Accountability, Healing and Eliminating Domestic Violence with Tamu Lane

Domestic violence is an epidemic which impacts people of all races, ages, genders and classes. Our society too often puts the onus on the victim to fix their situation by leaving their batterer. However, the reality is that this will not solve the problem of domestic violence; the perpetrators are the ones who need to be held accountable for their actions, otherwise they will abuse whomever they are in a relationship with. In today’s episode we are joined by Ms. Tamu Lane, a survivor who now runs one of the few New Jersey based programs which aims to eliminate domestic violence by working with the batterers themselves. Tamu and Rose discuss the compounding struggles experienced by women of color and how the common practice of victim blaming perpetuates abuse. You will also learn about the lack of coherent policies around domestic violence and the devastating impact this has on victims, why the COVID-19 pandemic has heightened the levels of domestic violence and the fact that domestic violence is still not being treated as the nationwide emergency that it is. If you are a victim of domestic violence, even though you may feel alone, you are not, and there are many organizations out there to help you.

Transcript

[INTRO]

[00:00:04] RW: Welcome to this episode of We Hear You, from Harambe Social Services in South Jersey. We Hear You is designed to give a voice to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. This forum is for survivors and their allies to discuss issues that impact them and their families, as well as to educate communities.

In the coming segments, we will hear from survivors. They will tell us their stories and what they would like for us to know. As allies, we want to hear how we can support them.

[EPISODE]

[00:00:47] RW: Welcome, welcome, welcome. We have with us tonight, Ms. Tamu Lane. How are you?

[00:00:54] TL: I’m good. Glad to be back again. Awesome.

[00:00:58] RW: Yeah, we are glad to have you back. I mean, some people just bring so much, and you cover so many areas of expertise. It's great. It's great talking with you all the time. I must say, I thoroughly enjoyed the yoga. This is also – she is a yogi.

[00:01:22] TL: Yes.

[00:01:24] RW: And just another hat that you wear and how is that going? Do you have a good following there?

[00:01:33] TL: I do. I just got done two classes while I have a baseball cap on. Yeah, I had a six o'clock class 7:30 class, and I do. Yeah, a lot of people are loving it. Because I have different, from chair yoga to yin, vinyasa. So, different people like different things and I have a following and trying to get it to grow even more. It's great. It's really good.

[00:01:59] RW: That is exciting. I know, I thoroughly did enjoy, but I have, as you just gently encouraging me –

[00:02:09] TL: [inaudible 00:02:08].

[00:02:10] RW: Change my ways. I really know the importance, though, of just getting healthy. So much of it is, you know, one step at a time. But six o'clock and 7:30, those are the two times you do in the evening, right? Chair, what time is the chair?

[00:02:30] TL: Chair is actually on Tuesdays and Thursdays, six o'clock.

[00:02:34] RW: Okay.

[00:02:35] TL: And my mom joins us so she would love to see your face.

[00:02:40] RW: I enjoyed her. Your mom, what's that one of your [inaudible 0:02:45] with her? I could see them. But I did enjoy it. I did enjoy it. So, let's see. We're trying to get back to some healthier habits.

[00:03:01] TL: I tell you, since all this happened with COVID-19, doing things online, it allows you to reach. I have people checking in from California being online with me. So, it allows it to expand even further than just coming to a studio, which is how I started. But with COVID-19, we're online, and I'm going to stay that way for quite a while, because it works.

[00:03:23] RW: Absolutely, so true. And that's the thing of having, even as we're doing We Hear You, we are actively putting together the campaign to advertise this better so that we can get a wider audience where people are beginning to listen. So, we're hoping to just reach more and more audiences. So, just wanted to, kind of, tonight, to allow you to really share with us what you'd like folks to know. I think there's so many areas that we can touch on. But as we are moving into well, real time, we're moving into October, which is Domestic Violence Awareness Month, in terms of making people more aware that this is something that continues to go on, even in 2020. What is it that you'd like to share with people in terms of eliminating domestic violence?

