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Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
Get your MOJO ON! Champions talk with Champions about topics that are interesting and important to Masters Swimmers, or anyone that wants to be inspired. We explore what makes a champion in sports, but most importantly in life, through deep questions, fun quizzes and an authentic desire to inspire others. Co-hosted by two world record setting masters athletes, Kelly Palace and Maria Parker, each bring unique experiences to the show. You'll benefit from their insightful perspectives as they talk with champions, coaches and experts.For more visit ChampionsMojo.com.
Champion's Mojo for Masters Swimmers
Filmmaker Finds Redemption in the Pool: Michele Kuvin Kupfer's Journey Back to Swimming, EP 262
What happens when life's challenges pull you away from your passion, only to lead you back years later with a renewed sense of purpose? Michele Kuvin Kupfer, a former member of the 1980 Israeli Olympic swim team and filmmaker, invites us into her world—a world where swimming was once both an escape and a refuge. Despite facing hurdles due to her Jewish background and personal struggles, Michelle's return to the pool as she approached 60 is a story of resilience and transformation.
Her journey back to the Maccabiah Games in 2022 alongside her Israeli teammates highlights the enduring power of sport to heal. Michele is the Co-Director and Executive Producer of the new film Parting the Waters, a Feature-length documentary about trauma, hope, and courage. Besides being a documentary filmmaker Michele is also a behavioral therapist, and educational consultant. She is the co-founder of Difference Diaries, a documentary short film series focused on adolescents and young adults with chronic illness.
We also explore the historical and emotional significance of the Maccabiah Games for Jewish athletes, including the unbreakable bonds forged through shared challenges and triumphs. Michelle’s journey is further amplified through her work in film, where she shares stories of chronic illness and mental health, reflecting her commitment to resilience and community. From overcoming fear to finding joy in new beginnings, this episode celebrates the inclusivity and empowerment swimming offers, inspiring listeners to live fully and embrace life’s possibilities at any stage.
Film website https://www.partingthewatersfilm.com/
Email us at HELLO@ChampionsMojo.com. Opinions discussed are not medical advice, please seek a medical professional for your own health concerns.
I had learning disabilities, I had detention problems, I was all over the place, but when I got in the pool it kind of soothed me and I was able to take my frustrations out in the water and really saved me. Then and then, as I tell my story, swimming comes back and saves me again, and then again, and then again comes back and saves me again and then again and then again.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the award-winning Champions Mojo, hosted by two world record-holding athletes. Be inspired as you listen to conversations with champions and now your hosts, kelly Pallas and Maria Parker.
Speaker 3:Hello friends, welcome to the Champions Mojo podcast and, as usual, I am co-hosting with Maria Parker. Hey, maria.
Speaker 4:Hey Kelly, it's good to be here today.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's great to see you and we have a really amazing show today, as always. But our special guest today is Michelle Kuvan Kupfer, a member of the 1980 Israeli Olympic swim team, who also swam collegiately at Indiana University. In her youth, Michelle swam all over the world and had left swimming, but recently found her way back. As she was heading towards her 60th birthday, she was feeling the world was closing in on her. After several of life's obstacles, she found herself in a deep hole. She turned back to swimming. She thought maybe if she reassembled her Israeli team to swim together 40 years later at the Maccabiah Games in 2022, she could find herself again. What else Maria.
Speaker 4:Well, that's when she decided to get back in the pool more seriously and swim at age 60 like she had when she was 18, returning to a lot of work, dedication, aches and pains, but also deciding to tell the story of this comeback in a film for herself and her teammates. She's producing a documentary called Parting the Waters, a story about belonging, personal struggles, perseverance and triumph. So welcome to Champions Mojo. We're so glad to have you, michelle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm really honored to be here and to be with both of you who I grew up with, knowing you guys in the collegiate world. Certainly Kelly was swimming and Maria, your accolades in sport is just amazing, so thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 3:Well, we, yeah, we're excited to hear what your life has been like since. You know, being a 1980 Olympian for Israel. Can you just take us back to maybe your days of growing up I believe it was Palm Beach, florida like how you got into swimming a little bit and then what obstacles were these that got you into this hole that brought you back to swimming so I had a really unusual, I think unusual.
