EMS@C-LEVEL
As Forbes, Entrepreneur, Fast Company and SCOOP writer, Philip Stoten, continues to talk to EMS (Electronic Manufacturing Services) executives he learns more about their individual and collective experiences and their expectations for their own businesses and for the entire electronic manufacturing industry.
EMS@C-LEVEL
Breaking Barriers: AI and EMS Collaboration with Zollner Elektronik AG and Luminovo
Join me as I chat with Xaver Feiner, Vice President Marketing & Sales, Zollner Elektronik AG and Sebastian Schaal, Founder and managing Director of Luminovo about their groundbreaking journey to streamline the EMS prototyping process. We explore how customer feedback drove the need for speed and agility in prototyping, and how Luminovo’s user-friendly tool enabled customers to effortlessly place prototype orders. Xaver shares how this tech-forward approach has been warmly embraced, even in an industry that traditionally values face-to-face interactions. Meanwhile, Sebastian sheds light on the critical balance between digitization and maintaining the trusted B2B relationships that define the EMS world.
In the second part of our conversation, we dive into the transformative power of digital self-service solutions beyond just the quoting phase and their most recent collaboration. Hear about the challenges and rewards of integrating these tools across supply chains and why collaboration with customers and suppliers has been more straightforward than expected.
Finally, we explore the strategic partnership between Luminovo and Zollner, Europe's largest EMS company, and how their collective expertise is pushing the boundaries of industry innovation through digitization and the adoption of AI. This underline Zollner's approach to partnering with world leaders in enabling technologies and their unique and insightful approach to partnerships the are enduring and mutually valuable.
Learn more about Luminovo at http://luminovo.com and Zollner at https://www.zollner-electronics.com/en/
Like every episode of EMS@C-Level, this one was sponsored by global inspection leader Koh Young (https://www.kohyoung.com) and Adaptable Automation Specialist Launchpad.build (https://launchpad.build).
You can see video versions of all of the EMS@C-Level pods on our YouTube playlist.
Hello from my home to yours, welcome to EMS at Sea Level. Today I'm joined by two gentlemen to talk about a recent news release regarding the use of Luminovo's product at Zolna. We've got Zava from Zolna and Sebastian from Luminovo. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1:Zava, let's start with you. You've had a collaboration for more than 18 months now with Luminovo on the with Luminovo on the rapid sample product. Tell me a bit about how that came about and a bit about the deployment and the success you've had with that.
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. Why did we start with that activity? It came back to the fact that we do regular customer satisfaction service with our customers and we got the feedback that it would be appreciated to have a much more agile process, especially when we talk about prototyping and samplings, and this was the reason why we started the process to figure out, ok, how can we accelerate all this process? And Luminova at that time already started with their solution and this was more or less the start of a collaboration with Luminovo to give customers easy access and an easy way to place orders for prototypes and we call it rapid samples in our house, and we absolutely loved it from the very beginning because the tool was very efficient and very intuitive, so there was no necessity to train anybody. It was a login process and it was very easy for everyone from the start to work with the tool. And this was, from our perspective, also a start for a really nice success, not only with our customers, but also with Lumino as our partner.
Speaker 1:And it's great that you loved it. It's even more important that your customers have enjoyed using it. What's the adoption been like? Have you been surprised how keen your customers were to use something that was perhaps digitally native rather than what they used to?
Speaker 3:Definitely, because the EMS industry is still very face-to-face oriented and also will be. I think that's very important. We are a trusted-based business relationship but nevertheless, especially when we talk about rapid samples and prototypes, speed is of the essence, and we also know in early stages of a product. Datas are not perfect and there is definitely an exchange needed with the customer to figure out okay, is that exactly this version of the product you really want to have? And with a digitized solution, you have the possibility and the opportunity to reduce friction to a maximum, because with the collaboration platform that Luminova has in place, it's much easier for customers to really place that what they want. And that's why, of course, at the beginning we were a little bit how should I say? Careful to figure out what is the first feedback, but at the end the feedback was fantastic because everybody saw the value add of the tool.
