[00:00:00] Lori: Many people believe that if they find their true purpose in life, they will be able to live up to that famous saying, "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life." I guess the general premise is that if you have a purpose or a passion in life, your work will be meaningful and you will enjoy what you do. But what if you have difficulty pinpointing your purpose or you can't find your passion? Or maybe you can't decide on a single career path. Does that mean your life is void of meaning or that your work will leave you feeling unfulfilled? Of course not. Stay tuned friend, because in this episode, we're debating the notion that having a career passion or purpose is necessary. In fact, we wonder if life and career are better when you take a dessert buffet approach.
[00:00:50] Nola: Welcome to Sticky Brand Lab, where we bridge the gap between knowledge and action by providing you with helpful info, tips, and tools from entrepreneurs and other experts, so you can quickly and easily jumpstart your side business. We're your hosts. I'm Nola Boea. This is my co-host, Lori Vajda. Hey, Lori.
[00:01:06] Lori: Hi, Nola.
[00:01:07] Nola: You know, Lori, I can remember being a kid and having grownups ask me, what do you want to be when you grow up? And initially, of course, it was a very easy answer because the world was my oyster, right? But by the time I was in junior high, I really had no idea what I wanted to do as a career. I just felt like it was not fair to have to even think about it. I just felt way too young to even know what was possible. And that pressure to have to make a major in college was Unreasonable. And I have to say that when my daughter, she was in eighth grade, by the time she had to figure out what she wanted to do so that when she got into this high school, that they could put her on a course. I just thought that was so unrealistic. What was your experience?
[00:01:51] Lori: I also had a similar experience. I grew up in a, I'd like to think a middle-class family, at least everybody in my neighborhood was the same, but there weren't people in my neighborhood that had college degrees. So college or thinking of a career was, I was the first one in my immediate family to do that. So the idea of knowing, I didn't have any idea. And then when I worked with the Division of Youth Corrections, one of the key answers that kids had to give in order to get parole, so to speak, is that they had to define what they were going to do for work or for education. And granted, the majority of our kids were high school age, the challenge there was that we were telling 13, 14, 15, 16-year-olds, you have to decide your career. And they had no idea. They had been in a committed area. So of course, they had no idea.
And I think there's a common and pretty much accepted belief that we need our passion or purpose and that if we don't, we'll somehow live this unfulfilled life. And I think that kind of rationale is based on the idea that having a purpose gives you your why. Why do you want to do this career or why is this important to your life journey? And I think the assumption here is that it would drive you to help you stay focused, to help you stay organized, especially when things get rough. So you've got one job, or one career path, you know your passion, you know your purpose, and everything else will work out.
The idea here, though, really with your passion, is that it's supposed to come from within. And that it motivates you and gives you kind of these aspirational goals. And if you have a passion, you genuinely will love what you're doing. And if you don't, then you will feel less than.
And I actually can relate to this because it conjures up this idea when I was working at a mental health facility, there was a woman who was definitely passionate about working with young children. She had written books about it, she gave talks about it, and I admired her. And when I felt restless, and I don't think I want to work with this age group anymore, I want to work with older kids. I also felt less than because I didn't have a passion I was following. What about you, Nola?
[00:04:31] Nola: I guess I do kind of agree with you in some respects. When you see people like that, you know they're passionate. And I think people can be passionate about certain things or types of things, but it's not like they have to find a passion. And I don't even think people have to necessarily go searching for it. People fall into it and people will naturally gravitate toward things that they enjoy that they get in the flow with.
And I also think that everybody has a purpose. And that purpose may not have anything to do with their career, and they may not even have to go looking for it. And it may not even be something that you can define to some grand cause. I've met people who have a career that may be nondescript, may be very functional, but I feel that their life purpose is the way they are there for people, the way people are able to just naturally spill their heart and have a shoulder to cry on, they're good listeners or other people who light up a room and they just bring joy to wherever they are. And it may not be something they're paid to do, but it may be the reason that they're here on the planet at this place at this time. So I do think that when you are passionate about something and you are able to put that into our career, that's great. It doesn't always happen that way.
