![Separate Bedrooms & Separate Bedtimes [163] Artwork](https://www.buzzsprout.com/rails/active_storage/representations/redirect/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaHBCSE9YMWdJPSIsImV4cCI6bnVsbCwicHVyIjoiYmxvYl9pZCJ9fQ==--16a7a1aa52b68621d66462aebffd3502de544348/eyJfcmFpbHMiOnsibWVzc2FnZSI6IkJBaDdDVG9MWm05eWJXRjBPZ2hxY0djNkUzSmxjMmw2WlY5MGIxOW1hV3hzV3docEFsZ0NhUUpZQW5zR09nbGpjbTl3T2d0alpXNTBjbVU2Q25OaGRtVnlld1k2REhGMVlXeHBkSGxwUVRvUVkyOXNiM1Z5YzNCaFkyVkpJZ2x6Y21kaUJqb0dSVlE9IiwiZXhwIjpudWxsLCJwdXIiOiJ2YXJpYXRpb24ifX0=--1924d851274c06c8fa0acdfeffb43489fc4a7fcc/Podcast%20Cover%20Art%202022.jpg)
Intimate Covenant Podcast
Intimate Covenant Podcast
Separate Bedrooms & Separate Bedtimes [163]
In this episode, Matt and Jenn discuss the resurging popularity of sleeping in separate bedrooms. We'll consider the reasons why a couple might choose this option and whether it might be wise for your marriage. In addition, we'll discuss some of the consequences of spouses who have separate bedtimes.
- Every step we take away from our spouses, especially physically, has inevitable negative long-term consequences for the relationship. The decision to sleep apart should be weighed carefully and be constantly reevaluated.
- As much as is within your power, eliminate the barriers to sleeping together so that you can get be in bed with each other as often as possible.
- Likewise, separate bedtimes also promote emotional and physical drift away from each other, allowing opportunity for selfishness and betrayal.
As promised, here are the sources for the data that we referenced in this episode:
- Elsey, Taylor et al. “The role of couple sleep concordance in sleep quality: Attachment as a moderator of associations.” Journal of sleep research vol. 28,5 (2019): e12825.
- Drews HJ, Drews A. Couple Relationships Are Associated With Increased REM Sleep-A Proof-of-Concept Analysis of a Large Dataset Using Ambulatory Polysomnography. Front Psychiatry. 2021 May 10;12:641102.
- Richter, K., Adam, S., Geiss, L., Peter, L., & Niklewski, G. (2016). Two in a bed: The influence of couple sleeping and chronotypes on relationship and sleep. An overview. Chronobiology International, 33(10), 1464–1472.
- Troxel WM; Buysse DJ; Matthews KA; Kravitz HM; Bromberger JT; Sowers M; Hall MH. Marital/cohabitation status and history in relation to sleep in midlife women. SLEEP 2010;33(7):973-981.
- Chiao, Chi et al. “Loneliness in older parents: marital transitions, family and social connections, and separate bedrooms for sleep.” BMC geriatrics vol. 21,1 590. 22 Oct. 2021
- Larson JH, Crane DR, Smith CW. (1991). Morning and night couples: The effect of wake and sleep patterns on marital adjustment. J Marital Fam Ther. 17:53–65.
- Ulfberg J, Carter N, Talback M, Edling C. (2000). Adverse health effects among women living with heavy snorers. Health Care Women Int. 21:81–90.
- Gordon, A. M., & Chen, S. (2014). The Role of Sleep in Interpersonal Conflict: Do Sleepless Nights Mean Worse Fights? Social Psychological and Personality Science, 5(2), 168-175.
- Cartwright, R D, and S Knight. “Silent partners: the wives of sleep apneic patients.” Sleep vol. 10,3 (1987): 244-8.
- Cascais Costa C, Afreixo V, Cravo J. Impact of Obstructive Sleep Apnea Treatment on Marital Relationships: Sleeping Together Again? Cureus. 2023 Oct 5;15(10):e46513.
Please support these companies that support Intimate Covenant:
- Married Dance — https://marrieddance.com/?aff=29
Shop from this link and part of your purchase will support Intimate Covenant. - Coconu — http://www.coconu.com
Your purchase helps support Intimate Covenant AND you get 15% OFF. Coupon Code: intimateconvenant
To send your comments, questions and suggestions, go to our website: www.intimatecovenant.com/podcast and click on the button: “Contact the Podcast” for an ANONYMOUS submission form. Or, send an email: podcast@intimatecovenant.com
Thanks for sharing, rating, reviewing and subscribing!
Cherishing,
Matt & Jenn
www.intimatecovenant.com
Intimate Covenant | Matt & Jenn Schmidt
Hey, Jen want to talk about sleeping in separate beds.
Speaker 2:I thought you would never ask.
Speaker 1:Great. In this episode we're talking about separate beds and separate bedtimes. Is a good night's sleep more important than a single master suite? Let's do it. Welcome friends.
Speaker 2:Welcome.
Speaker 1:We are Matt and Jen, and this is the Intimate Covenant Podcast where we believe the Bible and great married sex, both belong on the kitchen table. That's right. We're talking about godly marriage and hot sex and emotionally fulfilling oneness in your marriage.
