[00:00:00] Nola: "There is no failure except in no longer trying," said American philosopher, artist, and publisher, Albert Hubbard. We do love a good rags-to-riches story, don't we? And that got us to wondering: what is the difference between entrepreneurs who face setbacks and give up and those who won't let go until they succeed.
For many aspiring entrepreneurs, the road to success is filled with, potholes, roadblocks, and road closures, and that in and of itself is enough to stop them from even trying. But for some, those obstacles are nothing more than detours on the road to success. And those inspiring stories are what today's episode is all about.
Stay tuned friend, because we're sharing lessons learned from founders who failed before they made it. And one of those stories might just be the inspiration you've been needing.
[00:00:47] Lori: Welcome to Sticky Brand Lab, where we bridge the gap between knowledge and action by providing you with helpful information, tips, and tools from entrepreneurs and other experts, so you can quickly and easily jumpstart your side business.
We're your hosts. I'm Lori Vajda, and this is my co-host, Nola Boea. Hi, Nola. Hey, Lori.
[00:01:08] Nola: Lori, there's a lot of famous entrepreneur stories about failing and then ultimately becoming a huge success. And I think a lot of us are familiar with the stories of Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, Oprah, JK Rowling, things like that.
[00:01:23] Lori: Oh yeah, I would agree. And I think there are many people who fear failing. And for some, like the ones that you've mentioned, it's a stepping stone to their success. And let me give you a little bit of a few examples directly related to those names that you mentioned. So imagine. You're in dire financial straits.
You're a single parent. You have a passion for writing and you're counting on this book because some of your friends have enjoyed it and they're giving you positive accolades, so you send it out to publishers and one after another you get rejection letter and you're desperate. After 12 rejection letters, what would you do? Yeah, exactly. But for Rawlings, that wasn't an obstacle. She believed enough in her story so that when she did get a yes, she ran with it. And ultimately it turned out to be a huge success.
And let's take Thomas Edison. If you were inventing something, just knowing yourself, because I was calculating this for my own mindset. How many times would you keep working at something to try and perfect it before finally saying screw it, this isn't going to work?
[00:02:39] Nola: I have no idea. I would have to really have some understanding that this has got to work. This has got to work.
[00:02:45] Lori: Would you go a hundred times? 500 times for Edison because he did a thousand before he made it successful.
And here's something I didn't know initially about Henry Ford, but it inspired me a lot, which was he had two financial failures from the same backer before. He had a third attempt and a second investor that he found success. So, he started with the car in the late 1800s and 1904, they finally at the third attempt made it. Now imagine you're the investor. You're counting on this, or you're the inventor and you're counting on it, and it's costly to do. Not a lot of people, I think, and myself included, would go on, which is why we wanted to share these stories. Yeah. When you think about what makes a life worth living, if you've ever even thought about that, and I do occasionally because it helps me make some really important decisions, if I'm going to take a risk, I have to think to myself, is that a risk that I will look back on no matter how the outcome turns out and be glad.
That I did it, that I said, I tried and I didn't make it or I tried and it succeeded, but that try is the big one. So I believe that for anyone who's trying to make their life in particular worth living, at some point you're going to experience failure. I agree. Um, in thinking about like a single setback is often enough for most people.
And I believe primarily in the research shows this for women in particular to give up on their idea or their dream, something that they're passionate about, because maybe they Lack the experience, the familiarity of knowing how to do something new and novel, or even the knowledge to see it through. And because women tend to be more risk averse than men, that can set them back.
But I just want to throw out every once in a while, some interesting success stories came out of failures. One of the ones that comes to mind, it was a dietitian that was actually working on this recipe for gruel. Something you would eat in the morning. I think it's like along the lines of porridge or oatmeal.
And it tasted terrible. And the dietitian spilled it on the stove. It turned out to taste much better because the stovetop crisped it up. Any idea what this is?
[00:05:24] Nola: Was it those crunchy caramelly things? No, I have no idea.
[00:05:30] Lori: It was Wheaties. Oh my goodness. I know. Isn't that an incredible story? The dietician spilled it.
And I actually don't know if it was a man or woman, but when I said the women are more risk averse. The thing that I was thinking about in that moment was the dietitian. And then I was thinking about Wheaties. And so you're working on this terrible tasting gruel that you're trying to market. It turned out that it tasted better and it took another 36 tries before they were able to develop the tasty flake that wouldn't crumble in the box.
And that is probably known today as well. So isn't that interesting?