[00:04:31] TL: You said the word eliminating. I think one of the first steps, we have to get real honest with ourselves about this issue, and who's the cause of this issue. And not, we’re still stuck in this world of blaming the victim. We're still stuck with that and we're still not really understanding who's at fault about this, and holding them accountable and holding that perpetrator accountable, whether man or woman, because we know that it's getting more and more on both sides, but truly holding them accountable. And then our systems, holding them accountable and not giving them slaps on the wrist for the abuse that is caused upon that survivor.

So, our systems need to come up, and also be accountable in recognizing that this individual is at fault for this. And then how do we truly put programs and money in place to really help this process? When I talk about it, I think about it, when you look at the money that's put out there in regards to services, even though it's not enough, but when you look at services, a lot of the money is put out there to “fix the survivor”. Because it won't happen if she just or if he just didn't do or if they just leave.

So, the money is really put out for them sort of like to fix the situation. There's not a whole lot of money in batterers and in resources. And I say I believe that's because we look for the victims, we look for the survivor to fix it. We have to change that mentality and not look for the survivor to fix it because she or he can't fix something they didn't cause. So, I think we can’t get to a place of eliminating until we shift and realize where the problem is, who really needs to be held accountable, and then get our systems up to par with that as well, and holding them accountable, so that we can begin to hopefully slowly see some things change, and stop making the survivor the one who needs to fix the problem. Because she can leave all she – we can have survivors continuously leave, is that fixing the issue?

[00:07:05] RW: It doesn’t.

[00:07:07] TL: Yeah, you still have a perpetrator that's still abusing.

[00:07:10] RW: And very often that perpetrator will go from one relationship to the other, having the same behavior over and over and over.

[00:07:20] TL: Over and over.

[00:07:22] RW: Of these relationships and never really get fixed, or never be held accountable in a real punishment. Very often, especially if the woman just leaves, and society tells a woman and I'm going to be using woman as a disclaimer, almost each program, we do mention that it's important to know that both men and women are victims of domestic violence. However, the overwhelming majority of victims are women. So, we do tend to slant our conversation in that direction but we do want to acknowledge that.

But there's so much stigma and stereotyping about this type of victimization, is that women are blamed when they are victims and they are told, “Well, if they would just leave, the problem would stop.” Well, it would stop with that individual at that time for them. But it doesn't stop that individual. Just what you just said, it doesn't stop that individual from doing the same thing to someone else. And I think that whole issue around accountability, we have seen, even with our systems, as you mentioned, have data, they want data collection, that sask about the outcomes. Has the victim now moved on? Has she gotten herself together? Has she now stopped putting herself in an unsafe environment and unsafe situation? As if she has control over that. And you have intelligent people developing outcome measures that speak to those kinds of things. It's totally rational.

[00:09:25] TL: It's all about her. What did she do? Nothing is about the batterer and we're in 2020 and we’re still with the same mindset that she needs to fix it, that if she just left, it would stop. Meaning, they’re saying that she caused it. “She must have done something to him to make him be that way,right? “If she just left, he wouldn't be that way.” Which we know is false. Like we said, he just finds the next person to spew his abuse on. That’s all.

[00:10:04] RW: And again, the way the funding, it’s another good point, the way the funding is set up, the VAWA funding, Violence Against Women Act, those funds are geared towards victims, rightfully so. But where's the pot of money to address the men and women who are doing harm? How do we help them to address the issue and address their behavior and hold them accountable? Where are the funds for that? And most batterers intervention programs have to raise their own funds to do that work, and that work is so key, even having the NFL, the NBA, and some of these large organizations contributing in some kind of significant way to help address this, because it's a major problem, it's no different than a substance abuse, or some other ill, that affects a large amount of people and prevents them from actively living a healthy life.

If you are a person that does harm, you're going to do that until you don't do it. And if you're never getting any correction, first of all, and then with the correction being held accountable, because you can't just get corrected. Getting corrected only basically is saying, “If I get caught, I'll get corrected.” And most don't get caught because the victim just wants to get the heck out of there. “If I can just get out, I'll leave you alone. I won't say anything. I just want to get out of this.” But then that leads them to do it again and again and again and again.

