The Style & Vibes Podcast
The Style & Vibes Podcast
Breaking Barriers for women in Dancehall and Hip-Hop (Throwback Episode)
We'll also take a deep dive into the generational divide within the music industry, focusing on the unique pressures faced by female artists. From the fan-driven rivalries seen between the likes of Nicki Minaj and Cardi B to the enduring respect male artists like Jay-Z command over the years, we unpack how these dynamics play out differently for women. Shawn offers insights from the world of dancehall, drawing parallels to how artists like Spice and Shenseea navigate the competitive landscape. We reflect on the challenges posed by generational shifts and their influence on fan loyalty and musical relevance.
In our final segment, we tackle the broader challenges women face in male-dominated genres such as dancehall and hip-hop. Kerry-Ann provides an eye-opening perspective on how female artists often find their creative growth stunted by industry limitations, unlike their male counterparts who enjoy greater freedom. We stress the importance of embracing diversity and resolving conflicts privately to foster a culture that celebrates, rather than pits, female talent against one another.
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Who runs the world? Girls, of course. Welcome to the Style and Vibes podcast with me, makayla. I'll be giving you the inside scoop on music, fashion, culture and more from Caribbean celebrities and tastemakers across the globe pushing our culture with authenticity and, of course, style and vibes. Hello everyone, and welcome to the Style and Vibes podcast, episode 12.
Speaker 1:This is your host, makayla, and today we are diving into the idea that, when it comes to music, there seems to be the notion that only one woman can be on top. Does it feel that way for you guys? Is it just me? I feel like we kind of see this all the time, me. I feel like we kind of see this all the time. We see, you know, memes and even, you know, have conversations with our friends around the idea of Rihanna versus Beyonce, nicki Minaj versus Cardi B, spice versus Shansia, and it goes on and on across multiple industries. I mean not even respective to just music, but across multiple industries as well. I think you know there are so many talented women who make music, yet we find ourselves kind of fussing over maybe one, two or maybe just a handful. The notion that only one woman can run things is crazy to me, because there are so many different talented women across all different genres and men can kind of compete without being pitted against one another, unless it's like a direct, you know, lyrical beef or they have personal feuds. But I kind of feel like when it comes to women we have to pick a side for whatever reason. So you know, there's the idea of you know having friendly competition misunderstandings and of course, there's the idea of you know having friendly competition misunderstandings and, of course, relationships that just go wrong. That kind of creates this competition and somewhat makes it personal. You know, the fans kind of see it via social media or they read about it in magazines as well, as you know see the artist's behavior, how the media kind of plays into it. The music industry really has, you know, people behind the scenes that kind of have these conversations behind closed doors and just circumstances and popularity. All of these things really play a role in the idea of what happens when women become popular in the music game. So it's not just me today In this episode.
Speaker 1:I really wanted to get a feel for some other people's opinions. I think it's really important to get the opinions of others when trying to talk about a topic like this one. And while it's not a roundtable, I'm speaking with our executive producer, carrie, who definitely has an opinion, even even from a fan perspective and just being able to kind of understand the music business as well as you know her place as a fan kind of shares her opinion with us as well as Sean of Reggae Talk Podcast, kind of giving that male perspective. And you know we're all kind of dissecting why we feel that you know there can only be or is it that we're kind of thinking into it too much? So we're really dissecting the idea and sharing our opinions with you guys.
Speaker 1:Before we get into my conversations with Carrie and Sean, I just really wanted to kind of share, even from from a media perspective, working and being in journalism and podcasting, and just being able to share the opinions of the masses I think the media kind of struggles with. Are we sharing what the people want to hear? Are we asking the questions that the people want to hear or are we merely reflecting what the people are really talking about? So it's kind of like that chicken and the egg conversation, but I think it does have we have a certain level of due diligence to kind of evaluate. Is this a conversation that you want to continue having? Are we jumping on the bandwagon for hits on our websites? On the bandwagon for hits on our websites, are we really, you know, developing engaging conversations when it comes to women in music and even in other genres?
