Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast: Making Art Work
#265: Eduardo Placer (Founder of Fearless Communicators) (pt. 2 of 2)
This week on the podcast is part two of our interview with Eduardo Placer—actor, Story Doula and Founder of Fearless Communicators®. As a global facilitator, Eduardo has led workshops and spoken with groups at HBO, Google, Bank of America- Merrill Lynch, Yale, The Juilliard School, and the Wharton School of Business. His private clients include Industry Leaders, CEO’s of start up companies, UN Diplomats and social activists. Prior to focusing all his energy on Fearless Communicators, he was a professional actor for 15 years, working all over the US in over 38 plays and musicals. If you speak publicly or anticipate you will, this is one podcast you won't want to miss!
Welcome to the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast. Making Art Work. We highlight how entrepreneurs align their artistry, passion and vision to create and pursue opportunities to capture value in the arts. The views expressed by guests on the Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the podcast or its hosts. The appearance of a guest on the podcast, the venture they represent or reference to any product or service does not imply an endorsement or recommendation by the podcast or its hosts. The content provided is for entertainment and informational purposes only and does not constitute business advice. Here are your hosts Andy Heise and Nick Petrella.
Andy Heise:Hi Arts Entrepreneurship Podcast listeners. My name is Andy Heise and I'm Nick.
Nick Petrella:Petrella. Eduardo Placer is on the podcast today. After earning an MFA in acting from UC San Diego and working as a professional actor for over 15 years, he founded Fearless Communicators, a public speaking coaching business. As a global facilitator, eduardo has led workshops at hundreds of organizations such as HBO, google and the Wharton School of Business. Private clients include CEOs of startup companies, un diplomats and more. Eduardo gave a fantastic presentation at Kent State's Art Without Limits event in 2023 and we're really happy he could join us here. Eduardo, thanks for being on the podcast.
Eduardo Placer:I'm honored to be here Thank you so much for having me and I had no idea what the hell. I had no idea what I was doing, no idea. And I think what happens is I learned how to network. I learned that networking is not about hunting, it's about relationships and gardening, planting seeds. I always knew that I was I'm going to say it extraordinary at what I do because I'd also had reps. I'd been doing it for 10 years in all these little pocket practices. And then I leaned and I leveraged on my network of people that I went to undergrad, I went to the University of Pennsylvania, people that I went to undergrad with, people that I knew from my acting career and beyond family friends.
Eduardo Placer:I was somebody who I think I have been a force of goodwill in many spaces that I have been in. The people remember me. People don't remember what you say or do they remember how you make them feel. I would probably offer that most people who haven't experienced me. The feeling is affirming and positive, like I really like him, or he's really great, or he's really great energy. Yeah Right, that's also a conscious choice. Some people choose to be an ass and then nobody wants to work with that I mean sure they get that one thing, but nobody wants to work with that person. Again, like who wants to suffer it? Yeah, even if they're like a major celebrity, I mean, who wants that karma? Yeah, yeah.
Eduardo Placer:So it was in that landscape in the first, I would say in the first months of me starting fearless communicators, again just leveraging network and not making a lot of money. By the way, I'll say the first year of my business, I think I made $12,000 or something like that. When I called to get Obamacare, to get health insurance, they were like, oh, you don't qualify, you're on Medicare. You're like I have an idly degree. I mean that's a safety net. I mean, thank God for the safety net. Like I didn't have, like I could have gotten food stamps. I don't look or perform what people would think that to be, but I want to name that because that is the reality of the social net. You know, like because I'm also collecting unemployment, because I've been working like I collected unemployment, I was hustling and figuring out what the hell I was doing and I was leveraging the power of a social safety net to support me, to build what it was that I was building. But those were dark, dark days.
