Intimate Covenant Podcast

The Hard Work of Great Sex [147]

September 18, 2023 • Intimate Covenant -- Matt & Jenn Schmidt • Episode 147

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In this episode, Matt & Jenn discuss some of the challenges to great sex and the work required for the rewarding, lifelong journey of an intimate and fulfilling sexual relationship.

  1. Believing that great sex just occurs spontaneously and effortlessly is actually preventing us from achieving good sex.
  2. Great sex, like any other mastery, is the product of consistent, intentional work over time.
  3. Take responsibility for your part in growing your sexual relationship. Then, commit yourself to learning, cultivating and expanding your sex towards greater oneness.

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Open Door Financial Advisors www.opendoorfa.com
Where finances meet faith and family.

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  Cherishing,
  Matt & Jenn

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 www.intimatecovenant.com
Intimate Covenant | Matt & Jenn Schmidt

Speaker 1:

Hey, Jen ready to get to work.

Speaker 2:

Uh, work, is that what you're calling this?

Speaker 1:

Great. Today on the podcast, we're going to discuss why great sex takes lots of hard work. Let's do it. Welcome to the Intimate Covenant podcast, where we believe the Bible and Great Married Sex both belong on your kitchen table. That's right. We're talking about holy covenant bound intimate relationships with hot sex.

Speaker 2:

We're Madden Jen, founders of Intimate Covenant. We offer biblical teaching and resources to help married couples achieve a fuller relationship and an extraordinary sex life. For more information, visit our website, intimatecovenantcom.

Speaker 1:

Welcome, friends.

Speaker 2:

Welcome. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker 1:

Here we are again, and we are in full retreat mode. We are. This is the week For those of you that are joining us. We are very anxiously awaiting to see you and get to hug you Super excited.

Speaker 2:

We are up in our office and if you could only see the chaos surrounding us. I did make sure that for those watching on YouTube, like cleared off behind us, it looks so lovely and relaxing.

Speaker 1:

Yes, but formerly the plants and centerpiece was replaced by boxes of all kinds. Yeah, two minutes ago there were boxes all over the place. Here we are.

Speaker 2:

It takes a lot of little details, but we're so excited. It's definitely our favorite weekend of the year.

Speaker 1:

For sure it's going to be great, also one most exhausting. Well, that too, we won't go there. That's part of the fun. We do it to ourselves every year and we always enjoy it.

Speaker 2:

We keep on doing it because we just love to see just the relaxation and the enjoyment of the couples that come and join us. I mean, it's just amazing to us to get to dig into all these new and different topics every single year. We keep on saying it, Matt, that this year our favorite.

Speaker 1:

It's going to be incredible and, like I said, we're very excited to see those of you who are joining us, some old friends meeting some new friends, and all of us are going to spend a great weekend together, along with Justin Gerhart and his wife. So, yeah, we're very excited about that. We're going to contain the fangirl, not geek out too much, but that is pretty amazing.

Speaker 2:

So if you're not part of one of the 50 couples joining us, you should feel jealous right now. Yes, and you should go ahead and make plans to join us next year. So on our next podcast, we will release the dates officially of what next year's retreat is, because it'll just keep getting better.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, make your plans and or bring us to your community, and we'd love to see you there and we can bring a little taste of the retreat to your neck of the woods. That's right. Again, we'd certainly love to meet you at a Marriage Day event in and around the country, as we have been doing. So, as alluded to in the intro, today's conversation is about work.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, specifically, I think today, Appropriate because of all the work we've been doing. There has been some work involved.

Speaker 1:

But today on the podcast, really what we're getting at is that we're talking about the fact that we are not naturally good at sex.

Speaker 2:

I think many of us thought that we were supposed to be able to figure this stuff out on our honeymoon, right? But you know, especially if you were raised at all with understanding of save sex for marriage, you think, okay, now that we can have sex, we're going to figure that out. And it's going to be incredible.