Speaker 1:Everyone has a story and this is just my story. But I grew up a little differently. My father was a doctor, my mother was a social worker but a survivor of the Holocaust. They came to the States and trying to fit in, my father was an infectious disease expert and came to NIH and Miami but was looking for. His quote was always I'll have four kids in five years and I need to pay for all this. He saw this ad about a doctor being needed on the small island of Palm Beach, florida, and my parents really didn't know much about it. It's a small island that's very well known for sort of the rich and famous, but he knew it was a job and he took it.
Speaker 1:So we moved to this little island in Florida, not really knowing much about what it was all about, except that it was beautiful. It was the water, and growing up in Florida you better learn how to swim real quick because there's water all around you. So my parents were like, threw us in the pool at a really young age, whether we liked it or not, and I loved it. I loved it. I felt free in the water. I'm in between two sisters and then I have a younger brother out of the four of us and I was really good at sports, where they were really good at school and I wasn't. So swimming was sort of a haven for me.
Speaker 1:But growing in Palm Beach had its challenges in and out of the pool. I couldn't swim on the local swim team, which was only about a five minute bike ride away, because they didn't allow Jews at the time. So my mother had to drive me off the island 45 minutes to a different pool where I was allowed to swim, the island 45 minutes to a different pool where I was allowed to swim. You know, this was kind of crazy to me. I just couldn't understand it. It was hard. I was the only Jewish person on our swim team for a long time and you know, look, growing up is hard wherever. But swimming was that place where I would go during those young days of swimming and not being able to swim on certain teams. But then I was beating everybody and they're like ooh, okay, well, they wanted me on their team but I couldn't be on their team. So in some ways there was a little bit of payback to that team.
Speaker 1:What year was that that was? I started swimming early, like five, six, but really competitively around eight, nine in the youth, and then around 10, 11, 12 is when I really started picking up and getting a little bit more seriously. And then, probably like any swimmer, listening, around 12 is when you sort of make that decision Am I going to be really dedicated to swimming and join the AAU teams and swim twice a day and do all that? And that happened around 12, 13, when I realized that I was better than most and I thought, wow, I can find my place here in this world Because I was really stuck in between two sisters who were really smart and just did really well in school and I was like I had learning disabilities, I had detention problems, I was all over the place, but when I got in the pool it kind of soothed me and I was able to take my frustrations out in the water and really saved me. Then and then, as I tell my story, swimming comes back and saves me again, and then again, and then again.
Speaker 3:So, Maria, I think I'm with you, At least. Maybe our list starts what year? Years of your age, but like what year was it that you were excluded for being Jewish? What year was?
Speaker 1:that. Yeah, so that was in the early 1970s. So I was born in 1962 and at age eight, nine, 1970, and was wanting to be on the team, not just going to swimming. They had a team for like eight 10 year olds, I think the youngest group was and, man, I wanted to be on that team and it was just down the street, I could ride my bike there and that was when I first realized, wow, this world is not as pretty as what I see when I look outside the window, at the water, at the ocean.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry that you had to go through that. Obviously, we know that the tough things we go through usually make us the best, the hardest deals formed in the hottest fires. How did you end up on the Israeli Olympic team, being a Floridian?
Speaker 1:My father was very famous in infectious diseases. He had discovered the fluorescent antibody test for malaria, and so he was invited all over the world to give lectures. My mother, as a Holocaust survivor, never really felt she fit in in America. She wanted to be in Israel but didn't have the opportunity really to go until my father, who also wanted to go to Israel and had been for work prior to meeting my mother. My father was invited to go give a lecture in 1970, and my mother went with him. And that trip we did not go. We were young kids. They left us a call, they went to Israel and my mother came back a different person. It changed their lives forever.
Speaker 1:Israel in 1970 then became part of our lives. The next year we all went to Israel, and growing up in Palm Beach had its advantages. My father was the doctor. Palm Beach 50 years ago was really a winter resort. People would live there during the winter and everyone would flock to their other homes in the summer, so it allowed my father some freedom. He was also a real character. He's the doctor you want. If you called him up and you didn't feel well and you happened to be 10,000 miles away, he would say no, no, it's okay, I'll be there and he would go. He was doctor, he was a medical doctor, he was their psychiatrist. He really took care of his patients. But it allowed us as a family to go to Israel for three, four months a year and then come back for school. I couldn't understand why we ever left and didn't stay in Israel. But my father had to make a living. This was his best way of doing it. So we led this very schizophrenic life of going back and forth.
Speaker 4:And you went to school there at some point.
Speaker 1:I did some schooling there, but most of our schooling was on the island. Back then Palm Beach had a little school and there was no air conditioning. School ended like the first week of May and my mother would take us out of school. I don't know. It was a different time and we would study in Israel and do some stuff. But my parents weren't so rigid when it came to school until later on in life.
