Resilience: a Journey Through Trauma to Intentionality with Guest Somiah Lattimore

Join Tina and Serena this week as they are joined by Somiah Lattimore, entrepreneur, investor, community builder and for our purposes a survivor of childhood trauma.  Please listen in to this story of resilience, one in which the Mental Health Mamas help listeners understand that survivors are to be believed, supported and to never feel alone.  Listen in!

www.somiah.com

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Transcript

Serena:  Hey everyone, I'm Serena, 

Tina:  and I'm Tina, and we are the Mental Health Mamas.

(Music)

Serena:  Welcome to No Need to Explain. We're so glad you're here.

Tina:  First, as always, a quick disclaimer.

Serena:  We come to not as mental health professionals or experts in the field, but rather, as parents with lived experience who are on a mission to normalize the conversation around mental health.

Tina:  If you or someone you love is experiencing a mental health crisis, please seek professional support.  You'll find a variety of resources in our show notes and on our website, www.noneedtoexplainpodcast.com. 

Tina:  We love to have guests on the podcast to are complex and to be fair, many of us wear many hats.  Right, Serena?  Many of us wear many hats,

Serena:  Yes, we certainly do, yes.

Tina:  So our guest today is definitely one of those people, and I've gotten to know her through the years I've lived here in Richmond, Virginia.  Serena, give us a little bit of her bio, as it appears in some of the interweb space.

Serena:  Mm-hmm, sure. Somiah Lattimore is an innovative award-winning executive with nearly 20 years of successful leadership experience in the private sector and higher education.  She is a proven mission-driven community,

coalition builder with an outstanding record of attaining and delivering over $2.5 million in grant-funded research.  And this is a huge bio, and I don't want to mess any of it up,  so Somiah, would you mind sharing a little bit more about yourself?

Somiah:  Yes, thank you, and thank you both for having this conversation

together.  So I actually joined the University of Richmond in 2021, and I'm proud to have been the founding director for the Creativity Innovation Entrepreneurship

Initiative based in our provost office, which is a really rare opportunity for folks like me in higher ed.  And I'm excited that within six months of joining the University

we're able to secure a million-dollar gift to support that work.  And prior to that, and you see this in the work I do at Richmond is that I care very deeply about the Commonwealth of Virginia, where I grew up, and I have spent a lot of time in raising grant funding for different support organizations for startups or innovation, and raising money and building out curriculum, developing award-winning curriculum, and doing what I can to create high paying jobs for the Commonwealth.  I have been a co-founder for several companies spanning consumer package goods to high growth technology companies, including several that have been sold, and now serve on the board of advisors for a couple startups.  And then internationally, I've been recognized as a design educator, largely in the creative space.  So design and software and UXUI development and won several awards locally, regionally, Virginia, as well as nationally, and got my undergrad from Radford University, and then my master's of fine arts from there as well, and then went on later on to complete a master's. Initially, it was going to be a PhD. I was out there for the shooting, oddly enough, and rolled that into a second master's. And I really care a lot about, in my work in the community and my work on campuses, about what does it look like to empower individuals with skills that are human centered,

or they can have a change in areas they care deeply about?

Tina:  Yeah, I love that.  And it is fascinating to watch your work.  It's very experiential and very community-based.  And I really love that.  And this is all incredibly impressive.  I do love that.  You're an incredible asset to our university community.  Super impressive, but that is truly not why I invited you here today.

So you are someone I've connected with on campus on a deeply personal level.

We've had some opportunities to have some heart to hearts.  And one, I remember in particular,  and I won't mention exactly which one that was.  But it was, when I first learned about some of the things you're going to share today, just I find people fascinating.  And I have just felt this deep connection with you.  Do you remember when we were first met?

Somiah:  I remember you were really sweet because I needed some plants.

Tina:  And I had an abundance of plants.  And I was like, I don't know who wants all these plants.