I will say that there was a study that said that graduates that felt that they had a lot of high purpose in their work we're 10 times more likely to say that they had , an overall wellbeing. But I also have found that when you're first starting out, not everybody will step immediately into a career. They might have a general idea. They might think they know their career, but we both have had stories that we started here, and then for different reasons, we shifted there. And then we found out we like this and we shifted there. And next thing we're somewhere else. That happens, that's part of life's journey. I will say that though, when you do find a job, whether it's a career path or it's a paycheck, it does need to at least line with your values. Otherwise, you will be super miserable.
[00:06:45] Lori: So one of the reasons I thought this topic was so important to do is because I do think that there's a fair number of the population that thinks just like you do. And there are tons of articles out there on research, finding your passion, or having a purpose and feeling that you know what that is and how that leads to overall wellbeing. I think if you ask my grandmother, who's passed away, but she was born in the early 1900s, if you had asked her what her purpose is, for her, I think it was family. It was raising kids. It was being a good citizen. But today, with so much out there, it almost feels like you have to have a purpose that's higher, meaning fame or fortune, and social media adds to that. So now you have influencers, something you would have never had before. And the idea being that your purpose would be something greater than yourself. And I get that. How many people today would say, like my grandmother, your purpose is to raise your family. It's to be a good citizen. We wouldn't say that.
And I think when you don't feel you know your passion or you don't feel your purpose, you somehow feel less than. And what I want to say to people is, You don't have to. You can look at that dessert buffet that I spoke about and you can say, all right, right in this moment, right at this stage in my life or this season in my life, what is driving me? What feels right?
And I think if you come at it from that standpoint, then the whole idea is that Your passion and your purpose will change, and it may change throughout your lifetime. And I want to be able to say, that's okay.
[00:08:40] Nola: I hope that what you said is not true in that people feel that their purpose is to find fame or find accolades for their success because success can be defined in many ways, right? But that external, I want to be recognized. I want everybody to see I'm successful. I want my creativity to be recognized, may earn me a lot of money. Somehow, I think that, for most people, misses the mark.
And you're absolutely right. Some people may say, well, my cause is to, you know, I want to end poverty. I want to save the whales and I'm committed to the environment. Those are very worthwhile purposes or causes. I should say for very few, will it be an absolute life purpose. And not everybody's life purpose has to do with their career, necessarily. And I think you are correct in that it can change from different phases of your life.
Now, I did come across another statistic. I'm not sure how to feel about it because McKinsey did a study that said 70 percent of people say that they define their purpose through work. It's so easy for us to do because we spend all of our waking hours through work. And the study showed that actually millennials are even more so they're likely to see their work as their life calling. So very well may be that some people, especially maybe that generation, is seeking work that is associated with the cause. And I know that there are a lot of companies that Are trying to align themselves with causes. And then you'll see a rise in social entrepreneurship and social enterprises because they want their companies to really address certain world issues. And that's great. And if you can do that and love what you do, all the better. If you do that, because you think you have to, because that's supposed to be a life purpose, and you find that you really suck at the particular role that you're playing in that. Then maybe there's some adjustments to be made and maybe it's the stage of your life that is going to be your purpose and at some point, that's going to lead to something else.
[00:10:51] Lori: Well, I am going to borrow my thought on this from the difference between finding your one true soulmate or your Mr. or Ms. Right and finding Mr. Right Now. I think that what happens in life is that when you start off in young adulthood, you are looking for something meaningful to do because it does take up a lot of time in your life. But if your circumstances, even at that time in your career, are different. And you have other obligations or you have other desires, your job may not be the thing that excites you. It may be the thing that you're pursuing, like your art or your music, your invention for that matter. So I think that the important thing here is to understand that your purpose can evolve. And your passions can change and they can change on the different stage or time in your life. They can change after a particular event. And when it changes, the questions that you should be asking yourself at that point isn't Am I just lost or am I unmoored?
But before I get to those questions or we get on to that, I really want to talk about one other idea. And that is, depending on the stage that you're in, you could ask yourself a simple question like: Right at this moment, what's important to me? So let's say, for example, that you had a strong desire to contribute to the greater good. I've often heard people who have been in for-profit work want to move into nonprofit work, but you don't necessarily have to make that kind of change in order to do something for the greater good.
