Mike: 0:00

Yeah, I feel like, so I told Frank, I told Frank. I'm going to ask him about his deck building philosophy. Um, and then I guess we don't prank. We probably don't want you to give like a report on the UIC, but like, you can talk about like, maybe if you want to use Wintercot as an example of how you think about decks. And then obviously we want to get your opinion on whimsical going forward. Uh, and then other than that, I guess we can just kind of talk general indie stuff.

Frank: 0:33

Yeah. Yeah. We can talk about whatever you guys want to talk about. I'm I'm, I'm pretty, I'm pretty down to, to kind of just let the conversation over. It ends up gone.

Brent: 0:44

I recognize you. You've you're you've been like, uh, making the celebrity rounds.

Frank: 0:50

Yeah, I really, uh, I, uh, um, heavy on the, the, the PR after the tournament, I've been a bunch of people had like, messaged me to do like different videos in, in, you know, for you to, and podcasts and stuff like that. I said yes to every single person I'm like super, super happy to,

Brent: 1:16

I think, I think one thing that's really different now versus like pre pandemic is like over the course of pandemic. There are people who really said, yo, we're like content creators. We're going all in. And like, once you get that content creator, flywheel going, you're like we got to constantly come up with something.

Frank: 1:35

yeah. Yeah. I it's cool too, because I've done it. Like everyone. And everything that I have been on, I, um, I really felt like I got to talk about a different aspect of, of like what I was doing. Like one person, you know, wanted a full tournament report. And then other version, just ask me like personal questions about myself. And, you know, I did like a, kind of like a one-on-one with Andrew that we just talked about, like a little bit of everything. And so I felt like even though in some, like, we did a meta discussion for indie, and then we did like a post EOC recap. And I felt like, like every single one that I did, like, I was kind of doing a little something different and a little bit of overlap, but, um, it, it was nice. I felt like I wasn't like repeating the same thing for, you know, five different pieces of content, which I enjoy.

Mike: 2:24

I think, I feel really out of the loop because I, the only thing that I knew that you were on was before you, I see, I, I listened to you to you on a like tag team, but what have you done since then? I don't even

Frank: 2:35

Yeah, so I've done. Okay. Yeah. If anybody wants to watch, um, yeah. Anything that I talk about, I I've done. Um, oh gosh, I'm trying to think of it. Like literally everything. Um, I went on the mellow magic carpet. I went on the lake of rage podcast and that was really, I just gave it to terminate report. It was like round one, I did this around 200 and this and three, this happened around four. So you kinda want to hear like a tournament recap, a little more in depth. You can go listen to that. Um, I did an interview on tricky Jim, which was like, in-person because, you know, Andrew's like an hour from me. And so I actually got a league at full grip on Wednesday nights. And so, um, we have to do that one, like in person, which is like super cool. Um, I haven't done, um, a meta discussion for, um, Indi with, uh, Stelios network concerts network with Justin McCurry on. So the three of us did one. Um, after this, I'm going to do a discussion on the shuffle squad. Again, they actually asked me to come back before EIC happens. So they really, you know, invested early in that stock, which is really funny. I had committed to that before. Um, and it's, it's nice too, because like I'm doing, I've done like a couple of minute discussions and I'm sure we'll talk about Medicare, but it's like every two days, my mind completely changes, like what's going on for the tournament. So I think as we get closer, you can kind of see like that progression, which will be super nice. I don't feel like I'm going to be like repeating the same things, which is cool. And then, um, I did a. The video with nine car TCG, which, um, was actually super fun. He just asked me some personal questions about like what my nerves were like and a couple less technical things, and we just play it again and put them on like for the video. And so that was like really nice. Um, and then I think that's it. I feel like I'm missing like one piece of media, but for the most part, I, oh, I did a super run, um, as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just, um, Jeff and I. Um, Jeff Jeffrey saran. Um, so he did that one as well, like pretty early in that. And it's like, really, like, we did that, like the day that I got back from Germany. So it was like, yeah, how's it feel to be back? And it was kind of like, um, the immediate, um, uh, feelings of, you know, after the tournament. So I definitely happy to make my rounds. I like love doing stuff like this, and I love helping out people with their content and stuff. And just like anything that I can like contribute to the community and super pumped to do so.

Mike: 5:16

Sweet. Thank you for adding us to the list. A long list. Hopefully we can. It sounds like what we want to talk about will also be different enough

Frank: 5:26

No, I, I definitely think it will be in like, I'm usually pretty good about not like doing, you know, overlapping, um, points and stuff like that. So I feel like even if you've listened to. And do like one thing about URC or about indeed. Um, and you're like listening to this, like there's still going to be stuff in here that I talk about that you won't be able to hear anywhere else too.

Brent: 5:48

I feel like we can create a really helpful hour of productivity just by breaking down with Connor Fenton's list is bad. Can we do that?

Frank: 5:57

I haven't looked too much into it, but I was absolutely dumbfounded watching a Shadow Rider deck. And I thought that was amazing. I thought that was crazy.

Brent: 6:15

Welcome to the Trashalanche. That's the podcast intro we do every week. Attendance is always a hundred percent this week. It's 133. Oh, I'm also supposed to be responsive by channel fireball that he'll pay the bills. If you bought some cards from them and use the code trash, then they would say, guys, it was worth paying your bills. This month.

Mike: 6:37

I actually bought cards for the first time in a very long time. And I use channel fireball. It was cheaper. Usually I just go in trolling toad for convenience, but it was significantly cheaper. They had stuff in stock that troll and towed did not have. Um, and my issue with TCG players that often I can't like I have to buy from like 15 different vendors to get like,

Brent: 7:04

You try to buy whims that gotta be stars. And they're like, every vendor has one, right?

Mike: 7:08

yeah, Ray, exactly. To get like relatively good PR um, prices. But I found on Chandler fireball, I was able to get three vendors and I bought like 50 something cards. Um, and it was all pretty much the best price. So it was actually a really good experience.

Brent: 7:24

Wonderful as this is the kind of real marketing that, uh, that the world wants. Frank, welcome to the

Frank: 7:33

Yes, thanks for having me. I, I I'm, I'm excited to be honest. I think this is my first time, right?

Brent: 7:39

Yeah.

Frank: 7:40

Once before I know you, you, you telling me a couple of times, like when you, I get mentioned in the podcast, which I super

Brent: 7:46

Yeah. We talk about you all the time, but I don't think,

Frank: 7:49

all I'm excited to be here.

Brent: 7:52

um, uh, so how jet lagged are you? Let's dive right in with the important stuff. Have you fully.

Frank: 7:58

I actually a phenomenal job at like two and from like adjusting my sleep schedule with like no trouble, like on the way there. I, um, so I left Wednesday. Afternoon, probably like eight ish. Um, which when I, you know, it was six hours ahead. So it was

Brent: 8:23

Direct flight or a stopover.

