Joe Mass

What if you could experience the essence of a city's musical heartbeat and the stories of those who keep it alive? Join us for the season premiere of Chewing the Gristle, where we sit down with the ever-versatile Joe Mass. From his mastery in jazz, fusion, and rock, to his unique role as a Neil Young tribute artist, Joe's journey is nothing short of fascinating. He shares vivid tales of recording under the legendary Bootsy Collins' label and memorable collaborations with artists like Jimmy Haslip and Jeff Lorber. Don't miss out as Joe also reveals his exciting current projects and upcoming gigs.

Step back in time with us to explore Philadelphia's rich musical tapestry in our special chapter on the city's historic moments. We recount the early inspirations, including an unforgettable encounter with an 11-year-old prodigy and the life-changing influence of the Allman Brothers. The spotlight also shines on Philadelphia icons like Robert Hazard and his serendipitous hit "Girls Just Want to Have Fun." These stories encapsulate the transformative experiences that shape a musician's career, blending nostalgia with profound insights.

Finally, immerse yourself in the intertwined stories of Philadelphia's jazz scene, celebrating figures like Dennis Sandoli, Pat Martino, Jimmy Bruno, and the DeFrancescos. Relive the humorous, humbling moments of wisdom and camaraderie shared among these jazz legends. We'll also discuss the enduring influence of Philly's jazz community and the strong connections that continue to inspire contemporary music. Whether you're a lifelong jazz enthusiast or new to the genre, this episode promises to captivate and inspire with its rich, interconnected narratives.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:09

Lo and behold, ladies and gentlemen, season five of Chewing the Gristle is upon us. It's been a little while, folks, but it's going to be worth the wait. We're going to be featuring a lot of convivial conversations with various musical potentates, most of which you've heard of. Some are going to be some new discoveries. That's why I'm here to bring forth the chewable gristle matter to you via the information superhighway, brought to you, of course, by our friends at Wildwood Guitars in beautiful Louisville, colorado, and our friends at Fishman Transducers of beautiful Andover, massachusetts. Both I've had great longstanding relationships with, and continue to do so, and we're very grateful for their continued support in this endeavor of giving you the highest quality and chewable gristle possible. Now, without any further ado, folks, let's get down and dirty with some Chewing the Gristle Season 5. Buckle up, buckle up.

Speaker 1: 1:04

This week on Chewing the Gristle, journeyman musician Joe Mass. Whether it be jazz or fusion or rock and roll, he's a multi-instrumentalist guitar player extraordinaire. Known him for many years, got great stories. He's even doing a new young tribute Right now that's selling out all over the place. A majestic cat, joe Mass. This week on Chewing the Gristle. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we convene once again around the Gristle Campfire for convivial guitar fellowship here on Chewing the Gristle beaming in from beautiful Philadelphia, pennsylvania, my buddy Joe Mass, guitar player, extraordinaire, really, multi-instrumentalist. His dossier is so deep, from playing with pop stars, jazz heavyweights he's done it all. Pop stars, jazz heavyweights, he's done it all. He plays a mean keyboard, he plays sax, he plays all kinds of stuff, but he's a guitar playing fiend. And on top of that he's one of the foremost neil young impersonators to be found and is selling out theaters all over the damn place. Doing that, joe? How the hell are you?

Speaker 2: 2:22

I'm good. Good, gregory, how are you?

Speaker 1: 2:24

I'm doing well, thank you. We've had a bit of rain here, Joe. It's been kind of a every day has been pummeled with storms and rain. We had a little water in the basement but figured out the problem and we should be good going forward. Other than that, I'm good. How are you doing?

Speaker 2: 2:42

I'm good and there's no rain in the orange room, correct?

Speaker 1: 2:46

That is correct. The orange room is sufficiently protected from the elements, which is good, which is a good thing. So what are you doing today? What's the latest?

Speaker 2: 2:58

Okay, well, latest today is, you know, I've been working on a bunch of stuff and actually, you know, today I have a little gig outside of New Jersey and I'll be going to that around five o'clock. But other than that, just you know, wake up every day, practice, write, and we do what we do, don't we?

Speaker 1: 3:25

We do indeed. Now I just saw you down in Dallas and you had done a set with some jazz heavyweights. Why don't you tell us what transpired and who it was with, and all of that kind of stuff?