For example, you might pursue a career change or a career direction or a side business, for example, in health and wellness or mental health. And maybe you are doing some part time work for a nonprofit, or maybe you want to start a side business doing e commerce so that you could sell items that have been created by underserved or underrepresented communities and individuals.
I'll give you another example. Maybe you have a lot of energy and you love making people feel emotions like laughing or crying or frustration. And so you seek work in the entertainment industry.
And although that may be a great outlet or you might be really talented, you might say, you know what? That's not the idea that I want to pursue.
So what else is available to me? Well, it might be that you get on a path for creative writing, or graphic design, or art, or print on demand. So maybe you combine things and you're doing posters or cards.
When you're thinking about the stage of life that you're in. You might look at your family needs, or the fact that you want to travel, or health, or there might be some other reason that you need more flexibility in your life.
So you now choose work that excites you, but allows you to build skills, or maybe even challenges you in new ways, and so you're looking to piece together A variety of maybe part time or side businesses rather than a traditional primary job because it opens up other opportunities for you because your main motivation or what you're feeling called to right at that moment needs flexibility.
And I think the rationale that I have is when you think about. The fact that a passion or even your purpose can change over time, then you see it from the perspective of a dynamic journey rather than a static destination. And this was particularly important to me because I went on to grad school and at graduation realized that the thing I had spent years To get to the thing that I had invested dollars in order to achieve was now not the thing that I thought it was going to be. And I didn't know if I wanted to do it for my career for a lifetime. And as it turned out. I haven't, but that's a whole ‘nother story. So what do you think about my ideas there?
[00:15:26] Nola: I liked that the examples you pulled out were not the obvious choices if somebody says, I need to pursue my purpose and my passion and get paid for it.
Now, I've already said you don't necessarily have to get paid for it. But if we're looking at wanting to align a career or a business with that, I like that you said, for example, somebody may have some creative flair or they may have some humor and can turn that into print on demand. Now, somebody might not necessarily think, Hey, print on demand, I'm going to make t shirts is going to be saving the world. But you know what? There may be certain things that you have to share. I like that you put a twist on that. I also like that you said that the purpose for that phase of life may not be the career itself but needing that business to help you shape a lifestyle that will allow you to be with your family or do something you really are passionate about and maybe do not get paid for.
I was reminded that when I made a shift in career, I decided to pursue writing because I was good at it. And I actually enjoyed writing for causes. So I decided to go into nonprofit writing. And it's something that I didn't initially pursue, even though when I was younger, that was one of the first things that popped in my head. But I did not think I could get paid for it. It was like a writer is like a starving artist. They're always starving. So why even go down that road? Or the only paid at the time when high school, I thought the only paid writers were journalists. And I was too shy to just go up and ask really bold-faced questions.
However, I will say that after many years of cause-related marketing and writing, turning that passion by getting paid for it after many years, it was not fun anymore. So it was no longer a passion. That's my example for saying sometimes that shifts and I don't think that's a bad thing. My purpose, I ended up doing something else that I felt still had meaning.
[00:17:35] Lori: I can relate to what you're saying because I had worked for 10 plus years post grad and years building up to that in the nonprofit. I was in community mental health and wellness. When I changed career directions and went into for profit or worked for major companies, one of the things that I could not bring myself to do, I couldn't even do volunteer work in nonprofit, because I had been so burnt out and so frustrated by the systems that for me, giving back was helping other people succeed who wanted to succeed. For me was in business. My journey has been evolving. And I think for people who feel like I do and you come up against societal norms that say you need to have a passion or even research, you need to have a purpose. You feel like you're the odd person out. And the whole reason that we wanted to do this wasn't just to put this out there and say, no, maybe not. Maybe you don't have a single passion or a single purpose. Maybe it changes with life, but also to help people figure out what it is in the moment that they're questioning it.
[00:18:54] Nola: Well, that's a good point. And so we have some considerations for you, listener. So when you reach an obstacle and you're wondering, what am I meant to do next? How does that align with a passion or a purpose or my values? We just have a few things for you to consider and some questions to ask yourself.
