With Protega Global reporting that 77% of UK consumers believe brands should use ‘as little packaging as possible’, it’s important for new brands to research how to reduce their environmental impact.
As packaging can be a huge barrier to entry, I wanted to speak to someone who has created a stunning brand package.
In this episode, I hear from Randi Christiansen, CEO & Co-Founder of Néccessaire, one of the world’s leading body care brands. Founded in 2018, Néccessaire provides customers with minimal, high-functioning products and is now certified as both climate neutral and plastic neutral.
Keep listening to hear Randi’s advice on how to create stand-out packaging for your brand and why it is so important to maintain a consistent visual identity.
FF&M enables you to own your own PR. Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason. Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason.
Let us know how your start up journey is going or if you have any questions you would like us to discuss in future episodes.
FF&M recommends:
MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod. Link & Licence
With Protega Global reporting that 77% of UK consumers believe brands should use ‘as little packaging as possible’, it’s important for new brands to research how to reduce their environmental impact.
As packaging can be a huge barrier to entry, I wanted to speak to someone who has created a stunning brand package.
In this episode, I hear from Randi Christiansen, CEO & Co-Founder of Néccessaire, one of the world’s leading body care brands. Founded in 2018, Néccessaire provides customers with minimal, high-functioning products and is now certified as both climate neutral and plastic neutral.
Keep listening to hear Randi’s advice on how to create stand-out packaging for your brand and why it is so important to maintain a consistent visual identity.
FF&M enables you to own your own PR. Recorded, edited & published by Juliet Fallowfield, 2023 MD & Founder of PR & Communications consultancy for startups Fallow, Field & Mason. Email us at hello@fallowfieldmason.com or DM us on instagram @fallowfieldmason.
Let us know how your start up journey is going or if you have any questions you would like us to discuss in future episodes.
FF&M recommends:
MUSIC CREDIT Funk Game Loop by Kevin MacLeod. Link & Licence
Randi edit
[00:00:00] Welcome to season 10 of How To Start Up, the podcast helping you start and scale your business with advice from entrepreneurs on what to do now, next, or never when scaling your company. This season, we're focusing on all things brand. So you'll hear from a series of amazing entrepreneurs on what they've learned in their own journeys.
hosted by me, Juliet Fallowfield, founder of the B Corp certified PR and communications consultancy, Fallow, Field and Mason. Our mission is to enable you to earn your communications in-House with a long-term view.
[00:01:00]
/
hi, Randy. Thank you so much for your time today on How to Start Up.
We would love to chat to you about all things packaging and brands packaging. But before we get into that, I'd love it if you could just introduce a bit about yourself and a bit about the brand that you started.
Randi Christensen: /So, Juliet, thank you. So very much, for having me, uh, here at your podcast. I feel, I feel really humbled and privileged that I get to do this with you. And , I'm particularly, um, excited to get to talk to one of my favorite topics, which is brand and, and, and packaging.
Um, so a little bit about my background. As you can tell, I have a little bit of an accent. I, I am [00:02:00] from Denmark. Um, Born and raised in Denmark, went to school in Denmark, and ultimately began my career in the United States in New York City at the Estee Lauder companies. And, um, it's interesting because I feel, um, really fortunate that I got to in many ways grow up there.
Um, I work, uh, predominantly in the luxury division at brands like Creme de la Mer and at, uh, Estee Lauder, Tom Ford for Estee Lauder before he had his own brand. Um, and ultimately, in the incubation and the ELC ventures arm of, of the company. And, you know, I learned from so many amazing people there.
It is,
Juliet Fallowfield: I was like LVMH and Chanel, but we'd always look at Lord and be like, Ooh, you know, it's like the two girls schools. You wouldn't want to mess with them.
Randi Christensen: No, that's right. Uh, but what I felt I very much learned there was the discipline of brand and the discipline of business, right? And there are two different models. There are two different [00:03:00] frameworks that both have to co exist. You have to have a fundamental sort of strength in brand and be original, and you also have to have a business model that, supports your brand, right?
They go hand in hand. So I feel, um, in starting Nécessaire, I, uh, I've co founded Nécessaire, with a gentleman by the name of, Nick Axelrod, um, phenomenal guy. And Nick and I were working together at the time at Estee Lauder, and we were, uh, sort of both toying, with ideas of starting a brand.
And., we both found ourselves in Los Angeles. This is where we met. And we, used to joke and say, we're the only kids in all black in Los Angeles. And we were beginning to, drink the Kool Aid and, and beginning to live the Los Angeles lifestyle and spending 6 on matchas and green juices five days a week and soul cycle and all the things.
And. Being beauty junkies and, really, I think understanding beauty and living [00:04:00] beauty and loving it. We, we were both like, well, you know, what about body care? Like this category that it's kind of like skin doesn't stop at the neck. And yet it's like, we treat the face one way and we treat the body and skin everywhere else very differently.
Juliet Fallowfield: the quality of the products, the price point with the packaging, everything, you're so, so right. It's like church and state. It's very strange.
Randi Christensen: It's really, it really, it really was. Now, I think, we're coming along, but, we very much were like, listen, big picture, right? We want to create the necessary. That's why we named ourself Nécessaire, necessary, necessary toilet. We want to create this destination of just better essentials, less, but better, uh, better care made in a better way.
