Chiropractic Care for Moms and Babies: Easing Pregnancy, Birth, and Breastfeeding Challenges

Did you know that chiropractic care can significantly ease common newborn and pregnancy challenges? On this episode of Spilling the Milk, we welcome Dr. Zora, a chiropractor with 13 years experience in the field and a passion for women's health, pregnancy, and pediatric care. She loves helping people be pain free and feel their best using all natural and holistic means. Since becoming a mother, she has shifted her focus to working with women and kids. She loves bringing awareness to how chiropractic care can help prepare mothers for an easier labor and birth and also help babies with some of the common things they experience such as colic, fussiness and latch issues.

In this episode you will learn how gentle adjustments can address newborn latch issues, jaw restrictions, and tongue ties, ensuring a smoother breastfeeding experience for both mom and baby. We also tackle the lesser-known causes of infant problems like flat head syndrome and colic and how early chiropractic assessments can make a difference.

Ever wondered how to make pregnancy more comfortable and labor more manageable? Discover how chiropractic care and prenatal yoga can be a game-changer for pregnant women. Dr. Zora discusses techniques like the Webster technique and muscle work, which balance the pelvis and alleviate pain, setting the stage for a smoother delivery. Complementing chiropractic care with prenatal yoga can help expectant moms tune into their bodies, manage discomfort, and prepare mentally and physically for labor. This holistic approach not only enhances physical health but also fosters a sense of empowerment throughout the pregnancy journey.

Lastly, we address the emotional and physical hurdles of breastfeeding, especially after an unexpected C-section. Sharing personal experiences, we highlight the importance of accurate diagnosis and support for breastfeeding mothers, emphasizing the impact of proper care on both the baby’s and the mother’s well-being. 

Follow Dr. Zora on Instagram: @drzora_lunachiropractic

Email: drzora.lunachiropractic@gmail.com

Transcript

Emily: 0:08

Hello and welcome to Spilling the Milk, the podcast where we talk about the joys and the challenges of breastfeeding. We talk to different moms and different experts and the goal is for every mom who is trying to make breastfeeding work for them feel like part of a community and not feel alone and not feel like they're the only one going through this. So thanks for joining Today. I'm excited to welcome my guest, dr Zora. She has a chiropractic practice near me in southeastern Michigan. We actually met in person at a recent event for new parents called Babies and Bumps, detroit, and we had already been following each other on social media and it just made sense to chat a bit in person and then bring her on the podcast. So I'm excited to dive in with her today about chiropractic care for newborns and moms, and she specializes in this area and I have questions for her. I'm curious anything I can do to bring information to you about your options for supporting your health as the mom and your baby's health. That's what I'm here for. So let's talk to Dr.

Dr. Zora: 1:15

Zora. So I am a chiropractor. I've been practicing for 13 plus years now. I got into chiropractic because I really love helping people, and definitely the natural, holistic way too. I think there's like enough medications out there and invasive procedures that people are definitely looking more towards what's more natural. People are definitely looking more towards what's more natural. How can I be healthier without really band-aiding, I guess, different things. So, and then the last few years I have been more interested in mostly working with women and kids and I've done my pediatric seminars that I've taken and Webster certified. It's a chiropractic technique geared towards balancing the pelvis in pregnancy, which I'll talk about some more later, I'm sure.

Dr. Zora: 2:21

But yeah, so I've always um loved working with women and kids, but ever since I became a mom about three years, almost three, four years ago now um, it's like me learning from my own experiences, both for me myself when I was pregnant, postpartum and you know babies and kids um, that that's really like the my main focus. I just love um babies and kids. That that's really like the my main focus. I just love helping moms and kids the natural way also, excuse me so. So, yeah, that's been my focus.

Dr. Zora: 2:58

I've I was working in a group practice and more recently I branched out on my own in a group practice and more recently I branched out on my own. It's something I've always wanted to do also, so it's been awesome. Actually, the last three months I've been on my own and just building my practice that way and that's how kind of I met you, because I was at a event and just trying to get the word out about, you know, chiropractic, especially in for women, pregnancy, postpartum and babies and kids. So that's where I'm at right now. I'm just I love bringing awareness about chiropractic, and for kids especially. I think. Still a lot of people are like you know, why would a baby need to be adjusted? Like, why does a baby need to see a chiropractor? And there's many reasons which, again, I'm sure we will get into. But yeah, that's why I love what I do. It's it makes a big difference in people's lives.

Emily: 3:59

Yeah, no, and I'm happy to have you in my referral network. So when I'm meeting with a mom in my support group or in my breastfeeding class and it sounds like maybe they or the baby would benefit from chiropractor care, now I have a local resource to refer them to.

Dr. Zora: 4:12

So that's really lovely.

Emily: 4:14

And actually I think, maybe dive right into the benefits of chiropractic care for babies and kids, because I think we can wrap our heads around an adult going to see a chiropractor, but maybe not a baby. So yeah, enlighten me.

Dr. Zora: 4:29

Yes, so I'll tell you a lot of times why someone would bring in their baby is because latch issues, like that is one of the number one things. They're having latch issues and actually their lactation consultant would recommend chiropractic. So that's one of the reasons. And with the latch we assess the jaw first and the cranial bones, the neck, and then definitely look in the mouth for any ties, neck and then definitely look in the mouth for any ties. So this is my experience.

