it? Obviously, he already had a response for you without even looking at anything. I recently heard Dr Joel Kahn An excuse anyway. Yeah, it's an excuse, exactly right.
Speaker 1:I recently heard Dr Joel Kahn on a pro meat podcast and he's a vegan doctor and he was making all of his points and he's almost like pointing out all the contradictions in the studies that he's citing. Like he's citing the Ornish studies and he's like, yeah, well, they changed their breathing and meditation and they stopped smoking and they did yoga and again, like breath work and meditation, they also did more plants and they lived for longer. That based on you know the study that they did with a very limited amount of people. He's telling you that, as he's supporting that study and is like, okay, are you pro plant based or you pro yoga? Like you can't tell the difference. Just quitting smoking is a huge deal. Like the evidence that they cite is so weak and is so poor and they know it and they cite it and tell you that, which brings me to a debate that you did.
Speaker 1:Specifically, we did an episode with Aranda Wicramasingha, who lives in the UK, who attended the conference that you were at, where we actually I will say ubiquitously across the board, in the carnival world, this is the debate that we wanted to see, I heard it was really kind. Nobody fought. They were like well, I'm going to be blessed, you know rotten tomatoes of each other. It was a really cool debate and you were a part of it. I know you had to attend virtually. You couldn't make it there in person, kind of a last minute thing, but I would love to hear your experience. What was that like and what were the arguments for a plant based diet and were they convincing at all?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I thought it was very good. I mean, I think that's exactly, you're exactly right. I mean we should be able to speak, you know, cordially to each other. That's not what a lot of these end up being, which is why there's sort of no point in having them. This is just a waste of time, you know. It's just people are being just rude and childish and it's just like well, why are we even doing this? Like I have no interest in talking to someone if they're being childish about these things. And so this was nice.
Speaker 2:These people had mixed opinions and I was myself and Sean Baker leading up, you know, team meat and other people that were sort of in the spectrum of eating more plants to full on vegan, vegetarian. But everyone was very good. We were able to go back and forth, you know, give our spiel, make our case and then sort of discuss the finer points of different things. I was a Dr Chitty who made up the main sort of vegan side of things. There's another gentleman who was I forget his name, but he was a really interesting guy Actually. I thought he had a lot of good points, but he wasn't like 100% vegan. He was just saying there's probably benefits to eating plants. He's like, hey, there's good things here, let's not just throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I, you know I have a lot of time for that sort of discussion, you know that's totally fair. Chitty, you know, made some good points as well. I mean, he works in this sort of a metabolic health practice and helps people and is getting people, you know, improving their health in a number of ways. But I didn't find his arguments too compelling. One of his main pieces of evidence was talking about the China study, which I don't think is very compelling and has a lot of benefits. And there are other people that have read the whole series of studies and China studies and things like that and actually sort of broken down the data and looked at it and actually found that they're actually hiding things and omitting major, major factors that really changed the story. And so you know, people can look that up. It's sort of too long to get into but and I wouldn't do it justice, but you know that was that was you know it's like.
Speaker 2:It's like when someone comes and says, well, I mean the blue zone, so therefore plant-based, you know it was sort of that sort of thing and it's just like well, there are major problems with the blue zones. You know, I just just did a podcast with Bill Schindler and he was in the blue zones and he was studying these people and how they ate and how they lived and they were nothing close to plant-based, they were nearly entirely well, they were definitely meat-based, whole animal-based, and they ate. He said that they were eating more meat than he did at home and he's always been big into meat. And then after you know, after a week there, they said hey, we're going to have meat tomorrow. And he was just like what do you mean? We're going to have meat tomorrow? We've been eating more meat than I eat at home. Like, what are you talking about? What they mean by that is they mean they're going to put a whole animal on a spit and spend the whole day barbecuing and hanging out as a community. Wow, right, so that's what they mean.
Speaker 2:So when the blue zones say, well, in Sardinia they only eat meat once a week, they know damn well that they're being misleading. That's a difference in language, it's semantics. They say we only eat meat once a week. Well, they're saying you only eat meat once a week? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we only eat meat once a week. That's what they call that, right?