Frank: 8:25

um, I had a tiny layover in Toronto. Um, but it was, it was, the front of airport is so huge that like, it took me so long to get to my gate that I was pretty much boarding by the time I got there. So it was, it was pretty chill. Um, so yeah, I left around like, I want to say, I think four from Cleveland. So it was about 10:00 PM there. Um, and then my flight from Toronto, I think left around eight, which is about to, um, Um, and so I slept really good on the flight to Toronto, and then I didn't sleep as much as I wanted to. I had a hard time sleeping on the plane from Toronto to Germany, which I hate, I love to try and sleep, you know, on those long plane rides. Cause I just hate sitting there and you know, it was crammed 7 47, um, you know, traveling overseas. And so I got like three, three or four hours of sleep, maybe a little bit less than that, probably around three. And um, I got there, I took like the perfectly time napping. I took like a two hour nap. Um, A little bit later in the day. So I landed around 8:00 AM. I didn't even get to the venue and settled in my hotel until around 11. And it was up for about two hours and I slept from like one to three. And then, so by the time I was sleep deprived enough that I was like, ready to go to bed at like 11 that night. But also like I could, we were like hanging out and testing and going to dinner like throughout the night without me being like super tired. So, um, my first day their sleep schedule was perfect dusted. And then Monday morning when I early on Monday morning, when I left Sunday night, I did not sleep at all. And I stayed up for like 24 hours, like 22 hours or something. Um, and then I slept the entire plane ride back, um, from Germany to, um, Germany to Toronto for the most part across after the first hour, um, she was like super nice and friendly and we were all just like crammed in there. Um, so I slept for, for a good amount of time on the plane, probably like six hours or so. And I slept on the hour from Toronto to Cleveland. Um, so I got like six hours of sleep. By the time I got home, I was like 3:00 PM. So when like 11:00 PM rolled around that night and I was like in bed, ready to go. So it was, it was super great.

Brent: 10:49

I actually think it's an underrated best practice to stay up all night before like big, big flights going with, I did the same thing. I stayed up all night. The day before I flew to Tokyo. And like we got on the plane at like 7:00 AM and I was ready to sleep and boom hit in Japan. And I had, I was on the sleep schedule and it was amazing.

Frank: 11:12

Oh, yeah. It's, it's definitely a learned skill. I think, like traveling to all these tournaments and, you know, doing like the full Pokemon tournament circuit, like it's just something and I I'm fortunate enough to be able to sleep very well on airplanes, which I know isn't something everybody can do.

Brent: 11:28

Same, same thing. That's a super power for me too.

Frank: 11:31

yeah. So, uh, yeah, timing that out appropriately and like, knowing like what time zone is like, I'm in, like, I'm thinking in Germany time, like in Ohio, like if I like, like when I was at the airport at like, you know, um, you know, like 3:00 PM on like, oh, it's 10 right now. Like, okay. I need to go to bed soon. Um,

Brent: 11:51

You would already emotionally shifted.

Frank: 11:54

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Mike: 11:55

So you go there, but like you played this weird deck. What, what do you thinking? How did you, so I I'm curious, like specifically on the example of whimsical, like how did you arrive at that deck, but maybe you can talk about that and then eventually talk more generally, because you've been known to create and think about lots of different, interesting decks. And I want to hear about that process.

Frank: 12:18

So anytime you're going to deck buddy, and I think this is a big misconception, like I'll do well with this like rogue deck or, you know, something crazy. And then people will message me. They're like, oh, can you help me with my Butterfree deck? Or like, and it doesn't really work. I can't just pick a car that I liked and then make a deck around it or just, you know, um, or pick a card that even a card like that I think is good. And then just like, turn it into a doc. It's a little more nuanced than that. And I think it's like a, really a skill. You have to be really fine tune like with the meta and like what people are going to be playing and how not only cards work like in a vacuum, but just like conceptually as well throughout the game. And so, um, in the case of whims of Cod, this format, um, really wanted to focus on, um, Punishing special energy. Like when I go into a tournament, if I want to play a deck that's not very well established or, you know, a deck that's really kind of, um, hasn't been thought of yet. Um, I really pick an aspect of the entire format that is exploitable. So you have a good matchup through a lot of decks. And for this format, the brilliant stars format, um, a special energies, like the very obvious outlier. So the first deck that I've played in this format and the first deck that I wrote deck that I had really built, um, was the, um, RCS Beedrill flag on deck that, um, I had built for the full grip games, one K, uh, which was like the first brilliant stars, a big tournament and Michael Slootsky. And I played that, um, I think both went like six one and Ms. Cut or something like that. Um, but it was the one who had like the three to RCS and the chromatics in it and the flag gun, and, um, that had gotten really popular. And then, um, Charlie, um, current Charlie lock you're kind of puts that deck and added the Sandaconda to it, um, and played it in salt lake city. And, um, one of them got ninth with it, and that was the kinda the first iteration I knew Deidre was very good. And I knew like RCS could, um, you know, mustard out some cards and a hundred Butler. Who's like my main testing partner had sent me a few deck list ideas from some Japanese decks that played like these weird, um, RCS toolbox. They had dark energy and graphs and fighting and it didn't have the flag on. And so they just, they didn't play the, you know, the grass or one of them didn't have to be drawn. I kind of just like combine them in the deck that was a little more straightforward and just played the grass and the fighting. And we tried that out. Um, and then the next day. And I didn't go to salt lake city. And so when I had finally decided to go to Europe, um, Mon the time to prepare for the tournament and the first thing I wanted to focus on, um, was special energy again. And so the first deck that I started working with was, um, Duralon because they thought that was a pretty good car, obviously like special energy, um, not being able to attack. And, uh, I tried a couple of things would be drill, but I couldn't find exactly what's there allowed to follow the procedures. Matchup was too, too tough sometimes because they can just boss up your fighting attacker, like our season 10 index for just like so consistent with getting what they needed. Um, so I'd moved on from the stuff and, um, started working on Daralyn. How it came to that conclusion because I really liked, um, drew Kenneth's deck, which one salt lake city, because, um, played the RC has been barrel engine, which is kind of like touched for a moment. So I wanted to kind of experiment and see like how that, um, draw engine report, but just replacing the gangers, um, withdrawals. And I didn't love it. So I worked on that for like a good few weeks, but I wasn't in love with it. Um, so then I had moved on to another kind of aspect of the Metta, which I was really interested in, which was just healing, obviously, you know, to shot everything in the format for the most part, like, you know, RCS, especially in, even if you can force me to not one shot you, um, being able to abuse like Sheryl or just to repeatedly use, you know, Sharon's care, um, is very good. And so I started working on like rapid strike Inteleon deck. Um, with just multiple Sheryl, like a ton of like four chair on a pal, pat. And, um, it wasn't, uh, wasn't doing too well for me. And so I, um, I moved on from that and the biggest thing, I, I always try to stay very updated on the meadow. So I'm always looking at like YouTube videos and the comments of YouTube, those, and, you know, online tournament results from played out limitless and seeing like, just how the minute it looks like every single week, like what's playing, what's beating at what's doing well. Like I'm always I'm checking it like every day. Um, and so there was a deck that sort of popped me up out of nowhere, which was whims, a copies stern, and people were playing it's a couple of different ways, but it's pretty straight forward. They just played like to right onto Flintstone, um, straight forward on supporters, three, three of the barrel line, 4, 4, 1, 4, 3 wins. Um, and I really liked this idea. I didn't think I didn't take it very seriously at first. Um, Eventually, I figured I'd give it a whirl. I played some games with at night actually really liked it. And so, um, my testing partner for the event, I made testing partners, Cyrus Davis. Um, I worked on the deck for like two days and we actually hadn't been in communication for a minute and they had then gotten second or one K with it in Toronto. And I saw that and I messaged them and I was like, Hey, guess what tech I've been working on? And, you know, we both were really kind of excited about women's car. And so then asked like two, um, two and a half weeks preparing for the tournament was just me and Cyrus as well. Just like grinding games and finding the perfect match, you know, the perfect list that was, you know, kind of. Well, the tournament. And so eventually, you know, the Crobat was needed for just that little, extra bit of gas. It can get you in the ball count, um, when pretty heavy to see you always try and get the turn one energy. And, um, the POC came to the deck because I really enjoyed it over a third research, you know, just be able to search for the two cards that you exact two cards you're gonna research and dig for, and then drop to five with the barrel. It was very good. Um, and then Cyrus, the biggest problem with the deck was just like hitting around at the right time or just like keeping up tempo. And so Cyrus had, you know, Messaged me and said, what about experience? Sure. And that was like the best part of the deck. Um, and it was brilliant. And so we, um, put to XP share in, and firstly, I think it was two exposure when Ryan Han and then I just like hated there. I can never hit the right time. Right. I never used it over like, you know, 20, 30 games. Um, so we ended up just cutting the right-hand to Ryan Hunter to the XP share. And then the list was finished and was about a week until the tournament. And so then it was just like grinding every single matchup and just like figuring out the ins and outs of the deck. And then by the time I sat down for a round, one of the UFC, like I was ready to win the tournament. Um, so that was kinda like my whole process, but that's really kind of like how, you know, Go about, it's just, you, you find an aspect of the format that you really want to, to focus on or like build your deck around and then you kind of just like, try it out and kind of run the gauntlet against the deck. And then, um, if it works great, um, you just iron out your list and, you know, memorize all the match-ups and know exactly what to do, and if you're struggling, um, kind of move on. And so like for Indianapolis, I started working on drought on again. Um, cause a lot of people were kind of hype on drought on, I thought it's really good because obviously Urshifu is going to be popular. And you know, I think the idea of them not being able to hit you, it's very good. And then also, um, you know, just being like super tanky. Um, you know, decks not be able to tack you as well as like having hyper potion, your, your deck, um, is very good, but, um, after like about a week or so of testing, like I'm really having trouble with the me matchup right now. And so decided to move on from that deck, but that was like a car in the format, especially with, with as well, like being, uh, you know, contender in the Metta now, too. And I thought drought on was, uh, a good play. And, um, so that's where I decided to spend a lot of my time just based on, you know, the fact that, um, these special energy denial decks are now gonna be more focused on testing for what was the Cod and RCS is kinda a little more worried about her. So we thought it would be the time for a drought on to slip in there. Cause it has like the special energy denial plus healing, plus a couple other aspects. I think they're getting the meta. Um, so that's kind of like how I look at that.