So, I like that you talk about having an honest conversation, because so much of it is about having this be a discussion that's in the forefront, it needs to be a major dialogue about paradigm shift, and shifting the onus from the victim to the perpetrator. That just is not happening even in 2020.

[00:12:31] TL: And, you know, I'm thinking about, with COVID-19, we know those numbers have skyrocketed. I hear nothing about it. I saw little blips and bobs, little pieces across the board, but no one wanted to talk it about because we don't see, we still see women as, sorry to say, as objects. So, we still don't see, you know, the systems, they still don't see us as important. So, I don't feel like it was important for folks to talk about in the media around COVID-19 and women that are stuck at home now with the perpetrator and watching abuse to shoot just sky high. Because now, “he's stressed out even more”, as they would say in quotes. And child abuse, I'm sure, because the kids are home and they had no kind of reprieve. They're just all stuck in his house and we know those numbers went sky high. Folks, once again, we didn't want to talk about that.

[00:13:30] RW: Yeah, very little being said. I think I did actually see Tamron Hall. She did actually have a show and a young woman came on to discuss what happened to her mother. Her mother actually was murdered, very sadly, but she was saying that that was why she wanted to come on because again, so much is hidden. Because it was early on, she might have had it on like say March or April, but if there was a recent incident, but there was very little discussion around the numbers, and then occasionally people would say something but then it was just kind of glossed over and just not in any significant conversation. 

I don't have the numbers yet. I still don't know what those numbers are, but we know in terms of, like you’re saying, just the dynamic of how it occurs, it had to, the numbers had to increase.

[00:14:36] TL: Yeah, I think I saw two small articles that talked about, you know, some of the numbers increasing. But I feel like just like everything else that we know is happening is a national emergency, I need for folks to see DV as an emergency and we still haven't gotten there yet.

[00:14:59] RW: No. We’re not there. It's still case by case. Some celebrity will be involved, either as a victim or perpetrator, and then that'll draw attention for a time. We will sort of kick around a little dust and have a people parade on a few talk shows, and then it'll be over again.

[00:15:22] TL: Right back down.

[00:15:24] RW: Back to business as usual, but not anything that happens in a real significant way. So, when I use that word “eliminate” I always use it with caution. Because I'm thinking, well, can we truly eliminate or eradicate DV in our lifetime? Is that something that can really happen? Is it doable? But we hear that word all the time.

[00:15:53] TL: It reminds me of like people would always ask me, because I did a lot of batterers work, people would ask me, “Well Tamu, do you really believe in your heart of hearts that they can actually change?” I would always say, “I have to believe it.” I say, “because I can't do it if I don't believe that they can or that they will.” I say, “Now, I’m telling you that everyone that came into that came into that six month group, that some of them just came there to work it and work the system as best as they could so they can get the certificate and tell the judge that they got it.” I said, “Of course, of course they existed.” I said, “But I've come across quite a few, where I saw quite a few aha moments, I saw quite a few light bulbs and when you start talking about their kids, [and] I saw some grown men shed some serious crocodile tears and talk about their struggles.” So, I say, “Do I believe they can change?” I said, “I do.” But I say, we have to continue to -- when we talk about New Jersey, it's what, I think six programs that are funded, I think it's six?

[00:17:01] RW: Only six? Wow.

[00:17:02] TL: It’s not a lot and it's definitely not at 10. And one of them is in Atlanta County, because that's the one I wrote the grant for and the program piece. Again, there was another one in [0:17:18] that got closed. So, that's why I'm thinking it might be six. They got their funding, people’s funding got taken away. So, for whatever reason, but yeah, for something that we say is so important, I feel like every county should be getting us, me, to have these batter groups. I mean, to me that tells me what you truly believe is important. So, when you only give a few dollars, that's like, you're putting a band aid on it and say, “We’re throwing some dollars, maybe they’ll be quiet.”

[00:17:53] RW: And one of the pieces to that is that, again, in terms of how we think, we still think folks can take a few weeks of an anger management class.

[00:18:05] TL: Oh, geez. I get so mad when I hear that those groups still exist. I'm like, how can we still let that happen?