Speaker 1:And I think it's kind of something that we as media personnel kind of have to think about when we're writing pieces and even just you know, it might even just start off as a joke, but I think things we've seen things escalate rather quickly and I always say, you know, a lot of times issues can be resolved offline and you know, if a conversation is had between two people, then they can kind of, you know, resolve whatever personal issues that they have. Now, if it's completely all about the music and you're leaving it on wax, then that's different. But when it comes to, like you know, deep rooted personal issues, I think those should be addressed without the public's eye and ears. But a lot of, I think, a lot of times what happens is it kind of just spirals out of control, especially with social media. You know, social media has allowed for artists as well as fans to share their own public opinions on themselves, on each other, on what's happening in the news, and I think it opens up the door to kind of more scrutiny than ever before.
Speaker 1:So, while I think competition is healthy to kind of, you know, it sharpens, you know, the skills of others. When you compete in a way that is not mean spirited, I think we kind of understand the sentiment behind. You know, when people are kind of going at each other and it's personal and going at each other and it's just lyrical, and sometimes the lines definitely get blurred and sometimes it ends up, you know, resolving itself. And I don't think that we should try to do away with competition. I think it's great for women to just be able to compete, but it's also, like you know, there's more than just one or two who should be highlighted, and not necessarily that you need the competition in order to be highlighted. I think doing great work outside of the antics should speak for itself, and unfortunately that's not always the case. So the people that you see constantly are the people who are kind of stirring the pot a little bit, and sometimes it's a good thing stirring the pot a little bit, and sometimes it's a good thing, and sometimes it's just not as beneficial to the culture or to each other.
Speaker 1:It just kind of seems like it's out of place in a way, but I think that there is such a plethora of talent across multiple genres. You know you can have so many different people contributing and playing in the same field and being successful in their own right. Everyone is a queen, everyone is a king of their own kingdom and in their own lane. So I don't think that it should be such a big deal for us to recognize just one or two or a few, because I hear men who completely sound the same over and over. So you know I can't tell the difference between a few people that I hear that are men, but you know they seem to continuously get the shine over you know women as well.
Speaker 1:For every you know 20 men that you hear in the music industry, you might hear one or two women. So I think it's also up to us to kind of really be better at highlighting those women who are doing great things in music and in their respective genres in order to kind of push, you know, a bigger plethora of women to the top. Plethora of women to the top. And then what happens when there are more women and it's a little bit more equally yoked, I guess you could say in terms of talent pool. Then you'll kind of start to see all of the different bodies of work and you know people will be talking about more than just one or two. So today we have a very special guest. He is on another podcast called Reggae Talk and it's him going in depth about all these different topics, with reggae and dancehall specifically. Welcome to the Stylin' Vibes family, sean.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm on. I'm on Give thanks. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:So this is going to be an interesting conversation because I know you have a lot to say. You always have something to say and it's all good things. So, you know, I think you kind of being in the music industry and understanding, as not only you know someone who does media, but also someone who just is a fan of music in general and not just dance along with reggae I think it's a great conversation for us to have, especially with recent events that have been happening surrounding women in music, and it's not particular to just dance along with reggae, but it's definitely very prevalent but just the idea that there can only be one woman you know, no pun intended on top. So the idea that you know it seems like, especially like surrounding Nicki Minaj and Cardi B, like you know, it always feels like you have to pick and choose. So what is kind of your perspective in terms of why you think that is from a music industry standpoint?
Speaker 2:I mean I think there's there's. Everyone has their own lane. You know what I mean. Everybody has their own lane and there's food for everybody, especially with hip hop. Hip hop is a massive, massive market. There's food for everybody.
Speaker 2:But I think this whole one woman stuff is it's's not really, it's not really the artist per se, but the fans. I think it's the fans who are who really egg this thing on. You know, you get what I'm saying. But uh, I mean the artist, for example, nick nicky minaj. Nicky minaj, I mean, she's been around for a long time.
Speaker 2:It's like in the workplace when you have, when you have a senior employee who's been you. It's like in the workplace when you have a senior employee who's been on the job for X amount of years and they have X amount of time invested, and then you have the young buck fresh out of college. They get a little insecure. You get what I'm saying. The fans remember over time the generations kind of turn over. The fans who were rocking with you 10 years ago maybe they're not rocking with you again, and it's really the young bucks. It's really the young bucks. So I always say that music it's all about relevancy and time, especially hip-hop, hip-hop. A lot of it is disposable music, just like dancehall, and the fans change. We did an episode called the generation gap, basically whatever that was, that was uh popping to you years ago, or our parents. It's not popping to me. My tastes are different.
Speaker 1:You get what I'm saying yeah, just like you know the change in another 10, 15 years, same thing.