Speaker 2:So it's a confusion in the language and it's purposefully done by the people doing the blue zones because they know damn well that that's not the case, that that's not what they mean by that, that they predominantly eat meat and once a week they eat a lot of meat, right and so and these people are extremely healthy there are a lot of other factors in that, a lot of other factors. You know I have a strong, tight-knit community. People keep working, they have a goal, they have a purpose in life to keep them going. They're walking up and down a bunch of hills, going to their pastures, going to their herds, going to their animals to tend them every single day and playing with their grandkids and their great grandkids and telling stories and, you know, doing different activities and staying active and being busy and enjoying their life A lot of beneficial things, and at least they're connected. Being plant-based is not one of them, right?
Speaker 2:So that was a major argument, was the China study sort of thing, and going to Loma Linda and seeing these people that were 100 and very healthy and it's like, well, that's great, but there's a lot of issues with the Loma Linda crowd as well and the Adventist studies are pretty biased, very biased as well. So it wasn't anything that I saw any new arguments that I was just like, okay, well, that's interesting, I'll have to look into that and maybe that sort of shakes things around. It was sort of things I'd seen before and I was like, no, we have answers for these. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I heard from Aranda and I would have expected this to begin with that on the Carnivore side the arguments were very careful and logical and had proof and backing behind them, and the arguments for plant-based was more emotional and this really helped my daughter heal this one thing and that's great and I'm so grateful for this, and that's fine, but it's different than facts. It's ironic, too, because just this week we got a comment on a video that you and I did together, where the person making the comment said well, isn't it funny that every study says that eating more plants makes you live longer? And I'm like? I responded. I said that's, that's cool. Like, send me your favorite one. I'm actually talking to Dr Anthony Chafee this week, so I'll I'll just bring it up with him. Like, just send me whatever your favorite one is.
Speaker 1:If all studies said it should be very easy to just come up with you know the best one that you like. And crickets, like I didn't get any, I don't have any to discuss with you today because there was absolutely nothing. And I told him the same thing Like, if you're, if you're basing your you know knowledge of longevity on this new Netflix documentary called live to 100, that's all about the blue zones and Dan Butener and all of this stuff that's already owned by the seven day Adventist. If you're basing your knowledge on that, there's a lot of gaps and we're doing a very specific episode on that coming up soon because it's it's trending on Netflix. It's a top 10 show on Netflix that's highlighting the benefits of the blue zones and it's absolutely ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that's a thing right, because because Dan Butener pushed a plant based agenda and so you know, when I was actually on that on the comment comment thread on the Bill Schindler blue zone thing that I just put out, there was a lady from Okinawa who just said hey, this is, blue zones are crap. I live in Okinawa, I grew up in Okinawa, my grandparents are a hundred and they're very healthy. They mostly eat meat. They like 80% meat, 90% meat and a lot of beef, a lot of pork and chicken and fish. And yes, they eat. They eat plants, but they don't. They don't eat much. It's the majority of what they eat is meat and the majority of what I eat is meat and what my family eats are meat and what all the traditionally long living and the traditional diet of the Okinawans is a lot of meat. It's very meat heavy. So this is not true. I know this, I grew up with this and you know a lot of people were very interested in asking different questions and then you had the sort of the you know the obligatory vegan trolls that tried to ignore everything she said and just say, oh yeah, well, that's not carnivore, that's not 100% carnivore. So I mean, what the hell is this all about? Like, no one's saying it is, no one's saying it has to be. The point is it's not plant based, and so saying that the blue zones are so great because plant based, that's not true, and so you know. It's just showing the actual facts of the matter and also showing that, no, like, eating more meat doesn't make you die young. Right, these people are predominantly eating meat, and if we're very convinced by their longevity and we're impressed by that, well, and we're going to look at their diet, you know, as something that we should model. Well, it's meat based, it's mostly meat, and you know the definition of a hyper carnivore someone gets over 70% of calories from meat. So they're hyper carnivore, right, and so that's actually, you know, pretty telling. But you know they wanted to ignore all that sort of stuff. But that's the thing is that the blue zones were completely misleading, and you know one thing that they did the blue zone that they didn't mention a Hong Kong that has the highest life expectancy on earth. It's more meat per capita than any other.
Speaker 2:You know modern population and the, you know the, the Adventists. Now they say, well, they have a lot of centenarians as well, and they're all plant based. I know a lot of that 70 Adventists and they say, no, that's not true. That's certainly what is pitched and what you're supposed to eat is a lot of plant based. But he said that it's all about 5% of people actually adhere to that. Everyone else just eats normally. You know what they do, also encourage and impress upon their members, is live a clean life, don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, don't have caffeine, don't have nicotine. You know have. You know, get married, have kids, don't have. You know this sort of real seeking life, and you know. So that's. That's again a healthy user bias as a as a population.