[00:18:19] RW: That’s the thing. It’s very difficult to hear things. Recently, I understand that the New Jersey Coalition to End Domestic Violence, their women of color task force group recently did a survey. It's my understanding that they surveyed advocates around issues that need to be addressed. One of the issues that they talked about was that we still have programs that are reporting victims to the CP&P, having children removed. 

We went through a whole protocol for years and years and years and developed that over so much time, and that's supposed to be a universal, it's a statewide mandate, but it is not a mandate. And people are doing what they please in each municipality.

So, it's absolutely horrible. That’s something that was happening in the ‘50s and ‘60s and ‘70s ‘90s, and we're still, 2020, still going on that even sometimes when the children are not even there. That's terrible. But again, it's about the victim, being at fault, and that's why we're accountable and the biggest punishment is, “Well, you didn't care for your children.”

[00:20:02] TL: So, when we talk about eradicating and eliminating, we gotta figure out how to get rid of that thought process first.

[00:20:11] RW: Yeah, because again, it's more punishment for the victim, “We're not going to address”, as you said, “and be honest about what the real problem is, let's keep doing what we've been doing, which is blaming victim and holding the victim accountable, because somebody should be punished, well let's punish the victim. So, we'll just keep doing that.” But these arbitrary laws, and then the unequal treatment, statewide, where it depends on who's on the bench on that day, who's going to be treated in this way or that way. It's just a matter of a draw of the dice. And that's a terrible way to address such a horrific social issue. A terrible, terrible way.

But I had some great news, and I'm going to share this in a way, I’m trying to maintain confidentiality, but situations where sometimes it just looks that it's going to be intolerable. And one of these trends is where women are served TROs. Women are being treated as perpetrators. And it usually comes after years of abuse, that maybe in some cases that they kind of strike back, they finally tried to defend themselves, and then the perpetrator gets [inaudible 0:21:55] they would get a scratch on them, and then they turn the table. They understand how to work the system, and they work the system against the victim. And that’s like one of the worst injustices when you see that happen. 

But I recently had a situation where that actually happened and the good news is, the judge saw through it, and I was like – I couldn’t believe such a happy moment that they saw through it. The victim was able to advocate for themselves after just minimal coaching from us. But this individual had gotten a TRO and took the child. They were ready to just do their work, they were ready. But the judge saw through and denied his TRO and told the victim, “You go get one. You need to get one, given all of what you have just told us here, you need a TRO and give her back the baby.” 

[00:23:16] TL: I loved it.

[00:23:18] RW: It was awesome.

[00:23:20] TL: That's a start.

[00:23:21] RW: Yeah, it is a start. But when you have judges that really do understand what the victimization is, how clever these individuals can be, and when they start using the legal system, oh my god, it’s just horrible. Because many victims cannot – they don't have the resources to fight it, especially in terms of the financial resources to get legal assistance. And once they're identified as a defendant, it's a whole different game. 

It goes back to what we said about the resources to address defendants, address the perpetrator. Well when the victim becomes the perpetrator, that she falls into that basket.

[00:24:14] TL: It's just heartbreaking. But I'm glad that it starts with one and then maybe we get some more and some more.

[00:24:22] RW: Exactly. It’s just having that hope and also giving – I think that's what we do for survivors that come to us is give them hope, because in a situation where they're feeling, “Nobody knows, nobody cares.” Often their family and friends, if they do know, they've become weary. They really are on their own, very often, by the time they come to us. So, being able to give them that hope that somebody does care and this stinks, but it can get better. And being able to offer that to someone is so rewarding, so important.

[00:25:14] TL: Wow, that's wonderful.

[00:25:15] RW: Yeah, that was exciting. We’re doing a happy dance.

[00:25:20] TL: I’m sure.

[00:25:24] RW: Absolutely. This year of the DV Awareness Month, the campaign is one thing which is there, with the premise being that social change comes from doing just one thing. So, one of the things that we're hoping to do with [inaudible 00:25:54], trying to get the ball rolling, is to ask our followers to tell us the one thing that they would do and and maybe take a picture of it and put it on our Instagram. So, we'll be kind of sending that out to folks so that we can maybe start that chain of just the one thing. 