Speaker 2:I get it yeah man, yeah one. So I think it's a generational gap thing. For example, nicki Minaj is about she's up, she's approaching 35 or she's about 35 years old. So meanwhile Cardi B is 10 years or junior. So there's no way Cardi B fans and Nicki Minaj fans have the same pace and music. It's Cardi B friends many of them are teenagers Nicki Minaj fans they grew same taste in music. If Cardi B fans many of them are teenagers Nicki Minaj fans, they grew up. You get what I'm saying. Again, it boils down to the generation. The generation has turned over. It's a social media era now. Social media is all about the youth, the youth and what Nicki Minaj called her people, the Barbies and what Cardi B called her people.
Speaker 1:Was it Bardi Gang or Cardi Gang? Something like that? Cardi Gang.
Speaker 2:Cardi Gang. I'm pretty sure, cardi Gang, they're not no 35 year olds, cardi Gang. They're a bunch of kids, and kids are mainly the ones who are on the forums. Kids are mainly the ones who are on the forums. Kids are mainly the ones who are on the blog. You get what I'm saying? Yeah, I think very the one amplified this, this whole notion, because if you listen, if you listen to, like, uh, the breakfast club, every second they make references to social media, you know. So that's kind of like the heartbeat, that's kind of like the pulse of the culture and and it's a youth movement.
Speaker 1:So do you think that the artists play into it? I feel like female artists play into it too much and it kind of gets more personal than it does competitive.
Speaker 2:I think they play into it, but I think they feed into the fans more. You know, like, for example, I mean on the dance hall side, them says bias of the queen, right now she's, she's the one that's, you know, the new, new age queen of a dancer. Some people say and I know you have um young book, what shensia, shensia, do our thing right now. I think at one point, at one point they had like a little friction or something like that I think they're friends now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of it has.
Speaker 2:Again it goes back to the social media. You know people feed into it, people you know, comments here, comments there.
Speaker 2:Spies read it. And spies please say yeah, yeah, yeah, like you shake, you throwing shade and things. You get what I'm saying. Then there was a little thing with jada Jada Kingston as the next upcoming artist and Chen Tia said you get what I'm saying? Yeah, I think. Again, I think it has to do with the fans more than anything, man. They instigate the social media, they instigate a lot of things and people feed into it. That's just my take on the whole dynamic.
Speaker 1:But I kind of feel like it doesn't happen as much with men per se, like they do do it and they do go at each other. I mean, if you have Kanye's level of emotional attachment to ego, yes.
Speaker 1:It happens a lot more frequently, but I feel like for women it's almost like you have to fight even harder to get that respect and keep it. And you know, once you are no longer, you know popular, it doesn't necessarily mean that you no longer have it, because I mean, if you think about it, jay-z is no longer popular.
Speaker 2:I agree with you.
Speaker 1:Musically he's no longer popular as he's popular to us, because that's our era and we're always going to have that love and affinity for him, but the Young Bucks aren't. They recognize him more as his business savvy and being you know Beyonce's husband than you know knowing his catalog than you know knowing and understanding his catalog, but he still has managed to keep his respect musically no-transcript.
Speaker 1:You know, as women grow in the space, they tend to want to compete with the younger generation rather than say you know, it's your time, I'm going to do what I'm doing here and I embrace you doing what you're doing over there. You know what I mean. I think Lauren Hill might be one of the few that kind of just like she sees everybody and it's kind of like it's love, it's all. Like I don't, I don't see Eve, you know either. You few that kind of just like she sees everybody and it's kind of like it's love, it's all like I don't. I don't see eve, you know either. You know kind of really playing into that cattiness either. And you know people like you know from dance. You know marianne chagan, like later size, so she's not even associating herself. So it's almost like you know the leadership. So even though, like, the fans kind of of have a say in a sense, I kind of feel like the women have a certain level of responsibility to grow in there Because, remember, you're not Spice, not young Spice, I mean she's young.
Speaker 1:But she was popular you know, years ago, like Faito Vaman wasn't yesterday, like Faito Vaman wasn't yesterday. So you know she has she, you know she does, I think she deserves that, that title of queen, because she she's probably one of the only dance hall artists that are traveling at that level and can, you know, bill and pack and you know have have that sort of stage presence. But you know, song wise, she has a good, a solid catalog and she still hasn't reached her peak. I would say um, or she hasn't reached where she think she would like to go. I think she still has more that she wants to do, but she's not 22 like shancia yeah man, yeah man.