Dr. Zora: 5:10

But a lot of ties are actually missed by many professionals. So there are a couple of different tongue ties and the most well, I shouldn't say most common, but the most obvious one is an anterior tie, so everybody can kind of see that. You know anyone can look. But there's another one that also occurs, but it's a posterior tie and almost everyone misses that one. So that's something I would love to educate, even like lactation consultants, because they miss it as well.

Dr. Zora: 5:40

I mean pediatricians miss it, lactation consultants, the moms miss it so, and that is it definitely affects the latch as well. I mean pediatricians miss it, lactation consultants, the moms miss it so and that is, um, it definitely affects the latch as well. It affects reflux, um the feeding, so, um, it's something I definitely look for, and, um and then with the jaw, if there's any restrictions, um, I work on loosening that. Sometimes that alone definitely changes things, and we also assess if the baby needs a revision or not. Not all babies do, especially if they are, let's say, they are latching and I do find that there is, let's say, a posterior tie. But breastfeeding is comfortable and baby's doing well. We kind of just kind of leave it alone, yeah.

Emily: 6:30

I actually had a mom like that, who everything was going well, and she was like I just I feel like the latch could be better, but I have no real issue. And I just reflected back to her like it sounds like you don't necessarily want to change anything, you are just recognizing that you, you feel this way. So I have seen that happen for sure.

Dr. Zora: 6:51

Yes, yes, so that's what the lash. Another thing, actually, this one it's more like sometimes parents come in for themselves to get adjusted and their baby is, you know, in the car seat let's say, you know, waiting, and I look and the baby's head is like this, you know the whole time, or turned, you know, to the side, either side, and it's just so obvious to me, right, because I know what I'm looking for. But usually I'll ask the parent I'm like, are they always like this, you know, do they kind of look like they're always preferring to be the one side, or their head is always in a tilt? They think about it and they're like, actually, yeah, you know, I didn't think of it. So that's something you definitely want to address early on, because those are the restrictions in the neck and those restrictions, if not resolved, they, you know.

Dr. Zora: 7:42

Imagine if the baby's always turned to one side. They're always when they sleep they're turned this way that part of their head is contacting the, you know, heart surface, that's the bed. So then they develop that flat spot and it's so common nowadays, so it could be either side, and sometimes the flat spot is like right, right, death center, yep, and that one I find a lot with the babies that sleep for a long time, which is, you know, you think it's a good thing, right, but they're always, like you know, in some kind of container. It's either like the bed, or you know those like mama ruse or whatever containers um, sometimes in a car seat for too long, um, so you definitely want to do something about that. And another misconception is they'll just grow out of it, like some will just say, oh, you know, it's okay, they'll grow out of it. That's not true, they don't. They just the body adapts, but not in the best way. And then you have other things going on later.

Emily: 8:42

And does that start in utero? Does it? Is it affected by the way they were birthed, or is it start when they are constantly sleeping in one position and just sort of like perpetuates?

Dr. Zora: 8:52

That's a great question and actually they think it could be any of those things. Okay, so it could start from in utero, the way the baby was in there, if they were like not able to move as much and get in the best position, if they were like a breech baby transverse. All of those things can affect, and sometimes it's the actual birthing process, where they stuck for a long time. You know, and sometimes actually even that quick birth is traumatic too. So birth in general can be pretty traumatic for the baby, whether it was like a home birth, you know, c-section, a long birth using forceps or vacuums all of these things can be traumatic.

Dr. Zora: 9:37

So it could start there, it could start with the birth, and then it could just be the way they're held. Maybe you're always holding your baby on that one side and then they turn their head and look out, you know, because they want to see the world. That could be another reason or the way. Yeah, they're sleeping, okay, but usually I feel like the sleeping, you know, if they are preferring one side, is because they just can't turn the other way, right, you know it's because they just can't turn the other way, right? You know it hurts, it doesn't feel good, so then they're always just to the one side, and that's where I come in to assess well, where is it that it's restricted, just like in an adult, but the adjustment for the baby is completely different than an adult.

Emily: 10:20

So if you've been adjusted yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Zora: 10:24

So we're not like twisting, there's no cracking. You're never, ever supposed to hear a crack actually. Yeah, yeah, it's very light pressure specifically to the joint that needs it. Never twisting, never popping. It's just a completely different way of adjusting and that's why it's a really good idea if you do decide to take your baby or small child to a chiropractor, make sure that they have that pediatric background.

Emily: 10:50

That makes sense. I think I have heard that you can even have the chiropractor come to the hospital like very soon after birth. Is that useful?

Dr. Zora: 11:00

So the hospital thing is, I believe, is dependent on the state. So in some states chiropractors do have the privilege to go to the hospital. You need the hospital privileges. I don't think in Michigan we do.

Dr. Zora: 11:15

Technically, yeah, but what I recommend to you know, my pregnant mamas, that I see I always emphasize how important it is to bring the baby in like a week, that first week of life. The first week of life is really important because imagine if something was going on from in utero or the birthing process and then the baby's, like you know, adapting to that rapidly soon after birth, adapting to that rapidly soon after birth, you know, other things can start happening, like the latch issues, like the flat head, colic reflux, all those things are affected. But yeah, so for me personally, what I would love to do and it's something I've actually thought of for years now is to give the mom an option to have me go over there that first few days, first week, even first couple of weeks, if they don't want to leave their home. I totally understand, I've been there, you know. Go there and check the baby.