Speaker 1:And that's essential, isn't it, sebastian? I think one of the key things that you have to do as someone operating in the EMS space is understand where it's appropriate to apply software and AI and where it's not appropriate, and see where the maximum value and the maximum benefit can be gained. That's a really important part of what you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think what also Xaver said is when we kind of started to look at the whole industry right from and like bird's eye view, many people said, oh you know, this is an industry where you should build a marketplace or anything like that. And we looked at it and really said we actually disagree. We think, exactly like Xaver said, this is a very much trusted B2B relationship-driven business, but what's lacking is, in a sense, the digitization to make these collaborations that are kind of already in place more efficient and bring them to the next level.
Speaker 2:And that's, I think, from the first principles, what we always thought when we were designing our product. First, it was mostly for internal use. But even internally there's already collaboration between some different users in the organization and we said, like, intuitive design and easy-to-use solution should be a first-class citizen, because, yes, yes, that will make the adoption internally easier. But internally you could, in theory, still train people and so on. But once you then unleash it to your customers or potentially suppliers, like they're, like the ease of use and like native onboarding becomes basically the essence, right, only then people will self-adopt and start using it.
Speaker 2:And that's why I think we were, from day one went so long on intuitive design and a cloud-native solution that allowed multiple people to collaborate. But then, as you said right, it's always finding the balance of what are the processes where you can, in the background, automate and what are the processes where you need expert opinions or different opinions, and when that's the case, you should make it very easy to collaborate on exactly that decision. So I think having that balance is extremely important, which is also why we kind of market also our system like this kind of co-pilot mode. Right, that it's the idea of not put everything on autopilot but make the tool a assistant that can really help different stakeholders in the value chain to do the job most effectively.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it, zava? When we think of software companies coming into the industry. They often want to reinvent process and give us a new process that is fully automated. But if they look, as Sebastian has, at the existing processes and think, how can we reduce friction, how can we accelerate those processes, how can we manage traceability in those processes, and just make them better, it's a much more sensible strategy and that's probably the reason that you've had success with this and the reason that you're moving on to the next project. Tell me a bit about the project that you're announcing today, the collaboration you're announcing at the moment.
Speaker 3:Perhaps I may make a comment to that. What you said before and I think that's very important also for future developments when we talk about software In our industry, process is key. So having solid processes is absolutely the key for high quality and speed in moving things from one end to another. And with this kind of tools, we have the ability to combine usability so ease of use for software tools, with the processes, and it's not a copy and paste of a process flow into a software tool. It's a user-centered way that it's most easy for someone who wants to place something in a way that is most intuitive and the process is done in the background without having you have to place information there and there and there. It's not that bureaucratic way, and this was very important for us and, talking about future projects, this will be also very important for the future.
Speaker 3:What we definitely want we want to have tools collaboration tools with our peers so partners, customers and so on that are as intuitive as possible. So we don't want to start trainings for using software tools and for using collaboration activities. That's very important because at the end, the value add for our customers is key and we want to have more and want to give more transparency in the activity. And we want to also address younger generations, who have always been working with internet and we all know from our private usage how we use apps and tools and how easy it is in private life to get access to information or to buy something. And this is what we want, not in the full extent, but in smaller extent. Also access to our business partners, that they get easy access to information and also place one or the one or other process in a collaboration tool.
Speaker 1:Okay, sebastian, from your point of view, talk to me about where we are so far and what this next phase of development looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think, as you said, we kind of started with what's the kind of first nucleus that we can really try to see where this adoption of a self-service customer facing collaboration portal will go. And of course, the obvious answer was like prototyping, um like small batches and the quoting stage of prototyping, and I think, like we have seen a scavacet, great feedback but also the appetite of people to one go, um like basically into more complex orders, like one like more complex products, but also even move to serious production. Right, we had people trying to put like kind of batch sizes that are normally rather considered pre-serious into the tool, kind of clearly indicating to you that this kind of stealth service function is something that's not just limited to prototypes but something that people would also be looking forward in a serious production. And of course, that's the one vector.