Speaker 2:And another population that they fail to recognize as a blue zone are the American Mormons, who sort of adhere to similar restrictions as far as lifestyle is concerned, but don't have the nutritional restrictions that not even a lot of 70 Adventists even adhere to. And they have the exact same life expectancy as as the Adventists. It's exactly the same as well, as last time I checked it was, but it's, you know. If it's not the same, it's very close. And so you know they, they omit these sorts of things.
Speaker 2:And then what Dan Butner did was he actually sold the rights to calling things blue zones to the 70 Adventists, right, tens of dollars. And now you have areas applying to be a blue zone and say, hey, look, we have all these sentinarians are all these people are living a long time, we want to be a blue zone? And and they have to apply to the 70 Adventist church and pay them a bunch of money. And then they decide, hmm, no, we don't like to look at that. You know you don't get the stamp right.
Speaker 2:So this is, this is a political thing. Now, you know, this is like you get stamped as a blue zone. You're the only people that they want they can. Maybe, I don't know, but you know they could easily manipulate that. It's like no, no, no, like this is a cattle, cattle country. Just, we all just eat, like you know, a bunch of meat and steaks and everyone's living to be 110, like, absolutely not, no, we're not giving you a blue zone. But you know, maybe they'll be honest about it, but I have, you know, no, you know no impression that they will, based on on previous behavior that they've done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fort Worth, texas, is one of those cities. I think they pay $6 million to the blue zone project to be accredited. Fort Worth, texas, is not a blue zone, I'm sorry, it's just not. And I heard, yeah, that the amount of money that the Seventh Day Adventist Church bought the blue zones for was like 70 plus million dollars. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:I live here in the Salt Lake Valley. I was Mormon for a lot of my life and I have lived in the Salt Lake Valley for 38 of my 39 years and I can tell you they don't shun meat Like I'm with these people. I've grown up with these people. That's how I grew up and, interestingly, I was actually thinking about this a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1:I wanted to know how much of this plant based message that seems to be so publicized, how much of it is actually pushed in the Seventh Day Adventist Church. I was just like curious, but I don't know any Adventist a pretty small population. So I found the hotline that you could call the Seventh Day Adventist Church to get in touch with some of their people that know like the doctrine, and I just wanted to know, like how much is this pushed? I literally was on the phone for probably 30 minutes making. It was about 12 to 15 different calls that would always end up in either somebody's voicemail or I would hear yeah, let me transfer you, click, hang up. Oh, yeah, let me transfer you, click, hang up. It was the most bizarre thing.
Speaker 1:I finally found some woman receptionist in Reno that I was able to talk to. She was super friendly and I was just like, hey, I'd like just have some like experiential questions to ask you Like, do people talk about this? And she was like like maybe one pastor, if he's really into it, might mention something, but it's not really something I do. I tried to go plant based ones and it really sucked and I didn't like it didn't work for me, so I don't do it anymore. And it's not like a big part of their like actual message that they're teaching their people. You're right, like the people in the Seventh Day Adventist Church don't necessarily follow that. Yet that's what's put on these Netflix documentaries and the Blue Zones as the major thing. It's so ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah that. That that was my impression from. People I know in the Seventh Day Adventist Church told me that almost no one does that. It's like 5% of people are sort of hardcore or stick to the scriptures of LNG White, who was their prophetess, who said that she had a vision from God saying that meat was evil, will cause us lustful feelings and lust is a sin. Therefore, meat is a sin and you have to avoid it. But you know that's not what most people adhere to. And but he said that you know it is promoted. They say like, yeah, yeah, you know from the church, you know that you should do this and all that sort of stuff, but but that not everyone actually does that. You know.
Speaker 2:It is funny too because there are a lot of well, the Seventh Day Adventist Church have had huge influence in nutrition. People should look up Belinda Fetke, f-e-t-t-k-e, and look up her work with on the Seventh Day Adventist Church, because it is absolutely mind-blowing and staggering the influence that they've had over the past 130, 40 years. You know they founded Kellogg's cereal. They founded Sanitarium Foods. They founded the American Nutritional and Dietetics Association. They started, you know, the university programs for nutritional sciences in America. They wrote one of the first textbooks in nutritional sciences, the university level in America in 1925. It's still in print in its most its current edition, right from the beginning 1925, plant-based, plant-based, plant-based, plant-based, plant-based. You have to eat all these plants and they've had people in because they were there at the beginning. They helped found these institutions and so they've had they have very highly placed members. You know there's 22, 23 million members and most of you people just normal great people. But the doctrine from the top down is what it is and has been for a very long time, and so they've had these very highly placed people.