Mike: 21:07

Cool. So I think we can come back to the current format in a little bit, but I kind of want to dig in a little bit more to the process because when I was, I feel like I've been involved in a lot of. Interesting DEC developments as well over the years. And I feel like you hit on one of the main ways that I think about it, which is exactly what you said, identifying some aspect about the format and exploiting it somehow. So a good example of our, um, like my group is like, the truth is a really good example of that, where nothing at that time was doing more than 120 damage without, um, trainer cards. So we exploited that by, you know, doing the Vileplume and having the rash Ram stuff that just couldn't be one chat and then you peel it off. So, um, I very much agree with that. Um, I feel like there's another, well, actually, before I move into the second way to think about it, can you think of some other decks that you've created and what the thing is that you targeted? Like, for example, our chomp Gira Tina deck, and I don't know what else.

Frank: 22:16

Yeah. So the garden gear, Tina deck is a perfect example of that. And it was like an amalgamation of a couple of different things, um, that I was interested in, in that format. Really simple as well for the deck. So the actual, the, the, you know, influential piece of that deck was the, the shadowbox Mimikyu. Um, so that was, you know, any GX or ex Pokemon had damage counters on them were, had no abilities. And so, um, I first started trying it out in a Mallomar S spread kind of deck with dragon stuff in it. Um, and it just like wasn't working very well, but that was really good because MuTu was super popular and you had absolutely no way to deal with shadow box meat. They were more prepared for and buck and like these other things. But the, the, the shadow box ability on Mimikyu was something that like no decks really were prepared for, like how to way to deal with it for me too. And so I thought that would be a unique way to, to deal with me too, that there wouldn't be prepared for as well as Zoroark decks as well. Um, you know, if you just were able to put damage on all that. Zoroark and then put this mimic you down. Um, you can't feel blower that. And so it was just a really good way to kind of deal with how rampant abilities were in the format. And then with this Mallomar dragon deck that I was kind of, um, or on, um, when I brought hunter Butler back into the deck, um, he basically said like those sex. Okay. But the best part of the deck is this guaranteed. Like, why don't you just focus on that? And so we, um, tried to do a little more geared Tina centric deck, and, um, the first thing we, you know, we, we wanted the, the synergy of gear, Tina putting, doing extra damage when stuff has damaged counters on it, as well as the amendments, you made a lot of sense. We just had to find a way to damage things. And so, you know, Coco was in there at first and then, um, I also really wanted to abuse the, um, Healing of, um, guzzler and again, at LG X with execute, because I thought that, um, Hitmonchan deck would be a threat. Like these hidden Rondex would be a threatened. And so I thought the ability to just propagate and he'll be very good. And then kind of the other piece that just made a bunch of sense was putting in Roxy because he could Roxy way to execute. You didn't have to discard your hand or do anything that you could build up a huge hand with that. Um, and it allowed you to spread damage with the wheezing, which was just phenomenal. And so everything came together in that sense, but it all just centered around this idea of ability lock, um, in a year, uh, was just, uh, you know, ended up being like the super powerful attacker. Um, eventually we just figured out, we couldn't find a way to charge it up. And so the first thing was plasma badge and plasma and energy and chorus machine, um, which didn't work, but. The Tapu Koko, um, prison star went in there and the lightening energy, and it ended up being just like absolutely phenomenal. And the deck was a huge hit and a huge success, um, because of kind of all these different aspects, like the spread and like a little bit of healing and like gear Tina, um, just all being kind of like these, these Pybas pieces that ended up coming together. And then I can actually give you another example. Um, quickly. It is, um, the deck that kind of like inspired me to make the guarantee in our trunk Decker first, which was a deck that got 19 with 19th with, at Roanoke regionals in 2018, um, which was the security, you know, Yeah, Mallomar it was the first tournament that forbid and white, it was legal at. And, um, everybody thought super bad and expanded myself included. And then on the car ride over, um, when, who was driving was in the past seat, Justin booked her. Um, he and I started coming up with this Mallomar deck that had double dragon energy in it. Um, because people thought Mallomar Necros mode would be the big deck and standard and do terrible and expanded. Um, just being able to add, um, different things in there, like, um, battle compressor and execute to discard things. And then, um, chaos wheel, because in that format, um, double the special energy was so important as well, like Zoroark and night March where the two huge decks. Um, and so to play that most of the tournament, extra mirror, one other deck was good. There was another deck that was good, then you special energy, but there was some in the Alomar deck, um, that could, oh, the Buzzroc, which was weak, the psychic.

Mike: 27:01

it was pretty good. Yeah.

Frank: 27:03

Yeah. And so it came together like, you know, the three best decks where a special 200 July in psychic week. So then, um, this Mallomar gear, Tina chaos, we all decked with like a technic crossmodal extra damage and, uh, um, deal damage. And then, you know, in the um, to attack, um, just made a ton of sense. And I ended up even getting more use out of that. I played against a, um, um, Gardevoir, uh, mega Gardevoir deck when, you know, gear, Tina can't be affected by mega evolution. And so, um, it was this cool, interesting deck that also was like, really well-poised for the tournament, just based on, you know, this wanting to. Hit for a second weekends in denied national energy. And that was kind of like how that came together for that. Um, so those are just like some aspects in different formats that really, um, became explodable on the decks. Kinda like building around them.

Mike: 27:59

Yeah, I love, I love this idea of like finding, finding something, some core thing to build a deck around and then, and then it evolves from there, but you need to keep in mind that core thing that you want to do. Like if my deck does this thing and does it really well and can do some other things as well, but like, if it does this thing, then I have a good shot. I like that idea. Um,

Frank: 28:21

Yeah.

Mike: 28:22

you go.