Eduardo Placer:And yet within that, I have a dear friend of mine from college who is a board member at something called the Muslim Jewish Conference. I'm not Muslim and I'm not Jewish. And now what happens is I go to Germany, I go to Berlin for the conference and I facilitate workshops. They're not paying me, but they pay for my flight. I have zero expenses right in Berlin and I'm in a social entrepreneurship kind of place where I am now meeting entrepreneurs and founders who are leveraging their commitment to social impact and interfaith kind of work. Some of those become relationships and future clients of mine. Right, that's right there. Right, there's your net working. So I do that. There's a networking and through someone that I went to grad school with, I find out about a there's a client of.
Eduardo Placer:And then also because I was up for a Fulbright, so I was up for a Fulbright. It was a Fulbright that was with National Geographic, where I was in India, kenya and South Africa and do work around AIDS orphans with storytelling with AIDS orphans and stuff like that. I was in the final thing. I didn't get it. So I was in the final core. This whole social media campaign, all this other stuff didn't get it. So I think after that so I was kind of thinking about that could have been like a year kind of gap year kind of opportunity. That didn't happen. There was nothing. I guess I'm launching Fearless Communicators. I think the universe provides. The universe is just like sorry, this is it. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna do the thing Right. So then I had posted and shared something about not getting this Fulbright.
Eduardo Placer:One of my first clients, who I met in 2012 while I was still an actor, is a woman in Kenya and she said well, why don't you come to Kenya and I'll have you teach at this university and I'll put you on TV and I'll have you do these workshops?
Eduardo Placer:And then, because I was in Kenya, connected to another colleague of mine who was doing some work in Kenya, somebody that I knew and then a friend of mine from grad school connected me to this woman who runs this LGBTQ fund for activists in five East African countries. So then I get paid, which covers my flight and all that other stuff, to then facilitate a workshop for these LGBTQ activists from East Africa right on the beach in Kenya. Then I fly back to the US and then, through this other network, I then facilitate at this inclusive men's retreat in Bermuda, wow. And then I fly to California, you know, to a friend's wedding. So I had like this month worth of like opportunity and travel because again I had nothing. I stepped into the yes and just trusted where's the energy, where's the light coming, you know, and positioning myself in those places and figuring it out.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, and you know the other benefit it rains a lot more in Ashland Oregon.
Eduardo Placer:It does.
Nick Petrella:So you get to miss that you get to miss it Exactly the gray.
Eduardo Placer:Yes, all of that.
Andy Heise:Eduardo, you said something about when you were first starting, like that first year. I think the phrase you used was you were leaning into your network and I think that's a concept that, particularly with like the undergraduate students that I work with, like they kind of get the concept of I kind of have a network, I know I need to kind of, you know, foster those relationships, but I don't think they really know what that looks like, like what. I was wondering if you had an example of what leaning into the network looks like.
Eduardo Placer:I think leaning into the network is being in communication with people right, and letting them know what you're up to Right. And I think leaning into the network, again, it's a guard. You're planting seeds, right. So I think what happens and this happens with a lot of artists is we're afraid to ask. I think a lot of people are afraid to ask. It's the same thing as a business owner Like, you're afraid to ask for the sale and, specifically, if it's you, it's your work, it's what you've created. There's a hurdle around the ask asking for support, asking for help, asking for that and I think that if there are people who love you and care for you and there are probably more people who love and care for you than you know or think right they will most likely want to help you out. They just don't know how to because we're afraid to tell them how they can help us. So we sit in silence complaining nobody helps me, nobody wants to help me, but have you told them how they can help you? Have you made an ask, right?
Eduardo Placer:So one of the things that I think is a useful tool maybe for your students to do is start building maps of networks Now. These are high school students or college students. So an easy network can begin by who did you go to high school with Right? Who are your teachers? Were you in any other activities, like a sports team, or were you in a little league, or were you a part of a dance studio or were you a part of right? All those people you can easily connect with them on Facebook, on Instagram, on TikTok, like they're all these ways now that you can actually have some kind of dotted connection to these people. And I think part of it is also spending some time paying attention and celebrating milestones that happen in their lives, as they share them in the various ways that they share about them. So it's like, oh, you had a baby, or you got married, or you got into this college or you got into this grad program, or I saw that this happened. And then also, because people will also share hardships, I'm so sorry for you.