[00:06:09] Nola: That is fascinating. 36 tries and yet it often takes somebody just one failure and they just scrap the whole thing. And it's true. Women are typically more risk averse than men, but I'm hoping that more of us are like this dietitian that will at least give it 36 tries to perfect it, especially if they discover you're onto something.
[00:06:30] Lori: Yeah. So it's one of those happy accidents kind of thing. Yes. And that's a lot of what happened in some of the stories that we're sharing today and some of the businesses that we've grown to love their experiences as well.
[00:06:43] Nola: I think you're right. This is a preview of actually the benefits and the results of some failures. Is taking the risk part of a life worth living? I think that ties into the fact that sometimes you don't really realize your full potential until you take that risk. Especially when you take that risk and experience failure, because so often those failures serve as a catalyst for success, which is really what this episode is about.
We're going to talk, listener, about five entrepreneurial people, maybe more if we think about them, five entrepreneurial people who failed and some in excruciatingly public ways before finding their own version of success. And we're going to be talking about people. That maybe you haven't heard, we're not going to be talking about Edisons or Oprahs, but take our word for it.
These are women that are hugely successful in their own industries and the lessons they learned are still very important for any woman with the desire to build her own dream business.
[00:07:44] Lori: Now, having said that the very first name I'm going to throw out here is probably far well known, but imagine being early in your career.
And you take a big risk that you don't know where that is going to take you in the future. You just know that you're new in your career. You're passionate about what you do. So Nola, you're familiar with Arianna Huffington and the Huffington Post, right?
[00:08:11] Nola: Yes. Why do you ask?
[00:08:13] Lori: She's known for the Huffington Post, her passion as a journalist, and she's written 15 plus books. Early in her career, I believe it was her second book, she faced 37 rejections before finally securing a publishing contract. At the start we talked about JK Rowling's, but here's Ariana and 37 rejections. Would you stick around for that?
[00:08:42] Nola: I might put it on a dust pile and come back to it in 10 years or so.
[00:08:47] Lori: This is what she said. She said, by rejection 25, I would have said, Hey, there's something wrong here. Maybe I should be looking at a different career. But instead, she hung on, she persevered. And as a result, not only did she become a highly respected journalist and author and is known for publishing.
[00:09:09] Nola: That's an amazing story.
[00:09:10] Lori: So now I'm going to introduce a little story of a business that's the product was a failure. And part of the reason that we didn't include the businesses directly into what we're sharing is because many of the products that I'll be sharing with you are often started by men in general, and these in particular. And we really wanted to highlight some women who had overcome those obstacles, but I do love these product stories. So you're familiar with bubble wrap, right? It's essential for people packing and shipping things or getting products received. It's really big. The two engineers that developed it, actually developed bubble wrap in the 1960s in an attempt to create a trendy new textured wallpaper.
[00:10:03] Nola: Oh my goodness. Can you imagine? Not if you have kids, but I can totally see it with the 60s. 60s. Yeah. I guess that would be a soundproofing
[00:10:14] Lori: Until you popped it and then it's flat. So the wallpaper didn't work. Then they thought, Hey, maybe this would work for housing insulation. That didn't work either. It wasn't until IBM used it to wrap packages for their newly launched computer and they tried it out. It really became an overnight success because it protected the delicate computer that they had inside.
[00:10:43] Nola: They knew they had an awesome product. They just didn't know what it was for.
[00:10:47] Lori: Exactly. So you're going from the sixties to much later and all these attempts and it's everything that you're doing is like a failure idea, failure idea. And then somebody uses it in a way that you never intended and it's an overnight success.
Speaking of overnight successes, here's another story. Are you familiar with the name Janelle Monae Robinson?
[00:11:10] Nola: No, I'm not.
[00:11:11] Lori: She's a singer, songwriter, rapper, and actress. And she's been nominated for a Grammy something like eight times. And she's won a Screen Actors Guild Award and a Children and Family Emmy award. She tells this story about being fired before she made a name for herself. And I'm just going to read her little quote here because I found it fascinating.
This is what she says. I was working at Office Depot, pushing ink, and I was living in a boarding house with six other girls. I couldn't afford my own apartment. I was selling my CDs independently. I didn't have a computer. I couldn't afford it. So Office Depot, you guys have 200 computers on display and I used one to respond back to a fan who had seen me perform on the library steps. And then as I'm working at the computer, there's this voice of God that just came. Of course, it was Office Depot. Janelle Robinson to the back and I go to the back and my boss said, listen, we're going to make this easy for you. You're fired. Go do what you love. You don't want to be here.