Frank: 28:23

Oh, I was just say, yeah, absolutely. That's, that's definitely my philosophy for deck building and it's, it's a very difficult skill for sure. Like you, you mean you have to have a pretty good retraining of the meta and it takes a lot of like scouting and figuring out what people are gonna play. If it's something you can really, um, you know, hone in and get good at it. I think that will make you a bit older, a good metal gamer. And that's why I'm super proud to be like fairly well-known for being unique decks and, and, um, and all that is because, you know, I definitely do put a lot of effort into that.

Mike: 28:55

So I do feel like there is kind of a second approach to creating a rogue deck. And I'm curious if you ever do this as well. Um, and I feel like we see that with the Urshifu deck and we see it with the Sylveon toolbox deck that got top eight, where you kind of, instead of thinking about like a core thing to exploit you think about, okay, what are the top three or four decks? And what do I do specifically? To beat each one of them. And then you kind of make a deck that does all of those little things. And I feel like the Urshifu deck is a good example, right? It is fighting to beat RCS. It has dark to beat you. And then it kind of is just a pretty good deck overall. But I mean, that's the core of it. Right? And, um, the Sylveon deck very similar, um, kind of plays a lot of different types for weakness. And so we've seen these types of decks over the years and sometimes their four corners ask and sometimes they're different, but I feel like the idea of something targeting a couple of different top level decks is a slightly different approach. Do you like that approach? Do you not like it? What do you think of that.

Frank: 30:04

Yeah, I think it all just depends how the format is. It depends on like, what mechanics do you have available to you? And like what, you know, dry engines and surgeon new have, and like how many things you need to fit in there. So for the following sky's format and the first step that I actually put Sylveon on toolbox deck. Um, and I do like those like toolbox style decks, and I even played, uh, this like CEP tile, um, GX, uh, Blockstack for, um, Roanoke regionals in 20. 19, I think, um, that had, um, a lot of different it's actually, I got streamed around nine. I lost my, what it did if anybody wants to go back and watch that. But, um, all the different tools, if you're dealing with, you know, you have the step tile, um, from special storm, that was really good at dealing with ultra beast Pokemon and they couldn't be damaged by ultra rich Pokemon. And any of the, or, um, GX, which, um, you remember what this had found DX did. It was relevant though. Um, I have to go back and look at it and then he, uh, as well. It was actually shackled up to how you played like three shackled, GX and, um, and subtile. And so you'd lock ultra sound. And you would, um, with shuffle, um, block Pokemon, I think it was a

Brent: 31:26

There, there was definitely a moment where shackles seemed like it was a good car.

Frank: 31:30

Yeah, yeah. With more than a couple energy on it. I think if they had like two or more energy, they could attack you or something silly like that. And it also could like draw your current, I think, um, been a minute since I looked at that deck, but I, I do like that approach as well. Like sometimes you can't find like a singular thing. Um, you may like have to find a couple of different aspects. You just have to find like really like how they synergize and he really needed to fit all the pieces together, which sometimes can be difficult. Um, but you just have to see, like, where are the cards for the lap and the essence of shuffle step tile. Um, you had grass typing, which was easily

Mike: 32:06

Oh,

Frank: 32:07

I'll have the ability that could like search for a grass Pokemon and obviously using the same type of energy. Um, and with the case of Sylveon you have rapid strike energy and all these like rapid, straight Pokemon that you can use the, have the different types of things. And so, um, it all depends on kind of what cards are in format and like what you have available to you to be able to do that. And, um, I think it's still a similar process. Um, it's just like, rather than explaining the game aspect of the middle, metagame like the aspect that you're explaining. It's just like multiple weaknesses as well on sometimes like that's the route you have to go down style in my mind. Um, my deck building process is the same. If I'm building one of those, like toolbox to IDEXX, rather than like a, a lock deck or like a, you know, something that's like that.

Mike: 32:52

Cool.

Brent: 32:53

So I, I have a question. Um, I mean, I think to, to the outside world, like is, as Micah Britt know, my day-to-day life is talking with a senior who is a lunatic. And, uh, uh, like I think his perception of people like you and drew and Sander is it's just like one madman idea after another, like, you know, the only thing you know, for sure is like, there's not a chance that they're gonna play the meta deck at this tournament. They're gonna, they're gonna try and you break the format. Uh, um, how much, and even as you kind of described your process, and I know like Mike and Brent do this too, you scroll through the play limitless results. And you're like, okay, show me all the weird decks. Cause I already know what the next everybody else has seen. Look like, how much do you play or test or experiment with the metadata before or during that, that process of breaking the.

Frank: 33:53

Well, I honestly, like I only play like a, a rogue deck if I do feel like. There is an option out there better than it is in the meta. Like when it comes to a tournament, I always have a deck that I'm like comfortable really reliant on. If I can't find a, you know, weird, unique deck or like a format breaking, um, deck, you know, um, I've played a lot of Gardevoir GX when that was popular. I played a lot of like buzzes, um, garb shrine in that format. Um, I played a good amount. I played a little bit of Zuora pod when that was popular. And just because I felt like those were the back stacks, I didn't really need to make, you know, create another deck or just like find something that was broken because I was just like so confident in them. And even for, um, EIC, you know, if I couldn't find a deck that I really liked, I was prepared to play, um, something that was, you know, still mad at and even for any is I'm struggling. Centering new max as well, which is the epitome of just like, you know, popular Metta deck. Um, but it all just depends. I think on like how compromised I am and how, you know, if I fill the deck is actually good and don't have a reason to like make this rogue deck. Um, but in the case of UIC, I definitely felt like it was a more attainable and, and a lot of other tournaments as well, but I I've definitely played normal decks like in the Justin, this, this current world, current season, like 20, 19, 20, 20, um, I played, um, bigger I'm in a tournament at a regional and I played, um, well Cephalon GX and again, adult tournament. Um, and so it all, it all just depends. It's you just don't garner that same amount of attention when it's not one of those techs, I guess.

Mike: 35:42

So up question, this is something I think about a lot. Um, how much do you weigh when you're making a decision? Um, between, let's say like a roguish deck and a more. Solidified metadata. How much do you weigh? Like the surprise factor? Cause like, so for me, I'm always thinking if I could play, if I think that, for example, like new, if I play new or if I play random deck, if I think a pro there approximately going to get me the say there they're about the same play there, uh, there, do you know what I mean? Like they're going to get me about yeah, yeah. Then I would almost always opt for the roguish deck because it gets me, my opponent is more likely to misplay I guess, against me. So I don't know how much do you weigh that

Frank: 36:32

Yeah, that's something that I'm incredibly. I really sometimes even use that as a crutch to just like, not have, you know, not have the best end game. I mean, I very good in game in play, but, um, you know, I'm not like toward level of like where I'm making with these huge big brain, like perfect plays in these intricate decks. Um, so I do use that as a little bit of a crutch. I think that is like a super important aspect actually. And it's something that's a reason why I love trying to find these road decks because I really do, um, you know, just having like the technology of what your opponent is playing and having tested a magical bunch and then they see your deck and they have no idea what to do, um, is, is awesome. And so sometimes I will. If I think one deck may be the better player, stay safe, play, um, you know, to win an entire tournament. Like you need a lot, you know, you, you have to play extremely well make, you know, little to no miss plays during the tournament, have a good amount of luck on your side, um, as well. And so kind of that factor of like being able to go and play these players, or, you know, just play this deck that is you feel is going to do well and get you in a day two and you can get, uh, you know, in a good spot, it kind of just gives you that like little lump that you might need to, to top eight or, you know, win the tournament. And so, yeah, I'm very much in favor of that.