Speaker 1:

And we're going to have incredible sex for the next 50 years from the first night on, and if I just save myself for marriage or if I just find that perfect someone, that everything will be so amazing and they'll be blissful honeymoon and we'll just keep going and it'll be all great. Or at the very least, we at least thought that sex would be so much easier than what it has turned out to be, and we thought that it would be so much better than the reality that we find ourselves in, particularly since our sex gets all tangled up in the emotional conflicts that often occur in our relationships. I mean, it turns out if you've been married more than five minutes, you realize that maintaining a passionate and meaningful sex life is hard work.

Speaker 2:

It is hard work. That's exactly right. You know what is not hard work, Matt.

Speaker 1:

What's not hard work?

Speaker 2:

Calling Derek at Open Door Financial Advisors. Do you like how I slip that in?

Speaker 1:

there, well done, well done. Jen's getting in on the jokes.

Speaker 2:

I am. Look at me. It is not hard to give Derek a call. Just one phone call, one email, one click of a website will get you the help that you need. Derek is so good at helping his clients solve financial problems and build a future around their values and their dreams. So, whatever your problems are or maybe just you don't have problems, but you need to just work on the maintaining- success.

Speaker 1:

Maybe you just have money pouring out of your pockets and you just need to know what to do with it.

Speaker 2:

That's right, derek is your man. It is not hard to give Derek a call. He is there to help you with all of your financial needs, from estate management to just learning how to handle your finances, how to pay off debt.

Speaker 1:

Paying off debt, whatever might be. Whatever your money touches in your life, derek can give you expert and personalized advice about how to handle that, in particular, from the perspective of how to do so in a way that is God honoring, in a way that prioritizes your family, your faith and your eternal goals. That's what Derek is there for. Find Derek and Open Door Financial Advisers at OpenDoorFAcom, where finances meet faith and family.

Speaker 2:

Right, it's mad. I think a quote that really sums up this whole topic by Sue Johansson says sex is perfectly natural, but not naturally perfect. I love that quote. I feel like that really captures the essence of today's episode. We think sex is natural In a physical sense. Our bodies are created to come together, male and female. Because of that, we think that it will all just work out. We'll figure it out. As her quote is saying, it isn't actually natural. Perfectly natural, right.

Speaker 1:

It isn't naturally perfect. It's perfectly natural, but it doesn't get perfected on its own, without any kind of input into that system. I think it's both a combination of arrogance, perhaps, and also, adding to that, some ignorance, that leads us to this misconception that we are, or that we should be, naturally good at sex. Because we aren't, particularly if we have not had any kind of specific training, and many of us and we've talked about this in episodes in the past many of us have a background where our sexual education and our sexual experience is quite limited, particularly when we get married, when we are first married, we don't know what we're doing.

Speaker 2:

Right and that's by God's design. That's not wrong.

Speaker 1:

But we haven't had any instruction to really help guide us. We don't have mentors in this realm, and so many of us just simply don't know what we're doing. We do what we think we should be doing because we've seen some stuff on TV or we've read it in magazines, or we've watched porn God forbid Whatever it is we've got, or we've heard the conversations in the locker rooms or from our girlfriends or wherever it might be. We have all of these resources and many of those resources maybe are not all that good, maybe not all that helpful. The desire might come naturally. We probably have some desire to have a great sexual relationship and our basic anatomic and physiologic functions work. But truly becoming good at sexual intimacy is not just a natural occurrence. It doesn't happen on its own. Believing that it just happens spontaneously and believing that it just happens effortlessly in many cases maybe most cases is exactly what's preventing us from achieving good sex.

Speaker 2:

Right, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Here's what I see when people come to our marriage retreats like it's going to happen this weekend or they come to one of our seminars, especially when one of the planned topics of a session is going to be about sex, what I think we see in the audience is the uneasiness on some people's faces, and I think that uneasiness probably is coming from the fact that you are secretly hoping that you will both learn something, but at the same time, you're also hoping that you will not learn something, Because to have learned something means that there's something that I didn't know before and that requires me to admit that I don't know everything about sex.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it is so interesting to me how often we come up against this roadblock within us that we just don't even want to work on our sex lives. We understand, we have kind of a basic understanding of, yes, sex is what married people do. God created sex in some form or fashion. We often cloak that with a whole lot of shame, definitely cloak that with a whole lot of silence, and then we just think that the answer we maybe don't really enjoy sex, we maybe have a sense of we probably could do this better, but because of that silence and shame we think the answer is just do nothing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's good enough, so let that be.