Speaker 2: 3:40

Well, I have a good friend, a promoter named John Hill, and John Hill, a couple of years ago, when I was recording my record that I signed with Boots Hill Records back in 2020, that's a Bootsy Collins' label, yes. So John called up his friend, jimmy Haslip, in LA and he said you know, you should, you should meet this guitar player, joe Mass. So I talked with Jimmy and we began you know a relationship. He played on the what I call the Bootsy record, right. And then Jimmy said you know, I'd love to do a jazz record with you. Would you be interested in that? And I said, uh, yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:33

And um, so I wrote I had like 12 compositions and I sent him those and he picked like seven of them and we started working on that and, um, of course he got Jeff Lorber involved with it and a bunch of other people. Um, so basically I recorded two records Jimmy's on the Bootsy record and then Jimmy actually produced and got everybody on it. I mean there's Jimmy Haslip, randy Brecker plays trumpet, jeff Lorber, andy Schnitzer from the Rolling Stones plays some saxophone, mike Patterson, who was with Dave Brubeck and he's a Philadelphia cat played saxophone, ralph Humphries from Zappa's band oh yeah Played drums. Dave Weckl played some drums and then Scott Kinsey was really the guy who did everything. So I'm just like this little guy from Philly and Jimmy got all his friends on it. Thank you, jimmy.

Speaker 1: 5:39

And, of course, jimmy Haslip, famous from the Yellow Jackets, for those of you who may not recognize that name, if there are some of those people out there, but that's his lineage.

Speaker 2: 5:51

So it came time to do Dallas and Jimmy Wallace asked me to come and play. And I asked Jimmy and Jeff and my cousin Eric Scatter, reggie, he's the drummer and and we we did, dallas and you and I had dinner and breakfast and we all hung out. We did, indeed it was. It was just a fab, fabulous time.

Speaker 1: 6:19

Fabulous time, indeed. Another kind of small world moment is the Fender rep who I used to travel with quite a bit back in the day. Dan Gold is the bass player in your Neil Young outfit as well. It's a small world, is what it is.

Speaker 2: 6:36

Yes, it's a very small world. Yeah, danny actually put the band together. The way it came together, greg is. I had to do the song Old man for a Wedding. Okay, I went into Danny's shop to buy some strings. He has a small shop called Danny's Guitar Shop in Narberth, pennsylvania. Went into Danny's shop and I said do you know the song Old man? And he said no, no, you know.

Speaker 1: 7:13

We know.

Speaker 2: 7:14

Dan and Danny said yeah. I said, well, you know, can you like see if this is right? So I played Old man and he said, you know, you kind of you sound like Neil Young a little bit when you sing and kind of look like the younger version of Neil Young. So maybe we could do a tribute band and make some money. And of course you know me, being the Philadelphia journeyman, that I am like just trying to keep going and make a living. I said, yeah, I could do that. I only knew old man and really one other song by Neil Young. And I learned, I learned his book and it's a great book and we go out and we're booked by this agency called Blue Raven Entertainment and we, we play all place and yeah, it's a lot of fun and I get to do Neil Young's catalog.

Speaker 1: 8:09

And there are some great tunes. I'm an old Neil Young fan. As a matter of fact, lately I've been enjoying riffing on the epic three chords of Cortez the Killer. It is just an epic jam. Do you guys do that one?

Speaker 2: 8:27

Actually we don't, and I'll tell you why. It's because, like we do down by the river, oh yeah, we l girl in the sand, and those two songs, we, we, we stretch out and we, we jam on those okay but cortez the killer. We get a lot of requests for that actually, but we don't do that song. But I recently went to see Neil Young on May 12th.

Speaker 1: 8:49

And he opened up with that.

Speaker 2: 8:52

And he opened with it and it was just epic. I mean, you know the thing about his guitar playing. People ask me well, when it comes to Neil Young's guitar playing, you don't play Neil Young's riffs, you do kind of your own thing. And I'm more of a fusion player. I like blues, I like fusion. I delve into the metal side of things too, but if I were to say what I am, I'm more of a jazz fusion guy.

Speaker 1: 9:30

Right.

Speaker 2: 9:31

Leaning on the word fusion more than leaning on the word jazz. So I tend to think about, like, if Neil Young came to a show of mine, would would he want me to play all of his guitar riffs note for note? And I would have to say the answer would probably be no, right, he like me to stretch out and do my own thing. That's not to say that the audience like I get some audience that that, uh, you know, they love what I do, and then you get a person or two that'll say, well, you're not really playing neil young's like guitar riffs yeah, there'll always be a few of those people that wanted exactly a record, but that's, but that's I, but I, I sing all the songs authentically and we don't change keys, we do everything in the original key and I'm naturally, as a singer, a lyric tenor, so I can sing all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 10:31

But you know certainly not how. You know, when I grew up, uh, my mother, my mother was a classical pianist. That's what she was. My father's family were all singers and so when my family would get together, everybody would come over and and like my mother be playing the piano, and I was like a little baby I thought everybody played. So when she came over that didn't play, I would bring them to the piano and like I would say, you know play. And well, we don't play. It was odd to me, I'd start crying. That's funny. In my grandmother's basement there was a Vox Jaguar organ and a Vox amp. My grandmother had a Vox Jaguar organ and my uncle Joe.