Speaker 2:But I mean, if you're going to say Spice, you say you think Spice is queen and then you say her catalog is solid. I mean a queen catalog can't be solid. You got to be great. You know what I mean. But I mean that's a whole nother conversation with the queen and all that stuff, because I mean I think Spice is the queen at the moment.
Speaker 2:You know, the queen is relative to your generation, you know some people with even some of the young kids still say related saw as the queen, even even though when, ladies, I was at the pinnacle of her career but at the same time ladies really had no competition. I mean she had, she had competition. I mean, yeah, can't name, can't name some, some, some artists from aside from tanya stevens.
Speaker 1:But tanya stevens to me isn't even she's uh on in like a whole king. She have our own kingdom, uh, you know, that means she can queen, uh something else.
Speaker 2:But you see, the thing with lady saw, lady saw, you can lighten her to like a vibe scott till, because lady saw was the queen, the queen of slutness and raunchiness yeah, if your vibe.
Speaker 2:Scott came and and came with the word play and he came with the imagery and alluttness and raunchiness. You feel what I'm saying? Scott came with the wordplay and he came with the imagery and all that stuff and he kind of painted a picture that was different from what we were used to. That was Lady Saw. She said things differently. I mean, when I was a youth, lady Saw, music was banned in the house.
Speaker 1:It was prohibited. You get what I'm saying so.
Speaker 2:She was an icon for that. You know, slackness and all kind of thing. That's kind of what made her into the queen of the dance hall. And then as her career kind of progressed, she kind of widened her catalog and you know, and became much more dynamic, as opposed to a Spice whose catalog is not really as much. As you know, it's not really diversified. You get what I'm saying. So that's why Spice is the queen of the moment, because she has it going on. I'm really happy for her. She'll do her thing. But musically I want to hear more from Spice. I want her to perform at those high-profile elite events in Jamaica and don't get backlash from singing her songs that people know. You get what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true. That's true, I agree with that, that's definitely true. So, in terms of like, and even in our conversation, I kind of feel like we're picking names out of a hat isn't a plethora of artists that you know, we deem talented, you know to, to kind of go toe-to-toe, but that that's not necessarily the case for you.
Speaker 1:That might be, I think, very specific to, to maybe dancehall and and even reggae, but even in other genres, like I feel like there's other dope artists that are really doing you know amazing things that just aren't being recognized because of like they have. They live in their own world and I think social media has allowed you know artists to create their own fan base because, I mean, we don't even discover music the same. We discover you know music through playlists and you know word of mouth and sharing. Like you know, we don't listen to radio to hear new music anymore.
Speaker 1:At least I don't know um I mean, I think it allows me right. So you don't, you know, it's not the same. So I feel like there's even more talent that's out there, but I kind of feel like we see the same ones over and over and over again, do you feel? That that's more of a media kind of thing and we kind of have a due diligence to kind of shine light on others in the space doing great work.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean there are tons of talented artists out there, but I mean you know how it is. I mean I can only speak for myself and I don't depend on DJs and all these radio people to feed music for me. I mean to feed music to me. You know, I go out and I seek music because I love young talent and I love to share young talent. If you go on reggae music forever, I mean you see what I'm about you get what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying, but I think, I think, I mean I think the model kind of shifted the common fan, if you do. I think I did a little uh survey one time and I was asking people how they consume music or how they find, find out about new music and many of them say social media, their timeline. So people are kind of shifting from depending on djs and depending on the radio to give them new music and they're consuming it in different ways, primarily the um, social media so final thought what, what would you like to see more of from women in the music industry?
Speaker 2:I want to see more women embracing each other, more women celebrating each other, more women. So I'm celebrating each other, you know. I mean, for example, nick. I mean I gotta go back to Nicki Minaj, because a lot of people say Nicki Minaj is bitter because Cardi B is a new chick on the get on the block or whatever, whatever, and I just want to see women breaking other women lack of a better word. I want to see Nicki with some, with some upcoming artists under her label you know, it's like oh, bonte, bonte, boss, enough artists.