Speaker 2:

And we hope, maybe at the very least, like we have this sense of well, if maybe our spouse will figure out how to do their part.

Speaker 1:

Well, right, the same people that have that uneasiness about whether they're going to learn something or not in this session also have this mixed feeling about whether they think they want their spouse to learn something. You kind of hope that your spouse is going to learn something about themselves that will make what they're bringing to the bed better, but you really are hoping they're not going to learn something about you, or I'm really hoping I'm not going to learn something about me, because surely the problem in our relationship and the problem in our bedroom and in how we're communicating or not communicating about sex, surely that can't be my fault.

Speaker 2:

Right. And if my spouse would only do this or not do that, then everything could be so much better, right? These are the misconceptions that we approach our sex life with.

Speaker 1:

But great sex, just like any other mastery, whether it's cooking or gardening, or painting or whatever it is great sex, just like any other mastery, is the product only of consistent and intentional work over time.

Speaker 2:

Right, and so I think that means that we have to start by first recognizing that we have some ignorance in this.

Speaker 1:

Right. There are things that we just don't know.

Speaker 2:

Right, and again, I think that that is by God's design. I mean, you shouldn't enter into marriage already knowing everything there is to know about sex, right, like that's. Something is not quite right there. So yeah, we should enter in with a sense of like we've got Lord willing a lifetime to figure this out, but we should have a desire to improve. Well, sure Because we have that ability, but so many of us allow ourselves to just get stuck.

Speaker 2:

We just don't really want to confront the fact that there is something more to learn and there's something more to learn about myself, that it's not just my spouse's fault, whatever my sex problem is, and whether that's we don't have enough sex. We have too much sex. One of us wants it more, one of us wants it less. We think that the problem is our spouse. If only their desire for sex would change, if only their desire for how we do it would change in some way. We just want to blame it on our spouse, but often your lack of accountability, motivation, communication and skill are all part of the problem?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's definitely all part of it. It's not your spouse's job to make it better for you. You've got to take ownership of what you want, because if you're waiting for your spouse to make this better, there's a good chance that that is not going to happen and, frankly, you don't have control over that anyway, no, and so, whether you're a pursuer or a responder, it is your job to make your sex life better, and you know that the saying is if nothing changes, nothing changes.

Speaker 2:

So if you want something different, then something has to change.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, be something different. You have to take ownership of it. Stop blaming your spouse, stop waiting for them to change.

Speaker 2:

Right. Change something yourself. Start with first recognizing you are a vital part of this. You have a part to play.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about maybe just a couple of key ways where that is something that we could, that's something we could do. How do we make this change? Where are some places we can look, what are some things that we could do, what are some attitudes that we could change? And, specifically, one of those attitudes that has to change in a lot of cases is I would beg you to choose one partner.

Speaker 2:

Yes, Doesn't that feel like something that we don't need to say on this podcast? Or married people?

Speaker 1:

You would think I mean. The aim of our podcast, of course, is married couples with Christian values who believe in a biblical perspective of sex.

Speaker 2:

But let me just say so on the surface they look like they have chosen one part Sure right.

Speaker 1:

But I would say that there are many married people, even Christian married people, that are distracted by others, whether they are real or whether they are fictional, and that would include, of course, pornography. And yes, if you're looking at pornography, if you're using pornography, I'm calling you out. You are not committed to one spouse.

Speaker 2:

You have not chosen one partner.

Speaker 1:

If that's the case, that's right, but porn comes in a lot of different ways in a lot of different places. These days, you can find porn on Hulu or Netflix, on TV, in movies, in books, but you can also yeah, in books you can also be distracted by coworkers. Are you sexually distracted by your coworkers because you just simply let your mind go wherever it pleases? Are you distracted by unrealistic ideals? Do you have an expectation of your spouse that is unrealistic and therefore you are not striving after your spouse. You're striving after a version of your spouse that is not realistic or healthy or helpful? Right?