Speaker 2: 11:23

He lived in Birmingham, he was part of the Muscle Shoals string section, so he played on all those records and I remember him telling me once when I was little. He said you know the Beatles' Long and Winding Road, I'm on that. I'm like what he goes. Yeah, he. He said I want to tell you something. He said phil specter when he he didn't want to record anything in england when it came to the orchestration, he recorded it all at muscle shawls. Ah, no, kidding, yeah. So I found that I'm like I mean, I quite didn't understand what he's talking about then, but like later, like you know, when he passed away, I got his practice violin it's a Robert Doling violin made in the early 20s and and you know that violin that sat in my curio for years and then one day I walked by it and it was like all right, it's time to play. So as an adult I started taking violin lessons and you know, it was kind of like. It's kind of like you know, you mentioned this early in the show Like I play saxophone, I play violin, I play piano, but the two instruments that I feel like I'm kind of versed on are guitar first and piano.

Speaker 2: 12:49

I call myself a good actor. I'm a good actor. I can make you think I'm good. Oh, yeah, he's good. But you know, it's kind of an act. That's what I, because I work with some of the most amazing saxophonists and like, am I a great saxophonist? No, but what I've done on my records, like the record I made with Jimmy, the jazz record.

Speaker 2: 13:19

I did play the melodies. I played all the melodies. I doubled the melodies on saxophone that I play on guitar. So I did do that. But when it came time to do the solos, I left it up to Mike Pedison, who played with Dave Brubeck and Andy Schnitzer you know what I mean and Bob Mincer. So that was, they're the guys who I hear as the soloist when I, when I make a record, so but you know, I, I it's, it's. It's pretty cool that, like you know, I can, I can hear a melody and like I'll, I'll, I'll play it on the saxophone and and like I'm like, yeah, this sounds like a saxophone melody, and then I'll kind of construct the song around that melody. You know, and and and and that's something like I run by jimmy haslip. I'll call jimmy up and I'll go. You know, I got this melody idea, you know, and he goes okay, well, send it to me, you know, and then I'll send him a melody and some chords and then him and Scott Kinsey Do you know who Scott Kinsey is?

Speaker 1: 14:27

I've heard that name, but I don't know who he is.

Speaker 2: 14:29

He was basically the driving force behind Scott Henderson's Tribal Tech. Okay, all right, he was the keyboard cat and, like Scott, will just tear everything apart and re-harm everything. He's a master at re-harmonization. I mean a real master. I've learned so much just from making a record with Scott. Awesome, you know. So like that's what I think about my saxophone stuff and my violin playing.

Speaker 2: 15:01

And my mother, my mother, was great as a critic playing, you know. And my mother, my mother, was great as a critic. My mother, like when I, when I was learning violin as an adult, she would sit at the piano and she'd go, okay, well, let me hear this, and I'd be, I'd be playing like a little piece out of I had this, this Bartok book with two-part inventions and they were really good for violin, and she would play the piano part, the violin part, and she would turn around and she would just say to me flat out, that was horrible, that was terrible. She said, your vibrato is terrible and and you know you, some of the stuff you intonate, well, but but others it's just horrible. And she goes before I come back to this, you have to really work on that. And I'd be like, ok, mom, and I'd really work on it.

Speaker 2: 15:54

The mom was a savage. And then she'd say like it's passable. And then, like when I would play the piano, she would say and she'd be in the other room and I'd be playing on her yamaha piano and she'd be, she'd say, and she'd be like reading the paper or do something else and she'd go, stop banging on the piano, don't bang on the piano. It was like all I was like okay and and, but I, you know, okay and and, but I, you know, that's how I learned.

Speaker 1: 16:29

I learned from my mom too, you know. So when did you want to start playing guitar and what was the impetus? I mean, obviously music was all around, but when?

Speaker 2: 16:39

when was the guitar? Like I'm going to do this Um, I, I, I guess I was 11 and um, I had a lot of friends who played guitar. There was this kid named Johnny and in Philadelphia on Saturday morning it was like this local talent program. So he was on the talent program and him and his brothers were playing songs and singing three part harmony and he was 11 and they were incredible and I'm like, wait, that's Johnny, I know him. I got all excited and know you can hear my Philadelphia accent. That's all right.

Speaker 2: 17:40

Monday morning I'm getting to school early and I'm going to watch him. He walked to school. My mother drove me to school and I watched him walk down the hill into the schoolyard and I ran up to him. I'm like I saw you on TV and he was like, yeah, it was me and my brother. So I'm like you guys are amazing. I'm like you're teaching me guitar right now. It was like a Gregory Cochran moment. I'm like you're teaching me now. I went to his house and and um, he had, he had an old acoustic guitar. I didn't have a guitar and and he, he, he showed me um, um, like a folk song, and and his his also. His mom was really into the beatles so he showed me the song and I love her okay which was a difficult song oh, yeah, no doubt.