Emily: 12:22

Yeah, I think that'd be a really useful service and one of the benefits like putting myself in the place of the new mom is just having someone with so much experience seeing babies and assessing their health and just being able to say, like everything looks good, or yes, we did this adjustment and now at least you've taken care of like one variable, you know, in terms of breastfeeding success, like well, I can tell you their, you know their alignment is fine, I've checked their jaw, I've checked for ties. So if there's still a different issue now here's what you could look into. But you're at least like giving them reassurance, like an expert opinion Cause, when it's your first baby, like you have nothing to compare it to. Is this normal? Is this the rarest condition that could possibly happen? Is it somewhere in between?

Dr. Zora: 13:10

Yeah, no, exactly, that's exactly it and that's why I really do emphasize that like, even like the first couple of days, if everything went okay, you know the baby doesn't need to be in the NICU or anything Definitely the first couple of days, if not that first week, it's so, so important and, just like you said, it totally makes sense. So let's rule out, you know, those like biomechanical things that could be happening and then you know, then figure out, well, is it like that positioning, you know when you're breastfeeding, is a problem. You know, can we, what other things can we do? You know for that, but yeah, you just you want to like rule out as many with babies is, what I've learned personally is you're always like trying to rule out things because they're a brand new person to you know, they're just, they've never been here before.

Dr. Zora: 13:57

So everything is is new and and you know, I'm sure you know this but you know they talk about how natural it is to breastfeed. I don't know about that, you know it's. It's it truly like? I think, yes, we obviously need it, but natural in the way that it doesn't come naturally to everyone and even the baby, right, well, in most of history you would have seen your aunt nursing, your cousin nursing, your best friend nursing.

Emily: 14:25

It would have been very normalized. You would have been like immersed in that culture. You would have had your mom, your aunt, your cousin, your sister, sort of like helping you, also taking care of you. So in the best circumstances, where you it's like part of the culture and you have all this support, yeah, it should feel somewhat like a natural thing you do after you give birth, but in our society it does not get treated that way, and so there definitely is a learning curve for mom and baby. I would say more so, maybe, than in some other cultures.

Dr. Zora: 14:55

Yes, yeah, yeah, that totally makes sense.

Emily: 15:00

But I love the idea of you working hand in hand with a lactation consultant. Oh yeah, you have the same goals as the welfare of the mom and the baby. I do want to switch from baby to mom because I think there a misconception I see is that like you have no control over the way your birth is going to go. That it's just sort of like a crapshoot, and I think it is empowering for women to know that you can be doing things during pregnancy like prenatal yoga, like seeing a chiropractor, like getting prenatal massage that can set your pelvis up for success during labor and delivery. So could you speak a little bit about the benefits of seeing a mom when she's pregnant?

Dr. Zora: 15:42

Yes, definitely, I'm glad you brought that up. It's again I can tell you from experience. If you were to interview every mom I've ever, you know, treated while pregnant, and this is just the ones I've seen, not, you know, I'm sure if you interview other chiropractors who also see pregnant women, they will report that they, their labor, their delivery and even their postpartum is like so much smoother. And I'm telling you these are some of the moms also that this was their second or third kid too. So they're, you know, they're comparing right to their other birth and they're like I wish I would have done chiropractic care while I was pregnant with my other pregnancies, because it makes a huge difference and you know, sometimes I get the question a huge difference. And you know, sometimes I get the question when should a pregnant you know a pregnant patient see a chiropractor?

Dr. Zora: 16:43

It's like at any point really, but definitely as soon as you find out you're pregnant, if you were not already under chiropractic care. Because if we start from the very beginning, things start to expand and ligaments start to tighten and muscles right. If we can start from the beginning balancing your pelvis, then as you grow you will grow more balanced, right? You're not, if you know. So structurally we can definitely work on things early, early on. But I've definitely also had moms that come in like close to their third trimester and it's because that's when they heard about chiropractic, you know. So it's like, of course I'll see you, of course I'd love to help more, but yeah, it's really it's. It does make a big, big difference and I think that also and I think that also not only is it helpful for the mom, because then you feel great, right. You know, during pregnancy like another thing that sometimes I get, when I get a new pregnant patient, they're like oh well, I have this pain. Well, it's normal, right. I'm like Well, not really, it's common, it's very common, right.

Dr. Zora: 17:51

But, it's not normal. You shouldn't be in pain. I personally and I do talk about this I was not in pain during pregnancy. I actually had a very easy pregnancy and I've only been pregnant once and I only have one child, right, and I never, ever thought that because I'm so, I was surrounded by whoever would get pregnant around me. Usually they would have back pain, at least right For sure, or have a hard time walking or moving around. I worked until the very last day. I worked a Thursday and I had my son on a Tuesday. Yeah, you know, and my job is physical, right, right, true, so it definitely is possible.

Dr. Zora: 18:31

I definitely credit chiropractic care for myself and yoga. I did a lot of yoga. I did yoga for years before that and during pregnancy, and I was pregnant while it was COVID also, so you couldn't really go to the gym or anything, so I just did it at home. So even now, when I, you know, when I advise my patients, I always give them stretches and exercises as well, and a lot of them are very they're like yoga stretches, right, yoga exercises, and I'm like you don't have to go to the gym, you can do them from home. You know, it really helps to prepare the body, and it works hand in hand with what I'm doing, because I will adjust and balance the pelvis and give them these stretches and exercises to keep it that way, right To maintain, so they're not so dependent on me, right Like I don't. I want to give them control over their bodies as well.

