Dorm Room Philosophy with "John Dies at the End": Episode #77

"John Dies at the End," is a film that dances on the edge of genres and reality. Join us as we unpack its complexities, its comparison to David Wong's literary wit, and our enduring bromance that's withstood the test of time and questionable facial hair.

Navigating the labyrinth of book-to-film translations can be as perplexing as the existence of Paul Giamatti's character in "John Dies at the End." With a critical eye, we dissect the adaptation's successes and stumbles, sharing our genuine admiration for Wong's original work and the hilarity of unexpected fame. Amid this, we  reflect on the influence of media at formative ages and revel in the delight of serialized stories that captivated our younger selves. It's a conversation that spans the humorous to the introspective.

To cap off our eclectic journey, we ponder the existential "what-ifs" of "John Dies at the End," tackling the film's interpretation of disability, its polarizing humor, and the satirical reflection of our own world. It's a wild ride that leaves us questioning our life choices and the concept of free will, especially if that "soy sauce" had seeped into our paths. So, if you're ready to indulge in a podcast that offers a cocktail of thought-provoking discussions, hearty laughs, and a candid recommendation for the narratively adventurous, then you're in the right place. Pull up a chair, grab your preferred indulgence, and let's celebrate the things about ourselves that we refuse to let die.

Transcript

James Crosslin: 0:15

I'm good to go.

Ryan Baron North: 0:17

All right, Well, let's do this. Everybody welcome to the High and Dry Podcast, the only podcast keeping alive the fandom of Firefly that one season there.

James Crosslin: 0:30

I think that that was an incredibly popular cult show.

Ryan Baron North: 0:34

I don't know you still think it's a lot Fine. How about the Zune? Keeping alive the fandom of the Zune?

James Crosslin: 0:40

A lot of people loved the Zune. It was like open. It was like an open media thing. It wasn't as restrictive on how you download it. It wasn't tied to like Apple music kind of UI and stuff, Keeping Alive the fandom of freaks and geeks.

Ryan Baron North: 1:04

Judd Apatow has been wildly popular for two decades. I don't know, sure, all right, cool, all right. So welcome to this podcast. I'm your host, ryan baron north, with me, as always, james crossland. James, what's going on, not?

James Crosslin: 1:16

much. Just just finished watching our movie. Today. I'm feeling all right. I am excited to smoke some weed yeah, me too well not the, not the weed, yeah.

Ryan Baron North: 1:33

So, uh, for those of you, uh, joining us for the first time, um, we're a pop culture philosophy podcast. We're going to take today the movie John Dies at the End there's a kind of dead fandom and we're going to break it down into three parts. All right, we're going to start delving into our thoughts. We're going to go into some drunken thoughts and then we're going to do some what ifs, and what makes it so fun and special is that we're going to be doing it drunk and high. So, uh, james, what are you? What are you smoking this week?

James Crosslin: 2:05

Oh, I've got some Acapulco gold again. It's my go-to nowadays. Uh yeah, it's, it's. It gives you a good head rush and a lot of energy.

Ryan Baron North: 2:22

I haven't smoked this morning, so, okay, all right, I'm low energy right now, but I'll get up there. Nice, all right. And uh, I'll be joining you with my go-to um, the old forester. But I'm doing it. I'm not doing the uh, I'm not doing the prohibition style, I'm just doing the standard old forester flagship. This cost me 25 at a grocery store.

Ryan Baron North: 2:41

Um, got it in my little decanter right there nice yeah, and it's a uh, it's 100 horsepower, yeah, 100 horsepower. So it's not the 115 that we've been getting used to on this show. Good, good, yeah, so so it should be a more, even, I guess, keeled episode. So this first one, this one, goes out to I don't know, I guess, absurdism.

James Crosslin: 3:12

Sure.

Ryan Baron North: 3:13

Yeah, so here's to the film. Here's to the absurdism Cheers, cheers. Here's to the film. Here's to the absurdism, cheers, cheers. I just saw that picture of myself in the corner there. I forgot to shave this morning. It's all coming in. Yeah, me too. You miss one day and it's just forget about it. Yeah, now I got this rugged thing going on.

James Crosslin: 3:45

That was good. I noticed with my beard hair that I'm getting gray hairs. They're actually like shock white Me too it's right along the sides there.

Ryan Baron North: 3:58

What the fuck? I don't even have a wrinkle, but all of a sudden all these fucking whites are coming in everywhere.

James Crosslin: 4:06

Yeah, fuck the whites.

Ryan Baron North: 4:08

Fucking whites moving in and just ruining everything, gentrifying your face, just gentrifying my face. So this next one, it's going to go out to our newest listeners, these ones, I mean, there's no way we haven't yeah, I don't think we've hit them.

James Crosslin: 4:34

That's on my end.

Ryan Baron North: 4:37

Whoop, whoop Well our newest listeners come from Sparta Illinois.

James Crosslin: 4:44

Sparta Illinois All right, I'm not familiar. I'm not familiar either. You know we lived in Illinois or close to Illinois for a big portion of our lives. I have no idea where Sparta, Illinois is.