Speaker 1:But when I turned around 12, 13, I said to my father I love being in Israel, it was great, but I can't stop swimming. My team's practicing like crazy in the summer and I can't not do that. He goes, don't worry, we'll find you a team. And sure enough I joined the local YMCA in Jerusalem, which is a famous, actually the oldest Y in the world Amazing, and Jerusalem had this great swim team. So I joined and was not so welcomed at first. Here was this girl coming in and it was good and I was taking some spots away from other girls who were there 12 months a year and I was only there four, sometimes five months a year.
Speaker 1:But I loved being there. I felt much more free there, I just loved it and I kind of brushed it off team would be like what You're swimming in Israel? There are no pools there, it's a desert. What are you talking about? And then I'd go back to Israel and they'd be like, no, no, you just were with your American team and, I'm sure, practicing much harder than us or getting much more coaching than us which wasn't true, but it was sort of a little bit of a battle. When I was 15, our coach said to me you know, you're really good and we're putting together the team for 1980. And you need to make a decision. Do you want to swim for Israel or take your chances to make the American team? And in my mind it was not an option. I loved being in Israel Then. That was that was my first choice. And so I became an Israeli citizen at age 15. And from that moment on, any international event, my allegiance was to Israel. That continues to this day. That continues to this day.
Speaker 3:So you're an inspiration for this. You were in this kind of dark place and you got back in the pool and I love that. You said you trained like you were 18. Tell us about that, because our listeners a lot of them are master swimmers. What does it look like when a 60-year-old decides they're going to go back and train like they're 18? What was your training schedule and what was that like?
Speaker 1:Well, I'll fill in the middle pieces after we talk about this training period, because a lot happened between the time I stopped competitive swimming and got back into it. After I stopped swimming competitively, I really stopped, but I'm very active and hyperactive and was biking and walking a lot but wasn't swimming a lot mainly due to having three children very small, two with severe medical issues. It was a very difficult start of a family. Years later I got back in the pool, but just sort of to escape everything, to get my head under the water and would swim some laps. But it wasn't training in any way until I decided to recreate this idea to get back into the pool. And the reason I wanted to do it were two reasons. I was really not in a good place.
Speaker 1:My best mate from swimming, lior, who was a national swimmer in Israel and really the queen of the crop she became an announcer for swimming. She immediately became a master of swimming, was one of the best in the world was diagnosed with colon cancer and was dying and our team wanted to motivate her. And the other was our son, who's a brain tumor survivor. Yeah, I know, when I read your bio, maria, I just you know it's very difficult. He was diagnosed with a brain tumor as a child and it's been a very, very difficult road. And as a young adult, he was living with us and I was trapped. I was trapped with this sweet, sweet young man but trying to keep him alive and it consumed me. It was also during COVID and we were. It was just even more amped up than it had been in years past and I felt like it was either going to be him or me. I felt like I was really losing myself and it was really my husband who said you got to get back in the water. That's where you go when you don't feel well. That's when you go when you need to think. That's when you go when you just need to be creative. Go, get in the water. And so I thought oh my God, how am I going to? I started looking at the times of master swimmers and Kelly I mean you and I swim the same event. I'm thinking, oh my God, you know I can't go and not win. I held the records in Israel.
Speaker 1:It was such a great motivator for me and it gave me focus to say can I do this as a almost 60 year old? Can I get back in the water and really compete. I had no idea how intense master swimming is, so I had to really get back and it hurt. I remember getting in the water the first time and I made my husband come with me because I said, oh my God, I need somebody to say get there, just do it. And I remember lifting my right shoulder, which I had injured years prior, and thinking, no, this isn't going to work, I can't even do a full thing. I've always been in shape. I'm an athlete but not at that point, and it took every day just kind of saying no, I can do it.
Speaker 1:A lot of ice, a lot of heat, a lot of physical therapy, really a lot of motivation for my husband, gary. But the truth is there was so much deep inside of me that felt like this is my way out. Maybe, maybe I can save myself again. The swimming saved me so many times. I thought this is a big one, this is a big ass. I'm 60. I want to swim in this big race against swimmers who are like competing all the time. But I needed something to save me because I felt like I was being really sucked down trying to keep our son alive. My best friend is dying. I felt like I was sitting at the bottom of the pool and not seeing what I typically would see when I was young looking up at the bubbles and seeing the light. I was feeling like I was just seeing darkness and I needed to recreate that light again. So it was hard. It took a lot of getting in the pool, hurting but also feeling like every day was a little bit better and a little bit faster.