Somiah:  And you were eager for plants.  And I was eager for plants.  And we were like, Oprah, you get a plant.  You get another plant, you get another plant.

And I take, those plants are my babies.  I take very big and that plant care very seriously.

Tina:  Well, I love that.  And I'm glad they're still living.  So awesome.

So welcome to the podcast, first of all.  And yeah, so I have gotten to know your family, who I love dearly, and you have this amazing story of resilience.  And that is kind of what I really want to talk about today on the podcast.  We talked about that.

I don't know, probably like eight months ago.  And here we are finally getting to it.

Because we're busy people, right?  

Somiah:  You're right.

Serena:  Yeah.  And we just met a moment ago.  So I don't know you in the same way that Tina does.  And clearly, our listeners don't either.  So I'd love for you to tell me a few things  that myself and our listeners might not know,  might want to know about you, or maybe the better question  is, you have all those fancy credentials.

But who are you as a person?  

Somiah:  Ooh, that's a loaded question.  Now, things that people come to know about me really quickly are that I have three really fun, lovely, vivacious little girls that I'm very proud of.  And I intentionally am in their life and try to influence who they'll become in the future.  And I have a really good look in husband.  It reminds me a lot of Magnum PI.  And I'm a slightly unhealthy obsession with Magnum PI.

And I grew up on the Eastern Shore Virginia as a kid, but I really grew up as an adult

and then you were a valley.  So one of the things I love about living in Richmond

is that I'm between my two homes.  And we love being on the Chesapeake Bay

and trying to have my feet grounded physically in the earth as much as I can.

And my oldest violet, that Tina knows, says, my mama doesn't like a lot of people,

but the people she likes, she likes a lot.  And I think it's something that I'm really proud of as a person and folks get to know that pretty quickly about me that once we're in it, we're in it for the long haul.  

Tina:  I often tell that to my children, you don't have to have a lot of people in your life, but you need your people.  T

Somiah:  That's right, you need your people.

Tina:  So let's dive into your life.  Your life, you're growing up.  And I will warn people that this is hard.  It's gonna be hard for some people to hear.  Might be a little triggering and it's important to talk about, right?  Like here on the podcast, we talk about hard things because we wanna normalize them.  You are not the only one, we never want others to feel alone.  And so the things that you'll talk about

might be hard for some people.  And if you are triggered, please take good care of yourself because it is important.  We will share information on how to connect later on if you're so desire and that'll be important.  But no matter what, take good care of yourself.  But Somiah tell us a little bit about your young life and the trauma that you experienced. 

Somiah:  Yeah, so I grew up, as I mentioned, on the Eastern Shore, Virginia.

And my father had immigrated over from Palestine. and I was the middle, the Oreo filling of nine kids or peanut butter and jelly, if you don't like Oreos, that's okay.

And when I was nine years old, so my, actually, excuse me, seven years old, when my mother left.   And I didn't really understand why.  I don't know that I really remember her leaving.  But I remember that she was gone.  And something actually I didn't share with you, Tina.  And this is, you have things that you tell and then you realize, oh man, there was this other crazy thing that happened.  There was a period, so seven years old, you're roughly in the first grade.  There was a period between first grade and fourth grade.  So I had actually been taken away by my mother.  She took my sisters and I.  We came to school, picked steps that were going a little trip.  And I realized that it was the one time that she tried to get us all out.  And then returned.  And I remember we went to school in Tazuel, Virginia

and moved in with my aunt and uncle.  And this real, you know, little rural town.