Because, like you're saying, if one person gets something positive happens, and then a second person and third, but I think we tend to think it has to be this huge thing. Eventually, it's a huge thing, but it does start with one thing. So, that's what we're trying to promote for this month, that we will ask folks to tell us their one thing, and we're going to select our one thing and do that one thing to make the change within our community.

[00:26:55] TL: Awesome.

[00:26:57] RW: And let it carry beyond October.

[00:26:59] TL: Yeah.

[00:27:01] RW: Because we know that domestic violence is 365 days, sadly.

[00:27:06] TL: But isn't that the thing? Like you said, it takes, people always say, “Well it seems so big”, but it just takes one thing and one person and then another person and another person and things begin to catch fire. So, we have to realize that.

[00:27:23] RW: Yeah, they can.

[00:27:23] TL: That's awesome. That's awesome.

[00:27:24] RW: So, that's what we're doing. So, if you get your chance to go on our Instagram, and tell us your one thing. In fact, we have a sort of a poster kind of a thing that you can put your message on, and then take a picture. We're going to be working to get those out to folks and hopefully we will start seeing those pictures go up, because I think that will be exciting.

[00:27:56] TL: Awesome, awesome.

[00:27:56] RW: So, is there one other thing that you'd like to share with us before we close for the night? Any other thing?

[00:28:07] TL: Well, I don't know. It's just so, so much. When we talk about DV and just supporting survivors, believing survivors, being connected to survivors, it’s just so important that we give that, that we have an open ear to those that we might know or might have an inkling that, you know, someone might be struggling. We really got to be connected and in tune and helping people and get rid of that judgment that a lot of people hold. 

It just still amazes me when people hear about someone that's been abused. And, you know, once again, they just come out their mouth, “She’s just stupid. Why don't she just?” It's still that same old context. And I'm like, come on, when are we going to shift and realize that there's something else going on? Like, it's not about her being stupid, it’s not about her just needing to leave, when are you going to shift your mindset and realize that there's something else happening here and there's the owning that has to happen somewhere else. So, I'm just really hoping and wishing that we as society just begin to do a lot better for people, that we begin to do a lot better for survivors, because we have so much work to do in that area.

[00:29:36] RW: I totally agree with that. Just changing and bringing ourselves from those judgmental attitudes is so important because it keeps victims silent. It keeps them silent because no one, I mean, we say one in three, one in four of us is a victim. And if I'm sitting at that Sunday morning breakfast at church, and somebody makes a comment, like, “Oh, they're so stupid. I don't know and I would never put up with this. And I would never put up with that.” And you’re a victim or your mama's a victim or your daughter's a victim –

[00:30:22] TL: You’re not going to say anything.

[00:30:23] RW: Right? You’re not going to say anything. You may not agree with them. But you're not going to say anything like, “Well, wait a minute, that isn't true, because this happened to me and this is what was going on in my situation, or this was going on in my daughter's situation.” You're not going to say a word because you already see how they feel and they've made it very clear that something is wrong with you if you're a victim. Yeah, I totally agree we do to need to change the attitudes and stop judging people.

[00:30:59] TL: Yeah, like you want me to –

[00:31:02] RW: It could be you tomorrow, it could be. I think people don't see it, they don't see it until they're in it, that it could be anybody. But then folks don't see it that way. They think they know how it happens, and, “Oh, they have low self-esteem.” 

What I do [inaudible 00:31:27] every workshop that I do related to domestic violence, in some way, I get that point across that people don't come into relationships with poor self-esteem. They're driven, they’re beaten down, and they get to that level where their esteem is just taken away from them. They were fine before they entered the relationship. And folks can’t understand, it's like being a prisoner of war. Men and women who are captured and tortured, very often it’s not physical, it's so often just a mind game and emotional thing and they are beaten down to submission and eventually succumb.

[00:32:22] TL: Gaslighting is real.

[00:32:27] RW: It’s totally real.