Speaker 2:You know the dance island thing I want to see. I want to see nikki doing the same. As opposed to everything being all about nikki, I gotta use nikki minaj because you know this is really. You know that's really what everybody's talking about nowadays the whole party beat stuff. So just women celebrating women, and you know oneness I like it.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Please share your instagram website. All of that. The podcast um what you got coming up next.
Speaker 2:All of that good stuff all right, you can follow me on instagram at reggae music forever, just like how you spell it. And you can check out our podcast at reggae talk just like how you spell it. And you can check out our podcast at reggae talk just like how you spell it. And uh, we just released a new episode, episode six. That's our most recent episode and that's titled uh, dancehall versus reggae beef. You know, the dancehall artists versus the reggae artists. Reggae artists feel dancehall artists are singing foolishness and the dancehall artists they're not really too. It's like a little you get what I'm saying, and then the reggae roots fans who don't really check for dancehall artist in Ari too. It's like a little you get what I'm saying, and then the Reggae Roots fans who don't really check for dancehall. So it's something to check out. It's definitely created a little, a little stirred up.
Speaker 1:Stirred up the pot as usual, but I like it. I like it. Thank you so much. We're going to have you back because we got lots more to talk about. So we have a very good friend of the show and executive producer, carrie ann reed brown, but today she's sharing her fan perspective on the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are talking about the idea in music and it's not just specific to car genres, reggae, dancehall but across a lot of genres, the idea of only one woman being at the top. So the topic kind of really spawned out of some of the the chatter around women in the music industry and how, you know, one wants to be queen and you know, if you think about dancehall, you know spice kind of came into. You know her own queendom, as you know, lady saw was kind of exiting. But even before lady saw, you know, there were others before her. You have, you know, patra and you have lady g and you have, you know, like Sister Nancy and all of those people and for whatever reason, I think because there aren't as many women on there at that level, there always seems to be the idea that there can only be one woman at a time. So as a fan who kind of is seeing some of this or experiencing it through music. What are your thoughts around that notion?
Speaker 3:Well, it's interesting that either now we're more, as the saying is, more woke and more aware of it, but it's really been existing for a long time, right, if you think about it, because when you, when you, when you thought of Patra, you weren't, I can't remember. I mean, lady Saul was there, but Patra was kind of delivering something different, and so in that way, I feel like two women can coexist. But if it's a male dominated industry, it's almost like only one, only one woman DJ artist can be at the top, even if you have varying styles, and it's it's, like you know, to the detriment of the other artists. That brings variety, right. So if you are, if you want to make it in dance hall, right, right. So if you are, if you want to make it in dance hall, right. And you, you, you say okay, lady g exit, lady saw comes in, and you know it's typical in dance hall that everybody copy the name, right. So you had capleton, simpleton and all these, bantan, buju, you know, mega bantan, whatever, and lady, you know, lady g still there, but Lady Saw rises to the queen of dancehall that she is, and then you have Spice.
Speaker 3:So what happens? It doesn't allow a lot for the women to be creative and diversify or even grow. And I mean we saw some growth from Lady Saw, where she started out really racha and you know that's kind of the staple or the way you identify Lady Saw, but I'm sure she wanted to to create different songs. So, like you know, like let me love you with my heels on was kind of a different type of song, but it was just like, yeah, I'm a like it, right. So it's almost it's not only a one woman thing, but boxing that one woman or women in a particular category, the way they come out and don't allow them to evolve, right.
Speaker 3:So men are, you see, how you know? Or if they evolve, they evolve out, right. So before Lady Saw went from dance hall to gospel, there was Chevelle Franklin, right, and Chevelle Franklin is popular with Beanie man, dancehall Queen. She was the female voice on that song and then she just transitioned and she started singing gospel. So you look at that, buju was allowed and even Capleton was allowed to go from slap dance all to more conscious dance all. And we I don't see the women getting that same creative liberties to, um, to grow and diversify or experiment. It's almost the minute they get to that point it's almost like all right, they get put on a shelf and it's next for the next slap, and I mean nothing's wrong with it, but it's like hyper-sexualized dance hall um artists as a woman.
Speaker 1:Do you think that the competition, that it kind of breeds a certain level of competition, right, and that's always kind of been you know the bravado of, you know music like dance hall and hip hop and to some extent of music like dancehall and hip-hop and to some extent even pop culture, because everyone wants to be that one on the top but does it breed a certain level of creative competitiveness or does it seem to get catty?