Ryan Baron North: 4:57

Well, here's to them, cheers ideal or sparta, illinois. Well, here's to them cheers.

James Crosslin: 5:02

They keep their whereabouts protected by a cohort of mighty greek warriors.

Ryan Baron North: 5:12

Oh, man, I wasn't able to keep a straight face on that second. Go right there. So it's uh, it's weird, it's not as uh, I don't know it doesn't feel like as smooth as the 115. Yeah, it's odd, I I don't know. Maybe I've just grown used to it, maybe I'm using this old dirty glass right here.

James Crosslin: 5:32

I don't know who's to say it's, it's, it, it's toxins released by the bacteria that consumed the sugar in the glass.

Ryan Baron North: 5:44

That's what you're tasting that second one. That was that ashtray backwash that I'm used to on a second shot of this stuff. All right, and this last one, oh yeah, this last one. Speaking of fucking white hairs in your beard, it occurred to me just earlier today that we've known each other for going on 20 goddamn years.

James Crosslin: 6:08

Yeah that's true, yeah, cheers.

Ryan Baron North: 6:10

Cheers to 20 years. 20 years, oh, that one came in fucking hard.

James Crosslin: 6:18

Oh, I thought I'd be dead by now. Yeah, I know Right, I was counting on it.

Ryan Baron North: 6:23

Well, I was thinking about it like just boomer economics kind of shifted everything. So stuff that you were able to accomplish in your 20s you now kind of start accomplishing in your 30s.

James Crosslin: 6:37

So we're going to die right in our 40s. Got it.

Ryan Baron North: 6:40

Or so our our 27 club is actually 37, so we still have ample time to just fucking spiral out of control and do it like they used to classic yeah, no, I'm excited the way it's meant to be.

Ryan Baron North: 6:57

Yeah, no, I'm excited about it. All right, everybody. So it's time to dive into it. I already went over it a little bit, but we're going to break this show down, this movie John dies at the end. We're going to do it in three parts. Right now, we're going to do our sober thoughts, then we're going to jump into our enlightened thoughts, since we're on the golden path, and then we're going to do some what ifs where we throw ourselves in. So let's jump on in. So sober thoughts, john dies at the end. James, what?

James Crosslin: 7:25

do you think this is a little?

Ryan Baron North: 7:25

different. This one's a little different than what we normally do that's true.

James Crosslin: 7:29

This is not so much science fiction as it is fantasy. It's like, uh, it's like multiidimensional fantasy and there's a big distinction. There's no actual science fiction concepts here. There are more fantasy concepts and there's a few philosophical concepts. And one thing I wanted to point out while I'm sober, we get through the boring stuff in the sober thoughts portion, which is so. So the lead character, the lead of the movie, is David Wong, is the character's name and that's actually the writer of the book John dies at the end is his. His pen name is David Wong, his real name is Jason Pargin.

James Crosslin: 8:18

He's a yeah, he's a comedian and writer, and he used to work for cracked, which is a crackcom and cracked magazine. We're really influential for me when it comes to comedy. So there was like 10 to 10 or so years there where cracked, I feel really dominated internet comedy and I still listen to the people who came out of cracks podcasts and, like cody johnston and robert evans who does the behind the bastards podcast, we had garrison from, uh, from behind the pastors podcast on on our podcast, yeah, gamefully unemployed network.

James Crosslin: 8:58

They have a lot of podcasts, but they. There's a pretty popular youtube show called uh, some more news, where that cody johnson does has like hundreds of thousands of views every episode. So these cracks, these cracked people, have been, you know, semi-successful. They're pretty successful. They get to live their dream, which is nice, yeah. But jason pargin is uh, he used to work for them. He works for 1 900 hot dog right now, I'm pretty sure is the name of the very funny group with with other people from cracked. Um, he continues to write. He has, uh, a lot of absurdist books out from a series called uh, zoe, what is it?

Ryan Baron North: 9:43

It's called the Zoe uh franchise, but he, he has a whole bunch of books, uh, but anyway, well we, we put more effort into promoting him just now than we do our own show at the end of this fucking thing.

James Crosslin: 9:55

Well, I really like him and I hate us, so that's why, hell yeah, I really I think he's a, I think he's a very funny guy and I think his writing is is really fun. Uh, I don't know how well it translates to the screen if we're just talking about sober thoughts like do you, do I like this movie? Uh, I hated this movie. Okay, okay, interesting, go on.

Ryan Baron North: 10:17

I absolutely hated this movie. Okay, okay, interesting Go on.

James Crosslin: 10:19

I absolutely hated this movie. All right, I thought it was bordering on incoherent. I felt like the. I felt like it was, you know, so the, the, the conversations about tropes didn't didn't really exist at the time, I guess. So it was like a just an introduction of like hey, here's all the movie tropes, which was kind of a new concept at the time.

Ryan Baron North: 10:47

maybe I love that you built him up to tear him down.

James Crosslin: 10:54

No, he didn't write this movie. His work was adapted for this movie and he's openly said like I am not going to criticize this movie. You know, uh, his work was adapted for this movie and I he he's been. He's openly said like I am not going to criticize this movie, this movie. Thank you anyone for making my works into film. I appreciate you. I will never criticize this movie and then paul giamatti showed up yeah, paul giamatti was was was the best part of the movie.