Speaker 2:You know the McGovern report that was heavily influenced and even possibly written by a seventh day Adventist and say oh, meets bad, cholesterol, bad. Oh goodness, gracious me and Dr Pritikin of the Pritikin diet. This was the heart attack diet. You want to get on. This heart disease prevention diet was the Pritikin diet. I mean, this was a household name at my house when I grew up. I knew who Dr Pritikin was. Before I knew who the name of my own doctor was and I was just Dr Pritikin. Oh, no, the Pritikin diet. No, we don't eat this. We don't eat that. He meet, we don't eat this. Okay, all right, I guess. And that was just drilled into my head from infancy.
Speaker 2:And Dr Pritikin was just like just no fat, no fat at all. But it also said no sugar and no this and no that. No fat was no fat. And so that included, like seed oils and things like that. So got rid of the seed oils, got rid of the sugars and whole foods sort of approach to things.
Speaker 2:But he was considered the father of the plant-based diet, because the meat that he was telling you to eat, he's like, okay, yeah, you can have meat, but take ground beef, boil the living hell out of it, get all the fat out of it, then press it and smash it and press it and boil it again, drain out the fat, press it again, boil it, press it, boil it, press it, boil it, press it, the hell is left. Oh my God, there's no flavor left. I mean, fat is long gone, obviously, but everything else is gone too. It just tastes like garbage. And so you're just saying, oh, yeah, you can eat meat, you can eat that meat. I'm like, yeah, no, thanks, I'll do without. And that was the thing.
Speaker 2:He was a professor at Loma Linda Medical Center, the medical school, which is the Seven-Day Adventist Medical School. I was looking at different medical schools. I was living in California and I looked at Loma Linda, which is in California, and it said specifically you must be a member of the Seven-Day Adventist Church in good standing to even apply. Oh, wow, we won't even consider you unless you are in the church. You have to have a letter from your deacon saying what a good guy. And so I was just like, okay, I don't know what that's about, but move on. I was like, well, maybe I can sort of, you know, fudge my way in and maybe I'm interested in the church and try to get a letter or something like that.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, oh, who cares, I haven't even heard of this school before, but I've been wasting my time on it, and so I don't know if you have to be a Seven-Day Adventist member to teach there, but obviously you need to at least be influenced by them. And Pritikin had said that he was heavily influenced by LNG White and read all four books. He had dozens of books. And then Dr Gundry, who I believe taught at Loma Linda as well. I don't know if he's a Seven-Day Adventist either, but he says, okay, don't eat meat, and all these things.
Speaker 2:But he wrote the plant paradox, and that's to me it's just botany. That's what I would have named that botany, right, and but he called the plant paradoxes paradox. We need to eat meat. This is the heavenly food from God, it's like manna from heaven, and obviously we can't eat meat. Meat's evil, meat's shun, meat's a no-no, and so we should just eat plants. But there's this paradox, because they don't want you to eat them and they can kill you and you can get really sick, and so maybe you do it like this, or take this pill or this supplement or whatever, but you should still be plant-based, which is not the conclusion I would have come to after writing that book. It's so silly, right, but again, there's this influence from the Seven-Day Adventist Church. They got into his head too.
Speaker 2:He's a smart guy, he's a cardiothoracic surgeon, I believe, and wrote this book, a very, very accurate and insightful book, talking about how plants do not want you to eat them and they are toxic and you should bloody well avoid them, and then still, because you're sort of in that world, saying no, no, no, but you have to eat plants or this is paradox.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like it's not a paradox at all. Plants are toxic. We're not designed to eat them. We're not adapted to eating them, because we've only been introduced to them very recently, and the plants that we're eating now even more recently, because those didn't even exist 10,000 years ago during the agricultural revolution. These things are brand new, right? So how can we be adapted or designed or benefited optimally by food that did not exist a couple hundred years ago? Some of these things didn't even exist 50 years ago or last year, right? How is that the best thing for us to eat if it didn't even exist last year? That makes no sense. Law of biology is adaptation. We have not had time to adapt to this crap and it's making us sick.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, that's such a good point. I love that All right. Well, you have an amazing podcast. I don't know, first of all, how you have the time to host a podcast. Secondly, I don't know how you find your guests. You find the coolest guests that I've ever heard. Some of them are not like household names, like the dude in Florida who's eating invasive species of iguanas this iguana yeah, what? And he's like, yeah, I'm just like this is food and people don't want this and I'll just grill up these iguanas and eat them. And he's great. He's just like natural carnivore and thriving.