Speaker 2: 18:43

And but he was really diligent with me and took the time out and, you know, put the guitar in my hands and that was it. I was hooked, you were hooked. That was the end of it. And then, you know, then I really got into the Allman Brothers band. Then I really got into the Allman Brothers band.

Speaker 1: 19:08

But earlier in that day too you were hanging out. The roadies kind of took a shine to you from the Allman Brothers and you got to play Dickie's Rig and stuff too right.

Speaker 2: 19:18

You got to plug into it and it's kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was crazy, that was a crazy, crazy time. That day. That day turned a lot of things for me. But I mean, I you know the Allman brothers um, there's such diversity and and there's so many genres that are connected to their music. You can study country, you can study jazz, you can study blues and you can study rock and roll and it's all in their music. I did a record with a leader back in 2002, and he was very influential with me doing Latin music. The record was called Sabroso and the leader's name was John Alberti, and the record did well. It went to number six on the charts and John also loved the Allman Brothers and we made an instrumental version jazz Latin in memory of Richard.

Speaker 1: 20:29

Reed yeah, it's a glorious selection.

Speaker 2: 20:32

And it was interesting because John wanted to do it, like Dickie and Dwayne, because of J-Mo they got really interested in jazz so they would play Coltrane records and Miles records in the big house and John noted that Dickie Betts was also into Miles Davis, right that you know Vicki Betts was also into Miles Davis, right. A trumpet play the melody of in memory of Elizabeth Reed. I did like this little beginning that was kind of more almond brotherish, but once we got into tune, um, you know, it was more like an African six that we played in and we had just an incredible array of Philadelphia Latino and jazz musicians play on that record. It was great. And then, unfortunately, we were going to make the second record and John passed away. Oh, that's too bad, but that was, that was great. I mean, you know, philadelphia is full of like, really, um, history of like great writers. I mean there's, there's.

Speaker 2: 21:56

I worked for a guy named Robert Hazard. Robert Hazard wrote girls just want to have fun. Oh yeah, cindy Lauper hit and um, robert told me the story of how he wrote, that he met this girl and this is like in the 70s. I didn't play with him until the mid 90s, but in the 70s he met this girl in Delaware, the state of Delaware, and went back to her apartment and she had to get up and go to work in the morning and she was having so much fun with him, they were having such a great time the night before and she said, listen, I'm going to leave, um, but you're free to just hang at the apartment and just lock up when you go. Just turn the bottom little knob and it'll lock and that'll be good and he goes, okay. So he, he went and she had this really big bathtub and he went into the bath, drew himself a bath and he was thinking of the song Norwegian Wood. You know, I once had a girl.

Speaker 2: 23:06

So he was thinking of that song. But then he just thought of her and he thought, man, girls just want to have fun, Girls just want to have fun five in five minutes in the bathtub.

Speaker 1: 23:22

That's so crazy.

Speaker 2: 23:24

And and it became. It became Cindy Lauper's biggest song. Of course it went to number one, and Robert you know Robert wrote a lot of other great songs, but that was the hit that he wrote.

Speaker 1: 23:40

That probably set him for life, am I right?

Speaker 2: 23:42

Well, he called it the Magic Envelope. Let me tell you what happened. The Magic Envelope is a story about I believe it was Polygram that she was signed to. So the song becomes a huge hit and there's no money. Robert's like, wait a second, I'm the writer, there's no money. So he he's calling Lenny Pizzi and his Bill Ibe in Philly and they're like well, you know, we'll make a couple of calls and Nothing's happening. So one day Robert goes to the mailbox and there is a letter which looks like a letter from Polygram Records and he opens it up and it's a check for 750 000. And that was magic envelope. I I'm not sure exactly of of the amount, but it was somewhere in that neighborhood. And, and you know, that's when, when you could sell 5, 10 million records and you wrote the song.

Speaker 1: 24:55

Today, of course, you know, with streaming, you know you get pennies on the dollar.

Speaker 2: 25:00

That would be, you know, $500. Or $0.50.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Exactly, exactly. We interrupt this regularly scheduled Gristle Infested conversation to give a special shout out to our friends at Fishman Transducers. Exactly, exactly, bringing the heat in the shadow of the Rocky Mountains. Was he able to transform? I would imagine he was smart with his dough and managed to put that to good use. Or was he a pirate? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 25:43

very smart, Very smart guy. I learned a lot from him too. I played in his band for a number of years and we actually he would come up from florida. He owned two um antique stores a place in the adirondacks and a place in florida and unfortunately, robert also passed away. Young um and and, but I still talk to um his, his wife and his children. So I know his son's a guitar player too, Nice, but you know that's part of Philly's history. In fact, I'm going to have lunch tomorrow with Jimmy Bruno oh you are?

Speaker 1: 26:27

Yeah, well, say hello to him. I haven't seen him in years. I used to see him at NAMM shows when I was. I'd be there for Fender and he was there with I can't remember who it was. Fender was doing a jazz guitar for a while and he was the guy Benedetto.