And we were both like, listen, let's, let's start with body because we, again, it was like, this is an opportunity we both sort of saw it and, and, and I think we [00:05:00] both needed it. And so I think oftentimes in launching something and starting something, there has to be sort of a calling, right?
Juliet Fallowfield: solving a problem that you found, and you want it fixed for you, so you may as well fix it for the greater good.
Randi Christensen: exactly. And I think we do have this sort of dream, right. Of, of, of being a skin destination for body scalp face, but we were really inspired by You know, treat your body like your face, treat your face like your body, you are one, it matters, it's, it's one skin, and began, to trademark some of, those phrases and, and then we just went for it, Juliet, we just went in, we just were like, fuck it, everyone were like, are you out of your mind, body, and, but you know, it just takes a couple of people that says, we believe in you, go, and there were, we were very lucky with a couple of people that were like, go, go, go, and, you know, Um, I think what inspires me is.
In a world, right, where I think fast beauty has become a thing now, right? [00:06:00] There's brands coming, going, trends coming, going, um, there's such low, you know, barriers to entry and beauty that there's so many people coming from all avenues that I think what I hold on to every day is the idea of creating a brand that. Has substance. Um, and that can be here a really long time. Um, that excites me. That's interesting to me. Like what's the difference, right? What needs to be true if you, if you're trying to create something that is sticky, um, and substantive and meaningful and behind all of that, right. It's trust and, and, and something real.
Um, and when we get to talk about in a minute, get to talk about. Brand and we get to talk about packaging and we get to talk about product. You know, a lot of that work sits there, right? It's like the choices you make in delivering something that Is about the product and [00:07:00] then let your consumer be the marketing.
Um, and so, we talked a lot about that in the beginning and we very much live that, ad Nécessaire. So today, listen, we're five years old. We stuck with up. Idea of the necessary less, but better the things we need to, for our health and wellbeing. We started in body and about a little bit more than a year ago, we launched scalp care as well.
Um, and we're just in a, you know, in a few retailers in a few markets. Um, and we feel really lucky to still be here and still be growing, uh, and be something,, from like a baby to a toddler and then from a toddler to a, to a teenager.
And we're sort of, we're on our way. Um, we
Juliet Fallowfield: Well, huge congratulations, because I mean, it is an incredibly crowded market. And as you know, coming from Lauder, you know, how many products launched a market every season, every week, you know, how retailers are being bombarded and buyers can't cut through, editors can't cut through. And I think that's what's so interesting.
The people I've interviewed for this season have all said that it's like, you have to [00:08:00] be so passionate about the product that you're creating is solving a problem and It's for a reason, you're not doing it just to make money and it's not ego led. And often I think people I've interviewed, I go to coworking offices.
I've interviewed lots of founders. We work with founders a lot to teach them how to do their own PR and messaging. It's, it's why, why are you doing this? You're going to work harder than you've ever worked in your life before. You've got to be so sure of that. Why you're passionate about doing it. And I love that, that you were saying that you, you thought of the problem you were solving before you then went into the weeds of all of the detail.
But when you look at your finished brand on your beautiful packaging and your website and the products that you, you offer and the ingredients included, you know, It's hard to kind of see that and not assume that it was always there because it's so beautiful. And like working backwards from that, it makes perfect sense now because you're like, well, body is important.
It needs to be necessary. We all live busy lives. And then you, you [00:09:00] see that completely translated in the branding and the packaging. It's actually my flatmate a year ago gave me one of your body washes and it was so beautiful. Delightful. The, the turning of the lid, the way all of the product came out of the tube.
There was no wastage, but the simplicity, it made my bathroom look good for me. That gave me great joy. And I was just like, this is gorgeous. And I hadn't heard about it before. And she introduced me to it and now I'm an avid fan. So congratulations, firstly, but. Because packaging is obviously a huge investment for any business to look into and a lot of clients we find get caught up in, we need to rebrand and they actually hide behind that rather than going out to market and just telling people what they're doing and getting out there and they spend a lot of time sitting on the packaging and it's like, it's not quite right, it's not quite right.
It's like, guys, no one's looking. No one's actually noticed that you exist yet, you haven't told anybody. So obviously I'm obviously pushing them forwards with comms and everything like that. But for you, like knowing the product you wanted to create and knowing the, um, sector you wanted to go [00:10:00] into, how did you tackle the first steps of creating packaging for this product?
Randi Christensen: think, um, I think one of the really important things is to have a sort Sort of a product design philosophy, a point of view on how you bring product to market. And because it's important to recognize that it all interplays, right? It's not just a packaging or just a formula, just , the choices you make.
And so, I'm deeply involved in every product. It's a big piece of what, what I do in the company today. And I very much look at, at design Juliet in sort of four, four ways. And I think about those four ways, uh, With With one lens only. And that is how can I deliver value? How can I deliver, you know, uh, efficacy to the consumer, deliver something that, uh, is a better customer experience.