Eduardo Placer:I feel it doesn't mean that you have to now pick up the phone and deep dive for 45 minutes with every single human being, but it's like these micro little touch points where you're like I know you're there, I see, you think you're there, et cetera.
Eduardo Placer:And then I think, if you start mapping your network, start thinking who in that network has connections to people that can support me, and sometimes it's not that person, but it's their parents, it's their sibling. We are webs of people, right. That's why it's a net. It's a net and I think what happens is we get too transactional, focusing on what can this one person do for me? And oftentimes there are many things that that person can do and you can just sometimes give them options, and sometimes a no may be an immediate no to that one specific request that you're asking, but they may be a yes to something else, and sometimes we get so stopped by the no because we attach so much meaning to that no about our self worth or value that we shut down and then forget to make a different type of ask.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, it's not at this time, not necessarily yeah.
Eduardo Placer:It's a no for now, but it could be a yes later on.
Nick Petrella:Eduardo, what tips would you give listeners who aren't comfortable with public speaking?
Eduardo Placer:The first thing I would have them say is they're not alone. So I think I think there is a wonderful release in the acknowledgement that sometimes you can feel very alone in those feelings. And there are people who look like they're really confident. And then I mean I have clients of mine that are international bestseller Ted Talk, fully fetal, yeah, like you literally have to peel them off of the floor, right, their nerves are on five, sure, right. So I think gracing oneself with permission to be a human being is the most important piece, right. So I would say you're not alone. So there's nothing weird, there's nothing strange, there's nothing abnormal about the feelings that you have about it.
Eduardo Placer:The second thing I would say is, from a technical perspective, most people forget to breathe. The most important breath is your first one, and you'll notice when people speak, they're off to the races and then they're playing catch up so they hyperventilate themselves. So, launching and beginning from a place of power, it's never on your mark. It's like go Right, it's on your mark, get set, go. There's always that pause, right. So that pause is not about holding tension, but it is a release of breath, right, a real inhale and an exhale, like really getting yourself fully grounded and what I would say is an inhale, it's an exhale, and then another inhale so that you speak with full air. Well, most people do, andy, and because they do this and now I'm going to start speaking to you with zero oxygen because I just blew out all the air, right, it's completely abnormal to do something like that, but they're in fight or flight, so then they do unnatural things. So, really allowing a full inhale and an exhale and then a full inhale to then begin to speak.
Eduardo Placer:Number three, I would say have a very clear, if not fully memorized and I don't believe in memorization normally in your speaking, but fully have a knowledge of how you're going to launch, to know how you're starting, because the most nervous that people are is at the beginning. And then I would also say, know how you're closing and ending. So in again, this is a metaphor I've never flown a plane takeoff and landing. The pilot is necessary for the takeoff and the landing Right. So so having a strong takeoff and a strong landing, I think is and that's really you really know what that is.
Eduardo Placer:And then, number four, I would say is that speaking is an exercise in connection, not perfection. If it's an exercise in perfection. It's about you. The audience doesn't care about you, they care about them. It's good, they're there for themselves, right? So, and this is also how we're taught, get your university Lectures, love to lecture. No one wants to be lectured at, no one wants to be talked to, nobody wants to be lectured at, nobody wants to be, to sit there as a passive party in their learning, right? So speaking is an exercise in connection.
Eduardo Placer:So then, number five really ensure that you're speaking is in tune to your audience's needs and in leaving them with an experience. Maya Angelou, as you said, people don't remember what you say, or do they remember how you make them feel. So it is in your speaking that you're creating an experience. May we call it theater, sure, right, where your job is to lead an audience through a journey that they start somewhere and they finish somewhere else. Right, and that is what elevates the experience from them being bored to tears, not paying attention, checked out, to actually be challenged, to lean in, so that you, your message, your information, be of highest service to them.