Speaker 2:And the other vector is, of course, that the customer journey only starts in the quoting phase, but it kind of continues with many, many different touch points that you might have Having your demands in place, changing your demands, seeing your forecasts, seeing inventory levels. You have changing your demand, seeing your forecast, seeing inventory levels. You have Having all these kind of touch points that currently require you to write an email to your account manager, maybe strategizing about it. All these touch points could have a digital counterpart that people could self-service on and could really strengthen this relationship. And I think these are the kind of two vectors that we try to explore, like along the customer journey and kind of upstream in complexity when it comes to volume and to the types of product that we can bring into the self-service fashion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then when we look at supply chain, I think it's really interesting when we you know, you mentioned in the press release the disruptions we've seen recently in the supply chain and how they've taught us that we need accurate and timely information. What we've also found through that process is it's perhaps been easier to collaborate with our customers than perhaps some of our suppliers. When you look at these solutions, you've got to get everybody in the ecosystem on board. You've got to get all the stakeholders on board. I, I, I'm not concerned who answers this, but how hard or how easy it is.
Speaker 2:It has it been to bring that ecosystem and that group of stakeholders together so maybe from my point of view it um, it was also from a software perspective we really said, okay, we have to think from the solutions that they are one that drive enough value inside the organizations that we can adopt them without either customers or suppliers having already adopted the tool. Right, so ideally you try to first install a modem everywhere before you start monetizing or engaging the traffic, and that was a key in this. So the whole engine that's behind the whole RFQ quoting portals can be, of course, mostly used internally for internal quoting processes, and having these nucleus in place can then start drive first conversations. Right, for us, dems are the key people because they are the central part of the supply chain. Right, they have interactions to suppliers on the one side and customers on the other side, so PCB manufacturers, distributors, component manufacturers, as well as the OEMs.
Speaker 2:And I think that was the core part having that first nucleus in place and then being able to start conversations and allow that this conversation can happen without the other side having already bought into the solution, but just getting looped in. And if they then decide, hey, I'm actually, I want to also lean into this new ecosystem, they could also like, get like their own, like instance, and thereby have some additional benefits, but always make it like an, an opt-in version for the others to collaborate, so that you can don't have this like chicken and egg problem, that both sides have to adopt the tool and no one really can get started yeah and zaba, from the point of view of your suppliers reluctant participation or leaning in and really seeing the value and the friction it takes out of their processes as well- Definitely the second Phil, and this is what is surprising me, and this also shows that it's exactly the right time to start.
Speaker 3:So there is no process where we have to convince our partners to really do that. In many cases, opt-in APIs, for example, are already existing. So there are the digital interconnections in many ways existing. That it makes it easy for us to do so, and, with all the trends to be more transparent in the supply chain, like all the new regulations coming out, the EU Supply Chain Act and so on, we nevertheless need all those informations about products, about origins and raw material information and so on.
Speaker 3:So this trend that is going on, this is already existing in the supply base, because these are life requirements that we have to our suppliers. And bringing this into combination and into value add, also with material streams, for example, in prototyping, this showed that the combination of both is really a big advantage. And, by the way, the supplier is the one thing, the customer is the other thing. We had no case where any customer said, no, we want to have it the old school way. So everybody said, wow, that's cool, give me login datas, let me try around a little bit. And, as mentioned before, this was the effect that we experienced. So we see a very open-minded situation at the moment to really deal with this kind of technology.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's really fascinating to see where it's going. The quote you have in the press release from Marcus I think was really interesting and the idea that the Zona would be a company kind of at the forefront of this process fits in very much with the Zona DNA of thinking really hard about brand new technologies, about how they're applied, how they offer you benefit, how they offer your customers benefit to your business model, and then being very strategic about who you select as partners to do that. Tell me a bit about the selection process with Luminovo and kind of where you see that partnership going further down the track.
Speaker 3:So we have always had the statement that a partnership has to really have the partnership. So our former CEO always said partnership is not something where the one is the partner and the other one just ships. So it has to be really on an eye level discussion, to be very open and to be very honest and to have a specific base of self-understanding each other. And that's exactly what we have with Luminogo, because Luminogo and Sebastian and Timon and the team they are electronic people, so they know the EMS industry, they know how the ecosystem works, where we are located, what we are doing and especially what EMS is also not doing. That's, in many cases, more important to do so. So the interaction with dealing with requirements and understanding what we need is a very easy one.