Speaker 2:

right, and so choose one partner. Choose the partner that you have chosen. Choose that partner as they are today. Now, we obviously all want to grow in who we are as people and are health as individuals, both emotionally and physically and spiritually. But you have to start by choosing the partner that you're waking up beside today.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, choose them today and choose them every moment of every day. Now again, there's nothing wrong with motivating your spouse towards something that is better and hopefully you are not afraid to be motivated and be held accountable by your spouse. But ultimately, I need to choose them as they are today. Choose them and pursue them. Your spouse must be your standard of beauty. Your spouse, if you're a wife, must be your standard of masculinity. Your spouse must be the only object of your desire, whatever that is.

Speaker 2:

And so carefully guard your heart against any outside source that might be trying to reform your standard of beauty. Learn to see your spouse as that standard of masculinity and beauty, because it matters, and how you view your spouse in your heart completely affects your actions. So it has to start first with choosing your spouse.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, I would say. Once you've chosen your spouse and obviously I think that's fundamental to all of this if you want to make your sex life better, you're going to have to do some work to remove those other distractions. But I would encourage you to learn and again, I think I don't want to give the wrong impression here with this podcast and maybe some of the way that we've been speaking about this could be misinterpreted that we're encouraging you that to improve your sex life you've got to do some new and crazy things. We're not asking you to learn about necessarily even new sex techniques. What we're asking you to do is to learn your spouse. But sometimes other resources and outside sources can be helpful to reframe the way that you think about sex, reframe how you pursue it, how you perceive it, and it can also be helpful to reframe your relationship as a whole.

Speaker 2:

Right and I think, thinking about this from the Pursuer Responder type dynamic, for a responder it is vital that you learn that sex is for you and you embrace that you have a role to play in this and that there are great benefits to a great sex life for you. Sex is not just something you give into. Sex is not just something that it'll be a whole home sex life and that's OK. You have to be willing to learn about yourself, to challenge yourself, to lean into the. Why do I feel that way?

Speaker 2:

If you have negative emotions about sex. Don't just be OK with that. Why do I have those emotions?

Speaker 1:

One place to start this process is we've just launched a brand new e-course. You can go to our website, intimatecovenantcom slash shop and at that shop or slash courses, you can find it. Either way, our e-course. It's there. You'll find it if you search for it. But that is a place that you can begin that conversation, both with yourself and with your spouse, to learn, and the name of the course is what does sex mean to my spouse?

Speaker 2:

Right, so this is a great place to start learning. How is it that my spouse views sex? Now? The great thing about this e-course is that we start with first challenging you to understand what do I think about sex, and then move from there.

Speaker 1:

Starts with exploring my own attitudes about sex and then, hopefully, being able to express that to my spouse and have them and hear my spouse explain their perspectives in sex and what are the motivations that we each have. What are we looking for when we both come to the marriage bed? What are we looking for? How are we satisfied in our sexual relationship? What are the rewards for each of us?

Speaker 2:

Because it's different for each of us and so if you want to improve your sex life but you don't want to talk about sex, it's not going to happen?

Speaker 1:

It's not going to happen.

Speaker 2:

Because you have to be willing to listen to your spouse. You have to start the conversations. That alone is how you improve your sex life. It's not actually finding new positions.

Speaker 1:

It's not the.

Speaker 2:

Cosmo magazines right. The real way in which you start changing your sex life is you start listening to your spouse, you start communicating. Don't assume that you know what your spouse actually wants.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think a lot of pursuers are guilty of this and they assume that they already know the best way to do this. They already assume they know what is best for their spouse, they think they know what is best for the relationship, and so pursuers miss this. I think, a lot.

Speaker 2:

But I think responders miss this too, because they assume if I just do X, y, z, my pursuer spouse will be satisfied and they're not realizing that what their pursuer really wants is the heart connection.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I think sometimes we just miss each other.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we're too much assumptions. Yeah, two shifts passing in the night Communication, not enough communication. For sure Somebody should make that rhyme, you know like it sounds a little bit better.

Speaker 1:

And I would also add I mean just because you had this conversation with your spouse last year, last month, last decade, whatever it might be, your spouse likely has changed and your spouse has the right to change.