Speaker 3:Um, you know, I've, you know, in doing my own podcast. You know this one guy yeah, you know this one guy said there's no competition, right. And if we go back to Chimamanda, you know she was like competition is not necessarily a bad thing, right. For women, it's conditioned to be a negative thing. For men, it's conditioned to be what you're supposed to do, be a negative thing. For men, it's conditioned to be what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 3:And when you compete in terms of the quality and the style and let's go back and think of cyphers and rap battles and clash right, you are competing to see who is the best lyricist, right? So I think that is good in some way. But I think, inherent in the way women are socialized, it always ends up going towards being a catty way, and then it's stoked by other people who have that mindset that the dislike is not on a professional level. I love basketball, so you could watch on basketball like LeBron and somebody they having words on the court, but like when they, when they off the court, it's just like all right, fine, whatever, some of them really do got beef, but it's like on the court they're very competitive and it's like so you know, that doesn't. A lot of times women aren't afforded that level of competition a lot of times women aren't afforded that level of competition.
Speaker 1:So as a fan, kind of observing some of this and I think we kind of you know, we see the memes, we see you know who's the top five, you know who's this, who's that, and quite often it's somewhat spun by either the fans and or the media. Do you feel like you know the artists kind of get swept up into?
Speaker 3:you know what the people on social media and the media are saying, versus focusing on their craft, or is it kind of it just comes with the territory and as a fan, you kind of enjoy it it it comes with the territory, and even the biggest of superstars to the lowliest of podcasters or you know, just as an everyday person you know I was I don't remember what I was watching the other day and they say ego is dressed up, insecurities right. So, like different people will, in a is a so so, so, so so. So it's just, it just comes part of it and it depends on what you want to hear, or not necessarily what you want to hear, but it really depends on who's around you. And you know some of the things you will take personal because we are humans at the end of the day. And you know there's ego but there's like deep-seated, like emotions. Like yo, I thought we were cool, you know I was trying to build sisterhood.
Speaker 3:So you know some fans like that never really took care for it, it was just a matter of preference. So when it was bounty and beanie, you know I would never say napoleon or bounty tune. You know beanie man, I would never say that. It was just like I liked more beanie songs than I liked bounty songs when it was tupac. But it wasn't like I didn't like one or the other, I liked a particular style, but there were songs of the other that I liked and that is kind of what people should focus on, right, there is the way how I do a podcast or how I do something or I cook my mac and cheese is different from how somebody else do it. It's not necessarily better, it's just different.
Speaker 3:And it's embracing those differences. Because no mega China figure, all business and philosophical, but essentially you know, as artists you're commodities, right, and if it's your commodities, you're like you have a one mega artist come out. What makes one singer different from the other? It's their differences, not their similarities. And you know, from a business perspective, you know you, you have to highlight your differences in order to stand out as opposed to how much you're the same.
Speaker 3:So if we embrace the differences and say, well, you know this, this, this female dancer artists are, this artist is not like this one, then you'd be like, yeah, you know that that's a for them thing and I'm good upon that, me good upon this, you know, type thing. But, um, again, with the fans, they get caught up in whatever the fans want to do and and whatever makes money. You know whoever is behind the scenes, you know shot calling, you know you're kind of at the mercy of that and it's a numbers game and, as much as we don't like it, sometimes you get caught up in the mercy of that and it's a numbers game and, as much as we don't like it, sometimes you get caught up in the number of likes, number of plays and all of them something. There they play a role because you know it directly affect the food we have to eat.
Speaker 1:No, that makes sense. But in terms of like, as you know, as you're listening to, you know new music, or even going back, even the idea of how much women are played, the ratio is completely skewed in certain genres. You know, I'm constantly hearing Cardi B and Nicki Minaj when there are a plethora of other women, whereas you can hear a TI, a Kendrick Lamar, a designer you know what I mean like they're all different in their own right but they kind of live within the same space of the same genre. But it's almost like, okay, we have 20 songs that we have to. You know, we want to fill up this program in with 25. Only two or three belong to to women, and it's not necessarily gauged based on pop, certain levels of popularity, but um, also like who who's actually? You know, I kind of feel like there's something somewhat coerced around the rivalry within women of course it is.