[00:11:00] I think oftentimes, right, you can be like, uh, gosh, I want to develop, a retinol for the body. Uh, and you start there. I, start sort of in a different place, which is like, You know, customer backwards and reverse engineer from that. And so then we sort of look at design in four buckets. We look at it in how can we deliver efficacy and performance better than in formula.
How can we do it in, in, in, in scent? How can we do it in packaging? And how can we do all of that The last fourth quadrant in and with a footprint that's minimized Right. We we don't really talk about Um, I used to so I have to be very transparent here But I no longer use the word sustainability because after having gone into it with with great rigor I realize We're not sustainable.
The beauty business is not sustainable. The beauty category is not sustainable. We can be responsible at [00:12:00] best and
Juliet Fallowfield: if it makes you feel better, no business is sustainable because the second you turn on a laptop, you're using electricity. So
Randi Christensen: That's, that's, that's right. But it's a huge shift in how you design products, which is all right. So if I go , from sustainability to, to, to responsibility, I begin to think about, well, you know, really understanding, not on some superficial, sort of level what, what my footprint is, but really understanding it from plastic choice, glass choice, aluminum choice into how does that interplay with climate impact, uh, and, into other ingredient pieces.
And so, When you think about how can I be the most responsible? It means I recognize I have a footprint now. How big is it? What do I know about it? And how can I design around it? Um, and how can I also come back to it longer, you know, further down the line and, and, and keep improving it. Right.
Juliet Fallowfield: should mention I should mention
to listeners that your brand [00:13:00] is B Corp certified in 2022. It's 1 percent for the planet in 2019. You Climate Neutral Certified in 2019, you're Plastic Neutral Certified in 2021, and you've definitely looked in all of your materials and packaging and have gone through. You are doing your very best in the most.
It's probably one of the industries that need to be looked at the most. You are leading the way on trying to do your best, but it's very humble for you to admit that you aren't sustainable. But I think, as I said before, no one really is, but as long as
you're trying, you're trying to improve and move it in a direction that is the best possible way, given that we do need packaging and product,
Randi Christensen: Yeah, and that's right. And you know what, Juliet, what I think is most important is that transparency and the integrity and the dialogue, right? Because inside in our company, right, we went from a pledge to facts and facts and truth sets you free, right? And so once we began to [00:14:00] work on our, um, Climate certification, and we began to look at how do we measure this stuff and how do we come back to it.
We also began to find ways to minimize it. And that dialogue is way more interesting than setting some pledge that by 2030, we're going to do X, right? It's way more interesting to recognize I can do something. Small today, but cumulative over the years, every little micro decision leads to some pretty significant impact.
Um, and that's what we found of Nécessaire. So care for your body care for your planet. You hear us say that has. Has become so much more in our company. It's also why we all work. It's why we all come to work every day. It's our purpose. It becomes, it becomes, yeah, it becomes more than just selling something.
It becomes about making better care in a better way. And we all show up every day to do that. And it unite us as well. I want to just say one thing and then we can go back to packaging. [00:15:00] But This idea for, for anyone that's starting to, I think, creating any product really, where you sort of start with how do I enrich the customer experience so that that customer becomes my marketing is what inspires me.
That's what I spend all my time on. And so we do that in, scent. We do that in efficacy and formula. We do that in packaging and design, and we do that in. , I meant graphic design because everything is designed and we do that in, in, in the environmental stewardship that we set forward. These are sort of the
Juliet Fallowfield: your advocates.
Randi Christensen: They become our
Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah, and that repeat purchase. In fact, our previous guest was talking about the fact you can sell a thing to someone once, easily. It's when you get them to come back and buy the second time and you can scale and grow a business that way, that it is a necessary thing that they need in their life because they, that trust is built and that loyalty, especially in beauty is so important.
Um, but no, it's, it's fascinating because 15 years ago, I was working for [00:16:00] Chanel. I was taking an editor to Paris to meet a very senior person at Chanel for an interview. And I sat on the train with her. I was like, I do struggle with our jobs because it's such a luxury. And we're in this bubble and it's just product.
And we live in this lovely da da da da da gorgeous product. People can buy it. It's a price point and it's an echelon of society that can afford it. My sister in law works in a charity sector,
Randi Christensen: Mm
Juliet Fallowfield: me all of the incredible things that she's doing. And the journalist said to me, she's like, well, everyone needs escapism.
Everyone needs a moment to dream. And we have the luxury to provide them that moment. But the fact that you're able to do that moment, but with those brand values behind it as well, you are. Trying to be sustainable or more sustainable. You're being responsible. You're getting the best of both. So I think, you've worked out how to do it, that you, you come away with a job satisfaction of like, we've created a product that people love, but we aren't trying to deplete the planet further than we need
Randi Christensen: need to.
Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah. So again, massive congratulations.
Randi Christensen: Thank you. That's [00:17:00] really, that means a lot. And you asked me a question about packaging. How did we get started? I want to share that.
,I think, when you start a business, um, what I think I've learned is you have to hire the very best in, in every discipline of
Juliet Fallowfield: in a
Randi Christensen: what you do, and you always have to find people that are better than yourself, right?
Um, I think this is, one of the key things that when I look back at necessary success. It is a 150 percent not a singular person's contribution, right? It is a shared vision and everyone's stepping up to do their work. So in packaging, what we did is we went to a, um, very special, uh, graphic house.