Speaker 3:So we really see this as a partner. This is not a software design partner. This is really an ecosystem partner who is able to translate ideas and to translate processes into the right customer experience. Exactly that. What everybody is expecting and this is really key, because that's the most differentiator between B2C business and B2B business In a collaboration tool like Luminovo is it's not just the designer and it's not just the guy from purchasing. It's an ecosystem of different peoples with different interests, and we have to fulfill all these interests into the right user experience, and that's the challenge in a B2B collaboration ecosystem, and this is exactly that what Lumino was able to do was able to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sebastian, it's exciting to be in the position of that strategic partner with Europe's largest EMS company and also a company that does have a reputation for leading the market in terms of technology. I guess from your point of view it gives you the opportunity to really look at a high performance player in the sector and consider where you can add value, where you can remove friction, where you can make stuff move faster and maybe happen in a more streamlined manner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, 100%, as you said.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think Zollner has experts in any different field you probably you can look for, and I think having having the opportunity to really sit together with the different stakeholders, really talk about the day-to-day challenges and where they see like potential for digitization, allows us to also rapidly test hypotheses that we have already learned from like get new input and develop new hypotheses and then really turn this into like a really good also strategy for us to extend the scope of our like software suite and really learn early on what like a success criteria could look like Right, so how, what are the desired interaction and so, and having someone who's really that like big and open with us to share how processes look like, what the friction points are, and we do, of course, the same right I think that's something that's really unique and extremely valuable for both sides the extended trust, the open communication, almost zero politics.
Speaker 2:That is, I think, very special because we as a startup have that DNA of trying to be quick and trying to innovate fast. But of course, you need a counterpart that's also leaning into a partnership like that, that they can really work with you in that way, and then this is, I think, the perfect breeding ground for great solutions that to come out that are then also valuable, as Sava said, to the whole ecosystem. Right, because that's, I think, what our, in a sense, aim is that we want to basically just be the infrastructure provider for the industry that allows all the people to do their job that they're doing anyway better, like and like, decide what the digital strategy, what they should be like, and just don't worry about the software infrastructure below and just know that we are kind of trying to become the industry standard partner to help everyone fulfill their strategies better, and I think that's the unique position that we can now be in with Solon and Dini. So much into this partnership.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's essential for you as well, zava, when I look at it from your point of view. We all know that AI is going to disrupt the way we do things and it's going to have an impact in all kinds of different areas. And to try and build the muscle and have that expertise in-house and do it in an isolated manner without seeing what's going on elsewhere doesn't make sense. So having a partner like Luminovo that really does have that deep domain expertise and, as you say, with your help, but also within their background there's that understanding of how the electronic manufacturing service industry operates, so that's huge for you. Are there any particular areas that you're already recognizing as opportunities for AI, or do you think it is largely in the kind of business processes that we're looking at first, rather than on the shop floor?
Speaker 3:Well, we have been working with AI and also with our partner, tiki, for a couple of years already to really figure out okay, where can we bring value-add through AI into our manufacturing environment, our manufacturing environment?
Speaker 3:And what we realize now is also to go this, to do this process into the business areas, or go into the business processes and really figure out how can we change not only change process, but also get rid of the one or the other process, because AI does the work. You know, and this is what we are actually working into. Very honestly speaking, everybody's talking about AI, but first of all, you need to have the right data structure to really be able to do this, and that's very important for us to have the right lake house structure in our system environment and then bring the right data sources together. That really I can work with, especially when it goes not only into ERP data but also mixing MES data with ERP information and that's a very important base. And with having the aspect of Luminogo now in, we have all the puzzle pieces that are needed to really get traction on and to accelerate all these processes.
Speaker 1:It makes absolute sense to have that collaboration, to have that deep domain expertise and to have that platform where you can build those layers and layers on top that are going to add value to you, add value in your business, but also add value to your customers. Congratulations on the collaboration. Gentlemen, thanks so much for your time and thanks for talking to me, and look forward to talking to you both again soon. Thank you again soon.