Mike: 37:56

I agree with Frank, like I am not the most, like I know about myself that I'm like a really pretty good player, but I'm not like. S tier I'm not the Azule the, the towards of the world. And I know that I need to leverage every like little advantage that I could have if I'm going to win a tournament, if I'm going to play against those players. Um, and if I can get that through my deck choice, even, even beyond just deck choice, sometimes it's just like three or four cards that you throw in a metadata that if it's a little bit different and it's not just different, just to be different, but different for a good reason, then that can give you those edges. Um, when, when I did really well at a national, it was a long time ago with, during the Gardevoir year. Like I played a couple cessation crystal in my Gardevoir deck. And that was like enough of a little bit of a difference that was still very, just a good card, but it was enough of a difference that allowed me to be like, Jason and Pooka in top cut at that tournament. And I don't think I would've done that if I didn't have that, like slight variation on my list.

Brent: 39:11

Basically tech.

Mike: 39:12

Exactly.

Frank: 39:14

Yeah, I'm definitely thought of that. I, I think like, you know, I go into every tournament, like, I'm, I want to win this tournament. You know, I'm not trying to day two. I'm not trying to get points. I'm not trying to, you know, I'm like, I want to win the finals of this tournament. And I think like, you know, you're saying like having that cessation crystal or having something that when I do play, you know, toward, or, you know, Pooka or whoever you're playing on. So just having that in my deck and not having to rely on like drawing better or winning a coin flip or, um, you know, out playing my opponent, you know, knowing the matchup better than mine, you know, S tiered player opponent is just nice.

Mike: 40:00

We want to get back to the current standard.

Brent: 40:03

Sure. You know, the one other thing that I think is worth noting for me about like Frank decks that I think don't see in every rogue deck that like, uh, always impresses me about his approaches. Um, it's pretty simple, like, like the miracle of Tina chop is, you know, like it was a little bit of wacky combo. Like you could hit the combo every time. Like it was so consistent and like, if it didn't have that feature, like it wouldn't have been the deck. It was, and like, you know, putting in the liberal and like simplifying the supporter line. It's just, it just does what it's supposed to do round after round after round. And I feel like so many rogue decks, it's about like, you know, you're going to, you got to do this Wombo combo or like, you know, when the Ghana Adele has brought out, like introducing, getting to the checkmate is like, it takes a lot of

Frank: 41:01

second.

Brent: 41:03

Frank stacks. It's like, you're just going to, you know, like, turn one, turn two, turn three. Here's how it's going to be. Right. Uh, that, that say, like being able to simplify the concept is, uh, something that's super.

Frank: 41:20

Yeah, it definitely depends on the deck too. Cause I, I definitely personally like, like would much rather have like a simple deck. Like I hate having to like try and figure out these like crazy, you know, like you're saying like Wombo combo decks and like having all this technology and having to play perfectly and doing these big intricate plays. Like I'm not, you know, I don't, I don't love that. And so like if I can make it simple, I, you know, absolutely. But sometimes like that's not the taste out of it. For St. Louis regionals in 2020, like mew Cramorant. Um, so it was like the meal, um, Cramorant V deck. And that was like super complicated that had like Gillary and Birdsville and like counter energy and Coco package and like all these different one of texts he had to put in. Um, just because I felt like that was the way to build the deck and that's why like it needed for the tournament. And so, um, everyone else that played the didn't have as many reps like didn't do as well, just cause it was like so difficult and even myself, like I find myself like miss playing a couple of times, even after putting in like 100 or so games with the deck. And so if I can make it simple, like you're saying like a hundred percent, like, what was the cottage? Just like Pitt energy, every turn, attack,

Brent: 42:30

Yeah.

Frank: 42:31

Tina, the same thing. It's just set up and attack. And, um, you know, sometimes that can work, but in like a really solved format or like a really crazy format, or even expanded where you have like this huge Carter pool, um, that isn't always possible. Um, but definitely what I prefer for her the little, the less I have to think and can still win you better.

Brent: 42:54

Yeah. All right. All right. But we haven't, we haven't talked for like 45 minutes. Let's talk about the India metal.

Mike: 43:01

Well, so let's start in since, since we kind of left off with limbs and got, let's start with limbs, what do you think of limbs got going and dandy?

Frank: 43:08

Um, so I feel like it's definitely not as good as it was for etc. I think people now having deck knowledge, um, is unfortunate. Um, and, uh, you know, I think the list is like pretty, well-defined like, I'm pretty proud of my list, so there's, I wouldn't change more than like two or three cards from it. And so, um, I have one, those will definitely have like a lot of deck knowledge and now people have time to test against it. And I can't tell how seriously people are taking it or how big of a threat it's going to be. The other thing is like, I don't want to play mirror either. cause a mirror is like super annoying. So it's a deck that I'm not as excited to play if I have to. And that's kind of like speaking to what I was saying earlier. It's like I I've been working on different acts of work on drought on I've been working on, um, What else was I working on recently? Durata and I, I want to try, I tried it a little bit, which was terrible. Um, and I think that's all I've really worked on. I started working on like a Inteleon attacking deck was actually gonna put, um, Karbala one and they're like, based off some Japanese lists, but, um, haven't found anything too crazy yet. Um, but I know that I can work on all these things and then like, if nothing else pull up to the tournament and plot my whimsical, like literally in the bag from EIC, with the same sleeves and everything, I can just pull that out and play it. Um, which is nice. I think it's a fine, it's a tier two deck right now. I think it's a fine play. I think it's like, you know, probably ranked four or five. A lot of people have been putting it in their metaphor, gas, which I think is, is pretty accurate. Um, this is also the thing. It was like a tournament with 1200 people. The, you know, not all of whom are going for their worlds, invites a lot of homes, their first regional, you know, they don't really have it, you know, it's gonna be difficult for them to be 500 points to go to worlds. And all of them are chasing like day two, like myself. And, you know, I don't know, all of them are like mitigating, like super heavily and intensely. And so I could pull up a women's cot and just lay like nine random decks all day in one. And like, none of them be new or RCS or, you know, I can hit, I used to ride around a line and then RC is Zamazenta around two. And then, um, our discharges are around three and Rayquaza EMAG, you know, that would be bad. So I think

Brent: 45:25

those are the top three decks in our metaphor casts. So like,

Mike: 45:31

Well,

Frank: 45:31

think with it being such a big tournament and just like having such a wide variety of, of, of intensity of players, I think that it's a little less well poised, just because of just how, um, out of sync the men is, or just how you, how volatile the Metta is. It's not something that can do super well if you hit like one or two, you know, weird match-ups. And so that kind of worries me a little bit about the back, but I still, again, I still think it's a strong deck and I still think you can be new and RCS. And I think a lot of these players are, are not really, I'm not sure, actually, I'm not sure. If people are going to be preparing for it, like, there's definitely, you know, I think you will maybe some basic energy and a training card at most, and maybe not match is heavily or, you know, RC players will be more interested in testing for Urshifu. Um, so I think it could still it's it's still could be a fine play, but it's definitely a little more risky Brady to the turnover for sure. And so I don't want to play it, but there, you know, if I can find a deck that like a little bit better than I'm fine, I'm happy playing.

Mike: 46:38

Yeah, that makes sense. Right? I know you said you've been playing. What, what do you like right now? Or what do you not like?