In fact, we partnered with two graphic houses, one to kind of set forward our Graphic system in the brand and then another team [00:18:00] to translate that into. The individual products. And I think that was one of the best decisions we made because we, we went to somebody that had not done beauty before, right.
And we were like, or had done minimal beauty, right. Where we have a tendency as brands to be like, I want to go with who's done 6, 000 things I know, or, such, and I think Nick and I were like, no, no, let's go with somebody that just gets pop culture, that gets trend, that gets design, that has succeeded in ancillary categories and can bring that freshness, that newness to beauty.
And so we, did that and we worked for a long time, Juliet, on nailing our graphic point of view.
Juliet Fallowfield: When you say long, how long? Because I realize everyone's measurements are
quite
Randi Christensen: think, I think at maybe close to 12 months, uh, yes. So I think maybe nine, but around there, nine to [00:19:00] 12 months where we just repeatedly worked on this. And then from there, I'm not lying when I say we looked at, you know, we nailed our font, primary font, secondary font.
We then did about a hundred and between a hundred and a hundred and fifty iterations of design on bottle, uh, small bottle, big bottle, medium size bottle jar, um, like various expressions of the brand to then put that font system, that graphic choice into play on the pack and on a carton. Um, and. I think we still today I use significant amount of my time on the graphic expression in our brand um, and that
Juliet Fallowfield: because that, it could be so unrelated to beauty products, but it's your DNA. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Randi Christensen: It's our thing. Um, and some brands, you don't get, this is just if it matters to you, right? There are a tremendous amount of beauty brands that are [00:20:00] very successful without, um, that sort of crazy focus on graphics. But for us, it was important because, you know, Nick and I used to joke, we always used to say, listen, this is furniture for your bathroom.
These are like big, big, big bottles, right? This is just a different thing. And I think intuitively we understood that. Design was very much part of the value proposition alongside, uh, what's inside the bottle, like the performance that the product delivers to skin. There's also a, performance in design where it's just, it's a, it's a home object.
Um, and so, uh, we, care deeply about both. They nearly means the same. They get the same attention, the same resource.
Juliet Fallowfield: It's really hard for people starting businesses because I started mine four years ago when you have to learn all the other hats. So I came at it of, I know I've had 25 years experience in communications at a luxury level, but I don't know how to start a company [00:21:00] and I don't know how to employ someone.
I don't know how to fire someone. What are my business terms? All of that learning, but on top of the. Integrity of the execution of the actual work that you're going to do, it's a lot. And I think a lot of people say, people say, pay the very best people as much as you can afford,
who are better at it than you are, but you might not have a huge budget.
And from what I'm learning from you is that you cannot afford to cut corners on things like this because it won't
last.
Randi Christensen: think, yes, uh, on certain areas of the business, I think, uh, I think in 2020, I guess we launched really 2019 was our first full year in business, but, um, I think if we talk in beauty, in personal care, um, If we talk product, product to me is more important than ever. Integrity in product, trust in product, delivering something of value [00:22:00] in a sea of choices.
is everything. Um, and so yes, is my answer to your question in anything and everything that touches the product and touches the core of what your brand stands for and your brand integrity. Now, there might be other places because you just can't do everything a plus, plus, plus, just like you articulated.
It's exactly correct. So you have to, you have to sort of have this parameter, right? Of like, Where am I really close to the things that delivers true value to the person that I'm trying to serve? And, and that is the place where you invest, you invest your time, you invest your resources, you unite your people around that.
And then it becomes something, it gets heartbeat and it becomes the soul. And then there might be other things, right? Some companies. Would say, you know what? The [00:23:00] product is not as important to me. I'm more of a media company or a marketing company, and then that's what you give that same attention.
So I think it's impossible to give everything a triple A plus, but you have to get crisp on, you know, who you are, what you stand for, what your value system is and where that sits at the heartbeat of that. There are no cutting corners because then you, then you are nothing. Yeah.
Juliet Fallowfield: Because I, like you, was trained by luxury brands like Chanel, you do it 150 percent or you don't do it. That 99 is not good enough.
And the alumni that are friends that I have now from that wonderful training ground, we often talk about getting frustrated with people that haven't been trained in that way.
And it's like, Well, drop down to 120 percent from 150, they'll come in at 80, it's okay. But the two people I've recruited from a junior level in my business is like, I've created monsters, I'm so sorry, guys. And they, they get it. It's like, no, but we want to [00:24:00] operate at that standard and we like operating that standard.
And it's really hard because. I can see how many hats I'm wearing and even today I put something in my own calendar that no one else will see and there was a typo and I had to go back and change it. I was like, I could just let that go. Just let it go. I was like, Oh, but someone else said the second you start letting a few things go, the whole thing will unravel.
So I was just like, okay, but something, yeah, it's, it's learning where to delegate and learning where to bring in external resource. But for you, like going back to those agency partners that you found, how did you go about finding them and briefing them?
Randi Christensen: I think we, used our network and this is where to your point earlier, right? I think, um, It is a privilege to have, have grown up in the category, right. that we are in. And so I think between Nick and I, in many, many avenues of the products, whether it was the design agency or it was our lab or it was our wherever, um, we, were lucky to be [00:25:00] able to, to, to use our network and ask for recommendations and ask for help.