Speaker 2: 26:44

Yeah, he was a Benedetto guy, yeah. Yeah exactly Eastman guitars, those are nice.

Speaker 2: 26:54

Went to launch a couple years a couple months ago actually, not even a month ago and we went back to his house. He has this little Hendrickson amp and I mean, you know he's such a great player I learned, like my jazz thing. Like I had this friend who studied with Pat Martino. That is back in 1990. And he came into this music store where I was kind of playing around and I was, you know, just like this rock kid and he was this rock kid who was studying with Pat Martino. I'm like, man, you're really good man. He goes yeah, you're good too. Why don't we get together, like like learn some real book stuff? And I'm like, yeah, man, that sounds great. So I would go to his house every day, we would practice the real book.

Speaker 2: 27:47

And about six months later Matt said to me his name was Matthew. He said we're going to go get a gig now. I'm like, ok, he goes, meet me here Tuesday night six o'clock. I'm like, ok, so we drive into Philadelphia, we go to this place called JJ's Grotto and Matt walks in dressed in a suit. I'm dressed in jeans. I'm like, what am I supposed to do? He goes just shut up and let me take the lead here. I'm like okay.

Speaker 2: 28:20

And so Matt walks, walks in, and the um, one of the owners. This was the grotto. It was downstairs on 21st Street in Philadelphia and it's the place where Jimmy Bruno made history. I mean, that's when Jimmy came back from LA to Philadelphia that's where he played was the Grotto Got it the JJ Grotto. So Matt knew that it was a jazz like a famous Philadelphia jazz room. And so Matt walked in there and Ricky and Jack owned it. So Jack greeted Matt at the door, said would you guys like a table? And Matt said and there was two kids playing jazz. It was a Tuesday night and they had two kids from UARPS playing jazz. And Matt said just to Jack he said, listen, we're here to get their gig. Jack, what he goes. Yeah, we're a lot better than them and we're going to bring people in here. And I was horrified. I was like what? Oh my God, he goes. Yeah, try us out. And Jack, ricky, came over. And now Jack and Ricky are looking at Matt like he's nuts. And Jack says to Matt he goes all right, big shot, you're on, these guys are off next week. Anyway, you come in here with him or whoever else you're going to bring in here and you guys play. So we played the next Tuesday night and we brought a ton of our friends 1990, and everybody came in and Matt was a great player and we really honed. We were playing stuff like there will never be another. You, my, you know my favorite things, my one and only love um, all the things you are. We play all these standards and we played them as a duo and it's and, and Jack came up to to Matt at the end of the gig and he goes all right, you guys got the gig.

Speaker 2: 30:32

Now I had that gig for 10 years. Matt got married like three years later and had a little baby and so he left the gig. But then I had other partners in the gig and I had it till the year 2000 until they changed ownership. And that's how I learned the real book stuff by doing it. Every single week I got paid like 50 bucks and a big bowl of spaghetti. It was great food and and we had the greatest time learning in there and I had I had um, one of sandali's students, uh, I had a great guitar player named jay scott and another great guitar player named chris gordon, um and matt hollingsworth.

Speaker 2: 31:22

They were my partners all throughout that run and it was great, I mean, and jimmy bruno used to come in. Every tuesday night when we played, jimmy bruno would come in and he would grab whoever's guitar was there and he goes all right, joe, let's play. And then I'd have to play his tempos and he goes ready One, two, da, da, da, da, come on comp. And it's like I'm playing, you know, and I'm playing bass lines with tour and I'm comping with Bruno and I'm like slow the fuck down. He'd be like pushing me. And then, you know, we would get into discussions about guitars and players. And then one night he brought it was me and Chris Gordon on this run and he brings, he goes. Jimmy comes down the steps, there's nobody in the place yet it's about 6.30. And you know it was a 7 to 10 gig and me and Chris were getting ready to play and you know, chris is like this 21-year-old kid we're both young and, like you know, just hungry and Jimmy brings, he goes.

Speaker 2: 32:34

I brought people to see you tonight and in comes Pat Martino and this is like 1991 or no, I forget and Papa John DeFrancesco, joey DeFrancesco and that whole crew, they all walk in and Pat sits at the front table with Jimmy and like there's like it was set up like kind of Italian style, where it was like one long table and then tables on the side. Right, that's the restaurant. So Pat's sitting in front and so Chris is in the back with me and Chris goes. I can't play, I'm like just shut up and play. We played our set and Pat, I tell this story a lot.