Speaker 2:Hey, matt, did you know that, according to the National Association of Home Builders, the number of home buyers looking for two master or primary and secondary bedroom suites rose from 25% to 40% between 2003 and 2018.?
Speaker 1:Interesting fact. I did not know that Actually, I did know that because I did the research for this but many of us probably don't recognize or realize how prevalent sleeping in separate bedrooms has become, but we'll talk more about that as we get into the episode. Before we get there, though, we want to make you aware of two important announcements.
Speaker 2:That's right, First one being we are doing a Kingdom Singles event in our own backyard. We've done these across the nation and we've traveled for various marriage days and marriage weekends, but never one here in the Houston area. So we heard you loud and clear, Houston peeps, and we are having a Kingdom Singles event in the Woodlands.
Speaker 1:Texas, just north of Houston.
Speaker 2:That'll be on Saturday, july 20th. Our target audience is unmarried young adults like 20-ish, 30-ish kind of.
Speaker 1:We won't be checking your IDs we will not. We are looking to target adults, not necessarily the high school age.
Speaker 2:No, we've done stuff for high schoolers, but we're moving up to the 20s and 30s and our topics will be finding spiritual purpose while unmarried. We're also going to spend some time talking about struggling with sexual desire as a single individual and how to go about dating with righteous intention.
Speaker 1:Some important topics, I think, for those who are unmarried, and obviously our primary purpose and goal with Intimate Covenant has, I guess, traditionally been working with married couples, but we also recognize that singles deal with a lot of these issues and there is certainly some overlap in what we've done with married couples and singles. But we also want to challenge these young people and encourage them in their walk. Being unmarried. They certainly have some unique challenges to their situations, but it won't be all you know boring lecture with Matt and Jen. It's also going to be some opportunity for some socialization socializing, I should say, and fun yeah. So we're very much looking forward to that event and for engaging with those young folks.
Speaker 2:So not many singles are listening to our podcast, which means we need you, our married friends, to help spread the word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, save the date. That is again July 20th. If you can save the date, then we'll get some information out and broadcast that through the various channels. But save that date, july 20th. Of course, we also want to mention our annual retreat.
Speaker 2:That's right. September 19th through the 21st this year, that's a Thursday through Saturday. Through the 21st this year, that's a Thursday through Saturday. Our theme this year, it's desire reigniting emotional and sexual connection in your marriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're very much looking forward to that. Lots of preparation underway for that. We do have a really exciting announcement with respect to the retreat. We now have a game plan and a host, an entertainer, as it were, for our Thursday night kickoff. That's right we will be having a game show night specifically curated for an Intimate Covenant retreat and audience.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's going to be a game show with an intimate covenant twist.
Speaker 1:Yes, this has been created and will be hosted by our good friend, josh Metcalf, who is here locally in Houston, worships with us, and we've been good friends for quite some time. If you don't know Josh, you should simply know he is absolutely hilarious and extremely creative, particularly when it comes to making games.
Speaker 2:Yes. So he has created a whole wonderful evening full of games, and there's going to be lots of fun. There's going to be lots of comedy.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And there will even be prizes, prizes, yes.
Speaker 1:And the good news is, no single person will have to be embarrassed. No, no, don't worry about being called to the stage if you don't want to be called to the stage, but plenty of opportunity for those who want to really compete, and everyone will have a chance to win some fantastic prizes.
Speaker 2:It's going to be fun. We're really looking forward to that. But the whole retreat is going to have plenty of time for relaxation, uninterrupted conversations with you and your beloved, and there are only a handful of spots remaining.
Speaker 1:Literally not very many spots left, so if you would like to come, we still have room for you. We want you to be there. You can reserve your spot for just a $200 deposit, with the balance not due until the middle of August, so you got plenty of time to reserve your spot. Save up for the rest, but be sure and sign up and join us. We really want to have you there. The topic this year of desire is going to be, I think, a really helpful one to help us reignite our marriage and the passion in our marriages. So that is our plan. It's going to be great. You can find it at IntimateCovenantcom. Slash retreat. That'll get you to the registration page.
Speaker 2:All right. So getting into today's topic, this episode comes from no less than three different couples at recent events, all posed to us a very similar question. We've also received a few emails regarding this question and so within the last couple of months, it's really been interesting.
Speaker 1:All of these questions have come up uh same time, so that was a signal to us that we need to do an episode on this topic that's right, and all of their questions had to do about sleeping in separate beds and or having separate bedtimes.
Speaker 2:So some of the questions, for example, were what is your opinion on sleeping in separate rooms? This is due to different sleep schedules and snoring.
Speaker 1:Another person asked what if the husband works nights and the wife sleeps in a different place than the husband? We do make time for weekly alone time.
Speaker 2:And then another question, uh, and we hear this one a lot sure our young child screams for hours if one of us does not sleep in the same bed with her. Because of this, we have little time with each other in the evenings and we are rarely having sex. How can we get closer as a couple?