And I think that is a. That is a lesson in itself. I feel if there is one thing I've learned, uh, going out and starting a businesses, is you have to find the courage very early on to be like, listen, I'm just going to sort of send a LinkedIn out in the universe, or I'm going to, you know, reach out to my mentors, or I'm going to pick up the phone and call somebody and, and, and, and, and, you
ask And ask for help very
Juliet Fallowfield: podcast.
Randi Christensen: right?
Juliet Fallowfield: I'll start a broadcast, which is, which is phenomenal because you have great dialogue. And I'm sure you now get phone calls. And I'm the most happy of all to say, Hey, let me connect you with that person. Right? And I try to do that all the time. Pay it forward. Right? And
That community. Yeah, for
sure.
Randi Christensen: is, that is right.
There's room for all of us here. And, and, and I very much [00:26:00] believe that. And it's been hard to start this business. There's a lot of things that's been a privilege. There's also a lot of things that's hard, but what has been humbling, I think, is the amount of people that showed up to just help us, uh, in all avenues of the brand.
So that's what I would say is like, listen, if you want to be a product company, if you want to be a design first product first company, you I highly recommend getting a sort of a graphic system set up. I highly recommend going to packaging shows and getting inspired. I highly recommend finding a lab. And if you don't know where to go, you know, ping a founder through a DM on Instagram or via LinkedIn and say, Hey, could you help me?
And I find that so many people are just showing up, love to help you. How can I help you? Let connect you with that person. And it's just ask. You know, I think that's my biggest advice. Just go for it. And we've done that tons.
Juliet Fallowfield: What is interesting is I was thinking we've [00:27:00] both had careers before our startups and not to say we're battle worn, but we've had been through the ringer a few times and seen ups and downs of businesses and we've got networks of connections and I feel that I'm really grateful for that now because I also have nothing to lose as well and I think people starting businesses in their early careers who might not have had.
Sort of an annual review or a goal document or an employee crisis, the HR elements of a business, all of that experience is incredible. And I once, when I was traveling in New Zealand on my year out, that I saw, this thing on the back of a loo door in a hostel. It said experience is what you get after you've needed it.
But I think actually in this situation, the experience you can bring to your startup or know where to find experience to help you in your startup and putting your hand up to ask for help is always, always. A good thing for
sure.
Randi Christensen: is. I
Juliet Fallowfield: Um, with packaging, when was the point that you [00:28:00] knew that you'd nailed it? Or do you still iterate and tweak?
Randi Christensen: You know, it's so funny. Uh, a couple of months ago without naming names here, I was in a retail meeting and somebody said to me, Randi. I love and, and, and understand that, because I always say this, I love the iPhone strategy. The world doesn't need any more product, right? I like, I love coming back to like, okay, so, you know, doing, you know, X product five years later, there's a lot of things I can do better, right?
Because there's new tech, there's new ingredients, there's new everything. Um, but this particular retailer, which is a special retail relationship of ours, was like, Can we stop the tinkering? Because, because like the, the, the, the, the, and I, I say this with respect because we tinker a lot, we reiterate a lot, we come back to things a lot.
It's what we believe in. It was [00:29:00] actually in our sort of. DNA point of view and in our, in our brand equity deck that that was, you know, a discipline that we wanted to enforce in the company or, or sort of build and, and, and value. But there is this uh, relationship between.
Juliet Fallowfield: Yeah.
Randi Christensen: of retail and sales ops. Um, as it pertains to knowing, I oftentimes sit with design, we design We wrap it, we tape it up. We build it. We sometimes get a pre production sample in, and then we look at it, we photograph it, we shoot, we look at it in proximity to other products and in nine out of 10 times, there's something small we have to fix still.
And, and so it's, it's [00:30:00] rare, Juliet, that we just land it. Does that make sense? Like, right off the bat.
Juliet Fallowfield: Well, it's kind of seeing things in context, isn't it? We always say this with, I mean, it's a bad example, but seeing, um, when we're trying to do an Instagram post, we want to see it in situ in Instagram to see how it sits in context. And it's only then that you see the glaringly obvious typo. And a friend of mine the other day, she runs a fitness studio and she said for three years, We had a keyword in the poster in the gym spelt incorrectly, and it took three years of thousands of people coming through the door every week to someone to point it out and go, by the way, do you know there's a typo there?
You had to see it to believe it, and then you're like, oh, how did I miss that?
Randi Christensen: Totally. And, and, and you have to be humble enough to be like, shoot, I missed that. We just had an instance of that recently where it's like, Oh, we gotta, we gotta think about that. So I, I think, um, I think we do. Uh, and then I also think when, when [00:31:00] we've looked at it, And we're sort of a small little gang of people.
We've looked at it enough and we, we've sort of put it into context. We, we do try to land it and then comes the point in design, when you have to. Before I say this, I need to say that I'm not always the best at this, but it's something I'm really trying to learn, but you also have to say now it's landed
Juliet Fallowfield: Hmm,
Randi Christensen: and you have to be like, okay, so, so person A has an opinion, retailer B has an opinion.