Speaker 3:There's a level where it's kind of orchestrated and you know, then there's also, before it's even orchestrated, you, you fall victim to this heavy rotation and you, you know radios need to make money, all of these things. So you play what's popular. And, if you know, I do myself like a variety of music, like if me here, if I keep hearing the same song, but as I switched radio stations or and for the most part that's part of the reason why I hardly listen to like radio, I want to be able to select my own songs and certain songs like I can connect to on my own. But you're right, you know heavy rotation, you're subjected to that. Like when I was introduced to that, when I first came here, I was like what is that? And no, it's everywhere. Right, you don't get a variety. You just kind of play this one song on repeat, on repeat, until you're kind of tired, like I've had it so much that I just never want to hear the song anymore.
Speaker 3:And oftentimes it is who, at whichever label or whatever, is pushing it, you know. So there there are so many hands in the pot driving that and in a way you know we are getting force fed what they feel like we should get, as opposed to you know what we feel like yo, I want good song. This me like it right. And and this is not new, because when you go back and think to the days I made it of cassette, yes, we used to get cassette um and cd right.
Speaker 3:You, you had a whole cd with what 12, 15, 20 song and of on some of those CDs, with the exception of some artists where a lot of their songs were played on radio and hit the charts, you probably heard three of the songs on an album on radio. The rest of it you just had to know on your own and it was just like yo, I love that song. And sometimes people are like which album was that? Because it's not played, so it's it's. The question then comes like, as artists, how else can you introduce your art, your audience, to music that radio may not play in heavy rotation, but as an artist you will gravitate towards a certain song so like the bigger problem is the, the industry, and when, and I think part of it is realizing that, okay, the industry is what feeds me.
Speaker 3:But I also have to be mindful not to get caught up in that cycle of how the industry can pit me against someone else when you know sometimes it's collaboration. But even then, right, let's go back to rap. So you had Salt-N-Pepa, you had MC, like you had a whole bunch of them around the same time. So kind of felt like you know, at some point there was variety. Granted me can't quote me a quote upon one and compared to the man, but still there were. There was a variety, because they were, their rap was a different style or their topic was a different style, their dress was just different. There was just a clear difference with MC like Queen Latifah, salt-n-pepa, um, moni Love, or you know Yo-Yo. You know there was just different styles.
Speaker 3:And it's kind of the same thing with dancehall. When you look at, you know everybody was what's her name? Again, our name is like at the tip of my tongue, everybody's like she's a you know she's underrated um, tanya stevens, but she, she just kind of had a different style. Um, and it's embracing those differences. That kind of help the music and the genre. Because if you feel like if you're only pushing out one type of dancehall or one kind of reggae music or however we want categorize it, then people are going to be like that's not for me, whereas you know you have. You look at the women in reggae music and its sub-genres all together.
Speaker 1:You're like we need the diversity from the women, we need women's perspectives do you feel like you kind of touched on the early, well, the late 80s, early 90s in hip-hop where you had, like Queen Latifah, mc Lyte, salt-n-pepa, like I felt like there was a certain sense of camaraderie amongst among them and they, whereas you know you fast forward to, you know a little Kim Foxy Brown, they immediately became rivals, like very shortly after you know, both of their careers launched. So you know, even Eve was kind of in her own lane and you know, lady of, like everyone kind of felt separate. So they had, you know, the big labels of the time. They had one woman at as representing as their first lady of that particular label which somewhat, I think, kind of contributed to to the notion that there can only be one, because it's not like there was a roster of women under one belt who all kind of collectively brought something to the table. And it was the same with, like you know, with jay ruckers and you know olivia was signed before alicia keys and they did nothing with olivia and you know alicia keys became the cornerstone artist for the label.
Speaker 1:Like it, it happens in, you know r&b, it happens all over. So what, what is it? What do you think it is? You know that either the, the, the level of intent.
Speaker 3:Like you, can't put all your eggs in one basket, but I'm gonna have an answer I know the question you didn't ask, but I'm gonna have an answer I can't understand why I don't understand the thought process where I could focus only on one woman artist at a time and focus on busing her, whereas they have a whole roster of men and them are released differently. You know, literally the approach that we're saying can apply to women. You know they are doing it with men and they were like we can only groom one woman at a time, and I'm curious, right. So even though Style and Vibes Caribbean, I mean, I'm curious, I get it. The Supremes were like at the time, if you go back to Motown, the Supremes were like you know the bigger group, but they had a ton of other groups on the label. They just did different things and so it's almost like I don't know, as we I may not understand why it just because here's the thing, as I get older, I don't fall out of love with reggae. It's just that I I can't jump up and down in a dance the way I did when I was younger and I need to have the artist to meet me at the maturity that I am and that doesn't exist because it's almost like they don't allow that to happen and that's kind of weird.