Speaker 1:all great questions, all, uh, challenging questions. I think all of us that have been married, particularly with kids, have struggled with this to some degree or another, whether it's newborns that don, one of you is a night owl and the other is a early bird, and so many couples struggle with having different sort of circadian rhythms, if it were, as it were. So, historically, though, this is also an interesting topic, as I kind of dug into this a little bit in doing a little bit of research for this episode. It's just an interesting topic, and I wanted to at least share some of the historical and cultural significance to this topic, I think one it may be informative for you, but also I just thought it was interesting and relevant, I think, to this topic. Interesting, um and, um, you know, relevant, I think, to this topic. Um, I, I think it's safe to say that in general, across cultures, throughout history, that co-sleeping with your spouse has been the norm, right, generally speaking, broadly speaking, right.
Speaker 2:We kind of associate that with something that married people do sure right and how.
Speaker 1:It's also safe to say that in Western culture between around the 1850s to the 1950s, twin beds were viewed as the preferred sleeping arrangement for upper-class married couples, that is, separate beds and even separate bedrooms. For example, dr Edwin Bowers, whomever he might be, wrote a book called Sleeping for Health in 1919. Quoting from that book, he says separate beds for every sleeper are as necessary as are separate dishes for every eater. They promote comfort, cleanliness and the natural delicacy that exists among human beings.
Speaker 2:The natural delicacy.
Speaker 1:It's very very properly put. I can't necessarily disagree that it is in some ways more comfortable, maybe more clean, but that was his opinion. His educated pontifications about how we should sleep the shame-filled and puritanical sexual taboos of the Victorian age around that time probably, however, were fueling, at least to some degree, this unfounded medical advice of his time. In fact, did you know that Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip slept in separate bedrooms for their entire 75-year marriage?
Speaker 2:I did not know that.
Speaker 1:That is remarkable. Hopefully they didn't spend all of their time in separate bedrooms, but at the very least they had separate bedrooms and they slept at least in separate bedrooms.
Speaker 2:Did you learn that from the Crown?
Speaker 1:No, I did not.
Speaker 2:You don't think that that's a historically accurate telling? I have no idea. We'll see.
Speaker 1:Don't have a lot of interest in the British monarchy, but I do think it's interesting, though, that vestiges of this kind of, we'll say, sexually repressed thinking do show up even in popular early American television shows clips of I Love Lucy or the Dick Van Dyke show, where the couples their married couples are shown, at least on the television screen, as sleeping in separate beds.
Speaker 1:Even though they're in the same bedroom. They had separate beds, separated by a nightstand and a cute lamp, and they get in bed, say goodnight to each other across the space between these separate beds. You might be interested to know that one of the first couples to be shown in bed together on a television screen are Fred and Wilma Flintstone. Maybe they could get away with it because they were cartoons. I mean, they were from the future. No, they definitely were not from the future, no, but maybe because they were cartoons they could get away with it. Sure, but you might wonder why it is, why something so obviously out of place on TV? Well, in the 1950s and 60s there was this rule called the Hays Code, and it's a set of rules that dictated what could be shown on television and what could not be shown on television, and that code required that married couples sleep in separate beds when depicted on television.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:No idea how or why that came to be, other than I can just say sexual repression or at least an unwillingness to confront the reality of sex in marriage. There was this one foot rule that was enforced for these television couples, which meant that at least one person in the bed. If a couple was in the same bed at the same time, one of them had to have one foot on the floor at all times. I guess that gave some plausible deniability that they might actually be having sex in that bed.
Speaker 2:If one of them had their foot on the floor, surely you cannot be having sex in that bed if one of them had their foot on the floor. Surely you cannot be having sex if a foot's on the floor?
Speaker 1:I don't know how or why, but that that's kind of what came to be um in real life. However, by the 1950s, which is about the time of the dawn of television, um the onset of the by the, by that time, really, and historically really, at the beginning of the sexual revolution, at that time, separate beds were by that time already being viewed as a sign of a distant or failing marriage. Um, and separate beds, quickly, um into the 1950s, began to be discarded for double beds, or queen beds, or king beds, or even California king beds. How big of a bed.
Speaker 2:Wait, if a bed gets so big, then in essence you're maybe back to not sleeping together. It could be If you can sleep on either side of the bed and not touch at all, or even know that each other is moving.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's just another way to have separate beds, but by that time, the bigger your bed became a sign of status and it was also, I think, an underhanded rejection of these puritanical views of sexual shame. So again, what was on TV did not reflect the cultural views of the time and that's why that those kinds of depictions did not really last in popular media. Um, I that said, separate sleeping arrangements for married couples, um is really recently beginning to make a little bit of a resurgence. Experts estimate that approximately one in four married couples actually prefer sleeping in separate beds on a regular basis, and a recent survey found that up to one third of couples sleep apart at least occasionally, to help improve their sleep. This practice has begun to be referred to as a quote sleep divorce okay interesting so.
Speaker 2:So thank you for that historical deep dive into more than you ever wanted to know separate beds for married couples, but I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 1:It was it it was.
Speaker 2:It was interesting. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Maybe not, but I think it's maybe safe or maybe a good idea to start this conversation by considering what are some reasons that couples may choose to sleep in separate beds.
Speaker 2:Yes, not many of us are bound by TV laws regarding what's being depicted in our bedroom.
Speaker 1:There is no Hays rule for your bedroom.
Speaker 2:Good thing, all right. So real reasons for real life couples to be sleeping in separate beds. Well, like our questions alluded to, I think one of the main reasons, or often a primary reason, is health or medical problems.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Clearly this is the most common reason why couples would choose to sleep in separate beds is because of health or medical issues, including like snoring or sleep apnea.