The reason I loved her story is because she was doing a job to make ends meet so that she could pursue her passion. So she was building something around what she loved to do, what she wanted to do. In the course of doing that, sometimes it takes someone outside of our bubble to see that we're holding ourselves back. And most of us would think firing was taboo. It's something to be ashamed of. And here it really probably was not easy. I don't want to say that it was easy to get fired. You don't have a steady income coming in, but it probably made her pursue what she really loved that much harder because she had no choice.
[00:13:07] Nola: That's the impression I got when you read that quote, because it sounds like he was really doing her a favor, even though she may not realize it at the time.
[00:13:16] Lori: I totally agree with you. Here's another one. I'm going to share another product that was intended for one thing and became a huge success in something else. So this product is a medicine. It was intended to be used to reduce blood pressure. Any ideas what it was? No, I don't. It never made notoriety for the medication of reducing blood pressure, but it does make notoriety in another area. And instead of reducing, it increases. Still no guess? Coca Cola? No, it's Rogaine. Rogaine is for hair. Exactly!
[00:13:56] Nola: Wow! That's fascinating.
[00:14:00] Lori: Yeah. Okay. So back to our successful ladies. Are you familiar with Kara Carlton? She's known as Carly Fiorina.
[00:14:10] Nola: I recognize the name as having some bad publicity and I think she was in the political arena.
[00:14:18] Lori: Okay. So she was a former CEO of Hewlett Packard from 1999 to 2005. And at the time she was the first woman to lead a fortune top 20 company. She was also fired. So that's where her story comes from.
[00:14:38] Nola: Is this a theme or something?
[00:14:40] Lori: You know, firing gets a bad rap. I have been fired twice in my life, once as a teenager in one of my very first jobs. So I was like 15 years old and very immature and rightfully deserved to be fired. The second was much later in life after I had switched careers and it took me by surprise and I felt some shame around it. So I think the idea is that sometimes a firing or a letting go opens you up to pursue something that you might not have otherwise done because you were secure where you were, even if you weren't happy.
In Carly's story, it's slightly different here. I want to read this quote from Matthew Boyles of Fortune magazine because I think it makes her story that much more powerful. He said of Fiorina's hiring at HP and being the first woman CEO, he said, "Carly Fiorina didn't just break the glass ceiling, she obliterated it as the first woman to lead a Fortune 20 company."
[00:15:47] Nola: Was a gain on behalf of women everywhere, right? That was facing the glass ceiling at that time?
[00:15:52] Lori: And because of her role and she was pretty well known. So that meant that her firing was very public. But here's what she said about it. She said, "I was fired in a. Boardroom brawl. And you know why? It was because I challenged the status quo. And that's what a leader must do. And when you challenge the status quo, when you lead, you make enemies. And that's why few people lead."
Now, some people might hear her story and disagree with that and others who know her might feel differently, but she's got a point. When you're out there as that role model, there are a lot of people who are going to not be happy at your success and, and even try to undermine that. And for a lot of people, and women in particular, having that happen. Can turn us away from the thing that we have natural talent for. In this case, leadership roles. So a failure can be a setback or a stepping stone, or it could also be the thing that does us in and stops us from continuing to move forward.
So that gives me another story for you. This story is about the 40 attempts it took to make it a success. Any idea?
[00:17:20] Nola: All you've said is it take 40 attempts, so.
[00:17:23] Lori: All right, I'll give you a second hint. The name is in the attempts to make it successful.
[00:17:30] Nola: I have no idea.
[00:17:31] Lori: WD 40.
[00:17:33] Nola: Oh. Whoa.
[00:17:35] Lori: They were trying to come up with a formula for a degreaser and a rust protection and it took 40 attempts.
And so the 40th was WD 40. Oh my
[00:17:47] Nola: goodness. That's so cool. So I have a story for you, but first I want to preface it with the question as well. Have you ever said the wrong thing at the wrong time? Is that a stupid question?
[00:17:59] Lori: Yeah. You know what? Not only that, instead of shutting up, you continue to talk more
[00:18:06] Nola: to backtrack. Yeah, and we've all put our foot in our mouth, so to speak, and tried that horribly embarrassing backtracking. But few of us have done that in such a public way as Jenny Slate. I don't know if you've heard that name. Jenny was a cast member on SNL.
[00:18:24] Lori: Yeah. I'm a huge fan of SNL.