There are so many point of views, right, that you can try to bring into that design process. And sometimes you have to be really careful with whom. You listen to. Um, and so that's what I'm learning now is like, okay, this decision sits in, in this ecosystem and this decision sits in that ecosystem and really be disciplined around that.
And like, yeah, okay, you [00:32:00] might have an opinion and just kind of smile and, and appreciated and, and and, and hear it and then move on. Not, not act on, not act on it. Knowing, saying no to a lot of things is, is really important. Um,
Juliet Fallowfield: it can be really empowering and I think there's a big difference between opinion and fact. So we do a lot of copywriting in our work for our clients and we write their PR angles and their tone of voice and their vision and
mission and all of their founder stories and we write and we write and we write and internally in the team, we always say there's three pairs of eyes that see something before they go out of the door, but we brainstorm together and, and we There's a difference between landing it with an opinion and landing it with fact.
Like if the factual comment in that sentence is wrong,
Randi Christensen: Mm hmm.
Juliet Fallowfield: But if everyone's got a different opinion, there's no right nor wrong. It's just like the majority rule of where does this land on brand? Like what's the most effective use of this copy? But that is really hard because it's, people are very passionate about their opinions, rightfully so, and they should be heard.
But at what point, [00:33:00] and is that quite a hard thing for you to do as the founder to be like, I'm drawing the line now.
Randi Christensen: I, I think, That's what I'm learning is I have this, this most remarkable team now. And for the longest time, I was too much of a, in the detail and, and, and now I'm trying to sort of stretch out of it. And I'm realizing that my number one job is to be the keeper of the vision and repeat that vision and reiterate it.
And. Again, and again, and again. And, um, I'm really trying to, I guess, find my place in that company. That's grown up a little bit more because you go from doing every little thing and the 6, 000 hats you just said to like, okay, now you have this remarkable talent, this great skillset, these people, um, and really you become the keeper of the vision.
And I think. Back to my time at Estee [00:34:00] Lauder. I, I, again, I had the privilege of working on two extremely successful brands. And yes, I, um, over time have gotten comfortable and confident in saying this is it and landing the plane, if you will, um, and, and, and it's really important because if you do not have that in the brand, a, the, the wind is constantly shifting, the brand looks different.
It's, it can be all over the map. You, you, I might even do it a little bit too much, Juliet. I'm like, no, it's not in the brand box. I've been very sort of firm on creating something,
Juliet Fallowfield: someone has to be, and I think where people come into a new business, they want boundaries. My team have said, like, I said, you can work flexibly. I don't care where or how or what you do. I trust you. It's like, well, we want to know what a good day at work looks like and we're entry level, so actually if it's nine to five or nine to six or whatever it might be, we know you, we've done right by you and actually having someone give them that containment where they can thrive.[00:35:00]
They, they told me anyway, they benefited from that, but there was me sort of 20 years on from then saying, Oh God, if I've got a boss that tells me where I can work, wherever that freedom is amazing, but I know more about what I'm technically doing and they're still learning. So I guess it all depends on the skill set within the team, but they, I think everybody likes leadership.
I would say they want to be having an environment where they can still be creative and not sort of process bound, but no. That they're doing the right thing by their employer, I would hope anyway.
Randi Christensen: I think, you know, I think that's very true and I guess what I'm, what I'm saying is that as necessary as now sort of turn five and And suddenly we, we, we have this sort of leadership team. All of them are better at what they do than I am. Right. And so what's interesting now is to frankly set them free to be leaders of their team and to be, and to, to, to own the brand.
And I very much now [00:36:00] find that I am. Uh, the product and the holder of the vision. In other words, like, yes, no. And like, let's go and, and make that as clear as I can. So they can operate. Um, you know, with their teams and that's been a shift for me and something I've had to really learn getting out of the details.
I'm, by the way, I'm not perfecting this yet. I'm still working on it, but like, how do I, how do I get out of that? And I didn't feel that when I was at Estee Lauder the same way. It's like very different when it's your brand and it has your name on it and you raise the capital and you do all the use.
Juliet Fallowfield: Well, and also you're responsible for their salaries. So you want to keep it successful so they still have jobs and that responsibility
Randi Christensen: that's right.
Juliet Fallowfield: make a few people fully anxiety and panic a little bit and actually letting them be brilliant and letting them thrive and they can come to you when they need to is incredible.
Has it got easier with the packaging and the iterations and the growth of the business with the [00:37:00] new products coming in? And has the packaging decisions got easier?
Randi Christensen: You know, it's easier when it's gosh, we're launching body washes in about a month and it's the same bottle in a different scent. My gosh. I mean, that's like, that's like a love fest. We're like, we know what to do. And then, and then there are times like, uh, recently we launched a soap bar and we had to design a paper wrap and a.
And it took, I think, Courtney and I, who, whom I deal with this with, and Sam, it took us months. I mean, because it was just like, ah, it's a new form. It's a new system. It's a new medium, right? And so the answer is yes in half the instances and no in the other half, because it's a new white piece of paper, a new design challenge.