Speaker 1:We talked to Dazzle, who you've hosted on your show also in Canada. He called you the carnivore samurai, which I thought was hilarious. Oh, yeah, yes, so awesome. That's funny. He's great. He completely flipped his health back to good after being plant-based vegan for as long, as he was a long, long time as healthy as ever now being carnivore.
Speaker 1:And you had one guest in particular that absolutely blew me away. So I'm listening to you interview some rancher in the middle of nowhere, canada. Her name's Maggie. She says she was born in 1941, which makes her 82 years old, and she's explaining things. And I always listen to podcasts. I listen to them quick, usually at two times the speed. But even for what I was listening to fast, she was speaking pretty quick, like as fast as I talk, essentially, and I'm like wait a second, like there's no way, just based on this person's voice that she's 82 years old. So I had to stop the podcast to pull it up on YouTube so I could watch her.
Speaker 1:And again, not only is she explaining her experience, it's basically her entire life as a carnivore. She's explaining science, like she's telling you exactly why plants don't wanna get eaten. This is the best food. This is what we do with our kids. Her oldest is now 56. Like what an amazing episode that you did with her. That has really gone viral. Her picture is all over the internet. You look at this woman. She looks like she's in her 40s. She's 82 years old. You had the opportunity, after the symposium in San Diego, to go spend some time with her and I'm really curious to hear what that experience was like.
Speaker 2:Well, it was amazing and she's amazing too, and she is 82, she was born in 1941. And a lot of I mean I believe it was. I spoke to her and I mean, just talking to her, I was very clear that she was authentic. But some of the people in the comments were like there's no way, there's not a chance. This is bullshit. I mean, I like the carnivore diet but like this is just giving us a bad name and making us look bad because this is an obvious lie. And so she was like just really just confused by that, because that wasn't the point of her talking. Like, hey, look at me, I'm doing so great. She was talking about how, yes, eating meat is great and that's important for people to know about, but ranchers are being driven out of business, and one third of the ranchers in Canada lost their herds last year and were driven out, and it's just getting worse and there's all these conditions, and so we get the meat-based movement going, and then who the hell is gonna make the meat right? And so we need to address these sorts of things before it's a critical issue, and so that's what she was talking about. She wasn't really talking about her amazing health, which she has. So she ended up sending me pictures of her birth certificate, commercial driver's license and passport, and I can tell you she's born in 1941. And I met her daughter, one of her daughters. I met two of her grandkids and I saw pictures of her great grandkids, right Of which she has eight, you know. And so you know, this is all completely legit. And you know, she's not only 82, she not only looks half her age, but she is extraordinarily healthy, she moves like a fit 30-year-old.
Speaker 2:She was literally hopping over five foot tall fences to go and corral a raging bull, and I mean a raging bull, and this guy was a monster, his name was Growler, a big, massive bull, and he had got out of his little enclosure and worked his way over to. You know, because they had different herds separated, with different bulls, and he wanted, he wanted to be with these other cows, and so he was staring off with the other bull through the fence and she was like, oh God, if they get to each other, growler's gonna kill him, growler's just gonna kill me, because he was twice the size of this other bull. And so she literally hopped over, just popped over, just quick as hell, and just growl, come on, just grabbing him, you know, pulling him, crawling him. I was like, oh my God, I was like I'm not getting in there. And she was just like nothing. It was like nothing to her, climbing up and down.