Emily: 19:23

Well, and I think so. For me, some of the benefits of prenatal yoga is that you are tuning into your changing body. So you're doing the same pose that you did last week, last month, and you're like, oh, when I do it now, it feels this way. Something surprising is that you actually can become more flexible because the changes going on in your body are opening up your joints and making you more flexible. So you do have to be careful, but like, oh, this is interesting.

Emily: 19:47

So I love how you said that because you're not going to be with them 24 seven, you're going to adjust them, keep them maintained, but they are with themselves 24 seven, and so they need to be able to tune into their own changing body what feels good, what doesn't. And then I love prenatal yoga for learning to stay in discomfort without freaking out, because that's the success. If you're going to go through labor, can you sort of lean into calm, into a sensation, and you can practice that when you're doing prenatal yoga in like a low stakes way. So it sounds really complimentary that the chiropractic care with you then recommending that they do stretches and yoga on their own.

Dr. Zora: 20:28

Oh yeah, definitely. I've never not recommended or given yoga to a patient, yeah for sure. And another thing that really helps is with yoga you do just like you said it's, you know, you stay in those positions that are kind of uncomfortable and it really helps. And while you do that, you are doing that deep breathing. So another thing that's preparing you right for labor, because to get through it you do need to breathe, and the right way yeah, and to make that automatic.

Emily: 20:57

So to make your automatic response to discomfort to be to deepen your breath, to stay in it, to tell yourself you're going to be okay, you're going to get through this, yes, yeah.

Dr. Zora: 21:06

That's invaluable for labor, yeah, and being a parent oh yeah, all of all of it, right, All of it. And another thing that is very similar and complementary in both chiropractic you know, treatments, care and yoga is that, because you're kind of slowing down and it's more of like a stretch and a breathing, they both access that parasympathetic nervous system right, which helps you relax. And if you do it enough, it does kind of become more like automatic, like you said, like a natural. And when you are in labor, actually, if you are, if you do slow down and allow your body to relax, that's when it will go smoother rather than being in that sympathetic state.

Emily: 21:59

Yep, I'm actually writing a book about that right now.

Dr. Zora: 22:03

That's the whole thesis. Yes, yes, oh, there you go. Yeah, so there's a lot there, and so I can just give you an example of how chiropractic care, especially during pregnancy, accesses the parasympathetic system. Yes, part of the parasympathetic system is in the pelvis, it's in your sacrum, sacrum and lumbar spine, and when I work with pregnant mamas, that's mainly where I go to adjust and work.

Emily: 22:33

Yeah, I work with pregnant mamas. That's mainly where I go to adjust and work, yeah, and then in labor, because I know like I've had a doula who did a hip squeeze or did like a heating pad with a tennis ball going, probably on my sacrum, basically. So, yeah, that's like clicking for me now that that's where she was focusing her.

Dr. Zora: 22:48

Yeah, yeah, and that's where it accesses the parasympathetic system, that system of like, okay, relax, and then things can happen.

Emily: 22:56

Yes, you know not being in that fight or flight, which is tough because we like to control, we like to have a plan and we like to control the outcome. And in labor that is not what you need to do. No, yeah. So as soon as you said you became a mom three or four years ago, I knew you had a COVID baby, so you went through the very unique situation of being so isolated. I just talked to a mom yesterday and she said all of her prenatal visits were over Zoom. She was taking her own blood pressure and she bought her own Doppler and had to learn how to find her baby's heartbeat on her own and then report it over Zoom to her doctor. I was like that really happened. Wow, okay, that was not.

Dr. Zora: 23:38

Okay, yeah, no, that's really extreme. Maybe I'm not sure maybe that happened like like March or April son in. July 2020. So, yeah, what happened was oh, I do remember my 20-week ultrasound, which is the anatomy scan. Yep, my husband couldn't go with me, it was just me. That's the best part.

Dr. Zora: 24:07

I know, and it's like our first baby right, our only baby and I was by myself in there. That was kind of sad, yeah yeah. And then all the other appointments I want to say they were I was by myself. Yeah, yeah, I was by myself. And then having him in the hospital, it was only me and my husband, like no visitors, which in a way that was kind of nice, honestly honestly, I know you didn't even have to tell anybody.

Dr. Zora: 24:34

No, you were just like oh, this is the hospital policy. So it was nice, it was intimate, our son was with us the whole time, so yeah, and then can you speak to your own experience with breastfeeding.

Emily: 24:46

How did that? How did your start go and how was your journey?

Dr. Zora: 24:49

Yeah, and this is where I learned a lot, and this is actually one of the reasons why I delved more into the ties, because prior to that, I really didn't deal with a lot of ties and, to be honest, I was also someone who would have missed the posterior tie and I did. So what happened with my own experience is I didn't have the best experience and in the hospital, you know, I definitely wanted to breastfeed. I mean, my vision of breastfeeding was because I had such a good pregnancy, right, everything's going well, and with all my knowledge and everything I'm like, I definitely want to breastfeed for a good year, right In the first 12 months. Well, it right in the hospital. So I think what kind of you know triggered everything was I ended up with a C-section, so they say so that was a little bit of a traumatic thing for me because I always wanted, you know, all natural. You know that was that's what was in my mind. Again, this is something I, when I do have patients now, you know, I try to tell them like sometimes you do, you know you have expectations, but always just be open to other things, right? So anyway, I'm not going to go too much into that, but I think that was something because it wasn't expected and it happened. It just kind of derailed my mind, kind of thing.