Speaker 3:As business people within the industry, you got to say well, you got to touch everybody, which is why all these reggae will never die. Because guess what happened Me? Reached starting age. Mega drawback for the tunes I'm appearing to listen to, because, which is why all these reggae will never die. Because guess what happened me? Reach certain age. Mega drawback for the tunes I'm appearance listen to because I feel like that's what resonates with me, because they're they're not keeping or playing the music that me feel like. All right, I'm a woman of a certain age. When I walk out, you know, when I meet you, a true yeah and that's how I'm gonna say so.
Speaker 3:It's almost like where's that music for the others. You know, man, I'll meet you at a true yeah, and I saw me and say so it's almost like where's that music for the others. You know that other. You know when you're, you know the mature level, you know. You see R and B has it. You know when you're boo who cry, you break. You know, and they have. You know. Everything that's happening is to the detriment of the woman as an artist and as a creative being and a person that has emotions of every spectrum. Um, but men have no, men have no reason as to why they just groom one artist at a time, and we've seen the story over again with Whitney, with Mariah Carey. They've moved somebody else out the way to make space for them specifically and I can't tell why. I mean, I'm sure I've watched many documentaries. That kind of gives an explanation, but those reasonings don't make sense to me. I hear what the reason they're saying it just logically doesn't make sense to me as to why.
Speaker 1:Last thought what would you like to see in terms of progression for women in the music industry, as far as what it would look like in the future or feel like? What are you looking for?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just kind of embrace the different styles. I mean just embrace the subtlety of you know, like just how you're different, as opposed to you being the same and owning that difference and knowing that you know. Again, it depends on their personal goals and I can't tell them what their personal goals are right. But if it's making music and making money, sometimes it's not going to be a stadium sellout but that music does connect with somebody and it's just kind of finding who that artist is. And I mean I've heard the story over and over again where the women are making the music what the record label put out. Or the record label will say, oh, this is what's popular, that's, and they're just like that's not me. Will say, oh, this is what's popular, make that, and they're just like that's, that's not me. So it's it's kind of figuring out how to, to to make that music that appeals to your audience because the the record label can't like it. But if your audience don't like it, guess what money not gonna make because you're not gonna listen to it. So just, um, I think it's audience in mind. Trust me, audience in mind is kind of where it's at, because when you, when you connect with your audience. I'm gonna play your music, even if you don't play a part of it, and I'm gonna play the music. How many like cree summer? And we know what they thought about her. Again, that's our cree summer, from a different world.
Speaker 3:She, she had an album. It wasn't a commercial success but I love that album. It was just like she had some nice songs on there. She had a song on there with Lenny Kravitz. I was like yes, but it wasn't. I never heard it on radio. I buck up. I buck up and listen, like it Me hear some real things because of that. So it's because when the fame gone and you get to a certain age, you have to say where you gonna look back upon the body of work you have are. You know the fame you had at a point and people said, boy, she could have. I really liked her. She did sound good, but me does wish she did sing some. You know better songs, deeper songs, but then all of that is still relative. So I just have to say just make good music and focus on the audience, because that's what dictates longevity If your music can surpass the time that you made it for Very true.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing your fan opinion with me today. Carrie Ann Reed Brown, thank you for having me. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. I know this was a hard topic to kind of talk about and I know that there's so much that we haven't even talked about. So I really want to get your opinions. Please share with your friends, share this podcast with your fellow girlfriends and definitely comment, share your opinion, share your thought. We should definitely have a round two.
Speaker 1:If you have any thoughts around this topic and you want to kind of keep the conversation going, I'm more than happy to do another podcast to kind of follow up on it. Until next time, thank you guys, so much for listening and make sure you guys leave me a review, if you can, in iTunes, so that you know we can continue for rank the ting. Until next time, leave it to me. Peeps. Thanks for listening to the latest episode of the Style and Vibes podcast. If you like what you hear and I know you do share it with your friends and family podcast. If you like what you hear and I know you do share it with your friends and family if you want more, make sure you visit stylingvibescom and follow us on our social channels, twitter and instagram, at styling vibes. Until next time, lea tummy peeps.