Speaker 3:What did that look like? You know, like was it three days a week, five days a week, 1,000, 5,000?. What does that look like when an Olympic swimmer comes back and I do want to say you don't have to go to Masters and win, that's just your.
Speaker 1:You are still right and I have a fun story to say why I said that. But getting back into swimming for me was very different than when I was a swimmer in my youth, because I was a distance swimmer and back then it was about yardage. You know, I'd get up at 430 and swim two hours and go back and swim two hours and it was like you know as many yards as you can get in or meters you can get in. That was the goal and I thought, well, first of all, there's no way I can do that. I don't want to spend four hours a day in the pool and also I think swimming has evolved that you don't need to do as much yardage. So I got that, I sort of wrote that in my head and I don't have to do that type of amount. So I started about three days a week just trying to get in about a thousand, just getting comfortable in the water.
Speaker 1:Again I had a real problem, though I couldn't flip. It wasn't because I couldn't actually do the flip, but I would get so dizzy that it would ruin my, not just that moment, it would ruin like my whole day. I had terrible vertigo and I went to the ear doctor and he says and he kind of laughed at me and he says you know, you're almost 60. I mean, most women your age, a lot of women your age, have this problem where they get dizzy more easily. And I said okay, well, what can I do to fix it? And he goes well, you can try this, you can try that. I tried everything and it just didn't work. So I got really good at turning fast but I felt like it was slowing me down, and I think it does still slow me down. But that always was in my head that I'm not flipping. But I did start around three days a week and then within a few months I went to four days a week, around 2000 yards, but I was avoiding looking at the clock and that was my own psyche, like I didn't want to look at the clock and think am I really slow or am I where I should be? And I just didn't for a long time. Then, slowly, I decided I better look at the clock and see where I'm at and I started pushing. But I have not gone over 3,000 meters, but I do swim four to five times a week, always in the morning. If I swim late, I don't know, maybe it's my age then. I can't sleep all night, so I'd swim in the morning.
Speaker 1:I definitely needed to go to physical therapy, which was something I never needed as a youth. That was new to me my back, my shoulders, I would get cramps in my feet. I had to learn how to really drink a lot during practice, keep my electrolytes up, which I was not used to as a youth. It was a different way of training, but it wasn't unmanageable. It felt really manageable and I met a lot of really amazing people in the master's world that. It just opened my eyes up and I kind of said, god, why wasn't I doing this all along? I felt like I missed out, like why did I stop? And this was like a reawakening. And now one of the biggest gifts I've gotten out of this whole thing is that I'm a master swimmer and I love it. Oh, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1:How's your son? Oh, so I'm. So you know, I read your bio, maria, and I know you had a sister who died of brain cancer and it's been a hard road. My husband happens to be a pediatric hematologist, oncologist, so you can imagine when we go in and they tell us our son has a brain tumor and my husband's one of the doctors on the team. You know it's like not right. He's alive because of modern medicine, which is amazing that he's alive. He's alive and he can stay alive if he is compliant with his medical regimen, which is, as you know, with children, especially when they enter adolescence and young adulthood. Being compliant is very hard, and chronic illness and mental health go hand in hand.
Speaker 1:I studied in school. I was a behavioral therapist. I studied in school, I was a behavioral therapist and before our son got sick, my expertise was working with young adults and adolescents with chronic illness. Oh, wow, go figure. Yeah, married to an oncologist. Everyone thought we were this like dream team. Here we are, and we were at Yale.
Speaker 1:I was giving all these lectures about the sake of social issues, about how to care for your kids, and here we are with our own son, and when our son was around 15, 16, everything with him is artificial. How he grows, everything about his body is because of modern medicine. If he stops taking his medicine, he will not survive. He lost vision, he's lost some things, but you know, if you met him, he's this good looking guy and he's smart, but has a lot of limitations due to the mental health side of a chronic illness depression, anxiety living up to what he should be, that he's not Very complicated stuff and he's the first generation to survive and he's a small number.
Speaker 1:You know, brain tumors in children is very rare. You know, when my husband decided to go into oncology I said no, what if he had a kid with cancer? I mean, don't do that. And he's like no, you don't understand. We hear about it a lot because the cute little bald kid but it's actually quite rare and that's where his research was his most interest. So I'm like cool, am I to say what he should do.