Dr. Zora: 26:23

So initially in the hospital, you know, he latched and everyone I had I had two different lactation consultants that came in and they're both like you know, they looked at his latch and they're like, oh, he's great, he doesn't have any ties and you're doing so great. So I think that first day, you know he was, I was breastfeeding him and well, it was probably cholesterol, right, so it wasn't much. He was happy. I mean I, you, you know he'd latch on and then go to sleep, you know, as babies do the first couple of days. Yeah.

Dr. Zora: 26:57

So that first day was fine, but then the second day it was like super painful, to the point where, like, I started crying from the pain, um, and I'm like what's going on. And I asked them and I think that's when the second, that's when the second um lactation consultant came in and again she checked him and she's like, yeah, he has no ties. It's like I think you just need to get used to it. But at this point, because he was latching on so often that and you know not to be, you know, too much TMI, but they're bleeding at this point and this is is only day two.

Dr. Zora: 27:34

You know, we tried the I don't even remember what they were now but some kind of gel like pads and whatnot, that To soothe yeah, yeah, to soothe, but nothing was working. It was super painful. I tried to pump. So now, you know, I think the third day we go home and I'm trying and it's just it's. It's like the. It was one of the most painful things I ever had to endure and it was so sad because I really wanted it. So I'm, I'm trying so hard, but at the same time it's like, you know, he's now hungry and gets fussy because he's not able to, you know, get the milk.

Dr. Zora: 28:13

And from my from, I remember, is he would latch on, but then it was painful because he would kind of come off, you know. And so that's why I'm like everyone's telling me he's fine, his latch is good, but why is this happening? And I tried all these different positions. I even, I think, like a week or so later I think it was a week after, yeah, he was a week old I had another lactation consult to come to my house, yeah, and again she checked and she said these has no ties. So long story short everybody's telling me no ties. Pediatricians told me no ties.

Dr. Zora: 28:49

At the point I didn't know and I'm a new mom, I just had surgery, you know it's like so many things happening and come to find out he had a posterior tie the whole time and that's why you know he was coming off. You know he wasn't able to just stay latched on and I tried all these different positions and it just, you know, wasn't happening and unfortunately, I even tried, it was like up to 10 weeks, 10 weeks. I went back to work, yeah, even then I contacted a different lactation consultant and but at that point I had lost all my supply and she said it's really hard to regain it after 10 weeks, right, I tried the pumping for a few days and it just didn't happen. So, yeah, and I had to give up, unfortunately, I really didn't want to. So that really taught me a lot. And that's when I'm like you know, and actually what happened was how I found out he has a tie, is I brought him to my colleague who was seeing a lot of babies with ties, right? She?

Emily: 29:57

knew what to look for.

Dr. Zora: 29:58

Yes, I'm like, can you just take a look? And he was six months at this point, so definitely too late to try to, you know, reestablish anything. As soon as she looks, he's like, yeah, he's got that posterior tie. And she's like, and he has a lip tie, I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah.

Emily: 30:16

So this is personal for for you, because if you can catch this for other families like you, are impacting their lives exactly.

Dr. Zora: 30:21

yes, so much, and it's it's not just for the baby, because breast milk is amazing, right, but it's also for the mom, right, like I wanted to do that so bad, and I just wasn't able to, because everyone is everyone, basically was kind of like, baby's, fine, it's probably you, you know, that's kind of what I got from it and I'm like, well, that's my body, you know, I don't know, you know, like, what do you do at that point? So I, I do wish I knew more, like what to look for at that time. Right, then I would have you know, done something about it. Um, but that's okay, you know, that's my experience, but that's why I want to change that for other moms yeah, so posterior tie means like the back of the tongue is yeah, so it's um, you know when the baby like, let you know when you can get them to lift their mouth.

Dr. Zora: 31:15

A lot of times when they're crying you can really see it Like you don't even have to go in there. A lot of times I just see it when they're crying. The anterior tie, or the one that's really obvious. I mean you can see that line right, right, the posterior, it's really tiny in the back, really tiny in the back. But one telling sign is the tongue. It like when they're crying it's not just straight, there's a little like it's like a curve. Okay, it's like a c. That's what the tongue looks like, because there is a little bit of a tug from the bottom that gives it that shape. So when they're crying the tongue is not just like flat, it has like a little curve. I don't know if that makes sense.

Emily: 31:58

It does, well, I mean I think I would have to see multiple examples of like this is not in, this is which is what you've done. You have the experience. You can visually just diagnose it like that.

Dr. Zora: 32:07

Yeah.

Emily: 32:08

But I'm so I'm just guessing that that impacts the ability to form like a vacuum seal, like, because the tongue is very instrumental in forming like a vacuum seal, for then the milk to like flow into the baby's mouth. So I'm guessing that the tongue just can't make the right shape to form that vacuum seal.

Dr. Zora: 32:24

Yeah, and actually another thing is like now that he's older he can not stick out his tongue all the way, oh.