[00:18:26] Nola: I used to be, it's been a long time since I watched it, but I'm going to read a quote. And I think in this quote, she says a really important reminder for anybody who's made a really regrettable mistake. So here's what Jenny said:
"I had dreamed of being on Saturday night live. So when I got cast in 2009, I was so happy, but it felt like an explosion when I accidentally The F word on live TV during my very first sketch, Lauren Michaels and I never talked when I was fired at the end of the season. I got the news online. I've still never watched the clip of my F-up. That'll be like watching yourself fall down the aisle at your own wedding. It's important to let yourself go through all the emotions. But if you start seeing yourself as a victim rather than as all of the other amazing things you could be, it's time to snap out of it."
[00:19:21] Lori: I love that quote. That last part, too, because one of the things that is hard to admit if you haven't been fired, like there's certain jobs and certain industries where firing is pretty common and nobody gives it a second thought. And the one that comes to mind is sales. But this is comedy. So this is her passion or this is copywriting. And that was something that was very important to me that I took a lot of pride in delivering the best work that I could do. And when I was faced with that first time firing as a professional, it made me question my ability. So I totally get where she's coming from about giving yourself permission to feel all of the emotions, but don't stay there.
[00:20:07] Nola: Nope. That's good advice.
[00:20:09] Lori: So I've got another story for you.
[00:20:11] Nola: Okay.
[00:20:12] Lori: All right. You're pretty familiar with YouTube, right?
[00:20:15] Nola: Of course.
[00:20:16] Lori: Initially, YouTube as we know it today is not what it was intended to be at the start by the very talented developers. You know what it was intended to be?
[00:20:27] Nola: I have no idea.
[00:20:28] Lori: A video dating app. They just couldn't get women to go on and talk about themselves.
[00:20:36] Nola: Oh my.
[00:20:36] Lori: And they even tried paying women to come on and talk about what they were looking for in a man. And what happened is when they expanded out and gave other people an opportunity to do videos, thinking that it would get more people for the dating app, instead, people used it in other ways and that's how it took off. And that led it to the YouTube that we know today.
[00:21:02] Nola: Oh, that's fascinating. It's a good lesson about following the trail and being open about where it may end.
[00:21:10] Lori: And if you have an idea that you believe in, I think what I'm hoping is coming out of these stories is that just because you think it will work this way, and it doesn't, doesn’t mean it's a failure. Perhaps you just haven't found the marketplace for where it'll thrive. And that's what you should be looking for.
[00:21:31] Nola: That's a good point. And I'm going to tell you the story about Catherine Minshew. In 2010, Catherine quit her corporate job and along with three other co-founders, founded Pretty Young Professionals, which is an online community and a resource for young professional women. The four leaders clashed over a management issue. And so Catherine and another founder, Alex Cavoulakos, left the startup. And here's her quote. She said, "it felt like Overnight, we'd lost almost everything we'd worked tirelessly to build." That's not the end of the story though, because while that was a devastating loss at the time, Catherine didn't let it deter her and she leveraged the knowledge and experience that she'd gained developing PYP, Pretty Young Professionals, to launch another platform. So Catherine and Alex joined forces. And they started the Muse, which is an online platform that helps people with career development. And it paid off. It was really successful. She said, "we reached 20, 000 active monthly users in our first month, which was something it took PYP a whole year to achieve."
[00:22:40] Lori: Wow.
[00:22:41] Nola: Yeah. We were talking about lessons learned. And when it comes to lessons learned, one thing we hear is how failure builds knowledge and experience. And that certainly happened in this case. In a Wall Street Journal interview, here's what Catherine Minshew said as far as what she learned through that whole ordeal of pretty young professionals. I think it gives us some good advice. Number one, she said, discuss everything up front and out in the open. Number two, get everything in writing. She said, when it comes to business, you should never compromise on proper legal documentation. And number three, make sure everyone is on the same page before you make big decisions.
[00:23:22] Lori: It is really good advice. Failure is a classroom of itself and what you learn from it can really make a big difference. So I'm going to share with you my final product story as well, before we go on. You're familiar with Nintendo, right?
[00:23:39] Nola: Yes.
[00:23:40] Lori: Okay. In the early 80s, 1980s, Atari, I think was one of the first games out there. And there was very little success happening for Nintendo, at least in the beginning when you think of gaming or what we think of today and just how popular gaming is. Your husband's a gamer, right? Oh yeah. Here they launch what they believe is going to be a gaming company and it's crickets until 96. So it's a few years of crickets and wondering if they've made the right decision. And guess what it was that propelled them to the huge success that we know Nintendo to be today. It was a game with two little characters by the name of Mario and Luigi.