Speaker 2:You know big tractors and combines and you know they have a little sailboat that they sort of take around the lake and they're building a bigger sailboat so they can, you know, sail down to Columbia where they bought a ranch down there. And she was like climbing up the mast and grabbing things, grabbing the ropes and all these sorts of things, Just like it was nothing, 82 years old, and not just like hobbling and like careful. I'm like, oh, she's good for 82. She's not dead yet. You know she hasn't turned to dust, she's not in a wheelchair, no, she's walking around working 14, 16 hour days. She's up at five am out with a cow's bang and then she's working until after dusk every day, and some days, you know, during capping season. Or you know if they're veiling, hey, you know, people grew up on farms. It's just, if you start bailing, hey, you keep bailing until the hay is done right. And so a couple of years ago she went for 36 hours straight herself, without a break, without sleep, without food, 36 hours at 80 years old, probably at the time you know.
Speaker 2:So this is someone who's in incredibly good shape and incredibly good health. She has no medical conditions, she's on no medication, she takes no supplements and she only goes to the doctor to get her required physical and checkup to maintain her commercial driver's license, and she does. She still has her commercial driver's license. So she's incredibly healthy. She's also an incredible person. She's extraordinarily interesting. She's had an amazing life, met some amazing people. I mean even to her family is pretty incredible. Her father's first cousin was Sir Edmund Hillary, who first climbed Mount Everest. Right, so that was her, you know, yeah, that was her family. So her first cousin once removed Pretty incredible, pretty cool stuff. And a lot of other really amazing things as well, as she told me which are pretty crazy probably not enough time to go into it here, but very interesting stuff. So, yeah, no, so that was amazing.
Speaker 2:We got to see her and got to hang out on the ranch and I mean she's just like put, you know, l and I to shame, you know. So I went with L and we were up there and we absolutely loved it. We stayed in one of their little guest cabins. It's beautiful, like their house, is so nice. She literally built this cabin or this log house herself, you know, because they've been poor for so long.
Speaker 2:It's like, I mean, your ranchers, I mean she's just losing money on a ranch every year, you know, and that's just how these people, they're just driving people out of business.
Speaker 2:They have expensive lands, very valuable, so a lot of taxes on it, and they make it very difficult to earn any money raising cattle and so they've been losing money for years and really struggling for a long time.
Speaker 2:And you know, most of her life she hasn't been able to afford to eat the beef that she produces, right, and so they hunt, you know, they take down moose and elk and all these sorts of things and, you know, get eggs and you know, and that's how she fed her kids and fed herself for, you know, for decades, right, and yeah. So we got to see that and you know, elle and I were probably like we're rolling out of bed at like nine o'clock and getting ready and going. They would get up there. We'd meet them for a sort of like a late breakfast at 10 o'clock. We're like, yeah, we'll be here at 10 o'clock and they've already been working for five hours. You know They've already been out with cows doing things for five hours and then we'd go out and we'd help them and we'd help put in, you know, dig fence posts and put up fences and move the cattle around.
Speaker 2:And Elle got to brand a calf or a few calves and things like that and it was fun with and, yeah, it was great and we just had a lot of fun hanging out with them and seeing you know what's going on, and it was just. She's an amazing person. Her husband, Mack, is an amazing guy. They're just lovely people, like literally just the nicest human beings that you could ever meet. And you know, as the law of the universe entails, because they're just the nicest human beings on earth, everybody has tried to take advantage of them at one point or another and yet they are still just the nicest, most wonderful people, which just goes to show you what Marcus Aurelius said in meditations, which is you can have a wonderful life right now.
Speaker 2:It's just all about mindset. How you look at your life will determine whether or not you enjoy your life. And, paraphrasing, but that's them to a tee, they've had a difficult time, a very difficult time and, as she says, you know she's like. I know what it's like to be hungry, I know what it's like to have to resort to eating, roadkill, and but you know, you just you sold your arm and so you know, even then, with all this hardship and all these people that have taken advantage of them, they're still the just the most positive nice, wonderful people and you can't shake them. You know they are going to enjoy their life. They're going to enjoy the world. They're going to enjoy what this world has to offer them, regardless of what people do to them. They're not getting jaded and cynical, they're just yeah, whatever, that's amazing, we'll just keep doing our thing. So yeah, it was really nice.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I think it's so cool that you took time out of a limited trip, that you had to spend some time with them. You could have stayed at some resort in a big city or whatever, and you chose to go up to the middle of nowhere, canada. I've been able to message her. She is incredibly grateful for you and was incredibly grateful to meet you and be part of your platform and get her message out again about the ranchers and the struggles they're having, and she has had a challenging year as far as acquiring. Hey, I understand, and so you were a big part of helping her with that.