[00:32:27] TL: It also will make you feel like you’re going insane. You say, “Well, I didn't do that. I didn't hit you. I don't know if you saw it.” And will make you feel like to you – “Wait a minute, I know what just happened.” But no, we don't get that when we're on the outside. We feel like our spouses, first of all, would never, and, “Nor would I ever take that from him. I'm better.” That's how people speak, like they're better and when I hear folks talk like that, I say to them, I just shake my head and I say, “I really hope and pray that you don't.” That’s all I can say. I said, “I really hope and pray that you never experience what I've experienced and what others that I know experience.” I said, “I really hope that you don't.” Because I wouldn't wish that on my worst. I hope I don’t have any enemies. Who knows? I'm sure I do, but I wouldn't wish it on them. We need to –

[00:33:26] RW: We need to move away from the shaming people and blaming because, I think, it is a big part of, again, maintaining that silence. And so that's why we have a podcast. We want to get that conversation rolling, keep that conversation going. Let people know that, no, they are not alone. And no, they are not the problem. Things have been taken out of their control for now, but it won't always be like that. 

[00:34:04] TL: But something else that comes to my mind, if I can just have a quick moment. We were talking about women of color. We know that the numbers of mental illness is rising. And a lot of times that has a lot to play with being in the home where domestic violence is occurring. And we see more and more depression and bipolar too, and generalized anxiety. You know what I mean? And we don't talk about that neither, because, first of all, we, women of color, we were taught not to talk about that. There's that shame and all that around that. So, now we're in a home where it's abusive. Now we're dealing with our mental health, which is shattering and we were taught not to talk about that. Now, we’re just crumbling inside because we were taught not to talk about none of it.

Now we’re talking about the racial unrest that is happening. Then, if my mate is a black man, yes, I don't want him to abuse me, but I don't want to call the police because I don't want them to kill him. We're dealing with all of those dynamics as well, when we're talking about domestic violence, and specifically with black and brown women, all those other dynamics that are put in place, which people don't understand, that we're struggling with. We have no safe spaces to talk about it, because people are already judging the fact that you're in a home with DV, and then as you add on all those other pieces, it's just layers that we still don't have the safe space to talk about it.

[00:35:39] RW: That's the whole issue. Having that safe space where you're not going to be judged, where you're going to be allowed to say it out loud, what you're going through and not get the look. So, we just need those spaces for folks so they can feel for those few moments, sometimes it's only moments, then they actually go back in, some people are living in this and so limited resources that they can't come out or are just afraid to come out.

That's why it's so important to keep talking about it and letting people know that there are resources, there are places that they can get help. We do need to talk about it because all of those things are compounded and make it more complex in terms of women of color. I think in a particular way, black women because of the other over-layered issues that make it much more complicated to seek help and be assured that you will get help and not have the perpetrator killed in the process, and have yourself self-killed in the process by the people who are supposed to be helping, all of the above.

[00:37:04] TL: Yeah.

[00:37:06] RW: Well, Tamu, it's always a pleasure.

[00:37:10] TL: Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:37:12] RW: Well, thank you so much for coming on. And again, I know you have a long day, but I appreciate you taking some time for us and just being part of our discussion about domestic violence. So, thanks again and you get home, well you are home, but get some rest, get to your bed. All right, thank you so much for coming on tonight.

[00:37:38] TL: Thank you. Thanks for having me. Take care.

[00:37:40] RW: Good night.

[END OF EPISODE]

[00:37:42] RW: Thanks for joining We Hear You Podcast with our host, Rose Williams from Harambe Social Services, a grassroots organization in South Jersey. Harambe is Swahili for “pulling together in unity”. We use the principles of the Ingusa Saba in all of our services, to educate communities about domestic violence and sexual assault.

Our primary focus is to provide counseling services to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. If you or someone you know needs to talk to us, please call 609-225-6936. Again, that number is 609-225-6936. Our counseling services are free of charge.

Be sure to follow Harambe Social Services on Instagram and Facebook. We would love to hear your feedback about tonight's focus. Tell a family member and a friend about the show. You can help us get the word out and go to buzzsprout.com to make a review.

Thank you. Be safe. Be well.

[END]