Speaker 2:

And you want to be married to someone who is growing and changing and is dynamic and willing to change and eager to change.

Speaker 1:

So keep having the conversation, keep asking. That's exactly right. That's right.

Speaker 2:

And I think it's important also. We're talking about listening to our spouse, but you've got to also listen to yourself, and we kind of talked about this a little bit earlier. But it has to also involve leaning into challenging our own thoughts. Why do I feel the way I feel? Frankly, asking ourselves what does excite me, and again, speaking as a responder, you might be tempted to be like nothing. Nothing excites me, but that is not true.

Speaker 1:

That's definitely not true.

Speaker 2:

There are definitely places that you are connected to sex. So what happens that gets you there? And then how can you be recreating that on a continual basis? And maybe what doesn't excite me? Maybe equally as important Right and what holds me back from a willingness to participate and a willingness to experience desire.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and what's holding me back and when I have these desires, where are they coming from? Those are, I think, all important places to explore. The other thing is I think that's important for every sexual relationship is a little bit of novelty. And again, we're not suggesting that you go out and do something exotic or crazy. That's not what is required for this. But I mean, even in Song of Songs, the bride here is telling her beloved. In Song of Songs, chapter 7, verse 13 specifically talks about things, new as well as old, which I have laid up for you. She says oh, my beloved.

Speaker 2:

Right. She sees the value in both the comfort of the familiar, but also the eroticism of the new. Yeah, absolutely, and you as a couple can define what equals new. It does not have to be some great big, wild and crazy thing. Do you imagine or not prescribing that?

Speaker 1:

Sometimes it's just switching sides of the bed or whatever it might be, but we are encouraging and offering and hopefully trying to tear down some of the walls that have been unnecessarily built around sex, particularly in some of the more conservative circles. We're encouraging you to expand your experiences freely, but within the borders of what God has, where God has placed limits, and certainly it is essential and important to have that conversation about where God's borders are. But I think often we confuse God's borders with our own preferences and we draw lines where God has not, and so we're just encouraging you to have that conversation. Sometimes the conversation with your spouse will still lead you right back to the same familiar, comfortable place where you want to be, but be open to find new ways and fun ways to play with each other in the marriage bed. I think the single most valuable tool to me in my mind, and the single most important tool that you have to improve your sex life is the lifelong commitment of marriage.

Speaker 2:

The world would tell you, that's where your sex life dies.

Speaker 1:

I would wholeheartedly disagree with you because you, in a committed covenant relationship where you have two spouses who deeply care and love each other, you have the potential to have sex with that same person literally thousands of times, and I just feel sorry for those of us who have been led to believe that the best sex is going to happen on our honeymoon or when we're young, because that is not the design. The beauty and the benefit of covenant marriage is that it is lifelong and therefore we have a lifetime to grow and to perfect and to learn about one another. That is where the beauty of this relationship comes.

Speaker 2:

Because sex is meant to be a relationship, not an act, and Satan wants to convince you otherwise, but we buy into it when we think well, sex is for the young, sex is for the healthy, sex is for the. You know, you name it. We have labeled where sex is and isn't okay within our married life, and that's just simply not true.

Speaker 2:

Sex is meant for the entirety of your marriage. Now again, as we've always said, redefine what sex is. Sex is sharing your sexual energies with one another. There's a lot of different ways that you can do that.

Speaker 1:

And over the course of a lifetime, and what you can do when you're young is different than what you can do when you're older. What you appreciate when you're young is going to be different than what you appreciate when you're older, but many studies agree with this idea, even studies done by pagan godless people. The studies suggest that sexual satisfaction in a relationship correlates with the duration of monogamous relationship, meaning that the longer you are with someone, the more you have sex with them. The more you build relationship, the better your sex becomes. In fact, there are some studies that say that the peak of sexual satisfaction for a couple peaks roughly 17 to 24 years into the relationship.

Speaker 2:

That is not what the world would tell you.

Speaker 1:

No, I mean how many of you listening have been married for less than 25 years.

Speaker 2:

You have not peaked yet, you may not have peaked yet.