James Crosslin: 11:17

Paul giamatti was the best part of the movie. Paul Giamatti was the best part of the movie.

Ryan Baron North: 11:22

He always kind of is the best part of what he's in he steals the show. He really does. Very hilarious guy.

James Crosslin: 11:33

He is. What about you?

Ryan Baron North: 11:45

How did you feel about the movie? So it was, it felt like a. It felt like a cobbled together labor of love. Honestly, they, they found this. They probably found this book that they enjoyed in a fucking Barnes and Noble it was. It was weird, it was sort of out there and they're like, well, let's see what we could do with it. It introduced some very rudimentary philosophy. A lot of it we've already touched on in this show. It starts with a thesis ship with the X.

Ryan Baron North: 12:13

I mean which, knowing that rudimentary philosophy, I mean it's enough to get you laid at a college party. You?

James Crosslin: 12:19

know when did this movie come out?

Ryan Baron North: 12:22

In 2007? I don't, I don't fucking know, it wasn't that late was it hold on I'm gonna look at it. Yeah, like the year we graduated from high school, it wasn't that fucking late oh my god, apparently it was the year of our lord, 2012.

James Crosslin: 12:37

Okay, you gotta be fucking. No, this was way too late. That that was way too late. The book, of course, came out earlier.

Ryan Baron North: 12:46

Jason jason parsons book came out and it still maintains a fandom. Yeah, if I remember right, he's got one or two of them he's got very he's got a very rabid fan base for his stuff he's really big on book talk. I don't like tiktok, but yeah, but honestly so I'll give book talk credit just because it's keeping it is kind of keeping alive the written word yeah making it sort of trendy and holy shit. Do we need that? But um, uh, I mean, like I see things about like just you know, uh, like I.

Ryan Baron North: 13:25

so you know I own a motorcycle and so I'm targeted all the time by douchebag biker dudes and like half of them are like riding down to barnes and noble to pick up some book dot girlies, and so you know, it's, it's, it's a trend, and you know I'm happy that we aren't just completely abandoning you know the particular art that I've chosen to chase after my life. But yeah, I forget where I was going with this. Oh, yeah, books are good. Yeah, books are good, books are good and yeah, so, like I said, I think someone found this book, someone enjoyed it and they kind of labored or loved it. It was obviously a b movie. I did enjoy, um, the two main characters. I I thought they balanced each other well. I thought, uh, like the first dude, like the main guy, not john david, david david, he, david wong, he comes off like sort of, you know, like talking to a fucking shoe, but he, it becomes his character and eventually you're like I've met his character.

James Crosslin: 14:31

His character is the personality of his shoe.

Ryan Baron North: 14:34

But like I've met that guy and uh, I thought he was well balanced by john. I thought the guy who uh played as john, I thought he was well balanced by John. I thought the guy who played as John I thought he was fun.

James Crosslin: 14:45

I do not think they were diametrically opposed at all. I feel like they were in fact just totally random.

Ryan Baron North: 14:53

There were a few lines that I enjoyed and I liked the way John just sort of played into it, like, um, my friend John, here, he uh, he has poor eyesight on the on the account of his constant masturbation and he's just in the corner nodding respectfully at the comment and like like, all right, I can't even enjoy the cheekiness of it. Um, I liked the bratwurst, um cell phone, um, I, you know. So there were, there were a few things that I'm like all right, that's, that's fun, that's fun it. It was like a, it was like a less fleshed out rick and morty, yeah, like sort of this universal cosmic nihilism. But it's like fuck it. It's funny instead of it's depressing and I'm divorced right right exactly which I can appreciate.

James Crosslin: 15:48

Yes, I don't think it was. In my opinion, it wasn't funny enough. It was neither. It was neither this kind of early 2000s nihilism or like what was it? What's the word? I'm looking for Aloofness. It was like an aloofness from the characters about what was happening to them. That made them feel. It made me feel uncommitted To what they were doing. Because they felt uncommitted and it's like okay, if you want to make a point about commitment and about surrogates For our viewpoints and stuff like that, okay, but also, you want me to care about your piece of media I? It's hard for me to care when they don't care well I?

Ryan Baron North: 16:47

it sounds to me like we may be on the golden path. Oh yeah, we're already there that makes sense it might be time to uh line them up one last time and get into the high drunk thoughts of this thing. So let's load them up, I'm gonna pour right there. There we go. It's only 100 horsepower. I could afford a little bit extra here. We are all right. Um.

James Crosslin: 17:17

So yeah, let's, but I am, I am we normally we kind of we have good opinions on what it was and so it's kind of going to be interesting to sort of bounce like these negative thoughts off of it too, especially from a guy that you know we're obviously like in approval. Yeah, yeah, I'm in approval of David Wong. I think that his writing is better than this adaptation of his movie.

Ryan Baron North: 17:44

Well, I'm in approval of David Wong. I think that his writing is better than this adaptation of his movie. Well.