[00:19:16] Lori: Here listener, take a moment and consider this. What jelly bean? is your least favorite. Now you may be wondering what does that have to do with finding your purpose or your passion? And I'm going to tell you, if you're not familiar with Jelly Belly, are you familiar with Jelly Belly, Nola?
[00:19:33] Nola: I am not.
[00:19:34] Lori: These little jelly beans and they have a variety of different flavors. Matter of fact, that's one of the things that they're known for. They have amazing, delicious flavors, but they also have this game that has horrific tasting jelly beans like vomit or rotten egg. And so you pour your foul tasting in with the good tasting and in the game when it's your time to take the bean, you don't know if you're getting your favorite or you're getting an awful tasting and you can't tell by looking at it.
And the point here is, when you ask yourself what jelly bean is your least favorite, it helps you think about the fact that no job, no business, no even life plan is perfect all the time. There are going to be moments when you have to eat the foul-tasting jelly bean. And here's the thing. What determines our ability to stick with something we care about is having the ability to tolerate and push through those rough patches that are inevitable and like the foul-tasting jelly bean, short lived.
So when you can think about it from that perspective, here's a couple of questions to ask yourself. What obstacles are you willing to put up with in order to achieve your life, business, or career goals? Are you willing to go to a company that's values are not perfectly aligned with yours? Are you willing to start a business that's going to be rough in the beginning? Ask yourself the obstacles that you're willing to tolerate.
The second question is, what skills do you possess that set you apart from others? When you tie the obstacle with your skill set, you might find that yours is tolerance. Yours is motivation. Yours is aspirational. There are natural talents or skill sets that you have. And when you align them with the obstacles that you might face, that's the thing that will keep you moving forward.
[00:21:42] Nola: You're able to say, well, you know what, I have these skills and I can pursue it. And I know that these are going to be obstacles. And now that I've actually named those obstacles, I think I can push through and my desire is worth it. Okay. That makes sense.
Here is something else to consider. What impossible dream did your five-year-old self have and would make her cry if she met you today? Even thinking about that makes me sad. As far as a five-year-old's concerned, there's no reason they couldn't be exactly what they are dreaming to be.
[00:22:15] Lori: And what was that five-year-old self Nola wanted to be?
[00:22:19] Nola: You're going to make me go there, aren't you? I wanted to be a ballerina. I knew I wanted to be a ballerina.
[00:22:26] Lori: And I bet you would have been phenomenal because you're tall and lanky.
[00:22:30] Nola: I mastered the twirl jumping off of the couch and I had a little tutu and I had a little sparkly star wand. And, at the preschool building in the other wing, there really was a ballerina dance troupe.
[00:22:48] Lori: Oh really?
[00:22:49] Nola: Whenever I could, I would sneak out of the preschool and go down the hallway and I'd sit on this, it's almost like a gym. And I would just sit there in the middle and all of these ballerinas were getting in and out of their little slippers and putting on their tutus and bunning up their hair. And they were oblivious about this little three-year-old kid sitting there watching them. And some of them would go, Oh, Oh, hi. And I'd just sit there and I was just mesmerized. And I knew one day I would be just like them because I was already practicing in my living room. And then the teacher would come back and get me and give me a swat on the butt and make me go back to, yeah, this was the sixties.
[00:23:31] Lori: Yeah.
[00:23:31] Nola: They did that.
[00:23:31] Lori: That's a sad story.
[00:23:33] Nola: Yeah. But I love dancing. Okay. So as I was saying, five-year-olds did not see the obstacles, what to be and how to be there. They saw the possibilities based on what they love to do, how they love to play, and what they are curious about. But somewhere along the line, they get their butt swapped and then they grow up. And we adults have a way of just taking the fun out of playing and dreaming big dreams. Or, turning those dreams into goals that require hard work and just takes the fun out of it.