Nick Petrella:I just love how you take what you've learned over the past well in acting for 10, 15 years and you're just applying it in another way, and I think anybody who's listening to this should realize it's absolutely possible. We just need to think about it in a different way.
Eduardo Placer:And Nick and Andy, you know it was such a pleasure to speak at Kent State and to really like lean into the learnings, you know, of my acting career and the lessons of being a professional actor and how those apply to business. You know, and one of the things that and I don't know if, andy, you've seen the talk, but I called it a life unlimited a keynote in three acts with a prologue and an epilogue, because I'm a little extra, right, so. So the whole keynote was in itself an homage to what I learned in the theater, right? So it's a 45 minute to 15 minute piece of theater. I'm giving you a prologue, I'm giving you three acts and I'm going to give you an epilogue. Right, and what I did in the epilogue and I'm a huge lover of words and language, andy that is, that is the tool that I have to do the work that I do, and I I never did.
Eduardo Placer:And I love etymology, I love word origins and I chose to look up the root word of theater. And the reason why I love root words, the reason why I love etymology, is because at some point we, as human beings, did not have the complexity of language, we just had sounds, and somebody said blah and blah collectively started to mean something, and then that blah meant blah. Blah and blah turned into something else and and what we have is language is like there was an original sound, and from that we have the complexity of language that we now use as human beings to express or explain why we're here and what happens from the moment we're born to the moment we die. And what does any of this mean? Like that is what language is for, that's what we have, right, and theater comes from the ancient Greek and it means a place for seeing. Now, I think that that's beautiful because, yes, it is literally a place where I go to see a play or I get to see a story, or I get to see actors perform or dancers or whatever. But there's something more fundamental in it, which is it is a play, it is a mirror.
Eduardo Placer:The theater is a mirror and a chance and a place for me to see myself, and I think that that is where theater and speaking and public speaking and what I do is it's most effective. What is happening on stage, who I am, what I am offering, what I might, what I am doing, what I am sharing, is a mirror. Yes, it's about me, but it's not just about me, it is through me. This is an opportunity for you, as an audience, to be in a learning. Now. We as human beings are in the same cycle of the same learnings over and over again. If you look at Greek mythology, if we look at the fables, if we look at the parables, if we look at all of it, it's like it's not like human beings are getting the lesson Right and yet, through the specificity of our DNA, our lived experience, it is a framing together of a new opportunity for us to learn the lesson newly, and that is that opportunity and the privilege of what we get to do in our work.
Nick Petrella:That's great.
Andy Heise:You know, public speaking we often put most of the emphasis or we think about mostly the speaking part, but there's the physical, the presence, the body language. That sort of thing is. Is that, is that a common issue, that that people have 100% because they're?
Eduardo Placer:yeah, they're. They're taught to stand stiff. You know and perform. You know cold, you know Connecticut. You know law professor, that's power. You know right man, you know that's it. You know don't move your hands. You know stand still, you know so. So people are locked.
Eduardo Placer:Now, when we talk about the bug, there's a beautiful saying it comes from the Osaro tribe of Papua New Guinea which is knowledge is only rumor until it lives in the muscle. I'm going to say that again knowledge is only rumor until it lives in the muscle. So there's knowing something in the brain and then there's knowing something in the body. Right, what happens is most people in the speaking are in their brain, so their body is flailing Because you haven't, you haven't brought the knowledge into the body. Now I'm not saying don't move. I'm not saying don't move your hands. I'm not saying stop pacing. I call it pacing tiger, hidden dragon, you know. I mean when people are like pacing through that stage and you're just like I don't know what's happening. That is all unconscious gesture because they, they haven't channeled their nerves, they're not in their body. Now I want gesture, I want movement, but it has to have a purpose and not as a robot. But there's a consciousness to. I am using my hands and I am using my body consciously as an agent to communicate the story and to aid you in the understanding of the story that I'm telling.