Speaker 1:But it came back to haunt me big time when they told us our son had brain tumor. He's an interesting young man, he's sweet and kind and capable, but it's been a lot of keeping him alive, him not wanting to take his medicine, him wanting to fit in like any teenager. But it's really hard to understand the depth of how he felt because I don't know how that feels. I am not a believer that you have to have cancer to be empathetic and caring and all that, but I didn't know how to understand some of like just go to school, just get there, just go and do it or just take your medicine. Lots of periods of time and he's on a huge cocktail of medicine, which is amazing he's alive, but a lot of consequences.
Speaker 4:Sounds like there's lots of trauma in there, not just for him, but for you.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think you get that exactly right Everybody has somebody in their family who has something. It doesn't have to be as traumatic as a brain tumor, it can be anything. It doesn't just affect that child, it affects the entire family and it infected our family in a very profound way. He's wedged in between two girls and it was really hard and it continues to be really hard, but amazingly they all were so happy I'm doing this project. So to go back when our son was around 15, I was incredibly frustrated with the care he was getting for his mental health at Yale Wonderful school. But you know, hey, they weren't doing their job school. But hey, they weren't doing their job.
Speaker 1:And I teamed up with my friend, lisa Headley, who was the first person at HBO to do a film about children of difference. She did a film about people with dwarfism. It was the first time. Now we have Facebook and Twitter and YouTube and everyone kind of throws up their stories, but 25 years ago this was unheard of. She got very well known in the documentary world and did very well at HBO, and it was about difference.
Speaker 1:So 15 years ago we started a online program for schools called Difference Diary where we had very short films like two, three minutes, about young adults who deal with chronic illness on the psychosocial side, and we had a whole educational platform for this program. We also paid a lot of attention to drug companies, who make a lot of money and save these kids' lives but don't deal with them when they become adults. When our son was 10, he was so cute and, oh, poor baby, let me buy him a present. I'm like, oh my God, but at 20, nobody was running to our door and saying, can I help you? When he wasn't going to school, when he wouldn't participate with the family, when he was depressed, people would throw their arms up and say, gosh, that's a tough one, I don't know how to help you.
Speaker 1:So these drug companies owe it to these kids who are surviving now. So we did a lot of films for them to show them that they need to put their money where their mouth is. Because I was at Yale, I was able to back it up with the research I did. I showed them that 60% of kids who have some type of chronic illness, whether it's asthma, asperger's or cancer, are not as successful as they should be when it comes to relationships, finishing school and getting a job, and that's not the way it should be. It's because we don't support them, but that's how I got into filmmaking by telling these stories I think I can kind of synopsize.
Speaker 4:When you made the 1980 Israeli swim team, you didn't get to compete because there was of the boycott, and so your team competed at the Maccabee Games of 1982. Is that correct? 81. 1981. And that's kind of what you were trying to recreate, is that right?
Speaker 1:You said it so beautifully. So our team in 1980, the Israeli team was really one of the first full swim teams for Israel that we were good, we were going to the European nationals, getting in the top eight, top 16, at all these big international events. We would have made a presence at the Olympics. They would have known, ooh, israel's got some swimmers. I don't think we would have been on the podium, but we would have been in the semifinals and two people would have been in the finals. When we were told we couldn't go because of the boycott, we all had to deal with it in our own way. But we refocused quickly to the 1981 Maccabea Games.
Speaker 1:The Maccabea Games started in 1932 because Jews couldn't participate in a lot of sporting events and they wanted to recreate similar to the Olympics. It's exactly like the Olympics, but in Jewish experience, and they take place every four years, the year after the Olympics. And they've taken place every single year, except two times, during World War II when they had to stop, and it's become the second largest sporting event in terms of athletes in the world. These are amazing athletes. I mean Mark Spitz, lenny Krasenberg, ali Reisman. These are all people who are amazing athletes for America for the world, all people who are amazing athletes for America, for the world, have participated in the Maccabiah Games.
Speaker 4:So what happened to your team in the 1981 Maccabiah Games? Tell us about that.
Speaker 1:So in the 1981 Maccabiah Games our team really wanted to there show the world that we were good, that the Americans were going to come in and the Australians were going to come in, but we were going to win and we did. We just had so much fun. It was an amazing experience and it really bonded us in a way that I think swimmers and Kelly, you might relate to this. I mean, when you're with a team for a long period of time, there's a bond that is really strong and we had this bond not just from the 1981 team, but we started traveling in 1977, five years after the massacre at the 1972 Olympics.