I didn't really understand it,  but I thought it was really cool.  And I remember feeling really safe.  And I remember not being excited about going back home to the Eastern Shore, but also not really understanding why.  And then all of a sudden, she was gone again.  And then I fast forward to being in the fourth grade.  And I'm unloading it, it's such a visceral memory.  I remember unloading groceries with my sisters, when my father at this point had sold his most recent motel in the Tocamoke area on the lower Maryland Eastern Shore.  And he built this four story beautiful home wraparound porch, huge mansion on the Chesapeake Bay.  And we had about a mile long dirt driveway.  And I remember seeing all of these lights

reflecting in the kitchen on, you know, reflecting off the water and being like,

these blue and red lights.  And we look out in the front door and there are more than a dozen.  No kid exaggeration.  This is real life.  Police cars barreling up the driveway and sirens blowing and lights flashing  and having no idea what was going on.  I remember looking at my father's face and seeing that he was scared.  And that was pretty terrifying because you don't often see your dad scared.  And I'd never seen him shaken, like uncomfortable.  And I didn't know what was going on, but I remember them sitting us down and a woman social worker coming in and she had long bleached white hair really long.  And her separating my sisters and I and asking us about our experience.  Living in our home and where we safe and not our dad ever done anything bad to us.  And, you know, and I remember being like, you know, very defensive.  No, and everything's okay.  And can you pack a bag for a night?

And so a night turns into being in a stranger's home  after being in social services

until one or two in the morning to living when someone's home for a month that I didn't know.  And then they were turned back to our family and all of a sudden there was this lawyer coming in preparing us for trial and not understanding what that meant.  And people are going to ask you what, you know, your dad got anything bad to you and so and so forth.  And ultimately what happened over several years

was that my father ended up being sentenced to jail for sexual abuse and physical abuse by a family member.  Excuse me, accused against a family member had accused him and so he was convicted and tried and sent away.  And I remember, you know, going out and visit him and in prison out in Stanton and back and forth

and then all of a sudden the visit stopped.  And there became a shift in our family dynamic where each of us was realizing that maybe that thing that he was put away for was real.  And because he was no longer there to be fearful of telling the truth or not even knowing that you weren't telling the truth because you didn't know what you were or weren't supposed to say because your kid and you have no clue any of this stuff is.  Realizing that it wasn't just the family member those things that happened to for myself and other family members, all of us being like yeah me too.

And one after the other, me too, me too.  And trying to figure out what life was gonna look like.  And then from that point, you know,  from nine years old to 16 years old, living with more than a dozen families.  And so that was anything from being in a foster home from that an average of 18, you know, between 18 and 24 months to living with a family for a summer, living with family members of my own for a summer, living with family members that I didn't know, that I met for a weekend and all of a sudden was living with them for a summer, living with older siblings that were trying to figure out their lives and take care of us and just being bounced around a lot, but also not knowing really why.  And then fast forward to my adult years learning that there were more family members coming out saying, oh, there was, you know, I had the same experience and him being re-arrested and then that resulting in a trial that was thrown out.  And then coming to find out several years later that he was trying to, you know, being tried again by another family member and ultimately sentenced, you know, and in Richmond in 2015 when it began and he was sentenced, let's say about 18 to two months, excuse me, 18 months to two years later, two life sentences.  And then actually just learning recently last weekend that he had been released on compassionate care, I think is what it's called.  

Tina:  Because he said, I was that what you're saying.

Somiah:  I mean, he's an old man.  And frail, I don't really know.  To be honest with you, I'm interested.  Came up and I was like, are you kidding me?  Like, wasn't that long ago?  He was doing, not only, it was one family member that had came out after he had been released that he was sexually abusing and violently and adult family member.  This isn't no longer a kid.  And then another family member after that was, thrown out, came forward probably six years afterward and said, hey, listen, there were some things I remember and never got my day in court.  And I need for reconciliation to see this through.  And that's when he was sentenced to the two years.  And so that's just over 10 years ago.  And I don't really know the details of the compassionate care, I just found it out.  But I thought, I don't know, he's not, I don't know, he's not threatening more, guys.  But I'm not the, if I had known, I would have definitely gone in and spoken up.  And so it was sort of weird to feel like, well, how are we not notified?  Yeah, it was quite bizarre.