Eduardo Placer:Another way to call that is blocking in theater. If somebody were standing on a stage and they were just pacing tiger, hidden, dragging, they'd be like what the hell is happening? They're not anchored in anything. They're not anchored in the set. They're not anchored in the costume. They're not anchored in the props. That first rehearsal, when you have props, is a nightmare. Actors are like why You're flailing? You have your costumes and you have these things. My lines are memorized and I have to deal with this and that, this and that. It's a nightmare.
Eduardo Placer:Most people, in their preparation for their speaking, are like on the talking head. They wouldn't even talk it. They're like say it in their brains. They don't speak it out loud and they've never done it on their feet. So they don't have to deal with the stimulant. They don't know how to deal with the all the other stimuli that are happening around them because they're too busy in their head. They're not actually present in the room.
Eduardo Placer:I say communication exists in communion with community. Yeah, right, so it's the same root word of all of it, right, so you're not alone, you're always in relate. Your communication is always in relationship with your community, with the people that are out there, and it is a communion, it's a give and take. It's not just public speaking, it's also public speaking while I'm also listening to my audience at the same time, so that I can pivot and shift if I need, because there's that awareness. It's not like this empty, it's not a screen. They're there, they're breathing, they're live human beings. That's why I hate that public speaking thing is like imagine they're on naked. They're not on naked. I can see them. I'm not naked, I'm not naked. I'm not sitting there. I'm not sitting, I'm not naked.
Announcer:I'm not on naked.
Eduardo Placer:I'm not on naked. I'm not naked. The people I meet in front of me, right Pretended they're not there. I can't pretend they're not there. They're there. Yeah, that would. That's insanity, right? So instead of like creating walls to separate myself from them, what if we tear down that wall? But we can just be human beings on the planet together. Let's just be people. Can we just be people? Whoop, whoop and pee and breathe complexity. Can we just be human beings together in this space? Can I surrender the need to be perfect? Do instead allow myself the privilege to show up in service, absolutely yeah Right, mindset. That shift completely transforms the experience for you and it will do so for your audience.
Andy Heise:That's great, nick, you want to do these last three rapid fire, oh the final three that we always have. Yeah, go ahead, sure, okay.
Nick Petrella:Yeah, because we don't have time, and I'll mention something at the end. This is all good, yeah, yeah, this is great.
Andy Heise:Eduardo, we've reached the point of our interview where we ask all of our interviewees the same three questions, and the first question is what advice would you give to others wanting to become an entrepreneur?
Eduardo Placer:Jump in it's lonely, get support.
Nick Petrella:What can we do to ensure the arts are more accessible and reaching the widest possible audience?
Eduardo Placer:I would say there is a formality to it that needs to be broken. I think that we can make it more informal to make it more accessible, and I think sometimes we get stuck in our ways. It can only look like this because it has historically and it doesn't have to. I think the theater is ripe for innovation.
Andy Heise:Lastly, what's the best artistic or entrepreneurial advice you've ever been given?
Eduardo Placer:What other people think of me is none of my business.
Nick Petrella:That's great, eduardo. This has been so much fun. You just gave us a tough time because we picked sound bites, we used social media and you gave us so many great things. 50-minute sound bite, exactly, exactly, so we'd love to have you on again. This has been fantastic.
Eduardo Placer:Yes, anytime, anytime. And again, I'm an open book and I think it is all the work that I have done has led to this alignment to do the work that I've meant to do, and I feel really blessed to be able to do it. And one of the things that I love is I get to support actors who also don't have to compromise on their dreams as actors to be able to also be seen in their contribution, in their brilliance, to do work that is really important and meaningful in the world, and they get to also still do plays, and that, to me, is really powerful.
Andy Heise:Well, thanks for your time.
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