Brit: 46:49

I don't really like anything really. Like I would play it like food. It seems like the best tech to me. I like the way it plays. I like just the, the agency that all the Inteleon again and again has. Um, but I just like, I, I just been very underwhelmed, I guess what I, what I mean by, I don't know, like anything is, I guess to say I've just been very underwhelmed with like everything that I've tried. It's just like RCS itself, like the decks, like Darcy and Inteleon decks that don't really play anything else other than like, it, um, it just feels very weak, like on its own. And so like, and then, then you go to like the dark package. One prize packages and then like playing that a lot of the time. It's just like your RCS is just fodder for the dark package to start being a little more effective. Um, and yeah, so a lot of that is like, I've played a lot of games with the like RFCs dark liberal and it's just like a bad dark deck. Like it's just a bad, like, I think I could play like, just Inteleon dark would be better than just playing it like that. Like I said, like I said before, the RCS just seemed to get knocked out and don't amount to much on their own. And like, like I think the Hoopa is good. I think the Hoopa is obviously like, um, yeah, or not the X V um, is a well-positioned card. I think like probably all of the, these decks, these RSTs decks is probably worth playing. Like it's not the. It's not like going to save your matchup. Like it's not that kind of tech, but I think it's worth playing, especially if you play like, like energy switch or something like that. And with Reihan, if you can pull it out of nowhere, um, you can just like potentially go up against our shoe. And I think that's one of the problems too, is I just don't think like Urshifu is difficult to tech against, like there aren't, there aren't very many like convenience psychic types that you could, you could just splash for RCS to play with. Um, people are not trying like texts, but we've seen, there are some of those like popping up. I was like, I saw some of them last night was playing with, um, uh, gosh, the cake Pokemon RCS with, um, yeah, I'm blanking on his name, playing with that. And someone at E U I C I simply made top 1 28 with Gardevoir of Emacs, um, which isn't a psychic tech. I just don't know if that, like RCS, I see us have to be built like that to beat. Urshifu like they have to be just so committed to a psychic type to be able to beat it, or they just have to take the loss. And I just, I think that's part of why Urshifu is so good is that it can just like, it can be so like almost more focused on this, like other game plan and just what the two, two or shifts to it's very noncommittal, but that's just almost, that's just enough, um, you know, in conjunction with the Sheryl and it just has a lot of HP, the HP is awkward to hit. Um, but yeah, like I think there are shoes or shoes just plainly the best deck. Like I think the new matchup is always close. Like I don't think you're ever going to go. You're going to, I don't think you're going to play mew round after round until confidence each time. Like, I think they're all going to be potential mailbox. But I do think they can, they should be going your way, like ever so slightly more often than losing. Um, but then, yeah, I'm just not sure for that. Like, I've been thinking about other stuff. Like I want to play, like try and stay a little bit more kind of for last week. Like, I don't think the civic, I don't think Lou lyrical assuming can exist and I'm at a game where double Avery is going to be pretty common. Um, and so I was going back to NTA like last week, there's things contrasting to that, that like entail can do that sewage and cans and just like the HP differences, being able to play Char's art is like a bigger attacker. I think there's something there, but it's just like, ultimately like just not on pace with something like mew, like even, even when I do think your mule game is decent, just having the weakness on NTA, um, there's other stuff. Um, but I don't think there's any other decks really on my radar. Thinking about how to play or should be right. If you need to play a Manaphy or just like, how do you know picking and choosing from all the UIC, just like those last three or four cars,

Mike: 51:23

Yeah, I agree that like, I finally got RCS is on my PTCGO account. Like I have a full set now. So I have been playing a bit of all of the different various just to get more familiar with them. But I played mostly the straight RCS Inteleon that plays water energies. And like, I agree. It's kind of like I mean, the only attack right in that deck is RCS and it's fine, but

Brit: 51:54

something that Ahmed said, I talked to him a lot about decks. We haven't, we haven't tested all, but he's someone I've just been consistently talking to, going into events, starting again. He said it's like playing and attacking lay laid back, which feels very like, uh, like on-point to me, it's just like, it's good. And like, that was like, it was really so strong. It was almost good enough just to be its own deck. Like even like towards like, um, Zora Zurich deck that played four of them was almost just a Layla, Layla even. Um, but yeah, and that's what I mean, like if it needs a part, it feels like it needs something else. I'm often very underwhelmed with the pairings that I've tried and like, like Beedrill seems pretty good to me, but then I think you're left with this question. You have to play something else. Um, like what else do you play with it? And it's like, you kind of go like, obviously, like Frank's are out with something like flagon or theirs. But the one we, I think we talked about a little bit last week, but the Magnises deck, the one that played it was RCS Inteleon or an RCS Urshifu Beedrill right. That interests me, I think like that, or I guess like maybe, um, either that or, um, our RCS Urshifu with like the dark package. Um, I just haven't really. My, my event is just a little ways off. So I haven't been thinking as hard as people playing indie are, but those are the decks. Those are the two ideas that I want to work with the most. Similarly, both like thinning down the RCS focus, like all the RCS that I've tested have been heavy for three for the most part. And I want to, I want to start trying, um, like three, two instead, and like, see how that feels, see what these decks feel like when it's not quite the emphasis. And we see, we see those sorts of lists, uh, do well consistently Lycanroc, um, their, their list from Utah, like only played three, two, which, um, so I think, I think there's something there. Um, and it's just consistent, like the ability I would pair with liberal still to be sure. Um, and that's kind of the awkwardness that I think you need, like, Inteleon goes a lot better. The drill too. It's just like, it's a better at finding all the puzzle pieces at the right time. Um, and like biblical is not good at guaranteeing anything specific. It's just like more cards all the time too is RCS. It's like pretty easy to get a hand so big, um, that you can't really, you stopped drawing well with febrile that's something I noticed playing the dark version that's popular is especially, I feel like a Sharon's pair or something like there's a ton of cards in your hand, you just picked up a, a stage one or three energy cards on it. Maybe even like, um, you know, on top of other

Brent: 54:52

Choice belt. Yes.

Frank: 54:55

I think a lot of decks really, haven't tried to utilize like a super small RTCs line, like a two, one, or like a two, two or a one, one line. Cause you know, the thought process in that is like, In the GX era. I think a lot of people would just play like Pokemon to just have a GX attack. Right. Like there's like Zorro, garb played like Yeah. So just like take the free prize. And like, there were a lot of decks. I would just like try and tech in like, you know, a few GX tech or like figure out what their GX

Brit: 55:25

Most popular

Frank: 55:27

Yeah. Tore

Brit: 55:28

more at first, but yeah, exactly. Like you say, it was just like, we might as well try to play this and I like turned, turned out to be pretty. Okay.

Frank: 55:38

And so I think a lot of decks out there exists that would like love of east star ability. Then just don't have one and RCS are like a one, one ours to be great. And we, so we thought about having a one-on-one RCS in the women's Schuchat deck, not that we ever really planned on, um, attacking with it. We just wanted to use the ability, but fluff ball. It was way too. Well, we already had like a VCR false or, um, was a little bit better in my opinion. And that's why I didn't go on the deck, but there are certain decks and like aren't reliant as much on RCS. Doing an attacker, if like, if you feel it's underwhelming, um, and if they don't need the special energy charge as well, like the, the acceleration, they could easily just play like a two on RCS or one of the nurses and just use it for the consistency purposes. And I think a great example of that, um, is ice rider. So there are a lot of ice rider Calyrex stacks that are just either like three for ice rider and then Inteleon engine, or they're like a two to three spice rider. And, you know, there are three, four RCS or like they're, you know, people have been back and forth between those two builds of the deck. But I think I started as a deck that doesn't really need an energy acceleration. Like you can just attach a Melanie and charge up your attack in one turn. Um, but it's a deck that would love the consistency of, of having a starboard and doesn't. So I think there, um, certain decks out there, and that's just one example. I'm sure there are other ones, like if you really thought about it and took the time to think about it, that, um, the definitely. Play the RCS in that capacity, I was more of a support Pokemon and not your tack or maybe it was like, not really is apparent when you're like comparing it to lately. Right. It's just like a Pokemon. That's like a really good ability. And, you know, I guess an attack if you need it. But I feel like people aren't being as creative with the current events, it could be.