James Crosslin: 17:48

I'm going to have to pick up the book to compare. I think I own this book For real. Yeah, I think so. I think this was gifted to me and I read part of this book. I don't know if I made it all the way to the end, but I found the writing enjoyable Okay.

Ryan Baron North: 18:02

Well.

James Crosslin: 18:05

I mean I just throw, I put down books and movies and shit all the time and just don't finish up.

Ryan Baron North: 18:08

Who's got the fucking time? Yeah, I'm in the middle of buttfuck Missouri right now, and so a bookstore around here? No, not a fucking chance. So I'm going to have to make a journey. So here's our final one, right here, as written.

James Crosslin: 18:23

Lisa Dalgai.

Ryan Baron North: 18:25

As written. Oh there it is, man I finally speaking, of which I finally fucking worked through that Titanic Doom episode we did. That'll be coming out today.

James Crosslin: 18:39

Oh, awesome.

Ryan Baron North: 18:41

Thanks for doing that, man oh yeah, that was, that was a, that was a toughie and I've been sort of, uh, life has been coming at me with its pants down and so it's been tough, but I'm I'm spending this sort of week here just knocking it out, getting that content out there to the people who've been uh, who've been demanding it, knocking down the gates for it, kind of thing, you know yeah, just blowing up your phone at 3 am.

James Crosslin: 19:04

When's the next episode?

Ryan Baron North: 19:07

yeah, oh it's, it's, it's exhausting, it's exhausting, you know, and just, oh my god, the the women throwing themselves at me I don't want it.

James Crosslin: 19:16

Oh my god, oh my god oh, it's terrible.

Ryan Baron North: 19:20

I all this drugs and sex that I don't want to be having.

James Crosslin: 19:24

But I have it for the fans. There's expectations. Uh, you know. I tried watching the other guys again. Yeah, the way Farrell treats his wife, yeah, like it is unbearable. I can't watch the movie. I cannot finish the movie because of how like the violence against the verbal violence against a woman is, so it turns my stomach so hard. Every other part of the movie I feel is hilarious.

Ryan Baron North: 20:02

But that was just. I haven't watched the movie in years. I'll have to revisit. Yeah, Eva Mendes, I'll have to revisit. See how we think about that.

James Crosslin: 20:16

She's in such an abusive relationship it's so hard to watch.

Ryan Baron North: 20:20

Well, I mean, you mean, you know gators, bitches and whatnot I'm supposed to be laughing, see this.

James Crosslin: 20:26

This really segues us into the point where it's like the energy of a movie is really important and the energy of this movie was like aloof and getting dragged from place to place and not really being engaged or excited or driven, and the movie also felt that way you know, yeah, it made me feel that way and I wasn't excited and I wasn't engaged and I wasn't driven. It has a lot of like it's random. It's the I'm so random of movies, in my opinion.

Ryan Baron North: 21:08

Well, speaking of finding white hairs in the beard. I wonder are we too old for this movie?

James Crosslin: 21:18

Is the fact that we have encountered many pieces, of many more pieces of media before this one affecting our view of it? Probably?

Ryan Baron North: 21:27

I mean, or could it, could it just be like, like we talked about right off the cuff, is they start this with fucking theseus's ship? It's super, um, rudimentary. So maybe this movie isn't for us. Maybe it's for us when we were 17, starting to become the future prolific hosts of high and dry podcast.

James Crosslin: 21:55

Right, and that may be true. Right, that may absolutely be true, because this started as a serial release. So it was, it was. It was just written as a serial originally, before it was compiled into a book, and I just read that it started in 2001, which is, you know, around the time where we would have been just encountering opinions, and I have a note.

James Crosslin: 22:19

I have a note about that specifically. I said this movie is introducing emo kids to several fleeting concepts like identity, predestination, causality, inhuman intelligence, uh, without actual, any actual discussion or exploration. Yeah, it just really throws a bunch of things out there okay, well, I mean.

Ryan Baron North: 22:49

So I mean that may be it, because I mean I I feel like you know watching this. Just take me back to 2005 six. You know that region right there. This would have been right up my fucking alley and I feel like watching it. I definitely saw sort of a younger version of myself in John and I mean he's in a shit band.

James Crosslin: 23:20

Yeah.

Ryan Baron North: 23:21

Hold on a second.

James Crosslin: 23:22

I have a quote here from the band. It is camel Holocaust hair, hair, hair, hair. Exactly. I was like this is so fucking stupid yeah.

Ryan Baron North: 23:36

Yeah, so that's what I'm saying and it just wasn't for us. But in that same scene I thought it was also cool. I liked the sort of the empathy that we were having for an amputee they made jokes with her hand later, did they?

James Crosslin: 23:57

they made jokes about her hand, yes, like at the very end when she lifts her prosthetic hand to his face like yeah, you're right, you're right they had a few scenes where the prosthetic was a joke and I was like, oh my god yeah, well, I mean right off the bat, though.

Ryan Baron North: 24:15

She was talking about just the phantom limb syndrome and the dude and, like the people who were coming down on her were immediately viewed as assholes right so yeah so.