Speaker 1:She mentioned to me how difficult it is for her and that to accept help, but you put something out on social media where you allowed people to contribute if they liked, and I think she's made such a big impact in this space, in the carnivore space, that so many people were willing to donate their money. I was able to send her a bit of money. It wasn't a ton, but hopefully it helped. Oh, thank you. How can people help her in this cause? Is it basically just finding the social media posts that you made so that people can contribute?
Speaker 2:Well, they can certainly do that and so I started a give-send-go campaign and apparently that's better than go fund me for various reasons, but it's exactly the same concept, I guess the go fund me thing when there was the Canadian truckers that had their strike and their protest and they froze their bank accounts, froze their funds, they just tried to starve these people out and people tried to go fund me campaign to try to support them and the Canadian government was able to go fund me people to freeze the assets.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Not actually give it to them. Yeah, so when I started saying, hey, I'm going to do a go fund me, a lot of people were like don't do that, do this other one give-send-go, because they don't play politics the way go fund me does. So that's why I went with that. But it's exactly the same idea and it's just give-send-gocom slash please help Maggie. And that's the campaign and people can find that on my Instagram as well or on my Facebook and I have it in links.
Speaker 2:In my more recent lives and I did a video basically saying that there was a lot of garbage going on with land and property rights in Canada where basically people don't own their land. The government owns everything underneath the surface of the ground and they sell them off to oil companies and miners and things like that, and so there's a lot of natural gas in Alberta. She has a big well on her land and it's been producing a lot of natural gas, so it's a highly producing gas natural gas reservoir there for 40, 50 years. She doesn't get any of that. Wow, that's sold off, auctioned off by the government and then sold between gas companies here and there and everywhere. They have to pay her some land usage price like $3,500 a year, to trample over her crops and trash her land and leave gates unlocked and have $40,000 worth of cattle stolen because they left the damn gates unlocked and all these other sorts of problems, and then treat her really bad, saying we own this land, we own blah, blah, blah. They're like absolutely not the hell, you don't. And $3,500 a year. So that's what was grandfathered in back in the 70s. That's how much you get is $3,500 a year and at the time that was a decent amount and it's not now, and so it didn't rise for inflation or the cost of the land or the cost of the crops that you could produce.
Speaker 2:Where that land is being taken up and the road to the well is being taken up and all these sorts of things. And at one point they just drove through. They had a crop growing and they just drove straight through. They didn't even just go around I mean it takes two minutes to go around on the easement path they just cut straight through and just killed all the crops in the way. I mean just absolute pieces of garbage. And so I made a video just saying this is total bullshit. And that's what it says on the thumbnails. Like this is bullshit and so it'll be on that as well and I have it on social media as well. But yeah, this is just givesangocom slash. Please help.
Speaker 2:Maggie and people have been amazing. We've raised just over $30,000 Canadian dollars, which is fantastic. You need 50. That's what we're trying to go for, and if we get a little more, that's even better, because they can certainly use it for the ranch.
Speaker 2:But you mentioned the hay, that there was a drought this year and there was a drought a couple of years ago, and so hay prices in Alberta have tripled and it's very difficult because of how expensive it is to ship things and gas prices and all these sorts of things. It's very difficult to get hay from other provinces or in America and all this sort of stuff, and so their hands are tied and so not only is there less hay available, it's triple the price, and so that's very difficult, and so they're already losing money and so they're using their pensions to basically keep the ranch afloat for operation costs, and getting hit with another $50,000 bill for hay like just it couldn't happen. It wasn't in the budget. They would have to sell off more land. She's had to sell off more and more land and more and more land to get more and more penned in, because they're just losing money, losing money, losing money and having to sell off, having to sell off, having to sell off, having to sell off, having to sell off. So it's really sad, and so I was just like I just can't see that. I just don't want to see that happen. She's such a nice person, she's had so many people take advantage of her and she's just done nothing but gift kindnesses to so many people and I just couldn't see that. I didn't want to see that happening.
Speaker 2:And the other horrible possibility was that they'd have to sell off half their herd because they couldn't afford to feed them through the winter, and so they'd have to sell off half their herd to afford enough hay to feed the rest of the herd. And so now you have half the herd and now you're trying to. Maybe you have to try and buy things back, but you don't have the money then either, and so you have to start to try to regrow your herd. That takes years, years and years and years. And the cows that you're keeping you're not selling, so you're not making money on them. There's the delay. You have to keep on selling cows for years and years and years until you have a heifer that's producing cows that you can sell, and you can sell one calf a year or something like that. You can't just keep a bunch of cows and expect to survive. You have to sell some You're, else you go down because they're operational costs.