Speaker 2: 33:28

This is really funny, greg, pat's sitting there and watching me and watching Chris and we get done playing and Pat's drinking wine, okay, and Jimmy's reading the newspaper over Pat and Jimmy's listening to what Pat and Pat and I sit down and I go. You know, pat, this is really an honor having you here. He goes well and Pat talked like this. Well, joe, you know, and I said to him I said you know, because I don't really feel like I'm a legit jazz player and, by the way, I still don't. By the way, you know, I'm a rock and roll player that you know learned the real book stuff, right, the music. And he goes well, joe, let me tell you your playing is jazz, because jazz is a reflection of your personality and how you emote your music in a feeling. And Jimmy's standing over Pat and Pat gets done this sentence and there's a long pause and Jimmy takes the newspaper, hits him over the head and goes shut up head and go shut up.

Speaker 1: 34:56

That's quite humorous.

Speaker 2: 34:59

Yeah, it was really crazy man.

Speaker 1: 35:01

Well, talk about a little bit of that Philly jazz royalty stuff, because you know you had Dennis Sandoli. My whole college curriculum that my guy used was basically he used guitar lore by Dennis Sandoli as the basis of the curriculum and Sandoli taught Pat Martino and John Coltrane took lessons from Sandoli in terms of theory and so on and so forth. Did you ever encounter Sandoli? Did you ever take any lessons from him or anything like that?

Speaker 2: 35:33

No, but I got to be good friends with him.

Speaker 2: 35:37

Okay, there was this guitar player named John who was one of the grotto partners that I had and he knew Dennis because he studied with Dennis. Dennis wanted to sell his D'Angelico because he had a 19-year-old daughter and Dennis was 82. So his daughter he was paying for her college tuition, so he needed to sell his DA. So John and I met with Dennis and, um, you know, uh, john knew this guitar dealer but we met at Pina's, which is an Italian restaurant in Roxborough where Dennis lived. He lived in Roxborough at this time in a little apartment, so I had this girlfriend back then and Dennis loved young girls and he loved my girlfriend. Dennis loved young girls and he loved my girlfriend. So he said let's go to dinner, you bring her with, you Bring her. So we would sit down at dinner and we did this for a whole summer. We would go every Sunday, we would go to penis and I would pick Dennis up and my girlfriend would be with me and and John would be with me too, and we would sit and order a bowl of spaghetti and Dennis told me all about Coltrane. I'm like, what was it like? He said well, you know, he said John, like he said, well, you know, he said John, john wanted to, um, wanted to keep playing in the higher register on his tenor saxophone. I'm like, yeah, well, I mean, he said you know, and, and I so I told John. I said, john, you need to go out and buy a soprano saxophone. And so it was dennis who got john to buy a soprano.

Speaker 2: 37:55

And of course, my favorite things is, you know, one of the biggest, uh, I'll say the most famous of coltrane's. I'll call them hits, right, I mean really this if you study like Giant Steps, giant Steps is such a great study, I've played it and I'm still trying to play it at, like you know, or 180. Like, I'm not going to play it at 240. You know, I'm just not Right and play 16th notes at 240. No, but, but you know that that Dennis told me all about. You know John's addiction and John was very shy around Dennis when, when John was was using and Dennis knew him when he was using too, got it. So yeah, the other Philly thing, like I'm good friends with Michael Pedison, who's an amazing tenor saxophonist. And of course the other lineage is the Brecker brothers. You know they're both from Germantown.

Speaker 2: 39:17

Okay, and Michael Brecker and Pedersen were best friends. They were great friends. And Brecker actually said you know, michael, I took a lot from what you did and applied it to what I do. And Pedersen, I'm doing another record that's in the infancy right now, but it's going to be called Philadelphia and I've got Jimmy producing it. We're going to get Randy on it, randy Brecker, of course we can't get Michael passed away, but Jeff's going to play, lorber's going to play, patterson's going to play on it.

Speaker 2: 40:01

And then there's a whole lineage of Philadelphia bass players that people don't know about, and I'll mention their names. There's Steve Beskron, a fantastic electric and upright player who played with Ray Charles. There's also Chico Huff, an incredible bass player who played I think he did some stuff with James Taylor early on. Then there's Mike Boone, who frequents Smalls in New York City. If you know, smalls, it's a famous jazz band Right, all those in New York. And then there's guys like Kevin McConnell, who's a great upright player, and there's a guy named Glenn Marazazzo, who's a great bass player, and then, um, you know, there's also um bruce kaminsky, who developed the kid bass that a lot of bass players are using. It's this, this electric bass on a uh, on a tripod sure yep and upright and he's a great.

Speaker 2: 41:11

So there's all this lineage of Philadelphia and I apologize if I'm missing anybody, but those players I know personally and you know just just great bass players, so. And then there's the horn players, you know there's. There's the Brecker brothers, there's Andy Schnitzer's from Philadelphia, and you know I could go on and on, and there's the Schnitzer's from Philadelphia, and you know I could go on and on, and there's a fantastic pianist's, also a Philadelphia cat, who plays keyboards. You know, and I have them on the Bootsy record. You know I did that in 2020 with With those guys, when I met Billy Sheehan. I met Billy Sheehan, I played NAMM in 2020 and Roto Sound did this thing and I played with Billy Sheehan and I asked Billy to be on the record. So, and Anil and all those guys that I just mentioned, they're on that record too. By the way, none of my records are released yet because I'm still waiting for Bootsy and Distribution and all this other stuff. I understand it. We're trying to make things happen, but you know what I'm talking about, you know.