Mike: 57:28

Yeah, that makes sense. And we probably only have a short window where that's even like a really good play. Right. Because as more be. stars come out, just more decks will naturally play other ones anyway.

Frank: 57:39

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Mike: 57:41

Um, I have played a lot the last few days. Uh, nothing too crazy. Um, I played mostly Urshifu and I haven't really experimented with combining the different lists, all that much. I've kind of played them in isolation just to kind of figure out what I like and what I don't like. Uh, I like to stop those list a lot. I think it's really, really, really good. Um, it feels like the whole, like yoga loop B plan is just not really necessary right now in this format. And so I'd rather have the Moltres V I'd rather have the energy switch. Um, so I really don't go

Frank: 58:21

asked you a question.

Mike: 58:22

Yeah.

Frank: 58:23

What do you like about the Salvos list over the, um, obviously not like having this intricate yoga would be, um, well, let's compare it to like the American list for here. I see the plate, like the new celebration, like some other stuff like that. Um, what do you, what makes you like those so much? Cause I know.

Mike: 58:46

No. Well, so I guess I really liked the Moltres V I think that's really, really good against a mew. And it's good against a lot of the things that I think might come out to try and counter RCS or counter Urshifu. Um, so for example, another deck that interests me, that is a little more fringe. Uh, and I, Frank, I just saw you comment on Twitter right before is that our CSM is entered deck. Um, we can get more into that, but like, that's actually a really good example of a deck that in theory gets a lot stronger. In a Metta filled with Urshifu, but Moltres V is like just a natural kind of backwards counter to that because it can one shot, maybe the Zamazenta if they don't have the tool. Um, and like, I was actually playing against sprints on Liam last night and I was trying to RCS Zamazenta deck against the Urshifu and the mattress was a great, it was really good. Um, so I think the mattress is really strong, uh, and in conjunction with that, the energy switch allows you more options to go rapid flow to turns neuro. Um, so I played some games against Mallomar and I was able to pull, uh, like I rapid flowed killed two things, and then they couldn't get the knockout. And then I was able to rapid flow again immediately. The next turn, even though they didn't take a knockout. And that just like put me so far ahead, maybe it was when more in that situation. I don't know. but, um, I did really like the mew though from Isaiah and Justin's list. Uh, so I might be interested in going like one store lax, one mew. Um, Yeah. I think both lists, I don't love that only has three net, but I don't know if you can like fit the fourth net back in there. Um, that's one thing that I didn't love. I think the S the, the terror water stadium is like one of your weakest cards. So I wonder if there's a way to, um, like play something else besides that. Um, but Yeah. those are some of my thoughts.

Frank: 1:00:54

Nice. I actually, in spite of the controversial opinion, I don't like Urshifu for this gentleman at all. I at least in my observation, and like, I personally feel like these RCS lists, um, can really tech heavily for it. Like, I feel like if your opponent's playing Manaphy and Hooper B and even what if they're without, Dunsparce like, Dunsparce even makes it worse. But I, I think even if they just have like, I feel like these Urshifu projects, like have a really hard time, or like, at least in the few games that I've played in, like something I've watched and liked have communicated back and forth with people. I feel like Urshifu is going to be pretty like heavily targeted. And sometimes I, like, as of today really decided that it's just like, not a deck that I would be comfortable playing.

Mike: 1:01:46

Yeah, I don't know if I actually think, it's a great play. I've mostly just been. I'm not going to Indy. So like I'm just really interested in playing and understanding index. And so, yeah, I kind of agree. I don't know, a first year who is like the best play this weekend for a lot of those same reasons. Um, and you know, despite it like having a pretty solid game plan against you, I would still be a little afraid of the matchup. I don't think it's like super favorite either way. Um, but I.

Frank: 1:02:19

Yeah, I think, I think the it's better for Urshifu, um, in general, but I think I really in-tune new player who was tested a match up of bunch, like will win more games than not, but I think you have to be like really well-educated on the Metro, which is like, um, it's, it's pretty difficult. Like. I don't think that I could like pick up new tonight. And then by this weekend, like we ready to are just like super familiar with the matchup or it would take like a lot of games. And so I think if it's not something that you've tested extensively, Urshifu, we'll probably want a lot of the time, but I think you has the best in a vacuum. I think when you has a more favorable match up with both players play perfectly.

Mike: 1:03:04

Um, I played anything else. Oh, I, I like Mallomar. I think Mallomar is pretty good. That's kind of. If I was going, and even for New Jersey, it's kind of like my backup play. I feel comfortable playing it. I think it's in an okay spot. I don't think the Urshifu matchup is actually that bad. Um, you could maybe even get away with, and this might sound crazy, but I think you can maybe even get away with not playing Manaphy and then the mat and the match-ups still not be in that bad. Um, because like, Avery is just pretty bad for it. And so like, if you have to put Manaphy down and the Avery you, like, I don't know, you're in kind of a really awkward spot. So like, Avery is bad for the deck in general, but, um, I think if you're just able to get the Kao immediately after they rapid flow you once, like you just traded three prizes for two and you're pretty okay with that. So, um, I think Mallomar Mallomar is not super great interview either. Um, the match-ups probably slightly unfavored, but. I think it's just like a pretty solid deck and one that I'm comfortable with. So that would kind of be like my backup play.

Brent: 1:04:16

I wanted to ask you guys what you thought about, uh, um, yeah, I think know when you're talking about scrolling through a list and seeing like random decks that did okay. Uh, a Piper appliance RCS, a Mallomar BMX, uh, it was like a deck where I was like, okay, that's a, that's a player that obviously had a lot of successes at junior and senior, but like first success they've ever had as a master, uh, playing a pretty rogue deck. Uh, you wonder if, if someone like a, a Frank or a grant manly or something would look at that and say, if I refine this, I can turn it into the greatest tech of all time.

Frank: 1:04:50

I am. I've been talking with a few people that actually think that it could potentially be a really good play. Um, and I actually played Piper in, um, EIC and they are a phenomenal player. Actually. I was really impressed, but oh yeah, just amazing player overall. And, um, how did x-ray well, and I looked at, um, Twitter afterwards, not the comments, um, about the deck that they had, um, tweeted out and, um, were saying that it would do. You know, probably should be played with max potion or next question. Um, hyper potion. I think that's a great idea. And I think that, um, that is definitely a deck that could use, um, you know, if somebody were to spend some time off, could definitely come out of it would work for sure. It's not one that I've like personally put time into, but I think that is definitely easily could be a deck that surprises, um, people at the tournament. For sure. If there's like a group out there that's, you know, testing it extensively and has a good list and is prepared to play it. I would not be surprised to see one top eight this weekend.

Mike: 1:06:03

What do you think of that? Our CSM has entered deck.

Brent: 1:06:06

Yeah. That's definitely. I talk about that's that's the new, I feel like that's like the hot new spice, right?

Frank: 1:06:11

I was really interested in it at first. And then I just played a couple of games with it and it was kind of overwhelming or underwhelming to me. Um, I feel like a lot of decks were just kind of getting around that, um, uh, you know, only doing 130 damage, um, And you being able to just like chain, you know, max miracles and power tablets and, um, just like shuffling themselves in the deck and just like repeatedly, um, um, I don't know what the attack that new shovels itself in leap week. Um, I was just getting beaten by a lot of really smart new players and I had lost like random stuff, like, um, RC Strout, obviously being able to get through your, um, attack and like, um, just RCS decks in general that were better poised to, you know, Lupe Sharon's care and, you know, do things, um, in the RCS mirror then your deck was, I just felt like I was really underwhelmed by it. I think it's a big concept. And, um, I think it's like a super cool deck, but it's just not one that I'm like, I'm fairly confident in. I think we can see it. Like, dude, I think one could make day two for sure though.