Speaker 2:Or maybe an illness that might be temporary, or it might be a chronic illness or something like insomnia.
Speaker 1:Right Insomnia, or if you just simply are a restless sleeper and you don't want to keep your part, or your constant restlessness is keeping your sleeping partner, your spouse, awake as well. Yeah, that would be perhaps a reason that a couple might consider sleeping in separate beds or separate bedrooms.
Speaker 2:I think another reason that couples consider this is frankly because of different schedules. That couples consider this is frankly because of different schedules, like you alluded to, maybe your natural circadian rhythm one being a night owl, one being a very early bird but also things like work schedules, especially if one of you does shift work and has to sleep during the day and work during the night or have different hours like that.
Speaker 1:That certainly could be a reason to consider sleeping separately, so that each of you can get an adequate amount of sleep without disturbing the other Kids. I mean kids are a very common reason why couples may choose to sleep separately.
Speaker 2:At the very least not fall asleep together. Often there is, you know, a kid who won't sleep without a parent in their room, and so it's kind of evolved into one spouse is kind of going to bed with that kid, waiting till they fall asleep, but falling asleep themselves and ending up in that bed. Or it could be that the kid is actually in the master bed, or multiple kids are in the master bed and therefore there's no room for two spouses, there's no room for two adults.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so definitely, kids are a big factor here, and I think another reason that sometimes we don't want to admit is just simply relational conflict Sometimes, it's easier to not be together. We don't want to be in the same space together, we don't want to share any kind of intimate or close time together, so we choose to sleep separately and, frankly, that could be playing a role in all of these other reasons. A little bit of snoring could make for an easy excuse for me to just avoid being around you.
Speaker 2:Or letting the kid be in our bed provides a buffer between you and I, and I or the kid's needs come way above.
Speaker 1:you know where we should be relationally, so yeah absolutely Over the past few months and I think it's. I don't think it's a coincidence that we got all of these questions more recently, because over the past few months there has been an increasing number of social media posts and news articles and featured articles promoting this practice of separate bedrooms for spouses. I've noticed it even before we were getting these questions, that there has definitely been a resurgence in the popularity of this idea, and Cameron Diaz you may or may not care who that is, but she is a celebrity of sorts probably helped to further popularize this concept. Back in December of last year she said in an interview quote we should normalize separate bedrooms. To me, I would literally I have my house, you have yours, we have the family house in the middle. I will go and sleep in my room, you sleep in your room, I'm fine, she said. And we have the bedroom in the middle so that we can convene in for our relations.
Speaker 2:I appreciate your, cameron Diaz. You know interpretation Is that an interpretive reading.
Speaker 1:Well okay, cameron, well said, I think Real solid argument you have there. But she's not alone, she and her partner, husband, whomever that may be.
Speaker 2:I have no idea.
Speaker 1:Other celebrity couples, though, who are known to sleep apart, include folks like Gwyneth Paltrow and Brad Felchuk. They say that their separate living arrangement is the key to their marital bliss. Brad sleeps at his home three nights, and then he stays with Gwyneth for four nights.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Interesting arrangement Victoria and David Beckham, gwyneth for four nights. Okay, interesting arrangement. Uh, victoria and david beckham uh, this couple sleeps in separate beds in their country home, with his and her wings of their home, since, uh, as they said, their different lifestyles were causing problems for their sleeping arrangements he wants to decorate and soccer stuff and she does not.
Speaker 1:Maybe I'm sure that's yeah boils down to that. I'm sure the decor sarah jessica parker and matthew broderick um have separate beds in their townhome. Their townhome, of course, probably doesn't look like your townhome, because they have his and her wings of their townhome we don't have wings in our house.
Speaker 1:I don't think that qualifies as a townhome anymore. But interesting, Donald and Melania Trump this couple reportedly and reliably reportedly slept apart during their time while they were living in the White House. Interesting, Interesting Didn't know that about them? Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt You'd think they were a happily married power couple. This couple reportedly slept, lived separately I should say under the same roof until, of course, they were divorced in 2016. But again, another couple that had his and her wings of their home.
Speaker 2:I can't say that I would turn to any of those couples for marriage advice, nor would I think that I want to emulate them.
Speaker 1:But again, I get what you're saying, that this is something that's out in current culture has seen a dramatic increase almost double the amount of couples who are looking to buy a home that has two master suites, as it were, two primary suites, and so I think that says a lot. Now, there might be more than one reason why people are looking for en suite bedrooms Maybe they have grandparents living with them or something but it can't be denied that there are a lot of folks looking for two primary bedrooms His and her bedroom.
Speaker 2:Yes, his and her bedroom. It's a very interesting historical and culturally relevant topic, but does the Bible have anything to say about this?
Speaker 1:That's always the question, isn't it? I think it's probably safe to say that the Bible does not give specific instruction on whether you should or should not be sleeping in the same bed.
Speaker 2:Now Hebrews 13.4 refers to the marriage bed singular.
Speaker 1:Singular marriage bed in Hebrews 13.4, yes, but I think it's probably a stretch. I'm no biblical scholar of any certification, but I think it's a stretch to say that that would be authority to condemn separate sleeping arrangements.