James Crosslin: 24:29

But here's the thing, yeah. So, yes, they did. They were like, don't be an asshole about, you know, people's disabilities, but what it was really there to do was to set up the phantom limb thing, and and the whole jason's writing does this. I've read a little bit of the zoe series. Zoe's too drunk for this universe, I think, was one of the one I I I read quite a few passages from, and his writing is a lot about non-sequiturs that turn out to not be non-sequiturs, like they come back right and but they're without this cohesion of story. They're without the cohesion of the story and therefore their setups and callbacks that are more non-sequitur and for a young person who hasn't encountered non-sequitur humor before would would probably have a lot more of a fun time with that yeah, okay yeah, sure, plant payoffs great, but a lot of time there's story in there.

James Crosslin: 25:36

These are like hidden planted payoffs where the dude just mentions phantom limb in the first like scene at that party or whatever, and then and then it comes back way later in the movie but for like they're, they just like wanted you to think about it for a second, yeah, and and then and then they brought it back and sure, that's a storytelling mechanic where you're like why the fuck would they mention that?

Ryan Baron North: 26:00

well, yeah, that seems weird. I mean they just stunned the shit out of it.

James Crosslin: 26:04

But but there's a bunch of things in this movie that have no bearing on anything that they're just saying. There are 6394.

Ryan Baron North: 26:14

Yeah, right, so he's just throwing down, yeah, rudimentary philosophy that they, that, they, that they picked up somewhere.

James Crosslin: 26:24

And again, I, I gotta, I gotta, read this book now to see if it was the film or if it was the book, because I'm I'm really curious I think so I enjoyed the book more that I, the parts of the book that I read, which is most of the book, uh, more than the movie, even though I didn't finish the book and I finished the movie. I just don't. I, I have a hard time getting through books. I have a problem with it.

Ryan Baron North: 26:53

Oh, yeah, but uh you gotta get on that book talk. I like books, but I just like it, it's it's feels strenuous to do it, and I enjoy movies more. Well and then. So there were other parts of the the film than the film that were cinema cinema I did like the dog's suicide bomb.

James Crosslin: 27:22

I did like the dog's suicide bomb I was so I had such a distaste in my mouth of the movie at that point that I couldn't enjoy it, and I feel like I should have.

Ryan Baron North: 27:33

I feel like I should have. I love the dog, just like closing his eyes, accepting his fate and for like the greater good of the universe. I did enjoy that.

James Crosslin: 27:43

I felt like the movie wasn't funny enough. That have been a like that's a great premise. Yeah, it's a hilarious premise. Uh, that's too bad. I'm glad. I'm glad that that you're able to cut through that and see, like, get a lot of joy out of that scene. It just sucks that it didn't land for me.

Ryan Baron North: 28:01

Yeah, no, I think it was. I think the main thing for me was just being able to, I guess, reconnect with how shallow and undeveloped I was when I was John's age and so, seeing the way he acted and the way he behaved and these very, very fleeting glimpses of some form of maturity and enlightenment, and then immediately going back to fucking nonsense and all that sort of things, I was able to identify, at least at that stage in my life with John. Remembering who I was back then allowed me to kind of delve into the film a little, the cinema a little more, yeah, and I think it's just. I think it's just, uh, this was not for 35 year old Ryan, this was definitely for 17 year old Ryan, right?

James Crosslin: 29:18

Right, the, uh, the, the dreams. The dreams were so dumb that they were recounted like Paul Giamatti's mom whipping him with a lash made of penises and uh, that's not what dreams are like.

Ryan Baron North: 29:31

Yeah, yeah.

James Crosslin: 29:32

Nobody has dreams like that. Nobody has a dream where their ex is sitting on a big pile of cartoon dynamite, yeah.

Ryan Baron North: 29:39

And then that that big pile of cartoon dynamite, yeah, and then that that. That pissed me off because I liked the premise of asking how did your mind know the thunder was coming?

James Crosslin: 29:53

right, yeah, that's the philosophical concept?

Ryan Baron North: 29:56

yeah, and it was. It was muddled by cartoon dynamite in a dream. No one has ever, ever dreamt of cartoon dynamite, you know, I except for like the dude who actually wrote Jason the road runner for goddamn Warner brothers that guy, he's the only one.

James Crosslin: 30:17

He dreams about it because he was sitting there drawing it all day and his mind, his mind dreams the things he encounters.

Ryan Baron North: 30:24

Exactly yeah, no, and oh, jesus Christ. So, like they were, they I would say that that's the the big thing about this was always on the cusp of touching on something worthwhile, but then fucking it up with cartoon dynamite.

James Crosslin: 30:45

Yeah, yeah, that's a great, that's a great way to put it. Uh, uh, I feel like it tripped over its own feet a lot with with being. It took some things really seriously Like it. It tried to have. It tried to have big things to say at times, or at least emphasized it like big things to say and I was like I didn't think that was that big yeah, I feel like.

Ryan Baron North: 31:10

I feel like this is this is uh sophomore shit, which is exactly what it is, which I guess, that's kind of who it's for well, I mean, I think it was, wasn't it the second episode ever of high and dry, when turk was the third host? Yeah, we did these, we did these ship and that's all. The axe was in the beginning, and we started with theseus's ship and the trolley problem, because that's where you should start.