Speaker 1:We did not travel like I traveled when I was in America. We had to travel with bodyguards, we had to travel with people with guns, we could not speak Hebrew loudly, we had to swim in the outer lanes, we had to stay separately and it was scary and unspoken but bonded us together even tighter and it was very hard for my American team to understand what it must have felt like America. You know, swimming for Indiana was also a highlight, but oh, what fun and freedom we had going to these meets. Nobody had to check your reel or worry about this or worry about that. We were just out and having a I mean so much fun, and not that we did have fun when we traveled, but we always had this heaviness about us that is somebody not going to like us because of where we're coming from the film is a reunion of those swimmers from the 1981 Maccabee Games, of the swimmers from the 1981 Maccabee Games.
Speaker 1:So the film started out as I wanted to get as many members of the team back as I could and Lior was still alive at the time. I don't want to give the whole story away and I also wanted to give a little history about the games. But also it was about my own story of swimming. Why swimming? I always came back to swimming. After we did a little bit of filming, we shopped around for editors and directors and we found these two guys, the Mark Mark Levy and Mark Solomon. They are probably the most famous editors and directors for commercials and Emmy nominator out in LA and they saw our story and said we want to be part of this and they have been really the core of helping shape this story into a universal story about how my story, which could be anybody's story, found something important and worked for them to save them in difficult times but also gave them enormous joy. So it helped me in the good times. It helped me in the bad times. It always comes back to swimming. It has Jewish and Israel theme, obviously because I'm Jewish and Israeli, but it could have been any country that I felt I was representing when I swam for Indiana. I represented Indiana, but we really turned the story into a much more personal journey throughout, and how swimming helped me when my son, when I thought, you know, I couldn't do that anymore and now it's shown me that life is full of turns and twists and we have to take advantage of what we can. And for me, swimming has been that place I can go to to help me, let my anger out, my frustrations out, to help me, let my anger out, my frustrations out. I used to hit the water really, really hard when I was a kid because I was so angry that I couldn't read like my sisters, or I was misbehaving and my sisters weren't, or all that, and I had to learn how to swim with a nicer glide, with feeling good about it, and I felt that when I got back in the pool, this time at 60. I felt like it wasn't out of anger and frustration. It started that, but then I found my groove again and I felt like, wow, I can swim, I can swim fast and I can swim and get out of the water and feel like I can face my day. And it's interesting and I'm sure you both can relate as athletes.
Speaker 1:I had to take a week off last week because I hurt my shoulder again and they said take a week off. And I'm like, oh God, I don't want to. But I did, I followed orders and I was really not. I was cranky, I was not in a good mood, I was walking a lot to do something, I was in pain and I thought, what is you know? And so I got back in the pool two days ago and I turned to my friend and I said, oh my God, I just feel so much better mentally, I just feel so much better. I still had a little pain in my shoulder, but I didn't care. I'm like that's what it does for me.
Speaker 3:Without a doubt, it's an amazing mental health tool. What was the mindset that got you from your initial because Maria and I always say we wish more Olympians and really elite swimmers would swim masters Like they don't know what they're missing. Yeah, they may be burned out, but you don't have to swim a whole lot to really get a lot out of masters. What switched you from this initial thing that you said, which is I don't want to go back to swimming unless I can win. And now you're a master swimmer for life and maybe do you care now if you win. But what was the transition there?
Speaker 1:First of all, I could care less if I win or not, because I didn't know what it was like. Master swimming is a team, a group of people who love what you love. I've met people who didn't even know how to swim at all until they were adults and now they're swimming in the master's program. We have a member on our team who's 85 years old, who insists on swimming the 400 and 800 because that's the one she loves and, by God, we wait. We wait for her to finish and it is just wonderful.
Speaker 1:I hit myself thinking why didn't I? And I think back and I realize I was consumed by life, by being a working mother, by trying to keep my kids alive, by doing this, and I felt like I couldn't do anything more. It was the wrong decision, but it was all I knew and I wasn't surrounded by people who were involved in master swimming. I felt very isolated during those years in master swimming. I felt very isolated during those years. So when I tried to get our team back, some said yes, but a lot said no and I really worked hard trying to convince them and I'm not done with most of them. But the ones that said, yeah, I'm going to do it, You're going to see it in the film and I won't give it all away. But one of my swimmers, who was he was a very big swimmer superstar. He got out of the pool and he was swimming all along, but not like racing or anything, and he was hugging me and he whispered in my ear and he said you just gave me the best gift of all. And I thought, my God, we both learned our lesson. But, master swimming, I've done some races here in America. It is so much fun.