Emily: 32:32

So now I mean obviously like after the fact, be like yep, Yep, oh, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Zora: 32:37

Like I'm always, you know, watching him obviously, and yeah, I noticed that he does not. I mean, I look at other kids and they're like almost, you know, like their chin or their nose, and his is just not, doesn't go very far. So that was another thing. It's like do I clip it or like laser it? Do I leave it alone? I decided to just leave it alone Because when he was eating solids, you know there was no choking or nothing like that, no real issues. He can lateralize and chew and do all those things, but I know adults that have gotten their tongue tie released as as adults, oh, okay yep, yep, and it can definitely still help with certain things.

Dr. Zora: 33:19

So it's to the back of my mind and I, if I feel like he gets to a point where it does affect something, yeah, then I would do that do you have a local professional that you refer to to have the lasering done?

Dr. Zora: 33:34

So there are a few that I but I actually haven't, you know, met with them yet, and I would really love to do that. But there are a few that are very well known, that are really good with these things. But I just for me to recommend I do love to like meet people like one-on-one to get to know them. But, yeah, there are some very highly recommended too.

Emily: 34:01

Yeah. So I mean, for anyone listening, it's sort of like definitely meet with a lactation consultant to make sure the latch is good and if they or you just have a feeling that something else is going on, chiropractor. Chiropractor can tell you if it's biomechanical, if it's something we can fix with an adjustment, or chiropractor can say I trust this, I mean, is a pediatric dentist that would do the laser for the Not necessarily.

Dr. Zora: 34:30

Not necessarily you can do pediatric dentists, sometimes just a general dentist, okay, they've done that. Sometimes ENTs as well do it, okay, yep.

Emily: 34:41

Good to know. Yeah, that's that's sort of the progression of professionals, and so that's why it's so important to me to build this network. I just know so many people and it does seem like you have to extra advocate for yourself, like you have to say multiple times something's still not right. Can you check for a tie? Yeah, and they say everything's fine. Then you go to the next professional and you say, can you check for a tie? But it really feels like an uphill battle. I've talked to so many moms about this issue and or when they're in the hospital, the professionals there are basically instructed to just not ever say the word tie. I don't know what the policy is, but it's like it's so hard to get someone to admit that maybe this is an issue. So, yeah, I just want people to be aware that this could be something that comes up and there are professionals that can help you.

Dr. Zora: 35:30

Yeah Well, I didn't know that about the hospital and not wanting to talk about ties.

Emily: 35:34

This is anecdotal, but that I've just heard it so many times. Okay, no one's willing to say it, so yeah, I mean that's not very helpful. So, yeah, I mean that's not very helpful. And I mean, when you're the mom like this is affecting you daily, hourly. This is your life. You are just trying to get milk from you into this baby's mouth and when it hurts and when it feels like it's never going to get any better, it is the most defeating feeling.

Dr. Zora: 36:01

It really is. It really really is, yeah, yeah. Just for me personally it was. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do and and I'm the kind of person who I do work hard at things right that I really want and usually I accomplish, but this one I worked so hard and I couldn't accomplish, so it was defeating Cause there was only so much you yourself could do.

Emily: 36:27

There were other variables at play that you could not.

Dr. Zora: 36:29

Yeah, and when you just had a baby, I mean you're so vulnerable and you know. And then you do want to trust other professionals, right. And when everyone is telling you, oh, everything is good, but you're like, but something isn't right, and then you just sometimes don't trust yourself, right, and I think you know you can't blame yourself either for that, because you're like, well, you're the professional you've seen this like for me, I've never had a baby, I never had to breastfeed before. This is all brand new to me. You, this is all you do, right, or you know you work with, so I trusted them. But that's why I really think like one of the reasons why every baby should be checked by a pediatric chiropractor early on is really prevention to prevent these things and to have, you know, the best possible outcomes when it comes to breastfeeding, to when it becomes, when it comes to development, even reaching milestones, you know, for the moms to have a better postpartum also, you know, physically and emotionally, mentally.

Emily: 37:42

Yep, and then so adjusting, like in the situation where the baby's head is always tilted to one side when they're sitting in the car seat, when you do take care of that early on, is that something that prevents them having to wear a helmet later on? Is that?

Dr. Zora: 37:55

yes, yes, yes, exactly yeah. And I'm sure you've seen, helmets are oh like.

Emily: 38:02

They're just so common now yeah right, I definitely saw a change, like my oldest is 12. And even from when he was a baby until now, it's just seems like it's become more prevalent.

Dr. Zora: 38:11

Yeah, yeah, because those things are going unnoticed and once they are noticed, it's too late, you know. Or again, parents don't know that there's other options besides a helmet.

Dr. Zora: 38:26

You know they think, oh well, now he just you know he or she will need a helmet, but it's like, well, have you checked with a chiropractor who deals with these things? Usually it's a no, because they don't even know Like how, how would that? So that's what I just really want to bring awareness to, and it's so gentle, it's so. It works amazing. I have personally had a patient who I've known for years and she got pregnant. She brought her and her baby because she start. Actually, she brought her in because I'll never forget her.

Emily: 39:07

She comes in the baby's in the car seat like this like completely so for people just listening, you turned your face like 90 degrees to the side, like 90 degrees, like completely.

Dr. Zora: 39:20

Yeah, sorry, I forgot, this is also audio.

Dr. Zora: 39:23

Completely like 90 degrees to looking to one side, and that's the baby's normal every day, right, and I don't remember I think she might have been four weeks old at that time, and you know. So the first thing I did was release her neck so that she can turn both ways. It took a few visits. She hated it in the beginning because it hurt. That's why she couldn't turn the other way. Yep, it was so stuck. So imagine this is very common and that's why I'm going to talk about it. But as adults, you know, sometimes you're like you know sleep and you wake up and you're like I don't know what happened, you know, but I just woke up and now my neck, I can't move it to the other side, that's right, like literally, that's what they feel it hurts and they're stuck that way. So first thing I do is release it.