James Crosslin: 31:44

Yeah, that's true.

Ryan Baron North: 31:45

Yeah.

James Crosslin: 31:46

That's true.

Ryan Baron North: 31:47

And that's where I hate. Look this film. This cinema had Paul Giamatti sign off, all right, so if I can put some respect, on it.

James Crosslin: 31:56

It had Paul Giamatti using a hard R yeah. Paul Giamatti using a hard R yeah, paul.

Ryan Baron North: 32:03

Giamatti drops a hard R In this movie. He sat down read the script and was like, yeah, the hard R for a white man is a beautiful actress deciding it's time to show her breasts.

James Crosslin: 32:24

Beautiful actress deciding it's time to show her breasts and and paul giamatti decided that john dies at the end was his heart. Our film wait. Can I say the n word in this one?

Ryan Baron North: 32:34

yes, and he did yeah that's what he.

James Crosslin: 32:37

He asked for it when they were like Paul. We want you to play this character. Can I say the N word Then?

Ryan Baron North: 32:43

he's like yes, yes, because you can. Actually, it's weird that you brought that up unprovoked.

James Crosslin: 32:50

How did your brain know that you'd get to say the N word? And then the camera zooms in? Holy shit. How did I know.

Ryan Baron North: 33:02

So it's actually a very commonly known thing in Hollywood that Paul Giamatti has always asked, whenever he's offered a role, if this is the one, and he finally got it with this B film. Finally got it with this B film Because, I mean, for whatever reason, tarantino has never been knocking down Paul Giamatti's door, and so he thought it would never happen.

James Crosslin: 33:34

Paul Giamatti wanted he didn't want it to get lost in the stream of hard R's in the movie that's why he couldn't do a Tarantino In a Tarantino film. Doesn't stand out at all. That guy sucks. Why, why? In every movie.

Ryan Baron North: 33:50

He was actually originally put in to be Leonardo DiCaprio in Django Unchained and he's like. I feel like my hard R will be lost.

James Crosslin: 34:01

I just want to say it once as a punctuation.

Ryan Baron North: 34:06

And that's how Leonardo DiCaprio got the role.

James Crosslin: 34:09

Yeah, because he was more comfortable. He was like can I say it 40 times?

Ryan Baron North: 34:16

Yeah, and this is why people come to High and Dry is to find out all this fucking dirt that you know behind the scenes that only we are privy to. Oh man, yeah, no, but that, yeah, he did drop that, though, and he felt that this was the film for that. But, uh, jesus Christ, where the fuck were we going with this? I?

James Crosslin: 34:40

I don't know. This movie is like concepts. It introduces.

Ryan Baron North: 34:43

I, yeah, I'd say that.

James Crosslin: 34:44

I would say that I would say that this movie, if you watch it with friends, everybody would have questions, right, everybody would be asking each other questions and I would say that it would, uh, definitely spawn conversation. The problem is like we I as a, as a older person, I guess this spawns very little conversation for me, like I've seen, yeah, no, I would be at that party.

Ryan Baron North: 35:11

I would be at that party where we decided to watch John dies at the end and going like oh. Oh boy, where were all these, where all these people I was starting to talk to now are like being introduced to theseus's fucking ship? I'm like, oh my god, what's?

James Crosslin: 35:27

happened to me. Oh no, why did they laugh when he didn't want to touch the dick? I thought that was stupid. I thought you just touched the dick just over the door. It's a dick, whatever they're laughing like crazy.

Ryan Baron North: 35:40

Too much, too much. Yeah, no, I'm in a room with a bunch of joe rogan fans and I didn't know that before I watched this film I wouldn't touch a dick to save my life yeah, I didn't, I didn't ask yeah. Oh yeah, those are the people. Those are the people, definitely.

James Crosslin: 36:07

And oh my.

Ryan Baron North: 36:07

God Dude, I got to tell you, living out here in Missouri for work, it's for work. I have met so many of those people.

James Crosslin: 36:28

And, dude, some of them are in their 40s.

Ryan Baron North: 36:29

Yeah, it's wild, they're all, oh, my god oh my god, well, no I don't even, I don't even think they would attach to john dies at the end because, uh, fucking john would be awakening, like this bisexuality that they've never fucking dealt with. You know, that's true, and and it would just be too much. It would just be too much. Um, it's, oh, my god, like, oh, I mean, it's just there's, there's people out there who really really need to get and just touch with themselves, think about something that makes them uncomfortable, you know, and get to the other side of it, do some fucking growth, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right. Well, with that being said, it's time to delve into the third part of this thing. It's time for the what, if? All right, it's time to insert ourselves into this fucking paul giamatti dropping hard r's nightmare. How does this change? So? So, james, you've inserted yourself into Paul Giamatti dies at the end, into John dies at the end I mean he does, he does actually Spoiler alert.

James Crosslin: 37:51

For this 12-year-old movie oh my God, it's been that long and 23-year-old old book, essentially.

Ryan Baron North: 38:01

Wow, Well, that's crazy. Well so, James, how does it change now that that you're in it?

James Crosslin: 38:12

I don't know, it's so. It's so there. There isn't anything here. I don't know what to say.