Speaker 1:And so now our team in Israel, we're going to go to Worlds next year together. They go together all the time. I couldn't go this year due to the film, but I'm going to go next year. I'm going to do everything I can as long as our bodies keep up. But yeah, that's the other thing. So many people said oh God, you're 60. No, you're too old. No, we're not.
Speaker 3:I love it Absolutely. I mean, we were just at Masters Nationals last week and a lot of the interviews that I did. I asked what are your long range goals for Masters? And they're like interviews that I did, you know. I asked what are your long range goals for masters? And they're like, I want to be like so and so who's 90. We had 103 year old. I said they're a woman, but yeah, it's a gift. And Rick Walker I don't know if it was his original, but Rick Walker is a friend of ours and when somebody we've interviewed and Rick summed it up up the best, he's the sarasota sharks coach he said at the end of the day, no one's watching. You know, like nobody cares what you do to the me, no one cares except you watching. But that's it, it's, it's, it's. No one cares. No one really cares if you, if you set a world record or if you get last.
Speaker 1:No one cares exactly, and that was my calming. With the flip turns, nobody cares, yeah. And the other thing is diving off the blocks. A lot of people are like I'm not that. So you get in the water, you start in the water, nobody cares. Everybody is there to have fun, to swim, to feel good. They're all doing it for different reasons this film has brought me to.
Speaker 1:I've interviewed a lot of old time swimmers and one of them is Skip Ball, with his last name. He's an old time swimmer I don't know if he was at the Nationals, but he's 87 now and he had to get a pacemaker put in and he had to take a month off. Oh my gosh, he was calling me up every day. I can't do this, I have to get in the water. And his doctor was like just give it a, just a few more days. And finally he got back in and he's back swimming. I said I want to be like you and he's amazing. And my friend Esther, who's 85, open heart surgery, all sorts of things, doesn't stop her. Yeah, I think we have to live our lives and do the things. And yeah, maybe it takes a little bit longer to recover from some of the aches and pains. Maybe, but who cares? Ice and heat are my best friend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So, Michelle, we love your passion. Before we go to the fun, sprint around is there anything that we have not asked you that you would like to share with our listeners? Anything that we have not asked you that you?
Speaker 1:would like to share with our listeners. Well, first of all, I'm so grateful and honored to be on your podcast. I love both of you, what you've done, the books you've written your own journeys. Kelly, if I could do the 400 as fast as you, I would love to, but I would love to swim next to you and it doesn't matter what we do I love it that we're both distant swimmers.
Speaker 1:That's really fun. No, you know, I think the film that we have created is everyone has an amazing story and this is just my story and I hope anybody who watches it will feel a part of it. I want that whoever watches it to feel that they can relate, whether it's the part of swimming or the part of it. I want that whoever watches it to feel that they can relate, whether it's the part of swimming or the part of being a mother, or the part of being a sister or fitting in. That's the passion of why I wanted to do it.
Speaker 3:Wonderful, beautiful. Well, thank you so much for this. We'll say goodbye at the end, but we're now going to have the fun. These are one word answers. Okay, but we're now going to have the fun. These are one word answers. Okay, ready, I'm ready. Take your mark. What is your favorite sandwich? Turkey. What do you own that you should throw out Old bathing suit? Scariest animal to you Hippopotamus. What celebrity would you most like to meet? Helen Mirren. Favorite movie genre British crime shows. Okay, my last one before Maria takes over. What is the hardest swimming event in the pool for you?
Speaker 4:800 meters. Favorite smell Grass. Do you make your bed every morning? Yes, kickboard or no kickboard. Now, no kickboard. If you had to listen to one song for the rest of your life, what would it be, judy?
Speaker 1:Collins, both sides. Now Good.
Speaker 4:Window or aisle Window Describe your life in five words.
Speaker 1:Fortunate, grateful Interesting.
Speaker 4:Challenging Accepting Nice. Last one words fortunate, grateful, interesting, challenging, accepting nice this last one, what? Word comes to mind when you dive in the water freedom very nice, lovely, great.
Speaker 1:Yep, wow, that's it. That's a great. I love that. It's such a good exercise. You guys are great, great. I could talk to you all day.