Speaker 2:So I didn't want to see that and I wanted to help out. It was just amazing and she was literally crying when she saw people. They were the outpouring of people helping. But we're still going. We're over halfway there but we still have a ways to go.
Speaker 2:And so if people listening to this, you don't want to watch that episode with Maggie, it's just. I think it's just called on. My channel is just. You probably look up Maggie on my channel, but you can also look up Rancher and Carnivore for 65 years or over 65 years that's the title and that will come up and it's one of my more popular videos and just see what you think. And if that's someone you want to help out, $1, $5, whatever it helps, it all adds up and people have been giving more money but they've also been giving smaller amounts and whatever people are able to do really helps because you get enough people giving a buck or two, you'll get there, you'll get there, and so, yeah, so, hopefully, hopefully, we can get there. But even now, with 30,000 or so, that's going to save a significant amount of her herd, which is great.
Speaker 1:Sounds like it. Well, that's amazing. We'll tag the link in the notes. We'll tag that episode in the notes as well. I think people will be shocked to listen to that episode and see how smart she is. I mean 82, she's learning how to sail. She's learning Spanish 82, it's so cool. And, yeah, just again, the communication I've had with her has been absolutely amazing. She's very, very grateful for you.
Speaker 1:As much as I would love to keep you on the line, I realize you are in Perth and for us to communicate you have to be up very, very late. It must be very close to your bedtime, so I better let you go here. But if you don't mind, we've mentioned the book club, which is absolutely fantastic. I love being part of the book club. I have a client during that time and so I can't even usually attend, but it's been really fun to like, try to tune in when I can and also read along with the books and the commentary from the people that are in there, including Olivia, is just absolutely wonderful. So everybody should join that. We'll link that as well. But where can people go to find you, to connect with you and your work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, thank you very much. It's been great talking to you, as always. And well, my social media is just AnthonyChafeeMD on Instagram and my YouTube channel is the same AnthonyChafeeMD. I have a podcast called the Plant Free MD and Twitter is Anthony underscore Chafee. I do have a Patreon where we run a book club and every month we read a different book in this sort of the health and nutrition space and that's been going really well. We often get the authors to come in for the final book club and answer questions directly to people and sort of have people sort of talk to them about it and balance these off, which is really great.
Speaker 1:It's been cool yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's sort of the nicest thing about having a podcast is that you have a platform that you can actually say hey, I'd like to talk to you. That I'm super interested in and I loved your book and I wanted to talk to you. It's like, can we do a podcast or would you come into my book club? And people say yes, which is crazy. So it's sort of nice to get access to people that you wouldn't otherwise, and so you know, it's great to be able to pass that on to you, know the Patreon members and let them get access to these people as well. It was just really nice and so, yeah, so I try to make well, we do the book club and we do a lot of other things in early release videos and weekly Q&A sessions with just Patreon members, and so, yeah, and if people are interested in that, that's just the Patreon. And again, anthony Jaffe MD.
Speaker 1:It's a few bucks Like. The value that you get for a few dollars a month is absolutely wonderful. So again, we'll tag that notes. Dr Jaffe, always a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for appearing on our show today. We really appreciate you, not a problem.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Such an honor always, and this has been another episode of Boundless Body Radio, as always. Thank you so very much for listening to Boundless Body Radio. I know I say this all the time, but I really do mean it. It has been such a joy to make and produce this podcast and to watch it grow. Our business started in the pandemic in July of 2020 and we started the podcast in October of 2020. So it has been three years now and to see that we have generated over 400,000 downloads worldwide is just simply unbelievable to me.
Speaker 1:This year in particular has been such a blast to travel to different health conferences and not only meet some of our amazing guests, but also to meet many of you, our listeners and supporters. We really just can't thank you enough. As always, feel free to book a complimentary 30 minute session on our website, which is MyBoundlessBodycom. On our homepage, there is a book now button where you can find a time to speak with us about health, fitness, nutrition, whatever you like. We've loved chatting with people all over the world and many of you out there to bounce ideas off each other or to try to come up with plans to achieve specific goals, or even if it's just to reach out to introduce yourselves. We would just love to meet you and connect with you there.
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