Serena:  So like, it's hard to imagine a childhood, like yours, obviously would affect you profoundly.  And here you are, a successful, resilient human being.  So I'm curious, you said you were sort of bounced around homes until 16.  What happened between like the age of 16 and now that helped you kind of get up out of this?

Somiah:  I mean, I can't even, I can't even get into imagine.  Oh, what happened?

So I lived with a family when I, when I was 16, I was asked to leave a family because I had shared that there was abuse going on between a member of their family toward me.  It didn't believe me when I told my social worker, she had my back and she pulled me out.  And they didn't want me there either.  Which, yeah, that's okay.

And I remember being moved in for a night was supposed to be for a night in with where my sister, a sister of mine had been living. And, you know, I knew how to go.

Here's another temporary.  And I really didn't know what to expect.  I was just sort of over at that point and exhausted from the summer I'd had of this abuse.  And ended up staying with them and living with them through college.  And ultimately, I would say for myself, I went away to college and I had a feeling that there was this, you know, when you're in foster care and I'll say for myself.  And when you, the experiences that I had, I sort of began to very quickly since that I had an expiration date.  And it wasn't like a plant, you get a clip in and you make a new plant. It was like, I'm going to expire.  And then I'm going to have to be reshelved or something,

you know what I mean?  Because I don't know how else to describe it.  So I kind of was used to every two years something switching in my life of where I was living.

So when I turned 18, my foster family at the time said, you know, you can stay, if you stay in the system, you may be able to leverage some Pell grants and some other things that might be worthwhile.  And I wouldn't say that it felt transactional,

but I can't tell you that I ever fully felt like I was really a part of the family.  It may have been me, it may have been the environment.  But I did get to a point as an adult when one of my family members, you know, had the trial that ultimately led to his two life sentences.  Where there was some just some betrayal on some things

that I'd gotten to being adult and said, I don't want that in my life.  I, you know, I had a lot of times where I wasn't able to choose and now I can, but really what turned me around was I met when I was in graduate school at Radford University.  I met someone who was 53, he had sold his shares in an advertising company. I was 23 and he was really kind of the first male figure that I could talk to, like you might talk to a dad.  So we talked about football.  We went to dinner once a week and we talked about art and design and we talked about life and my experience and my upbringing and it called me on a lot of crap when I wasn't pulling my weight at school and it wasn't afraid to call me on it.  Whereas in my prior families,

I had a lot of really strong men with really strong Christian values that would have tough conversations.  But I think there was an element of maybe never fully acknowledging the trauma that I had had.  There was one instance where a family,

the foster father had said, when I mentioned the abuse by, you know, that happened in one of the foster families and said, well, if that's what really happened.  And I was like, I've heard that enough as a kid and I can speak up.  Like I've been through enough abuse that I know I'm not making this up.  And I think I just got to a place where I started to realize that I had to kind of let go of the fact that I wasn't gonna have family as I had dreamed and began to make my own family and my friends growing up on the Eastern Shore, you know, it's the kind of place where you go to kindergarten and graduate high school together with the same class and their parents were my family and they are still my family now and I made similar relationships in college.  But I also screwed up a lot.  I had a pretty wild experience in college and I was figuring out who I was and testing a lot of boundaries.  And then ultimately, you know, one of my sisters completely saved my life.  I was in a really abusive relationship in North Carolina and I said, I'm just waiting for something to happen because that's what I was used to.  Wait for something to happen.  When you aim to get out of a situation and she said, what are you waiting for?  Like what's the bad thing?  Am I supposed to get a call from 911 or something?

What are you waiting for?  And within 24 hours, I was out of that environment and started to slowly realize that I did have ownership and I was allowed to make choices.  What went quite good at it yet?  And went through another four year abusive relationship after that almost got married.  And then finally, I was like,

this is not, I can't do this.  And it was what the intervention there was actually the foster family I lived with.  When they finally said, if you break this off,  it's okay and it was the first time that I really ever felt like I was their kid.  And I was almost 30 years old and I had lived in their home visiting during holidays and stuff.  And from 16, that's 15 years where I finally was like, oh, you care?  Like I really, it was shocking.