So if you met your five year old self today, Would she say, Hey, why don't you do ballerina dancing off your living room couch anymore? Or why don't you even dance anymore? I'm not going to say what I would reply, but you listener could consider how would you reply? How would your answer make your five-year-old self respond? Would she be sad? Would she be disappointed? Because somewhere along the way you stopped believing in yourself. I mean, that's a tough question. A very tough question.
So with that said, here are a couple of questions to ask yourself. What childhood passion did you leave behind in adulthood? And what activities did you used to do, or do now, just for the fun of it?
[00:25:02] Lori: Okay, listener, think about this for a moment.
What makes you forget to eat or delays you going to the bathroom? And I will tell you both of those. are things that I experience. So what's something that you get so wrapped up in that minutes turn into hours and hours turn into, Oh my gosh, I forgot to have lunch?
I actually did this the other day. I was eating a little snack bar at four o'clock because I completely forgot about it. But the story that I want to tell you is, there was one Christmas, my husband and I, our gift for each other was Guitar Hero. And we would play, we would get into it. I wanted to get all the stars. I was motivated so much so that I actually had to see a physical therapist because I ran into troubles with my hands. Because we would finish work, we would finish eating and we would come home and we would try to get all those points. And although I loved playing the game and getting the levels, I can't say that that was my passion or that I was into gaming. What I figured out was, I wanted to improve my skills. For me, I was in competition with myself or with those stars that were lining up.
And that may be the same thing for you listener, but it could be something totally different. Maybe you're into organization like Marie Kondo where everything has a place and if it doesn't bring you joy, you're like, get rid of it. I don't need that here. Or maybe you love teaching people. Or maybe you love solving problems. Whatever it is, don't just look at the activity that keeps you up at night, but look at the cognitive principles behind those activities that captivate you, that get you so engrossed, those hours turn into missed meals.
Now, here's a couple questions to ask yourself. What are the things you do and lose yourself in, in the enjoyment of just doing it? This is going to sound so geeky, but when I want to learn about something, I do a deep dive into research. I am on Google. I am looking up information. I am watching videos. I know what that feels like and I lose myself in it.
The second question you want to ask yourself is what are some activities that you're interested in but you haven't checked out to see if you might also enjoy them? For example, maybe you're interested in the creative process and art is your thing, but you don't pursue it because you consider yourself not to be a good artist. But if you did... And if you found some technique that worked for you or you found a technology or a platform that you enjoyed, would you lose yourself in it?
So Nola, would you lose yourself in it? Cause you tell me about your stuff all the time that you lose yourself in. So I'm thinking this sounds very familiar to you.
[00:28:10] Nola: Well, you know, that's interesting and I think it may actually, I hadn't thought about this before, but it may actually apply to the next consideration.
But you know, when I think about something that I have often lost myself in, it was when I developed websites. Whether it was for a client or for myself, I would lose myself in the design.
[00:28:29] Lori: I think that is so cool. I mean, I know you love the work that you're doing currently, but there might come a time in your future later in life in which you're looking for something more flexible or something on the side and you pursue what sounds to be like your natural talent.
[00:28:47] Nola: Well, you would think so, however, actually ties into the next consideration, which is, what is something you're willing to do poorly? And I say that because even though I do produce professional looking websites, I personally know I am not a professional graphic designer. I mean, there are people who get degrees and user experience and things like that. Mine is more innate. And the result looks great. Professional. But I would always feel that I'm not as good as somebody who went to design school or web development school. So would I go pursue that as a living? I'm not sure because before you're really good at something and that thing is very important to you, you have to first be willing to be terrible at it and be willing to not be just as good as maybe somebody who's already advanced in that skill set or in that career.
So, in other words, what is something you're willing to do poorly? And are you willing to do it poorly until you get better? Because most people will tell you that they're lifelong learners or that they love to learn new things and they will learn it, but then they won't practice it because they're afraid to look bad. , But you have to practice it. You have to get over that and through that phase, because if you want to do something you've never done before, you have to be willing to suck at it for a little while. In order to get better. You're going to need to step out of your comfort zone and just do that thing that scares you. And if the thing that scares you especially is being embarrassed. And our advice here is to be willing to tolerate that embarrassment. Or that imposter syndrome, because frankly, you're the one that feels more embarrassed than anybody else who might be judging your work. I feel people judge themselves more harshly than most, you know, everybody else out there. That's my experience anyway.