Speaker 3:I want to learn more, Thanks.
Speaker 4:Michelle.
Speaker 3:You're great, you're an inspiration and that's what Maria and I get more out of this than anyone we do Getting to talk to amazing people like you and spend some time getting to know people. And we always get off the interviews and we're like, oh, we feel so great.
Speaker 1:I feel the same way and you know you inspire me too with what you do and again, I'm just really grateful that I'm part of your show and look forward to you coming and seeing the film when it's out and being inspired, more inspired.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks for our listeners. We'll put all the information, your website for the film in the show notes and any other things that you think and that'll always refresh, and so anybody who sees your interview can come back and find where it is and all about it.
Speaker 4:Thank you, thank you, thank you, michelle. What a delight Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Stay tuned for the takeaways. Want to succeed like a champion? Five-time Olympic coach Bob Bowman, coach of Olympic legend Michael Phelps, says Kelly's book Take your Mark Lead is a powerful addition to your personal improvement library, and learners from all walks of life will gain key insights and enjoy this inspiring book. Take your Mark Lead debuted as an Amazon number one bestseller in five categories and is available online. And now the takeaways.
Speaker 3:All right, maria. What a great interview with Michelle. Yeah, Cuban pepper, she's just amazing.
Speaker 4:And, yeah, just a really great interview. So what was your first takeaway? Yeah, we can all relate to whatever you know to a trauma. Maybe it's not big T trauma, it's little T trauma, but every one really and every family has something and I think recognizing that and having compassion for that is just a huge takeaway for me.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and then you've always taught me, is giving yourself grace.
Speaker 3:You know, I think that was something that you taught me that when really hard things come up and that's what she was talking about, the big T, the little T, any trauma, is just giving yourself some grace, that we all do have something to hear her kind of support it. When you have chronic illness, you really need to be aware of the mental health factor, of all of the mental health factors that go with being chronically ill. And you know I was chronically ill for 13 years where it was just it became a mental health issue as much as a real physical issue. So I love how that's what got her into filmmaking. You know that she was doing these films, these short videos on chronic illness and mental health, and I think you know, just to be aware, hey, if I have something that's ongoing, even chronic illness is defined as longer than three months, because you know if you get the flu or you break your ankle or we really need to be aware that when people are chronically ill, that we need to be addressing their mental health.
Speaker 4:That's so true, and it's just making me think of my mom and dad, who are both, you know, having chronic illnesses right now. You forget that. I mean you're so interested in getting over the physical side that you forget that there's this whole other thing and it's just, as you said, bigger and badder in a lot of ways than the physical illness. That is a beautiful takeaway, kelly. What was your last takeaway? Well, it's classic and everybody I hope everybody listening to this knows this. But I love what Michelle said exercise gets you out of a hole. It's so true, I mean, I can just weep thinking about that. She told the story of not being able to swim for a week and then she got back in the water.
Speaker 3:She was just like oh, they don't want you. Yeah, the surf popped out.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but it's true. Sometimes, when you're in a hole, the last thing you might want to do is go get in the pool. Forget to grab your letter. And you know, one majorly important letter is exercise, no matter what time of life it is for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we talk about that all the time. And just exercise can be walking, it can be just standing up and stretching. It just depends on what. You know, how deep the hole is and how you got to get out. But you got to start with that first step.
Speaker 3:The longest journey and my last takeaway and there were many, but mine was I loved it when she said why didn't she start master swimming earlier? And this is my soapbox yes, it is. I don't care if you're an elite Olympian and you can't stand swimming, get back in there. You know you don't have to win, you don't have to swim like you used to do. Get back in there. Or if you are kind of a brand new person who's been thinking I'm too slow or I'm, you know, I don't like to be in a bathing suit or whatever, just do it. Sometimes, when we think we want to do something but we're scared of it or hesitant, if we just do it, just start that momentum and do it, that she was so glad she did it and now she wishes she had started it way earlier.
Speaker 4:And she's an evangelist. Now she's talking to everybody about it and I think master swimming is. You know we talk about this every time, but it is that sport that you can do until the day you die.
Speaker 3:It's maybe the only sport. Water is very forgiving, so is the master swimming community. Yes, all right, maria, another great one in the book. Love you, kelly. Thanks so much.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Champions Mojo podcast. Did you enjoy the show? We'd be grateful if you would leave us a five-star review on iTunes to help others find us, and we'd also love to hear from you. We're on all social media platforms or you can reach us at championsmojocom.