Tina:  Yeah, and so I, yeah, so yeah.

Somiah:  And no, and then, you know, and fast forward to meeting my husband

and being where I am now, but it never, that trauma kind of never really stopped.

Tina:  So so much of what you're saying is so, it just so resonates, right?  I think you talk about being rooted in chaos, right?  Which I think is very, and I don't wanna say it's comforting, but it's what is the norm, I think, for kids who are in foster care, right?  And I wanna kind of shift a little bit and highlight the fact that part of I think

what Serena's question to you was and is super important to highlight for our listeners is that I think something that, well, we know it's the antidote, right?

It's the thing that makes the biggest difference with trauma is safe, stable, caring relationships. And what it sounds like is that 53 year old person who, as you said, called you on your crap, right? That person was one of those people.  And then this family who you finally were able to accept that, we love you for whoever you are,

whatever decisions you make with this person, if you decide that this isn't the thing,

we're okay with that, and you could accept that.  And so I think the idea that these safe, stable, caring people in your life do make a huge difference.  So I love that you've highlighted that and I am gonna honor what I would call the windy path

because people take windy paths in their lives, right?  And that's the way that, I mean, we never get a guarantee in life, we don't know what we get and we make the best choices we know how to make.  We always say that to our parents, right, Serena?  It always just make the best choices you know how to make.  So I wanna shift that into you, as I have said,  I love these three little people who aren't so little anymore, but I'm always gonna think they're little cause they're so cute.  

Somiah:  I know.

Tina:  They're strong and I don't wanna just say they're like these cute little girls because they are lovely, but they're also super smart and they're strong little people

and just amazing.  And you are very just intentionally raising these people with your husband to be amazing.  And so I wonder what nuggets you can share with people

about that intentional parenting after all that trauma that you experienced?

Somiah:  Well, first of all, I need a sound bite of that for the time is that I don't feel like I am.  And it's so sweet of you to say and I, you're actually the first person that has ever told me that I that you acknowledged the intentionality.  And I was like, wow, I do, no one's ever said that to me.  No one's ever said to me, I see you doing this on purpose because I am.  And I, when they were younger, like we have an older little girl, Violet is 10 and the twins are seven.  So when they were little, we were straight up surviving because it's too hard. It wasn't until, I think the thought of Violet maybe having the sleepover or maybe sleep sleeping in a room with a cousin or someone else that we maybe saw a lot.  But you don't, yes, you know them, you love them that you don't have the regular relationship and realizing how people parent and their children may not be the same way you parent, their, you know, your own.  But I remember asking my husband, I was like, listen, if we're gonna go where we're sharing a room with someone or our child is sharing over with someone, you and I gotta be on the same page because the abuse that I experienced was, I remember my youngest memory, a very visceral abuse from my father that I was between turning four and five years old.  And I remember, you know, horribly that experience. And I remember the thankfulness when the creek of footsteps behind my door would keep going down the hall and holding your breath when they didn't.  And I remember, you know, the trauma when I tell you is kind of crazy, it'll feel like it's supposed to be some wild movie.  My, our father actually burned our house down for insurance money when I was seven years old.  And, and then, you know, we got quickly, our mother left and then we're in trials.  And I remember telling my husband, the trauma that I experienced by the time, at this point, you know, was then by then Violet’s age, was having already been raped by my father.

My house burning down when my sisters was dying in that fire and then being split up and put in foster care.  And so you have to have my back that my childhood is not your childhood.  And the things I'm scared of, our children experiencing, thankfully you have no clue what that means, you cannot question me.  And that was really, I think, harder for him because you sound a little unhinged because it is such, it's so not identifiable when you have grown up where your friends maybe didn't have those experiences or people in your, your community or family didn't have those experiences or maybe if they did, they weren't talked about.  So it was a bit of like out of left field for him although he knew it.  I don't know that either one of us realized it would ever surface with children.  So I think that the intentionality

really came from, all right, she has to be able to know that it's okay to speak up

but he has to also be okay to hear it.  And so it's a little bit coaching to him.  All right, we're gonna talk in about body parts in what their, what their real names are.