Dr. Zora: 40:12

But what I noticed with her is that she had already developed that spot four weeks old already had a flat spot and actually flat spot in that side of the head, let's say I think it was the right side and what that does? Because their cranial bones are still very soft and like molding, because they need to be in order to come out of the birthing birth canal right. Um, what happened was almost like someone had pushed from the back and there was a bulge now in the front. So her head was all really really, you know, deformed basically.

Emily: 40:57

Yeah, well, that's interesting because we know, we all know baby's heads are so precious. You don't want to, because they're still molding, they're still fit. Yeah, so the idea of developing the flat spot there sort of affects the rest of it. That makes sense if we think about it Exactly.

Dr. Zora: 41:12

Yeah, because they're all connected. So I worked with her, I did a lot of cranial work and she, every time she would go to the you know or she would have a an appointment with a pediatrician. The pediatrician was talking about a helmet. So I'm like you know what, let's do this come regularly, I'm gonna see her and my objective is to be to, like, not have her wear a helmet.

Emily: 41:44

So we're gonna do this.

Dr. Zora: 41:45

And so I did, you know, treated that um corrected as much as I can, and every day I would also give them things to do at home also. So, again, you don't just, you know, want to um depend completely on the chiropractor or whatever provider. You need to do things on your own, because I can't see her every single day, right, you know, if this was my kid, I would do these things every single day, but I'm, you know, I think I saw her twice a week and so I gave them exercises to do with her and put her on her tummy. So putting on the tummy is that's why it's so important, because then their head has a chance to reshape too. But but that's where you know, you can't just not do anything about it and hope for the head to reshape and tummy time Like this is me doing the work, and then they put her on her tummy as much as possible when she's awake, ok.

Dr. Zora: 42:41

So with this specific case, she ended up not needing a helmet and she was four months old. So it took about two to three months of working on her regularly and them doing all the things that I had them do. Everything was like, I mean, it was amazing. I just remember she came in one day and it was just kind of like night and day and I'm like I don't know if I just wasn't paying attention as much or it just felt like you know it, just everything was more symmetrical. It was kind of amazing and I told her I don't think she needs a helmet anymore. But when she went to the pediatrician for that evaluation they said yeah, she doesn't need it.

Emily: 43:24

So that's really valid.

Dr. Zora: 43:26

Yeah, it was amazing. Oh, that's great, that's a really helpful case study.

Emily: 43:30

I think people can wrap their head around. You know, if the pediatrician says, when you have this tiny baby, I think they're going to need a helmet eventually, okay, we take in this information and there could be another option, and that's where you would come in.

Dr. Zora: 43:44

Exactly, exactly, yeah, yeah, like just a lot. I feel like in the medical field there's a lot of let's wait and see, right, but I I don't agree with that. I think, if you hear that, do some research. What else can be done instead of just waiting and seeing you know, because if that family had waited, she would have needed the helmet. A hundred percent Right.

Emily: 44:11

It's almost like self-fulfilling. Yeah yeah, this just occurred to me. I'm curious if you have any experience with an umbilical hernia in a baby, is there anything chiropractic care could do for that? So I had that with two kids. The one resolved on its own within a year and the other one did have to have surgery when he was like four, because the wait and see nothing changed. So they had to surgery.

Dr. Zora: 44:33

Yeah, you know I don't have like experience with that. I've had, I've heard the same thing. Usually you kind of wait and see. Same thing, Usually you kind of wait and see. But now I'm just thinking about it and I feel like with any hurt like the hernias, if you can develop the core muscles, that can help to close it. That's what I'm just thinking now. So how old was your first? Who it?

Emily: 45:05

did resolve, do you remember? I want to say within his first year, within the first year, yeah. So then, when the second one had the same thing, I thought, oh, it'll resolve in the first year too. And then, before he started preschool or kindergarten, they were like we should just take care of it now okay, yeah, you know that's interesting.

Dr. Zora: 45:23

I'm gonna have to look into that. Yeah, yeah, look into that one.

Emily: 45:25

I mean I think it probably couldn't have hurt to consult a chiropractor if there was, you know, recommendations. But yeah, but that when you said wait and see, I was like, oh, I remember waiting and seeing and nothing, yeah yeah, that's, I will look into that.

Dr. Zora: 45:37

I definitely will, because it's probably going to be one of those things you know once you like if something comes up and you talk about it, I'll probably end up seeing I'll probably have a baby.

Emily: 45:46

That will come in. Yeah, next Tuesday your client is going to have this issue, and now you did the research and you're ready to go. Yes, that is fantastic. Well, is there anything we didn't touch on yet that you were hoping to share in today's episode?

Dr. Zora: 46:02

I think we covered a lot.

Dr. Zora: 46:03

I think we covered a lot. I just hope that it was informative For any. You know, parents, even other providers, are not sure about what pediatric chiropractic is or even prenatal, perinatal chiropractic is. It's all super gentle, there's nothing to be afraid of, I think. Sometimes, you know, if you watch one of those TikTok videos of like the loud pops and you know people slamming on you and it doesn't have to be like that. I've always been known that way and I think that's why it really worked well for me to, you know, work with pregnant women and babies and kids, because I do have a more gentle touch, so it doesn't have to be scary. There are so many different techniques. If someone, even an adult, if they don't like you know the neck adjustments that have the popping sound, there's other things that can be done.