Speaker 1: 42:37

So what do you think about? What do you think it is about Philly? I mean, obviously it's a. It's a sizable population center, so there would be talent, but there's, you know. But there needs to be more than this. So was there a pretty robust scene in terms of people who could stay local and make a living, or is it like most places now, where that's becoming increasingly more difficult? But at one time, was it a place where that was a bona fide way to go about making a living was just staying local and being able to play a variety of gigs and do the deed?

Speaker 2: 43:11

Okay, so we'll talk about that. Let's talk about that. When you are a working musician like me, who you know, I mean I have a little notoriety because I, you know, I do all guitar network Bonamassa's thing.

Speaker 1: 43:34

Right.

Speaker 2: 43:35

And you know, actually it was partly due to my relationship with all guitar network and Bonamassa that I got this big feature in Vintage Guitar Magazine a couple of years ago with Joe Bonamassa but if you're like me, who's relatively unknown, and all these great players in Philly. There's always the corporate wedding scene. Sure, I did that for years and years and years because you know, on a private gig you can make your. That's kind of like the mainstay of your money, sure. And then other stuff you fill in. You fill in with studio work, you fill in with students, you fill in with doing a bar gig once in a while, you fill in doing a country club gig and the scene for making original music and making money at it.

Speaker 2: 44:35

Nah, that, really, if you're gonna have a house and and a mortgage and, and you know, pay your car payment and this, and that you got to do a diverse amount of things. I mean I tour with two tribute bands I'll play. Today I'm playing a six to nine. I'm doing a corporate event where I'll take my Martin D28, take my little crate amp that has like two plugs for my mic and one for my guitar and go and sing a bunch of stuff for three hours and make real money.

Speaker 1: 45:13

Right.

Speaker 2: 45:16

So can you make money as an artist? That's your question. I would think it's very, very difficult. If you're the Jimmy Haslips and the Jeff Lorbers of the world, yeah, you can get a good shed tour in the summer and I'm trying, I'm trying to do some of that. You know, that's what I did in Dallas. I have a couple of promoters where I've done well in Texas. I do well at certain rooms in New York. I do well in Connecticut, but it's hard, yeah, it's hard, it's hard to do. You know, it's like nice, nice people will always take you in, you know, and promote you and help you. Like you like you're giving me this opportunity to be on this podcast, so this is an opportunity for me to like okay, I branch out a little bit more. More people get to know who I am, and you know, and we're all trying to help each other.

Speaker 2: 46:20

I met Gary Hoey. I met Gary Hoey in 2014,. Right, and I'm like coming to Texas for the first time because of a crazy gig that I had that that I met Jimmy Wallace on. So I go to Texas Dallas international bar festival. I'm like I knew Gary Hoey because he did Hocus Pocus and like I was a fan, I'm a huge fan of this guy. He meets me, he hears me play and he goes hey man, come on, come on on my stage, let's play Right. And I'm like, oh, and it's Gary Howie doing this. It's like I'm like, well, you're going to wait, you're going to ask me up. He goes yeah, you're coming up to play with me. And I'm like, wow. Like. No, I don't know any like big rock star, I would ever do that.

Speaker 1: 47:09

Wow, like no, I don't know any like big rock star would ever do that.

Speaker 2: 47:10

True, that's the type of cat he is Like. He he's more than just like this incredible guitar player. He's an incredible human being and he translates that through his music. You could see that this guy's real, you know. And so, like we're all just, I mean, you know, the point I'm trying to make is we're all trying to help each other. You know, if I can, if I can help somebody, um, uh, get a gig or or do something, I'm, I'm all about it, man, because it'll come back and and reflect on me, you know absolutely that's.

Speaker 2: 47:46

That's kind of really what I'm about, you know.

Speaker 1: 47:49

Now, had you, have you ever moved away from Philly and lived other places? Or just you've gone and gigged other places, obviously, but any over the years? Have you ever contemplated going elsewhere?

Speaker 2: 48:03

Well, I was in New York for a little while, but outside of that, no, just Philadelphia. If I were to go someplace else, I love california, so I, I would love to be. I would love to be in la um, just because I like the weather and and I'm out there now, but, um, I you know I love the east coast yeah I, I, you know, I, I love where I am.