We're not using cutesy little language.  When they're, when we're going to someone else's house, we're gonna openly say, this is how we discuss things.  People don't want our kids spend the night, that's fine.  We're gonna have safe words and code words and we're gonna talk before and after we go places and putting some of those guardrails up but really, I didn't even understand how much my husband would need to be educated.  And I would say he's had my back the whole time.

I think it's really surprised him even as we've been married for almost 13 years

that how much of an education he's still getting because they're still hitting milestones where trauma was still happening in my life at their ages and reminding him just because by let's 10 and the twins are now seven, remember what I told you when she was seven and now they are what was going on and why these conversations are important.  And then I would say the last part of that is

been very honest with my kids to the point that friends of mine are like, I can't believe you share this with them and I share these appropriate ways but I told my husband, we make a pact, we don't lie, I don't care what the question is.  You tell him the truth, if you have to draw a picture, if you find a YouTube video,

you have to ask a friend is in, you know, psych, so you don't screw it up.

We tell them the truth no matter what the question.  And they have, you know, that they get it.  And I think that's part of where that honesty and then being maybe so comfortable in their skin because they're seeing me also becoming comfortable

in my skin and so I'm modeling for them as I'm learning it, what they're, you know,

where I hope that they can have their own voice in the future.

Serena:  And those things you just shared too, so you just feel like really solid advice

in terms of parenting young children.  

Somiah:  Yeah, I mean, it served us well so far. I don't know if you're 16, might.

Tina:  And just to say, Serena's a reasonable expert on this, she teaches parenting classes.

Serena:  I do, it's true.

Somiah:  Oh my gosh, I do wonder, I've often thought like, what would it have looked like to have had parenting classes to have done this the right way? 

Serena:   I mean, I,  well, here's the secret, there's no right way.  

Somiah:  Oh, that's good to know.  That's good to know.  Let me off the hook, so I appreciate that.

Serena:  Yeah, so let's talk about you and what you do for yourself.  I mean, we like to talk on the podcast often about how we care for ourselves.  The self-care gets such a bad rap.  Nobody likes that word.  But we also know that we do have to take care of ourselves.  So tell us what you do.

Somiah:  Oh, boy, this one may not be a good answer.  It's just the truth.  You know, I shared in Tina knows this about me.  I'm gonna open book sometimes, one of my foster dads said,  you know, you're absolutely honest.  I don't know how I was reminded of it.  I think when I finally realized that when I told the truth,  somebody would listen and I was like,  well, there's nothing to keep track of.

And so you're getting the truth.  What do you like or not?  I'm just not coming out so pretty.  I really, I really, you know, through college, I did not take care of myself.

I was very self-destructive.  I would say I didn't really start taking care of myself

until after I had kids, and I would say, and being an entrepreneur, you know,

because of the background that I had, you know, risk is not scary to me,

because I've already dealt with a lot.  Like nothing else is really that scary.

And so startups and businesses and when things fail or they're, you know, sold and successful, yada yada.  You know, those things were easy in the sense of it wasn't scary.  It was more the not knowing how to conduct myself as a human, like really being a functional human.  And then it's all jokes aside, like really being very self-destructive.  But if I didn't know who I was, because who I was changed every 18 months, two years sometimes this summer, and you're a chameleon, you don't wanna get kicked out.  So you will be and do whatever you need. And then finally trying to figure out who you are, you're unscrewing years and not doing very good at it.  And then finally having some freedom.  And I'd say this, I had some things this year that were pretty challenging, career-wise.  And I ultimately, about three or four months ago, I had a panic attack.  I woke my husband up at four, three in the morning.  And I said, I think I'm having a heart attack and I had a panic attack that lasted four and a half hours.  And so I said, I need you to sit here because I know this is all mental.  But I had something that happened that was triggering for me how I've been treated by men in my life.  And then I thought I was done dealing with.  And I just unloaded on him.  He sat in this chair that I'm looking at for four and a half hours.  And I explained to him,  and I really was just verbally processing

and he later relayed back to me, that what I explained to him was that I'd had something take place and it triggered the way I'd been treated by men.  And I finally was at a place where I could speak up.  And I was refusing to keep my mouth shut.