[00:24:31] Nola: Of course.
[00:24:33] Lori: Yeah, crazy, isn't it? That you develop a product. It doesn't go anywhere. You've got this idea for a game. You're ahead of the curve. And sometimes when you're first to market and you're introducing something, the rest of the world doesn't quite know how to use it yet. And so those early adopters are a smaller pool, but it takes a little bit to seed that. And it wasn't until the success of Mario Brothers that Nintendo really became the huge success that it is.
[00:25:04] Nola: Interesting. I love this quote from Oprah Winfrey, because I can so relate. She says, "there is no such thing as failure. Failure is just life trying to move us in another direction."
[00:25:16] Lori: I agree. I will also admit that in the moment of facing failure. That is not the thought that comes to my head. And I will be honest to say that I have thought in my head how some of my ideas would play out, and what I realized is that it took me many attempts at not trying things out to realize that the intention you have in your head is not how things play out in real life. If you think to yourself, Oh, that's not going to be successful or that path is not going to work or you face an obstacle to getting it going and think that's a sign it must not be successful or it won't be successful, I should quit right here. You can often be wrong. It's only in the moment of taking action. And I think that's what our stories have said. We put something out there with one intention and we saw something else manifest as a result of having it out there.
[00:26:22] Nola: That's a very astute observation. Thank you. There is a growing amount of research pointing to the idea that failure can make you better off in the long run. You don't even begin to understand how much potential you have until you acknowledge how much your failures have contributed toward your success. And now it seems that science agrees. Because according to researchers, learning from past mistakes is the key to success. For example, rather than throwing out a rejected cover letter and resume, those with a success mindset, instead of saying, okay, forget it. I obviously am not qualified for anything. They'll say, okay, which parts of this application should I rework? And which ones are the keepers? And the same thing holds true for a business ideas. If those with a success mindset will focus on, okay, what is it here that didn't work? So the person who was baking the Wheaties said, okay, I'm onto something that tastes really good. Let's figure out number one, this worked, this didn't work. Number 35, this worked, didn't work. And so it's like improving the part of the product or invention rather than scrapping the whole idea altogether at the first failure.
[00:27:34] Lori: Let me ask you, Nola. From either your own failure or any of the experiences that we shared here today, what has failure taught you about life, success, or your own strengths and abilities?
[00:27:47] Nola: We've been planning this episode for a while. And I have to say it has caused me to reflect on failures and cringe worthy experiences, basically, and to see them in a new light. I have about four things that I would say I've learned from. One is, it really can push you into a direction that you may never have considered or gone toward otherwise. and I guess it probably aligns with Oprah's quote I know that, especially in career wise, I tried a few things that just, it's like, it seemed like a good idea, but it obviously wasn't. So let me try this. And eventually, out of desperation, I moved into an area that I really had not considered and I ended up thriving. Who knows what would have happened if I hadn't been pushed in that direction.
Number two, failure can be a way of sparing you from an oncoming calamity that you don't know is coming. That's why I say "never curse your inconvenience." One example was back in 2019, I was having a really hard time getting people to sign up and register for a destination retreat event. My goal for having people signed up had long passed and it was just really difficult. In retrospect, I know how I could have improved marketing, et cetera, but that failure spared me from having all of the convoluted ramifications of having to cancel something when COVID hit. So that failure was doing me a favor because travel was about to be suspended everywhere.
Another thing I've learned is that your tenacity can be a thermometer of your passion for your cause, or if that cause is your business, it can really be a gauge for how much do you really want it?
There have been times where I've started a side business more as an escape from some job that I'm like really needing to get out of, and I needed to have some kind of a transition plan, rather than for my love and passion for what I'm doing. I would build it because there was a demand and I was good at it. Not that I was super passionate about it, but when it became really difficult, it wasn't enough, always for me to keep pushing through. Had I been more passionate and more really committed and really wanted to do that, then it probably would have been a big hit. But I guess I just didn't really want it that bad.
The final thing I can think of that. I've learned is that it can give you, I want to say a thick skin, but in a way that it puts things into perspective. You learn that you can dust yourself off. And while it's not pleasant, it's not the end of the world. After a while, failing isn't such a dramatic event. You learn that you can recuperate and having done that once and being able to look back and say, Oh, I lived to tell about it. I got through it. That means the fear of failure is diminished. And you're able to really dust yourself off. You don't have to beat yourself up and you can face risk with a little less fear and a little bit more perspective.