Dr. Zora: 47:03

I also do a lot of muscle work. I integrate a lot of muscle work actually, because I believe it's not just a joint that needs work.

Dr. Zora: 47:12

A lot of times it's muscles as well, and that's a lot of it with babies. It's a lot of it is muscles, some ligaments, cranial bones. So yeah, I just want to get across that. You know, working on babies, working on kids and adults, it's all different and that's why you need someone who has experience in all of those populations, you know, to be more at ease with the work that we do.

Emily: 47:40

Yeah and right. You can only speak to how you practice and your experience, and so if someone meets with you, you might be a great fit for them. But I think we can give people permission to try a different chiropractor if you weren't happy with your experience. A different person may have a different approach, something more gentle, a different type of training. Like you have the Webster technique training that someone else might not have. So you just because I think it's possible that someone has had a bad experience or they heard someone had a bad experience and it turns them off from the entire profession. So in today's episode we got to know you. Clearly, you are compassionate and passionate and, like you, take great care of the moms and the babies, so I am happy to refer people to you If someone wants to learn more about you. What is a good way to connect with you? Like your website, your Instagram handle.

Dr. Zora: 48:30

Yeah, so right now I'm mostly on Instagram. I love making videos. A lot of them are videos of like tips and tricks, especially for mamas. I'll be making some for babies as well, like the things we talked about, like what to look for. Is your baby always turning their head to one side when they're in a car seat, for example? So that's a great way for them to also get to know me on there. See some of the work that I do and and also, if they'd like, I do offer complimentary consultations, and if they want to go ahead and book the appointment, they can just do it through my link in there.

Emily: 49:11

That's great. So we'll include all the links in the show notes so people can directly click to your website to book with you. We should say you are in Southeast Michigan. You're in your office in Birmingham yes, I'm in Birmingham right now, but you're also thinking about doing in-home visits. That's a goal of yours, so yes, actually I am.

Dr. Zora: 49:27

I already started offering it to my existing prenatal patients. Okay, yeah, and they're all very happy about that.

Emily: 49:36

You mean, I don't have to leave the house with my newborn, I don't have to like get dressed.

Dr. Zora: 49:40

Yes, yes, and especially if they have other kids. You don't have to find a babysitter, you know, or get all the kids ready and bring them there. I mean, if they do want to, I'm more than happy to have them come over, of course, to the office. But yeah, it's something I've always wanted to do, ever since I went through it myself. I know I didn't want to get out of the house at all, so yeah, that's great.

Emily: 50:06

Well, thank you so much for coming on Spilling the Milk, and it's been lovely to get to know you, and I can't wait to refer moms to you.

Dr. Zora: 50:10

Thank you so much, and same here Thanks, take care.

Emily: 50:15

Here are some of my takeaways from our conversation with Dr Zora today.

Emily: 50:20

I heard that chiropractic care for moms who are pregnant can be really beneficial to relieve common aches and pains or we consider them common, we consider them a normal part of pregnancy, but maybe they don't have to be. And not only that, but you are preparing the pelvis and the body for a smoother labor and delivery potentially. She mentioned she also sort of assigns prenatal yoga in conjunction with the chiropractic care, so further supporting the idea that prenatal yoga is really helpful for preparing the body and the mind for labor and delivery. We heard that having your newborn checked for their alignment, for their jaw, for possible ties by a pediatric chiropractor like Dr Zora is can be really beneficial in just ruling out variables if you are having trouble with latching or if you notice baby is favoring only looking to one side or their head is most often in just the same position. It was really interesting and it makes me think that it might be nice while you're pregnant just to become familiar with who in your area can provide that type of evaluation. I really enjoyed the conversation. I will link her information in our show notes and if you have questions for her. You can reach out directly. I'd also love to hear from you If you are interested in being a guest on Spilling the Milk. Please reach out emily at empoweredbumpsandboobscom and we will get you scheduled.

Emily: 52:01

I also want to make sure you know that we have our breastfeeding bootcamp membership live. It's $29 a month. Your first seven days are a free trial to check it out, but I'm in love with it. Obviously, I created it. I have over 100 on-demand lessons that teach you everything you need to know about latching, about milk supply, about pumping, about nutrition when you're the nursing mom, about how your partner can support you, about your posture, about your mental health while you're breastfeeding so really a holistic look at how to be successful as a breastfeeding mom.

Emily: 52:41

We have our online community where you can ask questions and get answers from me, as well as connect with other moms who are going through breastfeeding, have been through breastfeeding, and we hold weekly live calls so you can ask me face to face through the computer, any questions you have, or if you want to talk to the other moms that are on the call. We have everything you need to feel supported without really having to leave home. If you don't want to or just can't right now. This is all accessible from your phone and I'd love to have you join us Again. Head to wwwempoweredbumpsandboobscom and check out the Breastfeeding Bootcamp membership and boobscom and check out the breastfeeding bootcamp membership. It also makes a fantastic baby shower gift. I can print you up a gift certificate and you can be the star of the baby shower as you present a gift that people didn't even know was an option this online on demand course and community to prepare the new mom for her breastfeeding journey. What a lovely gift. Thank you for listening and take care.