Mike: 1:07:23

Yeah, I kind of had some similar thoughts after playing it. Um, Brent, I don't know if you were watching Liam play me last night.

Brent: 1:07:29

was not, but I heard the screaming afterwards.

Mike: 1:07:32

So like both of the games he had cut Sheryl from his Urshifu lists, like right before our games and both games, he would've won if he just played one Cheryl. And so I assume most search firms will play a Cheryl and like, I for sure it would just lose. Um, so I was a little disheartened disillusioned after those games were realizing that, you know, the deck that you're almost like the reason that you're playing Zamazenta essentially is for the Urshifu metric, right. With RCS and to not really be confident in that matchup, just kind of like shakes the foundation of why would you play the deck? Um, So it's cool. It's a cool concept. And I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if it did. Okay. But not as excited as I was 48 hours ago.

Frank: 1:08:22

I think it's one of those decks here that just falls under that umbrella of like, this is a huge chairman. And if you like don't, if you hit some weird match-ups, you know, you're going to have a bedtime for sure.

Brent: 1:08:34

the one other random deck I wanted to ask you guys about was, uh, um, Sanders on, on deck. Like I recognize versus other stuff. I feel like Sanders played, uh, I feel like people watch the stream and thought I understand how to play this deck. Well, when people look at that and say, I should definitely play Umbrian stall because like it beats all these two.

Mike: 1:08:59

I think it will be more popular than his other deck because it's easier to play.

Brent: 1:09:04

Yeah, I think, I think maybe too, to the point of like Frank's con Frank's earlier tweets, you probably looked at the embryo at that. I could learn how to play this deck.

Frank: 1:09:17

I, um, I haven't looked too much into it. I think it's a fine play. It loses to one with college, for sure. It's like a,

Brent: 1:09:23

Right. Thanks.

Frank: 1:09:24

at least the way the list is the way the list is now. I'm sure you can change up a little bit. Um, I actually bumped into me, um, Sunday night in ESC and he was explaining to me how the deck work and how to play it and like, what should he feel? And it seemed like pretty straight forward and pretty strong. Um, it's, it's, uh, again, you know, just one of those decks that you gotta make sure you hit the right match ups. Um, and so like, you know, texts like when Jakafi, or, you know, some other deck that, you know, might, uh, be able to get around that DEXA complain, like tool scrapper, um, Could potentially just like foil the deck. And so I think for this tournament, I would just be most confident playing like a very consistent, like tried and true deck. I can just beat any deck if I had just played good kind of thing. Whereas like these like Zamazenta and dumb, um, Brianne and, uh, even ones are just like, um, a little bit Metta rewind or magic Alliance. So it's kind of scary going into the terminal.

Mike: 1:10:32

So there's one other deck that, uh, has kind of been in and out of my mind, I was watching a little stream the other day and he played against it. And it was funny because he, so, and it's stone joiner, just like stone joiner. VMX just straight up. And so I was watching as well. And like at the beginning of the, I think was always playing mew. Maybe I don't remember exactly, but, uh, at the beginning of the game it was always like, oh man, don't join her. It actually seems like pretty good. And then like, then he beat it. And by the end of the game, he was like, nah, I was wrong. Um, but I was reminded because, uh, I was just looking through the tournament the late night tournament that's going on right now. And when we first started the podcast, there there's a stone Droner at four. No. And I was like, oh man, cool. And now it's four and three. Um, I dunno, have you, like, in theory, the concept is kind of interesting, right? You just get the stone joiner out and you heal a bunch. It's probably quite good against Urshifu it's probably quite good against RCS cause you're fighting, but I guess you're probably not very good against you, especially if they play an echoing horn. So I dunno. Have you thought about that at all?

Frank: 1:11:44

going to be honest, that is a deck that as soon as I saw it first get popular, I was like, absolutely not. Like, I don't understand. I'm like, how is this? I'm like, I don't understand it. And maybe it's just like going right over my head. Um, I even watched like one or two, you know, YouTube clips or different videos of people playing it. And like, for me, I don't, I, I don't get it. It's cool deck for sure. Why it's cool or what it does no idea.

Mike: 1:12:14

Yeah.

Frank: 1:12:15

cause you have to like attach energy to heal. You have to accelerate energy, but then you also like take it off. Like they share it. Like, I don't understand, like how are you getting an attack? That's not the heli attack. Like when do you actually

Mike: 1:12:28

you don't play Cheryl. Cheryl's not a card you play, you just play all the other, like really bad healing cards. Like I'm

Frank: 1:12:34

Like lucky icicle or

Mike: 1:12:35

lucky. I thought, yeah, the only times I've lost to it on ladders when they flip like seven Bucky ice pop heads. And I'm like, but it's funny.

Frank: 1:12:48

Oh man. Now I got to go look at this deck right now. This is interesting,

Mike: 1:12:52

It's all the way down at four and three now. So you're going to have to scroll a little

Brent: 1:12:55

harder to find harder to find

Frank: 1:12:57

Yeah.

Brent: 1:12:59

All right guys. So one more question. Let's play a fun prediction event for all you guys. Um, the, the like Isaiah Bradner roll, Sam, blah, blah, blah, testing group. Uh, I feel like there, I don't know if I want to say that their plays were predictable at the last two tournaments. They all showed up it, but like, I feel like RCS Inteleon we kind of saw coming and they. And the liberal and refine the list. And I don't know if we would have said Urshifu like, we saw that coming, but like maybe we could've seen that coming. Is there, like, do you guys have any predictions for like what this core group of top players might play? Like interestingly, if they played very metadata X and in that respect, I wonder if there's some element of a predictability to where they evolve from here.

Frank: 1:13:51

Um, I can easily see them playing Urshifu again. I think

Brit: 1:13:55

to say more.

Frank: 1:13:59

I can definitely see them doing that again. a lot of soft players. I really do just think the play is me, this tournament. And I think a lot of players will just kind of go to that as well. Um, I, I wish I were a better me. I actually hate the back and I think it's the best play in it. It's so unfortunate. Cause like I don't want to play it, but, uh, I really do think it's good. And so I think a lot of players, um, will be on that as well, but I can also see in them play RCS. Um, but I, if I had to bet money on it, I would put money on Urshifu again.

Mike: 1:14:36

Hmm, I might bet on you, If not only because they've played RCS, they played Urshifu new is the, uh, the third

Brent: 1:14:46

it, if it never played you, then they denied the Metta completely.

Mike: 1:14:50

Well, Andy and I will say like at the w remember when I first made my hot take predictions for this format, Bradner was like, so gung-ho from you. He thought I was insane for saying that you wouldn't win any of the major event. By the way it's only one, one, it's only one, one. So I feel like I'm a little bit, um, justified now. Uh, but, but they, I think Bradner in particular, like actually really likes me. So I wouldn't be surprised if they went back to mute.

Frank: 1:15:22

I think music a very good player. I can definitely see a lot of the top players playing like Pablo and like kind of some of those players that aren't, I don't know who exactly fits with it. Like I know like Bradner and Johnny and roll around in that group. But I think for like some players who, I'm not sure who they're testing with, or I don't know, like what you've grouped or whatever, like, you know, like exact size or Pablo or, um, I'm trying to think of like, who else is just like a player? Um, that is obviously very like, as a whole, like, I don't, I'm not sure, like if there's like a group of people that will pull up with the same deck, but I, I could easily see just like a top player, like coming to the tournament and just like, knowing that muse, like very good and playing it.

Brent: 1:16:00

Right, right. Definitely. Definitely. Guys. Anything else we should talk to? The John Paul's our ultra music.