So that's what I've thought. What about you?
[00:31:01] Lori: One, I think that's really important is that we spend a lot of time trying to avoid failure rather than learning how to accept it. And by accept it, normalize it. Failure is normal, it's not fatal. But we put such a negative connotation around it. And part of the reason we wanted to introduce not only the people. But the products that started off in one direction and could be considered a failure before finding the success in a totally different way is to show that there is good that can come out of failure. But if you don't get into that pond and embrace it as a part of being a life worth living, Oh, I gave it a try. It didn't succeed this way. But man, it worked that way. Or it didn't succeed this way, but it taught me how to do something this way.
And I'll give you an example for myself. I went to graduate school to get a master's degree in social work and not because of the traditional social work title that people think of, but social work is at a master's level is a terminal degree, meaning I had many of the same privileges if you're licensed that a psychologist can have. If you want to get in the mental health field, it opens up a lot of doors and for some agencies or health care providers or even private practice, it can be a less expensive way than a psychology degree. It was my last class in which I discovered that I got into the field with one intention and that intention wasn't the best intention. So I stuck with it for 10 years. And I was good at it. I just didn't love it. I loved what I learned and I loved what it taught me. And I apply all of that every day in almost every area of my life. But I had to accept the fact that it wasn't something that I enjoyed doing. In that sense, I think of it as a failure because of how much money it took to go to school and how much intention it took to graduate and how important that was. And that's not the thing that I want to do for the rest of my life. That was one lesson.
Another lesson, perseverance can turn failure into success. I have a story, Tim Ferriss from the four-hour work week, he talks about trying to get his book published and he had 25 rejections. And when he got the offer that came in, after he had signed the contract, he asked them, why, what was different? I had 25 failures. What did you see different in the manuscript that nobody else did? And the publishing house said nothing. We can understand why the publishers rejected your work. But we aren't betting on the book. We're betting on you. We believe you will do anything and everything it takes to make this book a success. And I think that's a pivotal piece of turning failure into success is your customer, your partners, your investors, some are investing in the idea. But more often than not, they're investing in you to bring that idea to success. I think that is huge.
A third lesson that I've learned is, stay true to your vision. Steve Jobs said, you have to trust in something, whether that's your gut, your destiny, life, karma. And I think he's right. If you have an idea that you believe in, you have to really feel that and you have to see that vision. And then it's part of your job to get other people on board, to see the vision. As you see it, not everyone's going to approve of what you do. And we hear that a lot in social media. People put their idea out there and they're just bombarded by all of this negative stuff. But there's also people who might not be combative that are reading the same thing and feeling like, You get me. You understand my pain. Thank you so much for bringing this vision and keeping it going so that I could discover you.
[00:35:39] Nola: Yep. You never really know how far the ripple effect goes from what you're doing.
[00:35:45] Lori: So, a good example comes back to Tim Ferriss, again, he has a book out, I think the name is Tribe of Mentors, and now he's got all of these books, he's made a name for himself, he's very successful. And he says, I still had hundreds of rejections when I was trying to interview mentors. And yet he still felt very passionate. He said one of the things that he learned in trying to get the interviews with, successful industry leaders, is he said he learned a lot about failure and how failure can teach you something. So he talks about trying to reach out to somebody to get an interview and the response back, he got a no. And what the person said was that they were "on a no meeting diet." So, they were sticking to their diet for a while. And he said, he thought that was such a creative way to say no, that he used it by saying that he had a no conference call diet going on. And he said people just rolled with it. He said it was incredible. He got no pushback, no negative comments. And he said that was something that he learned that you can learn from other people's failures and how to turn that around and apply it because there's something to be said for that.
I could go on and on because there's a lot of lessons learned, but I think and I hope that listener, we together, Nola and I, have inspired you and better prepared you to handle any failures you might experience on your journey to success as well as your journey to becoming a first-time entrepreneur in the second half of your vibrant life. And be sure to stick around to the end of our podcast for a fun little surprise.
[00:37:36] Nola: If you found the information we've shared helpful and want more tools, tips, and inspiration delivered to your inbox, sign up for News You Can Use, over on our website, stickybrandlab.com and remember small steps, big effects.
[OUT-TAKE]
Nola: Okay. Retake.
[00:37:57] Lori: Jump Street.