Speaker 2:Probably can't base that argument.
Speaker 1:If you're a biblical scholar and you want to weigh in on that topic, we would invite your feedback. Feedback at IntimateCovenantcom. Let us know. But there are other important biblical principles of marriage here that I think that need to be carefully considered in how you choose your sleeping arrangements, particularly if you're going to go away from the norm, the historical norm, which is sleeping in the same bed as your spouse.
Speaker 2:So here's where we spin this towards. Great. That was a lot of great information, matt, but how does it apply to my life? Let's talk about the principles.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about that. So I think one important principle that needs to be considered is that our arrangements ought to help us avoid sexual immorality. So whatever we're doing in our marriage and that includes choosing how many beds we're going to sleep in and when we ought to be doing that with a mind towards helping each other avoid sexual immorality. That is part of the purpose of marital sex. It's not the only purpose, by any means.
Speaker 2:Well, and Hebrews 13.4, when it talks about marriage, bed is an allusion to the sexual relationship in your marriage. So obviously there's something very intended in the oneness of a one bed, exactly.
Speaker 1:And that's what 1 Corinthians 7 is all about is using marriage as a tool to combat sexual temptation. Combat sexual temptation. I think another principle here is the idea that in our marriages we are obligated to serve and to cherish one another. So does our sleeping arrangement serve and cherish our spouse? And maybe we'll talk a little bit more about what that might mean specifically in a few minutes. But again, maybe that could go both ways and I think I can see how you could make an argument one way or the other.
Speaker 2:Well, and then I think everything in your marriage should be for the purpose of building spiritual, emotional and sexual unity, and so that's an important principle to consider when we're considering even something like how do we exist within our home together?
Speaker 1:Yeah, does our sleeping arrangement promote unity? And again, that's an important consideration. So, like everything, almost everything in our marriage and the decisions that we make about one thing or the other, a lot of it comes down to what is my motivation or the other. A lot of it comes down to what is my motivation. Why am I choosing to do this? Because it's not always as easy as book chapter and verse. I can or can't do this. Most of the time it's about why am I doing this and what is my reason for wanting to do this.
Speaker 2:Well and clearly there's a difference in I need to sleep alone for the sake of getting better rest versus I don't want to be in the same space as you.
Speaker 1:Sure, yes, those are two reasons that we might give for why we want to sleep in different bedrooms. Now, we might not word it that way, right, but your motivation determines if your desire and your decision is righteous and if it's healthy for your marriage. Um, you know, giving each other the freedom to rest without interruption can be an amazing gift of service and an amazing gift of love for your spouse, particularly if you have a newborn or something else like that when the hours of sleep are few and far between yes, yes, cherishing your spouse by giving them a chance to actually get rest.
Speaker 1:That might be completely sacrificial on your part. On the other hand, sleeping together, even if it means less than stellar sleep, can be an important sacrifice of showing love to each other. So the same decision can be made out of sacrifice, or it can be made out of selfishness, and that's where the that's where the rubber hits the road, as they say. That's that's where it gets challenging to discern what are my motivations. Uh, in this, I would say, though, that every step that we take away from our spouses and and I mean that both emotionally, physically, whatever way every step we take away from our spouses has inevitable negative, long-term consequences for the relationship. So, if you are choosing to sleep apart, even if you're making that decision for good reasons, those decisions to sleep apart need to. If you're making that decision for good reasons, those decisions to sleep apart need to be weighed very carefully and to be constantly reevaluated. Is this serving my marriage, is this serving my spouse, or has this become a selfish motivation?
Speaker 2:Right, Because sometimes our initial motivation can shift right. We might be starting out with a pure what feels like a pure motivation of we got a brand new baby, I'm only going to get two and a half hours of sleep, so I'm going to put myself in a place where it's completely quiet so I can just cling to those two and a half hours. But over time, maybe if there's emotional relational conflict in the marriage but you know what, being in my own sleeping space, well, that's just easier. I don't have to confront those issues. So sometimes that initial motivation can shift towards self-serving motivation and maybe we haven't even realized that we've crossed that line.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:What starts out as something that's convenient can become an opportunity, then, for self-serving self-serving sin even, and might then be the foundation for building emotional, spiritual and sexual barriers in your marriage.
Speaker 1:That initial convenience, that initial act of service can sometimes be the foundation for building a wall between the two of you, and I think that's important to acknowledge and recognize. So I would also add I mean, we've been talking mostly in the context of sleeping in separate bedrooms, bedrooms but I would say that these principles also ought to apply, and also ought to be considered with respect to separate bedtimes as well. Now, it's not necessarily the same degree of separation as separate beds. Um, when you're not sharing a bedtime, though, you are opening a door to create some barriers. If you are not going to bed at the same time, again, sometimes just like perhaps buying a bigger mattress it can become a de facto means of sleeping apart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. Many of us who would scoff at the idea of separate bedrooms right, might actually realize that they are in fact participating in sleep divorce. Sure, because they're rarely actually in bed together awake. Right, exactly you know, if one of you falls asleep very quickly and very deeply, you're not even awake when your spouse comes to bed, you know. Does it even matter if you're in the same room?