But I also needed someone else to acknowledge that I wasn't nuts that it really happened.  And it happened several times.  And just like I tell my kids, like when someone speaks up, that we have to believe them.  And this is why I can't sleep anymore.  It's why I've had insomnia since October.  And I'm waking up stressed.

And I'm not eating and I've lost 17 pounds from stress.  And finally he said he needed to take your working well off your phone.  When you come home, you are not allowed to work. When the kids are here, you have to be present.  If you're thinking about work, get a piece of paper and write it down.  If you wake up stress, write it down.  Like he really forced me to get a hold of myself because he saw that I was spiraling.  And I had made, he had made that promise that he was having my back, but I hadn't made that promise to myself.   And he called me on it.  And it hasn't been till recently that I've acknowledged that and done that.  And it's been a whole new world of just being able to be present with the girls in a way that I really haven't been for 10 and seven years.  I mean, being fully honest, my kids used to play Zoom.  They used to play, oh, they'd be playing and saying, excuse me, excuse me, excuse me, I have an email, excuse me, excuse me, I'm getting a phone.

They're modeling what they see me doing.  Being on vacations or canceling vacations because of work because that was the one place that I wasn't screwing up

and doing things right.  And I had any control of outcomes, but that really isn't healthy and not knowing how to deal with that also isn't healthy.  So, and then having some of the women in my life that have become recent moms or that I respect, that also we're saying Somiah, that you can't keep doing this.  And then coming over, picking up the girls or forcing me to go get a haircut or dying my hair in the basement, just little things of people that, to your point earlier about the community that you build, of those folks being able to call you on it when they need to and really those folks have saved my life. I can't really say that I can take credit other than maybe the last, you know, since early April that I have really been like,

I gotta get it together.  This isn't fair to me or to them.  

Tina:  Well, what I hear is that your self care, like all of our self care, means a little more nudging and attention.  Serena and I remind each other of self care all the time, right, taking, it doesn't have to be a spa day, it could be one deep breath in the middle of a day, in the middle of a day, which might be all one has time for, but you did say some good things, you know, really being present is part of what I heard

and that is super important, you know, being mindful. We had a guest on recently who talked about, not recently, but it's in the files listeners.  You know, like literally every night, I grab my dog's face and I breathe in and look into her eyes and do a deep exhale and she's the sweetest thing ever and that's my moment of mindfulness for the day.  And I love it.  So I think you've said some good things and we so appreciate and honor your story.  I so appreciate that you are in my life and I hope that you, I hope and I invite you to be kind to yourself because life is hard, sister, life is hard, right, life is hard.  And especially in academia, life is hard.  So be kind to yourself.  You are a rock star in lots of people's eyes and including this person right here.

Somiah:  So that means a lot.  You're a good woman.  I have so much respect for you.

Tina:  Thanks for coming on to our podcast.  

Somiah:  Thank you for having me.

Tina:  Yeah.  And so podcast friends, we are as always grateful  for all of you listening and supporting us.  You can help us out by visiting Apple Podcasts.  Leave us a review while you're there.  Please subscribe and share the podcast with others.

You'll find more content on our website,  www.noneedtoexplainpodcast.com.  You will also find us on all the socials and we would love to hear from you.  

Serena:  And this is your gentle reminder to take good care of yourself while you're also taking care of your people.

Tina:  Thanks so much for listening.

Serena:  Bye.