Ryan Baron North: 38:19

There's nothing there.

James Crosslin: 38:20

There's nothing there. There's nothing there because the the character doesn't make any choices, it. Things just happen to the main character, the. The choices don't make any sense by design. He keeps getting calls from future john, and, and it's. It can be used anywhere as a deus ex machina, what. What am I supposed to do with this? Essentially, I just I don't have the time in this one to write a new story, just write a story about myself story, yeah, no.

Ryan Baron North: 38:53

Well, so are you? Uh are you.

James Crosslin: 38:57

there's nothing here. I would kill myself to deny whatever cosmic force wanted me to take part in this terrible story. I would kill myself Out of spite.

Ryan Baron North: 39:20

Solid.

James Crosslin: 39:21

Solid. Well, are you David Wong or are you? Uh, are you david wong or are you john, doesn't matter. I guess I killed myself. I killed one of us and then the other, and I annihilate our friendship I shoot him and then I shoot myself, all right. Cool. What could I have done differently? They didn't make any choices and just got dragged from one thing to another. They did.

Ryan Baron North: 40:03

They did just get dragged from each fucking thing. Oh, my god. Oh, this is what happens when I just I message you in the morning like I, I don't know, I'm seeing john dies at the end, let's see what happens now for me. Uh shit, well, I mean. So if you take me right now and all of a sudden I get hit by the soy sauce sure, apparently you've got a plan, apparently you've got a plan well, I mean it would definitely shit, I mean it would definitely change, I mean it would definitely change my trajectory hands down.

Ryan Baron North: 40:44

So just taking it that way, so stepping out of the film, I have this syringe of cosmic entity and I've been hit with it. How would that alter my life? I mean, I'm definitely not going to work tomorrow, that's for fucking sure.

James Crosslin: 41:02

Well, maybe you are, Maybe you're supposed to go to work and maybe at work you know that pig head that was controlled like living. It was the first living computer that shows up in the break room fridge at your work, and that's what I now have to deal with it. It's literally that's the entire movie, man. That's the entire movie. It's just things show up and then they have to deal with it.

Ryan Baron North: 41:29

Yeah, yeah, well then. So then here's my question for you. Then, so, instead of because we can't put ourselves into this film that wasn't made for us, right? We can't put ourselves into it, so let's just take the soy sauce and put it into us. Ooh, okay, how does that change our lives? So, fuck, john dies at the end and we're just going to pull out, I guess, the catalyst and put it into our lives instead of this film.

James Crosslin: 42:03

Well, I'd have some fucking direction. Let me tell you, if the soy sauce hit me, I'd want to learn about it. They don't seem to want to learn. No, they don't seem to give a shit. They're very anti-learning guys. Well, paul giamatti's ghost says that, listen, if you get these hands in someone some kind of side, if you get these in some kind of scientist's hands, they're going to lose their shit. What is this? Let's figure out what this is. It's crazy, that's what I'd do.

James Crosslin: 42:33

I'd go down to the community college and I'd meet some interesting individual who has nothing better to do and I'd say I need some help figuring out what this is. It gives me psychic powers, demons, blah, blah, blah, because things are popping up everywhere.

James Crosslin: 42:51

I don't have to like try hard, I anywhere I go, something's apparently gonna happen to me. So I have a bunch of evidence. I'm just collecting evidence. I got fucking crates full of full of spider leeches and shit just just waiting to be figured out what's going on. They don't seem particularly hard to capture or anything. Yeah.

Ryan Baron North: 43:11

You're right. No, so if I got my hands on this soy sauce, I mean how it would change my life? Fuck, I don't even, Because I think my main. I would say that my main issue is always trying to find the knowing that happiness comes from inside, but always looking outside to find it Right. And now, all of a sudden, I know everything about the outside.

James Crosslin: 43:45

Oh, that's interesting and. Now there's nowhere else to turn Now.

Ryan Baron North: 43:49

there's nowhere else to turn now there's nowhere else to turn, and so I I think it would have forced a confrontation like a personal myself, yeah so all these things that I chase after in the external um, whether it's a job, a location, a relationship, whatever it is, you know, I know how they all turn out and there's no longer an excitement within those things, and so the soy sauce then in my life would force me like absolutely force me, inward, yeah, and so I think it would have a very profound impact yeah, honestly, their society at the end didn't seem too bad.

James Crosslin: 44:37

There's their alternate society with gorok titties everywhere, titties everywhere. We worship gorok, hell yeah, everybody's everybody's wearing masks and shit, so it seems like a cool place. They all have like a bunch of like infinite knowledge and shit seems cool whatever a few people get thrown into the knowledge machine. Are you telling me that somehow our earth and system are better than people getting thrown into the machine to keep things churning Well at?

Ryan Baron North: 45:10

least there they're up front with it.

James Crosslin: 45:12

Yeah, they're like we're going to take you to the machine and it's going to assimilate you.

Ryan Baron North: 45:17

You're going to allow us to keep having all these titties out and just enjoy life.

James Crosslin: 45:24

I know.

Ryan Baron North: 45:25

Yeah, the dog who killed itself wasn't really thinking.