Speaker 1:Sure right, right. You are missing out If you don't share a bedtime, if you don't share this bedtime routine, you're missing out on so many built in opportunities for connection, uh, opportunities for connection for um intimacy.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think why that is like what is special about bedtime? Well, when I think about it, I think what we recognize is that bedtime is naturally. It's disarming. It is vulnerable. There is something very vulnerable to going to bed together and even those moments of preparing to go to bed, of getting in bed with one another, that's meant to be a vulnerable time and those can create golden moments of conversation, of just simple cuddling, of intimacy on many different levels.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. And if you have kids, you recognize this. You take advantage of those opportunities. That's when things are relatively quiet, that's when you have focused attention of each other. It's an opportunity for some of those conversations that you just can't happen during the busyness of the day. It's a golden moment. It's a golden opportunity, and if you don't have the same bedtime you're missing that opportunity. It doesn't mean you can't make that up in other ways, but it is an opportunity.
Speaker 2:It is something you have to recognize.
Speaker 1:And so separate bedtimes promote emotional and physical drifting away from one another.
Speaker 2:I mean, that is the reality of separate bedtimes, and so that really allows for more opportunity for selfishness and betrayal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just lots of spouses, for example, lots of spouses who have been in bondage to pornography, will tell you that their sin gripped tightest while their partner was in bed without them. Just ask around. If you don't believe me, ask those that have suffered through that. It just creates opportunities for selfishness and for drifting apart.
Speaker 2:And you might be saying but that's not our story, we're not saying that's everybody's story, but this is a place to be aware what are the things that can happen when we choose separate bedrooms or separate bedtimes.
Speaker 1:If it's what you've chosen or if it's something you're considering, these are things you have to factor into that conversation. Chosen or if it's something you're considering, these are things you have to factor into that conversation. I would say, despite this recent modern resurgence in the practice of sleep divorce as it's been called, the actual scientific research is fairly one-sided about the benefits of co-sleeping with your spouse.
Speaker 2:Here you are pulling out a science, a scientific research.
Speaker 1:Let me just warn you. I read no less than 20 scientific articles about this and if you're really interested, I'll even include those in the show notes if you're interested in doing the research yourself. But let's and I'll use some air quotes follow the science on this topic. One study demonstrated that sleeping with your spouse promotes health by lowering the stress hormone, cortisol, and reducing the cytokines that are linked to inflammation. It's just better for your health to have someone sleeping beside you, contrary to the doctor that we quoted from the 1920s, sleeping together is also thought to boost oxytocin levels, which are known to lower anxiety levels and to promote connectedness in your relationship. In at least five other studies on this topic of co-sleeping, all of them confirmed that sleeping with a spouse improves your sleep quality, especially in women. For some reason, I don't know, couples with different bedtimes and again, that's not different beds, that's couples with different bedtimes have less sex and more conflict.
Speaker 2:And that's just what the science says. That's what it says. That's not Matt and Jen.
Speaker 1:Is that surprising? I don't think. If any of us really sat down and thought about it, that probably is not surprising, but it's not always what you hear and it's not always what we do.
Speaker 2:Right, right, I mean. I think it's no surprise that research validates that when you aren't sleeping well, you and your relationship will also suffer too.
Speaker 1:Sure, there's another side to this.
Speaker 2:It goes both ways.
Speaker 1:Definitely another side of this. Spouses of snorers more frequently report sleeping problems, insomnia, daytime fatigue and sleepiness. So therefore, wives of patients who are suffering from obstructive sleep apnea perceive their marriages as more stressful. If you're not sleeping, especially if it's because of your spouse, your marriage is going to be more stressful. More conflict was reported in romantic relationships following poor nights of sleep. If one or both of you does not sleep well, you are likely going to have more conflict the following day likely going to have more conflict the following day. Spouses of patients being treated for obstructive sleep apnea were significantly more depressed and socially isolated. It has a negative impact on your personal well-being if your spouse is keeping you up at night. It is also perhaps reasonable knowing all of this. Again, this is probably common sense, but, again, the research also bears this out. It is definitely reasonable that a couple should prioritize a good night's sleep. How, then, do we balance the need for sleep with the clear benefits of shared bedtimes and sleeping together?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Particularly if you have these issues between you or among you in your marriage and in your marriage bed.
Speaker 2:Right? So where we land this podcast is what do Matt and Jen think, right? That's why people asked us the question, and we are not going to claim, like we never claim to have all the answers for your marriage or even for the marriages of those that posed these questions to us in the first place, but I think we have some thoughts about what every couple should be trying to prioritize. What that looks like in your marriage is between you and your beloved?
Speaker 1:Yes, but since our opinion was asked, We'll oblige, I'm not afraid, to give my opinion and at least some principles that have to be considered and thought about. And I will give you my urging, or my admonition for what I think that should look like in your marriage, to the best of your ability. One is go to bed at the same time. Whatever that looks like, whatever that takes, go to bed at the same time. You don't both have to go to sleep at the same time. Whatever that looks like, whatever that takes, go to bed at the same time. You don't both have to go to sleep at the same time, right, but you should both do whatever it takes to unite your bedtime routine, your nighttime routine, so that you are spending some quality time, even if it's just a few minutes. Yes, routine so that you are spending some quality time, even if it's just a few minutes. That few minutes of connection at the end of the day will make a big difference in continuing to build relationship.