But it is, it is easier. There's a lot more. We've messed up now that we know, okay, let's stay away from that. We, we, we, we tried that. Um, so that's, that's been, that's been really, really interesting for us, but [00:38:00] we, um, we also love this stuff. I'm making it sound like, like, this is like a privilege to, to build these products and we, we, we, we, we love it very much, but big advices. Find, like, invest in the very best graphics system, invest in the very best formulas. These things will not do you wrong, right? These are the things people fall in love with. These are the things, um, that, that that's what you sell if you're in consumer goods. Um, so that, that matters and then try to do it really responsibly.
That's what we do as well. It's a big work stream in our company, accountability for our choices.
Juliet Fallowfield: but that in itself is a huge investment, especially in a new business because it takes more time. I mean, we, as a B Corp as well, are learning so many other things about so many other things. And I did it because I wanted that big brother to be able to, you know, Sort of tap me on the shoulder and be like, yep, you are legitimate and help my imposter syndrome.
But also it taught me so much about areas of HR that I didn't know [00:39:00] I didn't know. And, but it takes time and effort and I spent a good four months at the beginning of last year. Being everything, the core and was so relieved when we got it. Cause I just thought, God, the amount of time I put into this, if we don't get it, is that a waste?
I was like, no, cause I've actually learned loads anyway. So that's fine. As long as my brain's learning, I'm good, but it was a really nice stamp of approval, but obviously you can't sit on your laurels. You have to keep progressing and you set the standard because you have to beat that standard the next time, which is absolutely how it should be.
But I think the time investment, when you've As I said, got all these other things, but the joy of doing it from the beginning, or when you're relatively new, is that shifting a tiny Titanic is much easier than a massive one. And if you've built some systems that you then have to undo and then rebuild, there's much more work later on.
So why not just learn at the beginning and do it from the day one, and then it's much easier just to integrate and roll out. Um, The right thing to do, which obviously helps you sleep at night. Um, is there anything you would [00:40:00] go back and do differently when it comes to your packaging journey?
Randi Christensen: Um, Um, No, I think. I think, um, I don't think so. Juliet, I'm sure there are, like, I, I think there are many, many things in, in, in the company's journey that when I look back, you, you know, and you know this, you just said it. Every little micro decision right, leads up to what you become, right?
And, and, and what your brand is in product, in marketing in. HR in every discipline of the company, but I think, um, as it pertains to packaging, I think it's one of our pillars in the company that I feel incredibly proud about what the team has accomplished here. And I, I wouldn't have changed much. I think what I've learned from the footprints journey.
Um, you know, we were 1 percent for the planet year one. As you shared, we were climate neutral year one. I think there are things [00:41:00] I've learned. That's a perfect example is no tube in the United States is recyclable, you know, also not aluminum tubes, right? I might have done some tactical things differently, not started in a tube, right?
Because I just was told something different. And then I learned the fact by by doing the hard work. And so all those things that you learn through your footprint work, right? You know, I learned aluminum in general is very tough on the climate pillar of your brand, right, because it's different to produce.
So all the interrelatedness of, of, of better care made in a better way, the better way piece, the less of a footprint piece. I think there are incremental learnings that I've had that I would probably have made some other packaging choices up front. Right. But that's natural. That's part of it. Um, and they're not so obvious, and they're never obvious to the consumer, because the consumer is like, [00:42:00] plastic is bad.
Most plastic is, but a lot of aluminum is too. Glass can be too. When you look at the full footprint of a company, of a product, right? You're shipping it around, and all the things, and all the, the, the, the sort of life cycle assessment. It's in that area I would tell you that I'm getting good. I think smarter by the day that then informs what would I do differently or what can I do next perhaps is better.
Um, but not on, not in quality, not in integrity, not in trust in product, not in design. Um, I think we, we were lucky to find the very best partners here and, and, and the team is pretty strong here. So I, I've, I feel very good about that aspect of the brand.
Juliet Fallowfield: Well, unlike a tracks like you've set the tone of how the business is going to operate and people, you know, we're very fortunate we've got B Corp, but actually it's not fortunate. It's hard work. It's
just, we got it.
Randi Christensen: yeah, we both did. And, and you know what,[00:43:00]
Juliet Fallowfield: Hmm.
Randi Christensen: of this work and I was, I was lucky to have them work on it because I think And I, gosh, I mean, all footprint, it's a big part of the job. Like you just said, it's just, it's a tremendous amount of work, but what I also love is to get the full org into it because it becomes a way of, of comes an approach to, to, to your business and, and, and necessary, right?
When you name yourself the necessary, then
Juliet Fallowfield: the trickle down effect, they are thinking, okay, we don't need to send a courier. We can walk that around the corner or
Randi Christensen: that's right.
Juliet Fallowfield: every little detail. And when you scale, I think that's what I found interesting. We, we're sitting at four or five people and actually any bigger gets quite uncomfortable because you can't, I can't have that many one to ones with that many people or what is the cost of that when you get bigger?
But if you ask. Spedding in from the beginning and everyone's thinking the same way. And when I said like attracts, like [00:44:00] they are coming to work for you because they like your brand values as an employer, that then will go through and your work is not done, it never is done, but it's being done by other people, which is
Randi Christensen: That's totally it. And they'll hire like for like, like to like to, right. So it becomes this way of being this, this approach to your business. So I love, I love that. And congrats on B Corp. It is, it's a thing.