James Crosslin: 45:33

It was a, it was a libertarian extremist. He actually uh, he was, uh, he was a big fan of the Unabomber, yeah.

Ryan Baron North: 45:42

The dog in this film was just a libertarian extremist.

James Crosslin: 45:45

Left a manifesto on his hard drive.

Ryan Baron North: 45:52

Yeah, and he just had to destroy this other world that he didn't have access to. He, his mind and his insecurities did not allow him to be in a place where it was just about fucking titties and chilling, yeah, whatever. What a dumb ass. Oh my god, libertarians, that's what we think of you, by the way.

James Crosslin: 46:20

Yeah, yeah, but you know they're probably not listening to this podcast they, they want to be the ones grinding the people with their own hands yeah instead of yeah exactly instead of just out there enjoying the titties it's like I want to be the monster machine. And in the perfect world, nobody's responsible for anything and they're just responsible for themselves. So if you which when you take that to its logical conclusion you're not responsible for anything that happens to anybody else, and so it's, and so it's a worse system.

Ryan Baron North: 46:55

Exactly, yeah, no, and uh, well, well to uh to close out this final segment. Or are in your life, um just, are there any other ways that the soy sauce?

James Crosslin: 47:12

would change your life. I don't know. I feel like it'd be really overwhelming. I don't know. Maybe, maybe the zest for life would go away if you knew everything that was going to happen. I guess that. I guess they didn't. I don't know. Did they know everything that was gonna happen?

Ryan Baron North: 47:28

john did?

James Crosslin: 47:30

john seemed to know everything that was gonna happen yeah david didn't seem to know anything that was gonna happen. Because, remember, he didn't seem to know anything.

Ryan Baron North: 47:42

He only ever got pricked and then he only got that little cheek wound. He didn't take a full. Another one flew down his throat.

James Crosslin: 47:48

Yeah, I think, and it was in a whole. It was in a whole thing. So those two little flies came out of a whole thing of it I just think. I just think that it's a mcguffin right for this movie to just make things happen.

Ryan Baron North: 48:06

The soy sauce just makes things happen. I don't know. So what would a MacGuffin do to your life?

James Crosslin: 48:13

I don't know, I have no idea yeah, wow.

James Crosslin: 48:16

It doesn't matter. That's the thing is. It doesn't matter what it does. This movie is so fatalist that literally nothing matters, because whatever is going to happen is going to happen. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. Whatever is going to resolve is going to resolve. Literally, I'd just be along for the ride, would I know that I was just along for the ride? I might. And therefore it takes all the je ne veux away. I don't feel the zest of life because too much shit is happening all the time. And then I apparently know is going to happen and it's just like I'm so I'll. I'll feel how I did during this movie, where I was like, yeah, okay.

Ryan Baron North: 49:02

Yeah, you bring up a great point. Yeah, no, and half of I feel what defines me personally is my, I guess, adventurousness, and if you take away mystery, I guess I'd lose half of myself.

James Crosslin: 49:25

You would have gone and helped those guys at the end of the movie? I would have yeah, probably yeah, those guys at the end of the movie. I would have, yeah probably.

Ryan Baron North: 49:30

Yeah, I don't give a shit about this basketball game, but if you had soy sauce, would you?

James Crosslin: 49:35

I don't know if you got, if soy sauce like was just like. Oh yeah, every dimension is going through this bullshit their own shit and yeah, whatever, this is just a drop of the bucket. Who gives a shit? Yeah, maybe, and I mean, if that's the case, then as you walked away from them, like I was like all right, cool guys, you guys seem great. Yeah, you guys are awesome yeah, no, I'm glad you're the ones yeah, right, well, I mean at that, at that point I've.

Ryan Baron North: 50:12

I guess I died when I took that soy sauce because all the things on me are gone. Yeah, it's pretty weird and I just get trapped in. Whatever the fuck.

James Crosslin: 50:20

This is paul giamatti, given the hard r, forever one of the questions that I would end up asking at at the college. At the college uh hangout where we watched john dies at the end and someone's smelly cum covered dorm room, we would, um, I would ask, uh, if, if this guy was all a figment of, uh, dave's imagination, david's imagination, if that, if that detective was dead the whole time and and you know, paul gmi was just a figment of David's imagination, if that detective was dead the whole time and Paul GMI was just a figment he's been dead for weeks. What about the dream with the lashing penises from the night before?

James Crosslin: 50:59

Right, yeah Is that just you mentally masturbating about a quirky thing. I think so it's just mental masturbation at that point and it's like, alright, yeah, that tells me about all I need to know about this movie. It's like it's mental masturbation for for, just for just coming up with. Wouldn't it be cool if?

Ryan Baron North: 51:24

and there you have it, folks. So yeah, john dies at the end. It's mental masturbation. So thanks you all for listening. I'm your host, ryan barron north with me, as always, james crossland, hope you.

James Crosslin: 51:39

I mean you probably shouldn't watch that one, but how did you know that this was the end of the podcast? It just felt like it.

Ryan Baron North: 51:47

I saw the cartoon dynamite. Thanks everybody, bye, bye.