Speaker 2:We know this because this was our story right. This changed everything in our marriage, because you are a night owl and most people know about me that I think 9 pm should be everybody's bedtime. Nothing should be happening past 9 pm. I'm a morning person, though, and you're not, and so we had to make a very strong effort. We recognized the detriment in our marriage that was happening because, especially when we had little kids, I was exhausted Absolutely and I went to bed and you did not, and that negatively affected us.
Speaker 1:Oh, it negatively affected our emotional connection, our sexual connection. It negatively impacted our entire marriage. So we made some sacrifices. One of us worked really hard to stay up a little bit later.
Speaker 1:By taking a nap during the day, whatever it takes, and one of us works really hard to get up a little bit later, and by taking a nap during the day it takes, and one of us works really hard to get up a little bit earlier than I normally would, and so we can blend our bedtimes. I don't fall asleep when jen does, no I?
Speaker 2:I hit the pillow and I'm out cold, right I? What do I do I? I pick up my book and I maybe read one paragraph and then my head's flopping and I'm out, and then I take her book out of her lap and I turn her light off. Yeah, you know what it looks like in that in Jen's bed.
Speaker 1:No, you don't.
Speaker 2:No, you don't, but yes. So again our opinion, and this is coming from what we have lived go to bed at the same time. It just creates more opportunity for connection.
Speaker 1:As much as it is within your power to sleep.
Speaker 2:At the same time, it just creates more opportunity for connection absolutely as much as it is in within your power. Sleep at the same time probably doesn't necessarily need to be stated, but maybe we'll go ahead and state it.
Speaker 1:If you're going to go to bed at the same time, go to bed at the same time in the same bed yes, whatever it is, whatever it takes, go to bed in the same bed, as much as that is possible, understanding that there are are sometimes some things that get in the way of that.
Speaker 2:But that principle should be your norm. That should be your norm. What you're striving for, that should be your goal.
Speaker 1:Yes, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And to that point, that means you probably need to get kids and or other distractors out of your bedroom. Yeah, um, you, you've got to do the work, whatever that looks like, to get things in order so that you have the opportunity to go to bed at the same time and in the same bed. Right, and I will just say if, if there is a time in which you must sleep apart, yeah, and I'm not we're're not condemning that. Okay, let's be clear about that. We're not condemning sleeping apart. There is some, perhaps some times where that might be appropriate. I would say, if you're going to sleep apart, though, number one, you need to very clearly and intentionally state and define your purpose for separate sleeping arrangements and, in so doing, set a timetable then to reassess your situation.
Speaker 2:Right, don't just stumble into this and realize, you know what? We're not sleeping together anymore, or we're going to bed at such different times that we are, in essence, not sleeping together. So this should be a very intentional decision and within that intentionality, you should have the conversation about when are we reassessing this?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And we have a timetable in which we are working again to make our norm, our goal, what we're striving for, that oneness of being together.
Speaker 1:You might get six or eight, six or months or six weeks down the road and decide you know what? We're in the same situation. We haven't been able to resolve these issues that are forcing us to sleep apart, and we might need to make the same decision again. But make it a decision. It should not be. It should not be your default.
Speaker 2:Right. And so within that conversation should be an assessing of what are our reasons for sleeping apart, and are those reasons selfish or are they serving? And ask yourself the question is our marriage better or worse because of this decision?
Speaker 1:and maybe it's both, and so you're going to need to weigh. How important is it that we continue sleeping separately? How important is it that we try to get things back together? Are we more or less connected because of this decision to sleep separately?
Speaker 2:And if you must sleep apart, then I think another important aspect is that you've got to be even more creative with your well-rested mind. You're right, your body should be well-rested mentally and physically to make an opportunity for emotional and sexual connection. So you've got to recognize that you are taking away a natural place where emotional and sexual connections can happen, and so you have to be intentional about putting that in in another way. So if you're sleeping separately, you have to work harder to connect, yes, and be intentional about it. And you've got to put in that new separately.
Speaker 1:You have to work harder to connect, yes, and be intentional about it. And you've got to put in that new energy that you have. You've got to put some of that energy to work in your relationship because you've created a barrier right. You've created this physical barrier between you that often turns into an emotional barrier. You're putting that between you. You've got to work harder to get past that and so use that energy and make the time to make those connections.
Speaker 2:I would say this is where scheduling sex would be very important for a couple like this. You need to know when are we having sex regularly, and that's maybe every Sunday night. You sit down and have the conversation. What does this week look like? What are the nights that we are going to be purposeful about connecting? Or the mornings, maybe it's we get up together. We might not be in the same room for whatever reason, but we're going to get up together. Or your work schedule and my work schedule are so off. Where are the hours where we do connect?
Speaker 1:And it might be fun to ask your spouse your place or mine One way to spin it. It could add some spice to your relationship, but I guess I can't deny that.
Speaker 2:But I think you need to be very sensitive to emotional or sexual drift in your relationship.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure.
Speaker 2:If you must sleep apart.
Speaker 1:So, as much as it is within your power, eliminate whatever the barriers are to sleeping together so that you can get to bed in bed with each other as often as possible. That might mean you've got to retrain your kids to sleep on their own in their own bedrooms, and that is going to be, in some cases, just terrible for weeks, right, it's no one's going to sleep for weeks.