[00:30:41] Lori: No, I would agree with you.
[00:30:42] Nola: Yeah. And feeling foolish, that's just part of the journey. That's something everybody goes through. And if your dream is that meaningful to you, , then you're going to go through it. And actually, the scarier that prospect seems, the more you really need to put yourself through it. And you know, once you do it, you'll feel so much better about yourself. Yep.
Here are questions to ask yourself. What idea, innovation, path or career choice, what scares the crap out of you and scares you for a good reason?
The other question is, what have you been putting off doing, or have you been making excuses about not doing, that you probably should start doing now?
[00:31:29] Lori: Your consideration and your questions really made me think of when we started the podcast. One of the big things is organizing it and then you have to record it, so you have to listen to your voice and your script. We sucked at a lot of it to begin with. And we're what, three years in and now we're helping other people learn how to be guests on podcasts. So we're teaching how to use audio to its max and how to be good at it. So I think it takes a little bit of courage, but your questions help prompt that.
And this is our final consideration. How do you want to be remembered? Most of us don't like thinking about our death, let alone how we want to be remembered. It freaks us out. But thinking about our own death surprisingly has a lot of practical advantages. And one of those advantages is that it forces you to zero in on what's important to you.
When I was in college, I took a class called Death and Dying.
[00:32:32] Nola: Interesting.
[00:32:33] Lori: It might also, for some people listening, might sound morbid, but I have to tell you it was an amazing class. It was in my psychology program, and I had heard from other students how amazing this one instructor was, and I signed up for it. And the class really teaches you a lot of different things. But one of the exercises that we had to do was we had to write our own obituary. And of course, that exercise really gives you pause because at that time, I think I was I was in my late 20s when I went back to school and took that class and at that time, life was in front of me. I had kids, so I wasn't thinking about dying. It was a hard assignment to do, but it opened my brain up to prioritizing what was important to me. Where did I want to see myself? And it really gave me the opportunity to ask myself that question throughout life. Is this really meaningful for me? Is this the direction that I want to be? Am I contributing in a way that I'm proud of? It has a whole lot of meaning to me.
But for you listener, you don't have to take that class and you don't have to do the assignment of writing your obituary, but you can ask yourself these two questions. What is important to you? And, what values should guide your actions?
[00:33:57] Nola: That's very interesting that you had said that one of your assignments was to write your own obituary. I had an assignment once where we had to write an essay based on, we have six months to live. What are we going to do, six months, one month. What are we going to do one week? What are we going to do one day? And I noticed that when I went through that exercise, my answers went from, I've got to experience this. And the closer I got to that zero date was, I'm going to relish my relationships, I'm going to pet my cat, I'm going to call my sister. And it was really about the relationships. So I think both of those exercises, like you said, really make you think about what is it that is really valuable to you. It's a good exercise.
[00:34:52] Lori: When you think about it from that standpoint, it helps you think about a passion or a purpose And I think it gives you the freedom and flexibility to say, this is going to evolve as I evolve. And if I revisit these questions that we've shared or others, listener, that you might explore, you will realize that a life well lived or a life worth living is one in which you're doing the things that bring the most happiness to you. And perhaps even those around you. At least that's my view.
[00:35:34] Nola: Cool. Well, friend, we hope this discussion and the tips and questions we've shared here today help you find your at-this-time, passion or purpose and inspire you on your journey to become a first-time entrepreneur in the second half of your vibrant life. Be sure to stick around to the very end of the podcast for a little fun.
[00:35:54] Lori: If you found the information we've shared helpful and want more tips, tools, and inspiration delivered to your inbox, sign up for News You Can Use over on our website. That's stickybrandlab.com. And remember, small steps, big effects.
[00:36:13] Nola: Welcome to Sticky Brand Lab, where we bridge the gap between not, not blah, blah, insert.
[00:36:22] Lori: Yeah, that's what we do. The blah, blah, blah, blah. .
[00:36:25] Nola: Oh my goodness. Okay.