Speaker 1:

And I'll tell you, even after 25 years, I hope you haven't peaked yet, right? Because repetition itself, repetition itself only creates a habit unless you're being intentional towards growth. And so that means if you want to peak late in life which we all do, right, we all want to peak at the very end of our life. But if you want to peak, that means you have to be willing to keep growing.

Speaker 2:

so keep doing that, keep being intentional about that growth well and and keep growing, keep practicing, keep experimenting with one another, and, I think, within that, avoid, though, focusing on just a single experience, whether that's past or present or future. Yet you know, if we can get so caught up in one experience, we can set ourselves up for this is gonna be the end, all be all yes, and we can obsess about that one particular thing, or we can write and we can think when my spouse finally agrees to do this, this will be the climax of it all.

Speaker 2:

Or we can on the on the opposite end of that, we can just beat ourselves up because something we thought was gonna be wonderful turned out to not be yeah, great, maybe it turned out to be embarrassing or it didn't turn out the way you wanted to, or shortcomings in some right means or way but the reality is like you said, lord willing, you too will have sex together thousands of time. Well, if you look at it that way, does one thing really you know matter.

Speaker 1:

Do you even remember it? One bad event is let is a tenth of a percent is still one out of a thousand and so don't obsess about single experiences.

Speaker 2:

Set aside those expectations of you know greatness yeah, yeah just learn to be present in the moment. Sometimes that means that all you can do is laugh well that's for somebody else to do and try again later maybe or maybe not, whatever but just learning to enjoy the feelings of that moment being present in that moment, be present there.

Speaker 1:

Maximize those moments as an opportunity for connection well, and that's how that is.

Speaker 2:

The key to it all is that you have to see that the gift being offered to you in that moment is not some amazing position. It is your spouse showing up and wanting to connect with you, and so seek that with one another and serve each other enthusiastically by giving each other the gift of connection because, ultimately, that's our goal that's always what it should be about.

Speaker 1:

It's not about the act, it's not about this one great position or thing or means or ways.

Speaker 2:

It is about the connection and pursuing that every time that's right, and so when we focus on sex as just an act, as just a thing that two bodies do, we miss it. Sex is meant to be a lifetime of relationship together. It is meant to be a place of connection with one another. We can't achieve any other way. And when we focus on it that way, man, you just see God's goodness and God's grace and and his joy and his love for us in this gift, and why wouldn't we seek wholeheartedly to put in the work? You know we don't come to God with just hey, I'm good enough, you happy with that. Why do we come to our spouse that way?

Speaker 1:

yeah, it's a good point. That's a great point actually. Well, let's wrap this thing up. All right, I don't think I can say any better, just like Mike dropped on you just Mike drop, so I think we should just call it a day we'll call it a day.

Speaker 1:

Give us a wrap up that believing that great sex just occurs spontaneously and effortlessly is what is actually preventing us from achieving great sex, because great sex, like any other mastery, is the product of consistent, intentional work over time. So take responsibility for your part in growing your sexual relationship and then commit yourself to learning and cultivating and expanding your sexual relationship towards greater oneness and connection now it's time to grab your spouse in your Bible and head to your kitchen table to have the conversation about the work a good sex life truly takes.

Speaker 2:

How has your marriage benefited from focusing on improving your sex?

Speaker 1:

life together.

Speaker 2:

What steps can you take today to prioritize your sex life and, in so doing, prioritize the health of your whole relationship?

Speaker 1:

we would love to hear your feedback. Contact us by emailing podcast at intimate covenant calm or go to our website to submit an anonymous feedback or question. Go to intimate covenant calm slash podcast and click on the button contact the podcast for an anonymous submission form. Thanks again to Derek and open door financial advisors again for sponsoring the podcast you can contact you should contact Derek at open door, at opendoorfacom, where finances meet faith and family thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing, rating and sharing the podcast, for truly humbled by your encouragement and your support.

Speaker 2:

Thanks especially to our patreon subscribers for coming alongside us in a very real way. We love you and if you would like to join intimate covenant by supporting this podcast and our greater mission to spread and share God's plan for intimate marriages and holy sexuality, you can join us by subscribing at patreoncom.

Speaker 1:

Slash intimate covenant until next time, keep striving and don't settle.