Speaker 2:It might be a process, depending on how old your kids are, depending on what their sleep issues are.
Speaker 1:And what you've trained them to do.
Speaker 2:What you've trained them and, frankly, you might need to pull in some professionals. There are a lot of people specially trained in helping children sleep better. So don't just suffer and have your children suffer. Maybe you need some additional help.
Speaker 1:Don't accept that this is the way that it has to be. You don't accept that this is the way that it has to be. You don't want to your kids to be 20 years old and still sleeping in your bedroom.
Speaker 2:Oh, you definitely don't, but maybe it's.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's not kids, maybe it's health problems that are keeping you apart, and so be willing to address those health yeah, whether it's sleep apnea or snoring or restless leg syndrome or anxiety or whatever other issues that it might be, you need to address those things. Look, I'm just going to be frank with you. If your spouse can't sleep because of your snoring, you are a selfish jerk, and I don't mean that lightly. You're a jerk if you have not done everything possible to try to correct that problem.
Speaker 2:And there's a lot out there that can correct snoring problems.
Speaker 1:Depriving your spouse of sleep is simply cruel. That's kind of harsh. It's cruel. Why would you do that to someone that you say that you love? Yeah, it's just cruel. And look, there are so many options. Most sleep and snoring problems can be resolved with relatively simple interventions, and you should be doing something about that Now. I will add sleeping apart doesn't necessarily help you sleep better, even if your spouse is a snorer. Again, one more research study. Well, okay, maybe not one more, but in terms of sleep quality and the negative relational impacts, at least in one study there were no differences found between the spouses of snorers who slept in the same room and those who slept in separate rooms.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:Those spouses that slept separately. Their relationships were not better and they did not sleep better. Interesting result yeah, but again, most sleep and snoring problems can be corrected, and I would add to that in it. Okay, here's another study Couples who were sleeping separately due to sleep apnea among all those couples, couples who were sleeping separately due to sleep apnea among all those couples. 72 percent of these couples started to be able to sleep together again after treatment. Three-fourths of those couples, if they got treatment, they were able to sleep together again and among those, almost 70 percent of them said that their personal lives had improved and their spouses said. Three-quarters of them said that they recognized the benefit of therapy for themselves and for their spouse and for their relationship.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean the person suffering from sleep apnea. You're not getting the rest. You need.
Speaker 1:You're not sleeping either, right, so you're keeping both of you awake.
Speaker 2:Yes, neither of you are sleeping well, so it makes sense that those that got help their personal lives improved because everybody is sleeping better. Absolutely and sleep is an important thing.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Another problem we talked about was work, and look, I understand people got to make a living. Sometimes your best choice is to make a living working terrible hours, and I recognize that that is a sacrifice and I applaud you for making the sacrifice to do what it takes to provide for your family. That's important. I would not negate that. However, if you were in a job interview and your prospective boss said we think you're a great fit for our company and we want to pay you well, but this job is definitely going to be bad for your marriage and for your family, would you take that job? Some of you already have. Just to put it frankly, some of you have taken that job knowing that it's a bad choice for your marriage and a bad choice for your family, and we're blessed in this country that we don't have to keep the jobs that we have in most cases. So sometimes you just got to make a different decision.
Speaker 2:Maybe it's time to reevaluate the cost of your choice.
Speaker 1:Every choice has a cost. Sometimes getting a good night's sleep means that you are making a sacrifice to the quality of the connection in your marriage. So, again, we all have to weigh these choices and not saying it's an easy choice, not saying that this is an easy solution, not saying that you have to sleep in the same bed or that you have to have the same bedtime. We just think there's some wisdom in thinking about why are you doing what you're doing?
Speaker 2:Right, all right, this has been a long one. Hopefully we didn't put anybody to sleep. See what I did there. Wow, Good one honey, All right Nat Give us our wrap up.
Speaker 1:Every step we take away from our spouses, especially physically, has inevitable negative long-term consequences for the relationship. Negative long-term consequences for the relationship, and these decisions to sleep apart should be weighed carefully and be constantly re-evaluated. As much as is within your power, eliminate the barriers to sleeping together so that you can get you can get in bed with each other as often as possible, and likewise, separate bedtimes also promote emotional and physical drift away from each other and they allow for opportunity for selfishness and betrayal.
Speaker 2:So now it's time to grab your spouse and your Bible and head to your kitchen table to have the conversation about your bedtime routines, Whether you are sleeping in the same bed at the same time or not. Does your current bedtime routine promote connection or not?
Speaker 1:We would love to hear your feedback. Contact us by emailing podcast at intimatecovenantcom or you can submit anonymous feedback questions by going to our website, intimatecovenantcom slash podcast. You can click the button Contact the Podcast for an anonymous submission form.
Speaker 2:Thanks to all of you for listening, subscribing, rating and sharing the podcast. We're truly humbled by all your encouragement and support. Thanks especially to our Patreon subscribers for coming alongside us in a very real way. If Intimate Covenant has blessed your marriage, we'd love to have you join us. Subscribe at patreoncom. Slash intimate covenant.
Speaker 1:Until next time, keep striving and don't settle.