Speaker 2: 48:29

There's such a great wealth of players here and of course now, as you know, probably you're you're feeling the same way. I'm just rooted here. All my friends are here, like there, there's just such a great wealth of great guitar players, great, uh, musicians here, the guitar players here, I, I can name people like Kevin Hansen, which nobody knows, incredible guitar player. This guy, greg Davis, who's here, incredible guitar player, jimmy Bruno, who's here. There's all these great players. There's another guy that I play with we do this duo thing called Vahe Sarkeesian. He's a great guitar player. Chris Gordon's a great guitar player. I can go on and on and on. There's many, many great guitarists here and we all respect and help each other. Everybody here that I know is not all about themselves. Oh man, it's, it's not.

Speaker 2: 49:34

I guess I'm too old for that now I understand maybe I'm just too old for it and like, my thing now is just like you know, I just want to play music and and play with people that I love and make music with people that I really love. You know, like I did, I've done music with everybody I've done. You know I was Michael Cimbello's musical director. You know I've played with Bootsy Collins. I did three records with him. You know, the last record I did with him was Worldwide Funk with Eric Gales and Buckethead were on that too, wild Brian, but you know all those but Bootsy was. He was another guy that was really really good to me.

Speaker 2: 50:21

I was playing at NAMM. I was playing at NAMM and Bernie Worrell watched me play and said, hey, bootsy, you got to see this white kid play guitar, come over here. So, you know, and I met Bootsy that day and Bootsy said, hey, man, let's, let's start doing stuff. I'm like, yeah, right, ok. Well, you're Bootsy Collins. Yeah, ok, right, right. I gave him my email and like Two days later, you know, I had a track and an email hey, joe, it's Bootsy, what can you do with this? That's wild Two days later. I mean, you know, you know, you know NAMM. I met a lot of people at NAMM.

Speaker 1: 51:02

Sure, and that doesn't happen to your point. I mean, you meet a lot of people and a lot of people say a lot of things, and then every now and again they follow up and you're like I, I can't believe that just happened you like all the stuff you've done since I've known you.

Speaker 2: 51:21

I met you like maybe eight years ago and you know, and I I mean I knew you were great back then. I remember the first time that I really met you was across from the show when you and I we were all staying at the Hilton Garden Inn. Remember that year?

Speaker 1: 51:37

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2: 51:38

Yeah, and you and I were eating breakfast and I had known about you, but I hadn't really seen you play yet. But I remember we were sitting down and then you said, all right, really seen you play yet, and but but I remember we were sitting down and then you said, all right, it's time to go. And then you stood up and I'm like, oh my God, this guy's big and like my jaws hit the ground and I'm like, oh my God, man, I got to talk to this guy more. Some of his stuff know. But, um, yeah, yeah, we meet a lot of people at NAMM. That's how I met Bootsy. It's how I met. I met Santana at NAMM, um, and that was through Andy Timmons okay, sure, andy yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:24

So, andy, um, andy watched me play and he, he, oh, yeah, man, you're a great player, and all this. And, and I was playing in the booth and Santana walked by and I didn't see him and he, he, I was playing and he grabbed my hand and shook my hand and I'm like who is this Jake of my hand? I look up and it's Carlos Santana Wild. And so he, he walks. It's Carlos Santana Wild, and so he walks to the Mesa booth right, which was right past wood violins at that time. If you remember, the Mesa booth that year was the cafeteria, was right in front of me. I was playing for the Andrea Fender and we were demoing Wawa pedals Snarling Dog's Wawa pedals.

Speaker 1: 53:13

Snarling Dog. I remember that.

Speaker 2: 53:16

I would just play the tracks. So Carlos went into the Mesa booth and there was this long line of people and Andy Timmons said come on, come on, I'm going to get you to meet Carlos. And then that's how I met Carlos Santana that year Wild yeah. And he gave me a quote for my website. That's cool. Quote Carlos and he goes uh, yeah, and he stood there and he goes Joe, keep doing what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 53:46

We need you Awesome, yeah, awesome. Well, listen, my friend. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. It was great hearing your stories. I always enjoy them immensely. I encourage people to check out your stuff, to go to your website, which is just Joe mass.

Speaker 2: 54:03

Yeah, joe masscom. Or or just go to Facebook or Instagram. It's just Joe mass and Joe Mass 94, les Paul. You can find that at Instagram and then just Joe Mass on Facebook and TikTok. It'll go to everything Perfect.

Speaker 1: 54:22

Yeah Well, listen, you have a good one. Say hello to Jimmy Bruno for me, and also say hello to old Danny Gold.

Speaker 2: 54:28

I will Love you, Greg.

Speaker 1: 54:30

Likewise, my friend. It was a pleasure, Great seeing you. Great seeing you too. Have a good one. We'll talk to you soon. See you later. Bye-bye, Folks. Thanks so much for tuning in. We certainly do appreciate you stopping by and partaking in the most savory chewable gristle this side of Cucamonga. Gregory Cock, looking forward to seeing you again next week, even though I won't actually see you, but I'll sense your presence.