Juliet Fallowfield: It's a, it's a lot, but it's great. And actually we've had candidates apply to us because we're B Corp. So that for me is everything. Um, something that we do is the guest from the previous episode has a question for the next guest. And it was actually Aaron Chatterley from Feel Unique and his new brand Indoo.
Um, fascinating talking to him about, um, brand voice.
And his question for you was, he said, where's, when you're a serial entrepreneur, and he cringed when he said that, it's like, I'm not, but I kind of am, I have to admit it, I keep doing new businesses. When you have so many ideas all the time, when is it you know that that is the [00:45:00] idea that you have to see through into a new startup?
When that itch is so significant. You have to scratch it. You don't let it go. When did you know in this business, it was this idea that you had to see through?
Randi Christensen: I think once we named it, the name for us was
Juliet Fallowfield: Gave it life.
Randi Christensen: gave it life and became a filter for everything we do. It's the, it's the product philosophy. Ingredient philosophy, it's the footprint responsibility philosophy. It's, it, it became like, this is, this is a big idea because it's like the necessary, is this necessary?
Is this product necessary? Is the conversation necessary? Is this meeting necessary? Whoa. We just, I think we just knew we looked at each other and we were like, We started with necessary, and then we were like, I think Nécessaire, um, I think Nick said neNécessairef the [00:46:00] French way is a little bit prettier, right?
And we were like, that's it. And we just both, Knew it. And I think it became that, was it's like the color of your front door. You know what I mean? It's like, boom, there it is. And we knew we wanted to do something. And from that moment, we just did not look back and it's never been a question mark.
It's never been a, is that, is that the right thing? It just is. We just both knew. Um, and so that was our moment of, we had an idea and it just became, it became necessary and it became a thing. Became real.
Juliet Fallowfield: And would you have a question for our next guest and it could be anything about starting or scaling a business, anything at all?
Randi Christensen: I think being a brand person, being a product person, I think the question I would have is what is your best advice to anyone starting a business in 2024? On how to learn how to sell your product.
Juliet Fallowfield: I'm writing this down.
Randi Christensen: And that is a big [00:47:00] one because you can build a product, but you also have to get it into the ecosystem and you have to sell it. And you have to, as you said earlier, you have to sell product number two. What are the tactics? What are the, what are the starting with a strategy? What's the strategy and what are the tactics and what are the tools and what's the, toolbox and the help that that person would share, would share with, with, with one of us, the next generation of brand founders.
Right.
Juliet Fallowfield: It's so interesting, someone said, and given there's been a hundred episodes, I can't now remember which one, but someone
said to me, whether you like it or not, whatever your craft service business is, 80 percent of your job is sales. And the times I've worked with founders and they've struggled the most is when they just want to be the creator and they don't want to do business.
They don't want to do sales.
They don't want to
do HR. And I was like, you, you can't just sit in a corner and do that thing that you're brilliant at because no one's going to come and buy it and without Revenue, you don't have a [00:48:00] business and without a business, you can't go and do that thing that you really want.
And it's heartbreaking because they're like, I don't make me sell myself. Because we pitch tech, well, teach them how to pitch themselves to Jenna. So it's sales without the commission, but it's like, people have to know you exist to then give you their money.
Randi Christensen: Yes, that's exactly it. And I think that advice on many of us come from the other side of the house. And how do you, how do you break through in that area is, is a, is a great, uh, we didn't talk about that today, but it's a. It's, I feel what I've learned is, is, is you have to learn how to sell, learn how to sell.
Like you have to learn that on top of everything else. And, and, and as the steward of your company, you have to understand how that happens.
Juliet Fallowfield: Absolutely. Absolutely. I love that question and I cannot wait to ask the next person because for me this year it's been very much like, how do we look after our pipeline? Like, I'm very fortunate that people have referred. Inbound and I was like, that's not a tap that I can turn on and off. Like it is [00:49:00] a good business owner.
I want to know that we are protected to a certain extent. So that sales part is like, yes, my team can make me go to a hundred events and I'll meet a thousand people. And then the conversion rate is X, but it's like, how do we do this without me? is it possible? Isn't it
Randi Christensen: How do you scale? How do you scale right that? And that that does have to go probably beyond you and beyond me and beyond the team. I get it. It's that it's sort of that domino effect that that's an important thing to get underneath.
I think.
Juliet Fallowfield: I've just seen the time and I'm sure you have a hundred other meetings to go to, but thank you so much for your time.
I've loved this conversation. And I mean, my God, I look at your website and it's like drool worthy. It's delicious. So
Randi Christensen: you so much.
Juliet Fallowfield: all of the.
Randi Christensen: And I, Juliet, I love what you're doing. Congrats on this and, for helping folks, right? Sharing knowledge is, is important. Um, and if there is an entrepreneur coming through that you want to send my way, let me know. Be [00:50:00] happy to share anything of, meaning for
Juliet Fallowfield: Amazing. That's really kind. Thank you so much. Awesome. I'll
Randi Christensen: Be well.
See you soon. Bye bye.
Juliet Fallowfield: Bye.
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